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BigRedChief
04-12-2009, 08:14 PM
Analysis: Obama scores win on pirate crisis
His administration passes its first critical national security test
By JENNIFER LOVEN
The Associated Press
updated 6:59 p.m. CT, Sun., April 12, 2009

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WASHINGTON - The U.S. economy is showing only glimmers of life and two costly wars remain in the balance, but President Barack Obama's "no drama" handling of the Indian Ocean hostage crisis proved a big win for his administration in its first critical national security test.

Obama's quiet backstage decision to authorize the Defense Department to take necessary action if Capt. Richard Phillips' life was in imminent danger gave a Navy commander the go-ahead to order snipers to fire on the pirates holding the cargo ship captain at gunpoint.

For Obama, the benefits were instantly clear: an American life saved and a major victory notched against an increasingly worrisome scourge of the seas off the Horn of Africa.

Obama's handling of the crisis showed a president who was comfortable in relying on the U.S. military, much as his predecessor, George W. Bush, did.
Will Obama benefit politically?
But it also showed a new commander in chief who was willing to use all the tools at his disposal, bringing in federal law enforcement officials to handle the judicial elements of the crisis.

The rescue appeared to vindicate Obama's muted but determined handling of the incident. What won't be known for some time is whether Obama will benefit politically.

When Obama campaigns for re-election, he may take Bush's approach of turning any such incident into evidence of his leadership acumen. On the other hand, Obama didn't go before the cameras Sunday to trumpet the success, instead releasing a written statement that saluted the bravery of the military and Phillips but claimed no credit for himself.

Also, this crisis, while topping the news now, may fade into distant memory by the time voters get a chance to take any new measure of Obama and his party.

Still, it goes some way toward dispelling the notion that a liberal Democrat with a known distaste for war — Obama campaigned on his consistent opposition to the Iraq invasion — doesn't have the will to call on U.S. military power.

The sniper operation Sunday, with pirate guns aimed at Phillips, was a daring, high-stakes gambit, and it could have easily gone awry. If it had, the fallout would have probably landed hardest on Obama.

Indeed, the last Democratic president to unleash American military might against Somalis suffered miserably from the failure of that operation. Portrayed in the book and movie "Black Hawk Down," a U.S. peacekeeping mission ordered by President Bill Clinton ended with a humiliating withdrawal of troops after a deadly clash in the Somali capital of Mogadishu.
The outcome this time was vastly different.

Declined to answer questions
Since the standoff began last Tuesday, Obama made no public, in-person remarks on the topic, even declining to answer when questions were shouted at him during a press availability.

He didn't call in his Cabinet for a high-profile command meeting. He let military and top administration officials do the talking, but even they kept saber-rattling out of the equation.

White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel said Obama's silence should not be interpreted to mean that he wasn't deeply involved. The president's public posture was calculated to not raise the temperature on the situation or give the hostage-takers anything to exploit.
"Let's not confuse a public role with being on top of the situation," Emanuel said. "If you'd interjected yourself, you would make the discussions that were happening more difficult."


So what Obama did was receive regular briefings, sometimes as often as half a dozen times a day. He weighed in with two critical decisions allowing the military to take action to save Phillips' life. And he laid the groundwork for a federal criminal law enforcement response.
White House officials said the Justice Department is already reviewing evidence to determine whether to file criminal charges against the captured Somali pirate. The U.S. is treating the matter as a criminal case because officials have found no direct ties between East African pirates and terror groups.

Obama doesn't like labels for himself or catch phrases for policy. So it's notable that in an administration that has for all intents and purposes banned the phrase "war on terror," no one called the pirates "terrorists."

Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

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Obama twice authorized deadly force against the pirates if the soldiers on the ground thought his life was in danger. Letting soldiers do their job? Authorizing them to whats right without calling the White House for clearance?
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D97H4LVO0&show_article=1

HonestChieffan
04-12-2009, 08:38 PM
This had to be written by Obama or Rahm himself. What garbage. 5 freaking days?

You have to admire the spin machine and how well they plant stories.

BigRedChief
04-12-2009, 08:40 PM
This had to be written by Obama or Rahm himself. What garbage. 5 freaking days?

You have to admire the spin machine and how well they plant stories.
ha ROFL The AP is not a spinster of the far left.

