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googlegoogle
04-26-2009, 07:21 PM
:shake:

Hog Farmer
04-26-2009, 07:23 PM
I truly have no idea about our draft picks other than what I've read. In Pioli I trust!

unothadeal
04-26-2009, 07:24 PM
Last years draft everybody was saying it was the best one in years....we went 2-14.

Basileus777
04-26-2009, 07:24 PM
link?

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-26-2009, 07:24 PM
I truly have no idea about our draft picks other than what I've read. In Pioli I trust!

Kool-Aid chugger!/cp "experts"

MIAdragon
04-26-2009, 07:25 PM
Who really knows anyway? You cant grade a draft untill its 2-3 years old IMO.

Reerun_KC
04-26-2009, 07:25 PM
So when should we listen to the Eastern Sports Poker Network about the draft?

They can go fuck themselves with a blender, including Herms fucking dickfaced ass...

unothadeal
04-26-2009, 07:25 PM
link?

http://www.chubbyhoes.com

StcChief
04-26-2009, 07:26 PM
Pioli Kool-aid rules, until we findout "pink packets" were used.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2009, 07:26 PM
Last years draft everybody was saying it was the best one in years....we went 2-14.

If and when this team ever makes the playoffs and make a serious run, it will likely be on the backs of those 2008 picks - not the guys we picked today.

Dorsey
Albert
Flowers
Charles
Cottam
Morgan
Carr

They'll all have more of an impact than anyone we drafted today, IMO.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 07:28 PM
I guarantee 100% Albert and Flowers are and will be better than anyone that the Chiefs drafted this year.

unothadeal
04-26-2009, 07:28 PM
If and when this team ever makes the playoffs and make a serious run, it will likely be on the backs of those 2008 picks - not the guys we picked today.

Dorsey
Albert
Flowers
Charles
Cottam
Morgan
Carr

They'll all have more of an impact than anyone we drafted today, IMO.
This.

Can I do that?

the Talking Can
04-26-2009, 07:29 PM
If and when this team ever makes the playoffs and make a serious run, it will likely be on the backs of those 2008 picks - not the guys we picked today.

Dorsey
Albert
Flowers
Charles
Cottam
Morgan
Carr

They'll all have more of an impact than anyone we drafted today, IMO.

that's absurd


Cassel will have more of an impact than anyone, for better or worse, and it isn't even close

and Jackson will be more important than anyone else but Albert and Flowers, he will go along in determing the long term success of our 3-4....assuming dorsey is a misfit

googlegoogle
04-26-2009, 07:31 PM
link?

http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/story?id=4100979

unothadeal
04-26-2009, 07:33 PM
that's absurd


Cassel will have more of an impact than anyone, for better or worse, and it isn't even close

and Jackson will be more important than anyone else but Albert and Flowers, he will go along in determing the long term success of our 3-4....assuming dorsey is a misfit

This.

Wait, can I do that?

dirk digler
04-26-2009, 07:33 PM
that's absurd


Cassel will have more of an impact than anyone, for better or worse, and it isn't even close


Yep. It all rides on him.

Deberg_1990
04-26-2009, 07:34 PM
Draft grades mean ZILCH right now. I dont understand why anyone would care at this point?

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2009, 07:36 PM
that's absurd


Cassel will have more of an impact than anyone, for better or worse, and it isn't even close

and Jackson will be more important than anyone else but Albert and Flowers, he will go along in determing the long term success of our 3-4....assuming dorsey is a misfit

Well, in this case, we're assuming for the better, and I don't think Cassel is going to be anything more than a game manager.

And what is with people thinking that a freaking 5 technique is so goddamn important?

Had we drafted BJ Raji at #3, and made the same comment, I would agree with you 110%.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 07:36 PM
Draft grades mean ZILCH right now. I dont understand why anyone would care at this point?

Draft grades right now are basically about value of picks.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 07:37 PM
Well, in this case, we're assuming for the better, and I don't think Cassel is going to be anything more than a game manager.

And what is with people thinking that a freaking 5 technique is so goddamn important?

Had we drafted BJ Raji at #3, and made the same comment, I would agree with you 110%.

They're so important Chris Canty was a 4th rounder.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 07:41 PM
If and when this team ever makes the playoffs and make a serious run, it will likely be on the backs of those 2008 picks - not the guys we picked today.

Dorsey
Albert
Flowers
Charles
Cottam
Morgan
Carr

They'll all have more of an impact than anyone we drafted today, IMO.

that's what happens when you have two first round picks, a high second round pick, and three high third round picks.

(Dumbass.)

And Matt Cassel counts as a draft pick...so if he makes a pro bowl and helps us win, I guarantee he has more impact than any of the guys you just listed.

(Idiot.)

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 07:42 PM
I guarantee 100% Albert and Flowers are and will be better than anyone that the Chiefs drafted this year.

ROFL

Who gives a shit?

GOOD

I'm glad those two guys are going to be great players.

Awesome.

You are not intelligent...that's why you're nearly 30 and live in your mom's basement.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 07:44 PM
Hootie did you really call me dumb, really? After all your dumb ass posts really?

Hootie is the kinda guy who talks shit on a message board and we know why that is.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 07:45 PM
because I pay my own rent?

Basileus777
04-26-2009, 07:47 PM
This thread is on the brink of becoming something special.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2009, 07:47 PM
that's what happens when you have two first round picks, a high second round pick, and three high third round picks.

(Dumbass.)

And Matt Cassel counts as a draft pick...so if he makes a pro bowl and helps us win, I guarantee he has more impact than any of the guys you just listed.

(Idiot.)

I guess you're drunk again, or too busy staring at cock to make sense.

You can have 20 picks in the draft, it doesn't equal success. You still have to pick the RIGHT PLAYERS.

And if you could read, I've already stated that IMO, Cassel won't be anything more than a game manager. If you want to think that we'll win because of him instead of in spite of him, feel free.

The Steelers only had one 1st day pick this year (29 slots after KC's first pick) and still put together an excellent draft.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 07:48 PM
Alright you know what Hootie.

You sat here and said the Chiefs would win all these games and they won 2..you pimped them as a playoff team and they won 4, I was right you were wrong so you can shut the fuck up about being a good fan. You're a fuckin retard fan.

So you know what you can do you can sit there and play with your pussy because it's all your good at. It must be fun going through life without a thought in your head of your own.

Sit there and play with your roommates cock and post about how it's cool, you're nothing but a little bitch that thinks he's cool parroting retarded shit on a forum.

Go fuck yourself with a rusty nailed dildo like the little bitch that you are.

You've been nothing but an unbearable fucking cunt all day that has no god damn opinion of his own as far as I'm concerned you can die in a fucking bucket of acid and it wouldn't make me sad.

Basileus777
04-26-2009, 07:49 PM
Alright you know what Hootie.

You sat here and said the Chiefs would win all these games and they won 2..you pimped them as a playoff team and they won 4, I was right you were wrong so you can shut the fuck up about being a good fan. You're a fuckin retard fan.

So you know what you can do you can sit there and play with your pussy because it's all your good at. It must be fun going through life without a thought in your head of your own.

Sit there and play with your roommates cock and post about how it's cool, you're nothing but a little bitch that thinks he's cool parroting retarded shit on a forum.

Go fuck yourself with a rusty nailed dildo like the little bitch that you are.

You've been nothing but an unbearable fucking cunt all day that has no god damn opinion of his own as far as I'm concerned you can die in a fucking bucket of acid and it wouldn't make me sad.

ROFL

And here we go.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 07:49 PM
Well, in this case, we're assuming for the better, and I don't think Cassel is going to be anything more than a game manager.

And what is with people thinking that a freaking 5 technique is so goddamn important?

Had we drafted BJ Raji at #3, and made the same comment, I would agree with you 110%.

Tyson Jackson is rumored to be the pick. People talk themselves into Tyson Jackson and overrate the importance of an occupier, not a playmaker. Just like all these tards who talked themselves into Pendergast and Cassel.

MIAdragon
04-26-2009, 07:50 PM
This thread is on the brink of becoming something special.

:)

Mecca
04-26-2009, 07:50 PM
Tyson Jackson is rumored to be the pick. People talk themselves into Tyson Jackson and overrate the importance of an occupier, not a playmaker. Just like all these tards who talked themselves into Pendergast and Cassel.

That's pretty much what has happened with Jackson a month ago that pick would have been considered a blunder.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2009, 07:51 PM
Tyson Jackson is rumored to be the pick. People talk themselves into Tyson Jackson and overrate the importance of an occupier, not a playmaker. Just like all these tards who talked themselves into Pendergast and Cassel.

I haven't been around this weekend, but was there an outcry when we passed on Curry?

Or was it an automatic acceptance of Jackson for no other reason than Pioli made the pick instead of Carl Peterson?

Mecca
04-26-2009, 07:52 PM
I haven't been around this weekend, but was there an outcry when we passed on Curry?

Or was it an automatic acceptance of Jackson for no other reason than Pioli made the pick instead of Carl Peterson?

There wasn't really a whole lot of bitching for Curry, Hamas made an anti Jackson thread a few agreed and got flamed.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 07:52 PM
You know what Mecca...

I just shredded the letter of recommendation I was writing on your behalf to Clark Hunt suggesting you as the next GM when Pioli gets fired after the season.

You have hurt my feelings.

Good day, sir.

LMAO

(Pick a new team if you're going to bitch about the draft...we are doing it the Patriots way now...and that seems to have worked pretty well for Pioli the first time around, guy.)

I trust Scott Pioli over you, Mecca Kiper. Get a haircut and help your mom with the dishes every once in a while, for christ's sake!

Mecca
04-26-2009, 07:54 PM
Man that was a hell of a comeback, when you actually do some research of your own you can join us at the adults table of football conversation.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2009, 07:54 PM
There wasn't really a whole lot of bitching for Curry, Hamas made an anti Jackson thread a few agreed and got flamed.

WHA?

All I've heard for the past 3 fucking months is how Aaron Curry is OBVIOUSLY the pick, and how stupid it would be not to take him if he were available.

So we pass on him, but it's OK, because Pioli made the pick, not Peterson?

That about right?

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 07:54 PM
Hamas was poised for a meltdown no matter what...

If we didn't draft Sanchez...we could have taken anyone else at #3 and he would have made the same "MOTHER FUCK SCOTT PIOLI!" thread...

It was just another thread for all of the drafturbators to hang out in and jerk each other for being such intellectuals. I bet Hamas goes to bars and only orders imports.

CanadaKC
04-26-2009, 07:56 PM
It's maybe a consolation that this draft was considered a poor one by usual standards...so although I wanted Curry...I have to stand by Pioli and trust his judgement. If this were a stronger draft we'd all be screaming bloddy murder. To me, hardly any of these players, with the exception of a few...really had much buzz...or if they did...as much negative as positive.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 07:56 PM
WHA?

All I've heard for the past 3 fucking months is how Aaron Curry is OBVIOUSLY the pick, and how stupid it would be not to take him if he were available.

