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OmahaChief
07-06-2009, 02:33 PM
I don't think anyone is upset. It's just laughable that we're swapping one sack of shit for another. If some overall frustration with this joke of an organization bubbles over b/c of these moves, that's not at all surprising, IMO.

At least this sack of shit might not stink as bad as the other sacks of shit we have! :D

Sure-Oz
07-06-2009, 02:34 PM
Actually there should be 2 roster moves...one because of this and Buck comes back to the roster today I believe, so one for him. TPJ and Hernandez should go. No way to I send B. Pena down right now.

I believe Hulett was sent down for Buck...

thurman merman
07-06-2009, 02:42 PM
I believe Hulett was sent down for Buck...

correct, according to royals.com

petegz28
07-06-2009, 02:44 PM
I believe Hulett was sent down for Buck...

Fuck, I forgot all about that guy.

thurman merman
07-06-2009, 02:54 PM
The Cubs designated Freel for assignment Thursday after a disappointing 14-game tenure with the club. They traded Joey Gathright for Freel two months ago.

ROFL

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

DeezNutz
07-06-2009, 02:56 PM
At least this sack of shit might not stink as bad as the other sacks of shit we have! :D

ROFL

I have this mental picture of Moore sampling various spoonfuls of dog shit.

Sure-Oz
07-06-2009, 04:37 PM
Trey seems to be salivating that we got Freel and the 'options' we have now with him here...

DeezNutz
07-06-2009, 04:55 PM
Trey seems to be salivating that we got Freel and the 'options' we have now with him here...

Are you shitting me?

This ball of shit can be manipulated like clay! /TE/

Demonpenz
07-06-2009, 05:10 PM
trey just called him dr. freelgood

SPATCH
07-06-2009, 05:13 PM
trey just called him dr. freelgood

dude. this changes everything.

nevermind what i said earlier. great trade.

DeezNutz
07-06-2009, 05:13 PM
trey just called him dr. freelgood

I don't even freel like joking about this acquisition.

Fish
07-06-2009, 05:14 PM
dude. this changes everything.

nevermind what i said earlier. great trade.

Let's Go:Royals:!!

petegz28
07-06-2009, 05:16 PM
trey just called him dr. freelgood

Seriously?

Sure-Oz
07-07-2009, 02:07 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/1310772.html

Royals designate Hernandez for assignment

DETROIT | Utility infielder Luis Hernandez was the odd man out Tuesday when the Royals needed to clear roster space for Ryan Freel.

Hernandez, 25, was designated for assignment prior to Tuesday’s game.

The Royals acquired Freel, 33, in a Monday trade from the Chicago Cubs along with cash for a player to be named later. That player, in accordance with baseball rules, will be a player not currently on the 40-man roster.

Hernandez, a switch-hitter, batted .204 with 10 hits in 49 at-bats in 22 games after arriving May 3 from Class AAA Omaha. He joined the Royals in the off-season by agreeing to a minor-league contract.

The Royals, effectively, chose to keep Tony Peña over Hernandez since adding Freel, a utilityman, made one of the two expendable. Both players are out of options. Peña carried an .091 average into Tuesday’s game but is generally viewed as the better defensive player.

The decision to designate Hernandez for assignment provides the Royals with 10 days to reach a resolution. He is likely to be sent through waivers, which permits any club to claim his contract for no compensation.

If Hernandez goes unclaimed, the Royals can release him or trade him. He could also choose to accept a minor-league assignment.

IMO, this is a load of horseshit...there is absolutely no reason that Pena should be on the roster, and atleast hernandez can play 2b, 3b and SS and hit atleast .200 also being 25 years old. I know he has probably no future as a starter but he deserves a spot more than Pena. This management really baffles me why they keep a guy batting .050 and has more errors than hits over someone that is younger and can play more positions to help the team, oh and is a switch hitter.

ChiTown
07-07-2009, 02:12 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/1310772.html

Royals designate Hernandez for assignment

DETROIT | Utility infielder Luis Hernandez was the odd man out Tuesday when the Royals needed to clear roster space for Ryan Freel.

Hernandez, 25, was designated for assignment prior to Tuesday’s game.

The Royals acquired Freel, 33, in a Monday trade from the Chicago Cubs along with cash for a player to be named later. That player, in accordance with baseball rules, will be a player not currently on the 40-man roster.

Hernandez, a switch-hitter, batted .204 with 10 hits in 49 at-bats in 22 games after arriving May 3 from Class AAA Omaha. He joined the Royals in the off-season by agreeing to a minor-league contract.

The Royals, effectively, chose to keep Tony Peña over Hernandez since adding Freel, a utilityman, made one of the two expendable. Both players are out of options. Peña carried an .091 average into Tuesday’s game but is generally viewed as the better defensive player.

The decision to designate Hernandez for assignment provides the Royals with 10 days to reach a resolution. He is likely to be sent through waivers, which permits any club to claim his contract for no compensation.

If Hernandez goes unclaimed, the Royals can release him or trade him. He could also choose to accept a minor-league assignment.

IMO, this is a load of horseshit...there is absolutely no reason that Pena should be on the roster, and atleast hernandez can play 2b, 3b and SS and hit atleast .200 also being 25 years old. I know he has probably no future as a starter but he deserves a spot more than Pena. This management really baffles me why they keep a guy batting .050 and has more errors than hits over someone that is younger and can play more positions to help the team, oh and is a switch hitter.

:spock:

lol, this makes a lot of Royals sense...

OmahaChief
07-07-2009, 02:21 PM
:spock:

lol, this makes a lot of Royals sense...

What the hell has Pena got on Dayton? He must have some photos or something to keep his sorry ass in KC. I would have kept Hernandez at least he has a chance to get a hit.

Sure-Oz
07-07-2009, 02:21 PM
:spock:

lol, this makes a lot of Royals sense...

I really want to know wtf is so damn special about Pena really...

I remember dayton saying he would be a potential Gold Glove SS....whatever, dude is 28 and has no business in the majors, period. No team will pick him up if he is DFA, guaranteed.

DeezNutz
07-07-2009, 02:24 PM
What the hell has Pena got on Dayton?

Our overhyped GM should be forced to answer this question.

doomy3
07-07-2009, 02:24 PM
:spock:

lol, this makes a lot of Royals sense...

What the hell has Pena got on Dayton? He must have some photos or something to keep his sorry ass in KC. I would have kept Hernandez at least he has a chance to get a hit.

I really want to know wtf is so damn special about Pena really...

I remember dayton saying he would be a potential Gold Glove SS....whatever, dude is 28 and has no business in the majors, period. No team will pick him up if he is DFA, guaranteed.


They could seriously flip a coin between the two of them. No use being upset about Pena over Hernandez. They both suck.

And odds are that no one will pick up Hernandez either.

Sure-Oz
07-07-2009, 02:34 PM
They could seriously flip a coin between the two of them. No use being upset about Pena over Hernandez. They both suck.

And odds are that no one will pick up Hernandez either.

I'm not necessarily poed that we cut hernandez, but atleast the guy played more than one position and had some sort of use as depth. Pena jr isn't depth for this team, he can't field or hit. I'm just suprised that Pena has lasted this long, esp being a backup SS only position and having a spot.

ChiTown
07-07-2009, 02:35 PM
I'm not necessarily poed that we cut hernandez, but atleast the guy played more than one position and had some sort of use as depth. Pena jr isn't depth for this team, he can't field or hit. I'm just suprised that Pena has lasted this long, esp being a backup SS only position and having a spot.

+1

Sure-Oz
07-07-2009, 02:36 PM
Our overhyped GM should be forced to answer this question.

No one ever really asks the question but every radio guy agrees that pena jr should not be on the team, or any organization for that matter. Hell he should be a T-Bones player at best.

DeezNutz
07-07-2009, 02:40 PM
They could seriously flip a coin between the two of them. No use being upset about Pena over Hernandez. They both suck.

And odds are that no one will pick up Hernandez either.

I only differentiate them by the fact that Pena has sucked in the ML for a bit longer. Why he has tenure is beyond me.

Sure-Oz
07-07-2009, 02:45 PM
I only differentiate them by the fact that Pena has sucked in the ML for a bit longer. Why he has tenure is beyond me.

he makes rey sanchez's pathetic offense look like arod

I seriously could out hit the guy in 5 ab's

ChiTown
07-07-2009, 02:47 PM
No one ever really asks the question but every radio guy agrees that pena jr should not be on the team, or any organization for that matter. Hell he should be a T-Bones player at best.

On defense alone, Hernandez should have stayed over Pena. Simple as that

Sure-Oz
07-07-2009, 02:49 PM
On defense alone, Hernandez should have stayed over Pena. Simple as that

The radio guys keep talking about how nice of a guy he is, i wonder if tony pena sr threatened to sleep with daytons wife if he didn't keep JR

ChiTown
07-07-2009, 02:50 PM
The radio guys keep talking about how nice of a guy he is, i wonder if tony pena sr threatened to sleep with daytons wife if he didn't keep JR

He must have a little Joe Horn in him.........

DeezNutz
07-07-2009, 02:53 PM
he makes rey sanchez's pathetic offense look like arod

I seriously could out hit the guy in 5 ab's

No shit, on both accounts.

Sometimes I really, really hate this fucking franchise.

Sure-Oz
07-07-2009, 03:03 PM
No shit, on both accounts.

Sometimes I really, really hate this ****ing franchise.

The trade deadline and Gordon's return is all i got left for this year....dayton better do something damnit

petegz28
07-07-2009, 03:08 PM
So we cut a guy who can bat #9 and at least put a ball in play and lay down a bunt to keep a guy who can....who can......who can.......

Demonpenz
07-07-2009, 03:13 PM
pena needs to be sent down and get into winter ball as a pitcher

Sure-Oz
07-07-2009, 03:37 PM
I'm sure if that was an option they would've done it, he'll be our closer if we trade soria

Sure-Oz
07-07-2009, 08:41 PM
Trey's reasoning for Pena not being DFA and Hernandez let go....

"Both are about equal defensively but Tony Pena has a little better lateral range" LMAO Seriously trey, you're a great salesman

petegz28
07-07-2009, 08:42 PM
Trey's reasoning for Pena not being DFA and Hernandez let go....

"Both are about equal defensively but Tony Pena has a little better lateral movement" LMAO Seriously trey, you're a great salesman

I didn't even listen tot he post game... I want to know however, why Maier sat on the bench and Pena came in?

Sure-Oz
07-07-2009, 08:44 PM
I didn't even listen tot he post game... I want to know however, why Maier sat on the bench and Pena came in?

610sports.com click listen...

greg schaum and robert something or other do a good post game

they are pretty critical on everything as needed

petegz28
07-07-2009, 08:47 PM
610sports.com click listen...

greg schaum and robert something or other do a good post game

they are pretty critical on everything as needed

I usually listen to 810 after the game....just didn't feel like it tonight

Sure-Oz
07-07-2009, 08:53 PM
I didn't even listen tot he post game... I want to know however, why Maier sat on the bench and Pena came in?

Apparently Maier was still banged up from the collision yesterday

petegz28
07-07-2009, 09:57 PM
Apparently Maier was still banged up from the collision yesterday

So he could finish the game yesterday but now he was banged up? Hillman is a fuckhead.

DeezNutz
07-07-2009, 10:11 PM
Have we been contracted yet? Please?

Mecca
07-07-2009, 10:23 PM
Moore keeps Pena because he traded for him...it's hard to admit you made a mistake.

Sure-Oz
07-07-2009, 11:43 PM
Have we been contracted yet? Please?

What really sucks is TPJ makes 475k a year....i could only dream of making that much esp at his age, for absolutely doing jack shit

OmahaChief
07-08-2009, 07:51 AM
I like the fire in Freel already after reading this quote this morning...

“That was a big part of the game,” Freel said, “and I missed it. It’s
probably one I should have had. I’ll probably go home tonight and kick
something.”

That was when he was asked about his misplay of a ball in center that ended up costing the Royals a run.

I like the fact this guy actually says stuff like that. Shows he cares to me. DDJ would make up some lame excuse and then smile. I like guys who are pissed when they make mistakes. Not sure if he will be worth a shit but I like the fire so far.

Demonpenz
07-08-2009, 10:29 AM
remember last year when pena was hitting .051 and everyone laughed because in september there was going to be tony Pena Jr bobble head doll, it was soo funny because he was obvouisly not going to be in the majors...right? Surely a person hitting that badly can't stick with a major league team right?.........he is still here

DeezNutz
07-08-2009, 10:46 AM
remember last year when pena was hitting .051 and everyone laughed because in september there was going to be tony Pena Jr bobble head doll, it was soo funny because he was obvouisly not going to be in the majors...right? Surely a person hitting that badly can't stick with a major league team right?.........he is still here

Between Pena's continued presence on the roster, last year's off-season acquisitions, and the hiring of Trey Hillman, I'm having a very difficult time not starting the Fire Dayton Moore thread.

Thus far, all the evidence is that he's a well below-average GM. Perhaps the last couple of drafts will quell these thoughts, but I'm not going to praise his first-round selections (who are under-performing in A ball, by the way). These weren't brilliant picks; they were sensible ones that any GM equipped with the proper funds would have thought about doing.

OmahaChief
07-08-2009, 10:49 AM
Between Pena's continued presence on the roster, last year's off-season acquisitions, and the hiring of Trey Hillman, I'm having a very difficult time not starting the Fire Dayton Moore thread.

Thus far, all the evidence is that he's a well below-average GM. Perhaps the last couple of drafts will quell these thoughts, but I'm not going to praise his first-round selections (who are under-performing in A ball, by the way). These weren't brilliant picks; they were sensible ones that any GM equipped with the proper funds would have thought about doing.

I too am not solidly behind Moore anymore. He seemed to bring live into the team but now I am not so sure.

As for our guys underperforming in A Ball. Keep in mind that Moose is in a terrible hitters park, that does not make up for his Strike out Ratio but that league is known for it's tough pitching and Hosmer is also in a pitchers league for the most part.

Demonpenz
07-08-2009, 10:54 AM
gathright, Coco Crisp, Jacobs, Pena trades have not worked out

DeezNutz
07-08-2009, 10:59 AM
I too am not solidly behind Moore anymore. He seemed to bring live into the team but now I am not so sure.

As for our guys underperforming in A Ball. Keep in mind that Moose is in a terrible hitters park, that does not make up for his Strike out Ratio but that league is known for it's tough pitching and Hosmer is also in a pitchers league for the most part.

I was excited about the Moore hire simply because it signaled that Glass was willing to actually try to win, something he hadn't done to that point. I honestly had limited knowledge about Moore's baseball IQ, and some had pointed out that the Braves system wasn't exactly stocked when he took the job with KC.

Glass needs to continue to spend money, and even more of it, and Moore needs to prove that he has the tools himself to do the job.

What's his biggest accomplishment? Trading a felon for Brian Bannister? That's pretty much full of win. Soria? Also full of win. Re-signing Greinke? No win. Any GM with half a fucking brain and the necessary resources would have inked this kid to an extension.

petegz28
07-08-2009, 12:09 PM
gathright, Coco Crisp, Jacobs, Pena trades have not worked out

Crisp was until he got hurt. The stats showed that. Pena was supposed to be a stop-gap that has now turned into a long-term solution, for some idiotic reason. Jacobs.....bust...Gathright...bust but understood the trade for both

DeezNutz
07-08-2009, 12:11 PM
Crisp was until he got hurt. The stats showed that. Pena was supposed to be a stop-gap that has now turned into a long-term solution, for some idiotic reason. Jacobs.....bust...Gathright...bust but understood the trade for both

History suggested that injury was a strong likelihood with Crisp.

Let's add two of the largest Moore fuck ups to the list: the signings of Guillen and Farnsworth.

Both enormous mistakes.

petegz28
07-08-2009, 01:05 PM
History suggested that injury was a strong likelihood with Crisp.

Let's add two of the largest Moore **** ups to the list: the signings of Guillen and Farnsworth.

