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DeezNutz
04-07-2009, 09:57 PM
http://www.ranyontheroyals.com/

Tuesday, April 7, 2009
Opening Day, And The Gloves Come Off.

And now I know why God, in His infinite wisdom, did not want me to attend Opening Day.
I am, as many of you know, a rather patient baseball fan. I am a rather forgiving baseball fan. I would not have survived as a Royals fan if I was not.

Last year, no one was the beneficiary of my patience and my forgiving nature than Trey Hillman. Whether it was his ridiculous dressing-down of his players on the field at the end of a meaningless spring-training game, or the way he talked up the importance of OBP all spring even as his players set an all-time franchise low in walks, I defended him well past the point of reason. I figured that anyone who had just taken the Nippon Ham Fighters, the Royals of Japanese baseball, to two Japan Series and one championship must have some idea what he is doing, and after years of watching managers who had no idea what they’re doing, I was prepared to give some leeway to a manager with an actual history of success on his resume.

The free pass is over.

The shame is that there are so many positives to take from this game. Gil Meche was brilliant once again, getting through seven innings in just 91 pitches, striking out six without a walk, and getting out of a bases-loaded, none-out jam in the second with just one run scoring. After Mike Jacobs turned a routine groundball into a double (excuse me…a “double”) in the fourth, Meche retired Carlos Quentin and Jim Thome to get out of the inning. David DeJesus showed off the improved outfield defense with his arm instead of his glove, killing two baserunners and taking at least one run off the board. Kevin Seitzer was in line for a game ball after both Jose Guillen and Mike Aviles walked (did those two ever walk in the same game last year?), both of them working their way back from a two-strike count against Mark Buehrle. Gordon homered. Teahen doubled and walked and didn’t kill anyone while playing second base.

If the Royals hadn’t held a lead going into the late innings, the story of the game might have been the team’s inability to hit with runners on base. The Royals stranded 11 men on base, and were 1-for-10 with runners in scoring position. But how a team hits in those situations over the span of one game is meaningless; what matters is that the Royals were getting guys into scoring position in the first place. And thanks to Meche, the Royals were in excellent position to win the game despite their futility with RISP.

Until the eighth. Until the inning that Hillman had just yesterday designated as Kyle Farnsworth’s inning, a decision that I suppose was inevitable in spite of, or perhaps precisely because of, the fact that it completely defies common sense.

Look for veteran Kyle Farnsworth to get the ball today in the eighth inning — instead of Juan Cruz or Ron Mahay — if the Royals are looking to bridge a lead to closer Joakim Soria.

“With the effectiveness that he’s shown (in spring training),” manager Trey Hillman said, “it would probably be Kyle. But those three guys can rotate between the seventh and eighth on any given day.

“One of those guys, probably Cruz or Mahay, could default to the sixth if we needed that.”

There wasn’t a Royals fan in the country who didn’t hold their breath when they read that passage on the eve of Opening Day.

Trey Hillman named Kyle Farnsworth his primary set-up man instead of Juan Cruz.


Kyle Farnsworth, he of the 4.48 ERA last year, and the 4.80 ERA the year before that, and the 4.36 ERA the year before that, over Juan Cruz, who had a 2.61 ERA last year, a 3.10 ERA the year before that, a 4.18 ERA the year before that.

Farnsworth, who surrendered 15 home runs in 60 innings last year (pitching for the Yankees and Tigers, two teams that play in pitcher’s parks) over Cruz, who surrendered 5 home runs in 52 innings last year (pitching for the Diamondbacks, who play in one of the game’s best hitter’s parks.)

There is no fathomable reason to think that Kyle Farnsworth is a better pitcher than Juan Cruz. None. And any reason that Hillman might proffer serves only to denigrate the intellect of the man proffering it. Before today’s game, I had been told that Hillman decided on Farnsworth in part because he pitched better during the final week of spring training. That excuse – and I hesitate to sully the fine name of the term “excuse” by associating it with Hillman’s thought process here – is both inexplicable and totally absurd. Which is to say, it makes as much sense as any other excuse that Hillman could have offered for his decision.

And it actually makes more sense than the other possible reason Hillman might have had: that Hillman arranged his bullpen hierarchy not based on performance, but based on salary. It’s a fact that Farnsworth was signed for more money than Cruz. It’s also completely meaningless, unless you’re using that information to evaluate Dayton Moore’s skills as a GM. If Hillman decided that he needed to justify the fact that one reliever is making $4.5 million a year and the other one is making $3 million a year – or if Moore is forcing Hillman to make that decision – as far as I’m concerned, that’s a fireable offense.

Juan Cruz has been the better reliever for at least three years. Dayton Moore signed him, at the cost of a draft pick, precisely because he was an upgrade on what the Royals had in terms of a bridge to Joakim Soria. How Hillman could have settled on Farnsworth to be his eighth-inning guy and decided that Cruz “could default to the sixth if we needed that” defies explanation.

Does Hillman even know that Farnsworth, whatever his assets are, is incredibly vulnerable to the home run? Does he know that U.S. Cellular Field is one of the best home run parks in baseball? Does he know anything?

It’s bad enough that Hillman brought Farnsworth in to protect a one-run lead in the bottom of the eighth inning. Worse still, he left him in. He left him in after Josh Fields led off with a bunt single. He left him in after Chris Getz singled with one out to put the tying run on third.

He probably felt pretty good about leaving Farnsworth in when Carlos Quentin struck out and kept Fields ninety feet away. That’s why the Royals spent $9 million on a pitcher that few other teams wanted at half that price: they wanted the guy who could get a strikeout when a strikeout was needed. Never mind that Farnsworth badly needed a strikeout because of a mess of his own making, or that Cruz has a better strikeout rate than Farnsworth.

So that brought Jim Thome to the plate. Jim Thome, who had hit 42 home runs against the Royals in his career, more than any other player in history (Rafael Palmeiro had hit 41.) Two men on, two out, one of the most feared left-handed hitters in the league at the plate.

Does Hillman bring in Juan Cruz at this point, because he’s, you know, a better pitcher? No, but fine, that ship has sailed.


Does he bring in Ron Mahay to get a key left-handed hitter out? In his career, Thome has hit .296/.431/.620 against RHP – against southpaws, those numbers drop to .240/.342/.442. He’s basically Barry Bonds against right-handers, and Casey Blake against left-handers. Mahay only needs to get one out before it’s Mexicutioner time. How about it? No.

Well, how about Soria himself? Didn’t we just hear Hillman talk about how he was going to use Soria to get four or five outs a lot more this year? What better time to use Soria in the eighth than on Opening Day, when he hasn’t thrown a pitch since Saturday? Keep in mind that Soria, much like his doppelganger Mariano Rivera, has a reverse platoon split – he’s been more effective against left-handed hitters (.167/.242/.255) than right-handed hitters (.188/.251/.264) in his career. If ever there was a time to call upon Soria in the eighth inning, it’s this situation, right? No.

No. We’d much rather break out the deer rifle to measure just how far Jim Thome can hit a fastball that’s thrown incredibly hard and incredibly straight.

Farnsworth threw the pitch, but he’s no higher than third on the list of people who should be blamed for this. It’s not his fault that Dayton Moore offered him $9 million to sign. It’s not his fault that Hillman brought him in to pitch the eighth inning when better options abounded, then left him out there even as his margin for error grew smaller and smaller.

The Rany of a year ago would have cut Hillman some slack for this. “He made a mistake,” he would have said, “but he’ll learn from this. Let’s see who he calls upon the next time the Royals have a one-run lead in the eighth. If Cruz gets the call, then chalk this up as an expensive but useful lesson for Hillman, that the guy with the ERA in the 2s is generally better than the guy with the ERA in the 4s.”