So we pass on him, but it's OK, because Pioli made the pick, not Peterson?

That about right?

You summed it up pretty well.

TEX
04-26-2009, 07:56 PM
Last years draft everybody was saying it was the best one in years....we went 2-14.

Exactly, and our first was our worst...when you consider where he was picked.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 07:57 PM
Man that was a hell of a comeback, when you actually do some research of your own you can join us at the adults table of football conversation.

you're the same guy who used to talk about his draft board, right? ROFL

The bar I go to...there is this dude who is way off...he comes out every time the Cubs play and wears a full Cubs baseball uniform, glove, cleats...everything. To the bar.

You're that guy.

milkman
04-26-2009, 07:58 PM
WHA?

All I've heard for the past 3 ****ing months is how Aaron Curry is OBVIOUSLY the pick, and how stupid it would be not to take him if he were available.

So we pass on him, but it's OK, because Pioli made the pick, not Peterson?

That about right?

Hadn't really thought of that, but yeah, that's about it.

the Talking Can
04-26-2009, 07:58 PM
jesus, you guys are like the Heathers of football talk....

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/threadcount/heathers.jpg


can you ever turn off the drama?

Mecca
04-26-2009, 07:59 PM
Anyone who dresses like a player that is not a player, is a homo.

I think it's funny that Hootie has a real issue with people who actually take the time to form their opinion, thinking is such a jackass thing to do.

Skip Towne
04-26-2009, 07:59 PM
I gave Herm a year to prove himself and then turned on him. I will give Pioli some time as well. What label do I get?

Basileus777
04-26-2009, 07:59 PM
I wasn't happy with Tyson Jackson at #3. But the shit value the Browns got for trading down mollified me quite a bit. Since trading down wasn't worth it at that price, I'd rather have Jackson than Curry or Monroe. I guess I just resigned myself to the fact that we were in an awful position and were going to have to reach on someone.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 07:59 PM
Hadn't really thought of that, but yeah, that's about it.

God forbid us true fans have faith in a two time executive of the year...

We should all just bitch and complain about how awesome it would be if Clark would have hired Mecca Jenkins to run the team, with their own personal fluffer OTWP!!!!!

milkman
04-26-2009, 08:00 PM
I gave Herm a year to prove himself and then turned on him. I will give Pioli some time as well. What label do I get?

Old bastard.

Fat Elvis
04-26-2009, 08:00 PM
you're the same guy who used to talk about his draft board, right? ROFL

The bar I go to...there is this dude who is way off...he comes out every time the Cubs play and wears a full Cubs baseball uniform, glove, cleats...everything. To the bar.

You're that guy.

With long hair and goth eye liner.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 08:01 PM
Anyone who dresses like a player that is not a player, is a homo.

I think it's funny that Hootie has a real issue with people who actually take the time to form their opinion, thinking is such a jackass thing to do.

The REAL ISSUE is the constant pessimism. Plain and simple.

You guys are never content and troll the board with your whining...Carl was an idiot, Pioli is a HUGE idiot...

Did you ever stop and think..."you know what? I'm just an unhappy person!"

because I am fairly certain that's what it is.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 08:01 PM
I gave Herm a year to prove himself and then turned on him. I will give Pioli some time as well. What label do I get?

Rational.

milkman
04-26-2009, 08:01 PM
God forbid us true fans have faith in a two time executive of the year...

We should all just bitch and complain about how awesome it would be if Clark would have hired Mecca Jenkins to run the team, with their own personal fluffer OTWP!!!!!

So, the Pioli Smokers are so busy smoking Pioli, they can't express an opinion, one that they felt strongly about before the draft, suggesting that they didn't like the pick?

That about sum it up?

Skip Towne
04-26-2009, 08:02 PM
Old bastard.

I'd expect that from the young guys but you aren't that far behind me.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 08:02 PM
I wasn't happy with Tyson Jackson at #3. But the shit value the Browns got for trading down mollified me quite a bit. Since trading down wasn't worth it at that price, I'd rather have Jackson than Curry or Monroe. I guess I just resigned myself to the fact that we were in an awful position and were going to have to reach on someone.

strike 219 for Pioli!

Mecca
04-26-2009, 08:03 PM
So, the Pioli Smokers are so busy smoking Pioli, they can't express an opinion, one that they felt strongly about before the draft, suggesting that they didn't like the pick?

That about sum it up?

There ya go.

milkman
04-26-2009, 08:04 PM
I'd expect that from the young guys but you aren't that far behind me.

I do wear that label as well.

I just put you in my group.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 08:05 PM
So, the Pioli Smokers are so busy smoking Pioli, they can't express an opinion, one that they felt strongly about before the draft, suggesting that they didn't like the pick?

That about sum it up?

The Matt Cassel trade happened over a month ago.

Not only is it time to get over it, but it was time to get over it weeks ago...and the entire two days all we saw on this board was Mecca Jenkins bitching about how amazingly dumb and stupid and terrible and gay the Chiefs are.

Every once in a while this true fan would like to click on a thread and think to myself, "wow, we might be good for once!"

But nope, I get angry Mecca Jenkins jerkin' one another talking about how their draft board is so much better than TWO TIME EXECUTIVE OF THE YEAR Scott Pioli.

Dumb, dumb, dumb, DUMB.

Dumb.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 08:06 PM
The COOL thing is...

For ONCE in my life on this board...I'm a part of the majority rather than the minority.

Everyone is sick of Mecca Jenkins and their two personal fluffers DCS and OTWP, they just aren't speaking up about it. I have rep to prove it.

milkman
04-26-2009, 08:06 PM
The Matt Cassel trade happened over a month ago.

Not only is it time to get over it, but it was time to get over it weeks ago...and the entire two days all we saw on this board was Mecca Jenkins bitching about how amazingly dumb and stupid and terrible and gay the Chiefs are.

Every once in a while this true fan would like to click on a thread and think to myself, "wow, we might be good for once!"

But nope, I get angry Mecca Jenkins jerkin' one another talking about how their draft board is so much better than TWO TIME EXECUTIVE OF THE YEAR Scott Pioli.

Dumb, dumb, dumb, DUMB.

Dumb.

So what you're saying is that everyone should just smoke Pioli!

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 08:06 PM
Hamas was poised for a meltdown no matter what...

If we didn't draft Sanchez...we could have taken anyone else at #3 and he would have made the same "MOTHER FUCK SCOTT PIOLI!" thread...

It was just another thread for all of the drafturbators to hang out in and jerk each other for being such intellectuals. I bet Hamas goes to bars and only orders imports.

There is a 12 pack of Stag in my fridge right now, you stupid fuck.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 08:07 PM
There is a 12 pack of Stag in my fridge right now, you stupid ****.

That's behind close doors...I know what you order when you're out...I'm on to you.

Kyle DeLexus
04-26-2009, 08:08 PM
They're so important Chris Canty was a 4th rounder.

Chris Canty was also coming off a major knee injury and didn't play his senior season (4 games). He worked his ass off though and should have went higher.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 08:08 PM
So what you're saying is that everyone should just smoke Pioli!

Absolutely.

In three years, if we still suck, then feel free to litter this board with pessimism.

Until then, just STFU and watch a Royals game. If you want to get angry, tune in after the 7th inning.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 08:09 PM
That's behind close doors...I know what you order when you're out...I'm on to you.

With your posting history, it wouldn't surprise me if you did try to get on me.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 08:09 PM
Chris Canty was also coming off a major knee injury and didn't play his senior season. He worked his ass off though and should have went higher.

If they valued a 5 T this high why didn't we just sign him?

He'd have still been cheaper than Jackson is right now.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 08:10 PM
With your posting history, it wouldn't surprise me if you did try to get on me.
I'd rather be in you...

But that's a totally different thread.

I'm more of a power bottom though.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 08:11 PM
If they valued a 5 T this high why didn't we just sign him?

He'd have still been cheaper than Jackson is right now.

Here's a shot in the dark...

And this is just a guess...

Perhaps...

Just maybe...

They think Jackson is a better player than Canty?

Reaper16
04-26-2009, 08:11 PM
I hate anti-intellectualism.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 08:12 PM
Here's a shot in the dark...

And this is just a guess...

Perhaps...

Just maybe...

They think Jackson is a better player than Canty?

Canty/Olshansky and another player at 3, or Jackson and some scrub FA that's still on the market?

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2009, 08:13 PM
The COOL thing is...

For ONCE in my life on this board...I'm a part of the majority rather than the minority.

Everyone is sick of Mecca Jenkins and their two personal fluffers DCS and OTWP, they just aren't speaking up about it. I have rep to prove it.

So they are spineless, just like you?

If people don't like me, or what I have to say, they can put me on ignore. Won't bother me a bit.

As anyone who actually reads my posts can attest to, when the team does something worth applauding, I'm their biggest backer.

When they do something that makes me go WTF? - I speak up about it as well.

And I can't help but LOL at your incessant attempts to call me a "fluffer" of Mecca's, considering I've been the one person on the board that has butted heads with him more than anyone else on this forum. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree.

Tell you what: I'll continue to call it as I see it, as I've done for the 4 years I've been posting here, and you can continue to be the "look at me, I'm drunk again," meat-peeking attention whore you've been for your time here.

Deal?

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2009, 08:13 PM
If they valued a 5 T this high why didn't we just sign him?

He'd have still been cheaper than Jackson is right now.

Or Olshansky.

EDIT: OH NOES!!!111one!!!!! I was beaten to it! Time for Hootie to step in and tell me what a fluffer I am!

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 08:14 PM
Tell you what: I'll continue to call it as I see it, as I've done for the 4 years I've been posting here, and you can continue to be the "look at me, I'm drunk again," meat-peeking attention whore you've been for your time here.

Deal?

Deal.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 08:15 PM
I'd love for someone to sit here and tell me they'd rather have Matt Cassel Mike Vrabel and Tyson Jackson

Than Mark Sanchez, Rey Maualuga and Chris Canty.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 08:15 PM
Canty/Olshansky and another player at 3, or Jackson and some scrub FA that's still on the market?

and if we took Curry, Raji or Crabtree at 3...you still would have started that thread, am I right?

dirk digler
04-26-2009, 08:16 PM
Tyson Jackson is rumored to be the pick. People talk themselves into Tyson Jackson and overrate the importance of an occupier, not a playmaker. Just like all these tards who talked themselves into Pendergast and Cassel.

Well I agree with all that except for Pendergast. I haven't seen one peson say they like him

dirk digler
04-26-2009, 08:18 PM
WHA?

All I've heard for the past 3 fucking months is how Aaron Curry is OBVIOUSLY the pick, and how stupid it would be not to take him if he were available.

So we pass on him, but it's OK, because Pioli made the pick, not Peterson?

That about right?

in all fairness the news broke Friday so people were prepared for it.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 08:18 PM
I'd love for someone to sit here and tell me they'd rather have Matt Cassel Mike Vrabel and Tyson Jackson

Than Mark Sanchez, Rey Maualuga and Chris Canty.