Both enormous mistakes.

Fransworth yes....Guillen no. Overpaid but served the purpose much like Meche did. I know Ia m in the minority but Guillen was not a bad move.

DeezNutz
07-08-2009, 01:06 PM
Fransworth yes....Guillen no. Overpaid but served the purpose much like Meche did. I know Ia m in the minority but Guillen was not a bad move.

What purpose did it serve?

He's in the 2nd year and is below replacement value. Comparing Guillen and Meche is a huge insult to the latter.

OmahaChief
07-08-2009, 01:40 PM
I was excited about the Moore hire simply because it signaled that Glass was willing to actually try to win, something he hadn't done to that point. I honestly had limited knowledge about Moore's baseball IQ, and some had pointed out that the Braves system wasn't exactly stocked when he took the job with KC.

Glass needs to continue to spend money, and even more of it, and Moore needs to prove that he has the tools himself to do the job.

What's his biggest accomplishment? Trading a felon for Brian Bannister? That's pretty much full of win. Soria? Also full of win. Re-signing Greinke? No win. Any GM with half a ****ing brain and the necessary resources would have inked this kid to an extension.

On the Greinke issue, getting him to sign for the money he did was a win in my opinion. Other far crappier pitchers signed for more per year than Zack did so we did get a decent value there.

DeezNutz
07-08-2009, 01:43 PM
On the Greinke issue, getting him to sign for the money he did was a win in my opinion. Other far crappier pitchers signed for more per year than Zack did so we did get a decent value there.

Kazmir pretty much set the market price, though. That said, I don't dispute that fact that we got great value for an ace. I just don't think Dayton did anything special to accomplish this.

petegz28
07-08-2009, 01:58 PM
What purpose did it serve?

He's in the 2nd year and is below replacement value. Comparing Guillen and Meche is a huge insult to the latter.

He led us in HR's and RBI's last year...if I am not mistaken...

Was he a legit #4 like we portrayed? No. Is he underperforming this year? Yea. I still say he served the purpose of what Moore was trying to to do. We overpaid for him for the same reason we overpaid for Meche. Or at least I like to think that. But with what we paid Farnsy and HoRam I am wondering if Moore just overpays? Like I said, I know I am in the minority.

Sure-Oz
07-08-2009, 01:58 PM
In other news....worth trying to pick up?

per rotoworld and mlbtraderumors.com

Blue Jays Release B.J. Ryan
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [July 8 at 2:44pm CST]
The Blue Jays have released B.J. Ryan, according to MLB.com's Jordan Bastian. The 33-year-old lefty signed a five year $47MM deal with the Jays before the 2006 season that was, at the time, the largest deal ever for a reliever. The contract expires after 2010, but the Jays still owe Ryan about $15MM.

Ryan dominated in 2006, striking out more than four times as many as he walked and allowing 30 fewer hits than innings pitched. However, he's been a major disappointment since missing 2007 with Tommy John surgery. He was effective last year, but has struggled in 2009, walking 7.4 batters per nine with a career-low strikeout rate and more hits allowed than innings


and

Dana Eveland-S- Athletics Jul. 8 - 9:01 am et

A's designated LHP Dana Eveland for assignment.

Eveland gave up four runs on six hits and three walks in 2 2/3 innings during a spot start Tuesday night. He was a curious choice to fill in for the bereaved Dallas Braden because he was out of options and had a 7.40 earned-run average during his last trip through the bigs. He should draw some attention from other organizations.

He's only 25 years old and had a 3.49 era in AAA this year and is a left handed starter...he had a 4.34 era last year and 9 wins.

Sure-Oz
07-08-2009, 02:14 PM
Nevermind on eveland, it seems as if he is on 'optional waivers' which means the A's can keep him. He is rumored to be the PTBNL in the Hairston deal....

ChiTown
07-08-2009, 02:19 PM
He led us in HR's and RBI's last year...if I am not mistaken...



and.................we have NOTHING to show for it. NADA

Sure-Oz
07-08-2009, 02:21 PM
He led us in HR's and RBI's last year...if I am not mistaken...

Was he a legit #4 like we portrayed? No. Is he underperforming this year? Yea. I still say he served the purpose of what Moore was trying to to do. We overpaid for him for the same reason we overpaid for Meche. Or at least I like to think that. But with what we paid Farnsy and HoRam I am wondering if Moore just overpays? Like I said, I know I am in the minority.

he was the 3rd option after Hunter and Jones signed elsewhere....i really wish we didn't get tied down to such an ugly contract for a 1 year wonder who really wasn't all that.

His #'s will get worse and he's virtually untradeable being an expensive DH only with no power.

DeezNutz
07-08-2009, 02:22 PM
He led us in HR's and RBI's last year...if I am not mistaken...

Was he a legit #4 like we portrayed? No. Is he underperforming this year? Yea. I still say he served the purpose of what Moore was trying to to do. We overpaid for him for the same reason we overpaid for Meche. Or at least I like to think that. But with what we paid Farnsy and HoRam I am wondering if Moore just overpays? Like I said, I know I am in the minority.

If he were a consistent contributor, I'd agree. Meche, for example, has been very solid for 2.5 years. If he'd only been good for one year, I'd label him a huge mistake, too.

And Guillen's numbers last year, even if they were toward the top, were still connected to the overall pile of shit. In other words, he wasn't a turd that fell out of the dog's ass later, away from the larger pile.

Demonpenz
07-08-2009, 02:26 PM
Guillen is an alright 6th or 7th hitter. his bat speed has lost some luster. the only good thing is when it gets hot out he is bound to give a fan a swirly in the fountans or kick the shit out of another Dominican player he hates.

Sure-Oz
07-08-2009, 02:28 PM
If he were a consistent contributor, I'd agree. Meche, for example, has been very solid for 2.5 years. If he'd only been good for one year, I'd label him a huge mistake, too.

And Guillen's numbers last year, even if they were toward the top, were still connected to the overall pile of shit. In other words, he wasn't a turd that fell out of the dog's ass later, away from the larger pile.

his #'s from last year would be worse if he didn't have that 2 or 3 week rbi tear

DeezNutz
07-08-2009, 02:29 PM
Guillen is an alright 6th or 7th hitter. his bat speed has lost some luster. the only good thing is when it gets hot out he is bound to give a fan a swirly in the fountans or kick the shit out of another Dominican player he hates.

I'm fine with having Guillen in the lineup. Doesn't bother me at all. It does, however, bother me that a sub-par player is our highest paid guy. For the money, it's a ****ing complete travesty.

Begs the question, so what should we have done? Couldn't get Hunter or Jones (thank you). So sign NO ONE. Save the money and throw a ****ing shit ton at a guy like Tex.

He's getting 22.5 per from NY. Would he have come here for 25? 26? Try.

petegz28
07-08-2009, 02:30 PM
If he were a consistent contributor, I'd agree. Meche, for example, has been very solid for 2.5 years. If he'd only been good for one year, I'd label him a huge mistake, too.

And Guillen's numbers last year, even if they were toward the top, were still connected to the overall pile of shit. In other words, he wasn't a turd that fell out of the dog's ass later, away from the larger pile.

Meche stunk the 1st half of last year.

Sure-Oz
07-08-2009, 02:32 PM
Meche stunk the 1st half of last year.

Meche>Guillen

period...

He isn't going to get much better, he can't even stay healthy and looks like half of what he was last year.

DeezNutz
07-08-2009, 02:34 PM
Meche stunk the 1st half of last year.

He had 9 quality starts out of 19 total starts.

Great? Nope. Considering the shit defense we had and have, though, I'd say that number isn't too damn bad.

Again, linking Meche and Guillen is a fucking joke. The two aren't comparable on any level. One has performed and one hasn't.

petegz28
07-08-2009, 02:39 PM
He had 9 quality starts out of 19 total starts.

Great? Nope. Considering the shit defense we had and have, though, I'd say that number isn't too damn bad.

Again, linking Meche and Guillen is a ****ing joke. The two aren't comparable on any level. One has performed and one hasn't.

I put that "quality start" stat right up there with the mentality that you only use your closer in the 9th. It's worthless.

Reaper16
07-08-2009, 02:39 PM
I put that "quality start" stat right up there with the mentality that you only use your closer in the 9th. It's worthless.
I'm sorry, I don't follow this.

Sure-Oz
07-08-2009, 02:40 PM
I put that "quality start" stat right up there with the mentality that you only use your closer in the 9th. It's worthless.

How is a quality start worthless? 6-7 inn giving up 2 or 3 runs? helps the pen big time having quality starts...keeping the team in the game.

DeezNutz
07-08-2009, 02:42 PM
I put that "quality start" stat right up there with the mentality that you only use your closer in the 9th. It's worthless.

Ok. I think it's too easy to register a "quality start," but I'm providing some numbers to challenge your assertion that he stunk. The evidence doesn't support your charge. Too easy or not, the dude consistently put the team in a position to win, and this is all that really counts.

How are you going to prove your claim, then?

Sure-Oz
07-08-2009, 02:43 PM
Ok. I think it's too easy to register a "quality start," but I'm providing some numbers to challenge your assertion that he stunk. The evidence doesn't support your charge. Too easy or not, the dude consistently put the team in a position to win, and this is all that really counts.

How are you going to prove your claim, then?

Butler is this year's guillen, we need to pay him $12-15 mill a year now before it's too late!

SPchief
07-08-2009, 02:45 PM
I put that "quality start" stat right up there with the mentality that you only use your closer in the 9th. It's worthless.

Absolutely incorrect

petegz28
07-08-2009, 04:16 PM
Ok. I think it's too easy to register a "quality start," but I'm providing some numbers to challenge your assertion that he stunk. The evidence doesn't support your charge. Too easy or not, the dude consistently put the team in a position to win, and this is all that really counts.

How are you going to prove your claim, then?

I think he stunk. You don't have to agree with me, but he stunk it up the 1st half of the season.

petegz28
07-08-2009, 04:17 PM
Absolutely incorrect

How so?

petegz28
07-08-2009, 04:19 PM
How is a quality start worthless? 6-7 inn giving up 2 or 3 runs? helps the pen big time having quality starts...keeping the team in the game.

Cause I think it is a boneheaded stat. Call me old school. Pitching i6-7 innings and allowing few runs is the pitchers job. To start making a stat for 6 innings worth of work just is hooey, imo. It feeds into this whole 5 pitchers per game mentality and I don't like it. Sorry. That's just me.

ChiTown
07-09-2009, 07:56 AM
Wednesday, July 8, 2009
Moving On.

Before we move on from last week’s drama – and believe me, I want to move on – I think it’s only fair to conduct a final post-mortem. I spent much of the weekend replaying what happened and trying to figure out if and how I could have handled things better. I wrote last week that “The defining hallmark of good organizations is that they are more critical of themselves than any outsider would be.” Well, that doesn’t just apply to organizations. I neither wanted nor anticipated that the situation would mushroom to the size that it did, and if I didn’t engage in some self-reflecton to see how this could have been avoided, I’d be a hypocrite. I don’t want to be a hypocrite.

I think Sam Mellinger’s take on the situation was spot-on, and that includes his criticisms of me: “Rany can write whatever he wants on his blog. But he changed his situation when he took on the radio show, and if he wants to be taken seriously and especially if he wants the Royals to help him with his show, he needs to at least make a phone call when calling for someone’s job.”

If you define a “blogger” as someone who delivers opinionated commentary over the internet from an informed but access-free perspective, then I’ve been a blogger since the founding of Baseball Prospectus over 13 years ago, which is to say for longer since the word “blogger” has existed. The part about “access-free” is critical, because that really is they lynchpin of the whole blogger/journalist dichotomy. Joe Posnanski has one of the most well-read blogs on the internet, but he’s not a blogger: he’s a journalist with a blog.

For all the criticisms that the mainstream media heap upon the blogosphere, most of them are just variations on a single theme: that bloggers neither have nor need access to the subjects they are covering, and because they don’t have access, they also don’t have accountability. It’s a simple fact of human nature that it’s a lot harder to criticize someone when you have to see them face-to-face on a regular basis.

What some members of the mainstream media – and certainly some sports franchises – fail to understand is that the lack of accountability is precisely what makes some bloggers so popular. Baseball Prospectus would never have existed if we had felt compelled to tone down our criticisms because we saw the targets of our criticism on a daily basis. When we started in 1996, the majority of major league teams were making demonstrably dumb decisions on a regular basis, and we called it like we saw it. Maybe we could have shown people like Chuck LaMar and Dave Littlefield more respect, but to do so would have been to disrespect our readers, who came to us to read the unvarnished truth instead of having smoke blown up their ass.

Blogs have evolved to serve as a set of checks and balances for traditional journalism, and while I find some of them needlessly vulgar and trashy, I make no apologies for the fact that blogs serve an invaluable purpose in the sports landscape. And not only can blogs and mainstream media coexist, they have to coexist – they can’t exist in today’s world without the other side. It would be almost impossible to blog about the Royals without the work of people like Mellinger and Bob Dutton, who go into the clubhouse on a daily basis and let us know what the Royals are doing and thinking. Flip the coin over, and without the passion and awareness of the local teams that bloggers cultivate, the Kansas City Star would have a lot fewer readers. The Star also benefits when bloggers occasionally break the taboo against speaking about uncomfortable topics – like, say, the team’s rash of injuries – that then opens the door for the newspaper to discuss the subject without risking open confrontation.

Bringing this back to the situation at hand, after 13 years of being a blogger – an unjournalist – I’ve put one foot through the doorway. And now I have to decide how far I want to take this transition from outsider to quasi-insider. I’d rather stop writing than surrender my objectivity, but at the same time, in all the years I’ve spent writing about the Royals, I’ve tried to aim my words in the direction of the team as much as to my readers. I’m not just writing to attract an audience – I’m writing to effect change in the organization. The ultimate goal of this blog is for the Royals to win.

So having spent all these years building a bridge to the Royals, it makes no sense to burn that bridge as soon as it’s been finished. I don’t want to tilt at windmills. If that means behaving a little more like a journalist and a little less like a blogger, than so be it.

Re-reading my original piece that set all of this in motion, I have no regrets about my argument and about the facts that I used to defend it. And I’d hate for this controversy to overshadow what provoked it: the Royals’ medical system is light-years behind the industry standard. That’s just a simple fact. If you don’t believe me, read this. The vanguard of major-league teams are trying to use statistics to further their understanding of injury risk – the Royals are still not convinced they should use statistics at all.

But I do think I could have made it a little less personal. While I still strongly feel that Nick Swartz is a part of the problem, the tone of my attacks presupposed a degree of certainty that I don’t have. More to the point, I could have written the exact same column, replaced “Nick Swartz” with “the medical and training staff”, and gotten the same point across.

I’d like to think that I do a good job of criticizing the Royals without crossing the line of making things personal. I’m not sure that I crossed that line this time, but I probably came closer than I should have. So going forward, I’ll try to keep this incident in mind the next time I decide to bring the hammer down. (Which won’t be long, I’m sure.) It’s not going to have an impact on 95% of my columns, honestly. But the other 5% of the time, when I’m so mad about something that I have trouble seeing straight, maybe I’ll wait until the morning before posting and sleep on it first.

Every crisis is also an opportunity, and I’ve tried to use this crisis as an opportunity to see how to handle things better in the future. I hope the Royals are doing the same thing. I think they handled things a lot worse than I did, but that’s not an excuse for me to not try to learn something from this. I mean, "better than the Royals" hasn't been a compliment since the early 1990s.

And with that, let’s move on. If I gaze any deeper into my navel I’m going to start seeing my intestines.

xxx

So how did we get into this mess? Even with their modest three-game winning streak, the Royals have won 18 of their last 54 games – they’ve won exactly one-third of their games over one-third of the season. As I write this, the best pitcher in baseball is losing to someone named Luke French, 3-0. Billy Butler has doubled three times – and has neither scored nor driven in a run, because the 1, 2, 4, and 5 hitters have yet to reach base.

