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RustShack
04-12-2009, 11:52 AM
They were just saying on ESPN that he wouldn't be a very good fit for the Chiefs 3-4 defense but they should draft him anyways. :shake:

milkman
04-12-2009, 12:07 PM
"They"

Who are "They"?

Reaper16
04-12-2009, 12:10 PM
"They"

Who are "They"?
ChiefsPlanet members?

RustShack
04-12-2009, 12:11 PM
Mel Kiper and whoever else was on I don't know her name.

KC_Lee
04-12-2009, 12:12 PM
They = The Hearsay Experts for You.

milkman
04-12-2009, 12:14 PM
ChiefsPlanet members?

I don't think there's one member who thinks he doesn't fit.

They just don't believe he plays a position that should be drafted at #3 overall.

milkman
04-12-2009, 12:15 PM
Mel Kiper and whoever else was on I don't know her name.

Yeah, ok, that explains it.

Tribal Warfare
04-12-2009, 02:32 PM
I don't know her name.

Suzy Kolber, she must think she is a legit NFL analyst since Joe Willy Namath hit on her a few years back

Mecca
04-12-2009, 02:51 PM
Mel Kiper basically think Curry is going to be Keith Bulluck which well means he's a bad fit for a 3-4.

htismaqe
04-12-2009, 03:04 PM
I don't think there's one member who thinks he doesn't fit.

They just don't believe he plays a position that should be drafted at #3 overall.

This. He can play outside in a 4-3 or inside in a 3-4. He's a solid player with alot of upside.

But he's not worth the #3 overall.

KCDC
04-12-2009, 06:00 PM
I'd like to see an analysis on similarly situated LB talent over the past several years, for example, how they were hyped (by the well-known pundits like Kiper and Mayock), described, and how they worked out. Then, having someone compare what we are hearing about Curry in comparison, would be an interesting exercise.

bdeg
04-12-2009, 06:21 PM
I'd like to see an analysis on similarly situated LB talent over the past several years, for example, how they were hyped (by the well-known pundits like Kiper and Mayock), described, and how they worked out. Then, having someone compare what we are hearing about Curry in comparison, would be an interesting exercise.

So long as you keep in mind that most if not all of us would be fine taking him in the 8-10 range, earlier than elite prospects such as Patrick Willis.

Bad draft, I know, I know. That's why we should trade down.

Mr. Arrowhead
04-12-2009, 06:23 PM
just say no to jesus

bdeg
04-12-2009, 08:25 PM
Mel Kiper basically think Curry is going to be Keith Bulluck which well means he's a bad fit for a 3-4.

Care to elaborate on this? why couldn't Bulluck play in a 34

Mecca
04-12-2009, 10:24 PM
Care to elaborate on this? why couldn't Bulluck play in a 34

As an inside backer sure...outside backer not so much.

Guys like Bulluck are nice pieces to have but would you use a top 5 pick on the guy?

KCrockaholic
04-13-2009, 07:16 AM
As an inside backer sure...outside backer not so much.

Guys like Bulluck are nice pieces to have but would you use a top 5 pick on the guy?

This explained in no way, shape or form how Bullock is a bad fit in the 3-4. Ok now explain why he is a bad fit in the 3-4.

philfree
04-13-2009, 07:27 AM
So at 6' 242 lbs James Harrison can play ROLB and learn to rush the passer as his career progresses but a guy like Curry can't? Harrison doesn't have alot of pass rush moves either but he had how many sacks the last two years compared to his first years in the league? 8.5 in 2007 and 16 in 2008. Before that he had 4 sacks in 3 years.

PhilFree:arrow:

Reaper16
04-13-2009, 08:20 AM
So at 6' 242 lbs James Harrison can play ROLB and learn to rush the passer as his career progresses but a guy like Curry can't? Harrison doesn't have alot of pass rush moves either but he had how many sacks the last two years compared to his first years in the league? 8.5 in 2007 and 16 in 2008. Before that he had 4 sacks in 3 years.

