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seaofred
04-29-2009, 05:17 PM
If I'm not mistaken Flowers was drafted last year, because he was the best Tampa 2 corner in the draft. He went in the second, because other teams that needed a CB weren't Tampa 2 D's.


My question is, will he be any good in our new D?

Pestilence
04-29-2009, 05:17 PM
We're about to find out.

DaKCMan AP
04-29-2009, 05:28 PM
Flowers is a physical corner with great ball skills. He fell because of his height, 40 time and character concerns - not because of any perceived defensive system fit.

Blick
04-29-2009, 05:50 PM
I'm pretty sure they play a lot of man to man at Va Tech, so he should be fine.

htismaqe
04-29-2009, 06:11 PM
Flowers is a physical corner with great ball skills. He fell because of his height, 40 time and character concerns - not because of any perceived defensive system fit.

Yep.

I'm just concerned that the new staff has a "profile" for corners and they won't like his measurables.

ChiefaRoo
04-29-2009, 06:13 PM
Kevin Ross had bad measurables too. He turned out ok.

Tribal Warfare
04-29-2009, 06:18 PM
Yep.

I'm just concerned that the new staff has a "profile" for corners and they won't like his measurables.

Asante Sameul isn't the biggest guy in the universe and he was drafted by the Pats.

Blick
04-29-2009, 06:21 PM
Ellis Hobbs isn't a big guy either.

htismaqe
04-29-2009, 06:36 PM
I know that the Patriots had a history of drafting guys that were under 6'. That doesn't mean these guys will stick with that. Other than Pioli, it's a completely different staff.

The first CB we took is a legit 6-footer with crazy measurables. I'm not saying that spells doom for Flowers and Carr - it just concerns me.

DaKCMan AP
04-29-2009, 06:42 PM
I know that the Patriots had a history of drafting guys that were under 6'. That doesn't mean these guys will stick with that. Other than Pioli, it's a completely different staff.

The first CB we took is a legit 6-footer with crazy measurables. I'm not saying that spells doom for Flowers and Carr - it just concerns me.

The thing is everything we've read about these guys is that they ignore measureables and focus on guys who are football players and perform in games and on tape. Flowers is a gamer.

chiefforlife
04-29-2009, 07:28 PM
The Broncos just gave up a first round pick for Alphonso Smith, who is also 5'9" and plays much like Flowers. They are transitioning to the same D we are. I think he will be fine, above all else, he is a football player.

JASONSAUTO
04-29-2009, 07:29 PM
The Broncos just gave up a first round pick for Alphonso Smith, who is also 5'9" and plays much like Flowers. They are transitioning to the same D we are. I think he will be fine, above all else, he is a football player.

ROFL still cant get over that

JASONSAUTO
04-29-2009, 07:31 PM
I know that the Patriots had a history of drafting guys that were under 6'. That doesn't mean these guys will stick with that. Other than Pioli, it's a completely different staff.

The first CB we took is a legit 6-footer with crazy measurables. I'm not saying that spells doom for Flowers and Carr - it just concerns me.

isnt carr 6'???

htismaqe
04-29-2009, 07:51 PM
isnt carr 6'???

The Chiefs website lists him as 6'. GVSU listed him as 6'1".

Micjones
04-29-2009, 07:53 PM
Flowers is a gamer.
He's the last young player on this defense I'm worried about.

Ultra Peanut
04-29-2009, 07:56 PM
put him in your hair
and shake your ass boy
show me what you're working with

htismaqe
04-29-2009, 07:56 PM
Flowers is a gamer.
He's the last young player on this defense I'm worried about.

Unfortunately, sometimes new regimes make changes to fit their model, whether it's truly a good idea or not. I would hope they think we've got a couple of good young corners, but you never know.

Micjones
04-29-2009, 08:02 PM
Unfortunately, sometimes new regimes make changes to fit their model, whether it's truly a good idea or not. I would hope they think we've got a couple of good young corners, but you never know.

That absolutely happens in the NFL, but if this administration doesn't realize what it has in Flowers...the organization's in real trouble.

htismaqe
04-29-2009, 08:24 PM
That absolutely happens in the NFL, but if this administration doesn't realize what it has in Flowers...the organization's in real trouble.