If you break down all the transactions that Dayton Moore has made since taking over in Kansas City, you find some very interesting trends. I think the most compelling is this: Moore has done a very good job – maybe even an outstanding job – of acquiring players based on a perception of their future value. He has done an absolutely horrendous job of acquiring players based on a perception of their present value.

By that, I mean that when Moore has acquired a player who has yet to establish himself in the major leagues, or a player who is established but who the Royals feel is capable of making a leap forward, he has done well. When Moore has acquired an established major league player based on what that player has already done, he has done terribly.

Just look at a list of the significant acquisitions on the current roster:

Acquired based on future value:

Gil Meche

Joakim Soria

Brian Bannister

Alberto Callaspo

Acquired based on present value:

Jose Guillen

Tony Pena

Miguel Olivo

Mike Jacobs

Kyle Farnsworth

Horacio Ramirez*

Willie Bloomquist

Juan Cruz

*: Okay, I’m cheating. But he was such a terrible signing I get to count him anyway.

Let’s break this down.

Soria was an obscure Mexican pitcher when he was plucked out of the Rule 5 draft. Bannister had made all of eight major league appearances and his minor league track record suggested he was a #4 or 5 starter at best; most observers thought the Royals were nuts for trading Ambiorix Burgos and his 100-mph fastball for him. Callaspo had a great minor-league track record – a career .317 minor league average – but had hit just .220 in two trials with the Diamondbacks, and was trailed by whispers about his character after a domestic violence incident with his wife – Moore bought low by getting him for Bill Buckner, who now has a 6.50 career ERA.

Meche, unlike the three guys above, was an established major league pitcher when the Royals outbid everyone with a 5-year, $55-million contract. But as with Soria, Bannister, and Callaspo, Meche was targeted because of what the Royals thought he could become, not who he was.

At the time, he was a chronic underachiever with a 4.65 career ERA, who drove the Mariners and their fans crazy because the results never matched his stuff. The Royals’ front office thought that they knew how to fix him, and had the balls to gamble $55 million that they could. That gamble has paid off better than almost anyone outside the organization expected: Meche has a 3.88 ERA in a Royals uniform, and has never missed a start. The acquisition of Soria may have been Moore’s best move, but in terms of gambling on a player to do something he’s never done before and have that gamble pay off, nothing comes close to the Meche signing.

All four players have exceeded expectations since joining the Royals. All four have exceeded expectations largely because the Royals correctly predicted that they would become better players than they were at the moment they were acquired. There’s a word for that: scouting.

Now look at the other list. Moore gave Jose Guillen a 3-year, $36 million contract not because he thought Guillen was going to get better, but because of what Guillen had already done: in his three previous healthy seasons before signing, Guillen had hit between .283 and .294, with between 23 and 27 homers each year. He signed Miguel Olivo because Olivo had hit 16 homers each of the last two years, and had a strong arm behind the plate. He traded for Mike Jacobs because Jacobs had hit 32 homers the year before and the Royals needed some power. He signed Kyle Farnsworth because the Professor threw 100 miles an hour. He signed Willie Bloomquist because of his versatility, intangibles, and ability to perform magic spells. He signed Horacio Ramirez because Ramirez, at some point in this millennium, had briefly been an effective starting pitcher. He signed Juan Cruz because Cruz was the best reliever left on the market.

I’ll dispense with Cruz because there was near-unanimous agreement that it was a savvy move at the time, given the cost and Cruz’s pedigree. Cruz’s overall numbers are down – particularly his strikeouts – but it’s not yet clear whether he’s lost his stuff or just going through a prolonged slump. And Bloomquist has been everything the Royals advertised he’d be: capable of playing everywhere on the field, fast, heady, and a better hitter than we expected.

But look at the other guys. The Royals committed $36 million to Guillen in the hopes that he would continue to hit the way he had hit the last few years – ignoring the fact that 1) he was at an age where players of his ilk tend to drop off a cliff, and 2) owing to his shoddy plate discipline, he wasn’t nearly as good a hitter as they thought he was in the first place. Olivo did hit 16 homers in both 2006 and 2007 – unfortunately, he didn’t draw 16 walks in either 2006 or 2007. The Royals can’t claim to be disappointed in how Olivo has played because he has played exactly as well – if not better – than he did before he was acquired. Olivo’s line with the Marlins was .249/.275/.422, and with Kansas City it is .252/.276/.466.

Olivo is responsible for two of the most amazing stats of the year. As one brilliant commenter on Royals Review pointed out, Olivo has reached base on a wild pitch following a strikeout three times – and has also walked three times. Olivo has reached base on a strikeout as often as he has reached base on a walk. Just as impressively, for the season Olivo has 71 strikeouts to go along with those 3 walks. No one in the history of baseball has ever struck out that many times with so few walks. The previous record holder, Rob Picciolo (with 63 Ks and 2 BBs in 1980) is probably the most infamous hacker in major league history.

The Royals wanted Jacobs because he hit 32 homers last season – not only did they neglect the fact that he had never hit more than 20 homers before, they didn’t understand that even with those 32 homers, Jacobs was not that good. He only hit .247; he only walked 36 times; he played horrible defense at the game’s easiest position. There was a reason the Marlins were so eager to trade him, and a reason that no other team was particularly eager to acquire him. The Royals also talked up the fact that Jacobs would hit for more power away from the Marlins’ spacious stadium, while ignoring the fact that Kauffman Stadium is one of the toughest home run parks in baseball.

They signed Farnsworth because Moore had a notion that the bullpen was like a jigsaw puzzle: it was simply missing a piece to complete it, and that piece was a pitcher with a big fastball. Somehow Farnsworth’s career 4.47 ERA got overlooked in the process.

And finally there is Tony Pena, who unlike the other guys on the second list was not an established major leaguer. I would still venture that he belongs here, because when Moore sent the Braves a prospect to acquire Pena, he wasn’t doing so because he felt that Pena was about to have a breakout season. He did so because he thought that what Pena was at that moment – a career .252/.285/.332 hitter in the minor leagues – was playable at shortstop. Pena was better than expected as a rookie, and has hit like a pitcher ever since – but his overall line with the Royals, .228/.248/.299, is almost identical to his minor league translations. Pena is who we thought he was – and who the Royals thought he was, or at least what they should have thought he was. The problem is that the player he was – the player they should have expected – was such an execrable hitter that no amount of defense could redeem him.

In all of these cases, the Royals acquired a player not based on their expectation of his future potential, but based on their understanding of his current value. And just as the former can be defined as “scouting”, the latter can be defined as “statistical analysis.”

This is the Braves Way that we were all promised when Moore was hired. Moore has done a solid job of scouting, both in terms of picking up young talent but also in terms of picking the right talent to trade away. (The best example of the latter is the fact that he traded Burgos, Andy Sisco, and Mike MacDougal all shortly after he was hired – all three threw extremely hard, and all three have since proven that all the velocity in the world doesn’t matter if you don’t know how to pitch.)

But under Moore, the Royals have shown a willful disregard for any kind of serious statistical analysis. Oh, they’ve paid lip service to it at times, publicly talking about the importance of plate discipline from time to time. But the Royals seem to regard plate discipline as something that can be taught – they hired Kevin Seitzer largely for that reason – as opposed to something which is intrinsic to the player. This is ironic, since the Braves Way is to obsess over tools, innate abilities which can not be acquired, and yet they don’t seem to regard plate discipline as a tool despite overwhelming evidence that it functions the same way.

The Braves Way still might work. The bottom line about building a franchise is that if you do a good job of signing and developing young talent, you’ll succeed; if you don’t, you won’t. Everything else is just details. The Royals have devoted more resources to their minor league system over the last 3 years than they had at any point in my lifetime, and if that continues eventually that focus should bear fruit.

The Royals spent a major league-record $11 million in the draft last year; this year, they’ve already spent $2 million on a pair of international free agents (Korean catcher Jin-Ho Shin and Panamanian third baseman Cheslor Cuthbert), who are the two most expensive international amateur talents the team has ever signed. Post-game host Greg Schaum has tweeted that the Royals have an agreement with third-round pick Wil Myers which is being delayed only for the sake of Bud Selig’s delicate ears. If that’s the case, then for the second straight year (after fourth-rounder Tim Melville last year) the Royals will have signed a borderline first-round talent later in the draft because they were willing to spend money where others weren’t.

All that is well and good. There’s certainly nothing wrong with the Braves Way, which (along with the services of three Hall of Fame pitchers) helped Atlanta to 14 division titles. But someone needs to tell Dayton Moore, Dean Taylor, J.J. Picollo, and all the other guys that came over from Atlanta: it’s not 1995 anymore, fellas. The bar has been raised – major league organizations are much, much better run today than they were 15 years ago, and the greatest source of that improvement is in the way that teams use statistical analysis to augment the rest of their operations.

But while the rest of baseball is moving forward, the Braves Way seems bent on proving that you can still win with scouts alone. It’s not a coincidence that the Braves themselves have fallen on hard times the last few years, or that the purest distillation of the Braves Way in a single player, Jeff Francoeur, has turned into, well, Jeff Francoeur.

The greatest mistakes of Dayton Moore’s tenure have been, almost without exception, when he ignored statistical analysis. He ignored the analysis that said that Jose Guillen was an overrated hitter and was at an age where he would likely become an albatross quickly. He ignored OBP entirely when he signed Olivo and traded for Jacobs. He ignored every offensive statistic ever devised when he acquired Tony Pena. He ignored every pitching statistic other than strikeouts when he gave Farnsworth nine million dollars. He ignored the fact that analysts like myself hated every one of these moves.

This disregard for statistics goes beyond the numbers that get created on the field and extends to things like contract analysis – the Royals had trouble understanding that it would have been a bad idea to trade anything for Mike Jacobs, because for the money he was going to be awarded in arbitration, he actually had negative value. That’s how you wind up spending more money on payroll than you ever have before without improving the team one whit.

Despite what Moneyball may have you believe, stats aren’t everything. But despite what Scout’s Honor might have you believe, scouts aren’t everything either. Until the Royals acknowledge that both approaches are necessary in order to build a winning team, they’re going to continue to finish near the bottom of the league in walks, they’re going to continue to spend millions on mediocre veterans, and they’re going to continue to disappoint.

Arsonist
07-09-2009, 10:04 AM
the royals are gonna suck forever cause our owners like to bring in old burnt out players and the shittiest managers they can find so they can save a buck. It's sad and frustrating but all I can say is go Chiefs and go KU

Sure-Oz
07-09-2009, 10:51 AM
Great posting by rany

DeezNutz
07-09-2009, 10:57 AM
Despite what Moneyball may have you believe, stats aren’t everything. But despite what Scout’s Honor might have you believe, scouts aren’t everything either. Until the Royals acknowledge that both approaches are necessary in order to build a winning team, they’re going to continue to finish near the bottom of the league in walks, they’re going to continue to spend millions on mediocre veterans, and they’re going to continue to disappoint.

This isn't happening anytime soon. Hillman speaks the language of statistical analysis ("needing to get Farnsworth in higher-leverage situations") but then continually pisses on the numbers in practice (playing Jacobs against LHP, pinch hitting for Jacobs against LHP but first allowing TPJ to face the same pitcher!).

This level of stupidity starts at the top. Hello, Dayton Moore.

Sure-Oz
07-09-2009, 11:02 AM
But Jacobs has power!1111111111

I hope Dayton learned from his mistakes, and looks at stats alot more

Deberg_1990
07-09-2009, 11:22 AM
Well, the Royals had to sign somebody over the past few years (B level talent like Guillen and Jacobs) or they would have been crucified by the fanbase.


The Royals cant draw A+ free agents, because they are the AAA Royals around the league.

Its all just a vicious circle.

DeezNutz
07-09-2009, 11:24 AM
Well, the Royals had to sign somebody over the past few years (B level talent like Guillen and Jacobs) or they would have been crucified by the fanbase.


The Royals cant draw A+ free agents, because they are the AAA Royals around the league.

Its all just a vicious circle.

They can get top talent, an A+ guy, but they're going to have to vastly overpay. And I don't car at all. Pony up the money, Glass, and consider it late payment for fucking this fanbase for years.

Demonpenz
07-09-2009, 11:31 AM
if the fanbase can stomach Doug Mienkavich batting 3rd they can survive anything

ChiTown
07-09-2009, 11:44 AM
if the fanbase can stomach Doug Mienkavich batting 3rd they can survive anything

You spelled his name wrong - It's Mancavebitch

DeezNutz
07-09-2009, 11:51 AM
if the fanbase can stomach Doug Mienkavich batting 3rd they can survive anything

:shake:
How are there still fans of this franchise?

Demonpenz
07-09-2009, 11:54 AM
Mark Quinn award goes toooo Alex Gordon

Deberg_1990
07-09-2009, 11:56 AM
Mark Quinn award goes toooo Alex Gordon


ROFL

BTW, anyone heard when he is coming back??

Sure-Oz
07-09-2009, 12:24 PM
wtf is this dude in AA?

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=SS&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=516661

Sure-Oz
07-09-2009, 12:25 PM
ROFL

BTW, anyone heard when he is coming back??

After the AS break, he's been batting .333 with a few HR's and 10 walks

ChiTown
07-09-2009, 12:33 PM
wtf is this dude in AA?

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=SS&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=516661

:eek:

Nice start to A Ball for sure.

Sure-Oz
07-09-2009, 12:39 PM
:eek:

Nice start to A Ball for sure.

a SS that is coming out of nowhere? I mean he is on a tear so far...hmm, hope he is one of those guys that comes out of nowhere to succeed, i know its a real small sample size though.

DeezNutz
07-09-2009, 12:51 PM
wtf is this dude in AA?

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=SS&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=516661

43 ABs:

1 BB and 9 SO. Hitting .395 with a .400 OBP.

Hope he rakes, but plate discipline doesn't seem to be his strength, so he should fit right in with the big club.

thurman merman
07-09-2009, 12:56 PM
wtf is this dude in AA?

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=SS&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=516661

this guy is currently the shortstop in AA:

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=&sid=t1350&t=p_pbp&pid=488703

Sure-Oz
07-09-2009, 02:32 PM
this guy is currently the shortstop in AA:

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=&sid=t1350&t=p_pbp&pid=488703

I hope he keeps raking, i hear he could play 2b too, but maybe he could be our SSOTF if we dont get one soon

DeezNutz
07-09-2009, 02:35 PM
If Baird were still here, he'd say "Fuck it," and bring both these kids up. LMAO.

Demonpenz
07-09-2009, 02:44 PM
If Baird were still here, he'd say "Fuck it," and bring both these kids up. LMAO.

not always a bad thing brought up damon mid season i remember 18 seasons later....hall of fame!

BWillie
07-09-2009, 02:48 PM
If Baird were still here, he'd say "**** it," and bring both these kids up. LMAO.

If you are going to be an All-Star, you are going to be an All-Star. Bringing you up early may hinder a player's development, but if they are good enough they will make it eventually. There is absolutely no other pro league I've ever heard of where bringing someone up to get experience in the big leagues is a BAD thing.

Sure-Oz
07-09-2009, 02:49 PM
I remember when damon first came up and him and george brett did commercials together. i always loved damons ability to stutter and talk weird LMAO

sportsman1
07-09-2009, 04:13 PM
ROFL

BTW, anyone heard when he is coming back??

Mark Quinn? Hopefully soon.. We could use a major bat like Quinn could bring!

Deberg_1990
07-09-2009, 04:16 PM
Mark Quinn? Hopefully soon.. We could use a major bat like Quinn could bring!

heh.

Watching Jacobs swing makes me long for the days of Mark Quinn and Bob Hamlin.

KChiefs1
07-09-2009, 07:50 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9786744/Greinke-deserves-to-start-for-AL-in-All-Star-Game

DETROIT - The numbers say the Royals' Zack Greinke deserves to start the All-Star Game, but you knew that already. Even after losing to the Tigers on Wednesday night, he is 10-5 and leads the majors with a 2.12 ERA.