The hostage is alive. The crew is safe. Not a single American harmed. The bag guys are dead or in custody. Yeah, its just spin. No good outcome to see here, move along.

wild1
04-12-2009, 08:42 PM
Oh give me a break. 4 guys in a tub with guns is a 'critical national security test'?

That is laugh out loud funny.

BigRedChief
04-12-2009, 08:43 PM
Oh give me a break. 4 guys in a tub with guns is a 'critical national security test'?

That is laugh out loud funny.
Not my words, The AP's words.

googlegoogle
04-12-2009, 08:43 PM
MSNBC Haha

banyon
04-12-2009, 08:44 PM
Oh give me a break. 4 guys in a tub with guns is a 'critical national security test'?

That is laugh out loud funny.

I would think you probably could come up with some equally dismissive description of 1979, but it ruined Carter nonetheless.

Reaper16
04-12-2009, 08:46 PM
MSNBC Haha
Its the AP, shitbird.

wild1
04-12-2009, 08:46 PM
Not my words, The AP's words.

I didn't say they were yours.

It's a laughable puff piece. In a world full of Kim Jong Il, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Osama Bin Laden, Al Queda, etc... the AP writes this puff piece about 4 Somalis with AKs and gives it a byline acting like he charmed us out of the cuban missle crisis.

Anybody with any sense would have gotten that decision right. "National security test"... I'm still just roaring over here.

BigRedChief
04-12-2009, 08:49 PM
Fox news for those among us that only believe what they tell ya.:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/12/official-sea-captain-faced-imminent-danger/

Obama Twice Approved Plan to Rescue U.S. Sea Captain

A senior administration official told FOX News that Obama granted the authority on Friday and Saturday to use appropriate force to rescue Capt. Richard Phillips from a lifeboat off the Somali coast

googlegoogle
04-12-2009, 08:51 PM
Its the AP, shitbird.

And Msnbc is publishing it too. Fits their demographics.

Calling me a name boy? A shitbird? Can't come up with something funny huh? Such a quick wit.

BigRedChief
04-12-2009, 08:51 PM
This had to be written by Obama or Rahm himself. What garbage. 5 freaking days?.Your Fox News buddies are reporting that Obama authorized military action on Friday.

Radar Chief
04-12-2009, 08:55 PM
"Critical National Security Test"? ROFL OMFG LMAO

HonestChieffan
04-12-2009, 08:56 PM
according to the white house....

wild1
04-12-2009, 08:57 PM
Your Fox News buddies are reporting that Obama authorized military action on Friday.

I don't think that was ever in dispute. Anyone would have given that same order, use force if the opportunity presents itself to resolve without losing the hostage. It's common sense.

I hope someday he can get around to addressing other "critical national security tests", like North Korea's nuclear program, Iran's nuclear program, their president openly advocating genocide of an enture nation, the wind-down of the war on terror, blah balh blah. all that back-of-the-newspaper stuff.

All those things that pale in comparison to a couple of illiterate teenagers in a motorboat, of course.

HonestChieffan
04-12-2009, 09:03 PM
What amazes me is how the White House is crowing over their "success" and not a word of recognition for the Navy, the SEALS who got it done or any support for tthe military abilities we have. Of course we have that little tidbit that the Pres didnt hold a presser to take credit....but he also didn't hold a presser to shower praise on the Rescuers...and now they start this media blitz to take credit.

If the deal had gone bad, who would he have thrown under the bus?

They are smart enough to take no credit or make any statement untill its a good outcome, then come forward. Smart. Gotta give em smart points.

stevieray
04-12-2009, 09:07 PM
... a handful of men on a boat out of gas at sea is a critical national security test?

current journalism is a joke.

HonestChieffan
04-12-2009, 09:08 PM
journalism through white house press releases.

VAChief
04-12-2009, 09:11 PM
... a handful of men on a boat out of gas at sea is a critical national security test?

current journalism is a joke.

I'm certainly happy about the outcome, but the headline was way over the top hyperbole. I would cringe if I were Obama reading that headline. Its like banking in a 3 pointer from the top of the key. You'll take get it, but you still hang your head a little embarrassed.

wild1
04-12-2009, 09:11 PM
What amazes me is how the White House is crowing over their "success" and not a word of recognition for the Navy, the SEALS who got it done or any support for tthe military abilities we have. Of course we have that little tidbit that the Pres didnt hold a presser to take credit....but he also didn't hold a presser to shower praise on the Rescuers...and now they start this media blitz to take credit.

