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RINGLEADER
04-27-2009, 10:30 AM
What's the point of grading a draft of players who haven't played yet?

We should be reviewing our 2006 draft:

1st - Tamba Hali: C- (giving him a letter for play across from Jared Allen) - STARTER
2nd - Bernard Pollard: C- (too inconsistent) - STARTER
3rd - Brodie Croyle: D- (really an "F" as QBOTF) - BACK-UP
5th - Marcus Maxey: F (who?) - NO LONGER IN NFL
6th - Tre Stallings: F (played in only one game) - ON RAVENS PRACTICE SQUAD
6th - Jeff Webb: D (had an okay sophmore season before regressing last year) - BACK-UP
7th - Jarred Page: B+ (excellent value pick) - STARTER

I'd give CP and Co. a solid D+ for this one.

T-post Tom
04-27-2009, 10:32 AM
If Hali goes LB, you may have to revise your grade after this season. :hmmm:

Sure-Oz
04-27-2009, 10:34 AM
Hali looks like an urukai from LOTR

DeezNutz
04-27-2009, 10:34 AM
That's not a good looking draft.

the Talking Can
04-27-2009, 10:35 AM
pitiful draft

Buehler445
04-27-2009, 10:37 AM
Horrid. I imagine 2007 will be similar, unless turk and tank pull their heads out of their asses.

Hopefully 2008 will be better.
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Sure-Oz
04-27-2009, 10:37 AM
Tamba peaked before he even got to the chiefs and everyone knew he had no upside

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2009, 10:37 AM
That's not a good looking draft.

I don't know.

I really do think that there is some talent there, I just think that coaching has really held some of these guys back.

That's why I'm kinda frustrated that we not only kept Krumrie, but that we're changing to a scheme that makes guys like Hali and Dorsey worthless. I would have been interested to see how they looked in a 4-3 under a different DC.

the Talking Can
04-27-2009, 10:43 AM
we suck ass

DeezNutz
04-27-2009, 10:44 AM
I don't know.

I really do think that there is some talent there, I just think that coaching has really held some of these guys back.

That's why I'm kinda frustrated that we not only kept Krumrie, but that we're changing to a scheme that makes guys like Hali and Dorsey worthless. I would have been interested to see how they looked in a 4-3 under a different DC.

Maybe.

But part of my disdain for that draft is also tied to the fact that the organization's misguided adoration of Brodie fucking Croyle has caused a set back in trying to find a real answer for the most important position on the field.

Tamba, I think, can be serviceable. Pollard and Page, maybe with better coaching...but 3-6 are a complete cluster fuck.

veist
04-27-2009, 12:01 PM
To be fair, pulling a starter out of 4 picks in the 5th through 7th rounds and 3 fails isn't that terrible. Its probably more like typical than terrible.

EyePod
04-27-2009, 12:03 PM
What's the point of grading a draft of players who haven't played yet?

We should be reviewing our 2006 draft:

1st - Tamba Hali: C- (giving him a letter for play across from Jared Allen) - STARTER
2nd - Bernard Pollard: C- (too inconsistent) - STARTER
3rd - Brodie Croyle: D- (really an "F" as QBOTF) - BACK-UP
5th - Marcus Maxey: F (who?) - NO LONGER IN NFL
6th - Tre Stallings: F (played in only one game) - ON RAVENS PRACTICE SQUAD
6th - Jeff Webb: D (had an okay sophmore season before regressing last year) - BACK-UP
7th - Jarred Page: B+ (excellent value pick) - STARTER

I'd give CP and Co. a solid D+ for this one.

I really disagree with the Pollard pick. He improved a lot last year, and tackled. For someone who "couldn't tackle" he did a lot better. Also, he should be used correctly *hopefully* a la Adrian Wilson style. I'd give him a C+ at the lowest, just because he shouldn't have been a 2nd round pick.

EyePod
04-27-2009, 12:03 PM
Hali looks like an urukai from LOTR

HAHAHAHA

Mr. Arrowhead
04-27-2009, 12:03 PM
really Brodie Croyle should be a F, hes a 3rd string qb on an average at best football team

EyePod
04-27-2009, 12:05 PM
Hali looks like an urukai from LOTR

http://www.mirko-meitzner.de/urukai.jpghttp://www.kcchiefs.com/media/players/tamba_hali.jpg

Distant cousins?

EyePod
04-27-2009, 12:05 PM
really Brodie Croyle should be a F, hes a 3rd string qb on an average at best football team

It really sucks cause I think he had the ability to be a good starter, but his body wouldn't keep up with him. At least his wife's body is smoking...

Chiefnj2
04-27-2009, 12:08 PM
On paper Hali, Tyler, Dorsey and Allen could have made a pretty good DL assuming the staff played them to their strengths.

Reaper16
04-27-2009, 12:09 PM
Because, like a lot of posters who look upon the 2009 draft favorably, you don't seem to understand that the draft grades are not really about the players themselves but about the picks. Draft value has considerable weight in the post-draft grading process.

