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petegz28
05-01-2009, 08:29 PM
Oh, so now we bring in Buck? Who suchs as a pinch hitter? Nice....

DeezNutz
05-01-2009, 08:29 PM
I'd rather he pitch tonight when we are losing, and maybe luck out with hard-hit balls right at fielders 6 times in a row.

Then there will be no temptation to use him tomorrow when we are clinging to a late 1-run lead.

If those are my two options, I agree.

But I'd welcome hearing a third.

petegz28
05-01-2009, 08:29 PM
Hey Buck..try swinging at a strike?

Delano
05-01-2009, 08:30 PM
If those are my two options, I agree.

But I'd welcome hearing a third.

Someone mentioned him as a fifth starter. I like that option.

DeezNutz
05-01-2009, 08:30 PM
Battled back. 2-2.

alnorth
05-01-2009, 08:31 PM
Oh, so now we bring in Buck? Who suchs as a pinch hitter? Nice....

what difference does it make hitting as a starter vs as a pinch hitter?

DeezNutz
05-01-2009, 08:31 PM
Someone mentioned him as a fifth starter. I like that option.

4321

LMAO

petegz28
05-01-2009, 08:31 PM
Hillman is just a mad scientist with his strategy this game...

chiefbowe82
05-01-2009, 08:31 PM
and theres 3 strike outs

Delano
05-01-2009, 08:32 PM
And Mijares does his best Joe Nathan impersonation as he walks off.

petegz28
05-01-2009, 08:32 PM
what difference does it make hitting as a starter vs as a pinch hitter?

They had this discussion today on Petro and I thnk it was determined that he hits better when he catches and sucks as a pinch hitter or DH.

irishjayhawk
05-01-2009, 08:32 PM
Even Buck couldn't save Barnyard Trey, tonight.

DeezNutz
05-01-2009, 08:33 PM
what difference does it make hitting as a starter vs as a pinch hitter?

Buck typically isn't a very strong hitter as a DH, though. He does his best when he's catching and consistently involved mentally.

Not like there was really a better option there. Jacobs would have been almost a sure SO, too.

alnorth
05-01-2009, 08:33 PM
They had this discussion today on Petro and I thnk it was determined that he hits better when he catches and sucks as a pinch hitter or DH.

Thats a pretty silly conclusion to reach.

Beerfund
05-01-2009, 08:33 PM
well good effort, royals. we'll get em tomorrow

DeezNutz
05-01-2009, 08:34 PM
Hillman is just a mad scientist with his strategy this game...

The sooner you accept that he's dumb as all fuck and doesn't know what he's doing, the better you'll feel.

Beerfund
05-01-2009, 08:34 PM
well good effort, royals. we'll get em tomorrow

even more appropriate now that Worthless is in.

Mr. Arrowhead
05-01-2009, 08:34 PM
Farnsworth will put this game out of reach

petegz28
05-01-2009, 08:34 PM
Thats a pretty silly conclusion to reach.

If you say so....

DeezNutz
05-01-2009, 08:34 PM
Thats a pretty silly conclusion to reach.

Why do you say that?

Some guys just don't have the mental makeup to be a DH.

chiefbowe82
05-01-2009, 08:36 PM
we will score atleast 2 in the 9th

alnorth
05-01-2009, 08:37 PM
Why do you say that?

Some guys just don't have the mental makeup to be a DH.

I say that because it makes no sense whatsoever. This "he hits better when he plays in this position" or "he hits better when he's a DH and doesnt have to think about fielding" nonsense is a lot of voodoo magic inspired by low sample sizes.

irishjayhawk
05-01-2009, 08:37 PM
Well, guys, I would take the heat for the loss for my pathetic gamethread, but I don't think I can top Barnyard Treynimal.

chiefbowe82
05-01-2009, 08:38 PM
agrees with alnorth

chiefbowe82
05-01-2009, 08:39 PM
farnsworth doin alright-you guys lost all hope in him?

Delano
05-01-2009, 08:39 PM
we will score atleast 2 in the 9th

LMAO

You's about to be fuckin' mowed down, brah.

irishjayhawk
05-01-2009, 08:39 PM
farnsworth doin alright-you guys lost all hope in him?

Down by two is different than being up by two.