That Rany is gone. He’s fed up. He’s watched Trey Hillman make enough dumb decisions with his bullpen (like this one). He watched as Trey Hillman lost the clubhouse, the cardinal sin for any manager, last August before he was rescued by the team’s improbable 18-8 run in September. And he’s decided that whatever Hillman accomplished in Japan, it means absolutely nothing if he can’t perform third-grade math in his head, the kind of math that says the guy with the 2.61 ERA last year is better than the guy with the 4.48 ERA.

The worst part of all this is that we all saw it coming. Every last one of us knew from the moment they read Hillman’s words about keeping Farnsworth in the eighth-inning role that it would cost the Royals dearly at some point. We didn’t know it would be Opening Day, against one of our chief rivals, with the justice meted out by one of our greatest nemeses. But we knew it was coming. With the Royals, no bad decision ever goes unpunished.

Here’s a memo for you, Trey: Kyle Farnsworth is NOT NOT NOT a quality set-up man. Juan Cruz is.

Oh, and here’s another one: never underestimate the power of common sense.

If the reasons why Juan Cruz is better than Kyle Farnsworth can be understood by a six-year-old, then no amount of extenuating circumstances, like who looked better in a meaningless ballgame in March, ought to change that fact.

Maybe Hillman will learn from this immediately and anoint Cruz as his top set-up man, or maybe he’ll need to cough up a few more games first. What happened on Opening Day was the ultimate example of what behavioral psychologists call “negative feedback”, and you’d think that would be enough to learn. (Even lab rats know that if you shock them every time they press a lever, they should stop pressing the lever.) But Hillman shouldn’t have needed the negative feedback of a game-winning three-run homer to learn. If he’s not smart to figure out on his own that Juan Cruz is a better reliever than Kyle Farnsworth, he’s probably not smart enough to realize that if Decision A leads to Outcome B, the best way to avoid Outcome B again is to stop making Decision A.

Regardless of whether he learns or not, Hillman is getting no slack with me this year. He cost us this game, plain and simple. He cost us a two-game swing in the standings with a divisional rival. The odds that the outcome of this game – the outcome of Hillman’s decision – keeps the Royals out of the postseason are something like 1%. Think about that: it’s still Opening Day, and there’s a one-in-a-hundred shot that the Royals just blew the division.

What else is there to say? I’m tired of getting sarcastic emails on the Baseball Prospectus email list with subject lines that go “Trey Hillman, Supergenius” – emails from people who are not Royals fans, but are just so offended by dumb managerial decisions that they felt compelled to discuss what Hillman did with other non-Royals fans. I’m tired of getting trash-talking text messages from friends who root for the White Sox. I’m tired of losing games that should have been won, wasting performances that should have been celebrated, and starting the season with that pit in my stomach that says, “here we go again,” and it’s still Opening Day.

Most of all, I’m tired of watching the Royals shoot themselves in the foot. God knows we have enough of an uphill climb if we want to contend. We can’t control the size of our payroll or the size of our market, but dammit, we can control the quality of our decisions. We can’t outspend our opponents, but is it too much to ask that we outsmart them? Or at least that we don’t outdumb them?

Instead, Trey Hillman made arguably the worst decision made by any of the 30 major league managers in their first game, and it cost his team the game. Worse, that decision was pre-meditated.

Thank God there’s another game tomorrow, and a fresh chance for the Royals to prove that this year really is different. It’s also another chance for Trey Hillman to prove whether he really has the chops to be a manager in the major leagues. I’ll be watching, with jaded eyes.

wazu
04-07-2009, 10:03 PM
Epic column. This man is my new favorite Star columnist.

wazu
04-07-2009, 10:06 PM
Oh wait, this appears to be a personal blog of some kind, and not a real column. One less reason to subscribe to the Star.

DeezNutz
04-07-2009, 10:06 PM
Epic column. This man is my new favorite Star columnist.

Blogger, actually. Writes for Baseball Prospectus.

Day job = doctor.

Coach
04-07-2009, 10:07 PM
Epic.....

BCD
04-07-2009, 10:07 PM
Eh, its tough to win games when you only score 2 runs.

wazu
04-07-2009, 10:08 PM
Eh, its tough to win games when you only score 2 runs.

Yeah, even tougher when you only score 1.

DeezNutz
04-07-2009, 10:09 PM
Eh, its tough to win games when you only score 2 runs.

Agreed.

These things happen, though.

Unbelievable stupidity on the part of the manager, however, cannot.

Coach
04-07-2009, 10:11 PM
Eh, its tough to win games when you only score 2 runs.

But it's even more tougher to win games when the manager is making bone-headed decisions. Could throw in the General Manager into the mix as well. I wasn't too happy on the Farnsworth signing.

GoHuge
04-07-2009, 10:19 PM
Damn that was............AWESOME!! Said everything I am feeling right now. Who didn't think "oh shit" when he came in the game. Not his fault he was put in that situation, but everything that happened with that one pitch was a predictable outcome.

KC_Connection
04-07-2009, 10:19 PM
He should also unload on Moore for actually putting Hillman in any kind of a position to make Farnsworth his primary set-up man.

wazu
04-07-2009, 10:20 PM
But it's even more tougher to win games when the manager is making bone-headed decisions. Could throw in the General Manager into the mix as well. I wasn't too happy on the Farnsworth signing.

The signing was bad, the decision to put him in with a one-run lead on opening day late in the game was epicly bone-headed. Hillman has really shaken my confidence in his ability.

KCCHIEFS27
04-07-2009, 10:20 PM
Let's just hope Grienke can get over his bad luck against the White Sox and pitch a complete game. Or atleast get it to the 9th inning with less than 90 pitches.

Reaper16
04-07-2009, 10:20 PM
Flawless Victory

DeezNutz
04-07-2009, 10:20 PM
Very early, but just for shits and grins:

Will Hillman last the season?

Bowser
04-07-2009, 10:22 PM
Dropped a Daisy Cutter right on Hillman's head.

GoHuge
04-07-2009, 10:28 PM
Very early, but just for shits and grins:

Will Hillman last the season?He'll lose the clubhouse by the 15th if he keeps pulling shit like this. Imagine being a player on the team! They had to be thinking "now aint the time to be seeing what somebodies got." Cruz was thinking "give me the f**king ball dumbass." Meche was thinking "204 IP, 2.76 ERA......11 wins." Keep the awesomeness coming Trey.....

Sure-Oz
04-07-2009, 10:41 PM
Fucking owned Trey.....i mean wtf sign Cruz if he isn't going to be the setup man? Using him in the 6th?? are you fucking nuts?

wild1
04-07-2009, 10:42 PM
indefensible decision. however the signing of farnsworth was indefensible as well.

i guess royals fans can only hope that it doesn't take too many farnsworthian performances before they figure out that the guy sucks, and relegate him to the middle innings of something other than 1-run games. even if no one had been on, the home run to Thome is a very real danger given both their histories, and the game would still be tied then.

he's a nice guy and he's got good stuff but the formula for kyle farnsworth is 1/clutch

beavis
04-07-2009, 10:43 PM
Very early, but just for shits and grins:

Will Hillman last the season?

Yes. DM won't fire him.

I actually blame DM more than Hillman for this. Farnsworth should have never been signed in the first place.

Coach
04-07-2009, 10:43 PM
indefensible decision. however the signing of farnsworth was indefensible as well.

i guess royals fans can only hope that it doesn't take too many farnsworthian performances before they figure out that the guy sucks, and relegate him to the middle innings of something other than 1-run games.

he's a nice guy and he's got good stuff but the formula for kyle farnsworth is 1/clutch

Agreed. He shouldn't be doing clutch situations. He's at his best when you are either 5+ ahead or behind.

Deberg_1990
04-07-2009, 10:57 PM
Very early, but just for shits and grins:

Will Hillman last the season?

