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View Full Version : Chiefs Denver fans: what are the odds of a KC/Denver trade?


Direckshun
04-12-2009, 04:54 PM
Your two first-rounders are roughly equivalent to our #3 overall, which we'd be happy to use to trade down.

I'm in Mecca's camp, and believe that the Seahawks will be drafting Sanchez if he drops there.

You guys need need need a franchise QB more than anything, and this is your best chance to get one because 2010 is weak sauce.

What are the odds you offer us both of your 1sts this year to grab Sanchez?

Does that deal make sense to you? If McDaniels pulled this off, would you be critical?

listopencil
04-12-2009, 04:59 PM
It would be a horrible idea. We need as many picks as possible because we have many holes on our D. Giving up two 1st rounders to get a QB would be incredibly stupid. I would like to think that if they were going to use the picks to get a "franchise QB" they would have just traded with Detroit.

Direckshun
04-12-2009, 05:09 PM
It would be a horrible idea. We need as many picks as possible because we have many holes on our D. Giving up two 1st rounders to get a QB would be incredibly stupid. I would like to think that if they were going to use the picks to get a "franchise QB" they would have just traded with Detroit.

That's fair, but I really disagree. QB must be the first piece in the puzzle.

Unless you guys think Freeman, or one of the '10 guys can promise you much...

Von Dumbass
04-12-2009, 05:11 PM
The Redskins would have offered us a similar deal to what we got with Chicago, but McDaniels wanted Kyle Orton instead of Jason Cambell, and Washington had a higher first round draft pick to give up.

I don't think that McDaniels is going to draft a QB on the first day. The first three picks probably will be made on defense. Even if Sanchez is sitting there at 12 I don't think we would draft him.

Direckshun
04-12-2009, 05:12 PM
Even if Sanchez is sitting there at 12 I don't think we would draft him.

ROFL

Oh god, I've missed you guys.

Von Dumbass
04-12-2009, 05:15 PM
ROFL

Oh god, I've missed you guys.

Orton was the main reason why the trade was made and we didn't wait for other offers. I don't know what McDaniels sees in Orton, but he made Cassel look like a decent QB.

LaChapelle
04-12-2009, 05:54 PM
You'll have to throw in Brodie to make it work.

patteeu
04-12-2009, 06:48 PM
It would be a horrible idea. We need as many picks as possible because we have many holes on our D. Giving up two 1st rounders to get a QB would be incredibly stupid. I would like to think that if they were going to use the picks to get a "franchise QB" they would have just traded with Detroit.

Chicago just gave you 2 first round picks for your "franchise QB" so wouldn't you just be paying the going rate and be no worse off than before Cutler left (aside from being a few years back on the learning curve)?

chiefs1111
04-12-2009, 06:52 PM
Your two first-rounders are roughly equivalent to our #3 overall, which we'd be happy to use to trade down.

I'm in Mecca's camp, and believe that the Seahawks will be drafting Sanchez if he drops there.

You guys need need need a franchise QB more than anything, and this is your best chance to get one because 2010 is weak sauce.

What are the odds you offer us both of your 1sts this year to grab Sanchez?

Does that deal make sense to you? If McDaniels pulled this off, would you be critical?

The Donks already have their franchise qb,Kyle Orton,lol

Mile High Mania
04-12-2009, 07:25 PM
Worst idea ever, well one of the top 3 in the last 6 months.

Go Mizzou & Chiefs
04-12-2009, 07:27 PM
You'll have to throw in Brodie to make it work.

:D REP!!!!!!

Direckshun
04-12-2009, 07:27 PM
Worst idea ever, well one of the top 3 in the last 6 months.

So... live and let live with Orton, eh?

Bowser
04-12-2009, 07:29 PM
So... live and let live with Orton, eh?

What's Chris Simms? Chopped liver (or spleen)?

Mile High Mania
04-12-2009, 07:47 PM
So... live and let live with Orton, eh?

For now, yes. They had their franchise QB and decided to crap the bed and make it a bad situation that resulted in a trade.

They need to fix the team before they worry about their next franchise QB. Cutler had a nice 2008, but the defense sucked... they've focused on FA a great deal so far to fix the defense, now they have a chance with a lot of picks to load up on rookies that can make an impact.

So, if Mr. Hotshot New HC wants to see if he can do great things with Orton, let's give it a whirl.

