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View Full Version : NFL Draft I'll come out and say it: this was a good draft.


Direckshun
04-26-2009, 09:03 PM
This draft did not make the most sense out of what we COULD have done.

But think of what we accomplished: We drafted the TWO BEST pure 3-4 DEs in the Draft this year. Jackson in particular seems to have a great ceiling, and Magee is the perfect lunchpail guy. Anybody here who realistically thought we were set at CB with Flowers-Carr-Leggett(-Daniels?) is deluding themselves. We were going to need another piece there. Washington was not the BEST choice we could have made, but his pick is not senseless. For a draft that was largely without sizzle, we did make it out of the draft with two potentially exciting skill-position players from the late rounds. A kicker! BARTH VS. SUCCOP, an elite battle of eliteness. Brown and O'Connell didn't make a lick of sense, no defenses there. The positions, outside of QB, that take the longest to develop are DL, WR, and CB. It makes more sense to get those players first when you are building a team. This draft hit those positions first.

There are other reasons out there but we will hear them as the thread winds on.

Good first draft by Pioli.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2009, 09:06 PM
I'll come out and say it:

You should have your head examined. I'm convinced you've taken a serious fall, been in a car accident, something - you've not been your normal self the past couple of weeks.

ChiefsCountry
04-26-2009, 09:07 PM
Direck is this your attention whore thread. Last year you went apeshit on that draft.

DaWolf
04-26-2009, 09:08 PM
I don't think we'll know for a while. Take the last two drafts, while people were relatively pleased with the results of those after draft day, we've only won 6 games in that timespan. I'm not going to say this was a good or bad draft at this time. We have to see if these guys become building blocks for this team to be a winner, and that's going to take time. I like that they seem to have roles in mind for these guys, but I am actually more curious as to how our existing players are going to shake out on this team, especially Dorsey and Hali...

Mecca
04-26-2009, 09:09 PM
I'll come out and say it:

You should have your head examined. I'm convinced you've taken a serious fall, been in a car accident, something - you've not been your normal self the past couple of weeks.

Pretty much...

I don't even think Magee is better than Gilbert my thought is we had the choice and took the wrong one.

stevieray
04-26-2009, 09:11 PM
I'll come out and say it...look for your cheerios to pissed in all season.

Reaper16
04-26-2009, 09:11 PM
I don't think we'll know for a while. Take the last two drafts, while people were relatively pleased with the results of those after draft day, we've only won 6 games in that timespan.
Yes, because the players drafted in the past two years changed the fact that the team was quarterbacked by Damon Huard, Brodie Coyle and Tyler Thigpen.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 09:14 PM
Direc likes to be different I think, he ripped on last years draft and now likes this one...

bdeg
04-26-2009, 09:15 PM
Pretty much...

I don't even think Magee is better than Gilbert my thought is we had the choice and took the wrong one.

Gilbert's not exactly a risk-free prospect. Evidently they don't believe he'll pan out, that's usually the way it turns out with guys that can't do it on the field in college. Hopefully they're right and the corner will come into his own with time.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 09:16 PM
Gilbert's not exactly a risk-free prospect. Evidently they don't believe he'll pan out, that's usually the way it turns out with guys that can't do it on the field in college.

Um Jarron Gilbert led the nation in tackles for loss so what exactly wasn't he doing?

KCUnited
04-26-2009, 09:16 PM
Just wakin in the morning, gotta thank god.
I don't know but today seems kinda odd
No barkin from the dog, and no smog
And mama cooked the breakfast with no hog

buddha
04-26-2009, 09:19 PM
This draft did not make the most sense out of what we COULD have done.


But think of what we accomplished:

We drafted the TWO BEST pure 3-4 DEs in the Draft this year. Jackson in particular seems to have a great ceiling, and Magee is the perfect lunchpail guy.
Anybody here who realistically thought we were set at CB with Flowers-Carr-Leggett(-Daniels?) is deluding themselves. We were going to need another piece there. Washington was not the BEST choice we could have made, but his pick is not senseless.
For a draft that was largely without sizzle, we did make it out of the draft with two potentially exciting skill-position players from the late rounds.
A kicker! BARTH VS. SUCCOP, an elite battle of eliteness.
Brown and O'Connell didn't make a lick of sense, no defenses there.
The positions, outside of QB, that take the longest to develop are DL, WR, and CB. It makes more sense to get those players first when you are building a team. This draft hit those positions first.

There are other reasons out there but we will hear them as the thread winds on.

Good first draft by Pioli.

I agree with you more than I disagree. Too many people were looking for a draft that solved all needs and concerns. That was never going to happen, and magically, we didn't have Anthony Munoz waiting for us in the 1st and Jon Alt in the 3rd.

The thing I really like about Magee is this...watch his feet...dude never gives up.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 09:19 PM
What was it you gave our day one last year? A C-?

ChiefsCountry
04-26-2009, 09:20 PM
What was it you gave our day one last year? A C-?

Remember his Albert meltdown.

bdeg
04-26-2009, 09:20 PM
"Inconsistent...Bit of a classic 'tweener...Needs to be more physical and aggressive...Doesn't use his hands well...Has some trouble shedding blocks...Needs to use better leverage...Not a great technician...Motor runs hot and cold...Immature ?...Did not always face elite competition."

