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View Full Version : Chiefs I honestly think it's gonna be a bit difficult to trade down


RedThat
04-09-2009, 10:16 AM
The reason I say that is other teams that may want to trade up are going to have pay quite a bit to move up into the Chiefs draft slot.

in other words, I just think another team is going to have to give up too much value. And I recall Teicher mentioning that in one of his video blogs. That he doesn't think a trade down from the Chiefs will happen for those reasons. Im gonna have to agree with him there.

Im just thinking from a realistic standpoint of view. Although, I do want a trade down to happen? Only for purposes of accumulating more picks in the process, and I just strongly feel that in this draft there are no real players in the top 5 that just blow you away. I just think it's going to be very hard, unless there is a highly coveted player another team may want, and the deal makes sense then I can see a trade down happening. But, I just don't feel optimistic about it.

keg in kc
04-09-2009, 10:18 AM
A lot of us have been saying that for a while now. If we move down, it's not going to be a traditional 'value chart' kind of move, because the top of the draft is so weak.

I'd take less to move out of the top 5 and accrue more picks if at all possible, but that's just me.

King_Chief_Fan
04-09-2009, 10:19 AM
If we want to gamble, pick Sanchez with the 3rd. Trade him to the highest bidder if one available or trade Cassel for highest bidder if one available. If not, well, we are set at QB

Crush
04-09-2009, 10:22 AM
What are you talking about? This is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to draft Jesus Christ, himself.

Iowanian
04-09-2009, 10:24 AM
What are you talking about? This is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to draft Jesus Christ, himself.

Oh, Come on....he's pretty busy playing President of the United States right now, and he's rumored to be more interested in street hoops.

keg in kc
04-09-2009, 10:26 AM
Please, Arron Curry could give Obama Obama lessons. That's like middle school level awesome. Curry's post-doctoral brilliance.

Blindside58
04-09-2009, 10:27 AM
The reason I say that is other teams that may want to trade up are going to have pay quite a bit to move up into the Chiefs draft slot.

in other words, I just think another team is going to have to give up too much value. And I recall Teicher mentioning that in one of his video blogs. That he doesn't think a trade down from the Chiefs will happen for those reasons. Im gonna have to agree with him there.

Im just thinking from a realistic standpoint of view. Although, I do want a trade down to happen? Only for purposes of accumulating more picks in the process, and I just strongly feel that in this draft there are no real players in the top 5 that just blow you away. I just think it's going to be very hard, unless there is a highly coveted player another team may want, and the deal makes sense then I can see a trade down happening. But, I just don't feel optimistic about it.


In other words you could have saved your typing and just put "It takes two to tango."

eazyb81
04-09-2009, 10:28 AM
Way to go out on a limb there.

Mr. Krab
04-09-2009, 10:29 AM
What are you talking about? This is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to draft Jesus Christ, himself.
You mean Mark Sanchez?!!! He's so dreamy.

RedThat
04-09-2009, 10:30 AM
If we want to gamble, pick Sanchez with the 3rd. Trade him to the highest bidder if one available or trade Cassel for highest bidder if one available. If not, well, we are set at QB

We are set at QB. Matt Cassell is our 2nd round pick pretty much?

I just don't see the Chiefs trading Cassell, especially when they just gave up a 2nd rounder to get him? And that is quite a bit of value. I look at the roster I see Cassell and Thigpen, yup those are our quarterbacks pretty much going into the season.

I just can't see them drafting Sanchez either? I just don't see it as a realistic possibility. Simply because I believe Pioli has his mind set on Cassell. They are probably not going to draft a quarterback either? If they do, it'll be a depth move imo. Maybe one in like the 5th or 6th round. I just think the Chiefs are not going to have any other choice but to draft BPA to along with position of need at #3.

Brock
04-09-2009, 10:47 AM
If Stafford or Sanchez is there at 3, you draft them. There, wasn't that simple?

Duck Dog
04-09-2009, 10:51 AM
If Stafford or Sanchez is there at 3, you draft them. There, wasn't that simple?

No brainer, IMO. Either will easily replace Thigpen right away.

Pitt Gorilla
04-09-2009, 10:52 AM
If Stafford goes #1, somebody will want Sanchez at 3. We may not get full value, but we'd get something pretty close.