Hell, at least Orton has 2-3 years of experience with a number of wins. Look what McD was able to do with your new QB. Hell, Cassel hadn't done anything significant since high school, now after the 2008 season - he's your savior.

So, yes - I do think that Orton can have that same type of success in Denver in this system with the weapons they have on offense.

They don't need to worry about Sanchez... focus on defense.

wild1
04-12-2009, 07:51 PM
The Redskins would have offered us a similar deal to what we got with Chicago, but McDaniels wanted Kyle Orton instead of Jason Cambell, and Washington had a higher first round draft pick to give up.

I don't think that McDaniels is going to draft a QB on the first day. The first three picks probably will be made on defense. Even if Sanchez is sitting there at 12 I don't think we would draft him.

I tend to agree. It doesn't make sense for Denver to get Orton in the deal when they could have gotten another pick surely unless they wanted Orton.

I think it's hilarity that they think Orton could be their guy, but hey. Who knows. That's why they make 10 or 20 times what I do.


But yes, I would be in favor of this trade since it would be so terrible for the Broncos

EyePod
04-12-2009, 07:53 PM
That's fair, but I really disagree. QB must be the first piece in the puzzle.

Unless you guys think Freeman, or one of the '10 guys can promise you much...

LOL They already had their QB... :):):)

HerculesRockefell
04-12-2009, 08:12 PM
I'd disagree that the '10 QB crop is weak. One of the main reasons that Sanchez went pro is that he would not have been the #2 QB in the '10 class if he'd stayed in school. You've got Bradford, Snead, and McCoy out there, and there will probably be an underclassmen or two who will be possible 1st round picks after their upcoming junior seasons as well.

If Denver wanted Sanchez so bad and knew they had to trade up to get him, then Cutler would not be in Chicago right now. Detroit apparently offered at least the 1st overall for Cutler that the Broncos turned down for financial reasons. But if they considered Sanchez (or Stafford) to be franchise QBs, why do you turn down a deal that guarantees that you get your guy, even with the money that would be shelled? You don't.

"Orton sucks/Orton is awesome" aside, the fact remains that McDaniels valued him as an asset in this trade. He wasn't a throw-in. Denver had teams like the Skins and Jets who picked higher in the 1st still trying to acquire Cutler. #s 12 and 13 is a much more attractive offer to some team in the Top 10 if Sanchez was the target all along and Denver wants to move up for him.

Denver sent no one to USC's pro day. With Shanahan it meant nothing, since they would routinely draft guys they never spoke to. We'll find out what that means with McDaniels in 2 weeks.

If Sanchez falls past the Seahawks, then I think they might make a move for him with Cleveland or Jacksonville. But Denver's not going to trade with the Chiefs, especially if it means they have to give up both 1sts.

I think they try to load up with defensive picks and give Orton a year. If he falls flat on his face, then they're in a position to draft a QB in the Top 5 next year without having to trade up.

HerculesRockefell
04-12-2009, 08:19 PM
I tend to agree. It doesn't make sense for Denver to get Orton in the deal when they could have gotten another pick surely unless they wanted Orton.


Exactly. They didn't just turn down additional pick(s), but a higher 1st from the Skins and the Jets (even though it is only 1 spot). Denver wasn't picking up the phone/responding to texts from Wash, Tampa, or NYJ at the end because those teams were only offering picks.

Why turn down #13 (5 spots higher), #80 (4 spots higher), a '10 1st, and (hypothetically) a '10 2nd when you know you have to trade up for the guy you really want, and instead take a deal with lower picks and a QB you don't want?

Chiefshrink
04-12-2009, 08:34 PM
First and foremost the Patriots way is to draft a late rd QB and develop him. No way Josh drafts a top tier QB. For one Broncos are tight on cash and two he already has himself out on the limb sawing his own ass off by running Cutler out of town. If he drafts a top tier QB and makes Bowlen pay all that $$ and ends up like a Harrington bust, his ass is out of town within 2yrs.

Sims and Orten were brought in because they both have winning records as starters. They manage the game very well. They are stopgaps yes but until Josh gets his young late rd drafted QB of this yr developed in 2-3yrs. Sims knows Josh's offense fairly well and was paid more $$ than Orton so look for Sims to be the eventual starter.

Just tellin it like I see it here in Broncos land.

Chiefshrink
04-12-2009, 08:38 PM
Understand that when Brady went down last yr they called in Chris Sims that following week but Chris never made it to the Pats facilities from the airport because as soon as he landed the Pats said thx but no thx and decided to go with Cassel.