They both sound pretty good to me.

Pioli liked Cassel better than he liked Sanchez.

Plain and simple.

That's what it boils down to.

And me, being an optimist about the only passion I have in life (Chiefs football), am hoping he is right, and Cassel turns out to be a great player.

You can doubt that all you want (and you will because you're unhappy), but I'm willing to watch the games and form my opinion from there, rather than pound my projection into the board and chastise everyone that remains positive about our new GM, three time Super Bowl Champion and two time executive of the year.

DeezNutz
04-26-2009, 08:19 PM
Someone owes me some money.

We stayed at #3, and Curry wasn't the selection...

As I've been saying for a long time, we sure as heck weren't drafting an OT or Curry.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 08:20 PM
and if we took Curry, Raji or Crabtree at 3...you still would have started that thread, am I right?

Curry doesn't make a lot of sense, but he was viewed as a top 8 pick, and at the very least he's gonna give you 120 tackles.

Raji was the best non QB pick there, and he would be the anchor of the D. That would have been a good pick.

Crabtree would have been stupid.

Actually, I think Maclin would have been a better pick than Crabtree.

So, as usual, you're completely wrong. Now go plagiarize some more shit from wikipedia so you can snort some parent candy.

tonyetony
04-26-2009, 08:21 PM
I'd love for someone to sit here and tell me they'd rather have Matt Cassel Mike Vrabel and Tyson Jackson

Than Mark Sanchez, Rey Maualuga and Chris Canty.

Ok I'll be the guy that says that. And me and every GM will give you guys your Everette Brown in top 15 of this draft also.

ChiefsCountry
04-26-2009, 08:22 PM
Someone owes me some money.

We stayed at #3, and Curry wasn't the selection...

As I've been saying for a long time, we sure as heck weren't drafting an OT or Curry.

Who was the dumb fuck who bet you?

luv
04-26-2009, 08:24 PM
A B? Were they grading on a curve?

milkman
04-26-2009, 08:24 PM
Curry doesn't make a lot of sense, but he was viewed as a top 8 pick, and at the very least he's gonna give you 120 tackles.

Raji was the best non QB pick there, and he would be the anchor of the D. That would have been a good pick.

Crabtree would have been stupid.

Actually, I think Maclin would have been a better pick than Crabtree.

So, as usual, you're completely wrong. Now go plagiarize some more shit from wikipedia so you can snort some parent candy.

Sorry, but I'd rather have Jackson than Curry.

Curry will give you 120 tackles, but until we have the horses in front of him on the D-Line, those tackles will come 5-8 yards downfield.

But, otherwise, carry on.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 08:24 PM
Ok I'll be the guy that says that. And me and every GM will give you guys your Everette Brown in top 15 of this draft also.

Explain to me why the 3 guys you're taking are better...

DeezNutz
04-26-2009, 08:24 PM
Who was the dumb **** who bet you?

I honestly need to dig up the post. The bet was for about $2800 in casino cash.

Same poster who was trying to get Hamas to lay $10000 to his $2500. Hamas, you certainly remember this exchange you had. Who was the poster?

Cause that dude owes both of us some cash. We're going to have to work out a payment plan.

Kyle DeLexus
04-26-2009, 08:25 PM
If they valued a 5 T this high why didn't we just sign him?

He'd have still been cheaper than Jackson is right now.

They probably still felt they had a legit shot to trade down and get Jackson. I would have loved to have signed Canty though. Picking at the spot we did we had to reach on someone or have 2 high dollar QB's on the roster. I might not have liked the Cassel trade, but I'm willing to give him a couple years to make judgment at the moment. I hope he surprises me, but I see where the FO was coming from.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 08:26 PM
They probably still felt they had a legit shot to trade down and get Jackson. I would have loved to have signed Canty though. Picking at the spot we did we had to reach on someone or have 2 high dollar QB's on the roster. I might not have liked the Cassel trade, but I'm willing to give him a couple years to make judgment at the moment. I hope he surprises me, but I see where the FO was coming from.

Saying you'll give Cassel a shot and saying you'd personally prefer Sanchez aren't really the same thing.

You can be willing to give him a chance and still express you personally think we made the wrong QB move.

Iowanian
04-26-2009, 08:27 PM
Chris Canty was also coming off a major knee injury and didn't play his senior season (4 games). He worked his ass off though and should have went higher.

And there were only about 4 teams I can think of running the 3-4 at the time, so there was less competition for some of those type of players. Sandy Eggo, Baltimore, Dallas and Pittsburg are the only ones I can think of running the 3-4 at that time.

One of the advantages of the 3-4 discussed during that time frame was their ability to grab the "tweener" tackles and light DEs for the OLB spots.

Kyle DeLexus
04-26-2009, 08:28 PM
Saying you'll give Cassel a shot and saying you'd personally prefer Sanchez aren't really the same thing.

You can be willing to give him a chance and still express you personally think we made the wrong QB move.

Oh I'm with you, I hope Cassel proves doubters wrong. I'm not one of the guys trying to argue with you, I just didn't agree with your Canty in the 4th take.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 08:29 PM
Sorry, but I'd rather have Jackson than Curry.

Curry will give you 120 tackles, but until we have the horses in front of him on the D-Line, those tackles will come 5-8 yards downfield.

But, otherwise, carry on.

I think you can find the horses to play in that scheme in the mid rounds, and two of them just signed pretty friendly FA deals just this offseason

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 08:30 PM
I honestly need to dig up the post. The bet was for about $2800 in casino cash.

Same poster who was trying to get Hamas to lay $10000 to his $2500. Hamas, you certainly remember this exchange you had. Who was the poster?

Cause that dude owes both of us some cash. We're going to have to work out a payment plan.

sportsshrink. I started a thread about it today.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 08:30 PM
Either way the point I was trying to make is there were 2 5 T's in FA this year that could have been had much cheaper than Jackson is at 3.

Hoover
04-26-2009, 08:30 PM
We got a B because Piloi drafted it. If it had been anyone else it would have been a C- or D

milkman
04-26-2009, 08:33 PM
I think you can find the horses to play in that scheme in the mid rounds, and two of them just signed pretty friendly FA deals just this offseason

I don't disagree, but you can find LBs like in the mid rounds as well, so if I have to choose a horse or a cart (LB) at the top, I'm taking the horse.

DeezNutz
04-26-2009, 08:34 PM
sportsshrink. I started a thread about it today.

Thank you.

ChiefRon
04-26-2009, 08:34 PM
I don't think that's espn's grades, those are grades by the fans aren't they?

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 08:35 PM
I don't disagree, but you can find LBs like in the mid rounds as well, so if I have to choose a horse or a cart (LB) at the top, I'm taking the horse.

Yes, you can. Both are bad value there.

ChiefRon
04-26-2009, 08:38 PM
Either way the point I was trying to make is there were 2 5 T's in FA this year that could have been had much cheaper than Jackson is at 3.

I still don't know why we didn't go after Canty. Then we could have taken Raji and I sure would feel better about things.

Kyle DeLexus
04-26-2009, 08:39 PM
I still don't know why we didn't go after Canty. Then we could have taken Raji and I sure would feel better about things.

Canty would have been a great signing, but remember it takes two to tango. He might not have wanted anything to do with us.

milkman
04-26-2009, 08:40 PM
Yes, you can. Both are bad value there.

So all we are debating is, which is worse value.

Basileus777
04-26-2009, 08:40 PM
Raji is the only pick we could have made at #3 that would have been good value.

Direckshun
04-26-2009, 08:40 PM
You guys are never content and troll the board with your whining...

Did you ever stop and think..."you know what? I'm just an unhappy person!"

because I am fairly certain that's what it is.

God, the irony is just dripping from this post.

tonyetony
04-26-2009, 08:42 PM
Explain to me why the 3 guys you're taking are better...

Cassel vs Sanchez- We're both speculating. I prefer to go with Pioli and Mcdaniels and his NFL experience. You prefer Sanchez's college experience and the draft experts upside evaluation. Time will tell.

I like Vrable for his leadership and his winning attitude that we haven't had linebacker for a long time. I know he's a stop gap but we know what level he's capable of playing at.

Jackson was Pioli's man all along so I am going out on limb and going to trust his judgement on this. Canty might not be around as long as Vrable at this point so looking for a long term Seymore type solution to our most glaring weakness might prove wise in the end.

The great part is we are both speculating and the answers are coming. As a Chief Fan you have to be hoping a little that I'm right.

Noss
04-26-2009, 08:45 PM
Last years draft everybody was saying it was the best one in years....we went 2-14.

I don't care about 'todays' draft grade. The bottom line of the draft grade is the season record.

EyePod
04-26-2009, 08:45 PM
1 WTF pick, 2 Huge Needs filled, and the rest weren't terrible, just not what I would have chosen. I say that's a really solid draft.

DeezNutz
04-26-2009, 08:48 PM
Where are all the Curry advocates?

How mad are they at their boy for passing on the OBVIOUS top prospect in the draft?

Can you believe this bullshit? How is this not a thread?

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 08:48 PM
So all we are debating is, which is worse value.

p. much.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 08:49 PM
Where are all the Curry advocates?

How mad are they at their boy for passing on the OBVIOUS top prospect in the draft?

Can you believe this bullshit? How is this not a thread?

Furiously editing their posts in recxjake style to show their love for Tyson Jackson.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 08:50 PM
Cassel vs Sanchez- We're both speculating. I prefer to go with Pioli and Mcdaniels and his NFL experience. You prefer Sanchez's college experience and the draft experts upside evaluation. Time will tell.

I like Vrable for his leadership and his winning attitude that we haven't had linebacker for a long time. I know he's a stop gap but we know what level he's capable of playing at.

Jackson was Pioli's man all along so I am going out on limb and going to trust his judgement on this. Canty might not be around as long as Vrable at this point so looking for a long term Seymore type solution to our most glaring weakness might prove wise in the end.

The great part is we are both speculating and the answers are coming. As a Chief Fan you have to be hoping a little that I'm right.

Our most glaring weakness was rushing the passer. Tyson Jackson is not a pass rusher.

tmax63
04-26-2009, 08:51 PM
Is it just possible that a couple of weeks ago the Chiefs thought that a trade down was a sure thing and that they go down a few of picks, pick up an extra pick and still get Jackson and somebody else? Then when everyone in the top 5 decided that Sanchez wasn't the only pick in the 1st round and trade offers went bu-bye, they picked the best player available to help the team the most regardless of where everyone saw him getting picked because their next pick was the next day?

ChiefsCountry
04-26-2009, 08:51 PM
God, the irony is just dripping from this post.

Its like a train wreck.

DeezNutz
04-26-2009, 08:51 PM
Furiously editing their posts in recxjake style to show their love for Tyson Jackson.

Would you like to do the honors, Hamas Jefferson, of penning an opus to call these posters out on their bullshit?

I've heard so much about fucking Curry for the past two months that this shit should not go so quietly into the night.