If the deal had gone bad, who would he have thrown under the bus?

They are smart enough to take no credit or make any statement untill its a good outcome, then come forward. Smart. Gotta give em smart points.

The subtext here is that the Obama worshippers are starting threads trying to turn this into political capital. "See, he's tough. He's not afraid to kill some terrorists, he gave the order to have these guys whacked..."

He probably waved his hand and OKed that the Navy make this situation go away as soon as it was convenient. Then he put his blackberry back in his pocket and went on with the apology tour.

And it was the right call. But let's not act like this makes him some toughguy who's not flying around the world apologizing for everyone and everything, or that he's proven he is going to be tough when it matters.

It's easy when 4 guys in a fishing boat push, to push back. What's he gonna do when Mahmoud Ahmadinejad pushes? What about the next time Russia pushes? They did it during the campaign and he hid under his podium.

The next time he pushes back against someone with some weight to put behind their fist let me know.

Until then, he made the right move, but you Obama Orthodox out there need to hold off on crowning him william wallace

dirk digler
04-12-2009, 09:28 PM
Good job by the SEALS and the snipers for killing these pirate bastards and good job by Obama for ordering this and bringing the captain home.

Good news all around but it seems the alot of you still have sour grapes and sandy vaginas. They have medication for all that you know.

BucEyedPea
04-12-2009, 09:28 PM
I don't think this rises to a National Security crises. But Obama was being condemned for his silence and he didn't have any leaks ( done intentionally at times) when he just felt being quiet about it was the best solution. He turned to be right. There's no arguing with results. I say it's full of WIN!

dirk digler
04-12-2009, 09:29 PM
I don't think this rises to a National Security crises. But he was condemned for his silence and he didn't have any leaks ( done intentionally at times) when he just felt being quiet about it was the best solution. He turned to be right. There's no arguing with results. I say it's full of WIN!

Finally someone with a brain. I love you BEP

petegz28
04-12-2009, 09:29 PM
This is a fucking reach and had little to do with "National Security".

BucEyedPea
04-12-2009, 09:38 PM
This is a ****ing reach and had little to do with "National Security".

Well, you could at least give props where props are due.:grr:

petegz28
04-12-2009, 09:43 PM
Well, you could at least give props where props are due.:grr:

Props on the operation. Happy?

BucEyedPea
04-12-2009, 09:44 PM
Partly...you still had to be asked, though. Men! But it's good enough!

dirk digler
04-12-2009, 09:48 PM
What amazes me is how the White House is crowing over their "success" and not a word of recognition for the Navy, the SEALS who got it done or any support for tthe military abilities we have. Of course we have that little tidbit that the Pres didnt hold a presser to take credit....but he also didn't hold a presser to shower praise on the Rescuers...and now they start this media blitz to take credit.

If the deal had gone bad, who would he have thrown under the bus?

They are smart enough to take no credit or make any statement untill its a good outcome, then come forward. Smart. Gotta give em smart points.

LMAO

Liar and have you apologized yet for bigoted remarks?

Shortly after 3 p.m. ET, the president had issued a statement saying he was "very proud of the efforts of the U.S. military and many other departments and agencies who worked tirelessly to secure Captain Phillips’s safe recovery," and noting his continued policy view that to halt the rise of piracy the United States "must continue to work with our partners to prevent future attacks, be prepared to interdict acts of piracy and ensure that those who commit acts of piracy are held accountable for their crimes."
And he added, "I share the country’s admiration for the bravery of Captain Phillips and his selfless concern for his crew. His courage is a model for all Americans."

BigRedChief
04-12-2009, 10:22 PM
I don't think this rises to a National Security crises. But Obama was being condemned for his silence and he didn't have any leaks ( done intentionally at times) when he just felt being quiet about it was the best solution. He turned to be right. There's no arguing with results. I say it's full of WIN!
Fox and the right were all over him this weekend for "allowing" this to continue all weekend. Welllll now it comes out that he gave the military the authority to end it on Friday if needed.

Now, Fox needs to come out and say they were wrong. There was work being done behind the scenes and the military had the authority to use deadly force anytime they thought it was correct since Friday.

wild1
04-12-2009, 10:23 PM
Fox and the right were all over him this weekend for "allowing" this to continue all weekend.

examples?

wazu
04-12-2009, 10:33 PM
I'd call it a significant win. Getting warships/Seals involved, but not getting in the way or trying to micro-manage things. You can't argue with the result. Was it a national security test? To some degree, yes. Not that these individuals themselves posed any threat, but the message sent to the world upon the first piracy hijack of this kind to an American-flagged vessel is valuable.