Just a guess, but if the Royals have another bad April and appear out of it before the end of May, hes gone.

Deberg_1990
04-07-2009, 10:58 PM
Yes. DM won't fire him.



Why wouldnt he fire him of the team is doing bad? I mean, who the hell is Trey Hillman????

Sure-Oz
04-07-2009, 11:00 PM
Who the hell is dayton moore for hiring a fucking nippon ham

Mecca
04-07-2009, 11:04 PM
Nothing annoys me more than realizing Adam Dunn signed for 1 million more.

Sure-Oz
04-07-2009, 11:05 PM
Nothing annoys me more than realizing Adam Dunn signed for 1 million more.
But he can't get on base and his nicknames the big donkey
Obviously Farnsturd was the better signing

Coach
04-07-2009, 11:06 PM
I think what also bothered me was that Meche was on a roll, and he was only on 91 pitches. I think he could have gone through another inning with much of a hiccup.....

Sure-Oz
04-07-2009, 11:06 PM
I think what also bothered me was that Meche was on a roll, and he was only on 91 pitches. I think he could have gone through another inning with much of a hiccup.....

Probably but it is the first game and that doesn't upset me so much

Deberg_1990
04-07-2009, 11:07 PM
Nothing annoys me more than realizing Adam Dunn signed for 1 million more.


Easy now, theres no place on this team for proven 40 HR hitters.

Coach
04-07-2009, 11:07 PM
But he can't get on base and his nicknames the big donkey
Obviously Farnsturd was the better signing

Dunn's OBP% in 8 career seasons is .381.

That's very good.

Sure-Oz
04-07-2009, 11:08 PM
Dunn's OBP% in 8 career seasons is .381.

That's very good.

He strikes out too much!1111111111 his ops is FTL

We signed Farnsy FML!

Sarcasm.com

Coach
04-07-2009, 11:08 PM
Easy now, theres no place on this team for proven 40 HR hitters.

Especially for a GM who has a raging hard-on for strong armed, but has no control, over a guy who can give you 40 HR's, and a OBP of .380.

Coach
04-07-2009, 11:10 PM
He strikes out too much!1111111111 his ops is FTL

We signed Farnsy FML!

Sarcasm.com

Heh. Even if he strike out too much, his K to BB ratio was a improvement from the previous year to last year.

2007 - 101 BB to 165 K's.
2008 - 122 BB to 164 K's.

Sure-Oz
04-07-2009, 11:11 PM
Heh. Even if he strike out too much, his K to BB ratio was a improvement from the previous year to last year.

2007 - 101 BB to 165 K's.
2008 - 122 BB to 164 K's.

I would've loved to see our pathetic HR record broken, too bad

ChiefsCountry
04-07-2009, 11:14 PM
I would've loved to see our pathetic HR record broken, too bad

Gordon is on pace for 162. :D

Sure-Oz
04-07-2009, 11:17 PM
Gordon is on pace for 162. :D

:evil:

Mecca
04-07-2009, 11:23 PM
I will never understand the people who freak out about his batting average or his k's, an out is an out. Fact is the guy is proven that he'll have a OPB in the high 300's and hit 40 HR's that is very valuable.

He hits HR's and gets on base.

jbwm89
04-07-2009, 11:27 PM
although the farnsworth inning was extremely disheartening, and looked a lot like the royals of 05-06, it is just the first game of the season. i dont think farnsworth is our setup man its gotta be cruz, but it is not so far of a stretch that farnsworth didnt deserve an inning. If he pitches the 8th next game ill be pissed....what i noticed is how good our plate approach was until we got risp. like guillen in the first inning horrible pitch to swing at 2-0. butler's at bat were piss poor as well for the most part.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 11:29 PM
How can a guy who looks like Billy Butler have no power?

alnorth
04-07-2009, 11:39 PM
Lesson of the day: although it IS true that a good manager really isnt worth all that much compared to an average manager, a BAD manager who lacks common sense is a serious liability.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 11:41 PM
Managing baseball is not hard...the fact that there are so many bad managers just speaks to how many real stupid people have jobs in baseball.

ChiefsCountry
04-07-2009, 11:42 PM
How can a guy who looks like Billy Butler have no power?

Like Tony Gwynn?

Mecca
04-07-2009, 11:43 PM
Like Tony Gwynn?

It's just ridiculous, I don't care what his batting average is, a singles hitter is basically a useless player to have unless he's going to steal 80 bases and play gold glove defense.

120lb Alexei Ramirez has power yet cheeseburger bob Billy Butler doesn't cmon.

DrRyan
04-07-2009, 11:45 PM
I will never understand the people who freak out about his batting average or his k's, an out is an out. Fact is the guy is proven that he'll have a OPB in the high 300's and hit 40 HR's that is very valuable.

He hits HR's and gets on base.

People "freak out" about his k's because and out is not always an out. A productive out, base running and defense are not in Dunn's skill set. At all. Obviously he is wanted for his ability to hit it 450 feet any AB, but there were many situations here in AZ last year that he failed when it matter, striking out opposed to putting it in play.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=dunnad01&year=2008&t=b#clutc (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=dunnad01&year=2008&t=b#clutc)

Obviously signing Farnsworthless to that kind of money was ridiculous, no other team would have thrown $9 million at him for two years. But, you are comparing apples to oranges with Dunn and Farnsworthless. Dunn cannot play 1B at all, AZ tried that several times last season. If you could put Dunn out there instead of Guillen that would be a good move, but you can't, unless you want to have one of two huge salaries on the bench at all times. You can't have both Dunn and Guillen in the OF if you want to field that ball well and cover any ground out there either. DH is a possibility, but do that and Billy Butler can't develop and there is plenty of talent there to be developed at the plate.

Reaper16
04-07-2009, 11:46 PM
Butler's power is going to come. He's capable of it.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 11:47 PM
People "freak out" about his k's because and out is not always an out. A productive out, base running and defense are not in Dunn's skill set. At all. Obviously he is wanted for his ability to hit it 450 feet any AB, but there were many situations here in AZ last year that he failed when it matter, striking out opposed to putting it in play.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=dunnad01&year=2008&t=b#clutc (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=dunnad01&year=2008&t=b#clutc)

Obviously signing Farnsworthless to that kind of money was ridiculous, no other team would have thrown $9 million at him for two years. But, you are comparing apples to oranges with Dunn and Farnsworthless. Dunn cannot play 1B at all, AZ tried that several times last season. If you could put Dunn out there instead of Guillen that would be a good move, but you can't, unless you want to have one of two huge salaries on the bench at all times. You can't have both Dunn and Guillen in the OF if you want to field that ball well and cover any ground out there either. DH is a possibility, but do that and Billy Butler can't develop and there is plenty of talent there to be developed at the plate.

I'd play him in left field everyday...I know people freak out that he doesn't do some things but you know what I'll take any guy on my team that hits 40 bombs and walks 100 times.

DrRyan
04-07-2009, 11:49 PM
I'd play him in left field everyday...I know people freak out that he doesn't do some things but you know what I'll take any guy on my team that hits 40 bombs and walks 100 times.

Then you 3/$36 million contact on the bench every day. Not good.

DeezNutz
04-07-2009, 11:50 PM
Remember that a lot of the concerns about Dunn were also based on the fact that most thought it would take between 15-18 per to sign the guy. And that type of contract, when talking about the Royals, is reason for pause.

If we knew it would be around Farnsworth money, it would have been a completely different discussion.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 11:50 PM
Then you 3/$36 million contact on the bench every day. Not good.

How? Guillen plays right field.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 11:51 PM
Remember that a lot of the concerns about Dunn were also based on the fact that most thought it would take between 15-18 per to sign the guy. And that type of contract, when talking about the Royals, is reason for pause.