But to tell you the truth I think I was thinking of Sidbury, I have no idea why I get those names mixed up.

Direckshun
04-26-2009, 09:21 PM
I'll come out and say it:

You should have your head examined. I'm convinced you've taken a serious fall, been in a car accident, something - you've not been your normal self the past couple of weeks.

Hey, you read my mocks. I never took two DEs straight in a row.

This draft was not what I wanted ideally.

But it makes a great degree of sense, for a series of clear reasons.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 09:21 PM
"Inconsistent...Bit of a classic 'tweener...Needs to be more physical and aggressive...Doesn't use his hands well...Has some trouble shedding blocks...Needs to use better leverage...Not a great technician...Motor runs hot and cold...Immature ?...Did not always face elite competition."

But to tell you the truth I think I was thinking of Sidbury, I have no idea why I get those names mixed up.

Magee's says alot of the same stuff the difference is Gilbert is alot more naturally gifted.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-26-2009, 09:22 PM
C+...I'm sorry.

I love the Chiefs, but I hated what we did our first day.

You can't criticize us in terms of value or talent -- we ended up with three of the most talented players from this weekend altogether. Dorsey was a brilliant pick, and probably the best possible option we could have had.

But Albert is completely unproven at tackle. Guard is an awful position to Draft nonetheless. Giving up two picks for him seemed like a disasterous decision. Flowers is incredibly talented but he's got so many character concerns my brain is exploding.

Here's hoping we continue drafting talented players. But here's hoping we avoid some of the sloppy decisioin making from an absolutely zany day one.

Iowanian
04-26-2009, 09:22 PM
I'm not complaining about it.

Frankly, I don't know much about most of the picks, but I swore 5 years before Carl was ousted that if he were gone, I wouldn't question the new regime.

I'm trusting the new staff....I'll take their word for it at this point and will begin judging them once the preseason and games start. It will probably take a couple of years before I know how I feel about the draft.

I might have thought I wanted some different players, but I wasn't watching film, or with the scouts and and and.

In Pioli I trust (for now).

ChiefsCountry
04-26-2009, 09:22 PM
Last year:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=183829&highlight=albert

Direckshun
04-26-2009, 09:23 PM
Direck is this your attention whore thread. Last year you went apeshit on that draft.

I hated the first day, but loved the second day.

Turns out the first day landed us two studs, with Dorsey still developing. The second day mostly went bankrupt. So it does show you what I know -- but I'm consistent, at least.

Direckshun
04-26-2009, 09:25 PM
Pretty much...

I don't even think Magee is better than Gilbert my thought is we had the choice and took the wrong one.

I think they are both great prospects, but Magee's transition will be less difficult in both competition level and positionally.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 09:26 PM
I'm not going to trust Direcks draft thoughts he likes this draft and hated last years especially Albert....that doesn't make any logical sense.

Direckshun
04-26-2009, 09:28 PM
Direc likes to be different I think, he ripped on last years draft and now likes this one...

There's a bit of that in there, sure.

DeezNutz
04-26-2009, 09:28 PM
This worries me.

Is he the Mush of draft evaluations?

I'm hopeful the sample size is too small.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 09:29 PM
My opinion Donald Washington is the only pick that was good value.

Direckshun
04-26-2009, 09:30 PM
What was it you gave our day one last year? A C-?

C+, so credit where credit is due.

Edit: by the way, how did Matt Ryan turn out?

xbarretx
04-26-2009, 09:51 PM
i agree Direckshun. It wasnt flashy but at the same time we didnt only do what the media wanted. I think most are mad b/c the media isnt riding Pioli's jock giving the draft an "A" grade. Only reason to be dissapointed is b/c we could of filled other holes at certain picks but if you had faith in the new F.O. before all of this then you should still have it. again we ARENT DENVER OR OAKLAND!

we all went into the weekend knowing that Scott and Todd arent looking for the flavor of the moment. players who fit there scheme is all they have said. I think they stuck to there guns and im ok with it. for those unhappy folks, try going back to previous drafts where CP probably created his draft card from the latest Kiper mocks.... :shake:

Another thing is people need to stop crying over Dorsey. he was top of his class for that position and has shown no reason that he wont get better. especially now that the GUN isnt calling the shots for cover 2...

oh and ... Shawnee Mission North High School Football RULES! :clap:

wild1
04-26-2009, 09:52 PM
After time passes, drafts are not evaluated on who was a "reach" and who was "great value" at that spot. Years down the road they're only evaluated on whether or not these guys can play.

We'll see how many of them can play.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2009, 09:55 PM
C+, so credit where credit is due.

Edit: by the way, how did Matt Ryan turn out?

I'll give you that, because I thought he was gonna bust for sure. How did Flacco turn out?

Mecca
04-26-2009, 09:56 PM
He can't hit me with that because I liked Matt Ryan...

Crush
04-26-2009, 09:57 PM
How did Flacco turn out?