Detoxing
04-09-2009, 11:09 AM
No brainer, IMO. Either will easily replace Thigpen right away.

Yeah, cuz that's what we need right now, another Backup QB

Detoxing
04-09-2009, 11:11 AM
If Stafford goes #1, somebody will want Sanchez at 3. We may not get full value, but we'd get something pretty close.

I just dont want us to trade out of the Top ten. But, im all for picking up a second.

Fruit Ninja
04-09-2009, 11:11 AM
Naw, its not that difficult to trade down. Not with this mediocre draft class. Should be easy.

Brock
04-09-2009, 11:12 AM
Yeah, cuz that's what we need right now, another Backup QB

Short sighted thinking.

Detoxing
04-09-2009, 11:15 AM
Short sighted thinking.

No. We have much bigger needs right now. As much as most of you hate Thiggy, he's a serviceable back up. If Herm Edwards can get production out of thiggy, then i'm sure Haley will. Thiggy will be a better QB this season, and we have a D that needs help bad.

Brock
04-09-2009, 11:19 AM
No. We have much bigger needs right now. As much as most of you hate Thigpen, he's a serviceable back up. If Herm Edwards can get production out of Thigpen, then i'm sure Haley will. Thigpen will be a better QB this season, and we have a D that needs help bad.

Again, "needs right now" is short-sighted thinking. I don't care about Thigpen, he doesn't matter. Maybe you can trade him for something.

OnTheWarpath58
04-09-2009, 11:25 AM
We are set at QB. Matt Cassell is our 2nd round pick pretty much?

I just don't see the Chiefs trading Cassell, especially when they just gave up a 2nd rounder to get him? And that is quite a bit of value.

Like I said in another thread:

If I bought a house last month for $250,000, and someone called me and offered me $325,000 to sell by the end of this month, I'm packing my shit as fast as I can.

Yeah, we gave up a 2nd round pick to get him, but we'd very likely be getting a pick around #20 in the 1st round if we dealt him.

That's GAINING value.

OnTheWarpath58
04-09-2009, 11:27 AM
No. We have much bigger needs right now. As much as most of you hate Thiggy, he's a serviceable back up. If Herm Edwards can get production out of thiggy, then i'm sure Haley will. Thiggy will be a better QB this season, and we have a D that needs help bad.

Sorry, but you can't say that Thigpen is a serviceable backup until he proves he can play in a pro-style offense.

Herm Edwards may be a big enough dumbshit to change the entire offense midseason to accommodate one player, but I have complete faith that Todd Haley isn't.

OnTheWarpath58
04-09-2009, 11:28 AM
Again, "needs right now" is short-sighted thinking. I don't care about Thigpen, he doesn't matter. Maybe you can trade him for something.

It's typical around here, probably because of the way Carl Peterson drafted, and just a lack of common sense.

Scott Pioli isn't drafting players to help him go 8-8 in 2009.

He's drafting players to help him win a Super Bowl in 2012.

htismaqe
04-09-2009, 11:32 AM
We are set at QB.

In your opinion.

htismaqe
04-09-2009, 11:35 AM
I'd take less to move out of the top 5 and accrue more picks if at all possible, but that's just me.

This.

RustShack
04-09-2009, 11:36 AM
This topic has been hit on at the very minimum 100 times. This is a rare year, trading down and not getting top value is the right thing to do.

OnTheWarpath58
04-09-2009, 11:38 AM
In your opinion.

I can understand being optimistic and HOPING that Cassel works out, but to say that we are set at QB is mind-blowing.

2 QB's with a year of experience.

One of them surrounded by the greatest offensive talent of the past 10 years and the closest thing we've had to a dynasty this decade - along with the best HC in recent memory.

The other, needed to have the offense changed mid-season to accommodate his deficiencies, and still only won one game.

Cave Johnson
04-09-2009, 11:43 AM
Shut your mouth. We're going to parlay the #3 pick for 2 '09 1st, 2 '10 1st, a NT, and keep LJ and TG.

T-post Tom
04-09-2009, 11:45 AM
Like I said in another thread:

If I bought a house last month for $250,000, and someone called me and offered me $325,000 to sell by the end of this month, I'm packing my shit as fast as I can.