It might be time for the "Gang of 14" to write an amendment.

veist
04-26-2009, 08:51 PM
I'm pretty sure Mecca is on record saying more than once that he hopes he's wrong about Cassel so its not like he's being contrary just for the sake of being contrary. He has strong opinions and largely sticks to them, its better than the waffling and obnoxious rose-colored glasses optimism of Hootie.

Basileus777
04-26-2009, 08:52 PM
Would you like to do the honors, Hamas Jefferson, of penning an opus to call these posters out on their bullshit?

I've heard so much about fucking Curry for the past two months that this shit should not go so quietly into the night.

It might be time for the "Gang of 14" to write an amendment.

Please don't. Just let it die, I never want to hear about Curry again.

Raised On Riots
04-26-2009, 08:53 PM
Just because the Company Cook gives you some salt for your "shit on a shingle", you're still eating shit on a shingle.

milkman
04-26-2009, 08:53 PM
I don't care about 'todays' draft grade. The bottom line of the draft grade is the season record.

No, the season after the draft doesn't show the true value of that draft, unless you're the Chiefs and you completely undermine the future value of that draft by changing to an entirely different scheme that so many of the players from that draft don't fit.

tonyetony
04-26-2009, 08:54 PM
Ok, so where are the draft chart value freaks also. I think there might have been a chance to trade down to the Redskins and pick up a 2nd rounder and still get Jackson. Please explain to me how the tried, true and tested draft value chart worked out today.

tonyetony
04-26-2009, 08:56 PM
Our most glaring weakness was rushing the passer. Tyson Jackson is not a pass rusher.

Our D-line sucked in every facet. Jackson can't hurt.

DeezNutz
04-26-2009, 08:57 PM
Ok, so where are the draft chart value freaks also. I think there might have been a chance to trade down to the Redskins and pick up a 2nd rounder and still get Jackson. Please explain to me how the tried, true and tested draft value chart worked out today.

There are a lot of good examples in this draft of teams receiving great value in return for dropping down.

Just because Cleveland dropped down to their knees doesn't prove a thing.

In many cases, the chart was absolutely valid.

milkman
04-26-2009, 08:59 PM
There are a lot of good examples in this draft of teams receiving great value in return for dropping down.

Just because Cleveland dropped down to their knees doesn't prove a thing.

In many cases, the chart was absolutely valid.

Bill Belichick got good value in every one of his trades.

HemiEd
04-26-2009, 08:59 PM
I guarantee 100% Albert and Flowers are and will be better than anyone that the Chiefs drafted this year.

You might be right, but you have to listen to what Pioli has said, if nothing else.

Not looking for pro bowlers, he is looking for team members that will come together.

Obviously, they feel confident, these guys they picked today, will meld in with the core that they chose to keep, from the previous regime.

Come on guys, he already explained it, we just have to listen.

I feel confident, this team may finally start giving some pressure on defense, and it has been a while since we could say that.

Noss
04-26-2009, 09:00 PM
No, the season after the draft doesn't show the true value of that draft, unless you're the Chiefs and you completely undermine the future value of that draft by changing to an entirely different scheme that so many of the players from that draft don't fit.

If a draft doesn't improve your teams record it wasn't a good draft. You are as good as your record.

DeezNutz
04-26-2009, 09:01 PM
You might be right, but you have to listen to what Pioli has said, if nothing else.

Not looking for pro bowlers, he is looking for team members that will come together.

Obviously, they feel confident, these guys they picked today, will meld in with the core that they chose to keep, from the previous regime.

Come on guys, he already explained it, we just have to listen.

I feel confident, this team may finally start giving some pressure on defense, and it has been a while since we could say that.

I have no problem with anything you've written here.

But, come on. If Pioli and co. aren't looking for Pro Bowlers, they should really be fired immediately.

This reminds me of when the Royals said they'd win a lot of games with 11 or 25 or 53 Ross Gloads. Fuck...

You have to have stars to win.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2009, 09:02 PM
If a draft doesn't improve your teams record it wasn't a good draft. You are as good as your record.

Are you kidding?

Using that logic, last year's draft was garbage, because we went 2-14.

That's beyond ridiculous.

milkman
04-26-2009, 09:03 PM
If a draft doesn't improve your teams record it wasn't a good draft. You are as good as your record.

This is just about as bright as the post that suggested that we should have traded straight up with the Skins for 13.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 09:03 PM
Would you like to do the honors, Hamas Jefferson, of penning an opus to call these posters out on their bullshit?

I've heard so much about fucking Curry for the past two months that this shit should not go so quietly into the night.

It might be time for the "Gang of 14" to write an amendment.

The Aaron Curry Corollary to the Pioli Principle:

If a guy looks like he's going to be the pick of the Chiefs, he's the greatest of all time, you can see intensity drip from his eyes over the fractured pixelation of YouTube and he'll be able to do things he's never done before just by the mere happenstance that he was drafted by Lord Linguine.

If a guy is projected as a 15-25 pick and he is taken by your team a half round before his projection, he's an impact player who will be able to do things he hasn't done before just by the mere happenstance that he was drafted by the God of Gnocchi.

If the 58th rated OT is drafted by the Archduke of Agnolotti when top 10 tackles are available, he's a mountain of a man with an ability to be a mauler on the right side and he's solved the problems of our O-line, even if he had his ass whipped every time he faced any legit pro prospect.

If a QB is available via trade, he's fucking terrible and the Viceroy of Vermicelli should be fired. If he is then traded for, he's a future franchise cornerstone, better than a Pro Bowl QB in the same division who fetched 3x as much in return.

It should also be noted that there is a college QB amendment. No college QB is ever worthy of being drafted before round 6.

tonyetony
04-26-2009, 09:03 PM
There are a lot of good examples in this draft of teams receiving great value in return for dropping down.

Just because Cleveland dropped down to their knees doesn't prove a thing.

In many cases, the chart was absolutely valid.

Would that be good value on the chart to pick up a third in this years draft and second in next years draft to slide down to the Skins pick knowing the guy you want will probably be there? Hell how about just a third this year and still getting Jackson and saving the cap?

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 09:03 PM
Are you kidding?

Using that logic, last year's draft was garbage, because we went 2-14.

That's beyond ridiculous.

2003 draft, GOAT!! 6 win improvement!!

T-post Tom
04-26-2009, 09:04 PM
Grading a draft the day it ends? :rolleyes:

ChiefsCountry
04-26-2009, 09:04 PM
Guess the 1989 Cowboys Draft was a complete failure for them.

milkman
04-26-2009, 09:06 PM
Guess the 1989 Cowboys Draft was a complete failure for them.

Isn't it obvious?

DeezNutz
04-26-2009, 09:07 PM
The Aaron Curry Corollary to the Pioli Principle:

If a guy looks like he's going to be the pick of the Chiefs, he's the greatest of all time, you can see intensity drip from his eyes over the fractured pixelation of YouTube and he'll be able to do things he's never done before just by the mere happenstance that he was drafted by Lord Linguine.

If a guy is projected as a 15-25 pick and he is taken by your team a half round before his projection, he's an impact player who will be able to do things he hasn't done before just by the mere happenstance that he was drafted by the God of Gnocchi.

If the 58th rated OT is drafted by the Archduke of Agnolotti when top 10 tackles are available, he's a mountain of a man with an ability to be a mauler on the right side and he's solved the problems of our O-line, even if he had his ass whipped every time he faced any legit pro prospect.

If a QB is available via trade, he's ****ing terrible and the Viceroy of Vermicelli should be fired. If he is then traded for, he's a future franchise cornerstone, better than a Pro Bowl QB in the same division who fetched 3x as much in return.

It should also be noted that there is a college QB amendment. No college QB is ever worthy of being drafted before round 6.

ROFL

This needs to be the foundation of its own thread, especially in light of the Mecca/Hamas/Dane thread.

Well done.

Saccopoo
04-26-2009, 09:07 PM
Where are all the Curry advocates?

How mad are they at their boy for passing on the OBVIOUS top prospect in the draft?

Pretty mad, actually. I was livid last night, especially after the Magee selection. Jackson made some sense, but was a relatively large reach. If he's not the veritable second coming of Richard Seymour, and we pissed away another first round/high draft pick on a DT/DE type guy that isn't a complete standout, I will be quite unhappy, especially if Curry or Crabtree or Monroe ends up in the Pro Bowl in the next couple of years.

I understand that we needed a dedicated 3-4 defensive end, and Jackson was about the only guy that filled that bill in this draft, and he was a pretty good player for a good college team in a competitive division, so I'm semi-okay with it. Yeah, I would have preferred Curry, but I can live with Jackson. Magee - not so much.

ChiefsCountry
04-26-2009, 09:09 PM
Isn't it obvious?

Aikman, Moose Johnston, Mark Stephnoski and Tony Tolbert must have had shitty careers after that 1-15 season after they were drafted.

DeezNutz
04-26-2009, 09:09 PM
Pretty mad, actually. I was livid last night, especially after the Magee selection. Jackson made some sense, but was a relatively large reach. If he's not the veritable second coming of Richard Seymour, and we pissed away another first round/high draft pick on a DT/DE type guy that isn't a complete standout, I will be quite unhappy, especially if Curry or Crabtree or Monroe ends up in the Pro Bowl in the next couple of years.

I understand that we needed a dedicated 3-4 defensive end, and Jackson was about the only guy that filled that bill in this draft, and he was a pretty good player for a good college team in a competitive division, so I'm semi-okay with it. Yeah, I would have preferred Curry, but I can live with Jackson. Magee - not so much.

I give you credit for owning up.

milkman
04-26-2009, 09:11 PM
Aikman, Moose Johnston, Mark Stephnoski and Tony Tolbert must have had shitty careers after that 1-15 season after they were drafted.

Yep.

We need to hire private detectives to find them now.

Raised On Riots
04-26-2009, 09:11 PM
The Aaron Curry Corollary to the Pioli Principle:

If a guy looks like he's going to be the pick of the Chiefs, he's the greatest of all time, you can see intensity drip from his eyes over the fractured pixelation of YouTube and he'll be able to do things he's never done before just by the mere happenstance that he was drafted by Lord Linguine.

If a guy is projected as a 15-25 pick and he is taken by your team a half round before his projection, he's an impact player who will be able to do things he hasn't done before just by the mere happenstance that he was drafted by the God of Gnocchi.

If the 58th rated OT is drafted by the Archduke of Agnolotti when top 10 tackles are available, he's a mountain of a man with an ability to be a mauler on the right side and he's solved the problems of our O-line, even if he had his ass whipped every time he faced any legit pro prospect.

If a QB is available via trade, he's fucking terrible and the Viceroy of Vermicelli should be fired. If he is then traded for, he's a future franchise cornerstone, better than a Pro Bowl QB in the same division who fetched 3x as much in return.

It should also be noted that there is a college QB amendment. No college QB is ever worthy of being drafted before round 6.

ROFL Absolute Gold.

