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DaWolf
04-26-2009, 11:08 PM
GM Pioli fills some needs in his first draft with Chiefs (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1163994.html)

By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star
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Scott Pioli’s first draft in Kansas City allowed the Chiefs to cover some ground. They added a couple of versatile linemen as they transition to the 3-4 defense, a nickel-back candidate, a kick-return specialist, a kicker and some developmental players.

Pioli, the Chiefs’ new general manager, said more moves would follow.

“We’re going to keep at it here,” he said Sunday as the Chiefs were finishing their eight-player draft. “Just because the draft’s over … anytime you think your football team is set and your roster is set, that’s when things start to creep up on you.

“There’s (still) a lot of ground to cover. We’ve started — and there’s a lot more ground to cover. As it stands today, we’re not done improving this football team. There are going to be a lot of things that happen with other teams and other people. There are going to be a lot of other opportunities. There are some people out there who were maybe free agents and it gets to about two weeks before the draft and some of the veteran free agents want to stop and settle down and see what’s going on and see what teams are going to draft and see where they think their opportunities may be the best.”

The Chiefs’ top two picks Sunday were defensive players, just like first-round selection Tyson Jackson. They took Purdue defensive lineman Alex Magee in the third round and Ohio State cornerback Donald Washington in the fourth.

“Obviously, they’ve had a little trouble stopping people (last year), and I don’t think in this league you have much of a chance to win if you can’t slow the other offense down,” Chiefs coach Todd Haley said about drafting defensive players with the top three choices. “Just the way it worked out I would say more than by design. But it’s something I’m happy about.”

Jackson and Magee can play a variety of defensive-line positions. Jackson will be starter at end but could move to tackle in passing situations. Magee’s role is less defined, but he probably will move around as well.

“Kansas City had been playing a different scheme, and obviously when you start to think about changing it over … you need certain types of players,” Haley said. “To get two big defensive linemen that we think have a chance to compete right away, that’s a big deal.”

The line remains very much a work in progress, though Haley did define some roles for returning players. He said Glenn Dorsey, last year’s top draft pick, and Alfonso Boone would probably play at end, joining Jackson and possibly Magee.

“This is all about competition, and the more competition you have at each position, the better,” Haley said. “Right now our defensive line just got a little more competitive.”

Ron Edwards and Tank Tyler are the nose tackles.

“There are a couple of guys already here in the building that I think have a chance to play over the center if we go that direction,” Haley said. “Ron Edwards has got some experience in there. He’s a big, strong guy. Tank Tyler is another guy that’s had some experience playing over the nose.”

Washington will be given a chance to be the third cornerback. In the sixth round, the Chiefs drafted McNeese State wide receiver Quinten Lawrence, who could be their return specialist this season.

With the final pick in the draft, the Chiefs drafted South Carolina kicker Ryan Succop, who will compete in training camp with Connor Barth.

During the draft’s two days, the Chiefs discussed a variety of swaps involving draft picks. The only one they successfully made was picking up an extra seventh-round choice in a trade with Miami that allowed the Chiefs to draft tight end Jake O’Connell of Miami, Ohio.

The Dolphins will receive Kansas City’s seventh-round pick in next year’s draft.

“We talked about a lot of different trades and a lot of different people, spent a lot of time on the phone,” Pioli said. “Sometimes making a trade we felt we would have to give up too much to get to certain spots. I love to look for trades and consider trades, but if they’re not right, we don’t consummate the trade.”

dj56dt58
04-27-2009, 10:26 AM
I think a lot of people here, the same ones who were excited when Pioli made this statement, forgot about it come draft time. It's about the right 53, not the best 53.

oldandslow
04-27-2009, 10:44 AM
Someone with more knowledge than me explain the how our personel will work in the 3-4.

From the article...

"The line remains very much a work in progress, though Haley did define some roles for returning players. He said Glenn Dorsey, last year’s top draft pick, and Alfonso Boone would probably play at end, joining Jackson and possibly Magee."

Dorsey, Boone, Jackson, & Magee at end...

Tank and Edwards at Tackle...

So this means Hali becomes our sack specialist????

So our starting LB'rs would be Johnson, Vrabel, Thomas, and Hali????

dj56dt58
04-27-2009, 10:50 AM
Someone with more knowledge than me explain the how our personel will work in the 3-4.

From the article...