DeezNutz
05-01-2009, 08:39 PM
I say that because it makes no sense whatsoever. This "he hits better when he plays in this position" or "he hits better when he's a DH and doesnt have to think about fielding" nonsense is a lot of voodoo magic inspired by low sample sizes.

Don't agree with this at all.

Theoretically it should be the same, but it's not. Being a high-quality DH is a very tough thing to do, and it takes a special type of player to be able to do it well consistently.

alnorth
05-01-2009, 08:42 PM
The sooner you accept that he's dumb as all **** and doesn't know what he's doing, the better you'll feel.

There are a lot of managers a whole hell of a lot worse than Trey. Hillman really isnt a bad manager, with the Soria fiasco explained.

Griping about the manager is a popular barroom pastime enjoyed by fans of probably at least 90% of the teams. The other 10% are stupid when they hit 5-game losing streaks. Aside from opening day (which he has now obviously learned from, see Farnsworth pitching today instead of the 9th yesterday), I havent seen anything that was laugh-out-loud stupid from him.

Fans tend to be vulnerable to negative reinforcement. Any good play is 100% credited to players, but any bad move is almost always blamed on the manager, whether fair or not, simply because it didnt work. After a while, you mentally accumulate all these "mistakes", and start to wonder "gee, he's been sucking a lot lately", all while not noticing any good moves that may have been made. Managers get no credit for making correct decisions, thats just expected, and sometimes they even get blamed for those when the right call doesnt work.

petegz28
05-01-2009, 08:42 PM
Don't agree with this at all.

Theoretically it should be the same, but it's not. Being a high-quality DH is a very tough thing to do, and it takes a special type of player to be able to do it well consistently.

I agree with you. Some guys can't just come off the bench and hit. Some can't be DH and produce. Their mind isn't the same

chiefbowe82
05-01-2009, 08:43 PM
joe nathan sucks and you better get that in your head real quick

alnorth
05-01-2009, 08:45 PM
Don't agree with this at all.

Theoretically it should be the same, but it's not. Being a high-quality DH is a very tough thing to do, and it takes a special type of player to be able to do it well consistently.

This reads incredibly silly to me, no offense. I know we cant take a time-machine, and turn A-Rod, Griffey, and Pujols into DH's, then replay the last couple decades to see what happens, but if you can hit, you can hit.

If anything, I might actually believe the opposite. IF fielding makes a difference to hitting (I dont think it does for the vast majority of players), I'd think being a DH would be EASIER than fielding a position and being expected to bat.

petegz28
05-01-2009, 08:46 PM
This reads incredibly silly to me, no offense. I know we cant take a time-machine, and turn A-Rod, Griffey, and Pujols into DH's, then replay the last couple decades to see what happens, but if you can hit, you can hit.

If anything, I might actually believe the opposite. IF fielding makes a difference to hitting (I dont think it does for the vast majority of players), I'd think being a DH would be EASIER than fielding a position and being expected to bat.

Not true. Sorry. You are eliminating the mental aspect of the game. Some guys can't get into their groove if they don't play. The same way some guys don't hit well if they are playing the field in an unfamiliar position.

Nzoner
05-01-2009, 08:46 PM
Well....we had the chance but Hillman decided to leave in Ponson..so ...now we are tied with everyone for 1st I guess

White Sox will actually have 1st to themselves if KC can't come back

alnorth
05-01-2009, 08:50 PM
Not true. Sorry. You are eliminating the mental aspect of the game. Some guys can't get into their groove if they don't play. The same way some guys don't hit well if they are playing the field in an unfamiliar position.

Fine, if you just want to ignore everything and arbitrarily say "your wrong, just because", then I guess we got nothing to argue about.

However, when you are a career DH, you dont have to focus on ANYTHING else, only hitting. More practice, more studying of pitchers, none of that time-wasting fielding drill nonsense, hitting is your 100% full-time job, and I'd expect the narrow specialist to be better at it than someone who has to concentrate on knowing, practicing, and refining every aspect of the game rather than just offense.

Rigodan
05-01-2009, 08:50 PM
I just got here saw the box score on espn. Why the hell did Ponson go back out for the 5th?

Delano
05-01-2009, 08:51 PM
This is Joe Nathan, for all y'all ignorant onez.

petegz28
05-01-2009, 08:53 PM
Thanks Hillman...I guess the 5 run shelling from Ponson wasn't enough for you, you had to run him out to give up 2 more...

petegz28
05-01-2009, 08:54 PM
Fine, if you just want to ignore everything and arbitrarily say "your wrong, just because", then I guess we got nothing to argue about.