I absolutely agree.

RedThat
04-29-2009, 08:45 PM
Flowers will be fine. Im more concerned about Brandon Carr.

aturnis
04-29-2009, 08:47 PM
I don't understand what you're so concerned about. The guy fell into a spot where he became great value. He fit the criteria, had great measureables, and improves our stable of young db's. Upgrades the nickel spot whether it's directly by playing it, or if he bumps Carr, which I doubt will happen.

Then again, the Patriots always treated CB's as disposable assets. Who knows.

I'd like to see the team get themselves into a position to get an elite pass rusher next year, and either Mays or Berry. One of those two guys would really open up this defense for a freelancing safety to make some plays.

htismaqe
04-29-2009, 08:49 PM
Flowers will be fine. Im more concerned about Brandon Carr.

I've been reading scouting reports tonight, and alot of them seem to think Carr's natural position might be free safety...

bdeg
04-29-2009, 08:52 PM
I could definitely see that, but is he a good enough tackler?

RustShack
04-29-2009, 08:52 PM
I think Flowers will be fine, just not as good as he could be in a Tampa-two defense.

Buehler445
04-29-2009, 08:57 PM
The thing is everything we've read about these guys is that they ignore measureables and focus on guys who are football players and perform in games and on tape. Flowers is a gamer.

That was my thought too. The one guy that played well on D. The ONE.

That absolutely happens in the NFL, but if this administration doesn't realize what it has in Flowers...the organization's in real trouble.

Truth.

Flowers will be fine. Im more concerned about Brandon Carr.

Why do you say that? He is not as good as Flowers, but he had a much more intense transition from College (like Division 85 or whatever Grand Valley State is) than did Flowers.

htismaqe
04-29-2009, 09:00 PM
That was my thought too. The one guy that played well on D. The ONE.

The problem is that, outside of Jackson and a couple of the picks in the last 2 rounds, they pretty much ran this draft on measurables.

Kind of confusing.

HemiEd
04-29-2009, 09:21 PM
I've been reading scouting reports tonight, and alot of them seem to think Carr's natural position might be free safety...

That is very interesting, and may explain why they drafted a CB.

MIAdragon
04-29-2009, 09:24 PM
I've been reading scouting reports tonight, and alot of them seem to think Carr's natural position might be free safety...

I thought Morgan was a FS?

Tribal Warfare
04-29-2009, 09:50 PM
That is very interesting, and may explain why they drafted a CB.

or they drafted a CB that could play FS, Washington doesn't have speed that Carr has but is quick at short distances and breaks which would be perfect for a FS.

Garcia Bronco
04-29-2009, 10:07 PM
If I'm not mistaken Flowers was drafted last year, because he was the best Tampa 2 corner in the draft. He went in the second, because other teams that needed a CB weren't Tampa 2 D's.


My question is, will he be any good in our new D?

He'll excel in any system. He's crafty, smart, and has the God given talent to make it all happen. A really good selection.

RedThat
04-29-2009, 11:00 PM
That was my thought too. The one guy that played well on D. The ONE.



Truth.



Why do you say that? He is not as good as Flowers, but he had a much more intense transition from College (like Division 85 or whatever Grand Valley State is) than did Flowers.

Because I don't think he possesses enough speed, and his change of direction needs work.

kcchiefsus
04-29-2009, 11:15 PM
Because I don't think he possesses enough speed, and his change of direction needs work.

As far as 40 time is concerned I believe Carr ran in the high 4.4's which would make him faster than both Flowers and Washington.

I don't see why Carr doesn't have what it takes to play in this league at a high level. Athletically he is very gifted. He played remarkably well for a rookie coming from a division II school, surrounded by mediocre talent, and playing with a historically bad pass rush.

Tribal Warfare
04-29-2009, 11:22 PM
As far as 40 time is concerned I believe Carr ran in the high 4.4's


He ran a 4.43

kcchiefsus
04-29-2009, 11:25 PM
He ran a 4.43

Cool, even better than I thought.

thurman merman
04-29-2009, 11:27 PM
brandon flowers is fucking awesome.

EyePod
04-30-2009, 06:12 AM
Flowers is a physical corner with great ball skills. He fell because of his height, 40 time and character concerns - not because of any perceived defensive system fit.