Noss
04-26-2009, 09:13 PM
Are you kidding?

Using that logic, last year's draft was garbage, because we went 2-14.

That's beyond ridiculous.

So you think the 'good Herm drafts' for the last three years as the Chiefs went from 9-7, 4-12, to 2-14 was making the Chiefs better? :eek:

That's beyond ridiculous!:rolleyes:

HemiEd
04-26-2009, 09:14 PM
Here's a shot in the dark...

And this is just a guess...

Perhaps...

Just maybe...

They think Jackson is a better player than Canty?

Or maybe a better team member, a better fit. He is trying to put together a team, not aquire pro bowlers.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2009, 09:17 PM
So you think the 'good Herm drafts' for the last three years as the Chiefs went from 9-7, 4-12, to 2-14 was making the Chiefs better? :eek:

That's beyond ridiculous!:rolleyes:

You're going to blame Dorsey, Albert, Flowers, Charles, Cottam, Morgan, Carr - all rookies - for the Chiefs going 2-14 last year?

So when we go 3-13 this year, are you going to sack up and say that Pioli's draft was shitty?

Afterall,

If a draft doesn't improve your teams record it wasn't a good draft. You are as good as your record.

DeezNutz
04-26-2009, 09:17 PM
He is trying to put together a team, not aquire pro bowlers.

Dude...

Have you ever seen a high-quality "team" that was short on Pro-Bowlers?

RippedmyFlesh
04-26-2009, 09:19 PM
Canty would have been a great signing, but remember it takes two to tango. He might not have wanted anything to do with us.
Exactly which is why I don't get the pioli bashing about FA. He went after haynseworth and scott.Prob not easy recruiting which is what FA is nowdays..when you are 2-14. I think pioli would have loved to have fixed the dline through FA but if they don't want to come here what can you do?

Raised On Riots
04-26-2009, 09:19 PM
So you think the 'good Herm drafts' for the last three years as the Chiefs went from 9-7, 4-12, to 2-14 was making the Chiefs better? :eek:

That's beyond ridiculous!:rolleyes:

Last years draft took Pioli out to the alley by the scruff of his neck, beat the fuck out of him, and threw him in the dumpster for shits and giggles.

Noss
04-26-2009, 09:23 PM
You're going to blame Dorsey, Albert, Flowers, Charles, Cottam, Morgan, Carr - all rookies - for the Chiefs going 2-14 last year?

So when we go 3-13 this year, are you going to sack up and say that Pioli's draft was shitty?

Afterall,

No. Because 3-13 is an improvement from 2-14.:evil:

HemiEd
04-26-2009, 09:23 PM
I have no problem with anything you've written here.

But, come on. If Pioli and co. aren't looking for Pro Bowlers, they should really be fired immediately.

This reminds me of when the Royals said they'd win a lot of games with 11 or 25 or 53 Ross Gloads. ****...
You have to have stars to win.


Well, we may connect the rest of the dots differently. Ii am assuming obviously, he is looking for the best player, but fitting into the team, is of the highest priority,

Approaching the draft the same way, when you are continually getting worse, would seem close to the definition of insanity.

Ok, lets take the best player no matter what, and hope we can make him fit. Never mind he has these issues we don't think will fit in and thrive.


Or, know who is going to fit ahead of time, and take those guys.

I could be all wet, but that is what I am seeing,.

Just Passin' By
04-26-2009, 09:24 PM
Dude...

Have you ever seen a high-quality "team" that was short on Pro-Bowlers?

Depends on what you mean by "short", really.

RippedmyFlesh
04-26-2009, 09:25 PM
Last years draft took Pioli out to the alley by the scruff of his neck, beat the fuck out of him, and threw him in the dumpster for shits and giggles.
We controlled the draft last year with the picks we had. I like the guys we got but gives those same picks to the colts,pitt,balt,philly,nyg,ne just off the top of my head and you would have a list of players as good if not better than dorsey albert flowers carr etc,,,

Mecca
04-26-2009, 09:26 PM
I think his point is the best teams in the league have top of the line players, they aren't just a bunch of good hard workin guys that try hard.

DeezNutz
04-26-2009, 09:26 PM
Well, we may connect the rest of the dots differently. Ii am assuming obviously, he is looking for the best player, but fitting into the team, is of the highest priority,

Approaching the draft the same way, when you are continually getting worse, would seem close to the definition of insanity.

Ok, lets take the best player no matter what, and hope we can make him fit. Never mind he has these issues we don't think will fit in and thrive.


Or, know who is going to fit ahead of time, and take those guys.

I could be all wet, but that is what I am seeing,.

I know what you're saying, but it's a give and take.

Talent and winning go a long way to building "chemistry" and "team," yet there have essentially been all-star teams in sports history that haven't won crap.

There needs to be a middle ground, but the "not looking for Pro-Bowlers" line rings hollow to me.

DeezNutz
04-26-2009, 09:27 PM
I think his point is the best teams in the league have top of the line players, they aren't just a bunch of good hard workin guys that try hard.

Yes.

Just Passin' By
04-26-2009, 09:29 PM
I think his point is the best teams in the league have top of the line players, they aren't just a bunch of good hard workin guys that try hard.

Well, naturally, talent is important. It's just not the end all and be all. Shit, the situations with T.O. should have made this so abundantly clear that nobody even questions it.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 09:31 PM
I think his point is the best teams in the league have top of the line players, they aren't just a bunch of good hard workin guys that try hard.

Another instance where the underdog mentality raises its head. They latch on to the "right" guys quote, not realizing that those guys aren't right when they aren't surrounded by HOF talent.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 09:33 PM
Well, naturally, talent is important. It's just not the end all and be all. Shit, the situations with T.O. should have made this so abundantly clear that nobody even questions it.

Lawrence Taylor was a world class cocksucker, crackhead and generally a pure fuckup that Grandpa Parcells, the disciplinarian of disciplinarians, wouldn't do anything to...why? Because he had world-class talent.

HemiEd
04-26-2009, 09:33 PM
I know what you're saying, but it's a give and take.

Talent and winning go a long way to building "chemistry" and "team," yet there have essentially been all-star teams in sports history that haven't won crap.

There needs to be a middle ground, but the "not looking for Pro-Bowlers" line rings hollow to me.
I understand, they haven't given out a lot of info, but they did say that, didn't they? I don't think it was literal, and I was trying to convey the point they made, since it may apply here.

Maybe I did a poor job of trying to make my point, I am going to give them a shot and see what happens.

I must admit, I was more than a little shocked on most of the picks. But I don't know much. The Mizzou giant is the one I can least rationalize.

RippedmyFlesh
04-26-2009, 09:33 PM
I think his point is the best teams in the league have top of the line players, they aren't just a bunch of good hard workin guys that try hard.
In a salary cap era you have to have the mix of both. No cap then you could just build great talent everywhere.
Because its really the cap that forces you to get the hard workers/cheap players.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 09:39 PM
Ok but I don't wanna hear this argument that NE doesn't have stars and they have the right players...

Anyone who doesn't think NE is loaded with star power and top of the line players isn't playing with a full deck.

Just Passin' By
04-26-2009, 09:43 PM
Lawrence Taylor was a world class one who sucks the penis, crackhead and generally a pure ****up that Grandpa Parcells, the disciplinarian of disciplinarians, wouldn't do anything to...why? Because he had world-class talent.

Sure, and the Red Sox put up with Ramirez until he became more trouble than he was worth. Every team has to find its comfort level with the sort of crap it's willing to accept. Talent isn't all that matters. In the end, it's still about the team, and it has to function well enough together to win.

Just Passin' By
04-26-2009, 09:44 PM
Ok but I don't wanna hear this argument that NE doesn't have stars and they have the right players...

Anyone who doesn't think NE is loaded with star power and top of the line players isn't playing with a full deck.

How many teams have no stars at all? The Patriots won the 2001 Super Bowl with only 3 Pro Bowlers on the roster, as I recall.

HemiEd
04-26-2009, 09:53 PM
Ok but I don't wanna hear this argument that NE doesn't have stars and they have the right players...

Anyone who doesn't think NE is loaded with star power and top of the line players isn't playing with a full deck.

I agree, no question. But were they ALL Stars, prior to being drafted? Or, did a lot of them thrive with the Patriots?

Believe me, I have more than a few reservatioons about this draft. I am just trying to understand why they did, what they did.

I don't think they are stupid, or uninformed, do you?

htismaqe
04-26-2009, 09:56 PM
I agree, no question. But were they ALL Stars, prior to being drafted? Or, did a lot of them thrive with the Patriots?

Believe me, I have more than a few reservatioons about this draft. I am just trying to understand why they did, what they did.

I don't think they are stupid, or uninformed, do you?

Pats fans talked about Seymour and Warren in the exact same way Jackson is being discussed here.

Pioli Zombie
04-26-2009, 09:57 PM
What does ESPN know?. Mecca/Hamas/Dane et al feel otherwise so they must be right.
Posted via Mobile Device

Chocolate Hog
04-26-2009, 10:00 PM
Like Whitlock said Jackson wouldn't lead the NFL in sacks but if he's a solid player its still a good pick. Thats more then most of the Chiefs first round picks.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 10:00 PM
How many teams have no stars at all? The Patriots won the 2001 Super Bowl with only 3 Pro Bowlers on the roster, as I recall.

And Brady, Light, Seymour, Vrabel, Bruschi, Milloy, and Woody would all go to Pro Bowls shortly thereafter.

It wasn't like they had 3 high quality players, and that's it.

Raised On Riots
04-26-2009, 10:01 PM
What does ESPN know?. Mecca/Hamas/Dane et al feel otherwise so they must be right.
Posted via Mobile Device

Question:

What IS the going salary for a quality shill these days?

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 10:01 PM
Like Whitlock said Jackson wouldn't lead the NFL in sacks but if he's a solid player its still a good pick. Thats more then most of the Chiefs first round picks.

No, it's not. You don't give a solid player more money than James Harrison.

Just Passin' By
04-26-2009, 10:02 PM
Pats fans talked about Seymour and Warren in the exact same way Jackson is being discussed here.

The famous Ron Borges quote:

“On a day when they could have had impact players David Terrell or Koren Robinson or the second-best tackle in the draft in Kenyatta Walker, they took Georgia defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who had 1 sack last season in the pass-happy SEC and is too tall to play tackle at 6-6 and too slow to play defensive end. This genius move was followed by trading out of a spot where they could have gotten the last decent receiver in Robert Ferguson and settled for tackle Matt Light, who will not help any time soon.”

Pioli Zombie
04-26-2009, 10:02 PM
This is exactly how Patriot fans reacted the first few drafts. Finally after the 2nd Super Bowl win they started to respect that maybe Belichick and Pioli knew what they were doing.

But they idiots for picking Seymour instead of David Terrell. They were idiots for Ty Warren instead of trading up for Dwayne Robertson. They were idiots for cutting Lawyer Milloy and going with youngsters like Asante Samuel. Blah blah blah blah.