Pretty good, considering he recorded Rock Me Amadeus.

xbarretx
04-26-2009, 09:58 PM
Pretty good, considering he recorded Rock Me Amadeus.

LMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.wdr.de/radio/wdr2/_m/images/upload/moma/falco_amadeus_mdr_160.jpg

Direckshun
04-26-2009, 10:00 PM
I'll give you that, because I thought he was gonna bust for sure. How did Flacco turn out?

Pretty damn good. I'm not shy about atoning for shit like some of the other draftniks around here who believe their reputations depend on the myth of infallibility.

I can understand that to a certain degree, because nobody cares when you get stuff right, and draft opinions are inherently "gotcha!"-inviting. I mean, I was right about a bunch of shit that everybody else was wrong about, too, but nobody gives a shit about that. They want to peg me for the many things I get wrong rather than the many things I get right.

That's the necessary evil, and I embrace it rather than shirk it.

I hated our first day last year, other than Dorsey. I loved our second day.

I really like this draft this year. We'll see if I'm remotely correct.

Direckshun
04-26-2009, 10:01 PM
He can't hit me with that because I liked Matt Ryan...

This is pretty much what I'm talking about.

SBK
04-26-2009, 10:01 PM
I like our draft. I don't know a ton about the folks we drafted, but this draft has a very different feel to it than any I remember under Carl.

I would have rather drafted Sanchez and taken Maualuga or someone different at 2, but I don't see much sense in complaining about it now. Our GM has really hitched his train to Cassel, I'd imagine he knew that before he traded for him.

My guess is a few years from now people will look back at this draft as a very important one that got us several key building blocks.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2009, 10:04 PM
Pretty damn good. I'm not shy about atoning for shit like some of the other draftniks around here who believe their reputations depend on the myth of infallibility.

I can understand that to a certain degree, because nobody cares when you get stuff right, and draft opinions are inherently "gotcha!"-inviting. I mean, I was right about a bunch of shit that everybody else was wrong about, too, but nobody gives a shit about that. They want to peg me for the many things I get wrong rather than the many things I get right.

That's the necessary evil, and I embrace it rather than shirk it.

I hated our first day last year, other than Dorsey. I loved our second day.

I really like this draft this year. We'll see if I'm remotely correct.

Well, I wasn't impressed, but I also concede that I really don't know shit. I hope you're right and I'm wrong. All I do know, is who do you take at 3 if not Jackson? If the thought process is you're gonna put Dorsey in the middle BJ Raji has no value there. Who do you go with? I wasn't happy at the time, but in hindsight, if they're hell bent on going 3-4 it was the most logical pick. It beat Curry IMO.

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2009, 10:05 PM
Good first draft by Pioli.

Confirmation that this draft will suck

:D

Direckshun
04-26-2009, 10:09 PM
Well, I wasn't impressed, but I also concede that I really don't know shit. I hope you're right and I'm wrong. All I do know, is who do you take at 3 if not Jackson? If the thought process is you're gonna put Dorsey in the middle BJ Raji has no value there. Who do you go with? I wasn't happy at the time, but in hindsight, if they're hell bent on going 3-4 it was the most logical pick. It beat Curry IMO.

In my opinion, I wanted Raji. Jackson was the second or third player I wanted after him, if we couldn't trade down.

I never believed Dorsey fit the 3-4, unless we stuck with a hybrid version or go occasionally with pure rush packages like the Cards did with Dockett. Dorsey cannot be our full-time NT. Raji has all the tools, however generic it is to say that.

For me, from the Pioli point of view it was Raji vs. Jackson. It's possible he liked Raji more, but considering we've already spent high picks on DT (Tank, Dorsey), he figured he might give them a shot and opt for Jackson since we really only have one player that made any sense as a 3-4 DE (McBride).

I'd been rooting for Raji for months.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2009, 10:12 PM
In my opinion, I wanted Raji. Jackson was the second or third player I wanted after him, if we couldn't trade down.

I never believed Dorsey fit the 3-4, unless we stuck with a hybrid version or go occasionally with pure rush packages like the Cards did with Dockett. Dorsey cannot be our full-time NT. Raji has all the tools, however generic it is to say that.

For me, from the Pioli point of view it was Raji vs. Jackson. It's possible he liked Raji more, but considering we've already spent high picks on DT (Tank, Dorsey), he figured he might give them a shot and opt for Jackson since we really only have one player that made any sense as a 3-4 DE (McBride).

I'd been rooting for Raji for months.

I'm not saying he wouldn't have been the best pick, but I would be pretty upset if this new regime just came in and abandoned Glenn Dorsey. If that turns out to be another waste of a top 5 DT I am going to burn somebody's house down.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 10:13 PM
I think the Chiefs offseason in 4 years will be looked back on with a vile feeling.

Direckshun
04-26-2009, 10:16 PM
I'm not saying he wouldn't have been the best pick, but I would be pretty upset if this new regime just came in and abandoned Glenn Dorsey. If that turns out to be another waste of a top 5 DT I am going to burn somebody's house down.

That's fair.

Direckshun
04-26-2009, 10:16 PM
I think the Chiefs offseason in 4 years will be looked back on with a vile feeling.