If we knew it would be around Farnsworth money, it would have been a completely different discussion.

That's why you A, make the call and B, don't throw money at douchebags like Kyle Farnsworth.

DeezNutz
04-07-2009, 11:53 PM
That's why you A, make the call and B, don't throw money at douchebags like Kyle Farnsworth.

Dunn signed late. And I don't think anyone, probably even Moore himself, would dispute that he seriously misread the market when he signed Farnsworth.

This was easily the major fuck up of the offseason.

DrRyan
04-07-2009, 11:53 PM
I could not agree with the blogger's take any more though. Exactly what I and pretty much everyone was saying the opening day thread earlier today. Hillman lacks the ability to make simple decisions in a baseball game.

The one spring training game I was at this year against the M's, the Royals had a 7-2 lead in the 6th when the SP(Bale I belive, but not positive) started running into trouble. Walking batters, giving up hit after hit and yet Hillman does not get Cruz up in the 'pen until the score is 7-7. I understand ST games and getting your work/pitch count in, but even in ST it is still awful game managing.

DrRyan
04-07-2009, 11:54 PM
How? Guillen plays right field.

Missing the point. Are you comfortable with Crisp having to cover all of the ground between far left and far right field? You would have a gigantic liability in the OF on defense.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 11:55 PM
Dunn signed late. And I don't think anyone, probably even Moore himself, would dispute that he seriously misread the market when he signed Farnsworth.

This was easily the major fuck up of the offseason.

I wouldn't have signed Kyle Farnsworth to a league minimum contract it's widely known what he is. It's why I asked the question in the other thread. Do the Royals operate in some vacuum not realizing what this guys career history is? I don't think anyone on planet earth that isn't with the Royals organization would have pitched him today in that situation or given him that contract.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 11:56 PM
Missing the point. Are you comfortable with Crisp having to cover all of the ground between far left and far right field? You would have a gigantic liability in the OF on defense.

Sure, it's still not nearly the liability the infield is...

I'm sorry I'm tired of watching the team leader in HR's hit 20 or less.

DeezNutz
04-07-2009, 11:58 PM
I wouldn't have signed Kyle Farnsworth to a league minimum contract it's widely known what he is. It's why I asked the question in the other thread. Do the Royals operate in some vacuum not realizing what this guys career history is? I don't think anyone on planet earth that isn't with the Royals organization would have pitched him today in that situation or given him that contract.

The Farnsworth signing and the handling of this player should make anyone question the intelligence level of anyone of significance in the Royals organization.

Moore and Hillman should contact Curry for advice on how to handle the rest of the season.

DeezNutz
04-07-2009, 11:59 PM
Missing the point. Are you comfortable with Crisp having to cover all of the ground between far left and far right field? You would have a gigantic liability in the OF on defense.

Significantly less of a liability than what the brass is apparently comfortable with at 2B...

DrRyan
04-08-2009, 12:00 AM
Sure, it's still not nearly the liability the infield is...

I'm sorry I'm tired of watching the team leader in HR's hit 20 or less.

Could have, likely would have put Dunn in LF if you don't have Guillen under contract. Count on it, Dunn would not have cut down either of those two runners and could have led to a much different game with him in LF. I would gladly put Dunn in RF and DeJesus in LF, but what you would make up in HR you would still come out behind in defense starting Guillen and Dunn in the OF corners.

beavis
04-08-2009, 12:01 AM
Why wouldnt he fire him of the team is doing bad? I mean, who the hell is Trey Hillman????

I didn't say he shouldn't fire him, I just said he won't.

Mecca
04-08-2009, 12:01 AM
Significantly less of a liability than what the brass is apparently comfortable with at 2B...

I literally despise Mark Teahen, I wish the organization would finally acknowledge he sucks and quit trying to act like he's a cornerstone because he was in the Beltran trade.

wild1
04-08-2009, 12:01 AM
I will never understand the people who freak out about his batting average or his k's, an out is an out. Fact is the guy is proven that he'll have a OPB in the high 300's and hit 40 HR's that is very valuable.

He hits HR's and gets on base.

This is just a stupid statement. A strikeout does not do anything. Putting the ball in play does. A strikeout never advances a runner, it does not remove a force, it does not get an extra guy into scoring position, it does not give the fielder a chance to make an error. Hitting .236 with 100 strikeouts is a long ways clear of .236 with 200 strikeouts.

His OPS still would have been favorable to the lineup. His OBP would have been helpful in the Royals lineup. These would be reduced in KC because he would draw fewer walks and seen fewer quality pitches in a pathetic lineup in a league with stronger pitching and playing at Kauffman Stadium, rather than the most hitter friendly park there is, where he built all these 40 HR statistics.

I am not saying he would not have helped. But your arguments that hitting 40 home runs (in the closet they built to house baseball in Cincinnati) makes him god and covers all his other shortcomings are stupid. You should not be surprised when people reject them.

From the GM's perspective, they are locked in on Guillen already, they went and got a center fielder, and Dunn doesn't play that position anyway. They wouldn't put him in left field, because they already have someone in DeJesus who is as productive all around and Dunn is average to below average with the glove and the arm and will give back some of what he produces in the field.

So what you have with Dunn is a DH only in the AL, on a team that has someone pretty much entrenched at DH, whose upside could be higher in terms of total offensive productivity, and won't cost $10 million a year out of a $75 million or so budget.

And maybe the thesis is that no contending team found room for him on their roster and he ended up in Washington.

So yes, a cogent argument can be made against his fit on this team. A cogent argument could be made for it as well, but you are making neither.

tboss27
04-08-2009, 12:02 AM
I don't pay close attention to Royals until the season starts, i've never had reason to in my lifetime. Though I haven't had reason to pay attention to the Chiefs either so there goes that logic. Didn't know Farnswoth was even on the team. How many years does the guy have to suck before you realize that his 100 MPH fastball doesn't do a freaking bit of good when he can't locate it worth crap. I knew everyone expected us to be better this year - didn't realize there was actual talk of competing for the division on all the major sports networks. We definitely won't be competing for the division if this idiot is allowed to keep pitching in pressure situations.

Mecca
04-08-2009, 12:02 AM
Could have, likely would have if put Dunn in LF if you don't have Guillen under contract. Count on it, Dunn would not have cut down either of those two runners and could have led to a much different game with him in LF. I would gladly put Dunn in RF and DeJesus in LF, but what you would make up in HR you would still come out behind in defense starting Guillen and Dunn in the OF corners.

I bet they'd score more than 2 runs...and I also wouldn't have Mike Jacobs playing 1st...

I mean I think OF defense is overrated, infield defense is not and no team ever has an infield as bad as the Royals.

DeezNutz
04-08-2009, 12:02 AM
Could have, likely would have if put Dunn in LF if you don't have Guillen under contract. Count on it, Dunn would not have cut down either of those two runners and could have led to a much different game with him in LF. I would gladly put Dunn in RF and DeJesus in LF, but what you would make up in HR you would still come out behind in defense starting Guillen and Dunn in the OF corners.

Dunn and Guillen at the corners, with Teahen at 2B and Aviles at SS, would immediately qualify the Royals as the worst defensive team in ML history.

beavis
04-08-2009, 12:04 AM
It's just ridiculous, I don't care what his batting average is, a singles hitter is basically a useless player to have unless he's going to steal 80 bases and play gold glove defense.

120lb Alexei Ramirez has power yet cheeseburger bob Billy Butler doesn't cmon.

He slugged .561 in the minors. I wouldn't say he has no power.

Mecca
04-08-2009, 12:04 AM
This is just a stupid statement. A strikeout does not do anything. Putting the ball in play does. A strikeout never advances a runner, it does not remove a force, it does not get an extra guy into scoring position, it does not give the fielder a chance to make an error. Hitting .236 with 100 strikeouts is a long ways clear of .236 with 200 strikeouts.