Same shit.
Posted via Mobile Device

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2009, 10:04 PM
The famous Ron Borges quote:

And everyone who follows the NFL knows that Ron Borges is a fucking retard.

Your point?

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 10:04 PM
Pats fans talked about Seymour and Warren in the exact same way Jackson is being discussed here.

If he turns into Ty Warren, it's not a good pick. It's not horrible, but I'm sorry, you don't give Ty Warren 25-30 million guaranteed.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 10:05 PM
They cut Lawyer Milloy to play that vaunted youngster Rodney Harrison.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 10:06 PM
This is exactly how Patriot fans reacted the first few drafts. Finally after the 2nd Super Bowl win they started to respect that maybe Belichick and Pioli knew what they were doing.

But they idiots for picking Seymour instead of David Terrell. They were idiots for Ty Warren instead of trading up for Dwayne Robertson. They were idiots for cutting Lawyer Milloy and going with youngsters like Asante Samuel. Blah blah blah blah.

Same shit.
Posted via Mobile Device

Bill Belichick isn't walking through that door. Tom Brady isn't walking through that door and Thomas Dimitroff isn't walking through that door.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2009, 10:06 PM
Bill Belichick isn't walking through that door. Tom Brady isn't walking through that door and Thomas Dimitroff isn't walking through that door.

LMAO

ChiefRon
04-26-2009, 10:06 PM
I think we also have to understand this.

The Pats org have scouting setup differently than we do, and our scouts have been taught/trained how to do some things differently than Pioli + Haley expected.

They referenced this in the pre-draft conference.

I expect we'll be making changes in the scouting dept and next years draft will be much different in approach and it will show on draft day.

I think our FO was put together so late in the process, the changes could not have been practically accomplished in the amount of time remaining before the draft.

Just Passin' By
04-26-2009, 10:08 PM
And Brady, Light, Seymour, Vrabel, Bruschi, Milloy, and Woody would all go to Pro Bowls shortly thereafter.

It wasn't like they had 3 high quality players, and that's it.

You just keep changing the parameters to suit your will, so trying to talk rationally about this with you is just a waste of time.

HemiEd
04-26-2009, 10:08 PM
Pats fans talked about Seymour and Warren in the exact same way Jackson is being discussed here.

Yeah, I thought that had been mentioned. Thank you, it makes a lot of sense.

Do you think we will have some pressure on the QB again, or stop the run better?

htismaqe
04-26-2009, 10:09 PM
If he turns into Ty Warren, it's not a good pick. It's not horrible, but I'm sorry, you don't give Ty Warren 25-30 million guaranteed.

It's easy to see why you're upset. You narrowed this entire draft down to one player and we didn't take him.

I get it, I really do. I just can't bring myself to get all worked up about it.

Pioli Zombie
04-26-2009, 10:09 PM
They cut Lawyer Milloy to play that vaunted youngster Rodney Harrison.

Mecca the Patriot expert. Football teams play 2 safeties. Milloy and Harrison were going to both play. But they had youngsters like Eugene Wilson and Asante Samuel that they had just drafted. They cut Milloy because he wasn't worth his contract and Milloy wouldn't agree to a paycut. They released Milloy and played Wilson.

Everyone freaked out. The Patriots were proven right.
Posted via Mobile Device

htismaqe
04-26-2009, 10:11 PM
Yeah, I thought that had been mentioned. Thank you, it makes a lot of sense.

Do you think we will have some pressure on the QB again, or stop the run better?

I'm much more worried about stopping the run. We were awful against the run and it was simply overshadowed by our record-setting futility at rushing the passer.

Stopping the run is by far the most important thing for a defense.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 10:11 PM
I think we also have to understand this.

The Pats org have scouting setup differently than we do, and our scouts have been taught/trained how to do some things differently than Pioli + Haley expected.

They referenced this in the pre-draft conference.

I expect we'll be making changes in the scouting dept and next years draft will be much different in approach and it will show on draft day.

I think our FO was put together so late in the process, the changes could not have been practically accomplished in the amount of time remaining before the draft.

Dimitroff was the Patriots DIRECTOR of scouting and look at how he conducted his first offseason:

Franchise QB
Franchise LT
Get a RB to protect the QB

next year

Pass Catching Red Zone threat to help QBs development


Offense is set.

So what do we do?

Penetrating DT
Ball hawking safety
pass rusher
road grader


Nowhere in there did I see Dimitroff needing to completely revamp their scouting department, or taking a pure Patriot approach to drafting. He also didn't scrap what talent he had on D to put a square peg into a round hole and then spent an entire draft burning picks to fit the scheme when the value was elsewhere.

That scouting department excuse is just CYA for Pioli.

Pioli Zombie
04-26-2009, 10:12 PM
Yeah, I thought that had been mentioned. Thank you, it makes a lot of sense.

Do you think we will have some pressure on the QB again, or stop the run better?

No. Jackson can't do anything. He totally sucks shit. That's why Pioli drafted him. Duh.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mecca
04-26-2009, 10:12 PM
You said Samuel...and anyone who thought they had illusions of playing Milloy and Harrison together always made me laugh.

I think playing 2 strong safeties who run at speeds that need a sun dial would have done wonders for their defense.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 10:12 PM
Dimitroff was the Patriots DIRECTOR of scouting and look at how he conducted his first offseason:

Franchise QB
Franchise LT
Get a RB to protect the QB

next year

Pass Catching Red Zone threat to help QBs development


Offense is set.

So what do we do?

Penetrating DT
Ball hawking safety
pass rusher
road grader


Nowhere in there did I see Dimitroff needing to completely revamp their scouting department, or taking a pure Patriot approach to drafting. He also didn't scrap what talent he had on D to put a square peg into a round hole and then spent an entire draft burning picks to fit the scheme when the value was elsewhere.

That scouting department excuse is just CYA for Pioli.

He also didn't shoehorn them into a 3-4 or some variation of it.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 10:14 PM
It's easy to see why you're upset. You narrowed this entire draft down to one player and we didn't take him.

I get it, I really do. I just can't bring myself to get all worked up about it.

Seriously dude. Wow.

Look at the list of picks I drew up that we could have made

1. Mark Sanchez
2. Everette Brown
3. Jarron Gilbert
4. Lawrence Sidbury or Andre Brown
5. Jamon Meredith
6. Coye Francies
7. AQ Shipley
7. Dannell Ellerbe
7. Darry Beckwith

If you think it boils down to just one pick, you're either uninformed, or just being overtly dishonest.

HemiEd
04-26-2009, 10:14 PM
I'm much more worried about stopping the run. We were awful against the run and it was simply overshadowed by our record-setting futility at rushing the passer.

Stopping the run is by far the most important thing for a defense.

Yep, and it didn't matter whether Gunther was upstairs, downstairs, or coaching line backers, they just kept getting worse at it.

Raised On Riots
04-26-2009, 10:15 PM
I'm much more worried about stopping the run. We were awful against the run and it was simply overshadowed by our record-setting futility at rushing the passer.

Stopping the run is by far the most important thing for a defense.

That's okay, no one runs anymore.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 10:15 PM
No one who is really pissed is pissed because of one pick, it's a culmination of consistently taking bad value round after round.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 10:15 PM
You just keep changing the parameters to suit your will, so trying to talk rationally about this with you is just a waste of time.

I'm not changing any parameters. They had 3 guys who made the 2001 Pro Bowl. They had about 10 guys who would were Pro Bowlers starting on that team. It's dishonest to talk about that 2001 team as totally bereft of talent. It was anything but.

Just Passin' By
04-26-2009, 10:16 PM
If he turns into Ty Warren, it's not a good pick. It's not horrible, but I'm sorry, you don't give Ty Warren 25-30 million guaranteed.

The money is what it is, regardless of who was available. It was not a draft where a team could get elite players at positions that would suit you.

Chocolate Hog
04-26-2009, 10:16 PM
No, it's not. You don't give a solid player more money than James Harrison.

This draft sucked and every team who drafted in the top 10 will be paying more to solid players then James Harrison. That's not Piolis fault its the NFL's they should model there draft like the NBA's.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 10:17 PM
I want someone to tell me why I should be happy when the only value pick the Chiefs made was Donald Washington, all of the rest of the guys they took were shit value for their draft slots.

htismaqe
04-26-2009, 10:17 PM
Seriously dude. Wow.

Look at the list of picks I drew up that we could have made

1. Mark Sanchez
2. Everette Brown
3. Jarron Gilbert
4. Lawrence Sidbury or Andre Brown
5. Jamon Meredith
6. Coye Francies
7. AQ Shipley
7. Dannell Ellerbe
7. Darry Beckwith

If you think it boils down to just one pick, you're either uninformed, or just being overtly dishonest.

You said "If he turns into Ty Warren, it's not a good pick. It's not horrible, but I'm sorry, you don't give Ty Warren 25-30 million guaranteed."

It all hinges on that pick. Unless you're going to sit here and tell me that you had someone on your list, OTHER THAN SANCHEZ, that's worth 25-30 million guaranteed.

ChiefRon
04-26-2009, 10:17 PM
Seriously dude. Wow.

Look at the list of picks I drew up that we could have made

1. Mark Sanchez
2. Everette Brown
3. Jarron Gilbert
4. Lawrence Sidbury or Andre Brown
5. Jamon Meredith
6. Coye Francies
7. AQ Shipley
7. Dannell Ellerbe
7. Darry Beckwith

If you think it boils down to just one pick, you're either uninformed, or just being overtly dishonest.

Wow. That list is depressing...

ChiefsCountry
04-26-2009, 10:18 PM
I want someone to tell me why I should be happy when the only value pick the Chiefs made was Donald Washington, all of the rest of the guys they took were shit value for their draft slots.

7th round running back wasnt too bad.

ChiefRon
04-26-2009, 10:18 PM
Dimitroff was the Patriots DIRECTOR of scouting and look at how he conducted his first offseason:

Franchise QB
Franchise LT
Get a RB to protect the QB

next year

Pass Catching Red Zone threat to help QBs development


Offense is set.

So what do we do?

Penetrating DT
Ball hawking safety
pass rusher
road grader


Nowhere in there did I see Dimitroff needing to completely revamp their scouting department, or taking a pure Patriot approach to drafting. He also didn't scrap what talent he had on D to put a square peg into a round hole and then spent an entire draft burning picks to fit the scheme when the value was elsewhere.

That scouting department excuse is just CYA for Pioli.

Well, that's a good point. I really like what the Falcons are doing.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 10:19 PM
7th round running back wasnt too bad.

And that guy has a million carries and there were higher rated RBs available.

Raised On Riots
04-26-2009, 10:20 PM
Wow. That list is depressing...

You ain't shittin', Mable. :shake:

Pioli Zombie
04-26-2009, 10:20 PM
You said Samuel...and anyone who thought they had illusions of playing Milloy and Harrison together always made me laugh.

I think playing 2 strong safeties who run at speeds that need a sun dial would have done wonders for their defense.