But that's only one reason Greinke should be standing on the rubber during the bottom of the first inning next Tuesday in St. Louis. There is another consideration here, something simple and complicated at the same time.

Greinke wants to do it.

"I hope to," he said late Wednesday night. "I think (Roy) Halladay's got a pretty good argument himself, especially with the experience he has. I'll be happy with either decision. If it's someone besides us two, I think that'd be a little weird."

Greinke, 25, has been Heartwarming Story No. 1 during the first half of the season. After battling social anxiety disorder, a condition that forced him to step away from the game in 2006, he has become a bona fide star for Kansas City.

At the risk of oversimplifying a complex medical diagnosis, many affected by social anxiety disorder have difficulty with normal-seeming situations that involve other people.

That in mind, consider the following:
On Monday, particularly if he is named the starting pitcher, Greinke will probably encounter more reporters than on any other day of his life.

On Tuesday, regardless of when he enters the game, Greinke will be performing on the biggest stage of his baseball career.

Fellow Royals right-hander Gil Meche, an All-Star in 2007, has offered a few pointers on what to expect. And you know what? Greinke, though still shy, seems to be looking forward to it.

"He says it's one of the most fun times he's had in his life," Greinke said. "We'll see. It probably will be. Everyone says it's an amazing experience. In a couple days, it should be fun."

Trey Hillman has wondered how Greinke will respond to the media attention, because managers think about things like that. But Hillman said he isn't worried now, because Greinke has handled the success "exceptionally well" so far.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=275 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>http://msn.foxsports.com/id/9786814_36_3.jpg</TD></TR><TR><TD class=caption>Zack Greinke would savor the opportunity to start for the AL in this year's All-Star Game. (Jamie Squire / Getty Images)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
"Have I thought about it? Yeah, I've thought about it," said Hillman, who will serve on the American League staff under Rays manager Joe Maddon. "I don't think he'll handle it much differently than he's handled all the attention from the SI article and all the attention he's gotten at home.

"I don't think it'll have a great effect on him, mentally or physically. I think he'll go out, regardless of when Joe decides to pitch him. I think he'll do a very good job."

Hillman said he would "love" for Greinke to get the start, and there's no denying that it would make for compelling theater on a midsummer's night. Because while most baseball fans are familiar with Greinke — to the extent that he (a) has battled social anxiety disorder and (b) is arguably the best pitcher in baseball this year — he's not one of the game's most visible stars.

They know he has amazing numbers. They have seen his strikeouts on the highlight reels. But that's pretty much it. The Royals are not exactly regulars on the Saturday/Sunday national television circuit. And not everyone has the premium baseball package.

So, for all practical purposes, next Tuesday will be the first opportunity for people across the country to sit down, at the same time, and watch Zack Greinke work.

"Everybody's talked about him, but they might not have had an opportunity to watch him pitch this year," Meche said. "What bigger stage to put him on than to start the All-Star Game and show everybody what's been going on? With all the talk about him and the things he's overcome, the things he's doing now ... why not?"

Hard to argue with that. A case could be made for Halladay, who has never started an All-Star Game, but he's already received one honor this season: Most Googled Trade Possibility in a Three-Day Span.

Halladay is scheduled to pitch Thursday afternoon against Maddon's Rays, so he will have the chance to leave a final impression. But it should be noted that Halladay has a 4.85 ERA over his first two starts since coming off the disabled list (groin strain).

Greinke's first-half résumé is complete after allowing three earned runs in six innings on Wednesday. With better luck and better defense — common laments for the Kansas City nine — Greinke could have kept the Tigers scoreless.

When asked about his accomplishments over the season to date, he replied, "It's been good so far, but it's a whole season thing to me ... The first half doesn't count as the whole season, so you've got to keep going until the season's over."

Good thing others have no trouble praising him.

Before the game, I asked three Detroit players for their opinion on who should start for the AL. Edwin Jackson, an All-Star, picked Greinke. Justin Verlander, an All-Star, picked Greinke. Brandon Inge, who could be an All-Star if the fans' final vote goes his way, pointed at a nearby TV set.

"Start him," he said.

It was Greinke, on a scouting reel.

"It'd be ridiculous if he doesn't," Meche said. "I know it's his first All-Star Game, but his numbers are better than anybody's in the league — in both leagues. If anybody deserves a start, it's him. I'd have to imagine that he's anticipating starting, just from the talks, and hopefully he does.

"You have the best numbers, you start. ... I think it's a no-brainer. If he doesn't, I'll be shocked. If they're going off stats this season, he starts, period."

Whether he gets the nod or not, here's hoping Greinke enjoys the game and associated hubbub. I couldn't help but think about the forthcoming frenzy as I stood among the four-person contingent that interviewed him Wednesday night.

Greinke, the small-market pitcher who everyone sort of knows, is about to go national.

International, even. And he said it himself: It should be fun.

DeezNutz
07-09-2009, 07:55 PM
If you are going to be an All-Star, you are going to be an All-Star. Bringing you up early may hinder a player's development, but if they are good enough they will make it eventually. There is absolutely no other pro league I've ever heard of where bringing someone up to get experience in the big leagues is a BAD thing.

I'd like the top prospects to at least get a cup of coffee in AAA, to succeed at all levels, before making the club.

sedated
07-10-2009, 11:50 AM
http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090707/SPORTS05/907070338/1025/Early-love-for-game-still-drives-Moustakas

Blue Rocks third baseman Mike Moustakas picked up a baseball bat at the age of three. He has been taking big cuts ever since.

"My dad always wanted to get me into sports, mostly to stay out of trouble," Moustakas said. "I ended up loving baseball. I played it every day. I never really took a day off. I was playing for like three or four teams at a time, so it was always baseball from day one."

That love for the game enabled Moustakas to enjoy a decorated high school career at Chatsworth (Calif.) High School.

He was a member of Chatsworth's 2004 national championship team. As a senior, he batted .577 with 24 home runs, which earned player of the year honors and a spot on the USA Today All-USA Team. Moustakas holds the California high school record for homers with 54.

"It really started with my freshman year," the 20-year old said. "We had an amazing team. The seniors on the team really taught me how to play the game and about respect for coaches."

The Kansas City Royals selected Moustakas with the second overall pick in the 2007 draft. After playing for Idaho Falls of the Pioneer League and Burlington of the Class A Midwest League, the 6-foot, 195-pounder is leaving his mark with the Rocks.

In the first half of the season, he was fifth in the Carolina League with 42 RBIs, had 15 doubles, and recorded a team-high eight home runs while hitting .265. He was chosed, along with Blue Rocks teammates David Lough and Danny Duffy, to play in the California-Carolina All-Star Game.

"It's amazing, especially in a league like this," Moustakas said. "It was a lot of talent on that one team. It was a lot of fun to be on a team with that type of talent."

Baseball America rates Moustakas as the top prospect in the Royals' farm system. Rocks manager Brian Rupp agrees.

"He's a big league superstar," Rupp said. "He's got power, he can hit. He's got the whole package. He's going to play in the big leagues for a long time."

Moustakas does not take his rating lightly.

"It's really an honor, especially with the type of talent we have throughout this whole system," he said. "We've got guys at every position that have big-league capabilities. Being ranked the top prospect in this organization is definitely an honor."




Moustakas hears the accolades, but tries not to let them cloud his vision. He still sees elements in his game that need improvement.

"My lateral foot speed, moving left to right," he said. "Hitting the ball the opposite way, taking what the pitchers give me instead of trying to do too much with the pitch. I've been working hard every day, extra work, early work, staying after practice. I've got a lot of work to do, a lot of stuff I need to get better on.

"People dream about making the major leagues. I really dream about making it there and sticking around, being a great player for a long time, winning a bunch of championships with the Royals. So, whatever it takes for me to get there."

It's that attitude that makes him a joy to manage.

"He's a great kid," Rupp said. "He's a young kid, but he is the kind of guy that guys gravitate toward. He's not always loud and vocal, but he plays hard and plays the game the right way. It's nice to see that being 20 years old, he's not carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders."

High praise aside, Moustakas was not satisfied with the Rocks' first half and is focused on improving.

"It could have been better. We weren't putting up a lot of runs as a team," he said. "Hopefully this second half can go a lot better. We came alive towards the late end of the first half, so hopefully it carries through to the second half.

"We're trying to bring a championship back home to Wilmington. It's going to be a lot of fun. We've got a great group of guys here and we're going to take on the second half."

With a bright future, Moustakas is just enjoying the ride.

"Right now, it's just taking it day by day," he said. "Just going out there and playing hard, and we'll see. I'm out here living a dream. People are back home working nine-to-five jobs and I'm out here doing what I love to do. It's a dream come true."

DeezNutz
07-10-2009, 07:35 PM
http://bases.newsvine.com/_news/2009/06/26/2973671-royals-moore-lacks-vision-should-lack-job?category=sports

Reaper16
07-10-2009, 07:57 PM
http://bases.newsvine.com/_news/2009/06/26/2973671-royals-moore-lacks-vision-should-lack-job?category=sports
Rah Roh

Sure-Oz
07-11-2009, 10:28 AM
Gordon 2-4 hr and 2 rbis...

batting .368 during AA

In 10 total games in the minors combined he's 10/29 2 dbls 3 hr 13 rbi 10 walks batting overall .345 1.224 ops

yeah i know he's always hit minor league pitching but its good to see

DeezNutz
07-12-2009, 10:59 PM
More uplifting stuff from JoPo (http://www.kansascity.com/180/story/1320086.html):

ST. LOUIS | So, it’s the All-Star break now. And in the final weekend of the first half:

•The Royals lose three games in a row.

•They average three runs per game in the losses, only they do it the hard way, by scoring zero runs, nine runs and zero runs again.

•With the bases loaded, they get a runner (Miguel Olivo) forced out at home plate by an outfielder. Well, that’s new.

•They have another player (José Guillen) lose track of the number of outs. By my unofficial count, that’s the fourth time that has happened to a Royals player this year.

•Tony Peña Jr. picks up both his fifth hit and fifth error of the season.

•They trade for a shortstop, Yuniesky Betancourt, who has the lowest on-base percentage in all of baseball among regulars since 2007.

•They finish the first half with a 37-51 record — two games worse than last year, even though they actually started this season 18-11.

It all went so wrong. Nobody was demanding that the Royals win a championship this year. But I do think people expected this team to put away the embarrassment of the past and be a reasonably good team. A .500 record seemed a reasonable goal. A few meaningful games in August seemed a plausible hope. This team has pretty good starting pitching. This team has a dominant closer. This team has spent more than $50 million the last couple of years to improve this offense — think for a moment about what you could get for 50 million dollars.

And then the Royals got off to that good start, and Zack Greinke was the talk of baseball and … it all went so wrong. Injuries. Travesties. Comedies. You name it. At one point, the Royals got blown out by five or more runs on five consecutive days — first time that happened in team history. Another time, they scored one or fewer runs in four consecutive games — tied a team record there. In just the last two months, they’ve had an eight-game losing streak, a six-game losing streak, a five-game losing streak and two four-game losing streaks. That’s some seriously bad baseball.

There were the moments. José Guillen got hit in the face with a ball while trying to field it. Mitch Maier tackled a third baseman who was trying to field a ground ball. In one game, two different Royals got doubled off first base on routine fly balls to the outfield. In another, the Royals hit into double plays in six consecutive innings.

The Royals opened an entirely renovated Kauffman Stadium, and their pitcher for that celebratory first game was Sidney Ponson. The Royals lost a game in Cleveland when the game-winning hit bounced off a seagull.

There were the injuries. Catcher John Buck got hurt picking up a batting helmet. Pitcher Kyle Farnsworth got hurt by breaking up a fight between his dogs. Guillen decided to play doctor and remove his own ingrown toenail.

And then, special category, there was the fun relationship between Royals manager Trey Hillman and starter Gil Meche. Early in the year, Meche complained of back trouble. He pitched through it. And then, one day, Hillman allowed Meche to throw 132 pitches — most of his career. Meche wanted to do it and said it did not affect him at all. But his next two starts were terrible, and Meche said his arm felt dead. He didn’t think it had anything to do with the 132-pitch outing. He really didn’t.

Meche thought about skipping a start. Instead, after resting a couple of days, Meche said he felt better. He would start, though the Royals (obviously) said that they would monitor his pitch count. And they did — Hillman monitored while Meche threw 121 more pitches — a ton of pitches for anyone, much less someone with a bad back and a dead arm.

Two starts later — Saturday — Meche had to leave the game because of back spasms. As of Sunday, he said he still could not bend over — though he anticipates trying to make his next start. Well, sure he will — the guy’s like the Black Knight from “Monty Python and the Holy Grail.” You’d have to cut off both his arms and legs to make him miss a start. But don’t tempt Trey Hillman.

And so it goes. With things going downhill, the Royals traded their 2008 minor-league pitcher of the year, Dan Cortes, to Seattle for Betancourt. Now, how you look at this move probably depends on how you look at advanced statistics. Defensive statistics — like Ultimate Zone Rating and the Fielding Bible Plus/Minus — show Betancourt to be the very worst shortstop in the game. Offensive statistics — like on-base percentage, OPS+, VORP (Value Over Replacement Player) — show him to be one of the worst offensive players in the game. Base-running statistics show him to be one of the worst base runners in the game.

“Might be the worst everyday player in baseball,” ESPN’s Keith Law says, summing up the general reaction of the Internet community.

But … maybe you don’t believe in advanced statistics. The Royals like Betancourt. Former teammates like Meche, Guillen and Willie Bloomquist like him. Hillman is in his office having fun playing around with new Yuniesky-infused lineups. Royals general manager Dayton Moore talks about how Betancourt can make an impact with both the bat and the glove … and he will undoubtedly do that.

To give us a preview, here’s Tacoma columnist John McGrath from his column:

“Yuniesky Betancourt gave it no thought — when it comes to baseball, he gives no thought to anything — but at least he had a chance to show why he fell from grace with the Mariners organization the other night. During a rehab assignment at Cheney Stadium, Betancourt forgot there was only one out and ran from second to third on a routine fly ball. The resulting double play put a punctuation mark on his extraordinarily disappointing regression from shortstop of the future to addition-by-subtraction trade commodity.”

Well, we’re at the All-Star break of another depressing season, so what can you say? At least Yuniesky Betancourt should fit right in.

Reaper16
07-12-2009, 11:58 PM
From the pathetic headlines department: "Manny Acta has been fired as manager of the Washington Nationals (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=was), he told ESPNdeportes.com's Enrique Rojas on Sunday."

Let's hope that the Nats have the good sense to pursue Trey Hillman.

ChiTown
07-13-2009, 06:32 AM
“Yuniesky Betancourt gave it no thought — when it comes to baseball, he gives no thought to anything — but at least he had a chance to show why he fell from grace with the Mariners organization the other night. During a rehab assignment at Cheney Stadium, Betancourt forgot there was only one out and ran from second to third on a routine fly ball. The resulting double play put a punctuation mark on his extraordinarily disappointing regression from shortstop of the future to addition-by-subtraction trade commodity.”

Well, we’re at the All-Star break of another depressing season, so what can you say? At least Yuniesky Betancourt should fit right in.

:banghead::banghead:

God, make it STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do we just actively shop for players who jump off the Short Bus?

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 07:28 AM
DM on 810 right now about betancourt...

say's that you can only acquire the talent that is made available to you...(sounds as if yunel escobar wasn't available)

Hopes betancourt can turn the ship around and become the player that they see that plays good defense and can hit for avg and solid power for a SS. Change of scenery may be good for him and knows alot of people from SEA, including players and staff on his ballclub, considered all sources and tried to get him for about a month now. Said looking at FA for the next 2 years this was the best idea, cause they expect to pay alot for a jack wilson or scutaro and the price isn't too much with the money they got for betancourt either. Payroll is around $70 mill....

