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View Full Version : Education Somebody lock Biden in the bar again...


wild1
04-09-2009, 10:23 PM
Republican strategist Karl Rove called Vice President Biden a "liar" on Thursday, dramatically escalating a feud between Biden and aides to former President George W. Bush over Biden's claims to have rebuked Bush in private meetings.

"I hate to say this, but he's a serial exaggerator," Rove told FOX News. "If I was being unkind I would say liar. But it is a habit he ought to drop."

Rove added: "You should not exaggerate and lie like this when you are the Vice President of the United States."

Biden's office did not immediately respond to a request for comment, although Biden spokesman Jay Carney told Fox on Wednesday: "The vice president stands by his remarks."

Carney was referring to two controversial assertions by Biden, the latest coming Tuesday during an interview on CNN.

"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden began, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"

The exchange is purely "fictional," said Rove, who was Bush's top political adviser in the White House.

"It didn't happen," Rove, a FOX News contributor and former Bush adviser, told Megyn Kelly in an interview taped for "On The Record." "It's his imagination; it's a made-up, fictional world.

"He ought to get out of it and get back to reality," Rove added. "He's making this up out of whole cloth."

Rove's skepticism was echoed by a variety of other Bush aides, including former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer, chief of staff Andy Card and legislative liaison Candida Wolff.

They also disputed a similar assertion made by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues at a lunch that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.

"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"

On Thursday, Rove ridiculed the claim that Biden spent "a lot of hours alone with" Bush.

"Joe Biden was never alone with the president for more than few moments," Rove said. "There was staff in the room the whole time."

Rove was equally appalled by Biden's claims of having given Bush his comeuppance.

"If you notice, all of these incidents have the same structure: Joe Biden courageously raises the impudent question; the president befuddles the answer; and Joe Biden drives home the dramatic response."

Rove scoffed at Biden's claims that "he and the president were sitting there in the Oval Office, he was tutoring the president, he was asking him the critical questions that no one was willing to confront him with."

"With all due respect to the vice president, these are the kind of things you can get away with if you are a United States Senator, or a backbencher in the U.S. House of Representatives," Rove said. "You should not exaggerate and lie like this when you are the Vice President of the United States."

Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.

Throughout his career, Biden has often been accused of boasting about his accomplishments, embellishing his credentials and even stealing the words of others. He dropped out of the 1988 presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock.

Last July, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq. When questioned by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled by saying: "I was near where a shot landed."

Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.

"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."

In September, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."

"If you want to know where Al Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."

But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.

"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."

splatbass
04-09-2009, 11:05 PM
"If you want to know where Al Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."

But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008.

You realize that weather can force a helicopter down, right?

There are a number of these questionable things in the article. For instance, Biden said this:

"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said

Then Rove said this:

"Joe Biden was never alone with the president for more than few moments," Rove said. "There was staff in the room the whole time."

Notice that Rove didn't acknowledge that Biden had said there was staff in the room? Rove was LYING.

This is a very biased and misleading spin piece. Where did it come from? I notice you didn't provide a link. That raises suspicions right there.

orange
04-10-2009, 12:16 AM
This is a very biased and misleading spin piece. Where did it come from? I notice you didn't provide a link. That raises suspicions right there.


It came from here: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/04/09/rove-calls-biden-liar-bush-aides-challenge-vps-boasts/

Here's a hint: copy about ten lines of text with ctrl-c and paste it into a Google search box. You can find the original source of almost anything on the web. You will also note that the article has already been quoted (usually without attribution) on right-winger sites all over for further ranting.

Baby Lee
04-10-2009, 04:28 AM
[halfway home] Oh yeah!! The Jerk Store called and they've run out of YOU!!!! [/hh]

Iowanian
04-10-2009, 08:22 AM
Joe Biden likes Fish Sticks.

Chief Henry
04-10-2009, 08:27 AM
Joe Biden likes Fish Sticks.

Its not very thoughtful of you to make fun of FISH on "Good Friday".
That was borderline blasphemous.

Orange has a problem with Facts and how they're reported.

splatbass
04-10-2009, 08:52 AM
Its not very thoughtful of you to make fun of FISH on "Good Friday".
That was borderline blasphemous.


Overreact much?

orange
04-10-2009, 08:56 AM
Orange has a problem with Facts and how they're reported.

??? I said nothing about the article at all. I simply told splatboss how he can find the original source of an article.

If merely mentioning that it came from FoxNews is all it takes to discredit it, that tells alot more about FoxNews than it tells about me.

It also tells alot about you - that you put faith in a "news source" that you're embarassed to acknowledge.

Simplex3
04-10-2009, 09:09 AM
Biden and Rove are having a dick measuring contest. Someone break out the micrometer.

Cannibal
04-10-2009, 09:33 AM
Joe Biden likes Fish Sticks.