However, when you are a career DH, you dont have to focus on ANYTHING else, only hitting. More practice, more studying of pitchers, none of that time-wasting fielding drill nonsense, hitting is your 100% full-time job, and I'd expect the narrow specialist to be better at it than someone who has to concentrate on knowing, practicing, and refining every aspect of the game rather than just offense.

Ok well back to the point....Buck is not a career DH.

Nzoner
05-01-2009, 08:54 PM
Fock I hate losing to these pricks,the Twinks are the team I hate most in the AL Central

petegz28
05-01-2009, 08:54 PM
I just got here saw the box score on espn. Why the hell did Ponson go back out for the 5th?

Cause our manager is a fuckhead

alnorth
05-01-2009, 08:54 PM
welp, look at it this way. If your #5 wins half of his games, your pretty damned good. We only need our #5 starter to win maybe 1/3 of his games. Of course, Ponson isnt even doing that much, but maybe our next #5 will when the end of May rolls around.

Delano
05-01-2009, 08:55 PM
Fock I hate losing to these pricks,the Twinks are the team I hate most in the AL Central

LMAO

alnorth
05-01-2009, 08:56 PM
Ok well back to the point....Buck is not a career DH.

because he should be a career catcher, and cant hit well enough to be a career DH. Its not because his expected performance as a DH is worse, its because we ought to find a better one. He's "good enough for a catcher", not "a good DH".

DeezNutz
05-01-2009, 08:57 PM
This reads incredibly silly to me, no offense. I know we cant take a time-machine, and turn A-Rod, Griffey, and Pujols into DH's, then replay the last couple decades to see what happens, but if you can hit, you can hit.

If anything, I might actually believe the opposite. IF fielding makes a difference to hitting (I dont think it does for the vast majority of players), I'd think being a DH would be EASIER than fielding a position and being expected to bat.

I know what you're saying, but the guys you've listed are also HOFers.

We're talking about a fringe MLer with Buck. It's just different because of the intense focus it places on the hitter and all he thinks about is the last AB, and how he manages his time between AB's becomes very important. Go down and take swings in the cage to stay loose? Stay on the bench to keep mentally in the game?

It's just a different kind of pressure. Some guys can handle it and others cannot.

Rigodan
05-01-2009, 08:57 PM
Damn. Twins pitchers combined for 120 pitches and 85 strikes... FUCk

alnorth
05-01-2009, 08:58 PM
Fock I hate losing to these pricks,the Twinks are the team I hate most in the AL Central

not me, I'm pretty indifferent to the Twins, Tigers, and Indians.

However, the White Sox can all go die in a fire.

Delano
05-01-2009, 08:58 PM
Damn. Twins pitchers combined for 120 pitches and 85 strikes... FUCk

Two strikes per ball is par for the course in Minnesota.

Delano
05-01-2009, 08:59 PM
not me, I'm pretty indifferent to the Twins, Tigers, and Indians.

However, the White Sox can all go die in a fire.

Yep. Same here except replace Twins with Royals.

I have no idea how someone can hate the Twins (at least since A.J. left).

Rigodan
05-01-2009, 09:00 PM
not me, I'm pretty indifferent to the Twins, Tigers, and Indians.

However, the White Sox can all go die in a fire.

I agree on the Sox. I hate those bastards

DeezNutz
05-01-2009, 09:00 PM
The Twins have actually been a model franchise.

Lose your top players but still keep going.

Jenson71
05-01-2009, 09:04 PM
I hate them all.

But most especially whoever most recently beat us.

I especially hate the Twins.

wild1
05-01-2009, 09:05 PM
Ponson is dutch for "designated for assignment"

alnorth
05-01-2009, 09:06 PM
I know a few Twins fans, they are pretty decent and I like how they run their team. When we beat them, its nothing personal, just business.

Every season I hope the entire starting rotation for the White Sox goes down with shoulder problems, their offense tanks, and every trade they made turns out to be a hilarious mistake. I hope the weather for every Chicago home game is a cold, wet, miserable loss and I hope the fans suffer through every long day of the season.

The Indians and Tigers? meh.

Nzoner
05-01-2009, 09:07 PM
Yep. Same here except replace Twins with Royals.