Mile High Mania
04-12-2009, 08:42 PM
I'm also partially expecting them to trade down from one of their R1 picks... I'd love to see them go defense with both or, DEF at 12 and maybe Moreno at 18. But, something tells me that they'll trade down one of those picks.

HerculesRockefell
04-12-2009, 08:50 PM
I'm also partially expecting them to trade down from one of their R1 picks... I'd love to see them go defense with both or, DEF at 12 and maybe Moreno at 18. But, something tells me that they'll trade down one of those picks.

I think they trade down from #12, especially if Stafford goes 1st. The Lions might want to get ahead of the Skins to get a tackle. A RB at #18 wouldn't surprise me either.

Direckshun
04-12-2009, 09:09 PM
I bet your tune changes mighty fast, MHM, when you guys trade up for Sanchez.

StcChief
04-12-2009, 09:11 PM
Chicago just gave you 2 first round picks for your "franchise QB" so wouldn't you just be paying the going rate and be no worse off than before Cutler left (aside from being a few years back on the learning curve)?won't happen Dungver has to come out ahead....they won't trade with Chiefs unless they can screw us.

T-post Tom
04-13-2009, 12:23 AM
For now, yes. They had their franchise QB and decided to crap the bed and make it a bad situation that resulted in a trade.

They need to fix the team before they worry about their next franchise QB. Cutler had a nice 2008, but the defense sucked... they've focused on FA a great deal so far to fix the defense, now they have a chance with a lot of picks to load up on rookies that can make an impact.

So, if Mr. Hotshot New HC wants to see if he can do great things with Orton, let's give it a whirl.

Hell, at least Orton has 2-3 years of experience with a number of wins. Look what McD was able to do with your new QB. Hell, Cassel hadn't done anything significant since high school, now after the 2008 season - he's your savior.

So, yes - I do think that Orton can have that same type of success in Denver in this system with the weapons they have on offense.

They don't need to worry about Sanchez... focus on defense.

That's my guess.

Mile High Mania
04-13-2009, 04:59 AM
I bet your tune changes mighty fast, MHM, when you guys trade up for Sanchez.

I can't control anything that happens... but I promise that I won't be happy if they take Sanchez. That doesn't make sense to me at this point.

DTLB58
04-13-2009, 10:39 AM
Your two first-rounders are roughly equivalent to our #3 overall, which we'd be happy to use to trade down.

I'm in Mecca's camp, and believe that the Seahawks will be drafting Sanchez if he drops there.

You guys need need need a franchise QB more than anything, and this is your best chance to get one because 2010 is weak sauce.

What are the odds you offer us both of your 1sts this year to grab Sanchez?

Does that deal make sense to you? If McDaniels pulled this off, would you be critical?

Just think it's funny how opinions differ....Kiper said a month ago that he thought the 2010 class would rival the '83 QB class.

I have no opinion here cause I don't watch that much college football, just saying....

Reerun_KC
04-13-2009, 10:44 AM
No offense, but we NEED a franchise QB in the worst way as well.... Denver isnt the only one with that need!

Reerun_KC
04-13-2009, 10:46 AM
Just think it's funny how opinions differ....Kiper said a month ago that he thought the 2010 class would rival the '83 QB class.

I have no opinion here cause I don't watch that much college football, just saying....


That is reason enough to boycott the 2010 QB class.... Kiper isnt the person I would base the future of my drafts and franchise on...

Dude is more stale than his hair....

vailpass
04-13-2009, 10:49 AM
The trade proposed in this post is so horrible that only an idiot would accept it; the caliber of idiot that would trade away a franchise QB before he ever saw him take one snap as coach.

But Denver is not drafting a high-round QB, they already had a top-gun and traded him.
McKid made his bed now he must lie in it.
More important for Denver is RB, B-Marsh suspension, and just about any defensive position not currently occupied by someone named Champ.

htismaqe
04-13-2009, 10:49 AM
Just think it's funny how opinions differ....Kiper said a month ago that he thought the 2010 class would rival the '83 QB class.

I have no opinion here cause I don't watch that much college football, just saying....

Kiper is sold on Tebow, McCoy, and Bradford, that's why. Think about that for a minute.

DTLB58
04-13-2009, 10:52 AM
That is reason enough to boycott the 2010 QB class.... Kiper isnt the person I would base the future of my drafts and franchise on...