You said they cut Milloy to play Harrison. Harrison was already going to start. Can you EVER be wrong? What an Asswipe.
Posted via Mobile Device

ChiefRon
04-26-2009, 10:21 PM
That's just it. For those of us that are disappointed, it's not about who we picked. It's about who else was on the board at the time we made the pick.

For instance, look at the Bengals draft. I like what they did. Also I like the Giants and the Eagles drafts.

Crush
04-26-2009, 10:21 PM
Seriously dude. Wow.

Look at the list of picks I drew up that we could have made

1. Mark Sanchez
2. Everette Brown
3. Jarron Gilbert
4. Lawrence Sidbury or Andre Brown
5. Jamon Meredith
6. Coye Francies
7. AQ Shipley
7. Dannell Ellerbe
7. Darry Beckwith

If you think it boils down to just one pick, you're either uninformed, or just being overtly dishonest.




Yeah it does. We did not take Sanchez. I wanted Sanchez too, but I have forced myself to admit that we were not going to take him. That entire scenario stems around the fact that we took Sanchez at No. 3, but we did not.

Seriously, some of you are acting like a psychotic ex-spouse. IT IS NOT OVER UNTIL I SAY IT IS OVER!!!! Just chill or you are going to give yourself an ulcer or two.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 10:23 PM
That's just it. For those of us that are disappointed, it's not about who we picked. It's about who else was on the board at the time we made the pick.

For instance, look at the Bengals draft. I like what they did. Also I like the Giants and the Eagles drafts.

The Giants and Eagles consistently win at the draft and the Bengals just rocked the house.

Just Passin' By
04-26-2009, 10:23 PM
I'm not changing any parameters. They had 3 guys who made the 2001 Pro Bowl. They had about 10 guys who would were Pro Bowlers starting on that team. It's dishonest to talk about that 2001 team as totally bereft of talent. It was anything but.

No team is totally bereft of talent. People were insisting that Brady was just a game manager and the team was full of old players who were past their prime. It's a one year snapshot, not a long range argument. It had 3 Pro Bowlers as I recall: Brown, Brady and Law.

htismaqe
04-26-2009, 10:23 PM
That's just it. For those of us that are disappointed, it's not about who we picked. It's about who else was on the board at the time we made the pick.

For instance, look at the Bengals draft. I like what they did. Also I like the Giants and the Eagles drafts.

And for some of us, it's not about who we did or didn't pick. It's about being aware that we don't really have any control over it.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 10:24 PM
Yeah it does. We did not take Sanchez. I wanted Sanchez too, but I have forced myself to admit that we were not going to take him. That entire scenario stems around the fact that we took Sanchez at No. 3, but we did not.

Seriously, some of you are acting like a psychotic ex-spouse. IT IS NOT OVER UNTIL I SAY IT IS OVER!!!! Just chill or you are going to give yourself an ulcer or two.

Even with Tyson Jackson as the accepted 1st pick I'd tell you the rest of the draft really turned me off with all the value they left on the board.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 10:24 PM
And for some of us, it's not about who we did or didn't pick. It's about being aware that we don't really have any control over it.

That's no fun as much as I follow college ball and the draft I couldn't possibly have the oh well attitude about it.

Raised On Riots
04-26-2009, 10:25 PM
That's just it. For those of us that are disappointed, it's not about who we picked. It's about who else was on the board at the time we made the pick.

For instance, look at the Bengals draft. I like what they did. Also I like the Giants and the Eagles drafts.

Maualuga is in Cincinnati. CINCINNATI! :cuss:

That is SO WRONG, I could write a fucking thesis on it!

Crush
04-26-2009, 10:26 PM
Even with Tyson Jackson as the accepted 1st pick I'd tell you the rest of the draft really turned me off with all the value they left on the board.


That's fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It is just that I can think of better things to get worked up over than a situation that I have absolutely no control over.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 10:26 PM
You said "If he turns into Ty Warren, it's not a good pick. It's not horrible, but I'm sorry, you don't give Ty Warren 25-30 million guaranteed."

It all hinges on that pick. Unless you're going to sit here and tell me that you had someone on your list, OTHER THAN SANCHEZ, that's worth 25-30 million guaranteed.

Raji is worth it if he becomes what he is projected to be.

Crush
04-26-2009, 10:26 PM
And for some of us, it's not about who we did or didn't pick. It's about being aware that we don't really have any control over it.


This

Mecca
04-26-2009, 10:27 PM
That's fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It is just that I can think of better things to get worked up over than a situation that I have absolutely no control over.

I follow it way to much to be like "oh well whatever".

htismaqe
04-26-2009, 10:28 PM
That's no fun as much as I follow college ball and the draft I couldn't possibly have the oh well attitude about it.

I watch about 15-16 hours of college football a week on average. I used to get alot more worked up about the draft.

Much like getting deeper and deeper into the discussions here, I found I was analyzing the team so much that I wasn't enjoying the game anymore.

It's pretty easy to have an "oh well" attitude now and it makes Sundays alot better.

Cormac
04-26-2009, 10:28 PM
Hootie is the kinda guy who talks shit on a message board and we know why that is.

Says the guy who's a long weekend from SIXTY THOUSAND POSTS!

:evil:

htismaqe
04-26-2009, 10:29 PM
Raji is worth it if he becomes what he is projected to be.

A 3-technique 1-gap tackle?

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2009, 10:30 PM
And for some of us, it's not about who we did or didn't pick. It's about being aware that we don't really have any control over it.

I know where your coming from, and in the past, I've been able to do just that - because I was fully confident that Carl would fuck it up.

But even though Pioli was never my 1st choice from the get-go, I expected a shit-ton more from a guy that people seem to think was the brains behind the Patriots dynasty.

Like this draft or hate it, there was a ton of value left on the board, and we passed every time. I mean, if you knew nothing about Carl being fired and Pioli being hired, you'd assume this draft was the work of Carl Peterson - and that is unacceptable, IMO.

Crush
04-26-2009, 10:30 PM
I follow it way to much to be like "oh well whatever".


I was once like that, but the seasons of 1993 - 2003 have pretty much molded my "meh" attitude.

ChiefsCountry
04-26-2009, 10:30 PM
Like I said before Cassel is our 1st round pick and Jackson is our #2. I dont mind the Jackson pick, its better than Curry or Monroe.

Crush
04-26-2009, 10:32 PM
It's pretty easy to have an "oh well" attitude now and it makes Sundays alot better.

Plus, it has dramatically improved my overall health.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 10:33 PM
A 3-technique 1-gap tackle?

That's precisely why Ted Thompson drafted him to be a 2 gap Nose Tackle.

Have you been lobotomized?

Chocolate Hog
04-26-2009, 10:34 PM
I want someone to tell me why I should be happy when the only value pick the Chiefs made was Donald Washington, all of the rest of the guys they took were shit value for their draft slots.

Because the Patriot Way isn't nessecarily about value more so scheme. Who was left at 3 that had more value? Sanchez? We don't need a QB. Raji? You've said he has some red flags. Jackson fits the scheme.

htismaqe
04-26-2009, 10:35 PM
I know where your coming from, and in the past, I've been able to do just that - because I was fully confident that Carl would **** it up.

But even though Pioli was never my 1st choice from the get-go, I expected a shit-ton more from a guy that people seem to think was the brains behind the Patriots dynasty.

Like this draft or hate it, there was a ton of value left on the board, and we passed every time. I mean, if you knew nothing about Carl being fired and Pioli being hired, you'd assume this draft was the work of Carl Peterson - and that is unacceptable, IMO.

That's the thing. You expected more of what? We have no idea what is going to happen with these guys. This draft could end up being the cornerstone of a Super Bowl run. What we percieve as value isn't the same as what an NFL team sees as value, as evidenced by the fact that all but about 3 teams had at least one if not 2 total WTF picks in rounds 2 through 5.

htismaqe
04-26-2009, 10:37 PM
That's precisely why Ted Thompson drafted him to be a 2 gap Nose Tackle.

Have you been lobotomized?

Lots of people HOPE he can be a 2-gap nose tackle.

And the scouting reports UNIVERSALLY said he was better suited to be a 4-3 UT.

Furthermore, it's pretty obvious from the moves they've made that we don't need a 2-gap anything because we're going to be running a primarily 1-gap defense.

If not caring enough to get all pissed off makes me stupid somehow, then call me stupid. It's a fuggin game.

keg in kc
04-26-2009, 10:37 PM
What we percieve as value isn't the same as what an NFL team sees as valueNot picking "my guy" doesn't necessarily mean they made a mistake, in other words.

That's a lesson it took me a few years to learn, albeit mostly watching other teams' drafts.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 10:38 PM
Because the Patriot Way isn't nessecarily about value more so scheme. Who was left at 3 that had more value? Sanchez? We don't need a QB. Raji? You've said he has some red flags. Jackson fits the scheme.

So did Sammie Lee Hill, Jarron Gilbert, and Ron Brace. Taking them at 3 because they "fit the scheme" is retarded. Passing on guys who would "fit the scheme", especially when they have good value, and rush the passer, is even more retarded.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 10:38 PM
I know where your coming from, and in the past, I've been able to do just that - because I was fully confident that Carl would fuck it up.

But even though Pioli was never my 1st choice from the get-go, I expected a shit-ton more from a guy that people seem to think was the brains behind the Patriots dynasty.

Like this draft or hate it, there was a ton of value left on the board, and we passed every time. I mean, if you knew nothing about Carl being fired and Pioli being hired, you'd assume this draft was the work of Carl Peterson - and that is unacceptable, IMO.

Ha that's what I said if you put Petersons name on this draft people would buy it.

Just Passin' By
04-26-2009, 10:39 PM
I know where your coming from, and in the past, I've been able to do just that - because I was fully confident that Carl would **** it up.

But even though Pioli was never my 1st choice from the get-go, I expected a shit-ton more from a guy that people seem to think was the brains behind the Patriots dynasty.

Like this draft or hate it, there was a ton of value left on the board, and we passed every time. I mean, if you knew nothing about Carl being fired and Pioli being hired, you'd assume this draft was the work of Carl Peterson - and that is unacceptable, IMO.

What you claim is value was clearly not looked at as having that same value in the eyes of the Chiefs. That's really the point. You, Mecca and the rest of the people who are still pissing about this draft, have set yourselves up as if you are all experts and Pioli is just some clown who walked in off the street and started making picks. The funny thing is that Hamas put forth a list that pretty much makes this point, but he actually thinks it helps your side of the argument. Players like Gilbert (3rd), Meredith (5th) and Sidbury (4th) made it well into the draft, yet your side of the argument acts as if they were too good to pass up. If they'd been that good, they wouldn't have fallen that far.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 10:42 PM
Lots of people HOPE he can be a 2-gap nose tackle.

And the scouting reports UNIVERSALLY said he was better suited to be a 4-3 UT.

Furthermore, it's pretty obvious from the moves they've made that we don't need a 2-gap anything because we're going to be running a primarily 1-gap defense..