His OPS still would have been favorable to the lineup. His OBP would have been helpful in the Royals lineup. These would be reduced in KC because he would draw fewer walks and seen fewer quality pitches in a pathetic lineup in a league with stronger pitching and playing at Kauffman Stadium, rather than the most hitter friendly park there is, where he built all these 40 HR statistics.

I am not saying he would not have helped. But your arguments that hitting 40 home runs (in the closet they built to house baseball in Cincinnati) makes him god and covers all his other shortcomings are stupid. You should not be surprised when people reject them.

From the GM's perspective, they are locked in on Guillen already, they went and got a center fielder, and Dunn doesn't play that position anyway. They wouldn't put him in left field, because they already have someone in DeJesus who is as productive all around and Dunn is average to below average with the glove and the arm and will give back some of what he produces in the field.

So what you have with Dunn is a DH only in the AL, on a team that has someone pretty much entrenched at DH, whose upside could be higher in terms of total offensive productivity, and won't cost $10 million out of a $75 million or so budget.

So yes, a cogent argument can be made against his fit on this team. A cogent argument could be made for it as well, but you are making neither.

And that's why our team never scores runs or has any power because we'd rather start David DeJesus and Coco Crisp in the same outfield.

And if you think Dunn just hits HR's due to the stadium he was in, I laugh at you that guy hits moon balls.

beavis
04-08-2009, 12:05 AM
I mean I think OF defense is overrated, infield defense is not and no team ever has an infield as bad as the Royals.

Esteban German agrees with you.

Mecca
04-08-2009, 12:05 AM
Dunn and Guillen at the corners, with Teahen at 2B and Aviles at SS, would immediately qualify the Royals as the worst defensive team in ML history.

Well see I wouldn't have done that...getting Dunn doesn't mean you put a bunch of dipshits all over the infield.

DeezNutz
04-08-2009, 12:06 AM
I literally despise Mark Teahen, I wish the organization would finally acknowledge he sucks and quit trying to act like he's a cornerstone because he was in the Beltran trade.

I want to see how his performance in Spring Training translates.

I just find it so hard to believe that a player can be as good as he was for a prolonged period and '06 and never again get back to this level. It was too long to be a fluke--I think.

But I agree. The dude is frustrating as fuck, and I have very, very little patience with his typical American Legion level bat.

Mecca
04-08-2009, 12:06 AM
Esteban German agrees with you.

A corner outfielder is a offensive player....putting a 280 10 guy out there that is a good fielder is worse than having a shitty fielder that hits.

beavis
04-08-2009, 12:06 AM
I love how people are melting down over one loss. I guess they were really hanging on to that dream of a perfect season.

DeezNutz
04-08-2009, 12:07 AM
Well see I wouldn't have done that...getting Dunn doesn't mean you put a bunch of dipshits all over the infield.

But they couldn't move Guillen, even though they wanted to, so you're sort of stuck. And you know Teahen would still be in the lineup somewhere because, well, just because. And there sure as hell isn't an option outside of Aviles at SS, so...

DrRyan
04-08-2009, 12:08 AM
Dunn and Guillen at the corners, with Teahen at 2B and Aviles at SS, would immediately qualify the Royals as the worst defensive team in ML history.

Exactly what I have been getting at. Mecca seems not to understand the concept of defense.

I bet they'd score more than 2 runs...and I also wouldn't have Mike Jacobs playing 1st...

I mean I think OF defense is overrated, infield defense is not and no team ever has an infield as bad as the Royals.

I don't follow you on this one. Are you suggesting they would play Dunn at 1B? If so, look back to my first post and click on the link and go to his fielding stats. Breaks down fielding by position. He was awful at 1B when AZ tried him there last season.

Mecca
04-08-2009, 12:09 AM
I love how people are melting down over one loss. I guess they were really hanging on to that dream of a perfect season.

I'm not really melting down about that, I'm just tired of the team having a bunch of singles hitters and never really doing anything to fix that. Then having to hear things like "defense" as an excuse as the Royals are fielding probably the worst defensive infield ever assembled. No one in their right mind is going to think outfield defense is remotely as important as infield defense.

DeezNutz
04-08-2009, 12:09 AM
I love how people are melting down over one loss. I guess they were really hanging on to that dream of a perfect season.

I could care less about the loss to be honest. But I care a great deal about decisions that are shockingly stupid.

DrRyan
04-08-2009, 12:10 AM
I love how people are melting down over one loss. I guess they were really hanging on to that dream of a perfect season.

I don't see anyone melting down. Hillman's piss poor managing today(especially) and historically does warrant the conversation though.

Mecca
04-08-2009, 12:10 AM
Exactly what I have been getting at. Mecca seems not to understand the concept of defense.



I don't follow you on this one. Are you suggesting they would play Dunn at 1B? If so, look back to my first post and click on the link and go to his fielding stats. Breaks down fielding by position. He was awful at 1B when AZ tried him there last season.

He's no worse than Jacobs...or DH him.

wild1
04-08-2009, 12:10 AM
And that's why our team never scores runs or has any power because we'd rather start David DeJesus and Coco Crisp in the same outfield.

And if you think Dunn just hits HR's due to the stadium he was in, I laugh at you that guy hits moon balls.

And this mentality is what brought all that hardware to the Texas Rangers

DeezNutz
04-08-2009, 12:11 AM
He's no worse than Jacobs...or DH him.

But what about Butterball111 Our former first-round draft choice who is a 22/23-year-old mother****ing DH1111

****ing Royals.

beavis
04-08-2009, 12:11 AM
I'm not really melting down about that, I'm just tired of the team having a bunch of singles hitters and never really doing anything to fix that. Then having to hear things like "defense" as an excuse as the Royals are fielding probably the worst defensive infield ever assembled. No one in their right mind is going to think outfield defense is remotely as important as infield defense.

What would you suggest they do? They bought the only power hitter they could afford last year, and everyone wants to run him out of town.

beavis
04-08-2009, 12:11 AM
And this mentality is what brought all that hardware to the Texas Rangers

ROFL ROFL :clap:

DrRyan
04-08-2009, 12:12 AM
He's no worse than Jacobs...or DH him.

Yes, he is much worse than Jacobs, much worse.

Jacobs - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jacobmi02-field.shtml

Dunn - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dunnad01-field.shtml

DeezNutz
04-08-2009, 12:13 AM
What would you suggest they do? They bought the only power hitter they could afford last year, and everyone wants to run him out of town.

? The could have afforded Dunn.

Mecca
04-08-2009, 12:14 AM
? The could have afforded Dunn.

What did I tell you about people absolutely not wanting Dunn, I think we should stick with our nice guys who can't hit like Mark Teahen.

DeezNutz
04-08-2009, 12:16 AM
What did I tell you about people absolutely not wanting Dunn, I think we should stick with our nice guys who can't hit like Mark Teahen.

Let's just hope that Gordon realizes his potential and becomes the guy who was the collegiate and minor league player of the year, and not the fucking dipshit who chases breaking balls in the dirt.

If this happens, Gordon's hairy taint will cover a lot of this organization's fuck ups.

beavis
04-08-2009, 12:22 AM
? The could have afforded Dunn.

He wasn't a free agent last year.

Mecca
04-08-2009, 12:23 AM
He wasn't a free agent last year.

Kyle Farnsworth got 1 less million than Dunn, we couldn't have afforded him?

BWillie
04-08-2009, 12:47 AM
It's one game fellas....come on.

|Zach|
04-08-2009, 12:51 AM
People over evaluate the first game to the point of absurdity.

Reaper16
04-08-2009, 12:56 AM
People over evaluate the first game to the point of absurdity.
Yes.

beavis
04-08-2009, 01:08 AM
People over evaluate the first game to the point of absurdity.