Dude is more stale than his hair....

I've noticed he is just so wishy washy.

He can pimp a guy and tear him down all in the same analysts of him. Just covering his arse so he an say I said that.

Reerun_KC
04-13-2009, 10:52 AM
Kiper is sold on Tebow, McCoy, and Bradford, that's why. Think about that for a minute.

Let me offer this up for Kiper, would save the fans of the NFL alot of future stupidity....

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/user_images/830/122830_Bullet_Lighter_with_Gun.jpg

SBK
04-13-2009, 10:57 AM
I'd be pissed if my team traded away their QB and then used 2 #1's to draft a new one. That's a really dumb move.

DTLB58
04-13-2009, 10:58 AM
I'd disagree that the '10 QB crop is weak. One of the main reasons that Sanchez went pro is that he would not have been the #2 QB in the '10 class if he'd stayed in school. You've got Bradford, Snead, and McCoy out there, and there will probably be an underclassmen or two who will be possible 1st round picks after their upcoming junior seasons as well.

If Denver wanted Sanchez so bad and knew they had to trade up to get him, then Cutler would not be in Chicago right now. Detroit apparently offered at least the 1st overall for Cutler that the Broncos turned down for financial reasons. But if they considered Sanchez (or Stafford) to be franchise QBs, why do you turn down a deal that guarantees that you get your guy, even with the money that would be shelled? You don't.

"Orton sucks/Orton is awesome" aside, the fact remains that McDaniels valued him as an asset in this trade. He wasn't a throw-in. Denver had teams like the Skins and Jets who picked higher in the 1st still trying to acquire Cutler. #s 12 and 13 is a much more attractive offer to some team in the Top 10 if Sanchez was the target all along and Denver wants to move up for him.

Denver sent no one to USC's pro day. With Shanahan it meant nothing, since they would routinely draft guys they never spoke to. We'll find out what that means with McDaniels in 2 weeks.

If Sanchez falls past the Seahawks, then I think they might make a move for him with Cleveland or Jacksonville. But Denver's not going to trade with the Chiefs, especially if it means they have to give up both 1sts.

I think they try to load up with defensive picks and give Orton a year. If he falls flat on his face, then they're in a position to draft a QB in the Top 5 next year without having to trade up.

Here, Here.

McDaniles may want to but I don't think Bowlen will let him.

Mile High Mania
04-13-2009, 11:04 AM
I'd be pissed if my team traded away their QB and then used 2 #1's to draft a new one. That's a really dumb move.

Very strong point... and if they did make such a move, then they accomplish nothing but setting the franchise further back.

I've said this many times, but they're much more than a franchise QB away from doing anything of note in the playoffs. Hell, they're a number of players away from being a strong contender for the division crown.

So, roll with Orton/Simms... focus on defense and see what happens.

Buehler445
04-13-2009, 11:11 AM
The trade proposed in this post is so horrible that only an idiot would accept it; the caliber of idiot that would trade away a franchise QB before he ever saw him take one snap as coach.

But Denver is not drafting a high-round QB, they already had a top-gun and traded him.
McKid made his bed now he must lie in it.
More important for Denver is RB, B-Marsh suspension, and just about any defensive position not currently occupied by someone named Champ.

Not to hijack, but what is the story on Champ? No trash talk, just curious. I know he has been hurt a lot. Is he breaking down or is it flukey?
Posted via Mobile Device

Go Mizzou & Chiefs
04-13-2009, 11:13 AM
Broncos would have to be mentally retarded to do that..... oh wait

Mile High Mania
04-13-2009, 11:15 AM
Not to hijack, but what is the story on Champ? No trash talk, just curious. I know he has been hurt a lot. Is he breaking down or is it flukey?
Posted via Mobile Device

I dunno what the latest on Champ is... he's getting older, but from what I recall.. he's fine for 2009, should be ready to roll.

Champ is entering his 11th season... his 6th in Denver.

Buehler445
04-13-2009, 11:21 AM
I dunno what the latest on Champ is... he's getting older, but from what I recall.. he's fine for 2009, should be ready to roll.

Champ is entering his 11th season... his 6th in Denver.

Is the consensus that he can still play at a high level?

From what I saw (note that it is pretty limited) it looked like he still had his speed. Its just a matter of staying healthy. I was wondering what the consensus of the fans was.