I don't know where you find the courage.

MiKa1386
04-26-2009, 10:17 PM
No this was a terrible draft, nuff said

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2009, 10:17 PM
That's fair.

LMAO I'm assuming you're talking about the part where I burn somebody's house down.

Direckshun
04-26-2009, 10:20 PM
LMAO I'm assuming you're talking about the part where I burn somebody's house down.

Hey, arson is part of being a good draftnik.

Simply Red
04-26-2009, 10:27 PM
Direc likes to be different I think, he ripped on last years draft and now likes this one...

Ironic you'd make this claim.

FAX
04-26-2009, 10:34 PM
This draft (like most others) will have minimal impact on the totality of the football team Pioli is trying to build. We may (with the emphasis on "may") have acquired 2 or 3 players who will be contributing to the Chiefs 3 years from now. Odds are we added less than 10 percent to our starting squad in 2011. Of course, other than perhaps the Bengals, the same can be said about every other franchise's draft. Still, the Chiefs have a proven legacy of crappy drafts. Surely, Pioli can do no worse than we've done over the last 2 decades.

Of interest to me is whether or not Pioli selected players that meet his "criteria" (big, strong, fast, and smart). I know we got a couple of big guys. We'll find out about the rest as they develop. Meanwhile, of greater concern to me is whether or not peeps like Cassel, Dorsey, Bowe, DJ, and several other Chiefs who have the potential to be successful, impact players bring it over the next few years. Also, we'd better get damn busy finding some offensive linemen somewhere. Like the famous, old Belgium proverb says, "A one-legged chicken walks darn funny and it seems like it takes one forever to cross the yard."

FAX

Ultra Peanut
04-26-2009, 10:36 PM
It was arright.

xbarretx
04-26-2009, 10:36 PM
Like the famous, old Belgium proverb says, "A one-legged chicken walks darn funny and it seems like it takes one forever to cross the yard."

FAX


or "you cant build a mansion on stilts" ;)

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2009, 10:37 PM
or "you cant build a mansion on stilts" ;)

Apparently, you've never visited the Hollywood Hills

Mecca
04-26-2009, 10:47 PM
I don't know where you find the courage.

Look man I'm gonna say what I think, unlike alot of fans I'm not a flip flopper if my opinion is proven to be wrong I'll accept that but I am not going to view everything as all aces because it's my team.

DaWolf
04-26-2009, 10:49 PM
Yes, because the players drafted in the past two years changed the fact that the team was quarterbacked by Damon Huard, Brodie Coyle and Tyler Thigpen.

So what? The defense has sucked for the last decade. We used to win games with Steve DeBerg, Dave Kreig, Elvis Grbac, and Steve Bono. Six wins in two years is not just due to the QBs. If you are tearing down a team to play young players, those young players better start producing some wins within a couple of years. It's happened in other places. You can't pass judgment on guys taken last year yet and even some of the other guys, but just because you are drafting players and playing them doesn't mean that you've drafted the right guys, and it is quite possible some of these young guys that Carl and Herm drafted just aren't winning caliber football players...

Blick
04-26-2009, 10:49 PM
oh and ... Shawnee Mission North High School Football RULES! :clap:

This lol.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 10:50 PM
So what? The defense has sucked for the last decade. We used to win games with Steve DeBerg, Dave Kreig, Elvis Grbac, and Steve Bono. Six wins in two years is not just due to the QBs...

That defense was the product of a man with a ring just remember that.

Dick Bull
04-26-2009, 10:56 PM
That defense was the product of a man with a ring just remember that.

That defense was the product of a man with a wrong and little interest in the defense. Allowing the d coordinator total autonomy. His mistake wasn't in the d it was selecting who to run the d.

Otter
04-26-2009, 11:01 PM
I'll come out and say it:

Scott Pioli started as assistant of player personnel for the New England Patriots in 2000. He was then promoted to director of player personnel, then promoted to VP of player personnel. New England has been four Super Bowls in that time.

He knows more any stupid bastard posting on this board draft weekend even if in some grand illusion you somehow think your more qualified or even capable of holding his jock strap.

Hammas, you're the master of inventiing the illusion of knowledge, surely you can grant these people some insight on how to live the lie more effectively.

Carry on, have fun. Some of us have work tomorrow.

Mecca
04-26-2009, 11:01 PM
That coordinator had a ring too..

Lets remember this when we act like Pioli's rings give him this almighty unquestionable say.

Dick Bull
04-26-2009, 11:09 PM
That coordinator had a ring too..

Lets remember this when we act like Pioli's rings give him this almighty unquestionable say.

I never said initially it wasn't a good hire. He had the resume.
The problem was that he didn't terminate his employment when he should have.

xbarretx
04-26-2009, 11:27 PM
Apparently, you've never visited the Hollywood Hills

Touché but thats not what i meant

Direckshun
04-26-2009, 11:56 PM
Look man I'm gonna say what I think, unlike alot of fans I'm not a flip flopper if my opinion is proven to be wrong I'll accept that but I am not going to view everything as all aces because it's my team.