I mean, I like Tyson Jackson as a player. I think he's going to be an instrumental part of the future defensive success that the Chiefs experience. But I think it was a below-average (to be kind) draft pick.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2009, 12:10 PM
Because, like a lot of posters who look upon the 2009 draft favorably, you don't seem to understand that the draft grades are not really about the players themselves but about the picks. Draft value has considerable weight in the post-draft grading process.

I mean, I like Tyson Jackson as a player. I think he's going to be an instrumental part of the future defensive success that the Chiefs experience. But I think it was a below-average (to be kind) draft pick.

This, this, a million times THIS.

EyePod
04-27-2009, 12:14 PM
Because, like a lot of posters who look upon the 2009 draft favorably, you don't seem to understand that the draft grades are not really about the players themselves but about the picks. Draft value has considerable weight in the post-draft grading process.

I mean, I like Tyson Jackson as a player. I think he's going to be an instrumental part of the future defensive success that the Chiefs experience. But I think it was a below-average (to be kind) draft pick.

We couldn't trade down. I'd rather us take the player we want 7 picks higher than he should go than take someone who is really good value but our staff doesn't think is as important. Draft value is relative. It's not the same for every team. We didn't value WR as much as other teams, so we took DE instead. There's not some universal value of a player.

Direckshun
04-27-2009, 12:14 PM
1st: DE/OLB Tamba Hali - C-

Bust.

2nd: SS Bernard Pollard - B-

I still see potential in Pollard now that we're switching to a friendlier scheme for him.

3rd: QB Brodie Croyle - F

Bust.

5th: CB Marcus Maxey - F

Bust, but this one's forgivable.

6th: Tre Stallings - F

Bust.

6th: Jeff Webb - D

Not much to be excited about. Herm picked this guy from a personal connection.

7th: Jarred Page - A+

Now that we're switching to a friendlier defense, Page could actually take off.

Overall, this draft gave us a situational pass-rusher and two starting safeties. That sucks ass. D.

EyePod
04-27-2009, 12:17 PM
1st: DE/OLB Tamba Hali - C-

Bust.

2nd: SS Bernard Pollard - B-

I still see potential in Pollard now that we're switching to a friendlier scheme for him.

3rd: QB Brodie Croyle - F

Bust.

5th: CB Marcus Maxey - F

Bust, but this one's forgivable.

6th: Tre Stallings - F

Bust.

6th: Jeff Webb - D

Not much to be excited about. Herm picked this guy from a personal connection.

7th: Jarred Page - A+

Now that we're switching to a friendlier defense, Page could actually take off.

Overall, this draft gave us a situational pass-rusher and two starting safeties. That sucks ass. D.

You should also weight the higher picks more. It might be a D+ then?

Fritz88
04-27-2009, 12:22 PM
horrible horrible draft. can someone please use the memory zapper on me to remove any traces of that shit from my head

http://www.collider.com/uploads/imageGallery/Men_in_Black/men_in_black_movie_image_tommy_lee_jones_and_will_smith.jpg

Sully
04-27-2009, 12:23 PM
If cassell turns out to be great, does Pollard's grade go up?

DeezNutz
04-27-2009, 12:24 PM
If cassell turns out to be great, does Pollard's grade go up?

:clap:

EyePod
04-27-2009, 12:27 PM
If cassell turns out to be great, does Pollard's grade go up?

LOL I had to think about that one for a second...

jAZ
04-27-2009, 12:30 PM
Because, like a lot of posters who look upon the 2009 draft favorably, you don't seem to understand that the draft grades are not really about the players themselves but about the picks. Draft value has considerable weight in the post-draft grading process.

I mean, I like Tyson Jackson as a player. I think he's going to be an instrumental part of the future defensive success that the Chiefs experience. But I think it was a below-average (to be kind) draft pick.

You win games and championships with players and coaches, not with draft grades and picks.

So if draft grades aren't about the players or winning games, then I don't think anyone should give a shit about them.

jAZ
04-27-2009, 12:33 PM
This, this, a million times THIS.

Wow.

You guys are focused on "winning the press conference" when the only thing that matters is winning the game.

Who cares if someone thinks we could have gotten better "value" with some different player at that pick.

If the players we take come in and fit the puzzle being assembled, it doesn't matter whether we get them at #3 or #256.

I'll take the right player in the 1st round who everyone else projected as a 7th round pick every day, if he helps us win the games we've been losing for the last decade.

Thig Lyfe
04-27-2009, 12:34 PM
JARRRRRRRAAAAAAD PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGEEEEEEEEE

EyePod
04-27-2009, 12:34 PM
You win games and championships with players and coaches, not with draft grades and picks.

So if draft grades aren't about the players or winning games, then I don't think anyone should give a shit about them.

Yep, I hope we get F's and then we win the SB. Shove it to Mel Kiper. He's not good at evaluating talent. He's only good at evaluating who's gonna draft who (unless there's a trade).

mlyonsd
04-27-2009, 12:35 PM
If cassell turns out to be great, does Pollard's grade go up?