PhilFree:arrow:
You're comparing an undrafted free agent who didn't start until his fourth season in the league to a prospect being considered for the #3 pick overall?

Oh, my.

Reerun_KC
04-13-2009, 08:44 AM
So at 6' 242 lbs James Harrison can play ROLB and learn to rush the passer as his career progresses but a guy like Curry can't? Harrison doesn't have alot of pass rush moves either but he had how many sacks the last two years compared to his first years in the league? 8.5 in 2007 and 16 in 2008. Before that he had 4 sacks in 3 years.

PhilFree:arrow:
IF Curry is drafted #3 overall, he better have more impact than UDFA had in his first 3 years...

Maybe we should compare apples to apples and not apples to hazzlenuts...

Curry better fucking set the defense on fire, lead the team in almost every defensive category for years to come if we are going to waste a Top #3 and reach for him... Other wise, he will be labeled a bust from day one.

htismaqe
04-13-2009, 09:41 AM
So at 6' 242 lbs James Harrison can play ROLB and learn to rush the passer as his career progresses but a guy like Curry can't? Harrison doesn't have alot of pass rush moves either but he had how many sacks the last two years compared to his first years in the league? 8.5 in 2007 and 16 in 2008. Before that he had 4 sacks in 3 years.

PhilFree:arrow:

Well, let's see.

James Harrison is JUST NOW getting his big money deal, AFTER he proved that he could rush the passer.

You're wanting to pay Curry MORE than Harrison will get AFTER HE PROVED IT, before Curry has played a single down.

Sounds like a great plan.

Chiefnj2
04-13-2009, 09:48 AM
Well, let's see.

James Harrison is JUST NOW getting his big money deal, AFTER he proved that he could rush the passer.

You're wanting to pay Curry MORE than Harrison will get AFTER HE PROVED IT, before Curry has played a single down.

Sounds like a great plan.

Every single rookie is getting paid before they have played a single down.

htismaqe
04-13-2009, 09:50 AM
Every single rookie is getting paid before they have played a single down.

Some positions are more worth it than others.

EDIT: Furthermore, I'm not paying that much money for a guy that MIGHT be able to rush the passer.

Chiefnj2
04-13-2009, 10:00 AM
Some positions are more worth it than others.

EDIT: Furthermore, I'm not paying that much money for a guy that MIGHT be able to rush the passer.

Just because someone did it in college, doesn't mean they will be able to do it in the NFL. Right now everyone is "might". It's just a degree of the dreaded "safe" word.

htismaqe
04-13-2009, 10:02 AM
Just because someone did it in college, doesn't mean they will be able to do it in the NFL. Right now everyone is "might". It's just a degree of the dreaded "safe" word.

No, you're absolutely right.

But the converse is also true. He didn't do it in college, so any belief that he can do it in the NFL is based on faith, not fact. I don't spend $60M based on faith.

RedThat
04-13-2009, 10:12 AM
Honestly, who gives a sh*t where the guy is picked?

Like seriously who cares? Does it really matter?

If this guy can come in and develop into a really good player for the Chiefs either today or tomorrow are you gonna stop and think to yourself and say, you know, "he was the 3rd overall pick in the draft."

I mean my point is, if I had guys at linebacker such as Keith Bulluck, Derrick Brooks, Ray Lewis just to name a few, I wouldn't even be twice as concerned about where they were picked. You know why? Because their good football players and thats what matters. As long as they draft a guy and he is great, thats the bottomline...It's not rocket science.

If this guy comes in and contributes into an outstanding player and makes the probowl year after year are we seriously gonna look back and say "yeah but he was picked 3rd overall? I don't know?"

No offense to anybody here, but I read these statements time after time on here, i.e., "you don't take a LBer with the 3rd overall pick?" I just can't help but laugh everytime I hear that...It's so stupid LOL and very difficult to grasp.