Amazing how ballsy you are. You post zero mocks and you volunteer zero opinions over the course of the draft season except when you are criticizing others (I believe the only thing you volunteered all offseason was Jared Cook?, which by the way no team agreed with you on), and occasionally say things like "four years down the road" etc etc... really ballsy stuff there, when the exact odds of me sticking around here for four years or you even surviving that long are tiny at best. Forget about me actually remembering them.

buddha
04-27-2009, 01:10 AM
What a dreadful collection of sad sacks on this board tonight. Here's the cry of the typical CP nutless wonder:

1. Draft sucked
2. I'm not going to bow down to Pioli and nobody can make me
3. I've been right before, just try and track down my old predictions
4. Every round was a reach
5. When the Chiefs DO get good again, I'll be the guy who said, "I told you so...!"
6. ...until then, I'm the guy who is telling you, "I told you so...!"
7. In the meantime, what worthless FAs are we getting (why bother asking...they will all just suck).
8. Pioli is really no better than King Carl

The list could go on and on, but why bother? I'm convinced that KC was going to get blasted no matter who they chose over the weekend.

Frankly, I have no idea if any of these guys are going to pan out. However, Pioli has credibility...dude has been there and done that. He has the rings to show that he knows what he is doing. That doesn't make him perfect or infallible, but it does give him a pass in my book. I am more than willing to give this man the benefit of the doubt when it comes to talent evaluation...he has earned that much. If you don't agree, fine. But really...stop and think about it. Why do any of us think they know more than Scott Freaking Pioli?

Mecca
04-27-2009, 01:20 AM
Scott Pioli is getting absolutely ripped on by just about everyone who isn't a Chiefs fan from what I've seen...

buddha
04-27-2009, 01:28 AM
Mecca, do you count Cassell as part of this draft or not? I think you have to, and I don't recall ANYBODY credible ripping Pioli when that trade was made. I've seen a couple of B grades for the balance of the draft this year...not exactly a scathing grade.

Mecca
04-27-2009, 01:30 AM
Mecca, do you count Cassell as part of this draft or not? I think you have to, and I don't recall ANYBODY credible ripping Pioli when that trade was made. I've seen a couple of B grades for the balance of the draft this year...not exactly a scathing grade.

I'm not a Cassel fan but I posted this earlier..

They are putting Matt Cassel in a position to fail, I don't think that is a good thing.

buddha
04-27-2009, 01:37 AM
Are you sure that you're a Chiefs fan at this point? Serious question. If everything they are trying to do is so bad, why continue? It can't ALL be that bad, can it?

googlegoogle
04-27-2009, 01:40 AM
I'll come out and say it:

You should have your head examined. I'm convinced you've taken a serious fall, been in a car accident, something - you've not been your normal self the past couple of weeks.

Maybe you should have yours examined to. :thumb:

Mecca
04-27-2009, 01:40 AM
Are you sure that you're a Chiefs fan at this point? Serious question. If everything they are trying to do is so bad, why continue? It can't ALL be that bad, can it?

We can have a logical conversation about it but when someone is just jumping around yelling Pioli like a parrot or acting like all ability to reason left them or cussing at me I'm not going to be nice or friendly with them.

I don't think it's a good draft no matter who was doing the picking. I think we left alot of value on the board.

The draft had alot of depth at OL TE and WR, so we proceeded to take a bunch of defenders in what was acknowledged as a weak defensive year. I understand they think it's a great idea to shoehorn in this defensive scheme and all but um they just traded for Cassel and said he's the guy.

If you're going to do that you have to give him enough to let him have a chance. We didn't upgrade our putrid OL and we didn't get him anyone else to throw to after trading Gonzalez, it's just begging for him to fail.

I don't think it was fair to Matt Cassel he doesn't deserve to get his brains beat in or get injured but the front office may after what they did to him over the course of this weekend.

googlegoogle
04-27-2009, 01:41 AM
I love the pessimism.

Mecca
04-27-2009, 01:44 AM
How is that pessimism?

I would tell you the Lions should be questioned for doing the exact same thing.

TinyEvel
04-27-2009, 02:20 AM
I am not by any means a scholar of football either as a player or armchair coach and I think we did pretty well.

I do believe we should be ready to cue the Benny Hill music when our D takes the field if the coaching staff/DC can't get the scheme in line over the next 4 months. But consider how many blown leads we had...games given up in the 4th quarter...maybe D was more important than O. Again, we have needs all over the place on both sides of the ball.

I remember after NE won their first super bowl, the mainstream were touting Tom Brady as the hero but the sports press acknowledged that they were a team of few superstars, just really balanced - everyone working together the same.
I'll rest assured on that information rather than the "this guy should have gone later" and "They reached for that guy" armchair GMs.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-27-2009, 05:04 AM
Scott Pioli is getting absolutely ripped on by just about everyone who isn't a Chiefs fan from what I've seen...

Really, where have you been looking? I am not saying he is getting rave reviews, or "A" draft grades, but I don't see anyone ripping him.

They are ripping Al Davis, they are even ripping the Broncos for trading away next year's first round pick. Don't see them ripping Pioli.