That'd be a big blow if he can't go much longer.
Posted via Mobile Device

vailpass
04-13-2009, 11:23 AM
Is the consensus that he can still play at a high level?

From what I saw (note that it is pretty limited) it looked like he still had his speed. Its just a matter of staying healthy. I was wondering what the consensus of the fans was.

That'd be a big blow if he can't go much longer.
Posted via Mobile Device

Who knows what the season will bring? Everything I see says he is ready to go. The guy hasn't had more than a hand full of balls thrown to his side of the field in the last 6 years. Maybe this will be the year opposing Os try to test him consistently.
I hope so.

Raised On Riots
04-13-2009, 11:24 AM
Your two first-rounders are roughly equivalent to our #3 overall, which we'd be happy to use to trade down.

I'm in Mecca's camp, and believe that the Seahawks will be drafting Sanchez if he drops there.

You guys need need need a franchise QB more than anything, and this is your best chance to get one because 2010 is weak sauce.

What are the odds you offer us both of your 1sts this year to grab Sanchez?

Does that deal make sense to you? If McDaniels pulled this off, would you be critical?

Revoke this motherfuckers fan card.

Mile High Mania
04-13-2009, 11:25 AM
Is the consensus that he can still play at a high level?

From what I saw (note that it is pretty limited) it looked like he still had his speed. Its just a matter of staying healthy. I was wondering what the consensus of the fans was.

That'd be a big blow if he can't go much longer.
Posted via Mobile Device

Champ is only 30... injuries are always a concern, but he should be fine for a while to go.

Buehler445
04-13-2009, 11:27 AM
Who knows what the season will bring? Everything I see says he is ready to go. The guy hasn't had more than a hand full of balls thrown to his side of the field in the last 6 years. Maybe this will be the year opposing Os try to test him consistently.
I hope so.

Yeah. I knew people still tried to throw away from him. Although part of that could have been because Bly was less than good.

Wasn't Champ the leading tackle on the team at one point? I'd think that would be at least a contributor to injuries.
Posted via Mobile Device

Tuckdaddy
04-13-2009, 11:29 AM
I'm also partially expecting them to trade down from one of their R1 picks... I'd love to see them go defense with both or, DEF at 12 and maybe Moreno at 18. But, something tells me that they'll trade down one of those picks.

Moreno? I would love that. A slow overrated RB to go along with the crap load of RB's you signed this off season. I hope you guys waste 18 on Moreno.

Frankie
04-13-2009, 11:34 AM
FWIW:

KC
1st = 2200 points

Denver
1st(a)+1st(b)+4th = 2178 points

Mile High Mania
04-13-2009, 11:36 AM
FWIW:

KC
1st = 2200 points

Denver
1st(a)+1st(b)+4th = 2178 points

One of the main reasons this thread is nothing but pie in the sky dreams for some.

vailpass
04-13-2009, 11:38 AM
This is the worst year in recent memory to hold a top draft pick. I wouldn't want anything in the first 10 picks this year.
The cost is astronomical and the talent this year just isn't worht it.
They will soon have a rookie salary cap in place as part of the new CBA, then top draft picks will be worth having.
How is a team supposed to rebuild through the draft when they have to bust their sal cap to sign the top player?
The number one this year is going to command around $33 million in GAURANTEED $ before he ver plays a single down.
Insanity that will soon end.

Mile High Mania
04-13-2009, 11:40 AM
I just hope there isn't a work stoppage.

vailpass
04-13-2009, 11:42 AM
I just hope there isn't a work stoppage.

Even football players aren't stupid enough to kill the golden goose in this economy.
They might not be able to read but they have people that read the news to them.

Mile High Mania
04-13-2009, 12:32 PM
Even football players aren't stupid enough to kill the golden goose in this economy.
They might not be able to read but they have people that read the news to them.

We should never underestimate the stupidity level of those in professional sports...

HemiEd
04-13-2009, 12:41 PM
The trade proposed in this post is so horrible that only an idiot would accept it; the caliber of idiot that would trade away a franchise QB before he ever saw him take one snap as coach.

But Denver is not drafting a high-round QB, they already had a top-gun and traded him.
McKid made his bed now he must lie in it.
More important for Denver is RB, B-Marsh suspension, and just about any defensive position not currently occupied by someone named Champ.