Yeah, we gave up a 2nd round pick to get him, but we'd very likely be getting a pick around #20 in the 1st round if we dealt him.

That's GAINING value.

True, but only if you make the right pick at #20. Do you think there will be a player at #20 who has a higher value than Cassel? Do you trust the Chiefs to draft that player? The draft is such a crapshoot. [But still exciting.]

With Peterson, I'd stick with the "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" philosophy. I'm not sure yet about Pioli. Right now I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt as he has the pedigree for success. As everyone knows, we won't be able to accurately grade this draft for quite a while.

Crush
04-09-2009, 11:47 AM
You mean Mark Sanchez?!!! He's so dreamy.


I'm sorry Mr. Krab's, but Sanchez cannot measure up to Jesus Christ Curry. Jesus is the complete total package.


Reaching 4:10 - It was then that Curry was persecuted for his Divine Connection. Do not believe the critics that say, "Yea, He is a solid player." You must remember that, yea, He is the Messiah of professional football and will forgive our sins as a 3-4 ILB.

beach tribe
04-09-2009, 11:50 AM
I think that Pioli will initiate a trade for less than value if it means it will be a significant benefit to the Chiefs. When you have a draft devoid of top tier talent at the top like this one, that draft chart is fuqin useless. Watch for it. And I don't want to hear you bitches cry if we don't get full value(according to the chart). If we pick up another late first, or a high 2nd to trade back a few spots, and grab a guy that's as good as the guys at the top it iS a WIN.

Watch for it. This is what I think will happen.

I see someone trading into our spot for Curry.

OnTheWarpath58
04-09-2009, 11:54 AM
True, but only if you make the right pick at #20. Do you think there will be a player at #20 who has a higher value than Cassel? Do you trust the Chiefs to draft that player? The draft is such a crapshoot. [But still exciting.]

IMO, that wouldn't be terribly difficult, as I don't see Cassel as an elite, franchise QB.

Personally, I think Pioli would probably trade down again from 20 and pick up a later first and another pick.

If we stayed, there are several players that would help us around #20:

Sintim
Oher
Heyward-Bey
English
Matthews
V. Davis
Laurinaitiis

OnTheWarpath58
04-09-2009, 11:54 AM
I think that Pioli will initiate a trade for less than value if it means it will be a significant benefit to the Chiefs. When you have a draft devoid of top tier talent at the top like this one, that draft chart is fuqin useless. Watch for it. And I don't want to hear you bitches cry if we don't get full value(according to the chart). If we pick up another late first, or a high 2nd to trade back a few spots, and grab a guy that's as good as the guys at the top it iS a WIN.

Watch for it. This is what I think will happen.

I see someone trading into our spot for Curry.

Works for me.

Dicky McElephant
04-09-2009, 11:56 AM
IMO, that wouldn't be terribly difficult, as I don't see Cassel as an elite, franchise QB.

Personally, I think Pioli would probably trade down again from 20 and pick up a later first and another pick.

If we stayed, there are several players that would help us around #20:

Sintim
Oher
Heyward-Bey
English
Matthews
V. Davis
Laurinaitiis

I would take Sanchez and 90% of those guys over Cassel.

OnTheWarpath58
04-09-2009, 11:58 AM
I would take Sanchez and 90% of those guys over Cassel.

Me too.

LaChapelle
04-09-2009, 12:01 PM
I thought the Chiefs were going to trade down to 5 and pick up Braylon Edwards :shrug:

htismaqe
04-09-2009, 12:02 PM
No. We have much bigger needs right now. As much as most of you hate Thigpen, he's a serviceable back up. If Herm Edwards can get production out of Thigpen, then i'm sure Haley will. Thigpen will be a better QB this season, and we have a D that needs help bad.

Haley has already said that they're not going to run a spread offense here. So it's highly likely that Herm Edwards DID get production out of Thigpen that Haley won't.

Detoxing
04-09-2009, 12:02 PM
I can understand being optimistic and HOPING that Cassel works out, but to say that we are set at QB is mind-blowing.

2 QB's with a year of experience.

One of them surrounded by the greatest offensive talent of the past 10 years and the closest thing we've had to a dynasty this decade - along with the best HC in recent memory.

The other, needed to have the offense changed mid-season to accommodate his deficiencies, and still only won one game.