MoreLemonPledge
04-27-2009, 05:06 AM
Really, where have you been looking? I am not saying he is getting rave reviews, or "A" draft grades, but I don't see anyone ripping him.

They are ripping Al Davis, they are even ripping the Broncos for trading away next year's first round pick. Don't see them ripping Pioli.

Walterfootball is ripping Pioli a new one every chance he gets, and I usually like the guy.

kysirsoze
04-27-2009, 05:11 AM
I am not by any means a scholar of football either as a player or armchair coach and I think we did pretty well.

I do believe we should be ready to cue the Benny Hill music when our D takes the field if the coaching staff/DC can't get the scheme in line over the next 4 months. But consider how many blown leads we had...games given up in the 4th quarter...maybe D was more important than O. Again, we have needs all over the place on both sides of the ball.

I remember after NE won their first super bowl, the mainstream were touting Tom Brady as the hero but the sports press acknowledged that they were a team of few superstars, just really balanced - everyone working together the same.
I'll rest assured on that information rather than the "this guy should have gone later" and "They reached for that guy" armchair GMs.

Thizzle

SenselessChiefsFan
04-27-2009, 05:23 AM
We can have a logical conversation about it but when someone is just jumping around yelling Pioli like a parrot or acting like all ability to reason left them or cussing at me I'm not going to be nice or friendly with them.

I don't think it's a good draft no matter who was doing the picking. I think we left alot of value on the board.

The draft had alot of depth at OL TE and WR, so we proceeded to take a bunch of defenders in what was acknowledged as a weak defensive year. I understand they think it's a great idea to shoehorn in this defensive scheme and all but um they just traded for Cassel and said he's the guy.

If you're going to do that you have to give him enough to let him have a chance. We didn't upgrade our putrid OL and we didn't get him anyone else to throw to after trading Gonzalez, it's just begging for him to fail.

I don't think it was fair to Matt Cassel he doesn't deserve to get his brains beat in or get injured but the front office may after what they did to him over the course of this weekend.


I am fine with Tyson Jackson. I wish they could have traded back and got him, but I don't they could have. I don't think the Jets gave them the same offer, but if they did, I don't think that he would have been on the board at 17.

Magee and Washington were both value picks.

After this draft, the Chiefs defensive line should be solid. The Chiefs have versatility and quality along their defensive front.

Dorsey can play end or NT in the 3-4. Jackson, Boone, and Magee can all play inside or outside.

Edwards and Tank Tyler are the 1st/2nd down NT's.

The Chiefs have a ton of options up front now. I don't see this as a bad thing.

As far as Cassel goes, sometimes the most help you can give a young QB is a defense that will take the pressure off of him.

Honestely, I think Curry would have made a bigger impact. I would have rather had Curry. If not Curry, I would have preferred a trade back.

With that said, Jackson plays a position that is harder to fill.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-27-2009, 05:24 AM
Walterfootball is ripping Pioli a new one every chance he gets, and I usually like the guy.

I don't frequent that site, but I will have to check it out.

SenselessChiefsFan
04-27-2009, 05:56 AM
Walterfootball is ripping Pioli a new one every chance he gets, and I usually like the guy.

Okay, checked it out. Kind of made me laugh. I actually agree somewhat about Curry. I felt like he was the best pick. But, to bash the trade of Cassel is silly. To question it, is fine. But to completely bash it is silly.

Cassel's former GM AND former offensive coordinator both really wanted this kid. In fact, McDaniel so love the Cassel, that he sent Denver's only QB son to Chicago.

Doesn't this give this guy any pause about ripping Cassel?

Hey, we all have opinions, but every once in a while, we all have to realize that we don't know it all, and we will make mistakes. I just think that you have to look at things like that and wonder... 'what could I be missing'.... rather than these two guys are BOTH idiots.

Anyways, always like to see all sides, so thanks for pointing it out.

Direckshun
04-27-2009, 08:45 AM
Scott Pioli is getting absolutely ripped on by just about everyone who isn't a Chiefs fan from what I've seen...

I love this. You'll criticize people for deferring to a guy with a ring, but you have no problem deferring to a majority of non-Chiefs fans on the Chiefs' picks.

I'd think you'd know a fallacy when you see one.

When you have ARGUMENTS, you'll fit into this thread. "But a lot of people thinks this sucks" is not an argument.

Shox
04-27-2009, 09:37 AM
I don't have any problem at all with Jackson. A good pick for the new Chief 3-4 system.

My problem was with Magee. Dorsey is already slotted to play DE and Jackson certainly is going to be the other DE. So we use a 3rd round pick for a backup DE when we have many other holes to fill. I don't get it.

How about a OL or LB with this pick. TE or WR was a huge need as well in my opinion. You go out an make a great trade to get Cassel and then trade his All-PRO TE away. Teams are going to double Bowe all day now and Cassel is going to be running for his life.

I totally do not understand making sure Cassel has the weapons to be sucessful. Maybe there is another deal left to be made, but at this point the 3rd round pick really leave Pioli with a blackeye in my opinion.

Fat Elvis
04-27-2009, 09:54 AM
Scott Pioli is getting absolutely ripped on by just about everyone like me, Dane and Hamas from what I've seen...