This.

|Zach|
04-08-2009, 01:10 AM
Good on deadspin to have some fun mocking the sports message board retards who love their own hot air.

-----

The Yankees offseason maneuvers are a complete and total disaster. They might as well have taken $340 million and dumped it in the Harlem River for all the good it did them. What a disgrace.

C.C. Sabathia ($161M) gave up 6 runs in 4+ innings and Mark Teixeira ($180) put up a big fat 0-4 doughnut and the Yankees were eliminated by the Baltimore Orioles, 10-5, yesterday. Pathetic, really. All that talent and money .... wasted. Why did they ever leave Yankee Stadium?! Trade them all and let God sort it out, I say.

look, i realize its only the first game of the season, but most of you that say this i cant stand to hear. this is all you said last year the ENTIRE FIRST 2 MONTHS. every time we'd lose, oh its only one game, oh theres still 4 months left, oh its only the first half. look, you guys said this same BS garbage last year and we missed the playoffs.

1 GAME NOW, is the same as ONE GAME IN AUGUST. all games count as either 1 win or 1 loss, get it straight.

quit playing down losses just because its early, i mean the way you guys post its like a win in august counts for 2 or something. this is why i stay away from the boards during the season. all these posters bash people who react to losses if the season is only 2 months in, but these losses matter. and the only reason these posters do this is to psycologically relieve themselves of stress knowing the yankees are dropping games by rationalizing the losses as not a big deal in their norman bates brains.

YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME. A WIN IN APRIL IS THE SAME AS A WIN IN SEPTEMBER. THE GOAL IS TO WIN GAMES.

stop rationalizing losses.

Thank you, reasonable and anonymous message board poster! Hey Yogi ... it's over.

And they aren't the only ones. The Tigers best pitcher's arm fell off, St. Louis lost to the freakin' Pirates, I'm not even sure if Cleveland has a baseball team anymore, and the Red Sox and Devil Rays aren't even allowed to play games! The only bright spot on the planet is in Seattle, of all places, where it is now 1995 again. Baseball is ruined! Woe betide us all!

Oh, right ... 161 more games. Still ... EVERY GAME COUNTS!

http://deadspin.com/5201846/your-teams-season-is-already-over

Coach
04-08-2009, 04:14 AM
Good on deadspin to have some fun mocking the sports message board retards who love their own hot air.

-----

The Yankees offseason maneuvers are a complete and total disaster. They might as well have taken $340 million and dumped it in the Harlem River for all the good it did them. What a disgrace.

C.C. Sabathia ($161M) gave up 6 runs in 4+ innings and Mark Teixeira ($180) put up a big fat 0-4 doughnut and the Yankees were eliminated by the Baltimore Orioles, 10-5, yesterday. Pathetic, really. All that talent and money .... wasted. Why did they ever leave Yankee Stadium?! Trade them all and let God sort it out, I say.



Thank you, reasonable and anonymous message board poster! Hey Yogi ... it's over.

And they aren't the only ones. The Tigers best pitcher's arm fell off, St. Louis lost to the freakin' Pirates, I'm not even sure if Cleveland has a baseball team anymore, and the Red Sox and Devil Rays aren't even allowed to play games! The only bright spot on the planet is in Seattle, of all places, where it is now 1995 again. Baseball is ruined! Woe betide us all!

Oh, right ... 161 more games. Still ... EVERY GAME COUNTS!

http://deadspin.com/5201846/your-teams-season-is-already-over

This game could have easily been a W for the Royals, had the manager knew WTF he's doing.

BCD
04-08-2009, 05:10 AM
I'm not really melting down about that, I'm just tired of the team having a bunch of singles hitters and never really doing anything to fix that. Then having to hear things like "defense" as an excuse as the Royals are fielding probably the worst defensive infield ever assembled. No one in their right mind is going to think outfield defense is remotely as important as infield defense.I guess you never got the memo that the Royals cannot afford to spend like druken sailors. I'd LOVE to have a guy who can hit 40+ a year. They don't grow on trees, and for whatever reason, this organization is unable to groom one.

BCD
04-08-2009, 05:13 AM
People over evaluate the first game to the point of absurdity.No way!

BCD
04-08-2009, 05:23 AM
This game could have easily been a W for the Royals, had the manager knew WTF he's doing.
I'm not gonna defend anything Trey did or did not do. But, this line up needs to produce. Period. 2 runs is pathetic. They blew chances earlier in the game to score.

keg in kc
04-08-2009, 05:38 AM
It's fun going through this every spring. This town treats baseball like it's football, and every game like the playoffs are on the line. Up and down and up and down like a yo-yo, and then by June, whether the Royals are out of it or not, everybody is so burned out that they quit paying attention.

acesn8s
04-08-2009, 05:45 AM
It's fun going through this every spring. This town treats baseball like it's football, and every game like the playoffs are on the line. Up and down and up and down like a yo-yo, and then by June, whether the Royals are out of it or not, everybody is so burned out that they quit paying attention.Correction. Chiefs begin training camp in late July and everybody quits paying attention.

keg in kc
04-08-2009, 05:49 AM
People quit paying attention long before the Chiefs get going.

Winning would help, of course. But still.

Sure-Oz
04-08-2009, 06:57 AM
Alot of emotions during the 1st game of the season, i expect the same for opening day at the K.

Regardless Trey shouldn't have put farnsworth in, it was pretty ridiculous. the radio guys were saying after the game, that games like this could cost us down the road. for ex: if the royals were out 1 game or something from a div. title etc, games like these would be huge that should've been won. If you go with your best hand atleast you can say they got you and you made the right move, this wasn't the right move. Farnsworth has an era career above 4 point i believe and loves to give up the HR ball.

WilliamTheIrish
04-08-2009, 07:05 AM
That was beautiful.

ChiTown
04-08-2009, 07:48 AM
I can't say it any better than Rany, but I think this sums it up for me:

"Most of all, I’m tired of watching the Royals shoot themselves in the foot. God knows we have enough of an uphill climb if we want to contend. We can’t control the size of our payroll or the size of our market, but dammit, we can control the quality of our decisions. We can’t outspend our opponents, but is it too much to ask that we outsmart them? Or at least that we don’t outdumb them?"

It's hard enough to be a Royals fan, knowing that we won't have the best players on the field. It's becoming increasingly difficult for me, knowing we have one of the worst Managers leading this group of Mediocre talent. That, to me, is a recipe for disaster.

Nzoner
04-08-2009, 07:55 AM
I'm not gonna defend anything Trey did or did not do. But, this line up needs to produce. Period. 2 runs is pathetic. They blew chances earlier in the game to score.

Absolutely agree,however,that does not excuse Hillman for his dumbassery.After 4 innings when KC had left 7 men on I was thinking,"oh hell here we go again" but after Hillman's move I was thinking."oh shit!here we go again!"

ChiTown
04-08-2009, 07:58 AM
Footnote:

It's teams like the Tampa Bay Rays that give me hope. If they can find the right GM and right Manager, then I certainly believe, at some point, the Royals can as well. Someday...............

Coogs
04-08-2009, 08:02 AM
I have not read this thread, so I have no idea if this has already been discussed. But here it goes anyway...

Just because we have an 8th inning set-up pitcher doesn't necessitate you have to use an 8th inning set-up pitcher does it? If your starting pitcher is throwing a good ballgame, as was the case yesterday, IMO you should leave that pitcher in the game. Maybe even go the whole 9 innings. At worst get to your real closer.

Now if your starting pitcher has you in the lead after 7 innings, but the score is something like 6-4, and he has obviously not been totally on his game giving up 4 runs in 7 innings, then yes, you may want to go with the... we have an 8th inning set-up pitcher philosophy.