Said when they acquired pena jr a few years ago they tried to get orlando cabrera and miguel tejeda but gordon and butler were the names mentioned to getting them by the clubs, so he refused to deal them to get them cause it would be a really bad move.
Said he is aware of OBP and doesn't ignore it and looks at stats. Knew he was going to get alot of criticism for the move, but thinks it will work out in the end and knows betancourt is better than he has shown this year, esp defensively.

Had to go inside to work now so i can't hear the rest, but interesting info. Said he'll always be aggressive in getting ML talent. Say's he has guys that use sabremetrics and takes everything into consideration etc. Has a great staff that he keeps close etc..

Mecca
07-13-2009, 07:54 AM
Well that's nice he thinks it'll work out, I'm sure he thought all of his other stupid moves would work out too.

KCUnited
07-13-2009, 08:23 AM
He basically refuted defensive statistics as a measure. Compared the training staff of today from when he took over, said night and day.

Oh, also said Trey consulted with Bloomy regarding Betancourt. Bloomy advised he'd be a gold glove ss. Got a bit of a chuckle envisioning that conversation.

BigCatDaddy
07-13-2009, 08:39 AM
He basically refuted defensive statistics as a measure. Compared the training staff of today from when he took over, said night and day.

Oh, also said Trey consulted with Bloomy regarding Betancourt. Bloomy advised he'd be a gold glove ss. Got a bit of a chuckle envisioning that conversation.



I think he just wanted to look into Bloom's dreamy blue eyes.

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 08:50 AM
Looks like Roy Halladay will start the AS game....bullshit...

Roy has never started and is deserving but Zack has def. had the better 1st half
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Baseball/article/665038

Aaron Hill, Roy Halladay start for AL all-stars
TheStar.com - Baseball - Aaron Hill, Roy Halladay start for AL all-stars


DAVE KAUP/REUTERS FILE PHOTO
Aaron Hill's all-star credentials: 20 home runs, 60 RBIs, 114 hits. July 13, 2009
Mark Zwolinski
SPORTS REPORTER

BALTIMORE – The Blue Jays' Aaron Hill will be proud and just a tad excited come 8 p.m. tomorrow night.

That's when he'll be hearing his name announced at Busch Stadium in St. Louis as the starting second baseman for the American League all-star team.

"Oh yeah," Hill said after the Jays' 4-2 loss in Baltimore yesterday when asked about what his reaction will be. "It'll be fun."

Another Jay is also expected to hear his name announced with the starters: Multiple reports say Roy Halladay has been asked to start and has accepted.

The biggest moment in Hill's baseball career was confirmed yesterday when AL manager Joe Maddon inserted Hill among the starters after learning Boston's Dustin Pedroia was forgoing the game because of a family emergency.

Pedroia, voted to the starting nine by fans, told Maddon and league officials he would spend the all-star break with his wife as she deals with complications in the seventh month of pregnancy.

Hill reflected on Pedroia's situation with respect and concern.

"My wife is pregnant as well ... so I feel for him, I just hope everything is going to be fine," he said.

Hill was voted an all-star by his peers after a tremendous first half in which he ranks second in the league with 114 hits.

His 20 homers rank sixth in the league, as do his 60 RBIs.

Blue Jays bench coach Brian Butterfield, who also guided former Jay Orlando Hudson to all-star status, has been working with Hill.

"This is a game of habits, and Aaron is a creature of habit," Butterfield said. "He has a conditioning plan, a strength plan in the gym. You can see why he is where he is."

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 10:00 AM
DM on 810 right now about betancourt...

say's that you can only acquire the talent that is made available to you...(sounds as if yunel escobar wasn't available)

Hopes betancourt can turn the ship around and become the player that they see that plays good defense and can hit for avg and solid power for a SS. Change of scenery may be good for him and knows alot of people from SEA, including players and staff on his ballclub, considered all sources and tried to get him for about a month now. Said looking at FA for the next 2 years this was the best idea, cause they expect to pay alot for a jack wilson or scutaro and the price isn't too much with the money they got for betancourt either. Payroll is around $70 mill....

Said when they acquired pena jr a few years ago they tried to get orlando cabrera and miguel tejeda but gordon and butler were the names mentioned to getting them by the clubs, so he refused to deal them to get them cause it would be a really bad move.
Said he is aware of OBP and doesn't ignore it and looks at stats. Knew he was going to get alot of criticism for the move, but thinks it will work out in the end and knows betancourt is better than he has shown this year, esp defensively.

Had to go inside to work now so i can't hear the rest, but interesting info. Said he'll always be aggressive in getting ML talent. Say's he has guys that use sabremetrics and takes everything into consideration etc. Has a great staff that he keeps close etc..

And this is the signal that baseball is all but dead in KC. We have reached the ceiling of how far Glass is willing to go to fund the team. Thus almost all of our decisions, drafting/FA/etc., are going to need to be right to compete. Possible? Sure. Likely? No.

Moore said we wouldn't be able to pursue a FA SS b/c this would prevent us from keeping the likes of Teahen, DeJesus, Buck (I believe) and Jacobs. Signing a FA SS would mean keeping only 1 of these guys, while going with Betacourt would allow the team to keep 3 of the 4.

Sorry, if you have to worry about having enough money to ink any of the four guys I listed in the previous paragraph, you're going into battle with no ammunition.

I couldn't believe the shit I was hearing in the interview. If you haven't heard it, you need to (810's website). All efforts on the part of fans to support this franchise, as long as Glass owns it, are a complete waste.

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 10:11 AM
And this is the signal that baseball is all but dead in KC. We have reached the ceiling of how far Glass is willing to go to fund the team. Thus almost all of our decisions, drafting/FA/etc., are going to need to be right to compete. Possible? Sure. Likely? No.

Moore said we wouldn't be able to pursue a FA SS b/c this would prevent us from keeping the likes of Teahen, DeJesus, Buck (I believe) and Jacobs. Signing a FA SS would mean keeping only 1 of these guys, while going with Betacourt would allow the team to keep 3 of the 4.

Sorry, if you have to worry about having enough money to ink any of the four guys I listed in the previous paragraph, you're going into battle with no ammunition.

I couldn't believe the shit I was hearing in the interview. If you haven't heard it, you need to (810's website). All efforts on the part of fans to support this franchise, as long as Glass owns it, are a complete waste.


It seems DM is handcuffed to an extent, glass can open his pockets but at his own damn convenience...

We'll see what happens, all i know is hosmer and moustakas success is huge to DM staying in KC longterm.

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 10:13 AM
Roy Halladay-S-Blue Jays Jul. 13 - 11:36 am et

Roy Halladay will start Tuesday's All-Star game for the American League.

American League squad manager Joe Maddon cited Halladay's "body of work" as the reason he got the nod over Zack Greinke. Halladay, 32, is 10-3 this season with a 2.85 ERA, 1.10 WHIP and a 106/17 K/BB ratio.

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 10:14 AM
Gil Meche-S-Royals Jul. 13 - 10:07 am et

Gil Meche was still feeling some discomfort in his lower back Sunday.

Meche was forced from his start against the Red Sox on Saturday after just 3 2/3 innings. "It’s just tight," he said. "I can’t get it loose. I still can’t really bend over. I’ll be spending the next couple of days getting treatment to try to get it out of there." With the All-Star break, he should have plenty of time to recover without missing a start.
Source: Kansas City Star

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 10:14 AM
Alex Gordon hoping to rejoin Royals on Friday

Alex Gordon (hip surgery) is expected to rejoin the Royals on Friday, when their season resumes following the All-Star break.

Gordon has been sidelined nearly three months, but is currently on a rehab assignment with Double-A Northwest Arkansas and is hitting .364 in 11 games. The third baseman was batting .095/.269/.238 with one home run and three RBI in 21 at-bats before his surgery. His return should push Mark Teahen back into a utility role. Jul. 13 - 10:01 am et
Source: Kansas City Star

CaliforniaChief
07-13-2009, 10:16 AM
I hope Zack is really really really really pissed off and channels that into complete 2nd half dominance. And I hope that he gets the chance to screw Tampa in a meaningful game for the Rays. And I hope that Halladay gets BOMBED tomorrow night.

Dartgod
07-13-2009, 10:17 AM
And I hope that Halladay gets BOMBED tomorrow night.
ROFL

Why?

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 10:19 AM
ROFL

Why?

He's definetly deserving of starting, i personally hope maddon and trey get nailed by foul balls

petegz28
07-13-2009, 11:47 AM
Petro is tearing into Dayton Moore right now. I guess DM was on 810 this morning and more or less blamed Meche's injury on Meche and nothing to do with Hillman.

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 11:48 AM
Petro is tearing into Dayton Moore right now. I guess DM was on 810 this morning and more or less blamed Meche's injury on Meche and nothing to do with Hillman.

Listen to the entire interview on the 810 podcast. Most troubling thing I've heard in some time.

I am absolutely convinced that I care more about the franchise than the owner, which is making me re-evaluate a lot of things with respect to how I follow and support the Royals.

petegz28
07-13-2009, 11:49 AM
Listen to the entire interview on the 810 podcast. Most troubling thing I've heard in some time.

I am absolutely convinced that I care more about the franchise than the owner, which is making me re-evaluate a lot of things with respect to how I follow and support the Royals.

Can you give me the highlights?

Demonpenz
07-13-2009, 12:01 PM
I hope Zack is really really really really pissed off and channels that into complete 2nd half dominance. And I hope that he gets the chance to screw Tampa in a meaningful game for the Rays. And I hope that Halladay gets BOMBED tomorrow night.

what the hell? Holiday is badass and a future hall of famer plus we need the AL to have home field in case the royals make the world series

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 12:02 PM
Can you give me the highlights?

See post 1114.

Moore kept alluding to budget constraints throughout the entire interview. Said we couldn't afford either of the top 2 FA SS that will be available this off-season. If we signed one, we'd by able to keep only 1 of the following:
DeJesus, Teahen, one of the catchers, and Jacobs.

Getting Betancourt will allow us to keep 3 of the 4.

$70M payroll next year. Essentially, we're at our financial ceiling, which means Glass lied his ass off to all the tax payers who have funded his "new" stadium.

As a life-long Royals fan, this interview was an unbelievable shot to the gut. Nothing has changed at the K. Not one fucking thing.

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 12:05 PM
Basically our owner is FOS and really doesn't care what happens on the field as long as he is making a decent amount of $$$....it's always been the owner of this team since EK died.

penguinz
07-13-2009, 12:08 PM
See post 1114.

Moore kept alluding to budget constraints throughout the entire interview. Said we couldn't afford either of the top 2 FA SS that will be available this off-season. If we signed one, we'd by able to keep only 1 of the following:
DeJesus, Teahen, one of the catchers, and Jacobs.

Getting Betancourt will allow us to keep 3 of the 4.

$70M payroll next year. Essentially, we're at our financial ceiling, which means Glass lied his ass off to all the tax payers who have funded his "new" stadium.

As a life-long Royals fan, this interview was an unbelievable shot to the gut. Nothing has changed at the K. Not one ****ing thing.Whjy would we want to keep more than one of those guys?

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 12:16 PM
Whjy would we want to keep more than one of those guys?

I understand where you're coming from, I do. That said, when you have to worry about the ability to re-sign middling talent like DeJesus and Teahen, WTF is the point?

It's so pathetic it's laughable. I've been talking all year about the need to acquire "stars," and meanwhile Moore has to make moves to be able to afford "ok" guys.

So in sum: our owner doesn't give a ****, our GM can't identify talent of any sort, and our manager is ridiculously under-qualified.

Who is stupid? Me, for following this team.

This morning was eye-opening. I had bought into the belief that things had changed. Nope. Apparently I was a victim of Battered-Royals-Fan Syndrome. I got my ass kicked again today, and I'm ****ing sick of it.

CoMoChief
07-13-2009, 12:32 PM
I quit going to games after the Beltran trade. Well not totally. I've been to a few buck night games, and went to opening day and Cards game this season because they were free.

But for the most part I'm not willing to spend my money on this team if they're not willing to put a winning product on the field. Shit just have a winning season. That's all I'm asking for at least.

It all starts with ownership. Glass isn't willing to pay, therefore we won't EVER acquire top level FA's.

We can't draft. Our minor league system as of now sucks. So trading for anyone is out of the picture since our cubboard is bare. And trading Grienke would be just fuckin dumb as hell. Beltran trade-esque dumb.

MVChiefFan
07-13-2009, 12:58 PM
We can't draft. Our minor league system as of now sucks. So trading for anyone is out of the picture since our cubboard is bare.

I think this is the key. I'm in total amazement that, since Beltran, we haven't drafted a great offensive player that's come up to the bigs and tore it up. How do you have that many early picks and not produce at least one guy that can hit .300/30/100. It's almost like they're trying to suck.

sedated
07-13-2009, 12:58 PM
If we signed one, we'd by able to keep only 1 of the following:
DeJesus, Teahen, one of the catchers, and Jacobs.

Teahan or Gordon will probably need to go anyway. So does Jacobs.

If the catcher he referenced is Buck, I'm going to yack all over my keyboard. He must've meant Olivo.

It would be tough to choose between Olivo and DDJ, IMO. This year has proven that the organization has no depth in the OF. Guillen needs to DH, Coco is gone after this year, Maier sucks, and who else is there?

petegz28
07-13-2009, 12:59 PM
I am done with this team. I will watch them on TV but I will not be re-newing my tickets after this season. Glass ripped off the fans and flat out lied. Moore is being a dickhead and Hillman has no business on this team......

I cannot believe you justify not signing a legit SS because you want to keep Buck and Jacobs!!!!!!

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 01:02 PM
Teahan or Gordon will probably need to go anyway. So does Jacobs.

If the catcher he referenced is Buck, I'm going to yack all over my keyboard. He must've meant Olivo.

It would be tough to choose between Olivo and DDJ, IMO. This year has proven that the organization has no depth in the OF. Guillen needs to DH, Coco is gone after this year, Maier sucks, and who else is there?

"One of the catchers." Those were Moore's exact words.

Look, I want us to re-sign DeJesus, Gordon, and Teahen. David is a decent leadoff hitter. No, he doesn't steal a bunch of bases, but, fortunately, it isn't 1975. If the latter two are hitting 6-7 or 7-8, the team is probably pretty damn good. Hell, Teahen might be a pretty decent #2 hitter. Anyway...

**** Glass and his I-don't-give-a-mother**** attitude, and **** Dayton Moore and his general incompetence.

P.S: several references today on 810 about Glass being spotted at an Astros or Rangers game. Awesome. **** the Royals. Long live Texas. **** you, David.

petegz28
07-13-2009, 01:05 PM
"One of the catchers." Those were Moore's exact words.

Look, I want us to re-sign DeJesus, Gordon, and Teahen. David is a decent leadoff hitter. No, he doesn't steal a bunch of bases, but, fortunately, it isn't 1975. If the latter two are hitting 6-7 or 7-8, the team is probably pretty damn good. Hell, Teahen might be a pretty decent #2 hitter. Anyway...

**** Glass and his I-don't-give-a-mother**** attitude, and **** Dayton Moore and his general incompetence.

P.S: several references today on 810 about Glass being spotted at an Astros or Rangers game. Awesome. **** the Royals. Long live Texas. **** you, David.

I wish the owners could run Glass out of the game. They don't like him. He is doing everything they said he would do with the Revenue Sharing $'s, which is sticking it in his pocket. His son is on record, though several years ago, at saying profit comes before anything else. I wish he would just sell the team to someone who wants to actually make us a winner.

KCUnited
07-13-2009, 01:06 PM
It was troubling listening to him talk about obp and how his staff knows how to build a winner, but we keep getting the same kind of guys. It just didn't jive.

Demonpenz
07-13-2009, 01:06 PM
Knock knock
who's there
Tug
Tug Who?
Tug Hewlett the dogs out? WOLF WOLF WOLF WOLF

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 01:07 PM
I wish the owners could run Glass out of the game. They don't like him. He is doing everything they said he would do with the Revenue Sharing $'s, which is sticking it in his pocket. His son is on recored, though several years ago, at saying profite comes before anything else. I wish he would just sell the team to someone who wants to actually make us a winner.