OnTheWarpath58
04-13-2009, 10:15 AM
Honestly, who gives a sh*t where the guy is picked?

Like seriously who cares? Does it really matter?

If this guy can come in and develop into a really good player for the Chiefs either today or tomorrow are you gonna stop and think to yourself and say, you know, "he was the 3rd overall pick in the draft."

I mean my point is, if I had guys at linebacker such as Keith Bulluck, Derrick Brooks, Ray Lewis just to name a few, I wouldn't even be twice as concerned about where they were picked. You know why? Because their good football players and thats what matters. As long as they draft a guy and he is great, thats the bottomline...It's not rocket science.

If this guy comes in and contributes into an outstanding player and makes the probowl year after year are we seriously gonna look back and say "yeah but he was picked 3rd overall? I don't know?"

No offense to anybody here, but I read these statements time after time on here, i.e., "you don't take a LBer with the 3rd overall pick?" I just can't help but laugh everytime I hear that...It's so stupid LOL and very difficult to grasp.

Yep, it's stupid.

So stupid, that an ILB has been taken 3rd or higher TWICE in 20 years.

Facts are stupid. Apparently, so are NFL GM's.

:rolleyes:

Chiefnj2
04-13-2009, 10:17 AM
No, you're absolutely right.

But the converse is also true. He didn't do it in college, so any belief that he can do it in the NFL is based on faith, not fact. I don't spend $60M based on faith.

Sure you do. You said you like Stafford and Sanchez. How did Stafford do against Florida in a big game? Sanchez hasn't had to come from behind to win games. Are you going to spend 60 million on a QB that comes up empty in big games, or on a different QB who hasn't proven he can come from behind?

RedThat
04-13-2009, 10:18 AM
Yep, it's stupid.

So stupid, that an ILB has been taken 3rd or higher TWICE in 20 years.

Facts are stupid. Apparently, so are NFL GM's.

:rolleyes:

So what?

What does that honestly have to do with anything?

You'd actually let those kinda facts blind you to the point where you'd rather not look on the inside on what really matters and counts whether this guy is a good player who can come in and contribute from day 1 and down the road.

OnTheWarpath58
04-13-2009, 10:23 AM
So what?

What does that honestly have to do with anything?

You'd actually let those kinda facts blind you to the point where you'd rather not look on the inside on what really matters and counts whether this guy is a good player who can come in and contribute from day 1 and down the road.

Blind me? That's rich.

I'm not the one ignoring the past as is relates to positional value.

If it was generally considered a good idea by GM's to take ILB's that high, then BETTER players like Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Patrick Willis, etc would have gone that high, instead of being taken 26th, 9th and 11th respectively - all in very average draft classes.

Now, if you think that Curry is better than all of those players I listed, then this conversation is going nowhere - other than possibly the mental ward - you'd have to be certifiably insane to think that.

Buehler445
04-13-2009, 10:50 AM
Honestly, who gives a sh*t where the guy is picked?

Like seriously who cares? Does it really matter?

If this guy can come in and develop into a really good player for the Chiefs either today or tomorrow are you gonna stop and think to yourself and say, you know, "he was the 3rd overall pick in the draft."

I mean my point is, if I had guys at linebacker such as Keith Bulluck, Derrick Brooks, Ray Lewis just to name a few, I wouldn't even be twice as concerned about where they were picked. You know why? Because their good football players and thats what matters. As long as they draft a guy and he is great, thats the bottomline...It's not rocket science.

If this guy comes in and contributes into an outstanding player and makes the probowl year after year are we seriously gonna look back and say "yeah but he was picked 3rd overall? I don't know?"

No offense to anybody here, but I read these statements time after time on here, i.e., "you don't take a LBer with the 3rd overall pick?" I just can't help but laugh everytime I hear that...It's so stupid LOL and very difficult to grasp.