"The line remains very much a work in progress, though Haley did define some roles for returning players. He said Glenn Dorsey, last year’s top draft pick, and Alfonso Boone would probably play at end, joining Jackson and possibly Magee."

Dorsey, Boone, Jackson, & Magee at end...

Tank and Edwards at Tackle...

So this means Hali becomes our sack specialist????

So our starting LB'rs would be Johnson, Vrabel, Thomas, and Hali????

I'm hoping we're not done with trades/FA and we can pick up a pass rusher to replace Hali..I was hoping we could find a way to trade back into the 2nd and pick up Brown

Chiefnj2
04-27-2009, 10:52 AM
Someone with more knowledge than me explain the how our personel will work in the 3-4.

From the article...

"The line remains very much a work in progress, though Haley did define some roles for returning players. He said Glenn Dorsey, last year’s top draft pick, and Alfonso Boone would probably play at end, joining Jackson and possibly Magee."

Dorsey, Boone, Jackson, & Magee at end...

Tank and Edwards at Tackle...

So this means Hali becomes our sack specialist????

So our starting LB'rs would be Johnson, Vrabel, Thomas, and Hali????

I'd guess Hali and Vrabel are the OLB's and Johnson and Thomas on the inside.
The DL left to right: Dorsey/Magee, Edwards/Tyler, Jackson/Robinson(pass only).

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2009, 10:53 AM
I'd guess Hali and Vrabel are the OLB's and Johnson and Thomas on the inside.
The DL left to right: Dorsey/Magee, Edwards/Tyler, Jackson/Robinson(pass only).

Ack.

Direckshun
04-27-2009, 10:58 AM
I have impossible expectations.

FYP.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2009, 11:01 AM
FYP.

Joke all you want.

They MIGHT be better stopping the run, but there is nothing to suggest they won't get torched through the air.

You can't expect these CB's to cover for 8 seconds because you can't get anyone in the same zip code as the QB.

htismaqe
04-27-2009, 11:03 AM
I'd guess Hali and Vrabel are the OLB's and Johnson and Thomas on the inside.
The DL left to right: Dorsey/Magee, Edwards/Tyler, Jackson/Robinson(pass only).

I would guess you're right.

Direckshun
04-27-2009, 11:05 AM
Joke all you want.

They MIGHT be better stopping the run, but there is nothing to suggest they won't get torched through the air.

You can't expect these CB's to cover for 8 seconds because you can't get anyone in the same zip code as the QB.

Using the first two picks, I'd like to see you upgrade the Chiefs' bankrupt front seven more than Pioli just did.

I would have selected Raji instead of Jackson, but I think that's a quibble of preferences because I don't think Jackson is that much of a downgrade, if it's any downgrade whatsoever.

Chiefnj2
04-27-2009, 11:21 AM
I would guess you're right.

It ends up that KC used two top 5 picks on 3-4 DE's. Wow.

htismaqe
04-27-2009, 11:25 AM
It ends up that KC used two top 5 picks on 3-4 DE's. Wow.

Yeah, kinda crazy.

mlyonsd
04-27-2009, 11:30 AM
Joke all you want.

They MIGHT be better stopping the run, but there is nothing to suggest they won't get torched through the air.

You can't expect these CB's to cover for 8 seconds because you can't get anyone in the same zip code as the QB.

Maybe I should wake up because from what I've been watching the last few years I thought we were playing the 3-4 and we just sucked at it.

I doubt you can put less pressure on the QB than we have recently.

Just Passin' By
04-27-2009, 11:33 AM
Joke all you want.

They MIGHT be better stopping the run, but there is nothing to suggest they won't get torched through the air.

You can't expect these CB's to cover for 8 seconds because you can't get anyone in the same zip code as the QB.

Exactly how many draft picks do you think the Chiefs had? You can't expect a team to fix 30+ roster spots with 1 draft.

ChiefRon
04-27-2009, 11:39 AM
Joke all you want.

They MIGHT be better stopping the run, but there is nothing to suggest they won't get torched through the air.

You can't expect these CB's to cover for 8 seconds because you can't get anyone in the same zip code as the QB.

Ok, let me play devil's advocate with you: it generally takes DL a year or two to adjust to NFL

What if Tank + Dorsey + McBride explode this year and thrive in new scheme and by disguising our rushes, they prove to be effective in getting there.

Then bypassing on Raji (or a pass-rusher there) for Jackson will prove to be smart.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2009, 11:46 AM
Exactly how many draft picks do you think the Chiefs had? You can't expect a team to fix 30+ roster spots with 1 draft.