Chief Henry likes to put them in his mouth so that makes him a ghey fish.

Cannibal
04-10-2009, 09:34 AM
Biden and Rove are having a dick measuring contest. Someone break out the micrometer.

ROFL

I like Biden but admit that was a good one.

Taco John
04-10-2009, 09:38 AM
Who cares? It sounds totally plausible that Biden would say this, and it sound totally plausible that he would lie about it.

At the end of the day, why should anyone care?

stevieray
04-10-2009, 09:39 AM
"something big is gonna happen.."

penchief
04-10-2009, 09:44 AM
"something big is gonna happen.."

"We will be greeted as liberaters.."

KC Dan
04-10-2009, 09:46 AM
"We will be greeted as liberaters.."
"Change you can believe in..."

penchief
04-10-2009, 09:58 AM
"Change you can believe in..."

The insurgency is in it's last throes.."

Taco John
04-10-2009, 10:18 AM
"My daddy can beat up your daddy."

stevieray
04-10-2009, 10:42 AM
"We will be greeted as liberaters.."

"Women vote for first time in Iraqi Election, penchief deflects.. film at 11"

Cannibal
04-10-2009, 11:30 AM
"Women vote for first time in Iraqi Election, penchief deflects.. film at 11"

That's all fine and dandy. But was it really worth almost 5,000 American lives, 60,000 Iraqi lives and 600 billion American dollars (and counting)?

I know the vast majority of American think it wasn't and I bet the majority of Iraqi's (especially relatives of those who died) would agree with them.

stevieray
04-10-2009, 11:35 AM
That's all fine and dandy. But was it really worth almost 5,000 American lives, 60,000 Iraqi lives and 600 billion American dollars (and counting)?

I know the vast majority of American think it wasn't and I bet the majority of Iraqi's (especially relatives of those who died) would agree with them.

"as He died to make men Holy, let us die to make men free"

Cannibal
04-10-2009, 11:40 AM
"as He died to make men Holy, let us die to make men free"

http://www.parade.com/articles/editions/2005/edition_02-13-2005/featured_0

There are 10 more countries with dictatorial regimes we can spend our blood and treasure on I guess to support your noble notion of world freedom. I have to assume there are dozens more. What do you think it would cost for regime change and occupation in all of them, 10 trillion? How many American lives 50,000 or more?

stevieray
04-10-2009, 11:54 AM
http://www.parade.com/articles/editions/2005/edition_02-13-2005/featured_0

There are 10 more countries with dictatorial regimes we can spend our blood and treasure on I guess to support your noble notion of world freedom. I have to assume there are dozens more. What do you think it would cost for regime change and occupation in all of them, 10 trillion? How many American lives 50,000 or more?



"stop him! he's killed five people!"
"sorry sir. it not worth losing another officer over"

Simplex3
04-10-2009, 12:51 PM
That's all fine and dandy. But was it really worth almost 5,000 American lives, 60,000 Iraqi lives and 600 billion American dollars (and counting)?

I know the vast majority of American think it wasn't and I bet the majority of Iraqi's (especially relatives of those who died) would agree with them.

Have you spoken to a single Iraqi about this? Because the ones I've spoken to are grateful. Admittedly it isn't a large or diverse enough sample to be considered scientific, but to a person they are thankful.

I'd also venture to guess that the 50% of their population that is female feel pretty good about going to vote instead of going to be raped by some para-military police asshole and his buddies, then killed by their own family for shaming the family name. It's just a guess, though. Maybe they preferred that life.

(note that I'm not arguing that we should have gone into Iraq, but to claim the Iraqi people aren't glad to be free is absurd)

wild1
04-10-2009, 05:25 PM
Who cares? It sounds totally plausible that Biden would say this, and it sound totally plausible that he would lie about it.

At the end of the day, why should anyone care?

because he's a heartbeat away, and a pathological liar?

either that or he's so FOS even he doesn't know the truth about all the stuff he says...

mikey23545
04-10-2009, 05:38 PM
Jeez, what a mess we've gotten ourselves into...An affirmative-action Communist for president and a confirmed habitual liar for the vice...

Simplex3
04-10-2009, 06:09 PM
Jeez, what a mess we've gotten ourselves into...An affirmative-action Communist for president and a confirmed habitual liar for the vice...

Let's not forget the aging hippie who's 3rd in line.

ROYC75
04-10-2009, 06:48 PM
Biden is so bored with nothing to do, he has to entertain himself just feel wanted and needed.

SBK
04-10-2009, 10:33 PM
We have all been pwnt by the government. We're so blinded by our "side" that we can make the stupidest arguments against or for the most asinine of things that do not matter at all.