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-08-2009, 08:32 AM
Lord knows I've defended the Royals too many times to count and while I am still very hopeful that the turn around will continue in a bigger, bolder way this season I too have to join the ranks of the WTF! screamers regarding Farnsworthless even being part of this team... let alone for $9 million this season.

I like a lot of what Dayton Moore has done... and I tried to look past what the Farnsworth signing seemed like when we did it, hoping they knew better than everyone else in the free world and he would pitch like he used to be able to.. when he could pitch... and it's just one game, he could still turn it around and be productive... but we've all seen yesterdays scenario play out too many times to really believe that. I was nervous as we kept stranding runners all day that 2 runs weren't going to be enough... Meche didn't have enough room for error as usual and the bullpen didn't have my confidence... especially if Farnsworth was called upon. When he came in I actually sent a text to a friend that said "here comes Farnsworthless to ruin Meche's gem" and what... about 5 batters later... I was thoroughly disgusted and still am.

I blame Dayton for the signing... I blame Hillman for the decision to bring him in in a one run game with power coming up when Mahay and Cruz were in the bullpen... I blame the baseball Gods for ruining another perfectly good outing by one of our starting pitchers...

I don't let myself get mad at sports anymore. I left that behind a long time ago. But when Thome cleared the fence I was mad and I still am. I'm so tired of this shit every year.

Luckily there are 161 games left for me to stop over reacting. I hope to God I don't feel the need to again.

Nzoner
04-08-2009, 08:46 AM
Luckily there are 161 games left for me to stop over reacting. I hope to God I don't feel the need to again.

I'm not big on 'bet the farm bets' but if Vegas was laying odds on this I'd be all in.

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-08-2009, 08:48 AM
I'm not big on 'bet the farm bets' but if Vegas was laying odds on this I'd be all in.

On the Royals blowing it more... or on me over-reacting?

LOL

gblowfish
04-08-2009, 08:51 AM
Every time Thome comes up this season...

And I mean EVERY TIME....

You stick one in his ear.

DeezNutz
04-08-2009, 09:02 AM
Every time Thome comes up this season...

And I mean EVERY TIME....

You stick one in his ear.

Damn. He and A.J. Pusszoosky?

Nzoner
04-08-2009, 09:07 AM
On the Royals blowing it more... or on me over-reacting?

LOL

this

Chief Chief
04-08-2009, 09:24 AM
Rany should have targeted his attack on the Royals' lack of RISP hitting which occurred in at least 5 innings against a pitcher that lacked control, rather than shredding the manager's choice of pitcher going against and failing to still the heart of the Sox line-up.

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-08-2009, 09:27 AM
Rany should have targeted his attack on the Royals' lack of RISP hitting which occurred in at least 5 innings against a pitcher that lacked control, rather than shredding the manager's choice of pitcher going against and failing to still the heart of the Sox line-up.

I was gonna bitch about that too but I'd done enough... heh.

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-08-2009, 09:29 AM
this

Good bets..

:)

DrRyan
04-08-2009, 09:50 AM
Footnote:

It's teams like the Tampa Bay Rays that give me hope. If they can find the right GM and right Manager, then I certainly believe, at some point, the Royals can as well. Someday...............

IMO the Marlins do it better than anyone. Pick almost any one of their stud players over the years and they got them in return for one of their other stud players in a trade. They get phenomenal return when it comes time to deal them to a bigger market team. That small market team actually gets to the post season and when they have in the past, they bring home titles to show for it.

gblowfish
04-08-2009, 09:53 AM
Damn. He and A.J. Pusszoosky?

Bounce one off Thome's ass.
Just don't run like a pussy after you do it...
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Et2_gIq2vWM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Et2_gIq2vWM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

DeezNutz
04-08-2009, 09:55 AM
Bounce one off Thome's ass.
Just don't run like a pussy after you do it...

Was this real? A movie?

If the former, ROFL.

thurman merman
04-08-2009, 11:38 AM
phenomenal article.

by the way, i've been seeing a lot of stuff from this "Rany" fellow. who is he? what kind of name is "Rany"? how do you pronounce "Rany"? rainy? is "Rany" short for something? etc.

ChiTown
04-08-2009, 11:41 AM
phenomenal article.

by the way, i've been seeing a lot of stuff from this "Rany" fellow. who is he? what kind of name is "Rany"? how do you pronounce "Rany"? rainy? is "Rany" short for something? etc.

Here you go...and yes, like rainy

http://www.ranyontheroyals.com/

thurman merman
04-08-2009, 11:46 AM
Here you go...and yes, like rainy

http://www.ranyontheroyals.com/

what kind of name is rany? absurd.

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-08-2009, 12:02 PM
what kind of name is rany? absurd.

says thurman merman....



:D

thurman merman
04-08-2009, 12:03 PM
says thurman merman....



:D

thurman merman is not my real name.

even so, it is a much better name than "rany."

Demonpenz
04-08-2009, 12:09 PM
People over evaluate the first game to the point of absurdity.

I would agree if it wasn't for the fact it was a microcosim of the stupidity lack of understanding stats, that our manager does all the freaking time. You have to have a balance of stats and gut feeling as a manager, and if his gut was feeling was farnsworth was going to work through that, well he has an ulcer

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-08-2009, 12:12 PM
thurman merman is not my real name.

even so, it is a much better name than "rany."

A. I know
B. No it isn't
C. playin dude

Demonpenz
04-08-2009, 12:12 PM
that said it just one game.

Chocolate Hog
04-08-2009, 12:17 PM
Woohooo Dayton Moore. Aren't the Royals going to win the divison now that Dayton Moore is there GM?

Demonpenz
04-08-2009, 12:19 PM
Woohooo Dayton Moore. Aren't the Royals going to win the divison now that Dayton Moore is there GM?

Billay!

tomahawk kid
04-08-2009, 12:20 PM
that said it just one game.

It was. The thing that bothered me is that his management decisions yesterday were just absurd and (based on the comments in the paper) it doesn't appear he learned a damn thing from it. Mahay isn't a "leftie specialist"? Are you f#cking kidding me?

My worst fear (that looks to be not that far from reality) is that Hillman is a younger version of Tony Muser.

No feel for a game, refuses to admit mistakes or adjust and then appears to have ZERO self awareness (the comment in the JoPo piece in which Hillman is surprised Posnanski wanted to talk about the game is telling - and not in a good way).

I can guarantee we'll see that Farnsworth decision duplicate itself 3-4 times before the All Star break.

I hope I'm wrong.......

DeezNutz
04-08-2009, 12:25 PM
It was. The thing that bothered me is that his management decisions yesterday were just absurd and (based on the comments in the paper) it doesn't appear he learned a damn thing from it. Mahay isn't a "leftie specialist"? Are you f#cking kidding me?

My worst fear (that looks to be not that far from reality) is that Hillman is a younger version of Tony Muser.

No feel for a game, refuses to admit mistakes or adjust and then appears to have ZERO self awareness (the comment in the JoPo piece in which Hillman is surprised Posnanski wanted to talk about the game is telling - and not in a good way).

I can guarantee we'll see that Farnsworth decision duplicate itself 3-4 times before the All Star break.

I hope I'm wrong.......

Hillman is in a no-win situation, to a degree. If he goes back to Farnsworth, he's a stubborn dumbass. If he shelves Farnworth in the 8th to turn to Cruz, Mahay, Hillman is a just a fucking dumbass who didn't have a clue initially.

Should I bunt Billy Butler? Should I not bunt Billy Butler? Today let's bunt. Tomorrow, let's swing away.

I don't see a consistent philosophy at this point. I'm hopeful that John Gibbons, a more seasoned ML manager, might be able to help improve with this until he takes over full time on July 27th.