It would probably be a good idea to find out what we have in our QB before investing the #3 overall pick in ANOTHER one. IF Cassel doesn't pan out, we can draft one next season.

Right now, we know what we have on the DL, LB and O-Line. We KNOW we need help there. We're not in a position to spend the #3 on a "just in case" player. We need a starter out of our 1st rnd pick.

htismaqe
04-09-2009, 12:03 PM
I can understand being optimistic and HOPING that Cassel works out, but to say that we are set at QB is mind-blowing.

2 QB's with a year of experience.

One of them surrounded by the greatest offensive talent of the past 10 years and the closest thing we've had to a dynasty this decade - along with the best HC in recent memory.

The other, needed to have the offense changed mid-season to accommodate his deficiencies, and still only won one game.

This is almost exactly how I feel about it.

I LOVE the trade for Cassel. I think Cassel has a TREMENDOUS amount of upside. I would at all be surprised if he's the starter for the next 5 or 6 years.

But to say with absolute conviction that he's the QB and there's no other possibility just seems short-sighted.

Brock
04-09-2009, 12:04 PM
It would probably be a good idea to find out what we have in our QB before investing the #3 overall pick in ANOTHER one. IF Cassel doesn't pan out, we can draft one next season.

It isn't a good idea to wait. Especially looking at next year's class of QBs.

beach tribe
04-09-2009, 12:04 PM
Haley has already said that they're not going to run a spread offense here. So it's highly likely that Herm Edwards DID get production out of Thigpen that Haley won't.

Probably. But with Gailey still the OC, he will put in packages for Thigpen if he's thrust into duty. Not saying that's what I want, just sayin.

beach tribe
04-09-2009, 12:05 PM
It isn't a good idea to wait. Especially looking at next year's class of QBs.

Don't we say this same thing every year, like last year, and the year before.......and the year before.

htismaqe
04-09-2009, 12:05 PM
It would probably be a good idea to find out what we have in our QB before investing the #3 overall pick in ANOTHER one. IF Cassel doesn't pan out, we can draft one next season.

No, we can't. The QB's likely to be available next year aren't anywhere NEAR the prospects that Sanchez and Stafford are.

Right now, we know what we have on the DL, LB and O-Line. We KNOW we need help there. We're not in a position to spend the #3 on a "just in case" player. We need a starter out of our 1st rnd pick.

We've already invested high draft picks in the DL and OL. None of those needs you listed justify burning the #3 overall pick because of a short-term need.

Detoxing
04-09-2009, 12:05 PM
Haley has already said that they're not going to run a spread offense here. So it's highly likely that Herm Edwards DID get production out of Thigpen that Haley won't.

Do you really think they won't have any spread packages? Cassel thrived in the spread and so did Thigpen. I'm sure there will be some packages that Thigpen can have success with in case Cassel goes down.

Brock
04-09-2009, 12:07 PM
Don't we say this same thing every year, like last year, and the year before.......and the year before.

compare Stafford and Sanchez to McCoy and Bradford. Not to mention that there's always the chance that the Chiefs won't be picking as high next year.

MahiMike
04-09-2009, 12:11 PM
Don't worry. Pioli already has picks waiting for his #3 pick. He's now working on how to turn those picks into EVEN MORE picks.

The Deal is Done!

Detoxing
04-09-2009, 12:12 PM
No, we can't. The QB's likely to be available next year aren't anywhere NEAR the prospects that Sanchez and Stafford are.



We've already invested high draft picks in the DL and OL. None of those needs you listed justify burning the #3 overall pick because of a short-term need.


I agree that OL shouldnt be taken at #3. But if they did, he would start. And just becasue we used high picks on the DL before doesn't mean they've panned out. We obviously still need help.

As far as the Qb's not being good next draft; that's what they say every goddamn year. Last year, everyone had questions about Matt Ryan and a lot of "experts" didn't think he was worth a top 5 selection. Flacco wasn't even suppose to go in hte 1st rnd. Same this year. Just one month ago people were going on and on about how poor this QB class is. Same shit will happen next year.

Look, im not saying that we should reach for an OL or DL player with the #3. I think if Sanchez is there, we try to trade down and get a 2nd. If we can't, then find a player who can be a fixture in one of the many KNOWN holes that are on the team. Let's give Matt Cassel a decent team before trying to find his replacement.