Strengths:
Outstanding mass and bulk...Excellent strength...Stout at the point of attack...Can fill two gaps...Able to occupy multiple blockers...Tough, powerful and nasty...A beast against the run...Can really collapse the pocket...Able to penetrate and make plays in the backfield...Above average athleticism...Quick and agile...Pursues well and has a burst to close...Good instincts and awareness...Will offer schematic versatility.

Weaknesses:
Conditioning and stamina have been problems...Is shorter than you'd prefer...Maturity and commitment have been questioned...Doesn't always play with proper leverage...Inconsistent and his motor tends to run hot and cold...Is not an elite pass rusher...Struggled to keep up with his studies and intelligence may be an issue..Durability concerns?

Notes:
First name is "Busari"...Father migrated from Nigeria...A three-year starter in the ACC...Named 1st Team All-ACC in 2008...Sat out the 2007 season for academic reasons and redshirted...Was ejected from a game in 2006 for throwing a punch...Missed spring ball in 2008 after undergoing offseason shoulder surgery...Weighed more than 350 pounds at one point but is most effective at 325-330...Potential 3-4 nose tackle but could also fit in a 4-3 scheme...Has the physical tools to be great but intangibles could hold him back and prevent him from maximizing his potential...Had an amazing senior season and showed what a truly dominant force he can be when in shape and motivated.

================================
So, in summation, Raji's a one gap player, but the scouting reports say he's better as a 4-3 3 technique, yet the scouting report above says he can occupy multiple blockers, fills two gaps, and can play in either scheme.

And your clincher is that we are going to play a one gap system anyway, so it doesn't matter because Raji is a one gap player?

:spock:

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 10:43 PM
If they'd been that good, they wouldn't have fallen that far.

Who is your QB, and what round was he taken in?

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2009, 10:44 PM
Not picking "my guy" doesn't necessarily mean they made a mistake, in other words.

That's a lesson it took me a few years to learn, albeit mostly watching other teams' drafts.

BJ Raji was far from "my guy," but I wouldn't have called it a mistake had they taken him.

At least he plays an impact position and could justify the draft position.

Just Passin' By
04-26-2009, 10:45 PM
Who is your QB, and what round was he taken in?

As a prospect, Brady was a 6th rounder, nothing more. What's your point?

ChiefsCountry
04-26-2009, 10:47 PM
As a prospect, Brady was a 6th rounder, nothing more. What's your point?

What's your point of being on our board all you have done is troll.

DeezNutz
04-26-2009, 10:47 PM
BJ Raji was far from "my guy," but I wouldn't have called it a mistake had they taken him.

At least he plays an impact position and could justify the draft position.

I believed the Chiefs were going to select Raji or Crabtree, and said as much in threads leading up to the draft.

What I find most surprising, however, is what this draft says about the organization's view of Dorsey. I just don't see it...

petegz28
04-26-2009, 10:48 PM
I believed the Chiefs were going to select Raji or Crabtree, and said as much in threads leading up to the draft.

What I find most surprising, however, is what this draft says about the organization's view of Dorsey. I just don't see it...

Really? I say it says a lot about Hali, McBride and Tyler....if anything.

ChiefRon
04-26-2009, 10:48 PM
I know where your coming from, and in the past, I've been able to do just that - because I was fully confident that Carl would **** it up.

But even though Pioli was never my 1st choice from the get-go, I expected a shit-ton more from a guy that people seem to think was the brains behind the Patriots dynasty.

Like this draft or hate it, there was a ton of value left on the board, and we passed every time. I mean, if you knew nothing about Carl being fired and Pioli being hired, you'd assume this draft was the work of Carl Peterson - and that is unacceptable, IMO.

This is where I'm at with this draft.

Everyone if the whole f'n NFL has been saying how we got the best GM in football, so I guess my expectations were higher than CP.

And the 1st thing he does is trade a high #2 (almost a #1) for career backup, bypass good players at areas of need in FA, and then executes several picks in the draft that seem like reaches.

I had faith in DV and Herm and where did that get me? So I just can't be a "blind homer" any longer.

I'm very frustrated, but I hope I'm proven wrong. Hey, at least our division didn't get much better and maybe a year or two we look back on this and everyone says "Damn, that's why he's the best GM in football."

I sure hope so.

DeezNutz
04-26-2009, 10:50 PM
Really? I say it says a lot about Hali, McBride and Tyler....if anything.

:spock:

I'm talking about the implicit statement that Dorsey can play DT in a 3-4.

McBride and Tyler will be in the rotation.

I don't give a flying fuck about Hali, who now has no role on this team.

Raised On Riots
04-26-2009, 10:53 PM
This is where I'm at with this draft.

Everyone if the whole f'n NFL has been saying how we got the best GM in football, so I guess my expectations were higher than CP.

And the 1st thing he does is trade a high #2 (almost a #1) for career backup, bypass good players at areas of need in FA, and then executes several picks in the draft that seem like reaches.

I had faith in DV and Herm and where did that get me? So I just can't be a "blind homer" any longer.

I'm very frustrated, but I hope I'm proven wrong. Hey, at least our division didn't get much better and maybe a year or two we look back on this and everyone says "Damn, that's why he's the best GM in football."

I sure hope so.

This.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 10:54 PM
As a prospect, Brady was a 6th rounder, nothing more. What's your point?

That you're a hypocritical piece of shit, bashing these late round guys as sucking as a virtue of their draft position when the entire back of your fucking dynasty is built on a 6th round QB.

2bikemike
04-26-2009, 10:54 PM
That's the thing. You expected more of what? We have no idea what is going to happen with these guys. This draft could end up being the cornerstone of a Super Bowl run. What we percieve as value isn't the same as what an NFL team sees as value, as evidenced by the fact that all but about 3 teams had at least one if not 2 total WTF picks in rounds 2 through 5.

I agree with this. All the people eying the drafts and making predictions on the draft, and even those selecting in the draft don't have all the answers. Sure they hit on quite a few truths, But they miss on quite a few as well. History will be the judge. If you look back at the history you will see a lot of top picks that Ryan Leafed, and a lot of late round picks that became superstars like Brady or Terrell Davis.

Just Passin' By
04-26-2009, 10:55 PM
What's your point of being on our board all you have done is troll.

I'm not trolling. Of course, you do like to follow Hamas around and sniff his ass, so it's not surprising that you'd take this approach. Here's a little reality for you:


One other aspect of the call that stood out was Casserly listing the percentages of landing a starting player in the draft.

Casserly cited on a 10-year study – which evaluated drafts after four years had passed – and listed the following numbers of success:

# First round – 75 percent
# Second round – 50 percent
# Third round – 30 percent
# Fourth round – 25 percent
# Fifth round – 20 percent
# Sixth round – 9 percent
# Seventh round – 9 percent

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2009/04/casserly_billic.html

So pissing about the value of players that dropped into the the 4th round and below when you've never seen your GM/coach tandem work a draft is just idiotic. Hell, even the 3rd round is less than a 1-in-3 chance of getting a starter.

It's not that Hamas and company definitely don't have a point, because only time will provide that answer. It's that Hamas and company have no idea whether or not they have a point, but they act as if they know it for a fact.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 10:55 PM
Even with Tyson Jackson being the first pick I'm not going to excuse taking Magee over Gilbert or all the other horrendous value moves they made today.

Cormac
04-26-2009, 10:55 PM
It's pretty clear from the Pioli/Haley quotes that our biggest need was a 3-4 DE and we got 2 of the top 3 guys at that position with our first 2 picks.

Obviously they think that we can get by with Edwards/Tank at NT with Dorsey/Jackson/Magee as DEs better than we could with Raji at NT and some other fill-in at DE.

It also seems (worryingly) that they have little idea how Dorsey will pan out. I hope he plays well enough so that we can get value out of him. He's definitely a talented player, and so far he hasn't had any opportunity to show what he can do, IMO.

petegz28
04-26-2009, 10:56 PM
I agree with this. All the people eying the drafts and making predictions on the draft, and even those selecting in the draft don't have all the answers. Sure they hit on quite a few truths, But they miss on quite a few as well. History will be the judge. If you look back at the history you will see a lot of top picks that Ryan Leafed, and a lot of late round picks that became superstars like Brady or Terrell Davis.

Piloi's 3 SB rings tell me he knows more than Kiper or anyone on the Planet.

Just saying....:shrug:

petegz28
04-26-2009, 10:57 PM
Even with Tyson Jackson being the first pick I'm not going to excuse taking Magee over Gilbert or all the other horrendous value moves they made today.

Pioli will not sleep well tonight knowing of your anger and flustration, I am sure. :p

Just Passin' By
04-26-2009, 10:57 PM
That you're a hypocritical piece of shit, bashing these late round guys as sucking as a virtue of their draft position when the entire back of your ****ing dynasty is built on a 6th round QB.

What the hell does Brady's FUTURE success AFTER being taken in the 6th have to do with OTWs comment or my response to it? Can you at least try to stay on one path?

Mecca
04-26-2009, 10:57 PM
If they had taken a few different guys I'd have a different opinion.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 10:58 PM
Pioli will not sleep well tonight knowing of your anger and flustration, I am sure. :p

That's nice Carl slept well for 20 years making tard moves.

DeezNutz
04-26-2009, 10:58 PM
If they had taken a few different guys I'd have a different opinion.

LMAO

It sounds so easy when put like this.

If they had just won a few more games or had a few more talented players, they wouldn't have sucked complete ass. Simple.

Short Leash Hootie
04-26-2009, 10:58 PM
I knew this was going to happen LMAO

The Patriots draft by THEIR board...they don't use a scouting service...they do their own scouting and stay true to their board...

and I knew all of the drafturbators would absolutely hate the draft.

It's hilarious.

Hamas is like a 5 year old kid.

LMAO LMAO LMAO

petegz28
04-26-2009, 10:59 PM
That's nice Carl slept well for 20 years making tard moves.

Perhaps you didn't yell loud enough for him to hear you??? :shrug:

Raised On Riots
04-26-2009, 10:59 PM
It's not that Hamas and company definitely don't have a point, because only time will provide that answer. It's that Hamas and company have no idea whether or not they have a point, but they act as if they know it for a fact.

That was quite possibly the dumbest statement I've seen pass your lips. That was Smed territory. Improve or bugger off.

ChiefRon
04-26-2009, 10:59 PM
If they had taken a few different guys I'd have a different opinion.

If we had just taken some of those guys the Bengals picked after us, I'd feel better.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 11:00 PM
I knew this was going to happen LMAO

The Patriots draft by THEIR board...they don't use a scouting service...they do their own scouting and stay true to their board...

and I knew all of the drafturbators would absolutely hate the draft.

It's hilarious.

Hamas is like a 5 year old kid.

LMAO LMAO LMAO

Which is precisely why when their director of scouting left, he made a series of picks that were considered great value in his next two drafts.

Do you ever formulate an opinion of your own, or do you just piggyback onto whatever makes you look like a bigger dumbass?