OK, I'm certainly no draft guy, but the way I see it is that it is a matter of probability. GMs are looking to maximize the production for the team. If you get a franchise QB, the production he gives to a team is unmatched. Therefore a higher value. Compared to a guard, even Will Shields can't produce nearly as much as a decent QB.
It is possible for an ILB to produce at a high level for the team, but it is historically more PROBABLE that you can get production from other positions with the players available at that position. Also factored in is what you can get later in the draft.

IMO that's the reason ILB aren't picked that high.

Hopefully that is a decent explainer.

Is Ray Lewis worth pick #3? Yes. But what's the probability you get Ray Lewis-type production from the pick compared to the probability of production from other guys available?
Posted via Mobile Device

htismaqe
04-13-2009, 11:05 AM
Sure you do. You said you like Stafford and Sanchez. How did Stafford do against Florida in a big game? Sanchez hasn't had to come from behind to win games. Are you going to spend 60 million on a QB that comes up empty in big games, or on a different QB who hasn't proven he can come from behind?

Both of them have proven they can play to position you'll be asking them to play in the NFL. Whether or not they are a good QB in the NFL is a COMPLETELY different argument. And you know it.

htismaqe
04-13-2009, 11:05 AM
OK, I'm certainly no draft guy, but the way I see it is that it is a matter of probability. GMs are looking to maximize the production for the team. If you get a franchise QB, the production he gives to a team is unmatched. Therefore a higher value. Compared to a guard, even Will Shields can't produce nearly as much as a decent QB.
It is possible for an ILB to produce at a high level for the team, but it is historically more PROBABLE that you can get production from other positions with the players available at that position. Also factored in is what you can get later in the draft.

IMO that's the reason ILB aren't picked that high.

Hopefully that is a decent explainer.

Is Ray Lewis worth pick #3? Yes. But what's the probability you get Ray Lewis-type production from the pick compared to the probability of production from other guys available?
Posted via Mobile Device

Exactly.

RustShack
04-13-2009, 12:06 PM
James Harrison got to the QB a lot at Kent State, a lot more than Curry did...

RustShack
04-13-2009, 12:09 PM
Terrible guys like Kendrell Bell can look great as an ILB in a 3-4 defense, they are in no way worth a #3 pick.

Mr. Arrowhead
04-13-2009, 12:09 PM
I thought about making a club for Chiefsplanet for this upcoming draft. Its called the ABC club, Anybody But Curry, so whos down?

kcbubb
04-13-2009, 12:15 PM
Terrible guys like Kendrell Bell can look great as an ILB in a 3-4 defense, they are in no way worth a #3 pick.

Bell was an OLB with pittsburgh.

kcbubb
04-13-2009, 12:16 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80fa4dbc

RustShack
04-13-2009, 12:24 PM
Bell was an OLB with pittsburgh.

No hes was an OLB here...

bdeg
04-13-2009, 12:33 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80fa4dbc
Did that guy just compare Curry to Richard Seymour? WOW.

Curry looks really intense there yelling with his arms crossed.lol

Orakpo doesn't have the body/build??? That's exactly what he has, guy says Chiefs are discounting him because he doesn't play inside.....ROFL

ChiefsCountry
04-13-2009, 12:45 PM
Bell was an OLB with pittsburgh.

No he was an inside linebacker.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2001_roster.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2002_roster.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2003_roster.htm

RedThat
04-13-2009, 01:05 PM
Blind me? That's rich.

I'm not the one ignoring the past as is relates to positional value.

If it was generally considered a good idea by GM's to take ILB's that high, then BETTER players like Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Patrick Willis, etc would have gone that high, instead of being taken 26th, 9th and 11th respectively - all in very average draft classes.

Now, if you think that Curry is better than all of those players I listed, then this conversation is going nowhere - other than possibly the mental ward - you'd have to be certifiably insane to think that.

Im ignoring that simply because I'd like to approach this whole thing with an open mind. I believe in how this team is going to evaluate and do there homework properly before they make their pick at #3. And honestly, thats everything right there. And what matters in the end.