FYP

htismaqe
04-27-2009, 10:00 AM
Walterfootball is ripping Pioli a new one every chance he gets, and I usually like the guy.

Walterfootball is the only one I've seen so far that is overly negative.

And they REALLY wanted us to take Curry, so I don't put much value in what they have to say.

Curry would have been an AWFUL pick for us.

buddha
04-27-2009, 10:11 AM
As Pioli has said over the past week, the Chiefs are just starting to make personnel moves. To look at this draft in a bubble without it being considered in the context of what's coming is a mistake in my opinion. The putrid o-line will be addressed. I'm fairly confident that Pioli has eyes just like we do. So does Haley.

When you're trying to rebuild a team that is as bad as KC, it has to happen in stages.

I think Pioli is a really bright guy and I'm glad he's working for the team I follow. It's been awhile since I've felt that way about KC's front office.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2009, 10:14 AM
Walterfootball is the only one I've seen so far that is overly negative.

And they REALLY wanted us to take Curry, so I don't put much value in what they have to say.

Curry would have been an AWFUL pick for us.

Actually, that's not true.

If you've read Walter any significant length of time, you'd know that he had us signed sealed and delivered on Sanchez - and has regularly bashed Pioli for trading for what he calls "a taller Tyler Thigpen."

He put together this detailed blog post explaining why you don't take an ILB with a Top 5 pick - then was basically forced to mock Curry to us because no one else other than BJ Raji made sense.

buddha
04-27-2009, 10:30 AM
The "taller Tyler Thigpen" comparison is enough to question his cred. That's a stupid comment.

He's ripping the Chiefs because they didn't do what he predicted they would do. He may have thought Sanchez would fit in well in KC, but it's pretty clear for people who actually follow the Chiefs that Sanchez wasn't in the plans here. This was going to be MC's job.

I actually like Sanchez a lot and hope he does well in NY. I also think that Cassell is going to be a very good QB for KC if we can keep him alive for the next season (or two).

htismaqe
04-27-2009, 10:34 AM
Actually, that's not true.

If you've read Walter any significant length of time, you'd know that he had us signed sealed and delivered on Sanchez - and has regularly bashed Pioli for trading for what he calls "a taller Tyler Thigpen."

He put together this detailed blog post explaining why you don't take an ILB with a Top 5 pick - then was basically forced to mock Curry to us because no one else other than BJ Raji made sense.

You're right, my bad.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2009, 10:35 AM
You're right, my bad.

No big deal.

As you've pointed out, it doesn't matter now anyway.

EyePod
04-27-2009, 10:40 AM
Pretty much...

I don't even think Magee is better than Gilbert my thought is we had the choice and took the wrong one.

I think we went with Magee because he's played both DT and DE. So I figure we are going to run a hybrid, and *hopefully* that experience will be invaluable (this is what I tell myself to sleep at night).

htismaqe
04-27-2009, 11:02 AM
I think we went with Magee because he's played both DT and DE. So I figure we are going to run a hybrid, and *hopefully* that experience will be invaluable (this is what I tell myself to sleep at night).

They also apparently project him to be able to play 2-gap in the future.

Ebolapox
04-27-2009, 11:08 AM
it's not popular, but I pretty much agree.

go with me here for a moment. there are several points that are irrefutable:

1) if this was a carl peterson draft, we vomit and die of dehydration from the sheer shittiness
2) scott pioli gets slack due to his three rings

look. would it have been nice to trade down? hell yeah. but it didn't happen. does that mean I'm not gonna tweak my madden 10 roster if it comes out for ps2? hell yeah. no cassel for me, thank you.

looking at it from a pick-by-pick basis, we got 'scott pioli' type players. jackson has a chance to be really good. 'tits' magee is a pretty damned good 5-technique and offer versatility. we got a damned good wideout late, and we didn't make the mistake the patriots did, we got out 'developmental' tackle in the fifth as opposed to the second round (which everybody glosses over because it's the pats).

I know little about our new cornerback or kicker. I realize it's cliche--I'll give pioli slack on this one. he's proven to be half of the dynamic duo that built a dynasty in the patriots. was it only him? hell no. it was equal parts brady and belichek. however, he's got a few years before I really get pissed. fuck, we already knew we weren't gonna be super-bowl champs this season--this is a foundational year. if these guys are part of the foundation of a possible dynasty, it's mission accomplished. otherwise, we're still in the shitter and pioli will be gone within a few years and we'll rinse/repeat. but to get to the top of the mountain, you have to have a solid set of gear and a sherpa. hopefully pioli is our sherpa, and he's supplied us with the necessary gear. if not, fuck it. it's not like we haven't seen failure before.

EyePod
04-27-2009, 11:10 AM
it's not popular, but I pretty much agree.

go with me here for a moment. there are several points that are irrefutable:

1) if this was a carl peterson draft, we vomit and die of dehydration from the sheer shittiness
2) scott pioli gets slack due to his three rings

look. would it have been nice to trade down? hell yeah. but it didn't happen. does that mean I'm not gonna tweak my madden 10 roster if it comes out for ps2? hell yeah. no cassel for me, thank you.

looking at it from a pick-by-pick basis, we got 'scott pioli' type players. jackson has a chance to be really good. 'tits' magee is a pretty damned good 5-technique and offer versatility. we got a damned good wideout late, and we didn't make the mistake the patriots did, we got out 'developmental' tackle in the fifth as opposed to the second round (which everybody glosses over because it's the pats).