That's the problem though, he doesn't have that really good corner speed and is therefore a fit for the tampon 2..

Buehler445
04-30-2009, 07:32 AM
Because I don't think he possesses enough speed, and his change of direction needs work.

Fair enough.

The plays I remember him blowing, he was out of position, which can be expected coming from a DII school. Hopefully that can be rectified through coaching.

DaKCMan AP
04-30-2009, 07:40 AM
That's the problem though, he doesn't have that really good corner speed and is therefore a fit for the tampon 2..

Wrong. He doesn't have shorts & t-shirt, timed track speed. He has game speed, quickness, physicality and stellar technique. He can play corner in any system for any team.

Tribal Warfare
04-30-2009, 07:55 AM
Wrong. He doesn't have shorts & t-shirt, timed track speed. He has game speed, quickness, physicality and stellar technique. He can play corner in any system for any team.

Shall I say it? Very similar to *cough* Ty Law *cough* in his prime

RedThat
04-30-2009, 08:01 AM
Few things I really like about Flowers when we drafted him, are his physical ability, and his ability to disect plays...He was known for that in college.

I think he can be a real physical/tough corner that possesses great smarts to go along with instincts. Great combination.

Fritz88
04-30-2009, 08:06 AM
BF is going to be fine :)

htismaqe
04-30-2009, 08:49 AM
40 times are overrated.

Demonpenz
04-30-2009, 08:50 AM
his question is....are we human, or are we dancer

L.A. Chieffan
04-30-2009, 08:58 AM
my sign is vital, my hands are cold

Buehler445
04-30-2009, 09:02 AM
40 times are overrated.

Truth. The last couple years Surtain was here, he was slow as motherfucking shit, but he was servicable.
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Raised On Riots
04-30-2009, 09:04 AM
Teams always throw rookie CB's who play like second year guys in their first season, and who pick off HOF-bound QB's for 92 yard pick sixes to the curb.

Happens all the time.

http://juggo.net/gifs/media/super-retard.gif

Buehler445
04-30-2009, 09:13 AM
Teams always throw rookie CB's who play like second year guys in their first season, and who pick off HOF-bound QB's for 92 yard pick sixes to the curb.

Happens all the time.

http://juggo.net/gifs/media/super-retard.gif

I like Flowers more than anyone on the defense longer than 6 days, but in fairness, LOTS of guys have picked off Favre.

That being said, at the level he was playing last year, it is hard to imagine him not excelling in any scheme.

If he can produce in a Herm scheme he ought to be good to go in a real coach's scheme. Unless he is forced to guard Randy Moss with no help all day, he'll be fine.
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htismaqe
04-30-2009, 09:24 AM
Teams always throw rookie CB's who play like second year guys in their first season, and who pick off HOF-bound QB's for 92 yard pick sixes to the curb.

Happens all the time.

http://juggo.net/gifs/media/super-retard.gif

It does happen all the time. New regimes have "profiles" and if they're stupid, like Gunther for instance, they get rid of good players in favor of players with measurables that fit their mold.

We just have to hope that Pioli's "profile" emphasizes football skills over measurables.

Buehler445
04-30-2009, 09:34 AM
It does happen all the time. New regimes have "profiles" and if they're stupid, like Gunther for instance, they get rid of good players in favor of players with measurables that fit their mold.

We just have to hope that Pioli's "profile" emphasizes football skills over measurables.

I certainly hope so. I didn't even make the connection about this draft being mostly on measurables until you mentioned it. Hopefully these kids have a brain in their head and can be coached.

It could also be that that the focus of the scouts was on measurables and that may be why they are out of a job. Who knows. I would be interested in some of the conversations in the war room during the draft.
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Raised On Riots
04-30-2009, 09:35 AM
It does happen all the time. New regimes have "profiles" and if they're stupid, like Gunther for instance, they get rid of good players in favor of players with measurables that fit their mold.

We just have to hope that Pioli's "profile" emphasizes football skills over measurables.

Wouldn't that decision ultimately rest in Haley's hands? Flowers isn't a draft pick, he's a done deal with a signed contract.