My favorite part of this story, though, is the fact that the crew-members were able to disrupt the whole thing and basically leave the pirates negotiating from a lifeboat with only one hostage.

Gracie Dean
04-12-2009, 10:37 PM
I am betting that Obama really doesn't care about politics in this, only that it was resolved

wazu
04-12-2009, 10:40 PM
I am betting that Obama really doesn't care about politics in this, only that it was resolved

ROFL

dirk digler
04-12-2009, 10:41 PM
I'd call it a significant win. Getting warships/Seals involved, but not getting in the way or trying to micro-manage things. You can't argue with the result. Was it a national security test? To some degree, yes. Not that these individuals themselves posed any threat, but the message sent to the world upon the first piracy hijack of this kind to an American-flagged vessel is valuable.

My favorite part of this story, though, is the fact that the crew-members were able to disrupt the whole thing and basically leave the pirates negotiating from a lifeboat with only one hostage.

Wow another one with a brain and not sourgrapeitis or sandyvaginaitis.

Mr. Kotter
04-12-2009, 10:51 PM
A nice job. Props to Obama and his administration. OTOH, I wouldn't call it "significant."

I'll be much MORE impressed if he follows this up with a press conference saying we blow these son of a bitchin' asshole shit-for-brains pirates out of the fuggin' water anytime they come near another vessel in the future. Now that would be impressive.

Gracie Dean
04-12-2009, 10:57 PM
The operation to rescue Capt. Richard Phillips involved dozens of Navy SEALs, who parachuted from an aircraft into the scene near dark Saturday, landing in the ocean. The SEALs were part of a larger group of Special Operations Forces involved in the effort, according to military officials.
<snip>

Meanwhile, one of the pirates, estimated to be between 16 and 20 years old, asked to come aboard the Bainbridge to make a phone call. He had been stabbed in the hand during an altercation with the crew of the Maersk Alabama and also needed medical care. "He effectively gave himself up," said a senior military official. The Navy then allowed that pirate to speak with the others in hopes that he could persuade them to give up.
<snip>

"In the last discussion, they said 'If we don't get what we want, we will kill the captain,' " the official said.

Soon afterward, two pirates moved to one of the hatches of the lifeboat and stuck their heads out. The third pirate advanced toward the captain, and pointed his AK-47 straight at Phillips' back, the rifle touching it or inches away, the official said.

U.S. military observers believed that Phillips was about to be shot. SEAL snipers, who were positioned on a deck at the stern of the Bainbridge, an area known as the fantail, had the three pirates in their sights. The on-scene commander gave the SEAL snipers authority to fire.

"As soon as the snipers had a clear shot at the guy who had the rifle, they shot him and the other two in the hatches," said the senior military official.

A member of the Special Operations team slid down the tow line into the water and climbed aboard the lifeboat. Phillips was then put in a small craft and taken to the Bainbridge.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

splatbass
04-12-2009, 11:03 PM
I don't think that was ever in dispute. Anyone would have given that same order, use force if the opportunity presents itself to resolve without losing the hostage. It's common sense.

I hope someday he can get around to addressing other "critical national security tests", like North Korea's nuclear program, Iran's nuclear program, their president openly advocating genocide of an enture nation, the wind-down of the war on terror, blah balh blah. all that back-of-the-newspaper stuff.

All those things that pale in comparison to a couple of illiterate teenagers in a motorboat, of course.

If the hostage had been killed it is damn certain that the right would have called it a national security failure. But he is successful so it is no big deal. Funny how that works.

T-post Tom
04-12-2009, 11:03 PM
ha ROFL The AP is not a spinster of the far left.

The hostage is alive. The crew is safe. Not a single American harmed. The bag guys are dead or in custody. Yeah, its just spin. No good outcome to see here, move along.


This.

wazu
04-12-2009, 11:03 PM
I'll be much MORE impressed if he follows this up with a press conference saying we blow these son of a bitchin' asshole shit-for-brains pirates out of the fuggin' water anytime they come near another vessel in the future. Now that would be impressive.

Yes, it's always impressive when the President of the United States sounds like a drunken redneck on a power trip.

splatbass
04-12-2009, 11:05 PM
ROFL

Obama hasn't made any political statement out of this. He hasn't even made a comment.