I just don't agree with your approach on how you view whether a guy should be drafted or not.

At that time, there were higher rated prospects at the top of the draft class, and I think that pretty much explains it as to why those guys you mentioned were picked lower. Some worked out to be pretty good others not. But thats the draft right? Its pure hit or miss.

Curry is a highly rated prospect...Will he be good? Who knows? But if he is going in the top 5 that should say something. The least we can say is he is one of the better players coming out of the country. Not saying he'll be as good as those guys you mentioned, but what if he is? all Im saying is that if he is this whole "you don't draft LB in the top 3" will definately look really dumb.

philfree
04-13-2009, 01:27 PM
No he was an inside linebacker.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2001_roster.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2002_roster.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2003_roster.htm


Who had 9 sacks as a rookie. I know, I know, those were no impact sacks because an ILB in a 3-4 got them. LOL


PhilFree:arrow:

htismaqe
04-13-2009, 01:35 PM
Im ignoring that simply because I'd like to approach this whole thing with an open mind. I believe in how this team is going to evaluate and do there homework properly before they make their pick at #3. And honestly, thats everything right there. And what matters in the end.

I just don't agree with your approach on how you view whether a guy should be drafted or not.

At that time, there were higher rated prospects at the top of the draft class, and I think that pretty much explains it as to why those guys you mentioned were picked lower. Some worked out to be pretty good others not. But thats the draft right? Its pure hit or miss.

Curry is a highly rated prospect...Will he be good? Who knows? But if he is going in the top 5 that should say something. The least we can say is he is one of the better players coming out of the country. Not saying he'll be as good as those guys you mentioned, but what if he is? all Im saying is that if he is this whole "you don't draft LB in the top 3" will definately look really dumb.

Interesting, I'm arguing from my side because I want to keep an open mind. Since I came back in January, I've read numerous posts stating that Curry is the only logical pick for us.

htismaqe
04-13-2009, 01:38 PM
Who had 9 sacks as a rookie. I know, I know, those were no impact sacks because an ILB in a 3-4 got them. LOL


PhilFree:arrow:

He had 9 sacks as a rookie after getting only 7 at Georgia and 6 in JUCO.

Good thing he was a SECOND ROUND PICK.

philfree
04-13-2009, 01:47 PM
He had 9 sacks as a rookie after getting only 7 at Georgia and 6 in JUCO.

Good thing he was a SECOND ROUND PICK.

The point with that is you can have an impact player at the ILB position. That said I don't have Curry pigeon holed as just an ILB in a 3-4.

PhilFree:arrow:

kcbubb
04-13-2009, 01:51 PM
hmmm.... guess i'm wrong there. I really thought Bell played outside. maybe it was all the sacks he had his rookie season that made me think that.

DaneMcCloud
04-13-2009, 01:54 PM
The point with that is you can have an impact player at the ILB position. That said I don't have Curry pigeon holed as just an ILB in a 3-4.

PhilFree:arrow:

No.

Kendrell Bell had 20.5 sacks in 7 seasons.

Yay!

I sure hope that Curry can do that, too!

Mr. Arrowhead
04-13-2009, 02:05 PM
curry does not fit in a 3-4 scheme at all. He is just a horrible fit here

htismaqe
04-13-2009, 02:44 PM
The point with that is you can have an impact player at the ILB position. That said I don't have Curry pigeon holed as just an ILB in a 3-4.

PhilFree:arrow:

The point is that you can FIND impact players at the ILB position outside of #3 overall.

In fact, 100% of ALL impact ILB's in the NFL today and in the past 10 years, were drafted outside of the top 5 of the draft.

Mr. Arrowhead
04-13-2009, 03:15 PM
The point is that you can FIND impact players at the ILB position outside of #3 overall.

In fact, 100% of ALL impact ILB's in the NFL today and in the past 10 years, were drafted outside of the top 5 of the draft.
im sure at least more than half of them were drafted outside of the 1st round