I hit this point several years ago, and then Moore was hired, and we were told things were changing. I wanted the team sold, and I didn't care if they left KC; it would always be my team, location be damned.

Maybe we'll be competitive with a great GM, but that's not Moore. Not close.

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 01:08 PM
It was troubling listening to him talk about obp and how his staff knows how to build a winner, but we keep getting the same kind of guys. It just didn't jive.

Moore says he "doesn't really understand" how statistics can be used to evaluate a player's defense.

I'm not shocked he doesn't understand anything else.

ChiTown
07-13-2009, 01:09 PM
It was troubling listening to him talk about obp and how his staff knows how to build a winner, but we keep getting the same kind of guys. It just didn't jive.

+1

His actions HAVE YET to show that he has a grasp on how to build a winner, other than the fact that they are pumping money into the ML system. That said, you don't fugging make strides "getting there" by continually signing guys that have no speed, short on defense, poor Baseball IQ and shit for OBP.

KCUnited
07-13-2009, 01:14 PM
Moore says he "doesn't really understand" how statistics can be used to evaluate a player's defense.

I'm not shocked he doesn't understand anything else.
Well its impossible to tell how hard that ball was hit. /D. Moore

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 01:16 PM
Moore has 2 years left at minimum, he better get on it quickly...i hope we still have arbuckle then so he can take over imo if the job isn't done by DM

BigRock
07-13-2009, 01:16 PM
I am done with this team. I will watch them on TV

It's rare to see a post so immediately contradict itself.

Re: the money, the writing should have been on the wall when Glass refused to up payroll enough for them to sign Hudson.

ChiTown
07-13-2009, 01:18 PM
It's rare to see a post so immediately contradict itself.

Come on.

I think you realize that he meant, "I'm done financially supporting this team by spending money on season tickets, but I'll follow them on TV."

petegz28
07-13-2009, 01:19 PM
It's rare to see a post so immediately contradict itself.

What is rare for you to ingore the rest of the sentence you parsed.

petegz28
07-13-2009, 01:20 PM
Come on.

I think you realize that he meant, "I'm done financially supporting this team by spending money on season tickets, but I'll follow them on TV."

Considering the rest of the sentence he parsed said "I will not be renewing my tickets"......

I won't say I am a more of a Royals fan than anyone els here, but I probably have the most vested financial interest and it pisses me off when people say shit like he did. I actually put up the money that could easily go towards a nice vacation for the wife and I for this bullshit team.

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 01:20 PM
Well its impossible to tell how hard that ball was hit. /D. Moore

That statement displays the level of stupidity that would make Moore a CP icon. Seriously.

Someone had to be giving him a blowjob under the desk to make him lose his fucking mind and make this statement. No one is this dumb. Right?

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 01:28 PM
Who knew DM was an idiot? Best young mind in baseball, who knew we'd possibly get a dud. I hope he keeps building the young talent cause he has nothing but stop gaps and AAAA players up here.

I am hardly financially invested on this team, i go to maybe 5-10 games a year, half the time its free. I love going to games win or lose, atleast pre-game is super fun tailgating but man it'd be nice to be a .500 team atleast!

KCUnited
07-13-2009, 01:39 PM
That statement displays the level of stupidity that would make Moore a CP icon. Seriously.

Someone had to be giving him a blowjob under the desk to make him lose his ****ing mind and make this statement. No one is this dumb. Right?
I think he was confused and thought he was talking to Twibell.

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 01:42 PM
Reminds me of when Herm said he didn't "know how to use an internet."

At that moment, any doubt about how ****ed we all were was completely obviated.

BigRock
07-13-2009, 01:50 PM
I think you realize that he meant, "I'm done financially supporting this team by spending money on season tickets, but I'll follow them on TV."

Yes, I do.

Likewise, you probably realize that I was merely commenting on the silliness of one declaring "I'M DONE WITH THIS TEAM" when that isn't actually what they mean.

What is rare for you to ingore the rest of the sentence you parsed.

I didn't ignore anything, Pete. I fully support your decision to stick it to the man by not renewing season tickets. But still watching the games and following the team means you aren't actually "done", thus making any delerations of done-ness somewhat fruitless.

WilliamTheIrish
07-13-2009, 03:08 PM
I understand where you're coming from, I do. That said, when you have to worry about the ability to re-sign middling talent like DeJesus and Teahen, WTF is the point?

I listened to that and thought: F me. I'm going out there this w/e and rip Jose Guillen and everybody in the bullpen. Gotta get my money's worth.

petegz28
07-13-2009, 03:21 PM
Yes, I do.

Likewise, you probably realize that I was merely commenting on the silliness of one declaring "I'M DONE WITH THIS TEAM" when that isn't actually what they mean.



I didn't ignore anything, Pete. I fully support your decision to stick it to the man by not renewing season tickets. But still watching the games and following the team means you aren't actually "done", thus making any delerations of done-ness somewhat fruitless.

Thus my clarification of my statement you left out of your reply.:rolleyes:

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 05:34 PM
Another thing with the interview that KK keeps bringing up was DM was being defensive....makes you kinda nervous. Maybe he needs a few days break to clear his head too?

Kyle DeLexus
07-13-2009, 05:36 PM
Anyone post this yet?

I Quit As A Royals Fan (Mad Lib)

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/profile_images/116617/4449607964906619f89045_bigger_tiny.gif by Porcus (http://www.royalsreview.com/users/Porcus) on Jul 11, 2009 3:53 PM EDT (http://www.royalsreview.com/2009/7/11/946005/i-quit-as-a-royals-fan-mad-lib) http://cdn3.sbnation.com/images/icons/comment.v1599.png 30 comments
After _______ (number) years as a _______ (ironic adjective, e.g. "die-hard") Royals (http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/teams/KAN) fan, this recent _______ (negative baseball event, e.g. "trade," "acquisition," "losing streak") has finally worn out my _______ (ironic term, e.g. "loyalty"). I have always been _______ (hilariously false term, e.g. "optimistic"), but this is too much.

The Royals' general manager, _______ (name of Royals general manager), obviously doesn't know anything about _______ (fundamental body of baseball knowledge). Every move he has made is wrong. _______ (most recent transaction) is the _______ (cliche such as "last straw").

_______'s (name of Royals manager) ineptitude continues to inspire _______ (synonym for "rage"). I mean, did you see _______ (trivial mistake in recent game)? Clearly he should have _______, _______, then _______ and _______ with _______, (impossible suggestion which likely would not have changed outcome) then the Royals would have won. He has cost the team _______ (number above 20) wins this year. He needs to go, and so does _______ (name of pitching coach or other coach).

_______, _______, _______, and _______ (names of current Royals players) can't _______, _______, or _______ (fundamental baseball skills). This is even worse than the era of _______, _______, and _______ (names of former Royals players). _______ (current player) is injured even more than _______ (Mike Sweeney (http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/players/568/Mike_Sweeney)).

_______ (ridiculous condition, e.g. "until the front office is replaced"), I am _______ (self-important adjective, e.g. "officially") done as a Royals fan. _______ (insincere apology), but I just can't take it anymore. _______ (final pretentious, attention-whoring statement).

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 05:52 PM
Was that Mad Lib an actual post of mine?

Plagiarism111311

petegz28
07-13-2009, 06:00 PM
Another thing with the interview that KK keeps bringing up was DM was being defensive....makes you kinda nervous. Maybe he needs a few days break to clear his head too?

This organization has shown time and time again they cannot handle the tough questions.

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 06:03 PM
Another thing with the interview that KK keeps bringing up was DM was being defensive....makes you kinda nervous. Maybe he needs a few days break to clear his head too?

The people in this front office have been around winning organizations. We know what a contending team is supposed to look like! /Dayton Baird as scans the stats for next year's FAs with the lowest OBP/

Kyle DeLexus
07-13-2009, 06:04 PM
Was that Mad Lib an actual post of mine?

Plagiarism111311

I credited my source.

Well it says who it's by.

Coach
07-13-2009, 06:09 PM
+1

His actions HAVE YET to show that he has a grasp on how to build a winner, other than the fact that they are pumping money into the ML system. That said, you don't fugging make strides "getting there" by continually signing guys that have no speed, short on defense, poor Baseball IQ and shit for OBP.

Well, he should had known this before making the acquistion of Jacobs, trading for Ryan Fucking Freel and Yuniesky I Suck Ass Betancourt.

These moves are not the type I expect Dayton to be making, salary constraints be damned.

petegz28
07-13-2009, 06:13 PM
Well, he should had known this before making the acquistion of Jacobs, trading for Ryan ****ing Freel and Yuniesky I Suck Ass Betancourt.

These moves are not the type I expect Dayton to be making, salary constraints be damned.

I would take 1 Scutaro over the 3 of them

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 06:18 PM
I would take 1 Scutaro over the 3 of them

For our ML payroll to be over $70M, we will need either to draw over 5 million fans or receive $200 million in revenue sharing. /David Glass/

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 06:32 PM
David Glass built the stadium, the problem is the fans still come and enjoy games. Maybe he'll take notice when no one is at the new park....he is a dogshit owner, i hope someone eventually takes over when he's gone cause its just a rotting nest.

KevB
07-13-2009, 06:40 PM
Decided to subject myself to the Dayton Moore interview ---- he starts off talking about Bettencourt. He actually said that two years ago Bettencourt was considered more highly regarded than Alex Gordon and Billy Butler. Seriously. Wow. I'll have to go back to my Baseball Prospectus from that year, but I find it incredibly hard to believe that he was more highly regarded than Alex freaking Gordon.

Coach
07-13-2009, 06:45 PM
Considering in 2008, Betancourt walked only 3.0% of the time, the worst percentage in Major League Baseball, and his strikeout rate is 7.5%.

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 06:47 PM
Decided to subject myself to the Dayton Moore interview

Yuck. Sorry.

It snuck up on me. I was just innocently driving to work. Surprised to hear Moore, and figured he'd primarily be defending the new acquisition. Didn't expect the A-bomb that he dropped about payroll and all the implicit whining and excuses.

It honestly ruined my morning.

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 06:50 PM
Decided to subject myself to the Dayton Moore interview ---- he starts off talking about Bettencourt. He actually said that two years ago Bettencourt was considered more highly regarded than Alex Gordon and Billy Butler. Seriously. Wow. I'll have to go back to my Baseball Prospectus from that year, but I find it incredibly hard to believe that he was more highly regarded than Alex freaking Gordon.

No shit, alex gordon was >***************

Coach
07-13-2009, 06:50 PM
But IIRC, Dayton said he would have not came to KC, if he wasn't assured of having a higher payroll, didn't he?

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 06:52 PM
Yuck. Sorry.

It snuck up on me. I was just innocently driving to work. Surprised to hear Moore, and figured he'd primarily be defending the new acquisition. Didn't expect the A-bomb that he dropped about payroll and all the implicit whining and excuses.

It honestly ruined my morning.
Well to be honest...

Our POS owner is scared now that the moves DM has made with his money hasn't done shit for the organization so now i expect him to be a penny pinching bitch. This team goes as our owner does, DM, Hillman, Baird etc will never be the ultimate problem, just the scapegoat. Our owner doesn't care about Kansas City Baseball....he needs to be called out big ****ing time. Show up to ONE fucking game, seriously you POS or sell it to someone

Coach
07-13-2009, 06:59 PM
Fuck David Glass and his family. He's been cutting corners and making untold millions for years and years. Forbes magazine estimated Glass' yearly profits from the Royals at $20 million. Jeez, and we wonder why we fucking suck?

Looks like we, the Royals fans, are very fucking lucky to have an owner willing to instantly slash the budget of the scouting department, willing to compromise the draft by selecting players based on "signability," willing to begin each year with a promise of a youth movement and a self-defeating pledge of playing .500 ball and willing to pocket millions of dollars in profit.

Real fucking lucky.

Coach
07-13-2009, 07:17 PM
2010 Royals - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/Change_We_Can_Believe_In.svg/162px-Change_We_Can_Believe_In.svg.png

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 07:27 PM
So far tonight in the 5th inning

Gordon 1-1 single 2 walks

Betancourt 0-3

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 08:05 PM
Betancourt now 1-4 with an opposite field HR we are saved!111111111111111

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 08:46 PM
betancourt finishes the night 1-5 with a HR and a good defensive play

gordon finishes 2-3 2 walks

doomy3
07-13-2009, 09:40 PM
I would take 1 Scutaro over the 3 of them

That's dumb.

Scutaro is nothing special. He is a 33 year old SS who will put up similar numbers as Betancourt. He has a .265 career average, and about the same OPS as Betancourt.

Why is he some sort of home run?

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 09:47 PM
According to the stats, he'd be a huge defensive upgrade over Betancourt. I have no idea the amount of money that Scutaro would command, however.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=fielding&linesToDisplay=50&orderBy=zone_rating&direction=DESC&qual_filter=1&season_filter

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 09:53 PM
Betancourt hit a HR tonight, wtf did scutaro do??! Ya thats right he's on the couch at home!111111111111

doomy3
07-13-2009, 09:56 PM
According to the stats, he'd be a huge defensive upgrade over Betancourt. I have no idea the amount of money that Scutaro would command, however.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=fielding&linesToDisplay=50&orderBy=zone_rating&direction=DESC&qual_filter=1&season_filter

Scutaro has always been a utility player, and I think this is the first year he even qualifies for those defensive stats you linked because he has always played a bunch of positions. This is the first year of his career (at age 33), he has ever had an everyday spot at one position.

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 09:56 PM
Betancourt hit a HR tonight, wtf did scutaro do??! Ya thats right he's on the couch at home!111111111111

Dayton, FTMFW.

sportsman1
07-13-2009, 09:56 PM
I'm going to wait and see on Betancourt. Anything is a upgrade over what we had. I know a few years back he was fairly well regarded.

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 09:57 PM
Scutaro has always been a utility player, and I think this is the first year he even qualifies for those defensive stats you linked because he has always played a bunch of positions. This is the first year of his career (at age 33), he has ever had an everyday spot at one position.

How in the **** would we not be able to afford this turkey, then?

Another utility player? Surprised Moore wasn't pining to add him to the roster.

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 09:58 PM
I'm going to wait and see on Betancourt. Anything is a upgrade over what we had. I know a few years back he was fairly well regarded.

I don't like to use "retarded" on this forum.

doomy3
07-13-2009, 09:58 PM
How in the **** would we not be able to afford this turkey, then?

Another utility player? Surprised Moore wasn't pining to add him to the roster.

I'm sure we can afford him. That's why it doesn't make sense some of the hype he is getting in this thread. He is a career .265 hitter with little power that has never been able to lock down a position until this year on the Blue Jays. And he's 33 years old.

I'm still waiting to hear why Pete would like to have him so bad.

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 10:00 PM
I'm sure we can afford him. That's why it doesn't make sense some of the hype he is getting in this thread. He is a career .265 hitter with little power that has never been able to lock down a position until this year on the Blue Jays. And he's 33 years old.

I'm still waiting to hear why Pete would like to have him so bad.

Not according to Dayton. Did you listen to the interview earlier today? Inking him would limit our ability to keep our other All-Stars.

petegz28
07-13-2009, 10:06 PM
That's dumb.

Scutaro is nothing special. He is a 33 year old SS who will put up similar numbers as Betancourt. He has a .265 career average, and about the same OPS as Betancourt.

Why is he some sort of home run?

I saying that figurativley of course. Nonetheless, I would take Scutaro over Bentencourt.

For one, I don't see the Blue Jays having players meetings about the bad attitude and such of Scutaro.

petegz28
07-13-2009, 10:09 PM
I'm sure we can afford him. That's why it doesn't make sense some of the hype he is getting in this thread. He is a career .265 hitter with little power that has never been able to lock down a position until this year on the Blue Jays. And he's 33 years old.