Who said that?

Face it, they created even more holes by moving to the 3-4. By using our first 2 picks on 5 technique DE's, they've all but announced that neither Dorsey or McBride are capable of playing the position, which means 2 more high wasted picks, and 2 more holes to fill, while other, more important needs sit unfilled.

But even then, you'd have to be blind to miss the players they passed on with huge value and upside at positions of need.

I think the following meets both, value and need:

BJ Raji
Jarron Gilbert
Lawrence Sidbury
Jamon Meridith
Matt Slauson
AQ Shipley
Dannell Ellerbe

That gives us a NT, 5 technique, pass rusher, starting RT, developmental depth at guard, a possible starter at center and a developmental ILB that according to all scouting reports has a very good chance of being a solid starter in this league. And we keep our 2010 7th round pick.

Instead, we have no NT, no pass rusher, no starting RT, and no OL depth.

But we have 2 5 techniques, a 5th RB, a 4th TE, a kicker and no 7th round pick next year.

The WR out of McNeese was our best pick of the weekend. Value and talent.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2009, 11:48 AM
Ok, let me play devil's advocate with you: it generally takes DL a year or two to adjust to NFL

What if Tank + Dorsey + McBride explode this year and thrive in new scheme and by disguising our rushes, they prove to be effective in getting there.

Then bypassing on Raji (or a pass-rusher there) for Jackson will prove to be smart.

You're right, it does take several years.

And now, several years into the league (except in the case of Dorsey) they are all learning an entirely new scheme.

I think McBride had a chance to be a solid 5 technique, but it starting to look like the other 2 will become wasted picks.

I hope I'm wrong on that bolded part.

dirk digler
04-27-2009, 11:50 AM
I wouldn't consider McBride anything more than a bust at this point. Another typical Carl second round pick.

htismaqe
04-27-2009, 11:50 AM
Ok, let me play devil's advocate with you: it generally takes DL a year or two to adjust to NFL

What if Tank + Dorsey + McBride explode this year and thrive in new scheme and by disguising our rushes, they prove to be effective in getting there.

Then bypassing on Raji (or a pass-rusher there) for Jackson will prove to be smart.

If all 3 of those guys "explode" this year, it probably means that Jackson wasn't even on the field (because they all play similar positions).

Direckshun
04-27-2009, 11:51 AM
Gilbert over Magee feels like contrarian, Mecca crap. Talent wise, there's little that separates them.

But Magee will suffer through less of a positional transition to 3-4 DE than Gilbert will, who has never rushed the passer or played the 5-tech. Magee won't suffer from a huge competition increase and Gilbert, who played against smaller programs, definitely would.

For this team, Magee > Gilbert.

Chiefnj2
04-27-2009, 11:51 AM
If the team is jumping into the 3-4 then why not make an attempt at Canty or Olshansky during free agency?

ChiefRon
04-27-2009, 11:52 AM
But even then, you'd have to be blind to miss the players they passed on with huge value and upside at positions of need.

I think the following meets both, value and need:

BJ Raji
Jarron Gilbert
Lawrence Sidbury
Jamon Meridith
Matt Slauson
AQ Shipley
Dannell Ellerbe



I agree with your analysis - I'm trying to understand why?

Do these guys have work ethic issues, character flags, etc that would take them off our board? And Ellerbe went undrafted, right? Any known reason why?

ChiefRon
04-27-2009, 11:53 AM
If all 3 of those guys "explode" this year, it probably means that Jackson wasn't even on the field (because they all play similar positions).

rotation is key

Chiefnj2
04-27-2009, 11:53 AM
Gilbert over Magee feels like contrarian, Mecca crap. Talent wise, there's little that separates them.

But Magee will suffer through less of a positional transition to 3-4 DE than Gilbert will, who has never rushed the passer or played the 5-tech. Magee won't suffer from a huge competition increase and Gilbert, who played against smaller programs, definitely would.

For this team, Magee > Gilbert.

Are you saying Gilbert never rushed the passer?

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2009, 11:54 AM
I agree with your analysis - I'm trying to understand why?

Do these guys have work ethic issues, character flags, etc that would take them off our board? And Ellerbe went undrafted, right? Any known reason why?

Nope.

Mayock said he was shocked he was still on the board in the SIXTH.

Baltimore signed him as an UDFA.