Why am I even debating this? It's utterly ridiculous.

htismaqe
04-30-2009, 09:50 AM
Wouldn't that decision ultimately rest in Haley's hands? Flowers isn't a draft pick, he's a done deal with a signed contract.

Why am I even debating this? It's utterly ridiculous.

The draft is over. There's nothing else to talk about. ROFL

Raised On Riots
04-30-2009, 10:02 AM
The draft is over. There's nothing else to talk about. ROFL

There's FA.

Speaking of which; when are we going to address the issue of protection for Cassel?

You DO realize that Sackintosh or the rook will NOT be "getting it done", yes?

Demonpenz
04-30-2009, 10:03 AM
Flowers can tackle well. reminds me a lil of rod woodson, loves to cover, loves to tackle, loves football.

whoman69
04-30-2009, 10:03 AM
Compare the heights of the WRs in the league and the CBs. Its not even close. Taller players with good hands are almost always going to take the money and fame that WR position can give them. Speed is always going to be the biggest measurable for CBs.

Raised On Riots
04-30-2009, 10:07 AM
Flowers can tackle well. reminds me a lil of rod woodson, loves to cover, loves to tackle, loves football.

He showed Ferguson what time it was!

Jethopper
04-30-2009, 10:12 AM
I could definitely see that, but is he a good enough tackler?

Carr is an excellent tackler.

htismaqe
04-30-2009, 10:31 AM
There's FA.

Speaking of which; when are we going to address the issue of protection for Cassel?

You DO realize that Sackintosh or the rook will NOT be "getting it done", yes?

How do you know the rook won't be getting it done?

RedThat
04-30-2009, 10:42 AM
RT is an interesting position on this team.

I wonder what they're going to do there?

Im not a fan of McIntosh.

But there are some prospects there in Brown and Richardson. Do you take a risk, and chance it with these guys? And hope for the best that one of them pans out? Or do you simply sign a proven veteran in FA who can fill that void for a couple of seasons, not only to play but to be a good locker room presence and mentor for the younger guys?

Raised On Riots
04-30-2009, 10:44 AM
How do you know the rook won't be getting it done?

It's possible, but unlikely.

EyePod
04-30-2009, 10:46 AM
Wrong. He doesn't have shorts & t-shirt, timed track speed. He has game speed, quickness, physicality and stellar technique. He can play corner in any system for any team.

I really hope this is so. Especially because he had the experience (and excelled) in the easier Tampa 2, which should help with the transition. A lot of teams were wary of him in a non Tampa 2 defense, so it isn't wrong.

Here was Scout's Inc.:

35. Kansas City Chiefs (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=kan)
The pick: Brandon Flowers (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&id=12211), CB, Virginia Tech
What he brings: Flowers doesn't have elite size or top-end speed. Occasionally, he gets caught out of position trying to make a big play. However, he plays far bigger than his size indicates and faster than his 40 time suggest. He opens his hips very well and has the upper-body strength to deliver a violent punch. There's also a lot to like about his willingness to play the run.
How he fits: With the loss of Ty Law (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=3188), the Chiefs had to address the left corner spot opposite Patrick Surtain (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4303). Flowers is a physical player who plays bigger than his size indicates, which is a good fit in the Chiefs' defensive coverage schemes.

I think he'll have an easier time adjusting than Carr....

HemiEd
04-30-2009, 10:47 AM
Wrong. He doesn't have shorts & t-shirt, timed track speed. He has game speed, quickness, physicality and stellar technique. He can play corner in any system for any team.

It is a nice feeling, to have a cache of young talented CBs!

It wasn't too long ago they were desparate and gave up a 2nd for Surtain and signed an "over the hill" Law.


Hate giving Herm fucking Edwards any credit, but he is do some on this IMO.

Buehler445
04-30-2009, 12:10 PM
It is a nice feeling, to have a cache of young talented CBs!

It wasn't too long ago they were desparate and gave up a 2nd for Surtain and signed an "over the hill" Law.


Hate giving Herm fucking Edwards any credit, but he is do some on this IMO.

I will give Squirmin Herman credit for that. Leggitt isn't too horrible either. But while I'm giving him credit, I will stand on my desk and scream how much I don't want him near my team.