Mr. Kotter
04-12-2009, 11:10 PM
Yes, it's always impressive when the President of the United States sounds like a drunken redneck on a power trip.

I'm paraphrasing; he can use politically correct....diplomatic language. As long as they get the point.

No Bravado necessary; say it quietly, at a news conference. Entertain no questions, and leave. You say it once, and let your actions speak for themselves.

"Walk softly, and carry a big stick." :thumb:

Peace through strength....and resolve. It's the only thing thugs/terrorists understand.

wazu
04-12-2009, 11:12 PM
Obama hasn't made any political statement out of this. He hasn't even made a comment.

Good for him. You think that means he doesn't care about the politics?

splatbass
04-12-2009, 11:15 PM
Good for him. You think that means he doesn't care about the politics?

Yes. I think if he did he would have had a press conference immediately.

BigRedChief
04-12-2009, 11:17 PM
I'm paraphrasing; he can use politically correct....diplomatic language. As long as they get the point.

No Bravado necessary; say it quietly, at a news conference. Entertain no questions, and leave. You say it once, and let your actions speak for themselves.

"Walk softly, and carry a big stick." :thumb:

Peace through strength....and resolve. It's the only thing thugs/terrorists understand.OMG! Praise for the socialist President?:hmmm:

Bowser
04-12-2009, 11:23 PM
If the hostage had been killed it is damn certain that the right would have called it a national security failure. But he is successful so it is no big deal. Funny how that works.

Indeed.

Mr. Kotter
04-12-2009, 11:53 PM
OMG! Praise for the socialist President?:hmmm:

Socialist? Nah. Don't think I've ever said that.... :shrug:


Socialistic policies, at times, well...yeah; but even W. took us down that road. :banghead:

Fruit Ninja
04-13-2009, 12:58 AM
I am glad he's home safe no doubt. They got what they deserved. Obama did things on the under as he should have. Get it done. Dont have to showboat, just do it. Though, at times i dont see anything wrong with showboating. lol

BucEyedPea
04-13-2009, 06:36 AM
Fox and the right were all over him this weekend for "allowing" this to continue all weekend. Welllll now it comes out that he gave the military the authority to end it on Friday if needed.

Now, Fox needs to come out and say they were wrong. There was work being done behind the scenes and the military had the authority to use deadly force anytime they thought it was correct since Friday.

Yeah, well they like the bull in a china shop smashing infrastructure and killing lots of innocents in the process solution because well, they're macho and tough. Of course this is to fight a handful of men using dinghies. What we need is another invasion and episode in nation building.

Radar Chief
04-13-2009, 08:02 AM
Obama hasn't made any political statement out of this. He hasn't even made a comment.

Why would he need to? He’s got a compliant media to do it for him.

patteeu
04-13-2009, 08:07 AM
ha ROFL The AP is not a spinster of the far left.

The hostage is alive. The crew is safe. Not a single American harmed. The bag guys are dead or in custody. Yeah, its just spin. No good outcome to see here, move along.

The spin is in the incredible exaggeration. Big win? Critical national security test? Major victory notched? Please.

patteeu
04-13-2009, 08:15 AM
I would think you probably could come up with some equally dismissive description of 1979, but it ruined Carter nonetheless.

It's unclear whether you're comparing this situation to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the Iranian hostage crisis, or some event that I've long forgotten. The only comparison that makes any sense would be the last one because there's nothing comparable between this incident and the two major foreign policy events of 1979 to which Jimmy Carter responded ineffectually.

patteeu
04-13-2009, 08:25 AM
I don't think this rises to a National Security crises. But Obama was being condemned for his silence and he didn't have any leaks ( done intentionally at times) when he just felt being quiet about it was the best solution. He turned to be right. There's no arguing with results. I say it's full of WIN!

There was some criticism, but there really wasn't that much, IMO. Many vocal opponents of Obama agreed that there was no need for grandstanding just as there are many of us who give him the minor credit that he is due for making this easy call. It wasn't much of a national security test, but that's not Obama's fault. To use a sports analogy, he didn't blow this routine layup and to his additional credit, he didn't try to throw down a huge, basket-risking dunk either. The OP article is ridiculous though.

patteeu
04-13-2009, 08:26 AM
Fox and the right were all over him this weekend for "allowing" this to continue all weekend. Welllll now it comes out that he gave the military the authority to end it on Friday if needed.