Amnorix
04-09-2009, 12:16 PM
I can understand being optimistic and HOPING that Cassel works out, but to say that we are set at QB is mind-blowing.

2 QB's with a year of experience.

One of them surrounded by the greatest offensive talent of the past 10 years and the closest thing we've had to a dynasty this decade - along with the best HC in recent memory.

The other, needed to have the offense changed mid-season to accommodate his deficiencies, and still only won one game.

You guys seriously think you're going to effectively spend your #1 and #2 picks on a QB?

Yeah....no.

ChiefsCountry
04-09-2009, 12:40 PM
The only way to trade down is if we have a QB at our pick. No other position will a team give up the farm for.

KCDC
04-09-2009, 12:52 PM
Unless Seattle sends out signs that it is willing to take Sanchez, we won't get SF, Denver or Washington to trade up for our pick. Instead, if they trade up they do so on the #8 pick.

We have two other possibilities, as I see it:

1. Cleveland wants Curry and will trade up two spots for a third rounder maybe.

2. The Eagles or Redskins want a "franchise LT" and trade up to get Monroe. It will be expensive, and they may prefer to wait to try and get Andre Smith or Oher.

htismaqe
04-09-2009, 01:02 PM
Do you really think they won't have any spread packages? Cassel thrived in the spread and so did Thigpen. I'm sure there will be some packages that Thigpen can have success with in case Cassel goes down.

We will have several 4-WR sets, I'm sure. That, however, is NOT the spread. What the Patriots did last year and what the Chiefs did wasn't similar in many ways at all. Once again, we'd be looking at changing the entire offense just to accomodate Thigpen.

Detoxing
04-09-2009, 01:04 PM
We will have several 4-WR sets, I'm sure. That, however, is NOT the spread. What the Patriots did last year and what the Chiefs did wasn't similar in many ways at all. Once again, we'd be looking at changing the entire offense just to accomodate Thigpen.

If your starting QB goes down, you gotta do what you gotta do to get by until he gets back

htismaqe
04-09-2009, 01:05 PM
I agree that OL shouldnt be taken at #3. But if they did, he would start.

At the expense of continuing to develop Brandon Albert. I HATE that idea, more than any other that's been presented.

And just becasue we used high picks on the DL before doesn't mean they've panned out. We obviously still need help.

Do we? We don't have a clue what we have due to the fact that coaching was so bad. At some point we have to get something out of these guys or move on.

As far as the Qb's not being good next draft; that's what they say every goddamn year. Last year, everyone had questions about Matt Ryan and a lot of "experts" didn't think he was worth a top 5 selection. Flacco wasn't even suppose to go in hte 1st rnd. Same this year. Just one month ago people were going on and on about how poor this QB class is. Same shit will happen next year.

Matt Ryan played in a pro-style offense. Sanchez and Stafford did. There isn't anybody right now that looks like a big-time prospect that doesn't play in the spread. That's a BIG problem.

Raised On Riots
04-09-2009, 01:05 PM
No brainer, IMO. Either will easily replace Thigpen right away.

And in the end, isn't that all that really matters?
(short answer; yes!)

Again, "needs right now" is short-sighted thinking. I don't care about Thigpen, he doesn't matter. Maybe you can trade him for something.

What exactly IS the market rate for a wannabe fan favorite these days?
Meh, a crate of Omaha Steaks for every Chiefs fan in existence works for me.

I'm sorry Mr. Krab's, but Sanchez cannot measure up to Jesus Christ Curry. Jesus is the complete total package.




Reaching 4:10 - It was then that Curry was persecuted for his Divine Connection. Do not believe the critics that say, "Yea, He is a solid player." You must remember that, yea, He is the Messiah of professional football and will forgive our sins as a 3-4 ILB.

ROFL Do not take the Lord Thy God Curry's name in vain, heathen!
Reptastic!

htismaqe
04-09-2009, 01:06 PM
If your starting QB goes down, you gotta do what you gotta do to get by until he gets back

Well, hopefully we'll have a REAL backup QB before the seasons starts. I don't have a problem with developing Thigpen. Developmental QB's are usually the #3.