I have no idea how someone can hate the Twins (at least since A.J. left).

Someone can hate the Twins because someone lived up in a shithole called Coon Rapids Minnesota and minded his own business being a Royals and Chiefs fan but had numerous dickheads who didn't stop at good natured ribbing.In fact one time someone was having a smoke at the Metrodome and some dipshit threatened to take someone's Chiefs sweatshirt and shove it up someone's ass.

No offense to you personally but someone lived there and didn't have good experiences so someone doesn't care if someone ever visits that godforsaken state again and their sports teams can kiss the Chiefs and Royals tattoos on someone's ass.

Delano
05-01-2009, 09:10 PM
Someone can hate the Twins because someone lived up in a shithole called Coon Rapids Minnesota and minded his own business being a Royals and Chiefs fan but had numerous dickheads who didn't stop at good natured ribbing.In fact one time someone was having a smoke at the Metrodome and some dipshit threatened to take someone's Chiefs sweatshirt and shove it up someone's ass.

No offense to you personally but someone lived there and didn't have good experiences so someone doesn't care if someone ever visits that godforsaken state again and their sports teams can kiss the Chiefs and Royals tattoos on someone's ass.

Well, I guess there is that. Good reason.

Beerfund
05-01-2009, 09:12 PM
Ponson is dutch

i thought he was mexican

KChiefs1
05-01-2009, 09:36 PM
After listening to Hillman's post-game news conference I have hope that this is the last game Ponson starts....Luke Hochevar anyone?

DeezNutz
05-01-2009, 09:37 PM
After listening to Hillman's post-game news conference I have hope that this is the last game Ponson starts....Luke Hochevar anyone?

What did he say? Did he explain sending Ponson back out for the 5th?

KChiefs1
05-01-2009, 09:40 PM
What did he say? Did he explain sending Ponson back out for the 5th?

basically said that he thought Ponson was trying too hard & that he loves his work ethic but maybe they need to try something new at this time but he would sit down with Dayton to see what kinda plan they have for the future. He said he loves Ponson's work ethic & he loves the presence he brings to the clubhouse but they may need to look at other options right now.

He said it's not good when a sinkerballer is thrower too hard or trying too hard.

I didn't hear him say anything about the 5th inning.

beavis
05-01-2009, 09:43 PM
Thanks Hillman...I guess the 5 run shelling from Ponson wasn't enough for you, you had to run him out to give up 2 more...
.

Nzoner
05-01-2009, 09:43 PM
basically said that he thought Ponson was trying too hard & that he loves his work ethic but maybe they need to try something new at this time but he would sit down with Dayton to see what kinda plan they have for the future. He said he loves Ponson's work ethic & he loves the presence he brings to the clubhouse but they may need to look at other options right now.

I didn't hear him say anything about the 5th inning.

All I know is this division is going to be a clusterfock this season and they need to try something new and quick or else these stupid decisions are going to come back and haunt the team in September.

KChiefs1
05-01-2009, 10:14 PM
Keeping Hochever in the minors until May 4th allows us to control his rights for an extra year, so he needed to start the season there...Ponson's next scheduled start is May 6th....:hmmm:

thurman merman
05-02-2009, 12:22 AM
Ponson is dutch for "designated for assignment"

we can only hope.

i don't know why people in the royals organization were the only people in the universe who thought that turd had a chance. although he has done slightly better than my preseason prediction (only a 7.16 ERA instead of 9.90), it is still absolutely unfathomable that he is in the major leagues while luke hochevar is dominating in AAA.

alnorth
05-02-2009, 01:06 AM
maybe just one more start, but I would expect Hochevar to come up in May.

alnorth
05-02-2009, 01:13 AM
Here's a new little toy I found.

http://www.fangraphs.com/lgraphs/290501109_Royals_Twins_125421146_lbig.png

The folks at www.fangraphs.com have started putting together these game graphs for every game. This incorporates some very recent research by some of the top saber guys who wrote a book on how to figure out what percent chance each team has to win given the score, situation, and batter/pitcher. The graph is probably self-explanatory, we were favored to win from the mid 3rd to mid 4th inning, but after that it was the Twins game to lose.