Now, Fox needs to come out and say they were wrong. There was work being done behind the scenes and the military had the authority to use deadly force anytime they thought it was correct since Friday.

Who is Fox?

Radar Chief
04-13-2009, 08:41 AM
Who is Fox?

Megan Fox?
In that case I would be jealous that she was “all over him".

mlyonsd
04-13-2009, 08:44 AM
There was some criticism, but there really wasn't that much, IMO. Many vocal opponents of Obama agreed that there was no need for grandstanding just as there are many of us who give him the minor credit that he is due for making this easy call. It wasn't much of a national security test, but that's not Obama's fault. To use a sports analogy, he didn't blow this routine layup and to his additional credit, he didn't try to throw down a huge, basket-risking dunk either. The OP article is ridiculous though.

You mean the "Test" Biden predicted wasn't 4 pirates in a lifeboat that was surrounded by Navy Destroyers?

Garcia Bronco
04-13-2009, 08:45 AM
LOL. "National Security Test."

patteeu
04-13-2009, 08:49 AM
You mean the "Test" Biden predicted wasn't 4 pirates in a lifeboat that was surrounded by Navy Destroyers?

LMAO

BucEyedPea
04-13-2009, 09:38 AM
There was some criticism, but there really wasn't that much, IMO.
I guess that depends on who you associate with. Another board I'm on were really dissing him for not saying anything.

Many vocal opponents of Obama agreed that there was no need for grandstanding just as there are many of us who give him the minor credit that he is due for making this easy call. It wasn't much of a national security test, but that's not Obama's fault. To use a sports analogy, he didn't blow this routine layup and to his additional credit, he didn't try to throw down a huge, basket-risking dunk either. The OP article is ridiculous though.

Just because it's a law enforcement issue, and not a national security issue, doesn't mean it only deserves minor credit. It was a very well done handling. I mean none of our guys were killed. No infrastructure blown up and the cargo still intact. That could have gone out of control.

Dave Lane
04-13-2009, 09:42 AM
Really I wouldn't have given any credit to Obama if this ended well or ended badly. It's so minor it doesn't matter. If he had failed I'm sure the right would have gone wild!

Chief Henry
04-13-2009, 02:38 PM
LOL. "National Security Test."


Exactly

Gracie Dean
04-13-2009, 09:51 PM
Yes. I think if he did he would have had a press conference immediately.

you mean like the shit eating grinning w saying we got em

RINGLEADER
04-14-2009, 08:46 AM
Oh give me a break. 4 guys in a tub with guns is a 'critical national security test'?

That is laugh out loud funny.

This.

Mojo Jojo
04-14-2009, 08:49 AM
Reading the news this morning BO went from three men in a tub to having to deal with North Korea.

Brock
04-14-2009, 08:51 AM
Is this a joke?

Cannibal
04-14-2009, 10:35 AM
If the hostage had been killed it is damn certain that the right would have called it a national security failure. But he is successful so it is no big deal. Funny how that works.

This is true. We would not be hearing the end of this right now if the Captain had been killed.

vailpass
04-14-2009, 10:45 AM
"Critical National Security Test"? ROFL OMFG LMAO

My thoughts exactly. I fear the press is playing down to this POTUS.
I realize you have to walk before you can run and am hopeful he continues to grow into the position.

Iowanian
04-14-2009, 10:46 AM
Easy there bigred...you're going to wear a blister on that pickle if you don't pace yourself.


I think the only person that deserved any blame if that guy had been killed would have been the assholes who took him hostage.

At least 4 ships were pirated yesterday. Its time to find some of these pricks in their base camps and drop some high explosives on them.

vailpass
04-14-2009, 10:49 AM
Easy there bigred...you're going to wear a blister on that pickle if you don't pace yourself.


I think the only person that deserved any blame if that guy had been killed would have been the assholes who took him hostage.

At least 4 ships were pirated yesterday. Its time to find some of these pricks in their base camps and drop some high explosives on them.


Yep. Now that they have drawn our attention it's time to take care of business.

Radar Chief
04-14-2009, 10:50 AM
This is true. We would not be hearing the end of this right now if the Captain had been killed.

ROFL (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5664803&postcount=168)

I don’t assume that the government’s reaction would’ve been any different, but the headlines sure would’ve.
Instead of the AP hailing the result as “Passing the first critical National Security test”, if Bush were still POTUS they would’ve read something like, “3 freedom fighters killed, one held hostage after Bush orders their execution” with, “News on the torture of the 4th freedom fighter expected any moment” somewhere below the first headline.

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Garcia Bronco
04-14-2009, 10:52 AM
This has nothing to do with National Security and everything to do with protecting our citizens home and abroad. You would hope every American gets this kind of treatment but they don't.

BigRedChief
04-14-2009, 10:52 AM
Easy there bigred...you're going to wear a blister on that pickle if you don't pace yourself.
Not a single word of the article or the title are mine. Strictly a copy and paste from the AP article.

Cannibal
04-14-2009, 10:57 AM
Easy there bigred...you're going to wear a blister on that pickle if you don't pace yourself.


I think the only person that deserved any blame if that guy had been killed would have been the assholes who took him hostage.

At least 4 ships were pirated yesterday. Its time to find some of these pricks in their base camps and drop some high explosives on them.

You're a reasonable conservative. Many are not. Just like many liberals are not reasonable.

ROYC75
04-14-2009, 11:16 AM
Damn glad those pirates didn't raid Greenville,KY. Yep, those Somalians are a GREAT THREAT TO AMERICANS ....Thanks OBO the Great !

This was nothing more than a military move on some idiots.

First critical test my butt, he simply did what he was suppose to do , But National Security ?

I'll give him credit for doing his job, that's it, but NATIONAL SECURITY ? :shake:

FishingRod
04-14-2009, 11:56 AM
Hey gotta give some credit when due. Props to the Navy Seals. Props to the Ship Captain and crew. Props to the Administration for not getting in the way and screwing it up. What I really want to know is, do our armed forces actually need to get permission from the commander in Chief to prevent one of our own people from being shot? If something like this needs to 1/10 that high up the food chain we are suffering from a great deal of analysis paralysis.

vailpass
04-14-2009, 12:16 PM
Hey gotta give some credit when due. Props to the Navy Seals. Props to the Ship Captain and crew. Props to the Administration for not getting in the way and screwing it up. What I really want to know is, do our armed forces actually need to get permission from the commander in Chief to prevent one of our own people from being shot? If something like this needs to 1/10 that high up the food chain we are suffering from a great deal of analysis paralysis.

Yes. On both the day of the incident and the day prior the ship's captain had requested and received approval to use deadly force if necessary. This request went through the Pentagon to the POTUS.

The captain needed prior authorization because he knew if the opportunity/need arose to fire on the kidnappers there wouldn't be time to ask. He was correct.

Three snipers perched on a bobbing ship in rough waters. Three pirates all of a sudden pop their heads up at the same time.
The captain calls "go".
3 shots.
3 kills.
1 US civilian home to his family.
Go SEALs.

BigRedChief
04-14-2009, 12:38 PM
Hey gotta give some credit when due. Props to the Navy Seals. Props to the Ship Captain and crew. Props to the Administration for not getting in the way and screwing it up. What I really want to know is, do our armed forces actually need to get permission from the commander in Chief to prevent one of our own people from being shot? If something like this needs to 1/10 that high up the food chain we are suffering from a great deal of analysis paralysis.
Yes, something like this that is international news happening in international waters shoudl be cleared with the president. If we get a chance to take them all out at once can we? thats a policy thing not a strategic one. As the president you just have to hope that the commander on the ground uses good judgement as to when to give the orders.

patteeu
04-14-2009, 12:43 PM
Easy there bigred...you're going to wear a blister on that pickle if you don't pace yourself.


I think the only person that deserved any blame if that guy had been killed would have been the assholes who took him hostage.

At least 4 ships were pirated yesterday. Its time to find some of these pricks in their base camps and drop some high explosives on them.

The Obama surrogates have been out in force explaining why we might not be able to do that. The gist of the message seems to be that a major military attack would jeopardize Obama's diplomatic outreach (i.e. apology tour) to muslims around the world. As if his outreach has accomplished anything to begin with, lol. The Iranians don't seem to want to talk about their nuclear program (much less consider slowing it down), even if we offer a more high profile American presence at the discussions. The Pakistanis are asking us to GTFO and leave our drone technology behind. The toothless diplomacy route seems to be working, but unfortunately it's not working for our side.