LOL, that's bad.

EyePod
04-27-2009, 12:36 PM
Wow.

You guys are focused on "winning the press conference" when the only thing that matters is winning the game.

Who cares if someone thinks we could have gotten better "value" with some different player at that pick.

If the players we take come in and fit the puzzle being assembled, it doesn't matter whether we get them at #3 or #256.

I'll take the right player in the 1st round who everyone else projected as a 7th round pick every day, if he helps us win the games we've been losing for the last decade.

Are you Al Davis? I'd rather take that guy in the 6th at least....

jAZ
04-27-2009, 12:39 PM
Are you Al Davis? I'd rather take that guy in the 6th at least....

If they are the right player to help us win games and championships, no one cares when they are drafted. I'm not saying it matters zero, I'm saying winning matters, and all of the hand wringing about projected value today is pointless.

If you are just having fun with all of this, then it's no big deal. But if you are genuniely torching the team and coaches because you know what's right and they did what's wrong, you are an idiot.

Winning is the only thing.

Reaper16
04-27-2009, 12:40 PM
You win games and championships with players and coaches, not with draft grades and picks.

So if draft grades aren't about the players or winning games, then I don't think anyone should give a shit about them.

Wow.

You guys are focused on "winning the press conference" when the only thing that matters is winning the game.

Who cares if someone thinks we could have gotten better "value" with some different player at that pick.

If the players we take come in and fit the puzzle being assembled, it doesn't matter whether we get them at #3 or #256.

I'll take the right player in the 1st round who everyone else projected as a 7th round pick every day, if he helps us win the games we've been losing for the last decade.
Its about resource management, and Pioli was inefficient at it this weekend. Now, you're right in a sense in that if Pioli hits on all these guys then the point that it was a poor draft, value wise, is going to be moot.

I'm having trouble thinking of a successful modern team besides the Patriots who "mismanages" the draft to this degree. It may be that Pioli and Haley are wildly successful at finding players for their schemes and philosophies, and that typical draft value can be ignored without worry. I hope that that becomes the case. I can't see it being likely, though.

Blindside58
04-27-2009, 12:44 PM
Nice Change-up Thread! Do 05 and 04 Next.

Chiefnj2
04-27-2009, 01:06 PM
Wow.

You guys are focused on "winning the press conference" when the only thing that matters is winning the game.

Who cares if someone thinks we could have gotten better "value" with some different player at that pick.

If the players we take come in and fit the puzzle being assembled, it doesn't matter whether we get them at #3 or #256.

I'll take the right player in the 1st round who everyone else projected as a 7th round pick every day, if he helps us win the games we've been losing for the last decade.

Right now it is the only thing to focus on. The draft is a 6 month buildup. You can't expect 6 months of anticipation to blow over immediately. Time will tell. If Jackson ends up being like Seymour and Cassel turns into a good reliable QB then Pioli will be CP genius.

Reaper16
04-27-2009, 01:16 PM
Right now it is the only thing to focus on. The draft is a 6 month buildup. You can't expect 6 months of anticipation to blow over immediately. Time will tell. If Jackson ends up being like Seymour and Cassel turns into a good reliable QB then Pioli will be CP genius.
Who doesn't expect Cassel to be "good, reliable?" Especially given the dearth of good starting QBs in the league? We'd better hope that Cassel is more than just good and reliable.

Nzoner
04-27-2009, 01:47 PM
I'm having trouble thinking of a successful modern team besides the Patriots who "mismanages" the draft to this degree. It may be that Pioli and Haley are wildly successful at finding players for their schemes and philosophies, and that typical draft value can be ignored without worry. I hope that that becomes the case. I can't see it being likely, though.

I like what Gil Brandt said,"Scouting is an inexact science, but it is also a very thorough science. So much goes into the evaluation of college prospects, who will be taking part in NFL minicamps in just a few short weeks.

After scouting games in person, watching hours and hours of game tape, checking out players at the combine and pro days around the country, draft boards are taking shape. Of course, draft boards vary from team to team. As I've always said, some people like rocky road ice cream and some people prefer vanilla."

And for the fwiw he also said Jackson would be a top 5 pick.


Like you though all I can do is hope right now.

EyePod
04-27-2009, 02:14 PM
Its about resource management, and Pioli was inefficient at it this weekend. Now, you're right in a sense in that if Pioli hits on all these guys then the point that it was a poor draft, value wise, is going to be moot.

I'm having trouble thinking of a successful modern team besides the Patriots who "mismanages" the draft to this degree. It may be that Pioli and Haley are wildly successful at finding players for their schemes and philosophies, and that typical draft value can be ignored without worry. I hope that that becomes the case. I can't see it being likely, though.

I wholeheartedly agree. I am in the hoping stage, but I'm not too hopeful...

Nzoner
04-27-2009, 02:16 PM
I am in the hoping stage, but I'm not too hopeful...

I'm more hopeful now than I've been in years,just not quite enough to break down and get season tickets again.