I'm still waiting to hear why Pete would like to have him so bad.

Obviously we cannot afford him. And I would still take Scutaro over Bentencourt and Jacobs at this point. And whoever else Dayton said we would not be able to keep if we signed him.

sportsman1
07-13-2009, 10:13 PM
I would take scutaro over betencourt, and Jacobs too. But I would most definitely take Betencourt, and Jacobs over TPJ.

Not according to Dayton. Did you listen to the interview earlier today? Inking him would limit our ability to keep our other All-Stars.

LMAO what other allstars?

DeezNutz
07-13-2009, 10:16 PM
I would take scutaro over betencourt, and Jacobs too. But I would most definitely take Betencourt, and Jacobs over TPJ.


This sounds crazy, but I wouldn't; TPJ makes far less.

All three are completely worthless, so why not take the less expensive option, the cheaper shit sandwich?

KevB
07-13-2009, 10:18 PM
betancourt finishes the night 1-5 with a HR and a good defensive play

gordon finishes 2-3 2 walks

Damn those pesky walks. Go ahead and get that out of your system. I can't wait until we have our star-studded left side of the infield with Gordon/Betancourt. Two of the most highly regarded players in baseball ------ 2 years ago.

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 10:38 PM
Gordon i think has 12 walks in like 34 ab's in AA...crazy OPS...im trying to find something positive and hope the time off has helped him in a way.

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 10:39 PM
Damn those pesky walks. Go ahead and get that out of your system. I can't wait until we have our star-studded left side of the infield with Gordon/Betancourt. Two of the most highly regarded players in baseball ------ 2 years ago.

According to DM Betancourt was even higher rankde than gordonROFL

Mecca
07-13-2009, 11:00 PM
If I was an owner and agreed to double my payroll for a GM and didn't see any improvement from it I'd think "fuck this I'm just wasting my money".

Kyle DeLexus
07-13-2009, 11:42 PM
Fuck David Glass and his family. He's been cutting corners and making untold millions for years and years. Forbes magazine estimated Glass' yearly profits from the Royals at $20 million. Jeez, and we wonder why we fucking suck?

Looks like we, the Royals fans, are very fucking lucky to have an owner willing to instantly slash the budget of the scouting department, willing to compromise the draft by selecting players based on "signability," willing to begin each year with a promise of a youth movement and a self-defeating pledge of playing .500 ball and willing to pocket millions of dollars in profit.

Real fucking lucky.

We need the Cubes! Mark Cuban would turn us around!

Reaper16
07-13-2009, 11:51 PM
We need the Cubes! Mark Cuban would turn us around!
Sure. Fuck, I'd give the franchise over to the "Can I get a down payment on a Cheeseburger?" guy.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 12:01 AM
I think it's been proven now Dayton Moore is every bit as bad if not worse than Baird, he's allowed to spend more money and he's not getting any better results.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 12:05 AM
I think it's been proven now Dayton Moore is every bit as bad if not worse than Baird, he's allowed to spend more money and he's not getting any better results.
He's significantly better than Baird with reshaping how the organization does work in the minors and internationally. But with respect to building the major league club, you have a point.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 12:09 AM
He's significantly better than Baird with reshaping how the organization does work in the minors and internationally. But with respect to building the major league club, you have a point.

We'll see if those changes in the minors pay dividends but as of right now the best player on the Royals roster was drafted by Baird.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 12:12 AM
We'll see if those changes in the minors pay dividends but as of right now the best player on the Royals roster was drafted by Baird.
That makes sense to me. There shouldn't be an expectation for any of Moore's picks to be at the major league level yet anyway.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 12:15 AM
Don't feel too bad, guys. I'm a Jays fan. There is no more unfortunate situation than the one I'm stuck in. Try to imagine what trading Zach Greinke would feel like after he dominated baseball for 8 years. That's what I'm feeling right now. After lying to us for over a year about 2010 being a contending year, our owners have pulled the plug and decided to cut payroll down to 60-70M. Because of terrible contracts given out to Vernon Wells and BJ Ryan, this payroll slashing has resulted in the best pitcher in baseball and the city's favorite player being put on the trade block (though for a year they had said we would re-sign him). We've went from a possible contender next year to...well I don't even know what we are doing...we aren't even rebuilding. And it comes at a time when some of this current administration's draft picks were actually starting to make a difference. Basically, the owners have ****ed over the fans again. Just like the Royals, it's clear that they only care about making a profit, and not building a winning baseball team.

In addition, we also play in the AL East. That means unless the Jays produce a top 2 team in baseball, they won't make the playoffs (they were probably a top 5 team last year, but it didn't get them anywhere with the Red Sox, Yankees, and Rays in the division). So is rebuilding really going to do anything unless they do it perfectly? I think I'd rather wallow in mediocrity with Roy Halladay than without him.

Rant over....but let's just say that you guys aren't the only ones being ****ed over by the poor owners in this league. But of course my team isn't also making trades for terrible players like Mike Jacobs and Yhency Betancourt and signing guys like Jose Guillen and Kyle Farnsworth to overpriced deals....I'd probably be losing my mind and giving up on the team if Ricciardi did that.

Anyway, in regard to Halladay getting the AS start...well I think he kind of deserves it when you consider he's probably been the best pitcher in baseball over the last few years and has never gotten the start (he was hit by a line drive that broke his leg in 2005 three days before the All-Star break during his best season). Greinke deserves it too, though, with his great numbers. Both will be frontrunners for the Cy Young (if Halladay stays, of course).

And Scutaro...well he's a great defensive SS, but he's also 34 years old and likely to be a Type A free agent based on what he's done this year. That means the team signing him will have to give up the team their 1st round pick. Is that worth it for a team like the Royals? I'd prefer that the Jays not re-sign him, even though they have no in-house replacement. I expect him to regress and don't think the decent-sized contract would be worth it.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 12:15 AM
That makes sense to me. There shouldn't be an expectation for any of Moore's picks to be at the major league level yet anyway.

If you look over some of these moves, the trades especially Moore isn't on the winning side.

I know we say that but we passed on Lincecum for Hochevar...Gordon Beckham is up already...

Maybe Moore wins the Hosmer thing I'm not going to jump up and down about that but so far his track record is not shining.

Sure-Oz
07-14-2009, 07:27 AM
I sure as hell hope Hosmer doesn't turn out to be Casey Kotchman like they said when he was drafted. Dude sucks

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 10:55 AM
Petro doesn't believe that the Royals employ a couple of sabermetricians, as Moore claims. If the organization did, why don't these two have names? Soren argues that the team probably has two guys on staff, with various titles, that occasionally crunch some numbers. I agree. That's how you make stupid decisions like acquiring a Betancourt.

Petro also made a couple of good points regarding the Royals draft philosophy, saying it's a mistake to take high school, high-upside guys unless you're equiped with the type of payroll to buy your way out of the misses that are bound to occur.

This point makes a lot of sense. We don't have the payroll to miss completely. As a point of contrast, look at someone like Alex Gordon. Many might label him a "miss" b/c he's never reached the level most thought he would. Ok. But even though he's been disappointing, he's still a very productive ML player, so it's not anywhere close to a total loss.

With cash strapped franchises, high school players shouldn't be selected early (round 1) unless they're rare talents, think Upton, A-Rod, Griffey, etc.

Under this approach, you always take a Wieters instead of a Moosetacos, a Justin Smoak, Gordon Beckham, or Yonder Alonso instead of a Hosmer.

Makes sense to me.

Oh, and I never select a guy who sat out a year. We haven't even signed him yet, but I'm going on record as saying that Crow was and is another failed move by Moore.

Dr. Facebook Fever
07-14-2009, 11:03 AM
Petro doesn't believe that the Royals employ a couple of sabermetricians, as Moore claims. If the organization did, why don't these two have names? Soren argues that the team probably has two guys on staff, with various titles, that occasionally crunch some numbers. I agree. That's how you make stupid decisions like acquiring a Betancourt.

Petro also made a couple of good points regarding the Royals draft philosophy, saying it's a mistake to take high school, high-upside guys unless you're equiped with the type of payroll to buy your way out of the misses that are bound to occur.

This point makes a lot of sense. We don't have the payroll to miss completely. As a point of contrast, look at someone like Alex Gordon. Many might label him a "miss" b/c he's never reached the level most thought he would. Ok. But even though he's been disappointing, he's still a very productive ML player, so it's not anywhere close to a total loss.

With cash strapped franchises, high school players shouldn't be selected early (round 1) unless they're rare talents, think Upton, A-Rod, Griffey, etc.

Under this approach, you always take a Wieters instead of a Moosetacos, a Justin Smoak, Gordon Beckham, or Yonder Alonso instead of a Hosmer.

Makes sense to me.

Oh, and I never select a guy who sat out a year. We haven't even signed him yet, but I'm going on record as saying that Crow was and is another failed move by Moore.

Both interesting and informative. I'll even add thought provoking.

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 11:17 AM
Jayson Stark on Betancourt's approach at the plate: Laughter. He fucking laughed.

Dr. Facebook Fever
07-14-2009, 01:57 PM
Jayson Stark on Betancourt's approach at the plate: Laughter. He ****ing laughed.

I may be wrong here but isn't his career batting average around .280? That's not bad.

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 02:20 PM
I may be wrong here but isn't his career batting average around .280? That's not bad.

Over 5 seasons (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/betanyu01.shtml):

.279/.302/.393
OPS+ 84
70 BB
186 SO

On the Scout board, someone posted that thus far in 11 ABs in AA, Betancourt has seen a total of 31 pitches. Motherfuck.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 02:29 PM
I may be wrong here but isn't his career batting average around .280? That's not bad.
huuuuuuurrrrgghh

ChiTown
07-14-2009, 02:35 PM
Over 5 seasons (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/betanyu01.shtml):

.279/.302/.393
OPS+ 84
70 BB
186 SO

On the Scout board, someone posted that thus far in 11 ABs in AA, Betancourt has seen a total of 31 pitches. Mother****.

Betancourt, plate discipline be thy name:D

Sure-Oz
07-14-2009, 02:43 PM
but he hit a HR yesterday

i also saw on gamecast he was up 2-0 and swung the next pitch to pop out

ChiTown
07-14-2009, 02:47 PM
but he hit a HR yesterday

i also saw on gamecast he was up 2-0 and swung the next pitch to pop out

Get used to that. That will be a staple in his AB's.

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 10:54 PM
Help for Dayton from the Star blog (http://uponfurtherreview.kansascity.com/?q=node/1247):

Explaining the defensive stats to Dayton Moore

Does Dayton listen to his stat guys?Does Dayton listen to his stat guys?On the recommendation of a co-worker, I listened to Dayton Moore's interview yesterday morning on the Border Patrol. There are a lot of things there that I could pick apart, but I've already said my piece on the Betancourt trade. I do, however, want to respond to Dayton's comments about defensive statistics. First off, he claimed to not "understand" the newer metrics. Some have taken that to mean that these new-fangled stat thingies are over Moore's head. That's simply not the case. Look, Dayton Moore is an extremely smart individual. I have had multiple extended conversations with him, with no one else in the room and off the record. I can and will vouch for his intelligence and, to paraphrase Bobby Knight, Moore forgets more about baseball every day than I will probably ever know. But even smart people have holes in their knowledge and it's about time that Dayton Moore recognizes his shortcomings as a big-league general manager. And I still believe that he can become a very good one. He may be already -- until we know how his drafts have panned out, we won't know for sure.

Lest you think I'm contradicting myself here, let me reiterate that just because I still believe in Moore's potential doesn't mean that I am now defending moves that I have previously criticized. I'm certainly not backtracking on my condemnation of the Yuniesky Betancourt deal. I have a 99% certainty that Betancourt will never pan out to be an above-average big-league shortstop. Yes, the numbers are sometimes wrong, or at least misleading when read out of context. But they are rarely that wrong, no matter how you spin the context wheel.

Moore clearly does not have an adequate grasp of the statistical side of the game. It's not a question of intelligence or comprehension -- it's a question of philosophy. He was reared in the baseball community to function in a certain way and even though he openly invites new ideas and opinions in his organization, I am certain that he does not give the objective side of the game the weight it deserves. He said in the aforementioned interview that he has two sabermetricians on staff. I don't know who these people are. Really, I don't. Several e-mailers have asked me that question. A couple of have even accused me of being one of them. (To which I say again: I am a writer who has a fondness for and who uses a lot of statistics. I am not a statistician, sabermetrician or any other kind of -ician.)

Having stat guys on your staff is fine, but that and 75 cents will get you a candy bar if you don't believe what they tell you. Either his stat people are woefully incompetent or Moore isn't giving the statistical side of the game its due. Otherwise, there is no way in hell he makes the Betancourt trade. As Rany Jazeryli has pointed out, there are probably 10 shortstops in Class AAA right now better than Betancourt. If you're willing to part with a quality prospect like Dan Cortes, then surely you could have landed one of those. That's a stopgap solution that makes sense and costs you zero in terms of payroll flexibility. (This of course assumes that the Royals soured on Cortes as a prospect.)

Besides, having two sabermetricians is not enough. The Royals should have a fully-staffed statistical research and analysis department. There should be at least four people in that department: one specialist each in hitting, pitching and fielding. Plus one supervisor that not only directs the tasks of his underlings, but represents and translates the findings of the staff at internal meetings with Moore and his staff. He's got to be an aggressive sort, willing to go toe-to-toe with the so-called baseball lifers.

Anyway, back to Moore's comments about defensive statistics. He expressed concern about the shortcomings of the metrics, but those shortcomings are overblown. He mentioned positioning (twice), speed of the batted ball and where pitchers throw the ball. The first and the last of those items is true. The two best metrics out there right now (UZR and Plus/Minus), don't account for these things. The second item is accounted for.

On positioning -- I find it hard to believe that it varies all that much from team to team. Because URZ and Plus/Minus measure players relative to each other, any errors related to positioning would be present for all players. And as for pitch location .... he's saying that when a pitcher misses his location, then it crosses up the defense. I just don't buy that as a significant shortcoming in defensive analysis. For one, it flies in the face of what research has told us about how much control pitchers really have over batted balls in play.

Baseball Info Solutions has a staff of video analysts whose job is to methodically chart every single batted ball in every single big-league game. No scout puts that much time and effort into evaluating defense. Are these systems absolutely perfect? No, but they are as good as we can get right now given available technology and they are giving us better information on defense than at any point in the history of baseball. It's virtually impossible that advanced defensive analysis is wrong about Yuniesky Betancourt. There is a consensus among all the different systems that says he's among the worst, if not the worst, defensive shortstop in the game. And he is trending downward. To declare Betancourt as a plus defender simply is not within the margin of error for these systems.

Someone should have convinced Moore of that fact.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 10:58 PM
Moore just isn't that good of a GM..the Wieters thing hurts because we haven't had a productive catcher since well..ever.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 11:18 PM
Moore just isn't that good of a GM..the Wieters thing hurts because we haven't had a productive catcher since well..ever.
I have to think that Glass is still restricting how much money his GM can spend on signing bonuses. Weiters wasn't drafted because he was going to ask for a shitton of money. If Andrew Miller wasn't asking for a shitton of money, maybe Muzzy Jackson (interim GM at the time) would have taken him and not Hochevar. Porcello fell to 27 because he was desirous of a shitton of money, etc.

WoodDraw
07-15-2009, 01:07 AM
I have to think that Glass is still restricting how much money his GM can spend on signing bonuses. Weiters wasn't drafted because he was going to ask for a shitton of money. If Andrew Miller wasn't asking for a shitton of money, maybe Muzzy Jackson (interim GM at the time) would have taken him and not Hochevar. Porcello fell to 27 because he was desirous of a shitton of money, etc.

This is just not right. You can say a lot of things about the Royals, but we spend more on the draft then most teams. Some of that comes from our draft position, but not all if it.

I have no problem with any of our draft picks, and I'm as critical of the Royals as anyone. I would have picked someone different at some points, but DM has taken a ligitmate, money be damned pick with every pick he has had so far.