Demonpenz
04-08-2009, 12:25 PM
It was. The thing that bothered me is that his management decisions yesterday were just absurd and (based on the comments in the paper) it doesn't appear he learned a damn thing from it. Mahay isn't a "leftie specialist"? Are you f#cking kidding me?

My worst fear (that looks to be not that far from reality) is that Hillman is a younger version of Tony Muser.

No feel for a game, refuses to admit mistakes or adjust and then appears to have ZERO self awareness (the comment in the JoPo piece in which Hillman is surprised Posnanski wanted to talk about the game is telling - and not in a good way).

I can guarantee we'll see that Farnsworth decision duplicate itself 3-4 times before the All Star break.

I hope I'm wrong.......


Farnsworth will get some "luck" holds and everyone will think it is aok then blow a big time game

Chocolate Hog
04-08-2009, 12:27 PM
How much are they paying Farmsworth? Isn't it something like 8 mil?

tomahawk kid
04-08-2009, 12:31 PM
Hillman is in a no-win situation, to a degree. If he goes back to Farnsworth, he's a stubborn dumbass. If he shelves Farnworth in the 8th to turn to Cruz, Mahay, Hillman is a just a ****ing dumbass who didn't have a clue initially.

Should I bunt Billy Butler? Should I not bunt Billy Butler? Today let's bunt. Tomorrow, let's swing away.

I don't see a consistent philosophy at this point. I'm hopeful that John Gibbons, a more seasoned ML manager, might be able to help improve with this until he takes over full time on July 27th.

I agreed with you to an extent.

My issue is that everyone and their dog could see that Farnsworth was spooked with 2 on, 2 out.

Instead of bringing in Mahay, Cruz or (gasp) even Soria - he left a right handed fastball pitcher in there to face a future HOFer who eats RH fastball pitchers for breakfast. All the while clinging to a 1 run lead.....

That means either -

1. Hillman was unaware of Thome's affinity to owning said pitchers of said ilk.
2. Hillman had complete faith in Farnsworth even though the guy has proven on a consistent basis that he WILL screw the pootch when given the opportunity.

Neither one of these options raises my confidence in Father Hillman.

DeezNutz
04-08-2009, 12:34 PM
That means either -

1. Hillman was unaware of Thome's affinity to owning said pitchers of said ilk.
2. Hillman had complete faith in Farnsworth even though the guy has proven on a consistent basis that he WILL screw the pootch when given the opportunity.

Neither one of these options raises my confidence in Father Hillman.

I don't disagree with any of this.

I'm all for giving Hillman time to improve, but this is further evidence to the larger argument that he isn't qualified for the gig. Other posters have been claiming this for a long time. I haven't, but I'm not turning a blind eye to the obvious, either.

It seems like a lot find themselves in this category.

tomahawk kid
04-08-2009, 12:37 PM
I don't disagree with any of this.

I'm all for giving Hillman time to improve, but this is further evidence to the larger argument that he isn't qualified for the gig. Other posters have been claiming this for a long time. I haven't, but I'm not turning a blind eye to the obvious, either.

It seems like a lot find themselves in this category.

I really wanted to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but yesterday's debacle really took alot of the wind out of my sails.......

Sure-Oz
04-08-2009, 12:38 PM
Tony Muser FTW

DrRyan
04-08-2009, 12:47 PM
How much are they paying Farmsworth? Isn't it something like 8 mil?

I believe when I looked it up on ESPN yesterday it said, 2 years $9.25 million.

Deberg_1990
04-08-2009, 01:20 PM
My worst fear (that looks to be not that far from reality) is that Hillman is a younger version of Tony Muser.



Maybe he can at least make it up to Bob Boone level?

Deberg_1990
04-08-2009, 01:29 PM
Meche has got to be thinking to himself: "WTF??? If i was on the Yankees or Red Sox, id be a multiple 20 game winner"

Sure-Oz
04-08-2009, 01:36 PM
Meche also love 55 mill hehe

Mecca
04-08-2009, 02:52 PM
I guess you never got the memo that the Royals cannot afford to spend like druken sailors. I'd LOVE to have a guy who can hit 40+ a year. They don't grow on trees, and for whatever reason, this organization is unable to groom one.

Adam Dunn signed for 1 more million than Kyle Farnsworth was given, think about that.

Deberg_1990
04-08-2009, 03:04 PM
Adam Dunn signed for 1 more million than Kyle Farnsworth was given, think about that.


heh, actually 40 HR guys are alot more prevelant these days than they have ever been.

The Royals still like to pretend its small ball 1977. I have no idea why??

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-08-2009, 03:04 PM
Meche has got to be thinking to himself: "WTF??? If i was on the Yankees or Red Sox, id be a multiple 20 game winner"

It's games like yesterday that make guys like Gil Meche not re-sign when their contract is up imo. You pitch your heart out and then management and the sultan of suckage blow your entire effort. Yea... he's making millions so he has that to keep him warm. Yea... it's just one game... it's just the kind of thing that would stick in your craw though it would seem to me when it's time for the next contract and the Orioles, Marlins and Padres are all offering similar money.

Mecca
04-08-2009, 03:06 PM
heh, actually 40 HR guys are alot more prevelant these days than they have ever been.

The Royals still like to pretend its small ball 1977. I have no idea why??

Because they're dumb...the same reason people act like guys like Coco Crisp and David DeJesus are more valuable than guys who have power.

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-08-2009, 03:07 PM
heh, actually 40 HR guys are alot more prevelant these days than they have ever been.

The Royals still like to pretend its small ball 1977. I have no idea why??

Well.... (here I go defending again)... that's why they signed a guy like Mike Jacobs (32 homers last year), and stick with guys like Billy Butler, Alex Gordon and Jose Guillen even through tough times. They have decent power on this team this year. The players just have to go out and execute now.

Demonpenz
04-08-2009, 03:08 PM
heh, actually 40 HR guys are alot more prevelant these days than they have ever been.

The Royals still like to pretend its small ball 1977. I have no idea why??

2 people last year hit 40 hr Ryan Howard, Philadelphia: 48

2. Adam Dunn, Arizona: 40

OmahaChief
04-08-2009, 03:14 PM
Meche has got to be thinking to himself: "WTF??? If i was on the Yankees or Red Sox, id be a multiple 20 game winner"

I am not so sure that Meche would be as good a pitcher on those teams. He would get more run support for sure but he seems to be doing better in a small market with little expectations.

|Zach|
04-09-2009, 03:01 PM
Don't worry Chicken Littles I am sure we will lose every other game from here on out because of the way this first game went.

Props to the Royals for taking the series.

bluehawkdoc
04-09-2009, 03:33 PM
I know it's early but we have gotten 20 shutout innings out of our 1 through 3 starters with only 13 hits allowed. Apart from the Farnsworth, we dominated this series from the mound.

Fish
04-09-2009, 03:47 PM
The stat that still has me worried..... 28 LOB over the last 3 games. We cannot keep that shit up.

Deberg_1990
04-09-2009, 04:05 PM
Don't worry Chicken Littles


Chicken littles huh? Come on Zach, fans have every right to be pessimistic with a franchise that hasnt been to the postseason in 25 years.

Demonpenz
04-09-2009, 04:59 PM
The stat that still has me worried..... 28 LOB over the last 3 games. We cannot keep that shit up.

no one across the league is tearing shit up in cold weather it will be ooooookkkk

SithCeNtZ
04-09-2009, 05:16 PM
I don't disagree with any of this.

I'm all for giving Hillman time to improve, but this is further evidence to the larger argument that he isn't qualified for the gig. Other posters have been claiming this for a long time. I haven't, but I'm not turning a blind eye to the obvious, either.

It seems like a lot find themselves in this category.

I tried to show you the light last year...good to see you finally coming around :evil: