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HonestChieffan
04-13-2009, 12:38 PM
Sounds like a lot are expected at Liberty Memorial and in Lees Summit.

Bet it gets no press regardless.

KC native
04-13-2009, 12:39 PM
No press? Faux has been pushing these teabag parties for at least a week.

Taco John
04-13-2009, 01:05 PM
It's nice to see McCain voters getting on board with the Tea Party idea...


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patteeu
04-13-2009, 01:29 PM
You must be expecting huge crowds if you're thinking about showing up 24 hours in advance. If I go, I'll wait until Wednesday and take my chances at the door. ;)

Let's come up with some good sign ideas. I like mikey's "Chains You Can Believe In" for a sign length slogan that's fairly clever.

HonestChieffan
04-13-2009, 01:32 PM
Ooops...no not gonna go a day ahead....

patteeu
04-13-2009, 01:33 PM
It's nice to see McCain voters getting on board with the Tea Party idea...

If the Ron Paul voters don't show up, no one will notice, but you guys ought to come on out anyway. What you lack in numbers, you make up for in passion and arrogance. Bring your phone booth if you want to have a private meetup while you're there.

Jenson71
04-13-2009, 01:44 PM
Take pictures and post them here. I will pos. rep you for them. Also write a nice summary of it. I will casino cash for that.

SBK
04-13-2009, 02:34 PM
I'm heading down to the Atlanta tea party on Wednesday. I might have to make a 'chains you can believe in' poster, that's a good idea.

Taco John
04-13-2009, 02:47 PM
If the Ron Paul voters don't show up, no one will notice, but you guys ought to come on out anyway.


That's what you said about McCain not having the Ron Paul voters come November. How'd that work out for McCain?

Jenson71
04-13-2009, 02:48 PM
Whadayaknow...Krugman's got a piece on the Republican party and tea parties in the Times today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/13/opinion/13krugman.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

"Republicans have become embarrassing to watch. And it doesn’t feel right to make fun of crazy people."

". . . it [still] behooves us to look closely at the state of what is, after all, one of our nation’s two great political parties."

"These parties — antitaxation demonstrations that are supposed to evoke the memory of the Boston Tea Party and the American Revolution — have been the subject of considerable mockery, and rightly so.

But everything that critics mock about these parties has long been standard practice within the Republican Party.

Thus, President Obama is being called a “socialist” who seeks to destroy capitalism. Why? Because he wants to raise the tax rate on the highest-income Americans back to, um, about 10 percentage points less than it was for most of the Reagan administration. Bizarre."

"They’re AstroTurf (fake grass roots) events, manufactured by the usual suspects. In particular, a key role is being played by FreedomWorks, an organization run by Richard Armey, the former House majority leader, and supported by the usual group of right-wing billionaires. And the parties are, of course, being promoted heavily by Fox News."

SBK
04-13-2009, 02:50 PM
Whadayaknow...Krugman's got a piece on the Republican party and tea parties in the Times today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/13/opinion/13krugman.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

"Republicans have become embarrassing to watch. And it doesn’t feel right to make fun of crazy people."

". . . it [still] behooves us to look closely at the state of what is, after all, one of our nation’s two great political parties."

"These parties — antitaxation demonstrations that are supposed to evoke the memory of the Boston Tea Party and the American Revolution — have been the subject of considerable mockery, and rightly so.

But everything that critics mock about these parties has long been standard practice within the Republican Party.

Thus, President Obama is being called a “socialist” who seeks to destroy capitalism. Why? Because he wants to raise the tax rate on the highest-income Americans back to, um, about 10 percentage points less than it was for most of the Reagan administration. Bizarre."

"They’re AstroTurf (fake grass roots) events, manufactured by the usual suspects. In particular, a key role is being played by FreedomWorks, an organization run by Richard Armey, the former House majority leader, and supported by the usual group of right-wing billionaires. And the parties are, of course, being promoted heavily by Fox News."

Paul Krugman, the voice of reason. :LOL:

Chiefshrink
04-13-2009, 02:52 PM
Will be on the State Capital steps here in Denver on Wed in my Sherman Tank:D

Iowanian
04-13-2009, 02:59 PM
I'll be too busy, you know....working.

tooge
04-13-2009, 03:14 PM
Will this be anything like woodstock, rockfest, lollapalooza? I was thinking of a big blanket, a grill and some ribs, a cooler full of cold beers, shorts, flip flops, and a t shirt. What else do I need to bring?

Jenson71
04-13-2009, 03:15 PM
Will this be anything like woodstock, rockfest, lollapalooza? I was thinking of a big blanket, a grill and some ribs, a cooler full of cold beers, shorts, flip flops, and a t shirt. What else do I need to bring?

Bring your guns.

tooge
04-13-2009, 03:17 PM
Bring your guns.

Cool, this thing sounds right up my alley.

Jenson71
04-13-2009, 03:22 PM
Do Rush, Lauren Ingraham, and Hannity talk about the tea parties?

Do you guys know the Tea Party song?

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Learn it.Love it.Live it.

Adept Havelock
04-13-2009, 03:46 PM
Thus, President Obama is being called a “socialist” who seeks to destroy capitalism. Why? Because he wants to raise the tax rate on the highest-income Americans back to, um, about 10 percentage points less than it was for most of the Reagan administration. Bizarre."


ROFL

BucEyedPea
04-13-2009, 03:51 PM
If the Ron Paul voters don't show up, no one will notice, but you guys ought to come on out anyway. What you lack in numbers, you make up for in passion and arrogance. Bring your phone booth if you want to have a private meetup while you're there.
Look who's talking.

BucEyedPea
04-13-2009, 03:52 PM
Bring your guns.

We will if you come. *snicker*



jk jens

Iowanian
04-13-2009, 03:58 PM
Jenson,

You're surely going to one aren't you? I mean, so you have an opportunity to understand the plight of others?

patteeu
04-13-2009, 04:52 PM
That's what you said about McCain not having the Ron Paul voters come November. How'd that work out for McCain?

I think Ron Paul's November results speak for themselves. But I think the more accurate version of what I said was that Ron Paul voters, and all other non-Obama voters, should come out in November and vote for John McCain.

patteeu
04-13-2009, 04:57 PM
Thus, President Obama is being called a “socialist” who seeks to destroy capitalism. Why? Because he wants to raise the tax rate on the highest-income Americans back to, um, about 10 percentage points less than it was for most of the Reagan administration. Bizarre."

Does Krugman point out that Obama isn't interested in restoring any of the many tax deductions (some would call them loopholes or tax shelters) that the rich had available to them during that same period during the Reagan administration (before the grand bargain that did away with the shelters in return for rates about 20% LOWER than they will be if Obama has his way)? Of course he doesn't.

patteeu
04-13-2009, 04:58 PM
I'll be too busy, you know....working.

I think the one at Liberty Memorial in KC is either starting at 4:00pm or will at least continue on through the evening.

patteeu
04-13-2009, 04:59 PM
Will this be anything like woodstock, rockfest, lollapalooza? I was thinking of a big blanket, a grill and some ribs, a cooler full of cold beers, shorts, flip flops, and a t shirt. What else do I need to bring?

Can I hang out with you?

Rain Man
04-13-2009, 05:04 PM
The original Tea Party wasn't a tax protest. It was an Indian attack.

Reaper16
04-13-2009, 05:12 PM
I think the one at Liberty Memorial in KC is either starting at 4:00pm or will at least continue on through the evening.
He's Iowanian, not KansasCitian.

BucEyedPea
04-13-2009, 05:18 PM
The original Tea Party wasn't a tax protest. It was an Indian attack.

I'm dressing up as Pocahontas.

Thig Lyfe
04-13-2009, 05:20 PM
Tea party? Sounds gay.

BucEyedPea
04-13-2009, 05:23 PM
Tea party? Sounds gay.

Not this kind. That's the British kind of Tea Potty!

Jenson71
04-13-2009, 06:28 PM
Jenson,

You're surely going to one aren't you? I mean, so you have an opportunity to understand the plight of others?

I would definitely like to go to one, but I certainly do not hold the same political opinions as the majority of the tea people seem to.

jjjayb
04-13-2009, 06:53 PM
I'd go if I wasn't working. :cuss:

Iowanian
04-13-2009, 07:12 PM
He's Iowanian, not KansasCitian.

More like, "he's got a deadline and a client who asked him to put in a shitload more hours for them and doesn't have time to go pretend to picket"....but your geography is admirable.

whatsmynameagain
04-13-2009, 09:16 PM
so why the tea party? protesting tax increases on the wealthy? i bet the majority of the folks getting teabagged tomorrow make less than 6 figures. "why are you raising taxes on the wealthy, i make 30k a year and drive a datsun, i hate these fucking commie libs, imma get my gun and teabag my brother. you are all socialists, spreading the wealth marxists, lost the election and my butthole hurts so bad, teabag it please!!!!"
Posted via Mobile Device

Ultra Peanut
04-13-2009, 09:23 PM
KEEP IT ROLLIN' ALONG

http://j.photos.cx/astroturf-af7.gif

whatsmynameagain
04-13-2009, 09:23 PM
also, i guarantee there will be teabags getting played with at the liberty memorial lolz
Posted via Mobile Device

wazu
04-13-2009, 09:51 PM
so why the tea party? protesting tax increases on the wealthy?

I'm not planning to attend, but I think the protest is on taxes in general, especially considering that Obama's massive surge of government spending will lock us all into tax hell for generations to come.

SBK
04-13-2009, 10:43 PM
I think people are going to paint tea parties as lashing out at Obama, but I think they're way more about Congress and overspending than they are about Obama.

Taco John
04-13-2009, 10:59 PM
I think Ron Paul's November results speak for themselves. But I think the more accurate version of what I said was that Ron Paul voters, and all other non-Obama voters, should come out in November and vote for John McCain.

You had said that at one time you were worried that enough votes would be funnelled away from the Republican candidate, but were no longer worried about it - and that McCain wouldn't need Ron Paul (or perhaps Bob Barr voters to win). I'd go looking for the exact quote if it mattered all that much.

Taco John
04-13-2009, 11:00 PM
KEEP IT ROLLIN' ALONG

http://j.photos.cx/astroturf-af7.gif


I think you're right in your assessment.

Of course, astroturfing is what got Obama elected, so there is something to be said for it.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-13-2009, 11:10 PM
End the Fed is the rallying call! The bankers are doing a fine job of looting the country last through dubilya and currently through barky.

jjjayb
04-14-2009, 02:57 AM
so why the tea party? protesting tax increases on the wealthy? i bet the majority of the folks getting teabagged tomorrow make less than 6 figures. "why are you raising taxes on the wealthy, i make 30k a year and drive a datsun, i hate these ****ing commie libs, imma get my gun and teabag my brother. you are all socialists, spreading the wealth marxists, lost the election and my butthole hurts so bad, teabag it please!!!!"
Posted via Mobile Device

I'd go to protest paying too much taxes all together. Sales tax, payroll tax, property tax, sin tax, fat tax, gas tax, cigarette tax. etc. etc. The rich aren't the only ones paying too much taxes. I'd also go to protest politicians spending our money like it grows on trees. It would be nice to see them spend it like it was money they had to work their ass off for.

Saggysack
04-14-2009, 05:15 AM
I prefer black teas. Nothing boxed like lipton though. That crap is only dust in a bag. I pay $19 for a pound of a nice blend of teas from India, China and Ceylon(Sri Lanka). Drink about 3/4gal to a gallon a day.

Green teas I can live without. Just don't like the flavor. White teas are the same. And no milk, sugar or other fruity/flower flavorings in my tea either.

If it isn't oxidized, it isn't proper in my eyes. Once you go black...

patteeu
04-14-2009, 06:43 AM
so why the tea party? protesting tax increases on the wealthy? i bet the majority of the folks getting teabagged tomorrow make less than 6 figures. "why are you raising taxes on the wealthy, i make 30k a year and drive a datsun, i hate these ****ing commie libs, imma get my gun and teabag my brother. you are all socialists, spreading the wealth marxists, lost the election and my butthole hurts so bad, teabag it please!!!!"
Posted via Mobile Device

It must be hard to put together coherent messages on mobile devices with their tiny screens and all.

patteeu
04-14-2009, 06:45 AM
I think people are going to paint tea parties as lashing out at Obama, but I think they're way more about Congress and overspending than they are about Obama.

I don't know how you can separate the two. Congress marches to Obama's massively-overspending tune these days.

patteeu
04-14-2009, 06:48 AM
You had said that at one time you were worried that enough votes would be funnelled away from the Republican candidate, but were no longer worried about it - and that McCain wouldn't need Ron Paul (or perhaps Bob Barr voters to win). I'd go looking for the exact quote if it mattered all that much.

I don't remember that, but you're right, it doesn't matter much.

mlyonsd
04-14-2009, 06:59 AM
so why the tea party? protesting tax increases on the wealthy? i bet the majority of the folks getting teabagged tomorrow make less than 6 figures. "why are you raising taxes on the wealthy, i make 30k a year and drive a datsun, i hate these ****ing commie libs, imma get my gun and teabag my brother. you are all socialists, spreading the wealth marxists, lost the election and my butthole hurts so bad, teabag it please!!!!"
Posted via Mobile Device

There's your poster child of why an elevated income tax is not good for the country. It just breeds a class warfare society where some feel they have a fundamental and moral right to the fruits another receives for hard work. It will eventually break us.

HonestChieffan
04-14-2009, 07:06 AM
There's your poster child of why an elevated income tax is not good for the country. It just breeds a class warfare society where some feel they have a fundamental and moral right to the fruits another receives for hard work. It will eventually break us.

The beauty of the teaparty idea will be that we will see a cross section not defined by polar opposites and the destructive level of partisan behavior we see in Washington now. The protest is against more taxes from any source not a protest designed to seperate but to bring us all together to oppose government over spending, over taxing, and being in general a bunch of frauds.

whatsmynameagain
04-14-2009, 07:15 AM
There's your poster child of why an elevated income tax is not good for the country. It just breeds a class warfare society where some feel they have a fundamental and moral right to the fruits another receives for hard work. It will eventually break us.
hey dummy, i cant wait to be in the top tax bracket. i work my ass off. im proud to say that this will be the year, at age 25, that i make over six figures w/o college education. im looking foward to paying higher taxes, cant fucking wait. it has nothing to do with class warfare, more like slavery. 5% of our population controls 90% of the wealth. who really has the power?
Posted via Mobile Device

whatsmynameagain
04-14-2009, 07:18 AM
It must be hard to put together coherent messages on mobile devices with their tiny screens and all.

dude, i was quoting you...
Posted via Mobile Device

Iowanian
04-14-2009, 07:22 AM
I'd think someone who makes "6 figures" could afford to purchase a clue.

blaise
04-14-2009, 07:35 AM
hey dummy, i cant wait to be in the top tax bracket. i work my ass off. im proud to say that this will be the year, at age 25, that i make over six figures w/o college education. im looking foward to paying higher taxes, cant ****ing wait. it has nothing to do with class warfare, more like slavery. 5% of our population controls 90% of the wealth. who really has the power?
Posted via Mobile Device

Maybe you can buy a shift key.

BigRedChief
04-14-2009, 07:38 AM
This is nothing more than a Fox news manufactured "event". Shameless.

Do they even realize that they are protesting the Bush tax policies? That they are protesting a future proposal that would raise the tax rate of the wealthiest americans to 10% below the tax rates that were in place during the time their hero Ronald Regan was in office?

The majority of Americans are not going to buy that concept.

whatsmynameagain
04-14-2009, 07:39 AM
Maybe you can buy a shift key.

i dont own a shift so what would i use a shift key for?

JUST BOUGHT A COUPLE NICE CAPS ON SATURDAY, WHADDAYA THUNK?
Posted via Mobile Device

whatsmynameagain
04-14-2009, 07:41 AM
This is nothing more than a Fox news manufactured "event". Shameless.

Do they even realize that they are protesting the Bush tax policies? That they are protesting a future proposal that would raise the tax rate of the wealthiest americans to 10% below the tax rates that were in place during the time their hero Ronald Regan was in office?

reality is tough for some, but an invisible man is always watching....
Posted via Mobile Device

blaise
04-14-2009, 07:47 AM
i dont own a shift so what would i use a shift key for?

JUST BOUGHT A COUPLE NICE CAPS ON SATURDAY, WHADDAYA THUNK?
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm glad you and I seem to disagree on politics because you seem to be a brain dead jackass.

HonestChieffan
04-14-2009, 07:55 AM
This is nothing more than a Fox news manufactured "event". Shameless.

Do they even realize that they are protesting the Bush tax policies? That they are protesting a future proposal that would raise the tax rate of the wealthiest americans to 10% below the tax rates that were in place during the time their hero Ronald Regan was in office?

The majority of Americans are not going to buy that concept.

If you believe fox started this you are woefully un informed. And based on what you say the issue/focus is, your uninformed level is way higher than than woefully.

whatsmynameagain
04-14-2009, 07:55 AM
I'm glad you and I seem to disagree on politics because you seem to be a brain dead jackass.

are you kidding? u made a quip about a shift key, you petty bitch.
Posted via Mobile Device

whatsmynameagain
04-14-2009, 07:58 AM
If you believe fox started this you are woefully un informed. And based on what you say the issue/focus is, your uninformed level is way higher than than woefully.

doesnt matter where or who started it. know your rights!
Posted via Mobile Device

Cannibal
04-14-2009, 08:08 AM
Kinda strange... the only tax I am aware of that has actually been increased since Obama took office is on cigarettes. Must be a lot of pissed of Right Wing smokers out there.

Where were these tea parties while Bush was in office?

patteeu
04-14-2009, 08:15 AM
This is nothing more than a Fox news manufactured "event". Shameless.

Do they even realize that they are protesting the Bush tax policies? That they are protesting a future proposal that would raise the tax rate of the wealthiest americans to 10% below the tax rates that were in place during the time their hero Ronald Regan was in office?

The majority of Americans are not going to buy that concept.

Obama will raise the top rate to a level that is more than 20% HIGHER than when Reagan left office.

To associate the higher rates that existed early in the Reagan administration with the Reagan brand is dishonestly misleading. One of the major accomplishments of the Reagan administration was to reduce those rates over the course of his two terms in office.

Furthermore, as a part of reducing top rates to 28% (compared to the current 35% or the Obama-proposed 39%), Reagan and his partners in Congress eliminated a large number of deductions, loopholes, and shelters that had previously been available to top bracket earners. Over time, Bush I, Clinton, and now Obama have reneged on that deal as they raise the rates without replacing the deductions.

patteeu
04-14-2009, 08:19 AM
Kinda strange... the only tax I am aware of that has actually been increased since Obama took office is on cigarettes. Must be a lot of pissed of Right Wing smokers out there.

Where were these tea parties while Bush was in office?

The people who opposed Bush, don't generally oppose high taxes. And when they complained about big spending and big deficits, they were mostly faking it.

blaise
04-14-2009, 08:23 AM
These tea parties are ridiculous. Only liberals should be allowed to parade around like idiots and participate in obnoxious protests.

BigRedChief
04-14-2009, 08:26 AM
If you believe fox started this you are woefully un informed. And based on what you say the issue/focus is, your uninformed level is way higher than than woefully.
I know who benefited from the Bush tax cuts. If you made $10 million or more a year, don't worry the middle classs will pick up your taxes for you or we will borrow the money to give to the rich.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/04/05/business/tax.chart.gif

KILLER_CLOWN
04-14-2009, 08:30 AM
These tea parties are ridiculous. Only liberals should be allowed to parade around like idiots and participate in obnoxious protests.

A fine example of the Neo-Nazi movement, Mao worship, or the Stalin suckup. No matter what happens with our government we shouldn't behave in a manner that is Truly American right? To dissent is to have a voice, what a dumbass statement.

HonestChieffan
04-14-2009, 08:30 AM
The protest issue is not, never has been, and wont be about Bush or Obama. Why is that so difficult to understand? Taxes are not partisan, they hit everyone.

BigRedChief
04-14-2009, 08:32 AM
The protest issue is not, never has been, and wont be about Bush or Obama. Why is that so difficult to understand? Taxes are not partisan, they hit everyone.
ROFL yeah sure there is no partisanship involved in this....taxes haven't went up and are not going up for another 2 years on the wealthiest Americans.

We just had an election. He said he was going to raise the tax rate on the wealthiest Americans from 36% to 39%. We voted and a clear majority voted for him and that policy.

Whats your problem with a president doing whatthey promised in a political campaign?

Cannibal
04-14-2009, 08:34 AM
The people who opposed Bush, don't generally oppose high taxes. And when they complained about big spending and big deficits, they were mostly faking it.

The point is that taxes have not gone up. If taxes haven't changed, why did we not see this outrage 3 years ago?

KILLER_CLOWN
04-14-2009, 08:36 AM
The people who opposed Bush, don't generally oppose high taxes. And when they complained about big spending and big deficits, they were mostly faking it.

Spoken like a true neocon, and 100% false.

stevieray
04-14-2009, 08:37 AM
ROFL yeah sure there is no partisanship involved in this....Why do you even care? You started a thread about going to see Obama....your condescending us against them mantra is old and played out.

and where is your faux outrage about keeping troops in Iraq? continuing secret surveillance?

uh huh.

It's about spending..putting our children in debt..making US work for the government, not the the other way around.

blaise
04-14-2009, 08:37 AM
A fine example of the Neo-Nazi movement, Mao worship, or the Stalin suckup. No matter what happens with our government we shouldn't behave in a manner that is Truly American right? To dissent is to have a voice, what a dumbass statement.

Almost as dumb as yours. My point was that there's a lot of liberals that seem to be ridiculing these tea parties as juvenile while seemingly forgetting all the protests that have been going on for the last 8 years.
I don't remember saying you couldn't dissent, but maybe it was all over your head.

patteeu
04-14-2009, 08:43 AM
I know who benefited from the Bush tax cuts. If you made $10 million or more a year, don't worry the middle classs will pick up your taxes for you or we will borrow the money to give to the rich.

The people who benefitted the most from the Bush tax cuts were those lower income people who became non-taxpayers as a result of them. It was one of Bush's black marks.

patteeu
04-14-2009, 08:46 AM
The point is that taxes have not gone up. If taxes haven't changed, why did we not see this outrage 3 years ago?

3 years ago we didn't have a POTUS or a Congress who were salivating over tax increases. Today we do. What's so hard to understand about that?

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 08:47 AM
The protest issue is not, never has been, and wont be about Bush or Obama. Why is that so difficult to understand? Taxes are not partisan, they hit everyone.

Are you really this dumb and naive?

patteeu
04-14-2009, 08:49 AM
Spoken like a true neocon, and 100% false.

No, 100% true. I used the word "generally" to imply that I wasn't talking about EVERY SINGLE PERSON who opposed Bush but instead just the vast majority. I grant that there is a tiny sliver of people who opposed Bush from the Ron Paul, low tax, financially responsible side.

HonestChieffan
04-14-2009, 08:51 AM
ROFL yeah sure there is no partisanship involved in this....taxes haven't went up and are not going up for another 2 years on the wealthiest Americans.

We just had an election. He said he was going to raise the tax rate on the wealthiest Americans from 36% to 39%. We voted and a clear majority voted for him and that policy.

Whats your problem with a president doing whatthey promised in a political campaign?

People opposed to taxes....not just increases...taxes of all kinds Did'nt you see how many local taxes there are in KC that impact everyone? Its not about Republicans or Democrats.

Its a tax thing, not a party thing. But that is clearly out of your scope of understanding.

BigRedChief
04-14-2009, 08:59 AM
Its a tax thing, not a party thing. But that is clearly out of your scope of understanding.
And luckily out of the intellectual grasp of the vast majority of Americans. Enjoy your 25%-30% neo-con base because with ideas like giving a $4 trillion tax cut in which 90% of the money will go to the top 10% wealthiest Americans is not going to improve your #'s.

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 09:06 AM
Its a tax thing, not a party thing. But that is clearly out of your scope of understanding.

That is why it is funded\organized in part by right-wing fringe groups. God you're dumb.

HonestChieffan
04-14-2009, 09:11 AM
That is why is funded\organized in part by right-wing fringe groups. God you're dumb.

Funded? Who do you say is funding anything....there is no "fund".

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 09:15 AM
Funded? Who do you say is funding anything....there is no "fund".

Who do you think is paying for all the press and advertising?

the principle organizers of the local events are actually the lobbyist-run think tanks Americans for Prosperity and Freedom Works. The two groups are heavily staffed and well funded, and are providing all the logistical and public relations work necessary for planning coast-to-coast protests:– Freedom Works staffers coordinate conference calls among protesters, contacting conservative activists to give them “sign ideas, sample press releases, and a map of events around the country.”
– Freedom Works staffers apparently moved to “take over” the planning of local events in Florida.
– Freedom Works provides how-to guides for delivering a “clear message” to the public and media.
– Freedom Works has several domain addresses — some of them made to look like they were set up by amateurs — to promote the protests.
– Americans for Prosperity is writing press releases and planning the events in New Jersey, Arizona, New Hampshire, Missouri, Kansas, and several other states.
This type of corporate ‘astroturfing‘ is nothing new to either organization. While working to promote Social Security privatization, Freedom Works was caught planting one of its operatives as a “single mom” to ask questions to President Bush in a town hall on the subject. Last year, the Wall Street Journal exposed Freedom Works for similarly building “amateur-looking” websites to promote the lobbying interests of Dick Armey, the former Republican Majority Leader who now leads Freedom Works and is a lobbyist for the firm DLA Piper.

Americans for Prosperity is run by Tim Phillips, who was Ralph Reed’s former partner in the lobbying firm Century Strategies. The group is funded by Koch family foundations — a family whose wealth is derived from the oil industry. Indeed Americans for Prosperity has coordinated pro-drilling ‘grassroots‘ events around the country.

Duck Dog
04-14-2009, 09:21 AM
hey dummy, i cant wait to be in the top tax bracket. i work my ass off. im proud to say that this will be the year, at age 25, that i make over six figures w/o college education. im looking foward to paying higher taxes, cant ****ing wait. it has nothing to do with class warfare, more like slavery. 5% of our population controls 90% of the wealth. who really has the power?
Posted via Mobile Device


Riiiight. It's kinda like those who talk about having a big dick. If you really had one, you wouldn't have to tell everyone about it.

HonestChieffan
04-14-2009, 09:24 AM
God loves you Dirk. You find some oddball allegation and spend zero effort to look at who is organizing these tea parties. I do enjoy it watching you spin out of control knowing you are bright enough to come back down to earth in time. I cannot believe you didnt find a reference to Fox news, neo nazis, and some other groups....

Tomorrow when there are crowds of people representing all races, incomes, and political parties, then what will you say?

Im even more confused by how anyone can be so closed minded or so partisan that you see evil and such in a protest over taxes that is not, never has been and should not be aligned by party...party vs party is not the issue..its people tired of excessive taxes...not fed taxes...all taxes. First was BRC who clearly has a stake in the ground that all issues must be partisan...and now you. I dont understand that.

Cannibal
04-14-2009, 09:25 AM
3 years ago we didn't have a POTUS or a Congress who were salivating over tax increases. Today we do. What's so hard to understand about that?

So these people were completely fine with "high" taxes with a Republican in office. But feel the exact same tax rates are worthy of protest with a Democrat in office. I kinda thought that's what it was about. Thank you very much for clearing that up for me.

Duck Dog
04-14-2009, 09:25 AM
I think liberals are getting a little defensive. They aren't used to seeing young Republicans stepping all over their turf.

Yeah, yeah, I know it's grassroots if it's liberals and astro turf if it's Republicans.

HonestChieffan
04-14-2009, 09:34 AM
Its ok for a liberal to not like paying high property taxes, see the school boards blow money on garbage, oppose taxes that hit everyone...sales taxes, hotel taxes, entertainment taxes, taxes on top of taxes.....

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 09:34 AM
God loves you Dirk. You find some oddball allegation and spend zero effort to look at who is organizing these tea parties. I do enjoy it watching you spin out of control knowing you are bright enough to come back down to earth in time. I cannot believe you didnt find a reference to Fox news, neo nazis, and some other groups....

Tomorrow when there are crowds of people representing all races, incomes, and political parties, then what will you say?

Im even more confused by how anyone can be so closed minded or so partisan that you see evil and such in a protest over taxes that is not, never has been and should not be aligned by party...party vs party is not the issue..its people tired of excessive taxes...not fed taxes...all taxes. First was BRC who clearly has a stake in the ground that all issues must be partisan...and now you. I dont understand that.

This isn't some oddball allegation it is a fact that these fringe right-wing groups are organizing and funding some of this.

And honestly I don't care that they are part of this and I could care less about the tea parties just don't come on here and spout some nonsense that this isn't about party or Obama's policies because that is retarded.

whatsmynameagain
04-14-2009, 09:37 AM
Riiiight. It's kinda like those who talk about having a big dick. If you really had one, you wouldn't have to tell everyone about it.

i have no reason to lie, but if you pay the postage, ill send u a copy of my 2010 tax return. address? or will you duck, dog?
Posted via Mobile Device

Cannibal
04-14-2009, 09:38 AM
I've said it before. Let eliminate taxes and everything they provide, including the entire military, weapons, ships, aircraft, nukes, courts, police, fire, ems, roads, infrastructure etc. Then we won't have a tax burden.

HonestChieffan
04-14-2009, 09:39 AM
I dont care for the use of the word retarded.

That aside, Ill let you consider that on your own, let me try to understand.

You are convinced that people who are feeling over burdened by taxes only fall into a republican or conservative label and that is why you are making this a partisan issue? You have a democrat congressman who voted for every spending increase he could. You have a democrat US senator who voted against them.

That said, how can a democrat be opposed to spending increases taht will lead to tax increases and still be a democrat?

Maybe its because taxes are non partisan, we lll pay them and they hit every income group and every social strata...

Brock
04-14-2009, 09:40 AM
i have no reason to lie, but if you pay the postage, ill send u a copy of my 2010 tax return. address? or will you duck, dog?
Posted via Mobile Device

Just post a picture of it.

banyon
04-14-2009, 09:45 AM
I dont care for the use of the word retarded.

That aside, Ill let you consider that on your own, let me try to understand.

...

Yeah, this push back on your use of that slur by pretending that others are just oversensitive to language is working out really well for you.

HonestChieffan
04-14-2009, 09:52 AM
Yeah, this push back on your use of that slur by pretending that others are just oversensitive to language is working out really well for you.

That is not the point. I don't feel a need to explain the point either.

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 09:52 AM
I dont care for the use of the word retarded.

That aside, Ill let you consider that on your own, let me try to understand.

You are convinced that people who are feeling over burdened by taxes only fall into a republican or conservative label and that is why you are making this a partisan issue? You have a democrat congressman who voted for every spending increase he could. You have a democrat US senator who voted against them.

That said, how can a democrat be opposed to spending increases taht will lead to tax increases and still be a democrat?

Maybe its because taxes are non partisan, we lll pay them and they hit every income group and every social strata...

Are you retarded because you are acting like it?

There is alot of reasons why I think this has to do with party or Obama. Maybe it is the funny timing of it all, maybe because Fox News is promoting the heck out of it, or maybe it is because right-wing groups are organizing it.

But I guess those aren't valid reasons and I am just a skeptic.

Cannibal
04-14-2009, 09:55 AM
If they get a lot of crazy kooks out there like they had during the campaign, it will backfire on the Republicans.

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 09:58 AM
So these people were completely fine with "high" taxes with a Republican in office. But feel the exact same tax rates are worthy of protest with a Democrat in office. I kinda thought that's what it was about. Thank you very much for clearing that up for me.

LMAO

Pretty much

HonestChieffan
04-14-2009, 10:04 AM
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=112875499027114938790.0004647d9f61bab744fd4&ll=38.272689,-96.679687&spn=27.495109,57.128906&z=4&source=embed

Looks like its a bit more broad than some of you want to admit.

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 10:14 AM
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=112875499027114938790.0004647d9f61bab744fd4&ll=38.272689,-96.679687&spn=27.495109,57.128906&z=4&source=embed

Looks like its a bit more broad than some of you want to admit.

I never said it wasn't going to be broad all I said was it was naive to think this isn't about party or Obama.

I am sure this will work out as well as the anti-Iraq war protests did.

banyon
04-14-2009, 10:16 AM
That is not the point. I don't feel a need to explain the point either.

uh, huh. Your credibility on that is totally unimpeachable.

whatsmynameagain
04-14-2009, 10:18 AM
Just post a picture of it.

i can do that as well but id rather give him a HARD copy. especially since he's into validating big dick claims by checking them out himself =)

and the immediate response would be photoshop if i posted it...
Posted via Mobile Device

vailpass
04-14-2009, 10:25 AM
i can do that as well but id rather give him a HARD copy. especially since he's into validating big dick claims by checking them out himself =)

and the immediate response would be photoshop if i posted it...
Posted via Mobile Device

Real gangsta niggas dont run they mouth cuz real gangsta ass niggas know they got it.

HonestChieffan
04-14-2009, 10:29 AM
uh, huh. Your credibility on that is totally unimpeachable.

I dont need to prove something that personal to some idiot on a forum.

SBK
04-14-2009, 10:33 AM
People sure get their panties in a bunch when something they fear starts to mobilize.

banyon
04-14-2009, 10:38 AM
People sure get their panties in a bunch when something they fear starts to mobilize.

if this mobilization is less than 10% of comparable Iraq War protests, is it a failure? If not, how small of a turnout would you consider a failed mobilization?

banyon
04-14-2009, 10:39 AM
I dont need to prove something that personal to some idiot on a forum.

Yeah, you showed me.

mlyonsd
04-14-2009, 10:44 AM
if this mobilization is less than 10% of comparable Iraq War protests, is it a failure? If not, how small of a turnout would you consider a failed mobilization?

The real answer to that won't be known until Nov. 2010.

Baby Lee
04-14-2009, 10:45 AM
I've said it before. Let eliminate taxes and everything they provide, including the entire military, weapons, ships, aircraft, nukes, courts, police, fire, ems, roads, infrastructure etc. Then we won't have a tax burden.

Noticed you left 'spreading the wealth around' off your otherwise impeccable list.

Hard to believe you'd forget such an important and integral duty of government.

Radar Chief
04-14-2009, 10:46 AM
if this mobilization is less than 10% of comparable Iraq War protests, is it a failure? If not, how small of a turnout would you consider a failed mobilization?

Why does it matter? I’ve read here that it’s fake before it even happens. :shrug:

SBK
04-14-2009, 10:47 AM
if this mobilization is less than 10% of comparable Iraq War protests, is it a failure? If not, how small of a turnout would you consider a failed mobilization?

Keyword: Starts

Mobilizing now doesn't matter, mobilizing at the ballot box is what matters.

These things started popping up after this video was made:
<object width="425" height="344">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bEZB4taSEoA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

This has nothing to do with any specific candidate, it has to do with the government spending out of control. It's gone on for far too long, especially over the last 6-8 months or so. It's out of control, and it's long past time for the power to return to the people, and away from our non-representatives. ;)

whatsmynameagain
04-14-2009, 10:47 AM
Real gangsta niggas dont run they mouth cuz real gangsta ass niggas know they got it.

i aint got it yet, hence 2010 return.... im just excited to be in the position im in with the economic downturn. im in the freight industry and saw my portfolio gain 50% last month and feb is always horrible. my own business is outperforming last years numbers by over 100%. i was expecting this to be a shitty year. the main point of that post had more to do with making more money and paying more taxes and those taxes being the least of my worries. i think most of u missed the point and would rather try to discredit someone. people want to turn it into a cock contest here because thats what they are more interested in.

i can only hope to get to a point where im paying over 50k in taxes yearly. i think most will agree
Posted via Mobile Device

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 10:49 AM
The real answer to that won't be known until Nov. 2010.

Alot will happen between now and then. The whole economy might be completely turned around by then.

SBK
04-14-2009, 10:50 AM
i aint got it yet, hence 2010 return.... im just excited to be in the position im in with the economic downturn. im in the freight industry and saw my portfolio gain 50% last month and feb is always horrible. my own business is outperforming last years numbers by over 100%. i was expecting this to be a shitty year. the main point of that post had more to do with making more money and paying more taxes and those taxes being the least of my worries. i think most of u missed the point and would rather try to discredit someone. people want to turn it into a cock contest here because thats what they are more interested in.

i can only hope to get to a point where im paying over 50k in taxes yearly. i think most will agree
Posted via Mobile Device

Talk about a backwards view of things.

mlyonsd
04-14-2009, 11:00 AM
Alot will happen between now and then. The whole economy might be completely turned around by then.

I didn't say it wouldn't. What I am saying is the concept of the tea party thing is to raise awareness to what has been going on in Washington for far too long.

You can make only $30,000 a year and think spending has gotten out of control. You can make $30,000 a year and know our elected official's votes are bought and paid for.

I think mocking the tea party idea is hilarious and it points out how clearly the partisan lines are drawn, at least on one side.

People want to band together to bit%h about taxes and spending? It's no skin off your teeth if you think it's silly. Let them be silly.

whatsmynameagain
04-14-2009, 11:04 AM
Talk about a backwards view of things.

how so?
Posted via Mobile Device

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 11:09 AM
I didn't say it wouldn't. What I am saying is the concept of the tea party thing is to raise awareness to what has been going on in Washington for far too long.

You can make only $30,000 a year and think spending has gotten out of control. You can make $30,000 a year and know our elected official's votes are bought and paid for.

I think mocking the tea party idea is hilarious and it points out how clearly the partisan lines are drawn, at least on one side.

People want to band together to bit%h about taxes and spending? It's no skin off your teeth if you think it's silly. Let them be silly.

Fair enough. My point was if the economy turns around no one is going to give a shit about what happened at the tea parties except the right-wing fringe people.

vailpass
04-14-2009, 11:12 AM
i aint got it yet, hence 2010 return.... im just excited to be in the position im in with the economic downturn. im in the freight industry and saw my portfolio gain 50% last month and feb is always horrible. my own business is outperforming last years numbers by over 100%. i was expecting this to be a shitty year. the main point of that post had more to do with making more money and paying more taxes and those taxes being the least of my worries. i think most of u missed the point and would rather try to discredit someone. people want to turn it into a cock contest here because thats what they are more interested in.

i can only hope to get to a point where im paying over 50k in taxes yearly. i think most will agree
Posted via Mobile Device

Good on you. My point was that you might consider being a quiet dog with a big bite when it comes to your personal financial situation.

mlyonsd
04-14-2009, 11:15 AM
Fair enough. My point was if the economy turns around no one is going to give a shit about what happened at the tea parties except the right-wing fringe people.

The economy will turn around. It's inevitable it will turn around, even with out the bailouts and stimulus. The only question at the time was who's friends were going to be left out in the cold and who's weren't.

SBK
04-14-2009, 11:21 AM
Alot will happen between now and then. The whole economy might be completely turned around by then.

It won't be.

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 11:24 AM
The economy will turn around. It's inevitable it will turn around, even with out the bailouts and stimulus. The only question at the time was who's friends were going to be left out in the cold and who's weren't.

Someone is always going to be left out I am just hoping it is not the middle class this time

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 11:25 AM
It won't be.

Is this a prediction or a wish?

mlyonsd
04-14-2009, 11:27 AM
Someone is always going to be left out I am just hoping it is not the middle class this time

If your income taxes don't go up in the next 10 years to pay off the debt I hope you'll consider yourself one of the lucky ones.

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 11:29 AM
If your income taxes don't go up in the next 10 years to pay off the debt I hope you'll consider yourself one of the lucky ones.

I fully expect my taxes to go up

KC native
04-14-2009, 11:29 AM
Money quote is at 2:32. For those too lazy to click and watch a 2:41 video here it is, "In Cavuto’s defense, if you are planning simultaneous tea bagging all around the country, you’re going to need a Dick Armey."

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8i-OWDjOQfI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8i-OWDjOQfI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

KC native
04-14-2009, 11:30 AM
Another funny one on the background of teabagging

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/F26vC_1_8xw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/F26vC_1_8xw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

whatsmynameagain
04-14-2009, 11:35 AM
Good on you. My point was that you might consider being a quiet dog with a big bite when it comes to your personal financial situation.

i apologize if i sounded arrogant but thats not how it was intended. i was using myself as an example, not on how much i make but the fact that taxes on the wealthy are not a bad thing. as i make more money i dont have a problem paying more taxes.
Posted via Mobile Device

Cannibal
04-14-2009, 11:44 AM
Noticed you left 'spreading the wealth around' off your otherwise impeccable list.

Hard to believe you'd forget such an important and integral duty of government.

Social programs would go as well. Social Security, childrens health insurance, unemployement. Medicare. Everything. Zero taxes will be paid by anyone. But don't come looking for anyone to help when your house burns down, or when you're in an auto accident. Also don't look for help when foreign powers decide to invade, because we won't have a military. Expect the roads and bridges to fall apart and society to decline without education.

vailpass
04-14-2009, 11:51 AM
i apologize if i sounded arrogant but thats not how it was intended. i was using myself as an example, not on how much i make but the fact that taxes on the wealthy are not a bad thing. as i make more money i dont have a problem paying more taxes.
Posted via Mobile Device

You have to get quite a bit further up the ladder before you can be considered arrogant. It isn't my place to give you advice, I said my two cents worth already.
Cheers.

patteeu
04-14-2009, 11:52 AM
Who do you think is paying for all the press and advertising?

How embarassing that Freedom Works and Americans for Prosperity are contributing/organizing these tea parties. /sarcasm

Compare that to the anti-war rallies that Obama fans are so fond of which were backed by communist front groups like ANSWER (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_Now_to_Stop_War_and_End_Racism).

ANSWER was established at the initiative of the International Action Center (IAC), which was founded by former United States attorney general Ramsey Clark and the Workers World Party. Many of ANSWER's leaders were members of Workers World Party (WWP) at the time of ANSWER's founding, and are current members of the Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL), a Marxist-Leninist organization that was founded in 2004 by people who had left the WWP. When the WWP did function in ANSWER, the coalition was accused of being a front group for the Party, which never took an official role on its steering committee.[10]

As of December 2006, ANSWER's Steering Committee consists of:

* Alliance for Just and Lasting Peace in the Philippines
* Free Palestine Alliance — U.S.
* Haiti Support Network
* Kensington Welfare Rights Union
* Korea Truth Commission
* Muslim Student Association — National
* Mexico Solidarity Network
* Nicaragua Network
* Partnership for Civil Justice — LDEF
* Party for Socialism and Liberation
* IFCO/Pastors for Peace

patteeu
04-14-2009, 11:55 AM
God loves you Dirk. You find some oddball allegation and spend zero effort to look at who is organizing these tea parties. I do enjoy it watching you spin out of control knowing you are bright enough to come back down to earth in time. I cannot believe you didnt find a reference to Fox news, neo nazis, and some other groups....

Tomorrow when there are crowds of people representing all races, incomes, and political parties, then what will you say?

Im even more confused by how anyone can be so closed minded or so partisan that you see evil and such in a protest over taxes that is not, never has been and should not be aligned by party...party vs party is not the issue..its people tired of excessive taxes...not fed taxes...all taxes. First was BRC who clearly has a stake in the ground that all issues must be partisan...and now you. I dont understand that.

There is a lot of truth in what you say, but as the level of aversion to huge government and the associated taxes has dropped in the democrat party and as the class warfare mentality has become dominant there, resistance of the type practiced at the first tea party has become more and more a partisan affair. Unfortunately.

patteeu
04-14-2009, 11:59 AM
So these people were completely fine with "high" taxes with a Republican in office. But feel the exact same tax rates are worthy of protest with a Democrat in office. I kinda thought that's what it was about. Thank you very much for clearing that up for me.

:spock: You're putting me on.

patteeu
04-14-2009, 12:04 PM
i aint got it yet, hence 2010 return.... im just excited to be in the position im in with the economic downturn. im in the freight industry and saw my portfolio gain 50% last month and feb is always horrible. my own business is outperforming last years numbers by over 100%. i was expecting this to be a shitty year. the main point of that post had more to do with making more money and paying more taxes and those taxes being the least of my worries. i think most of u missed the point and would rather try to discredit someone. people want to turn it into a cock contest here because thats what they are more interested in.

i can only hope to get to a point where im paying over 50k in taxes yearly. i think most will agree
Posted via Mobile Device

If you're so anxious to do it, what's stopping you from making a $50k gift to Uncle Sam now?

blaise
04-14-2009, 12:09 PM
Social programs would go as well. Social Security, childrens health insurance, unemployement. Medicare. Everything. Zero taxes will be paid by anyone. But don't come looking for anyone to help when your house burns down, or when you're in an auto accident. Also don't look for help when foreign powers decide to invade, because we won't have a military. Expect the roads and bridges to fall apart and society to decline without education.

It's true, people don't appreciate the positive things taxes do for you.
Just like some people that constantly rail against those evil, greedy BIG BUSINESSES seem to forget that they employ thousands of people.

patteeu
04-14-2009, 12:09 PM
i apologize if i sounded arrogant but thats not how it was intended. i was using myself as an example, not on how much i make but the fact that taxes on the wealthy are not a bad thing. as i make more money i dont have a problem paying more taxes.
Posted via Mobile Device

You have your limits too though. Would you be OK with a 99% tax on any raise/income increase you get from here on out? Would you keep striving to earn more if you faced such a tax? How much of a tax would you bear on that additional income without losing any interest in working harder to earn it? Everyone has a limit. Even if yours is higher than most, that doesn't mean that your personal limit is good public policy.

Radar Chief
04-14-2009, 12:14 PM
Social programs would go as well. Social Security, childrens health insurance, unemployement. Medicare. Everything. Zero taxes will be paid by anyone. But don't come looking for anyone to help when your house burns down, or when you're in an auto accident. Also don't look for help when foreign powers decide to invade, because we won't have a military. Expect the roads and bridges to fall apart and society to decline without education.

I’ve got a Jeep, I don’t need roads to get around. You sissies that bought Prius’, however, would be screwed. ;)

Cannibal
04-14-2009, 12:29 PM
I’ve got a Jeep, I don’t need roads to get around. You sissies that bought Prius’, however, would be screwed. ;)

I must admit that I do not drive an economical vehicle (Charger R/T). I am a motorhead like yourself. But I do live pretty close to work though, so I could walk if necessary :)

BigRedChief
04-14-2009, 12:32 PM
I must admit that I do not drive an economical vehicle (Charger R/T). I am a motorhead like yourself. But I do live pretty close to work though, so I could walk if necessary :)
My 2005 Mustang isn't so bad. 17 miles a gallon. Still goes 0-60 in 5.65 seconds. Fast enough for me.

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 12:34 PM
How embarassing that Freedom Works and Americans for Prosperity are contributing/organizing these tea parties. /sarcasm

Compare that to the anti-war rallies that Obama fans are so fond of which were backed by communist front groups like ANSWER (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_Now_to_Stop_War_and_End_Racism).

You are missing the point pat. HCF said these tea parties were not about party or politics when clearly they are.

Also I never supported any anti-war rallies and I thought they were dumb too.

whatsmynameagain
04-14-2009, 01:14 PM
If you're so anxious to do it, what's stopping you from making a $50k gift to Uncle Sam now?

ill pay them 50k when i make an amount that requires paying 50k. until then i will pay my taxes for the amount i make, you idiot.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2009, 01:18 PM
You are missing the point pat. HCF said these tea parties were not about party or politics when clearly they are.

Also I never supported any anti-war rallies and I thought they were dumb too.

And yet the press and MSM, generally, sure ate those anti-war rallies during W's years up, and blew them way out of proportion to what they really were...didn't they? Think they'll do that this time?

:hmmm:

Cannibal
04-14-2009, 01:20 PM
My 2005 Mustang isn't so bad. 17 miles a gallon. Still goes 0-60 in 5.65 seconds. Fast enough for me.

Does the Mustang have variable cylinder displacment? The 5.7 liter Hemi does. So if I don't put my foot down, the car is capable of 19 mpg in the City.

Radar Chief
04-14-2009, 01:20 PM
I must admit that I do not drive an economical vehicle (Charger R/T). I am a motorhead like yourself. But I do live pretty close to work though, so I could walk if necessary :)

Nice rig. :thumb:
And yea, I’m close enough to work I could probably walk too, but then I might injure my throttle foot. ;)

Radar Chief
04-14-2009, 01:23 PM
My 2005 Mustang isn't so bad. 17 miles a gallon. Still goes 0-60 in 5.65 seconds. Fast enough for me.

Mustangs are fun. Mrs. Radar had a GT convertible until we had MiniRadar. A couple months of hauling a baby seat in and out of a sports car and we traded it for a Jeep Liberty. It’s a nice rig, but I wish we would've kept the Mustang, then I might not have to build a ’61 Cadillac DeVille and paint it pink for her. :doh!:

Cannibal
04-14-2009, 01:24 PM
Nice rig. :thumb:
And yea, I’m close enough to work I could probably walk too, but then I might injure my throttle foot. ;)

I came damn close to buying a 1970 Monte Carlo with a 454 about a month ago! God I wanted it, but decided against it LOL. At some point I plan to get a classic car again. But in this economy, I decided it would not be a prudent decision to drop 10k on toy.

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 01:24 PM
And yet the press and MSM, generally, sure ate those anti-war rallies during W's years up, and blew them way out of proportion to what they really were...didn't they? Think they'll do that this time?

:hmmm:

I think some will obviously. IIRC not one single network ran commercials and promoting anti-war protests but you have Fox News doing that for the tea party.

Cannibal
04-14-2009, 01:26 PM
Mustangs are fun. Mrs. Radar had a GT convertible until we had MiniRadar. A couple months of hauling a baby seat in and out of a sports car and we traded it for a Jeep Liberty. It’s a nice rig, but I wish we would've kept the Mustang, then I might not have to build a ’61 Cadillac DeVille and paint it pink for her. :doh!:

I had a 72 Coupe Deville a few years ago. Had a 472 ci engine that only manage 270 hp and about 10-12 mpg in the city. Talk about inefficient. Boy was it a fun car though, I miss it sometimes.

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2009, 01:30 PM
I think some will obviously. IIRC not one single network ran commercials and promoting anti-war protests but you have Fox News doing that for the tea party.

MSNBC was as big a cheerleader for the antiwar rallies as they could have hoped for....even the big three networks ran very regular and constant "teases" as lead-ins for the evening news...you should think again.

patteeu
04-14-2009, 01:31 PM
I think some will obviously. IIRC not one single network ran commercials and promoting anti-war protests but you have Fox News doing that for the tea party.

I think your memory is faulty.

Radar Chief
04-14-2009, 01:32 PM
I came damn close to buying a 1970 Monte Carlo with a 454 about a month ago! God I wanted it, but decided against it LOL. At some point I plan to get a classic car again. But in this economy, I decided it would not be a prudent decision to drop 10k on toy.

Ouch, for $10K it better be a well taken care of / restored Monte Carlo.
As long as it’s just a toy you don’t have to rely on for transportation I’d say go for it, but not many want to suffer the gas mileage of a carbureted big block when you know gas prices are going to spike again.

Radar Chief
04-14-2009, 01:35 PM
I had a 72 Coupe Deville a few years ago. Had a 472 ci engine that only manage 270 hp and about 10-12 mpg in the city. Talk about inefficient. Boy was it a fun car though, I miss it sometimes.

True they didn’t make much power for their displacement, but they made a ton of torque. Dad had a ’67 Caddy with the 472 and while it wasn’t going to out drag race anything that sucker would fly down the highway. You could also stomp on the throttle and watch the gas gauge drop. :eek:

stevieray
04-14-2009, 01:36 PM
Mustangs are fun. Mrs. Radar had a GT convertible until we had MiniRadar. A couple months of hauling a baby seat in and out of a sports car and we traded it for a Jeep Liberty. It’s a nice rig, but I wish we would've kept the Mustang, then I might not have to build a ’61 Cadillac DeVille and paint it pink for her. :doh!:

I wanted it white....great...just great.

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 01:37 PM
MSNBC was as big a cheerleader for the antiwar rallies as they could have hoped for....even the big three networks ran very regular and constant "teases" as lead-ins for the evening news...

I think your memory is faulty.

Did they run commercials and promotions for anti-war rallies 2 weeks in advance if so I would like to see that because that is alot different than reporting.

As far left as MSNBC is I never saw them run commercials saying watch our channel for the big anti-war rally on Friday. Or maybe I missed it.

stevieray
04-14-2009, 01:39 PM
Did they run commercials and promotions for anti-war rallies 2 weeks in advance if so I would like to see that because that is alot different than reporting.

As far left as MSNBC is I never saw them run commercials saying watch our channel for the big anti-war rally on Friday. Or maybe I missed it.

..why is this important to you?

HolmeZz
04-14-2009, 01:39 PM
Because under Bush there were no taxes, no exorbitant government spending, no stimulus packages, and no bailing out and nationalizing of the banks.

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2009, 01:40 PM
Did they run commercials and promotions for anti-war rallies 2 weeks in advance if so I would like to see that because that is alot different than reporting.

As far left as MSNBC is I never saw them run commercials saying watch our channel for the big anti-war rally on Friday. Or maybe I missed it.

I'm pretty sure you are wrong....though I don't have the clips at my fingertips.

HolmeZz
04-14-2009, 01:41 PM
..why is this important to you?

Isn't it the Right that always wants to blame the media for influencing public opinion? So why shouldn't he care that a 'major news network' is pimping the hell of out of an anti-government, anti-Obama rally?

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2009, 01:41 PM
Because under Bush there were no taxes, no exorbitant government spending, no stimulus packages, and no bailing out and nationalizing of the banks.

It has less to do with Bush or Obama....than the inertia of big government solutions to every single problem we encounter--by both parties.

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2009, 01:42 PM
.... So why shouldn't he care that a 'major news network' is pimping the hell of out of an anti-government, anti-Obama rally?

Why didn't you seem to care when the MSM was constantly doing it during the last administration?

:hmmm:

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 01:43 PM
..why is this important to you?

Stevie you were ripping the AP for their story on the pirate rescue yet you don't care that a major network is running commercials promoting a right-wing tea-party.

Funny how that works.

HolmeZz
04-14-2009, 01:43 PM
It has less to do with Bush or Obama....than the inertia of big government solutions to every single problem we encounter--by both parties.

No, it's not. The overwhelming majority of these people waited until they lost an election to care enough to protest this stuff.

Radar Chief
04-14-2009, 01:43 PM
I wanted it white....great...just great.

:shrug: I wanted it black with tinted windows and lowered with some bling rims. I think my opinion matters just about as much to Mrs. Radar as yours would on the matter. ;)

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 01:43 PM
I'm pretty sure you are wrong.

Show me then because I am pretty sure I am right.

BigRedChief
04-14-2009, 01:44 PM
Does the Mustang have variable cylinder displacment? The 5.7 liter Hemi does. So if I don't put my foot down, the car is capable of 19 mpg in the City.
Probably. If I get lead footed you can see the gas gauge drop.:)

HolmeZz
04-14-2009, 01:47 PM
Why didn't you seem to care when the MSM was constantly doing it during the last administration?

:hmmm:

If they were constantly doing this, I'm sure you'll be able to point me in the direction of a number of instances. We're talking about actual advertising and encouraging attendance at these rallies.

MSNBC did pimp Obama in some commercials after he got elected and that was quite retarded.

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 01:49 PM
If they were constantly doing this, I'm sure you'll be able to point me in the direction of a number of instances. We're talking about actual advertising and encouraging attendance at these rallies.

Yep. It is one thing to report and talk about it but to actively encourage attendance and run commercials for the last few weeks on it is alot different obviously.

|Zach|
04-14-2009, 01:50 PM
Do Rush, Lauren Ingraham, and Hannity talk about the tea parties?

Do you guys know the Tea Party song?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z2H8xHFXC8U&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z2H8xHFXC8U&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Learn it.Love it.Live it.
Heh, that same guy was doing Sarah Palin songs at the McCain event I photographed during the election...it was...really out there shit. The guy is a lil creepy. I think I have some video somewhere...

stevieray
04-14-2009, 01:52 PM
Stevie you were ripping the AP for their story on the pirate rescue yet you don't care that a major network is running commercials promoting a right-wing tea-party.

Funny how that works.Your damn right I was. When the headline makes Obama coming ashore more important than the life of the captain or the US Military who does the actual grunt work..ya I have a problem with that. I have the right to disagree with it.

what's funny is instead of just answering a simple question that I give you the benefit of the doubt for, you don't and reply with more partiisian BS. Funny how you've spent so much time in a thread on something you think is fruitless and without merit...your goal seems to diviide, nothing more.

anti war protests, fred phelps, tea party. etc are proof that our rights are special and should be exercised. you railed on Bush for eight straight years, you even railed on members of your own party during the election and the second anyone questions Obama, you cry about sour grapes and sandy vaginas.

Cannibal
04-14-2009, 01:54 PM
Ouch, for $10K it better be a well taken care of / restored Monte Carlo.
As long as it’s just a toy you don’t have to rely on for transportation I’d say go for it, but not many want to suffer the gas mileage of a carbureted big block when you know gas prices are going to spike again.

Yeah, it was a pristine low mileage car with a rebuilt engine.

stevieray
04-14-2009, 01:55 PM
:shrug: I wanted it black with tinted windows and lowered with some bling rims. I think my opinion matters just about as much to Mrs. Radar as yours would on the matter. ;)

That was my second choice...:)

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 02:05 PM
Your damn right I was. When the headline makes Obama coming ashore more important than the life of the captain or the US miltiary who does the actual grunt work..ya I have a problem with that. I have the right to disagree with it.

what's funny is instead of just answering a simple question that I give you the benefit of the doubt for, you don't and reply with more partiisian BS. Funny how you've spent so much time in a thread on something you think is fruitless and without merit...your goal seems to diviide, nothing more.

anti war protests, fred phelps, tea party. etc are proof that our rights are special and should be exercised. you railed on Bush for eight straight years, you even railed on members of your own party during the election and the second anyone questions Obama, you cry about sour grapes and sandy vaginas.

You took one story and made it seem like Obama was the one doing it when he only issued a short statement thanking the military and all involved for a successful mission even though some claimed he never did such a thing. But for some reason you think he was grandstanding when he wasn't.

And damn right anyone that complains about a successful mission because Obama is POTUS has sour grapes and a sandy vagina.

To answer your question though I don't care just like I don't care about anti-war protests I only joined this thread when HCF made the statement this was a non-partisan, non-political event when it clearly isn't. Most common-sense reasonable people can see that.

patteeu
04-14-2009, 02:07 PM
Did they run commercials and promotions for anti-war rallies 2 weeks in advance if so I would like to see that because that is alot different than reporting.

As far left as MSNBC is I never saw them run commercials saying watch our channel for the big anti-war rally on Friday. Or maybe I missed it.

You're right, it's a lot different. It's worse when they embed the advertisements in their reporting. I don't think you have a leg to stand on here when it comes to media mobilization behind the two causes. That you can draw meaningless distinctions is of little relevance, IMO.

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 02:11 PM
You're right, it's a lot different. It's worse when they embed the advertisements in their reporting. I don't think you have a leg to stand on here when it comes to media mobilization behind the two causes. That you can draw meaningless distinctions is of little relevance, IMO.

So that means you have no commercials that you can produce. Gotcha. Oh btw Fox has been and will continue embedding their advertisements in their reporting on this as well but I am sure you don't care.

stevieray
04-14-2009, 02:16 PM
You took one story and made it seem like Obama was the one doing it when he only issued a short statement thanking the military and all involved for a successful mission even though some claimed he never did such a thing. But for some reason you think he was grandstanding when he wasn't.

And damn right anyone that complains about a successful mission because Obama is POTUS has sour grapes and a sandy vagina.

To answer your question though I don't care just like I don't care about anti-war protests I only joined this thread when HCF made the statement this was a non-partisan, non-political event when it clearly isn't. Most common-sense reasonable people can see that.

I dogged the media. You keep making it about "becuase Obama is President"

You don't know what it is..it hasn't happened yet, you have to make it negative because you have and continue to be more emotionally invested in your candidate than your country. JMO.

you joined this thread on your own accord, not because of what someone posted..

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 02:16 PM
Oh and so much for being non-partisan and above politics right HCF?

There has been much disagreement in recent days over whether the tax day tea party movement is grassroots or astroturf, a right-wing crusade or a spontaneous outburst of nonpartisan popular fury over government spending and taxes. However it got started, it's clear where it's headed: to an honored place within the mainstream Republican party.

The Republican National Committee, via its website, GOP.com. has officially endorsed the protest movement with a page where tea partiers can sign up to send a "virtual teabag" (e-bag?) to President Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, or Harry Reid.

blaise
04-14-2009, 02:16 PM
Yep. It is one thing to report and talk about it but to actively encourage attendance and run commercials for the last few weeks on it is alot different obviously.

I don't watch FOX, so don't think I'm trying to be facetious, but is FOX producing the commercials themselves or are they simply selling commercial space? If they're just selling the space then who cares?

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2009, 02:16 PM
dirk, I don't have the time, or desire, to google and youtube search for evidence for you....

It's something that anybody with a brain that was paying attention during W's years saw plainly as the light of day--a very strong anti-Bush bias that manifested itself at every opportunity in most of the MSM. Is FOX anti-Obama? Probably; I'll take your word, since I don't watch it. Sure. You get no argument from me. My point would be, "welcome to the club." Except that the rest of the MSM seems pretty darn quiet/pretty restrained in their questioning/challenging of anything from the current administration thus far. I understand, we are still in a bit of a "honeymoon" period...so I'm not thinking too much of it at the moment though.

OTOH, please don't pretend the MSM didn't go out of their way to criticize, demonize, and demagogue W's administration at nearly every turn....because it makes you look more partisan (into jAZ, penchief, jettio territory) than you are most of the time.

Radar Chief
04-14-2009, 02:17 PM
Yeah, it was a pristine low mileage car with a rebuilt engine.

Mmm, I’ll bet that was hard to pass up.
You never know, buy a toy like that and you might get into showing it, going to Cruise Nights.
One of my neighbors is an old retired guy that restored a ’56 Bel Air that he hits the local car show circuit with along with group of old retirees that all have built rigs of one sort or another.

patteeu
04-14-2009, 02:20 PM
So that means you have no commercials that you can produce. Gotcha. Oh btw Fox has been and will continue embedding their advertisements in their reporting on this as well but I am sure you don't care.

I'm not the one who's trying to pretend that whatever it is that Fox is doing is new and unique.

Jenson71
04-14-2009, 02:21 PM
I don't watch FOX, so don't think I'm trying to be facetious, but is FOX producing the commercials themselves or are they simply selling commercial space? If they're just selling the space then who cares?

I think they are having their primetime shows filmed at the locations of the tea parties sometime.

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 02:21 PM
I dogged the media. You keep making it about "becuase Obama is President"

You don't know what it is..it hasn't happened yet, you have to make it negative because you've have and continue to be more emotionally invested in your candidate than your country. JMO.

if you say it was just about the media then I will take your word for it.

But don't ever think that I care for a POTUS more than my country. I served my country and signed up when GHW Bush was POTUS. I would gladly die for my country if that is asked of me.

stevieray
04-14-2009, 02:24 PM
if you say it was just about the media then I will take your word for it.

But don't ever think that I care for a POTUS more than my country. I served my country and signed up when GHW Bush was POTUS. I would gladly die for my country if that is asked of me.

Fair enough. I can relate.

..

patteeu
04-14-2009, 02:25 PM
Oh and so much for being non-partisan and above politics right HCF?

It's shocking when political parties try to capitalize on popular ideas, isn't it.

I don't think it makes much difference whether this is a chicken or an egg situation. If it's a grass roots wave that the Republican party and other conservative organizations have managed to catch, great. If it's a case of the Republicans and conservative organizations energizing people and drawing them to a cause, that's great too. Either way, it's better than the way Obama, the democrats, and the Paulians got in bed with communists and other anti-Americans for those anti-war rallies, IMO.

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 02:29 PM
dirk, I don't have the time, or desire, to google and youtube search for evidence for you....

It's something that anybody with a brain that was paying attention during W's years saw plainly as the light of day--a very strong anti-Bush bias that manifested itself at every opportunity in most of the MSM. Is FOX anti-Obama? Probably; I'll take your word, since I don't watch it. Sure. You get no argument from me. My point would be, "welcome to the club." Except that the rest of the MSM seems pretty darn quiet/pretty restrained in their questioning/challenging of anything from the current administration thus far. I understand, we are still in a bit of a "honeymoon" period...so I'm not thinking too much of it at the moment though.

OTOH, please don't pretend the MSM didn't go out of their way to criticize, demonize, and demagogue W's administration at nearly every turn....because it makes you look more partisan (into jAZ, penchief, jettio territory) than you are most of the time.

We are having a failure to communicate here. I am not defending any of the MSM's reporting or bias towards Bush just like I am not going to criticize Fox for their opinion of Obama.

The main difference here is that one network has been running commercials for the last few weeks telling people to get involved with tea parties. I asked Pat and you to produce one commercial from any of the other media outlets that ran for several weeks telling people to join the anti-war rallies and you can't produce them. Why? Because they don't exist.

blaise
04-14-2009, 02:30 PM
I'll just apply what my common sense tells me: That FOX is playing up the tea parties because they're right leaning. Just like I believe many of the anti-war protests, Cindy Sheehan stories, soldiers getting killed stories, soldier committing crimes stories were played up by other networks while Bush was in office to produce a desired effect- to drum up anti-Bush sentiment and garner support for the left. It may have been more subtle in the case of the left, but it was there.
So both sides are guilty, both sides are scuzzy, and both sides have people sucking it up, convinced all the while that the other side is chock full of hypocrisy but blinded by their own.

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 02:31 PM
I don't watch FOX, so don't think I'm trying to be facetious, but is FOX producing the commercials themselves or are they simply selling commercial space? If they're just selling the space then who cares?

They are Fox commericals telling people to get involved with Tea Parties and to watch Fox News for the latest on the Tea Parties.

They are also putting alot of their big personalities at Tea Parties across the country which is fine.

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2009, 02:31 PM
.... I asked Pat and you to produce one commercial from any of the other media outlets that ran for several weeks telling people to join the anti-war rallies and you can't produce them. Why? Because they don't exist.

So, you don't remember the endless....Cindy Sheehan and Code Pink (and similar organizations) media stories, promoting their upcoming rallies and appearances?

Really? :hmmm:

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 02:33 PM
It's shocking when political parties try to capitalize on popular ideas, isn't it.

I don't think it makes much difference whether this is a chicken or an egg situation. If it's a grass roots wave that the Republican party and other conservative organizations have managed to catch, great. If it's a case of the Republicans and conservative organizations energizing people and drawing them to a cause, that's great too. Either way, it's better than the way Obama, the democrats, and the Paulians got in bed with communists and other anti-Americans for those anti-war rallies, IMO.

That is cool with me just don't tell me that this is a non-partisan non-political event that is the only part that I object too.

That would be like me telling you the anti-war protests were non-partisan and the Easter Bunny was alive.

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 02:35 PM
So, you don't remember the endless....Cindy Sheehan and Code Pink (and similar organizations) media stories, promoting their upcoming rallies and appearances?

Really? :hmmm:

Stories don't equal commercials asking people to get involved

blaise
04-14-2009, 02:38 PM
Stories don't equal commercials asking people to get involved

No, but maybe It's better to see the wolf than the wolf in sheep's clothing.

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2009, 02:41 PM
Stories don't equal commercials asking people to get involved

Really? Even though Cindy Sheehan and Code Pink....were constantly bombarding television "news" programs for a couple or three years? Hell, they were more over-exposed than Brittany Spears or Lindsey Lohan. It was the best "advertising" money could have bought....

Wow. Interesting "take".... :hmmm:

Cannibal
04-14-2009, 02:43 PM
Obama is relatively popular right now. I'm tellin ya, if we see a lot of kooks out there with bullshit racists signs, or calling him Commie, this is going to backfire on the Republicans.

And no, I am not saying all Republicans are racist, so don't even go there. I am talking about the kooks during the campaign that came out of the woodwork saying they woudn't vote for a n!gger and acting like the world was coming to an end because a black guy might be elected Prez. If those people come out in droves, it will reflect badly.

BucEyedPea
04-14-2009, 02:47 PM
Obama is relatively popular right now. I'm tellin ya, if we see a lot of kooks out there with bullshit racists signs, or calling him Commie, this is going to backfire on the Republicans.

And no, I am not saying all Republicans are racist, so don't even go there. I am talking about the kooks during the campaign that came out of the woodwork saying they woudn't vote for a n!gger and acting like the world was coming to an end because a black guy might be elected Prez. If those people come out in droves, it will reflect badly.

Mine's gonna say "Tory." :p

"Tory. Tory Hallehuiah!" To the tune of that song.

Baby Lee
04-14-2009, 02:47 PM
Obama is relatively popular right now. I'm tellin ya, if we see a lot of kooks out there with bullshit racists signs, or calling him Commie, this is going to backfire on the Republicans.

And no, I am not saying all Republicans are racist, so don't even go there. I am talking about the kooks during the campaign that came out of the woodwork saying they woudn't vote for a n!gger and acting like the world was coming to an end because a black guy might be elected Prez. If those people come out in droves, it will reflect badly.

Yeah, all those lifelong Republican Kooks.

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dirk digler
04-14-2009, 02:48 PM
No, but maybe It's better to see the wolf than the wolf in sheep's clothing.

I think this damages Fox's credibility either way.

Really? Even though Cindy Sheehan and Code Pink....were constantly bombarding television "news" programs for a couple or three years? Hell, they were more over-exposed than Brittany Spears or Lindsey Lohan. It was the best "advertising" money could have bought....

Wow. Interesting "take".... :hmmm:

Does that apply to kooks like Fred Phelps everytime they were interviewed or showed their protests?

BucEyedPea
04-14-2009, 02:49 PM
Either way, it's better than the way Obama, the democrats, and the Paulians got in bed with communists and other anti-Americans for those anti-war rallies, IMO.

We did not get in bed with communists. They got in bed with us. Quit twisting things. Ever hear of an ad hoc issue?

Chief Faithful
04-14-2009, 02:51 PM
That is cool with me just don't tell me that this is a non-partisan non-political event that is the only part that I object too.

That would be like me telling you the anti-war protests were non-partisan and the Easter Bunny was alive.

No it is partisan in the sense that only the Democrats are not on-board. It is a grass roots event being participated by Republicans, Libertarians and some Independents.

Cannibal
04-14-2009, 02:51 PM
Yeah, all those lifelong Republican Kooks.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VeGPzk8Oca8&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VeGPzk8Oca8&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I saw that vid as well. Take a look at the McCain vids. You'll see crowds of people acting just like her.

Jenson71
04-14-2009, 02:51 PM
Really? Even though Cindy Sheehan and Code Pink....were constantly bombarding television "news" programs for a couple or three years? Hell, they were more over-exposed than Brittany Spears or Lindsey Lohan. It was the best "advertising" money could have bought....


I've never heard of Code Pink. Cindy Sheehan was really popular during the Bush protest at his ranch. You think they bombarded television news for 2-3 years? More exposed than Spears and Lohan? Everyone likes a face to current events, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if commentators kept either praising her or calling her an attention whore every once in a while. But I think you're exaggerating.

Hydrae
04-14-2009, 02:52 PM
I will be working but if I went it would have nothing to do with party affiliations. I can not speak for others motivations, just my own. I am encouraged by the idea of this protest.

As to why now and not 3 years ago, 3 years ago we hadn't just watched our government spend how ever many trillion dollars in a few months. Most people realize this started during Bush and has continued during Obama and is not about dem or rep, it is about out of control government. I truely believe this is a reaction to the camel's back starting to creak and his legs starting to bow.

Chief Faithful
04-14-2009, 02:53 PM
I think this damages Fox's credibility either way.


Liberals think no matter what Fox does it damages their credibility. I guess that is why they are the leading news network.

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 02:56 PM
It is a grass roots event being participated by Republicans, Libertarians and some Independents.

And Santa Claus is alive and living in my basement

Liberals think no matter what Fox does it damages their credibility. I guess that is why they are the leading news network.

I am not a liberal and I like Fox for the most part but they have crossed the line.

On their web site on the main page they have the ad that they are running. In it they ask "What is the fate of our nation?" Are they suggesting our nation is about to die or something?

Jenson71
04-14-2009, 03:12 PM
Liberals think no matter what Fox does it damages their credibility. I guess that is why they are the leading news network.

How do we connect the dots here?

SBK
04-14-2009, 03:21 PM
Is this a prediction or a wish?

It's a prediction based upon historical evidence of what happened in the past when we were in the same situation. It's not a wish, as most folks who are sure the economy is about to soar are basing their predictions on.

The economy will return, everything is cyclical, but raising debt, raising taxes, and raising spending aren't ways to turn a recession around.

mlyonsd
04-14-2009, 04:10 PM
I've never heard of Code Pink. Cindy Sheehan was really popular during the Bush protest at his ranch. You think they bombarded television news for 2-3 years? More exposed than Spears and Lohan? Everyone likes a face to current events, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if commentators kept either praising her or calling her an attention whore every once in a while. But I think you're exaggerating.

He's not exaggerating by saying Sheehan was in the news for at least 3 years.

She became less a media darling when she turned against the democrats after 2006 for not doing what she thought she had elected them to do.

Ultra Peanut
04-14-2009, 04:13 PM
honk if you've seen my dicionary

http://j.photos.cx/c5405acf3ce25f874a25020b5474d9e532adf2c3-94f.jpg

VAChief
04-14-2009, 04:14 PM
I certainly think they should have their voice, I'm still not sure what they are really trying to say about April 15th, its still the Bush tax code, and the poll numbers (right or wrong in reality) reflect that a strong majority 71% in the latest Gallop Poll are confident in Obama in regards to the economy.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/117415/Americans-Confident-Obama-Economy.aspx

I think it is way too early to be critical or pompous. Give the man a chance. The country overwhelming gave W their vote of approval after 9/11 so that only goes so far obviously.

HonestChieffan
04-14-2009, 04:18 PM
I certainly think they should have their voice, I'm still not sure what they are really trying to say about April 15th, its still the Bush tax code, and the poll numbers (right or wrong in reality) reflect that a strong majority 71% in the latest Gallop Poll are confident in Obama in regards to the economy.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/117415/Americans-Confident-Obama-Economy.aspx

I think it is way too early to be critical or pompous. Give the man a chance. The country overwhelming gave W their vote of approval after 9/11 so that only goes so far obviously.

"They" are not saying anything pertaining to a federal level only or a Bush or a Obama Tax. Thats what is confusing you. Its Taxes...all taxes..sales taxes, income taxes, state taxes, local taxes, property taxes......

Now ponder that a bit and its pretty easy to understand why its not a partisan thing.

VAChief
04-14-2009, 04:24 PM
"They" are not saying anything pertaining to a federal level only or a Bush or a Obama Tax. Thats what is confusing you. Its Taxes...all taxes..sales taxes, income taxes, state taxes, local taxes, property taxes......

Now ponder that a bit and its pretty easy to understand why its not a partisan thing.

Do they not have representation? Wasn't that the original "Tea Party" complaint? It may not be intended to be partisan, but it is certainly morphing into the usual suspects from the hater crowd. Or at least it seems like to me.

mlyonsd
04-14-2009, 04:25 PM
"They" are not saying anything pertaining to a federal level only or a Bush or a Obama Tax. Thats what is confusing you. Its Taxes...all taxes..sales taxes, income taxes, state taxes, local taxes, property taxes......

Now ponder that a bit and its pretty easy to understand why its not a partisan thing.

I think you're missing the other side's point which is if you care how your taxes are spent you're a retard and you should trust politicians to spend it wisely.

Hydrae
04-14-2009, 04:32 PM
Do they not have representation? Wasn't that the original "Tea Party" complaint? It may not be intended to be partisan, but it is certainly morphing into the usual suspects from the hater crowd. Or at least it seems like to me.

I would argue that we do not have representation in relation to our taxation but don't have all night. :D

Jenson71
04-14-2009, 04:36 PM
He's not exaggerating by saying Sheehan was in the news for at least 3 years.

Every day? Every other day? Once a week? For three years?

That's not what he said. You took the exaggeration right out of his post. "Bombarded" . . . "Exposed more than Spears and Lohan"

VAChief
04-14-2009, 04:40 PM
I would argue that we do not have representation in relation to our taxation but don't have all night. :D

Maybe not as much as you would like, but "read my lips" did come back to haunt at least one elected official.

mlyonsd
04-14-2009, 04:49 PM
Every day? Every other day? Once a week? For three years?

That's not what he said. You took the exaggeration right out of his post. "Bombarded" . . . "Exposed more than Spears and Lohan"

I'll admit if you get your "news" from Entertainment Tonight Spears and Lohan probably got more attention.

If you get your "news" from a real 'news' source I'd say he is right.

Jenson71
04-14-2009, 04:52 PM
Okay then. From 2005-2008, the media bombarded us (almost every day?) with Code Pink and Cindy Sheehan news. Overall, it was more than Britney Spears and Lindsey Lohan received in the media.

patteeu
04-14-2009, 04:58 PM
I certainly think they should have their voice, I'm still not sure what they are really trying to say about April 15th, its still the Bush tax code, and the poll numbers (right or wrong in reality) reflect that a strong majority 71% in the latest Gallop Poll are confident in Obama in regards to the economy.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/117415/Americans-Confident-Obama-Economy.aspx

I think it is way too early to be critical or pompous. Give the man a chance. The country overwhelming gave W their vote of approval after 9/11 so that only goes so far obviously.

Perhaps people are upset with the way their tax dollars have been spent since the last April 15 and the way they will be spent in the next few tax years according to the recently released plans of the new administration. :shrug:

The tax code may not have changed (yet), but the fiscal landscape has been hit by a high spending earthquake.

mlyonsd
04-14-2009, 04:59 PM
Okay then. From 2005-2008, the media bombarded us (almost every day?) with Code Pink and Cindy Sheehan news. Overall, it was more than Britney Spears and Lindsey Lohan received in the media.

Sheehan and Code Pink easily had more coverage on the NBC, ABC, CBS, and FOX nightly news shows during that time than Spears or Lohan combined.

Like I said if you get your 'nightly news' from ET or John Stewart your mileage may vary.

mlyonsd
04-14-2009, 05:02 PM
Perhaps people are upset with the way their tax dollars have been spent since the last April 15 and the way they will be spent in the next few tax years according to the recently released plans of the new administration. :shrug:

Or, its waaaaay easier to just put it on Obama/Pelosi/Reid autopilot and let them manage it. Primarily because Change and Hope ring so true.

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2009, 05:02 PM
Okay then. From 2005-2008, the media bombarded us (almost every day?) with Code Pink and Cindy Sheehan news. Overall, it was more than Britney Spears and Lindsey Lohan received in the media.

If not in sheer volume and number, then in the importance placed on it by most in mainstream media outlets NEWS divisions...and, of course, in the DNC talking points and Olberman commentary segments. You'd have thought that the old hag (Sheehan) had elipsed Mother Theresa or something....sheesh. As for Code Pink...perhaps you were too busy and preoccupied to "remember" but there was plenty of talk about their activities and rallies too--of course, the MSM often conveniently neglected to mention who the organizers were by name though. Heh.

Jenson71
04-14-2009, 05:05 PM
Sheehan and Code Pink easily had more coverage on the NBC, ABC, CBS, and FOX nightly news shows during that time than Spears or Lohan combined.

I won't question that. But on that criteria alone, it hardly seems like anything to complain about. How fucked up would the nightly news shows be if Spears and Lohan got more attention than actual newsworthy events?

But still, no exaggeration to say Code Pink and Sheehan were bombarded onto us for several years?

blaise
04-14-2009, 05:06 PM
Okay then. From 2005-2008, the media bombarded us (almost every day?) with Code Pink and Cindy Sheehan news. Overall, it was more than Britney Spears and Lindsey Lohan received in the media.

That's beside the point though, isn't it? The fact is she (Sheehan) got plenty of coverage.
I would point out that the media bashing of Rush Limbaugh by Keith Olbermann and others probably was on the point of bombardment for quite a few days.

Jenson71
04-14-2009, 05:15 PM
It's quite an irrational dislike of a war protestor ("old hag") to say that her story was bombarded onto us by the media for several years, gaining more exposure than Britney Spears and Lindsey Lohan. I'm reading the support and criticism on her from wikipedia, and the majority of the comments about her from media personalities fall within two months (August and September) of 2005.

blaise
04-14-2009, 05:17 PM
It's quite an irrational dislike of a war protestor ("old hag") to say that her story was bombarded onto us by the media for several years, gaining more exposure than Britney Spears and Lindsey Lohan. I'm reading the support and criticism on her from wikipedia, and the majority of the comments about her from media personalities fall within two months (August and September) of 2005.

Well how long has the coverage of the tea parties been going on?

mlyonsd
04-14-2009, 05:18 PM
I won't question that. But on that criteria alone, it hardly seems like anything to complain about. How ****ed up would the nightly news shows be if Spears and Lohan got more attention than actual newsworthy events?

But still, no exaggeration to say Code Pink and Sheehan were bombarded onto us for several years?

I will admit I paid more attention to their coverage because I didn't agree with their stance, so I am biased.

This tea party thing is going to go on in more than 250 cities tomorrow so I see it as news worthy.

I'll bet the first time Martin Luther King stood up for human rights it was just a little gathering.

A real grass roots look at how tax dollars are being spent is something we need IMO. Mocking it because of who is standing in the crowd is just sour grapes.

KCTitus
04-14-2009, 05:20 PM
Perhaps people are upset with the way their tax dollars have been spent since the last April 15 and the way they will be spent in the next few tax years according to the recently released plans of the new administration. :shrug:

The tax code may not have changed (yet), but the fiscal landscape has been hit by a high spending earthquake.

'our' tax dollars were spent long ago...today they're printing money and spending the tax dollars of my kids and grandkids and possibly their kids.

This has gone beyond the merely irrational spending of the last 10 years, to complete madness-- or they wish to destroy capitalism and have the government own everything. I may not have the founding fathers writings all memorized, but Im left with the impression they would frown on that concept.

btw, yeah Im going.

Jenson71
04-14-2009, 05:24 PM
Well how long has the coverage of the tea parties been going on?

The majority of the references from wikipedia are dated in March and April, which by God, is pretty much how long they've been going on (plus half of Feb.). There are 68 references. Some from USA Today, NY Post, NY Times, Orland Sentinel, CBS. Chairman Newt has talked about them and so has Gov. Rick Perry. We're pretty much being ****ing bombarded with news about them.

HonestChieffan
04-14-2009, 05:28 PM
I think you're missing the other side's point which is if you care how your taxes are spent you're a retard and you should trust politicians to spend it wisely.

What it really demonstrates is a total disregard by some who see any opposition to Taxes as somehow aimed at the president. Its amazing to me that the party of such inclusiveness and so called non or bi partisan behavior is actually showing itself as the most hateful toward anything they dont agree with. And that even goes to not even attempting to understand the issue before they go on attack mode. I guess its easier to react and remain ignorant and uninformed than to get involved and try to make a difference.

Jenson71
04-14-2009, 05:30 PM
Got pics?

mlyonsd
04-14-2009, 05:36 PM
What it really demonstrates is a total disregard by some who see any opposition to Taxes as somehow aimed at the president. Its amazing to me that the party of such inclusiveness and so called non or bi partisan behavior is actually showing itself as the most hateful toward anything they dont agree with. And that even goes to not even attempting to understand the issue before they go on attack mode. I guess its easier to react and remain ignorant and uninformed than to get involved and try to make a difference.

Exactly.

Bush wasn't fiscally responsible IMO and I don't think you'll find one tea party member that believes Bush is any better than the current administration or congress.

stevieray
04-14-2009, 05:46 PM
Exactly.

Bush wasn't fiscally responsible IMO and I don't think you'll find one tea party member that believes Bush is any better than the current administration or congress.

Yup, this turds been brewing in the bowl for quite some time. I can't believe that people thought that everyone was/is going to live large on credit and beyond their means forever..it eventually led us to being junkies, and the government as our connection.

patteeu
04-14-2009, 05:55 PM
Exactly.

Bush wasn't fiscally responsible IMO and I don't think you'll find one tea party member that believes Bush is any better than the current administration or congress.

I think Bush was really bad when it comes to spending. That said, I think the current administration and congress are far worse.

mlyonsd
04-14-2009, 05:56 PM
Yup, this turds been brewing in the bowl for quite some time. I can't believe that people thought that everyone was/is going to live large on credit and beyond their means forever..it eventually led us to being junkies, and the government as our connection.

Mocking these tea parties is about the same as mocking organized meetings for 'pedophiles have rights too'.

Jenson71
04-14-2009, 05:59 PM
Yup, this turds been brewing in the bowl for quite some time. I can't believe that people thought that everyone was/is going to live large on credit and beyond their means forever..it eventually led us to being junkies, and the government as our connection.

What is your assessment as to the main reason we are in this mess, stevieray?

mlyonsd
04-14-2009, 06:00 PM
I think Bush was really bad when it comes to spending. That said, I think the current administration and congress are far worse.

I appreciated Bush for his after 911 tough stance but when it comes to spending he was sort of an enabler.

You can see it on this board, using Bush's deficits makes it all ok, no matter how large they get.

HonestChieffan
04-14-2009, 06:01 PM
What is your assessment as to the main reason we are in this mess, stevieray?

what is the mess you refer to

blaise
04-14-2009, 06:07 PM
The majority of the references from wikipedia are dated in March and April, which by God, is pretty much how long they've been going on (plus half of Feb.). There are 68 references. Some from USA Today, NY Post, NY Times, Orland Sentinel, CBS. Chairman Newt has talked about them and so has Gov. Rick Perry. We're pretty much being ****ing bombarded with news about them.

So it's pretty much like the Rush Limbaugh coverage a month ago.

Jenson71
04-14-2009, 06:08 PM
what is the mess you refer to

the recession

BucEyedPea
04-14-2009, 06:33 PM
the recession

Did you see the better numbers....it's getting better....but far from over. See the market heals itself, just like the human body. My observation turned out to be correct when I saw more people in the mall. :D ;)

banyon
04-14-2009, 06:44 PM
Did you see the better numbers....it's getting better....but far from over. See the market heals itself, just like the human body. My observation turned out to be correct when I saw more people in the mall. :D ;)

Haven't you been ranting for months and months how this is the worst socialist intervention in world history or some such and how we're no longer free and live in a slaved society and now, after these massive programs you've decried have all been enacted, you're going to pretend that they are insignificant and it was the market healing itself all along?

Didn't you also predict that Obama's actions would doom us to a 10 year long depression? Is it pretty much sliding down a gravelly rockface grasping onto whatever foothold you can find these days?

blaise
04-14-2009, 07:02 PM
Haven't you been ranting for months and months how this is the worst socialist intervention in world history or some such and how we're no longer free and live in a slaved society and now, after these massive programs you've decried have all been enacted, you're going to pretend that they are insignificant and it was the market healing itself all along?

Didn't you also predict that Obama's actions would doom us to a 10 year long depression? Is it pretty much sliding down a gravelly rockface grasping onto whatever foothold you can find these days?

Yes, clearly Obama's programs are working already.

VAChief
04-14-2009, 07:04 PM
Yes, clearly Obama's programs are working already.

I don't think that was even remotely his point.

banyon
04-14-2009, 07:08 PM
I don't think that was even remotely his point.

No kidding.

HolmeZz
04-14-2009, 07:17 PM
Exactly.

Bush wasn't fiscally responsible IMO and I don't think you'll find one tea party member that believes Bush is any better than the current administration or congress.

If these people were outraged by fiscal irresponsibility, they wouldn't have waited until now to demonstrate disgust. This is nothing more than a result of having lost the last election and not being able to handle it.

Cannibal
04-14-2009, 07:22 PM
If these people were outraged by fiscal irresponsibility, they wouldn't have waited until now to demonstrate disgust. This is nothing more than a result of having lost the last election and not being able to handle it.

That is 100% correct.

BucEyedPea
04-14-2009, 07:22 PM
What is your assessment as to the main reason we are in this mess, stevieray?

cheap easy credit


( I know you didn't ask me...but I consider you my Pygmalian )

BucEyedPea
04-14-2009, 07:24 PM
If these people were outraged by fiscal irresponsibility, they wouldn't have waited until now to demonstrate disgust. This is nothing more than a result of having lost the last election and not being able to handle it.

This stuff was started by the Pauliticians. We are disgusted by it. Many there will be Pauliticians.

Now some of the big-wig Rs have joined but there's some question as to whether they're sincere, want to just use us or are going to be agent provocateurs.

HolmeZz
04-14-2009, 07:33 PM
This stuff was started by the Pauliticians. We are disgusted by it. Many there will be Pauliticians.

Now some of the big-wig Rs have joined but there's some question as to whether they're sincere, want to just use us or are going to be agent provocateurs.

I understand the Paulites were responsible for the idea and were genuinely talking about this a while ago. I don't have an issue with them.

The idea's been hijacked by the mainstream of the Republican party though in an attempt to portray a public uprising against Obama. Their opposition isn't rooted in anything that didn't go on over the past 8 years, when most of them had nothing to say.

dirk digler
04-14-2009, 07:34 PM
What it really demonstrates is a total disregard by some who see any opposition to Taxes as somehow aimed at the president. Its amazing to me that the party of such inclusiveness and so called non or bi partisan behavior is actually showing itself as the most hateful toward anything they dont agree with. And that even goes to not even attempting to understand the issue before they go on attack mode. I guess its easier to react and remain ignorant and uninformed than to get involved and try to make a difference.

Once again you are not being honest.

On the February 27 edition of On the Record, host Greta Van Susteren said: " 'Tea party' protests are erupting across the country. Angry taxpayers, or at least some of them, are taking to the streets in the spirit of the Boston Tea Party. People are protesting President Obama's massive $787 billion stimulus bill, his $3.55 trillion budget and a federal government that has been ballooning by the day since the president took office."



On the March 16 edition of The O'Reilly Factor, host Bill O'Reilly said that "big government spending protests are taking place all over the country. The latest in Cincinnati where about 5,000 folks showed up, showed their displeasure with the Obama's administration money strategy. These gatherings are being dubbed tea parties."



On the March 25 edition of Special Report, host Bret Baier said that the tea parties are "protests of wasteful government spending in general and of President Obama's stimulus package and his budget in particular."



During the April 6 edition of America's Newsroom, FoxNews.com contributor Andrea Tantaros said of the protests: "People are fighting against Barack Obama's radical shift to turn us into Europe." Fox News also aired on-screen text stating that the "Tea Parties Are Anti-Stimulus Demonstrations."

patteeu
04-14-2009, 08:34 PM
If these people were outraged by fiscal irresponsibility, they wouldn't have waited until now to demonstrate disgust. This is nothing more than a result of having lost the last election and not being able to handle it.

As if the fiscal irresponsibility of just 2 years ago is anything close to comparable to that of the last 6 months. LOL

The really interesting people aren't those that have finally been moved to protest, but instead they are those who were outraged by the war spending, irresponsible domestic spending and deficits of the Bush years (which were, relatively speaking, modest) but who now cheer on the much worse practices of the Obama regime.

Obama spent in 4 weeks what Bush's war in Iraq, the one that caused his critics to claim he was bankrupting the country, cost in 4 YEARS.

KC native
04-14-2009, 10:30 PM
Did you see the better numbers....it's getting better....but far from over. See the market heals itself, just like the human body. My observation turned out to be correct when I saw more people in the mall. :D ;)

ROFL You are a fucking idiot. Do you ever read the news or do you just make it up to fit your biases?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aXjOhkr6at3U
U.S. Retail Sales Unexpectedly Drop as Jobs Evaporate (Update2)
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By Bob Willis

April 14 (Bloomberg) -- Retail sales in the U.S. unexpectedly fell in March as soaring job losses forced consumers to pull back.

The 1.1 percent decrease followed a 0.3 percent gain in February that was stronger than previously estimated, the Commerce Department said today in Washington. Auto dealers, electronics stores and restaurants led the decline.

Less consumer spending heading into the second quarter means the recession is likely to persist. Still, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke said today there are signs that the “sharp decline” in the U.S. economy is slowing, indicating a potential “first step” toward recovery.

“While the March data isn’t enough to make us rethink expectations that the worst is over, it does serve as a reminder that the road out of this recession might be as painful as the recession itself,” Guy Lebas, chief economist with Janney Montgomery Scott LLC in Philadelphia, said in an email.

Another government report showed prices paid to U.S. producers unexpectedly fell in March after two months of gains, indicating the recession is keeping inflation under control.

The 1.2 percent decrease followed a 0.1 percent gain in February, figures from the Labor Department showed today in Washington. Excluding fuel and food, so-called core prices were unchanged. Over the last 12 months, wholesale expenses fell by the most in almost six decades.

Stock Futures Drop

Stock-index futures dropped after the reports, with futures on the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index down 0.9 percent as of 9:04 a.m. in New York. Treasuries rose, pushing yields lower. The benchmark 10-year note yielded 2.82 percent, down 4 basis points from yesterday.

Bernanke, in prepared remarks for a speech today in Atlanta, said he is “fundamentally optimistic about our economy.”

“Today’s economic conditions are difficult, but the foundations of our economy are strong, and we face no problems that cannot be overcome with insight, patience, and persistence,” he said.

Retail sales were projected to rise 0.3 percent in March after an originally reported 0.1 percent decline the prior month, according to the median estimate of 73 economists in a Bloomberg News survey. Forecasts ranged from a decline of 0.2 percent to a gain of 1.2 percent.

Incentives Fail

The retail sales figures indicated incentives and promotions by car dealers and clothing stores such as Gap Inc. failed to draw customers hurt by a lack of credit and the highest jobless rate in 25 years.

Excluding automobiles, sales decreased 0.9 percent after a 1 percent gain in February. They were forecast to show no change, according to the survey median.

In addition to rising unemployment, a late Easter holiday this year may have shifted sales out of March and into April, some economists said. Shifting holidays make it more difficult for Commerce to take into account seasonal buying patterns when tabulating purchases.

Sales at automobile dealers and parts stores dropped 2.3 percent after falling 3 percent in February. The government’s figures don’t always correlate with industry reports issued earlier this month.

Auto Sales

Autos sold at an average 9.5 million annual rate in the first quarter, the weakest performance since 1982. General Motors Corp., the largest U.S. carmaker, may be forced to file for bankruptcy in the event it can’t reach accords with labor and bondholders for $13.4 billion in federal aid.

In addition to electronics stores and restaurants, sellers of furniture, building materials, clothing, and sporting goods all posted declines. The 1.4 percent decrease in receipts at restaurants and bars was the biggest since March 2005.

Only grocery and health-care stores saw an increase in sales last month.

Service stations also posted a drop in purchases even as fuel prices climbed, indicating Americans may be cutting down on driving.

Excluding autos, gasoline and building materials, the retail group the government uses to calculate gross domestic product figures for consumer spending, sales dropped 0.9 percent, reversing the previous month’s 0.9 percent gain. The government uses data from other sources to calculate the contribution from the three categories excluded.

Clothing retailers such as Limited Brands Inc. and Gap Inc. reported March same-store sales fell less than forecast as spring promotions drew some buyers.

Discounters

General-merchandise discounters had mixed results. Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the world’s largest retailer, reported comparable- store sales rose while sales at Costco Wholesale Corp. stores open at least a year fell 5 percent.

Consumer spending, which accounts for 70 percent of the economy, probably rose at a 0.5 percent rate in the first quarter, according to economists surveyed by Bloomberg last week. Purchases fell by an average 4 percent rate in the second half of 2008, the longest slide since 1991.

Still the largest part of the economy is projected to falter again this quarter, contracting at a 0.5 percent pace, as job losses mount.

The first quarter gain will help slow the decline in growth. The world’s largest economy shrank at a 5 percent pace in the first three months of the year, following a 6.3 percent rate of contraction in the previous quarter that was the worst performance since 1982, according to the survey last week.

Recessions here and abroad mean inflation will “remain subdued,” the Federal Open Market Committee said March 18. For that reason, the central bankers added that the target interest rate will remain at “low levels” for “an extended period.”

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/surprise-retail-sales-fall/
Surprise! Retail Sales Fall
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By Barry Ritholtz - April 14th, 2009, 2:38PM

An anonymous (but known) friend writes me:

“I’m watching CNBC for the first time in about two weeks this morning. They seem to be actually surprised that retail sales dropped in March

Lets see, economy shrinking at 6% rate, unemployment climbing to 25 year high, 600K+plus jobs lost, car sales off 50%, and every discretionary retailer reporting shitty results.

AND SOMEHOW IT’S SURPRISING THAT RETAIL SALES FELL?”

Peter Bookvar fleshes out the details:

Retail sales were weaker than expected with the headline figure dropping 1.1% and ex autos dropping .9%. Digging beneath the headline, there were declines in most categories including motor vehicles and parts which fell for the second straight month even as unit auto sales rose for the month. Furniture fell, electronics got shellacked and there were further declines in clothing which had seen a bit of a rebound thanks to the early year discounts. With many of those discounts abating as the year progresses, the conversation will again return to whether the consumer is in a place to pay full price for goods that were very recently 70-80% off. Additionally, both non store retailers and department stores saw declines meaning people weren’t going out to buy stuff and didn’t buy stuff while staying home either.

On the inflation front, headline PPI fell 1.2% while core PPI was flat. Both readings were less than expected. For some reason, people have gotten optimistic about short term inflation but as I noted last month, the prospect of further price declines as we enter warmer months is very real and that prospect has not abated at all. There continues to be deflation in the pipeline with intermediate goods dropping 1.5% and crude goods, those at the earliest stage of production, dropping .3%. On the crude goods front, the .3% decline is a bit less of a price drop than we’ve seen lately so maybe there will be a let up in the future in terms of the deflation on this indicator. But for now, producer prices continue to contract and as best as I can tell, they will continue to do so for the immediate future.

petegz28
04-14-2009, 11:04 PM
Well we know why the Left calls these crazy....someone has to pay for the taxes that they raise but don't pay themselves.

DaneMcCloud
04-15-2009, 01:17 AM
Well we know why the Left calls these crazy....someone has to pay for the taxes that they raise but don't pay themselves.

Bush left the country with a budget surplus, right?

Uh...

WilliamTheIrish
04-15-2009, 05:17 AM
Pinkies up!