I'm just as guilty as everyone else who posts here. LMAO

StcChief
04-10-2009, 10:47 PM
Europe is catching up with the real America... BO is in over his head, he can tread water only so long..... sh1t he can't decide what to do with dumb a$$ pirates in a dead dingy.. keeping our warships at bay for $$$$/hr.????

wild1
04-11-2009, 09:27 AM
We have all been pwnt by the government. We're so blinded by our "side" that we can make the stupidest arguments against or for the most asinine of things that do not matter at all.

I'm just as guilty as everyone else who posts here. LMAO


meanwhile, Barack Obama is going to go down in history as the worst blind date we ever went on

VAChief
04-11-2009, 10:02 AM
meanwhile, Barack Obama is going to go down in history as the worst blind date we ever went on

I don't think you could have posted a response that would have been more ironic...Bravo!

VAChief
04-11-2009, 10:03 AM
We have all been pwnt by the government. We're so blinded by our "side" that we can make the stupidest arguments against or for the most asinine of things that do not matter at all.

I'm just as guilty as everyone else who posts here. LMAO

Refreshing honesty...something we (including myself) should practice more.

banyon
04-11-2009, 10:35 AM
"I hate to say this, but he's a serial exaggerator," Rove told FOX News. "If I was being unkind I would say liar. But it is a habit he ought to drop."

Rove added: "You should not exaggerate and lie like this when you are the Vice President of the United States."

:spock:

did he know who was VP for the last 8 years?

patteeu
04-11-2009, 11:39 AM
:spock:

did he know who was VP for the last 8 years?

Joe Biden couldn't wear Dick Cheney's gravitas-filled cowboy boots.

banyon
04-11-2009, 11:58 AM
Joe Biden couldn't wear Dick Cheney's gravitas-filled cowboy boots.

The loyal, the unwavering, the 1 % ers.

penchief
04-13-2009, 08:19 AM
Joe Biden couldn't wear Dick Cheney's gravitas-filled cowboy boots.

"President Reagan proved deficits don't matter."

patteeu
04-13-2009, 09:20 AM
"President Reagan proved deficits don't matter."

Link?

splatbass
04-13-2009, 07:19 PM
Link?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/09/60minutes/main592330.shtml

“Cheney, at this moment, shows his hand,” says Suskind. “He says, ‘You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.’ … O'Neill is speechless.”

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2009/03/27/deficits/

Dick Cheney once observed that "deficits don't matter,"

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/01/26/040126ta_talk_cassidy

The Vice-President stopped him. “Reagan proved deficits don’t matter,” he said.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june04/loyalty_01-15.html

And Dick Cheney says to O'Neill, "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter.

Even The American Spectator:

http://spectator.org/archives/2004/03/30/deficits-dont-matter

I thought this had been resolved and agree with Vice President Cheney, who reportedly told Paul O'Neill, "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter."

Is that enough, because there are more.....

patteeu
04-13-2009, 07:42 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/09/60minutes/main592330.shtml

“Cheney, at this moment, shows his hand,” says Suskind. “He says, ‘You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.’ … O'Neill is speechless.”

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2009/03/27/deficits/

Dick Cheney once observed that "deficits don't matter,"

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/01/26/040126ta_talk_cassidy

The Vice-President stopped him. “Reagan proved deficits don’t matter,” he said.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june04/loyalty_01-15.html

And Dick Cheney says to O'Neill, "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter.

Even The American Spectator:

http://spectator.org/archives/2004/03/30/deficits-dont-matter

I thought this had been resolved and agree with Vice President Cheney, who reportedly told Paul O'Neill, "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter."

Is that enough, because there are more.....

All third hand accounts based on the uncorroborated second hand story of a disgruntled former administration official who had a book to sell? Do you have anything less suspect? Or is this single source with lots of echoes all you've got?

And even if he did say it, do you have anything that provides the full context of the discussion or do I have to buy O'Neill's book to get that?

alanm
04-13-2009, 07:51 PM
Jeez, what a mess we've gotten ourselves into...An affirmative-action Communist for president and a confirmed habitual liar for the vice...Don't forget the tax cheats in his cabinet. :thumb:

wild1
04-13-2009, 08:09 PM
Joe Biden couldn't wear Dick Cheney's gravitas-filled cowboy boots.

it's funny, Biden... this raving lunatic who can't tell the truth from a daydream... was supposed to add gravitas to the ticket.

He looks more like a crazy uncle you hope never comes out of the basement

patteeu
04-13-2009, 08:53 PM
it's funny, Biden... this raving lunatic who can't tell the truth from a daydream... was supposed to add gravitas to the ticket.

He looks more like a crazy uncle you hope never comes out of the basement

Yeah, Obama's people are smart enough to keep him in Dick Cheney's undisclosed location. Dick stayed there for the nation's security. Joe stays there for Obama's.