I see you are about as excited with your new coach, as I was with Herm Fucking Edwards.

vailpass
04-13-2009, 12:50 PM
I see you are about as excited with your new coach, as I was with Herm Fucking Edwards.

So far you are absolutely correct Ed.
He hasn't coached a down yet and I'm giving him every chance to prove it on the field.
I don't like his style, I don't like that he wears a frigging hoodie, I don't like that he is in way over his head.
Come game day I may change my tune, we'll see.

patteeu
04-13-2009, 01:04 PM
This is the worst year in recent memory to hold a top draft pick. I wouldn't want anything in the first 10 picks this year.
The cost is astronomical and the talent this year just isn't worht it.
They will soon have a rookie salary cap in place as part of the new CBA, then top draft picks will be worth having.
How is a team supposed to rebuild through the draft when they have to bust their sal cap to sign the top player?
The number one this year is going to command around $33 million in GAURANTEED $ before he ver plays a single down.
Insanity that will soon end.

Whether the draft prognosticators can find them or not, there are at least one or two superstars in this draft and the teams with top ten picks, collectively get the first ten chances of finding them.

Here's a list of one player picked later than the top 10 in every draft over the past 30 years. All of them are pro-bowlers. Most of them are legitimate super stars (although it's too soon to pick out the legit superstars from the more recent drafts). In most years, there were several choices to choose from so I tried to mix it up wrt position.

1979 Joe Montana*
1980 Dwight Stephenson*
1981 Howie Long*
1982 Andre Tippett*
1983 Darrell Green*
1984 John Alt
1985 Jerry Rice
1986 Charles Haley
1987 Chris Carter
1988 Thurman Thomas*
1989 Steve Atwater
1990 Emmitt Smith*
1991 Aeneas Williams
1992 Levon Kirkland
1993 Michael Strahan
1994 Rodney Harrison
1995 Terrell Davis
1996 Marvin Harrison
1997 Jason Taylor
1998 Flozell Adams
1999 Joey Porter
2000 Tom Brady
2001 Chad Johnson
2002 Ed Reed
2003 Osi Umenyiora
2004 Jared Allen
2005 Frank Gore
2006 Brandon Marshall
2007 Le'Ron McClain
2008 Chris Johnson


* Hall of Famer

HemiEd
04-13-2009, 01:13 PM
So far you are absolutely correct Ed.
He hasn't coached a down yet and I'm giving him every chance to prove it on the field.
I don't like his style, I don't like that he wears a frigging hoodie, I don't like that he is in way over his head.
Come game day I may change my tune, we'll see.

Yeah, I tried to give Herm the first year to show what he could do, or hang himself.

He did, repeatedly. He just kept pissing me off to a further degree.

If I wished you any better luck, it wouldn't be sincere. :D

vailpass
04-13-2009, 01:36 PM
Whether the draft prognosticators can find them or not, there are at least one or two superstars in this draft and the teams with top ten picks, collectively get the first ten chances of finding them.

Here's a list of one player picked later than the top 10 in every draft over the past 30 years. All of them are pro-bowlers. Most of them are legitimate super stars (although it's too soon to pick out the legit superstars from the more recent drafts). In most years, there were several choices to choose from so I tried to mix it up wrt position.

1979 Joe Montana*
1980 Dwight Stephenson*
1981 Howie Long*
1982 Andre Tippett*
1983 Darrell Green*
1984 John Alt
1985 Jerry Rice
1986 Charles Haley
1987 Chris Carter
1988 Thurman Thomas*
1989 Steve Atwater
1990 Emmitt Smith*
1991 Aeneas Williams
1992 Levon Kirkland
1993 Michael Strahan
1994 Rodney Harrison
1995 Terrell Davis
1996 Marvin Harrison
1997 Jason Taylor
1998 Flozell Adams
1999 Joey Porter
2000 Tom Brady
2001 Chad Johnson
2002 Ed Reed
2003 Osi Umenyiora
2004 Jared Allen
2005 Frank Gore
2006 Brandon Marshall
2007 Le'Ron McClain
2008 Chris Johnson


* Hall of Famer

Very interesting list Pat, thank you.

vailpass
04-13-2009, 01:37 PM
Yeah, I tried to give Herm the first year to show what he could do, or hang himself.

He did, repeatedly. He just kept pissing me off to a further degree.

If I wished you any better luck, it wouldn't be sincere. :D

:thumb: I wouldn't have it any other way.
Hope all is well with you and yours, I know it takes time.