The bottom bars represent how "important" each at-bat was before the hitter did whatever they did. Apparently the computer thought that the most important at-bat of the entire game was Slowey vs Guillen in the 5th, Royals down 3-5 with runners at 2nd and 3rd. The resulting play (2 RBI single) was also one of the biggest win% swings of the game, moving from 73.4% Twins to 53.6% Twins. (even though we were tied, I guess the computer didnt like Ponson either).

Going into the top of the 9th down 2 runs, the computer only gave the Royals a 7.8% chance of beating Joe Nathan.

alnorth
05-02-2009, 01:26 AM
Here's another interesting graph of what looks like a wild game.

http://www.fangraphs.com/lgraphs/290501110_Angels_Yankees_125416556_lbig.png

At one point in the 8th inning (down 4-9, 1 out bases empty, Cano batting) the computer only gave the Yankees a 1.4% chance of winning. Going into the bottom of the 9th down only 1 run, the computer gave the Yankees a 20.9% chance of beating the Angels closer.

alnorth
05-02-2009, 01:52 AM
here's another great one from the recent 11-3 blowout of the Blue Jays.

http://www.fangraphs.com/tgraphs/20090429_BlueJays_Royals_0.png

It was stuck at somewhere between 99.7% and 99.9% Royals for a few innings, but in the 9th when Cruz came in to pitch, the computer actually gave it up and gave the Royals a 100% chance of winning. (or it was a rounding error like 99.99%)

KC_Connection
05-02-2009, 05:08 AM
These graphs have actually been around for a while. The WPA% is coming from a database of all of the major league games over the last 30 years or something. Basically, when it reaches 100% at any point in the game (let's say a team has a 10 run lead with 2 innings to go), that means that no team in the history of the database has ever come back from that kind of deficit.

These sites can explain it better than me:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-one-about-win-probability/

http://winexp.walkoffbalk.com/expectancy/search

tomahawk kid
05-02-2009, 06:06 AM
Thanks Hillman...I guess the 5 run shelling from Ponson wasn't enough for you, you had to run him out to give up 2 more...

Don't you get it?

He's got to save those arms for AUGUST, when we're 10 games out.

I really wish we had a manager. Friar F#ck couldn't find his ass with both hands.

tomahawk kid
05-02-2009, 06:11 AM
All I know is this division is going to be a clusterfock this season and they need to try something new and quick or else these stupid decisions are going to come back and haunt the team in September.

If we had a competent manager, we'd have a 4-5 game lead in the division right now.

PHOG
05-02-2009, 09:17 AM
I believe Hochevar is scheduled to start today(AAA) IIRC, so it should be an indicator of their plans to see how many innings he goes...(if he is indeed starting today)

DeezNutz
05-02-2009, 09:19 AM
I believe Hochevar is scheduled to start today(AAA) IIRC, so it should be an indicator of their plans to see how many innings he goes...(if he is indeed starting today)

He was scheduled to start last night, but the game was postponed.

PHOG
05-02-2009, 09:59 PM
He was scheduled to start last night, but the game was postponed.

So...did he pitch tonight?

DeezNutz
05-02-2009, 10:00 PM
So...did he pitch tonight?

No.

PHOG
05-02-2009, 10:05 PM
No.

See ya Sidney, hellooooo LUKE!

thurman merman
05-02-2009, 11:13 PM
So...did he pitch tonight?

7 innings, 2 hits, 0 runs. hochevar now 5-0 with a 1.13 ERA. his time has come.

DeezNutz
05-02-2009, 11:21 PM
7 innings, 2 hits, 0 runs. hochevar now 5-0 with a 1.13 ERA. his time has come.

My apologies.

Didn't see the notes that it was a DH on the Omaha Royals site. My bad.

thurman merman
05-02-2009, 11:34 PM
My apologies.

Didn't see the notes that it was a DH on the Omaha Royals site. My bad.

it was a bit confusing. they played a double header and he pitched in the first game.

Demonpenz
05-03-2009, 12:12 AM
jeez i thought we were going to loose that game for sure. Turned the game off only to find out we won. nice job kc

thurman merman
05-03-2009, 07:30 PM
Turned the game off only to find out we won.

haha nice job. did you do that today too?

ChiTown
05-03-2009, 07:46 PM
7 innings, 2 hits, 0 runs. hochevar now 5-0 with a 1.13 ERA. his time has come.

I think he'll be pitching in the 4 game series at the K against Baltimore. Just a hunch.........