I know little about our new cornerback or kicker. I realize it's cliche--I'll give pioli slack on this one. he's proven to be half of the dynamic duo that built a dynasty in the patriots. was it only him? hell no. it was equal parts brady and belichek. however, he's got a few years before I really get pissed. ****, we already knew we weren't gonna be super-bowl champs this season--this is a foundational year. if these guys are part of the foundation of a possible dynasty, it's mission accomplished. otherwise, we're still in the shitter and pioli will be gone within a few years and we'll rinse/repeat. but to get to the top of the mountain, you have to have a solid set of gear and a sherpa. hopefully pioli is our sherpa, and he's supplied us with the necessary gear. if not, **** it. it's not like we haven't seen failure before.

Right. My Pioli Kool-Aid is half full. If I see no improvement over the season, he might get some thrown in his face...

T-post Tom
04-27-2009, 11:31 AM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d81002b97&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Chiefs: If there were any doubts that Pioli and coach Todd Haley are all about the concept of team, look at what's gone on this week alone. They trade away the one true face of the franchise, tight end Tony Gonzalez -- for a 2010 second round pick, at that -- then they draft non-marquee players at non-marquee positions through most of the draft.

Pioli, using the successful formula he learned over the years with Belichick, wants to build the Chiefs from the guts out. He started by selecting LSU defensive end Tyson Jackson, who wasn't considered among the top defenders at the front end of the draft but he was the best defensive end for what Pioli and Haley want to build. The next two picks also came on defense and the fourth was an offensive lineman.

Take away Matt Cassel (who hasn't taken a snap for the Chiefs), running back Larry Johnson and maybe wide receiver Dwayne Bowe and name another player on the Chiefs roster in three seconds. Take a little longer than that doesn't it? Now, take away Tom Brady, Randy Moss and Wes Welker and name another player from the Patriots in three seconds. Get the point? [Obviously a rhetorical question for fans more casual than those among us.]

EyePod
04-27-2009, 11:33 AM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d81002b97&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Chiefs: If there were any doubts that Pioli and coach Todd Haley are all about the concept of team, look at what's gone on this week alone. They trade away the one true face of the franchise, tight end Tony Gonzalez -- for a 2010 second round pick, at that -- then they draft non-marquee players at non-marquee positions through most of the draft.

Pioli, using the successful formula he learned over the years with Belichick, wants to build the Chiefs from the guts out. He started by selecting LSU defensive end Tyson Jackson, who wasn't considered among the top defenders at the front end of the draft but he was the best defensive end for what Pioli and Haley want to build. The next two picks also came on defense and the fourth was an offensive lineman.

Take away Matt Cassel (who hasn't taken a snap for the Chiefs), running back Larry Johnson and maybe wide receiver Dwayne Bowe and name another player on the Chiefs roster in three seconds. Take a little longer than that doesn't it? Now, take away Tom Brady, Randy Moss and Wes Welker and name another player from the Patriots in three seconds. Get the point?

I could definitely name more, but I guess I'm educated! And all that this post says is what I tell myself to help me get to sleep at night.

Reaper16
04-27-2009, 11:52 AM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d81002b97&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Chiefs: If there were any doubts that Pioli and coach Todd Haley are all about the concept of team, look at what's gone on this week alone. They trade away the one true face of the franchise, tight end Tony Gonzalez -- for a 2010 second round pick, at that -- then they draft non-marquee players at non-marquee positions through most of the draft.

Pioli, using the successful formula he learned over the years with Belichick, wants to build the Chiefs from the guts out. He started by selecting LSU defensive end Tyson Jackson, who wasn't considered among the top defenders at the front end of the draft but he was the best defensive end for what Pioli and Haley want to build. The next two picks also came on defense and the fourth was an offensive lineman.

Take away Matt Cassel (who hasn't taken a snap for the Chiefs), running back Larry Johnson and maybe wide receiver Dwayne Bowe and name another player on the Chiefs roster in three seconds. Take a little longer than that doesn't it? Now, take away Tom Brady, Randy Moss and Wes Welker and name another player from the Patriots in three seconds. Get the point? [Obviously a rhetorical question for fans more casual than those among us.]
I think you could say that for plenty of teams, teams that aren't connected to the Parcells tree.

Stanley Nickels
12-29-2011, 04:47 PM
I think the Chiefs offseason in 4 years will be looked back on with a vile feeling.

It didn't take four years.

ChiefsCountry
12-29-2011, 04:49 PM
It didn't take four years.

It didn't take four minutes.

DomerNKC
12-29-2011, 05:08 PM
It didn't take four minutes.This draft (2009) is one reason why Haley is gone and a reason that Pioli is on the hot seat. A monumentally bad draft.

SNR
12-29-2011, 05:40 PM
Huge manatee