KcFanInGA
04-27-2009, 11:54 AM
Gilbert over Magee feels like contrarian, Mecca crap. Talent wise, there's little that separates them.

But Magee will suffer through less of a positional transition to 3-4 DE than Gilbert will, who has never rushed the passer or played the 5-tech. Magee won't suffer from a huge competition increase and Gilbert, who played against smaller programs, definitely would.

For this team, Magee > Gilbert.

exactly.:clap:

ChiefRon
04-27-2009, 11:56 AM
Are you saying Gilbert never rushed the passer?

Again, I pose to you: if both prospects were similar, what's the diff in their work ethic / passion drive / how important is football to them / intelligence

I'm not the draft expert, someone who knows should pipe in a show us comparisons of those "intangibles"

Chiefnj2
04-27-2009, 11:57 AM
Again, I pose to you: if both prospects were similar, what's the diff in their work ethic / passion drive / how important is football to them / intelligence

I'm not the draft expert, someone who knows should pipe in a show us comparisons of those "intangibles"

I have no idea. I was commenting on direckshun's comment that Gilbert never rushed the passer, which is far as I know is completely untrue.

htismaqe
04-27-2009, 11:59 AM
I wouldn't consider McBride anything more than a bust at this point. Another typical Carl second round pick.

EVERY scouting report said he was a 4-3 undertackle. The Chiefs promptly moved him to defensive end.

He may have underperformed to this point, but you can't really put that directly on him.

Just Passin' By
04-27-2009, 11:59 AM
Who said that?

Face it, they created even more holes by moving to the 3-4. By using our first 2 picks on 5 technique DE's, they've all but announced that neither Dorsey or McBride are capable of playing the position, which means 2 more high wasted picks, and 2 more holes to fill, while other, more important needs sit unfilled.

But even then, you'd have to be blind to miss the players they passed on with huge value and upside at positions of need.

I think the following meets both, value and need:

BJ Raji
Jarron Gilbert
Lawrence Sidbury
Jamon Meridith
Matt Slauson
AQ Shipley
Dannell Ellerbe

That gives us a NT, 5 technique, pass rusher, starting RT, developmental depth at guard, a possible starter at center and a developmental ILB that according to all scouting reports has a very good chance of being a solid starter in this league. And we keep our 2010 7th round pick.

Instead, we have no NT, no pass rusher, no starting RT, and no OL depth.

But we have 2 5 techniques, a 5th RB, a 4th TE, a kicker and no 7th round pick next year.

The WR out of McNeese was our best pick of the weekend. Value and talent.


That 4-3 defense produced 2 wins, was 29th in points allowed, 28th against the pass and 30th against the run.

As for the draft, the Chiefs probably did fine. Not taking your preferred players is not the same as having a bad draft.

dirk digler
04-27-2009, 12:05 PM
EVERY scouting report said he was a 4-3 undertackle. The Chiefs promptly moved him to defensive end.

He may have underperformed to this point, but you can't really put that directly on him.

Edit: Nevermind. Looked up the Colts D and their under tackles weigh around 260-280

I will give you that the previous coaching staff were worthless so we will see in training camp if he makes the 53-man roster.

Direckshun
04-27-2009, 12:59 PM
Are you saying Gilbert never rushed the passer?

He has, but from the 3-Tech, which requires a different everything than a 5-Tech.

The transition isn't that extreme, but every transition you have to make is like walking your player over a 1,000 foot-high tightrope. If you can avoid it, which we did with Magee, you do.

Just Passin' By
04-27-2009, 01:42 PM
As a follow up, the post-draft moves have now begun:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/27/bengals-bounce-chris-perry/

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4105213

Raised On Riots
04-27-2009, 02:43 PM
I think a lot of people here, the same ones who were excited when Pioli made this statement, forgot about it come draft time. It's about the right 53, not the best 53.

We'll see come game day, but right now that shit rings so hollow and sounds so much like a CYA, I can't take it seriously.

htismaqe
04-27-2009, 03:35 PM
We'll see come game day, but right now that shit rings so hollow and sounds so much like a CYA, I can't take it seriously.

Why? Because they didn't take the guys you wanted?

That's like you telling me to buy a BMW and when I buy a Mercedes, you call me a liar because I said I wanted the "right" car.

Raised On Riots
04-27-2009, 03:46 PM
Why? Because they didn't take the guys you wanted?

That's like you telling me to buy a BMW and when I buy a Mercedes, you call me a liar because I said I wanted the "right" car.

:p