Simplex3
04-14-2009, 12:47 PM
A senior administration official told FOX News that Obama granted the authority on Friday and Saturday to use appropriate force to rescue Capt. Richard Phillips from a lifeboat off the Somali coast

"Appropriate force", huh? So if things had gone bad he could have claimed that was "inappropriate force". Way to hedge your bets.

Also, let's not forget the crew rescued itself before the Navy got involved.

Donger
04-14-2009, 12:55 PM
Wow. That's some headline.

Simplex3
04-14-2009, 12:58 PM
If the hostage had been killed it is damn certain that the right would have called it a national security failure. But he is successful so it is no big deal. Funny how that works.

Yes, then they would have sounded every bit as stupid as the people on the far left trumpeting Obama's "foreign policy win" after allowing North Korea to test fire a missile.

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2009, 12:58 PM
Yes, something like this that is international news happening in international waters shoudl be cleared with the president. If we get a chance to take them all out at once can we? thats a policy thing not a strategic one. As the president you just have to hope that the commander on the ground uses good judgement as to when to give the orders.

It's the distinction between responding to incidents and establishing effective policy.

What you are getting at without saying it is, what are the ROE? If the ROE require Presidential approval in other situations similar to this, we are in trouble; if OTOH, established ROE allow individual commanders in the field to make such decisions we will be fine. The former is one of the things that destroyed the Johnson administration's Vietnmam policy, and underminded any pretense of credibility of the Carter administration's dealing with the Iranian hostage situation. Presidents cannot micromanage relatively minor "incidents."

The whole problem with this incident is that anyone really considers it to be a "critical" test of national security. It's not. However, establishing an effective overall policy for dealing with similar cases is important. It becomes more important every time there is another incident.

BigRedChief
04-14-2009, 01:36 PM
It's the distinction between responding to incidents and establishing effective policy.

What you are getting at without saying it is, what are the ROE? If the ROE require Presidential approval in other situations similar to this, we are in trouble; if OTOH, established ROE allow individual commanders in the field to make such decisions we will be fine. The former is one of the things that destroyed the Johnson administration's Vietnmam policy, and underminded any pretense of credibility of the Carter administration's dealing with the Iranian hostage situation. Presidents cannot micromanage relatively minor "incidents."
I agree. It's more of a ROE thing. You set the policy and or ROE and get the hell out of the way and let the commanders on the ground take care of business.

I think presidents learned their lesson about micro managing military operations after the Jimmy Carter fiasco in Iran.

patteeu
04-14-2009, 01:52 PM
I agree. It's more of a ROE thing. You set the policy and or ROE and get the hell out of the way and let the commanders on the ground take care of business.

I think presidents learned their lesson about micro managing military operations after the Jimmy Carter fiasco in Iran.

There was just as much or more micromanagement in this case as there was in the Iranian hostage rescue fiasco.

BigRedChief
04-14-2009, 03:05 PM
There was just as much or more micromanagement in this case as there was in the Iranian hostage rescue fiasco.
How so? The reports that I read are that the commander was given the authority on Friday to shoot to kill.

patteeu
04-14-2009, 03:15 PM
How so? The reports that I read are that the commander was given the authority on Friday to shoot to kill.

Do you think the delta force operators who went into Iran in order to rescue our hostages were going to need to get Presidential permission to fire their weapons each time they encountered the enemy? Neither do I. Where did you get the idea that there was more micromanagement during that rescue attempt than during this one?

FishingRod
04-14-2009, 03:48 PM
Ok I will back off a little bit. With each new administration it may be reasonable for the commanders in the field to check in and see what the ROE are now. I am not a big fan of the POTUS but don't have an issue with how this was handled, frankly it think it is well past time that someone did something about this criminal activity. Hell even the French have had enough of this. If some of BO's fans want to pat one another on the back and call it some great foreign policy victory, enjoy it and have a good time. We have had a shortage of things to celebrate lately ride this pony for all it is worth. Now going forward the commanders in the field should be able to make the call to use deadly force to protect our countrymen when in their estimation there is a clear and present danger. I don't and did not have a big issue with letting them sit in the lifeboat for a couple of days to realize that they have no way out. I do think the nicest thing we should allow future hostage takers to do is surrender and be tried for their crimes. I would even be willing to let them have a paddle and a 5 minute head start to try and get away in exchange for the release of the hostages. I think we should in clear unambiguous language let it be known that should any vessel in the area approach a ship flying our flag, it will be considered hostile and may be fired upon. We might fire a warning shot if we are feeling nice and we may not.