DM's biggest problems has been with free agents and trades. He has done a good job with our farm system, but he continues to handicap us with terrible contracts and trades.

tk13
07-15-2009, 01:31 AM
We spent more money than anyone in the entire history of professional baseball on the draft last year. We obviously aren't always doing everything right but people say dumb things when they're frustrated and we're losing.

DeezNutz
07-15-2009, 06:02 AM
Money was absolutely a reason to dissuade the selection of Wieters and Porcello, and Moore essentially said as much in an interview after the Moosetacos draft.

Yes, collectively we spent a ton of money. But Moore noted that there is still a budget going into the draft, and spending the vast majority of the resources on a single player would probably not be in the best interest of this franchise, given the amount of holes and depleted nature of the farm system.

I remember Petro asking if one day Moore could envision blowing most of the budget--the $8M that guys like Wieters and Porcello was asking for--on a special talent, and he said potentially, but that we weren't at that point yet.

Money was a concern. Doesn't mean that the Royals were "cheap" in the draft by any means.

ChiTown
07-15-2009, 07:22 AM
ROFL at Greinke's ASG quote:

And the Royals’ ace pitcher is hoping to get cussed by the President.

“Because none of the White Sox guys like me,” Greinke says. “So I was hoping that he’d recognize me, and be like, ‘You punk, I hate you.’ But he didn’t do that.”

Instead, Greinke played it nice, telling Obama that White Sox outfielder Jermaine Dye should’ve made the All-Star team. Greinke thinks Obama agreed, though he isn’t sure.

That kid is a friggin hootROFL

Sure-Oz
07-15-2009, 07:26 AM
ROFL at Greinke's ASG quote:

And the Royals’ ace pitcher is hoping to get cussed by the President.

“Because none of the White Sox guys like me,” Greinke says. “So I was hoping that he’d recognize me, and be like, ‘You punk, I hate you.’ But he didn’t do that.”

Instead, Greinke played it nice, telling Obama that White Sox outfielder Jermaine Dye should’ve made the All-Star team. Greinke thinks Obama agreed, though he isn’t sure.

That kid is a friggin hootROFL

his grin is priceless honestly...

i am curious what him and youkilous were talking about

ChiTown
07-15-2009, 07:36 AM
his grin is priceless honestly...

i am curious what him and youkilous were talking about

Greinke: Do you like flowers?

Youkilis: WTF?

Greinke: Did you see Obama?

Youkilis: Uh, yeah dude, I was right next to you when we all shook his hand.

Greinke: Yeah, I wonder if he likes DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince

Youkilis: Are you serious?

Greinke: Dude, do you have satellite radio?

Youlilis: Yeah, like about a decade ago.

Greinke: A decade? Dude, that's like 10 years ago!

Youkilis: OK, I'm going to go over here and see if I can understand Mariano Rivera better than I can understand you.

Greinke: I once spent a week at the Riviera Hotel.............

Youkilis (walking away): geezusfknkrist....

Sure-Oz
07-15-2009, 11:11 AM
David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution has the latest on the Braves. Here are the details:

They're taking calls from teams interested in Yunel Escobar.

Oh really now?!!

Reaper16
07-15-2009, 11:20 AM
David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution has the latest on the Braves. Here are the details:

They're taking calls from teams interested in Yunel Escobar.

Oh really now?!!
Oh, fuckity fuck fuck fucinking fook.

They're probably asking too much, anyway. /sigh

DeezNutz
07-15-2009, 11:28 AM
Chill out, folks. Betancourt is a much better option...

in terms of keeping money in Glass's pocket and continuing to ensure a circus-like atmosphere in our infield and a lack of discipline amongst all Royals hitters.

doomy3
07-15-2009, 11:30 AM
David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution has the latest on the Braves. Here are the details:

They're taking calls from teams interested in Yunel Escobar.

Oh really now?!!

I figured this would happen.

DeezNutz
07-15-2009, 11:33 AM
David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution has the latest on the Braves. Here are the details:

They're taking calls from teams interested in Yunel Escobar.

Oh really now?!!

I'd still look to acquire this player.

Getting a front-line SS would be worth pissing away Cortes and the Betancourt money, in addition to what you'd have to give up to get Escobar.

Reaper16
07-15-2009, 11:35 AM
I'd still look to acquire this player.

Getting a front-line SS would be worth pissing away Cortes and the Betancourt money, in addition to what you'd have to give up to get Escobar.
Yeah. DM needs to look into this one, big time. Use every Braves connect that he has. Lie if he must.

ChiTown
07-15-2009, 11:37 AM
David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution has the latest on the Braves. Here are the details:

They're taking calls from teams interested in Yunel Escobar.

Oh really now?!!

Escobar's OBP is too high. We need a player who's got the right "Royal's Intangibles". /Dayton Moore

DeezNutz
07-15-2009, 11:45 AM
Escobar's OBP is too high. We need a player who's got the right "Royal's Intangibles". /Dayton Moore

Signing Escobar would prevent us from retaining other top talent, like Jacobs or Olivo. /Dayton/

Sure-Oz
07-15-2009, 12:00 PM
Include betancourt on a deal to them hell include wtf you can at this point to get a guy like that....

we all know we wont go after him though

CoMoChief
07-15-2009, 12:18 PM
You have to pay to play in this league.

That's all there is to it. If you want the top tier level guys you have to pay a lot to get them. You have to pay to keep the top level draft picks, and also have to pay to keep them should they blossom into good players like Beltran, Damon and Dye did.

If you don't have any horses in the stable you aren't going to win shit.

WilliamTheIrish
07-15-2009, 12:35 PM
You have to pay to play in this league.

That's all there is to it. If you want the top tier level guys you have to pay a lot to get them. You have to pay to keep the top level draft picks, and also have to pay to keep them should they blossom into good players like Beltran, Damon and Dye did.

If you don't have any horses in the stable you aren't going to win shit.

No kidding? Really? Did you write MoneyBall?

DeezNutz
07-15-2009, 12:42 PM
No kidding? Really? Did you write MoneyBall?

Raises a good point.

This isn't the Dayton Moore approach. Drafting HS, high-upside guys, who will also be very, very expensive should they develop, seems antithetical for a franchise operating on a lesser budget. And this was part of what I was getting at with an earlier post in this thread, advocating advanced college players, excluding those that sit out b/c a team isn't willing to make them sufficiently wealthy.

ChiTown
07-15-2009, 02:48 PM
http://www.ranyontheroyals.com/

Fkg wow!

Long blog post, but well worth the read. Of course, I feel like slitting my wrists after that "uplifting read", but still worth it.

Gotta say, I feel exactly as he does. My emotional currency, as it relates to the Royals, sits at zero. I will watch with some interest, but I won't start "caring" until they can put together a team of people that know WTF they are doing.

Reaper16
07-15-2009, 02:50 PM
Oh my God! They killed Rany! You bastards!

Sure-Oz
07-15-2009, 03:11 PM
NOOOOOooOooOoO Rany!1111111

I'm still a big royals fan, always will be...im doomed

DeezNutz
07-15-2009, 06:31 PM
Good to know I'm not alone in having the feelings that Rany expresses.

I stated in an earlier post in this thread (I believe) that I've been feeling more passionate about the team than the people running it. And in this type of situation, the problem is definitely my own, my own stupidity.

Cheers, Rany. Look forward to seeing you around the water cooler from time to time.

Sure-Oz
07-15-2009, 06:51 PM
Good to know I'm not alone in having the feelings that Rany expresses.

I stated in an earlier post in this thread (I believe) that I've been feeling more passionate about the team than the people running it. And in this type of situation, the problem is definitely my own, my own stupidity.

Cheers, Rany. Look forward to seeing you around the water cooler from time to time.
the funny thing is when they won it all i was fucking watching heman cartoons and didnt give a shit at 6 years old

Sure-Oz
07-15-2009, 06:52 PM
btw i read somewhere that the braves are open about escobar but it will take a matt holliday type player to pry him loose, probably why dayton hasnt gotten him

DeezNutz
07-15-2009, 06:56 PM
btw i read somewhere that the braves are open about betancourt but it will take a matt holliday type player to pry him loose, probably why dayton hasnt gotten him

ROFL

Wishful thinking, dude.

Sure-Oz
07-15-2009, 06:58 PM
ROFL

Wishful thinking, dude.

ROFL what a bad typo

Sure-Oz
07-15-2009, 07:02 PM
ROFL

Wishful thinking, dude.

You know what? if i had typed "ROYALS" instead of braves, that would've been believable.:doh!:

DeezNutz
07-15-2009, 07:12 PM
You know what? if i had typed "ROYALS" instead of braves, that would've been believable.:doh!:

Remember when Baird was absolutely in love with Austin Kearns? Well, we've found Dayton's version.

Coach
07-15-2009, 07:34 PM
Tony Pena is hitting .156/.178/.192. Read that again: .156/.178/.192. His OPS+ is exactly 0.

:doh!:

Mecca
07-15-2009, 07:47 PM
Signing Escobar would prevent us from retaining other top talent, like Jacobs or Olivo. /Dayton/

That was one of the funniest things I had ever heard anyone say, acting like scrubs are top priority.

sedated
07-15-2009, 07:48 PM
btw i read somewhere that the braves are open about escobar but it will take a matt holliday type player to pry him loose, probably why dayton hasnt gotten him

who wouldn't you trade for Escobar? (assuming "we" didn't have a hardon for Betancourt)

Butler?
Gordon?
Meche?
Teahen and DDJ?

(just asking)

DeezNutz
07-15-2009, 08:04 PM
who wouldn't you trade for Escobar? (assuming "we" didn't have a hardon for Betancourt)

Butler?
Gordon?
Meche?
Teahen and DDJ?

(just asking)

Greinke. List over.

Yes, I'd trade Soria for a front-line SS.

DeezNutz
07-15-2009, 08:06 PM
That was one of the funniest things I had ever heard anyone say, acting like scrubs are top priority.

I was in the car by myself when I heard him say this, and it, literally, made me cuss out loud. And then the sickening feeling set in...the realization of many more years of suck.

sedated
07-15-2009, 08:12 PM
Greinke. List over.

Yes, I'd trade Soria for a front-line SS.

no shit?

I don't know a ton about Escobar, but I didn't know he was worth THAT.

IMO, "Holliday-type" doesn't mean one of the best closers in baseball. It just means an overrated bat.

DeezNutz
07-15-2009, 09:03 PM
IMO, "Holliday-type" doesn't mean one of the best closers in baseball. It just means an overrated bat.

LMAO

Well, in that case, Dayton should be fielding lots of calls because we're well stocked on that front.

Sure-Oz
07-15-2009, 09:57 PM
who wouldn't you trade for Escobar? (assuming "we" didn't have a hardon for Betancourt)

Butler?
Gordon?
Meche?
Teahen and DDJ?

(just asking)

Id deal anyone but zack, soria and gordon, imo...but just cause i still have some stupid ass hope that gordon will amount to shit still

Sure-Oz
07-16-2009, 07:27 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/royals/story/1327535.html

Royals’ brass still focused on this season
By BOB DUTTON
The Kansas City Star
Royals owner David Glass attended the four games last weekend in Boston that concluded the club’s prebreak schedule.

So, yes, he knows.

That series at Fenway Park offered a condensed view of the season to date: An encouraging start, a comeback victory, a glow that quickly faded when followed by three days of abject misery.

Two shutout losses — this club really struggles to score — sandwiched a third loss that included a deplorable array of on-field mistakes, which produced a nine-run deficit and effectively sabotaged a rare offensive awakening.

Ask him what he thinks, and Glass gathers himself for a moment before carefully choosing his words.

“All of us expected to be in a little better position right now than we are,” he begins. “And you can’t blame injuries, but when you lose your center fielder and you lose your shortstop and your third baseman — when you’re as thin as we are — it hurts.

“We just don’t have the depth that the big-market teams do.”

Glass pauses and gathers himself again. He knows that excuse, however valid, doesn’t wash with a fan base tortured by 15 years of relentless losing and feeling doubly betrayed after daring to believe this season would be different.

“I can separate it,” he says. “I understand what the injuries have done because I’ve been watching this stuff since 1946. But I refuse to let anybody talk about it.

“If you ever use injuries as an excuse, then every team in baseball has an excuse because they all have injuries. Some of us have more than others. Look at the Mets. …”

But Kansas City doesn’t care about the Mets, and Glass knows that, too. So even though he believes his club was “on the right track” before the injuries, he understands the growing frustration because, he insists, he shares it.

The Royals are 37-51 as they resume play Friday against reigning American League champion Tampa Bay in the start of a nine-game homestand at Kauffman Stadium.

That record, as bad as it is, camouflages an 18-11 start that had the Royals atop the AL Central by three games on the morning of May 8. They have 40 losses in their last 59 games and find themselves trailing first-place Detroit by 11½ games.

The four games in Boston reinforced a growing belief the Royals are in a free fall that, unless reversed, could return them to the sort of ignominy that they, and their fans, had not believed — and still don’t want to believe — to be possible.

In short, the Royals have 74 games remaining and must go 26-48 or better to avoid another 100-loss season. Consider also that the schedule is about to get a lot tougher: Just 16 games remain against teams with losing records.

All of this prompts the key question: What comes next?

“What you do is improve the team,” Glass says. “None of us are happy with what we have or where we are. What you do to let the fans know you’re as frustrated as they are is you keep improving the team. And that’s what we’re going to do.”

•••

It is that mandate that explains why the Royals, for all of their problems, choose not to put themselves in a “sell” mode as the calendar moves toward the July 31 nonwaiver trading deadline.

Just the opposite.

General manager Dayton Moore sought to address the roster’s two biggest needs in the week before the All-Star Game by acquiring shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt from Seattle and outfielder Ryan Freel from the Chicago Cubs.

Whether either move makes the Royals a better team is a matter of considerable debate.

Many scouts contend that Freel’s skills have atrophied at age 33 after a series of injuries over the last two years. But the risk is small since the Royals are paying only a prorated portion of the big-league minimum in addition to surrendering a nonroster player at some future point.

“He’s always been a maximum-effort guy who got everything from what he had,” one scout says. “The question is how much does he have left if he loses any speed after all of his hamstring problems?”

Criticism of the Betancourt deal, for two minor-league pitchers, has been particularly savage, all the more so because the Royals added roughly $7 million in salary over the next 2½ years.

“He’s a huge upgrade on what we have,” Moore counters, “and what is potentially available in the free-agent market.”

Critics characterize Betancourt, 27, as a player whose offensive and defensive skills have declined to such a level that, in the words of ESPN analyst Keith Law, he “might very well be the worst everyday player in the majors.”

The Royals, in contrast, see Betancourt as still possessing the potential to be a superior defensive player while also providing a genuine offensive boost. They also contend that concerns regarding his suspect attitude, which wore increasingly thin in Seattle, are overblown.

“He’s one of those wild horses,” Moore says. “If you can get him tamed, you’ve got a chance to win the race.”

In this, several Royals who played previously with Betancourt agree.

“I don’t know what happened over there,” outfielder José Guillen says. “But he’s a good kid. They say he didn’t listen over there? That’s weird. I think he’ll listen here.”

Betancourt was nursing a sore right hamstring when the trade occurred and spent the last few days on a rehab assignment at Class AA Northwest Arkansas. He is expected to be activated in time for Friday’s game against the Rays.

Even club officials acknowledge that the need for a reliable shortstop fueled the deal. Mike Aviles underwent reconstructive-elbow surgery earlier this month, which typically carries a recovery period of nine to 12 months for nonpitchers.

The minor-league system has no shortstop who projects as major-league-ready before 2011. The most advanced is Jeff Bianchi, a second-round pick in 2005 who reestablished himself this year after several injury-filled seasons. But he was only recently promoted to Class AA.

The projected free-agent market is thin for shortstops and likely to get pricey. The $7 million in obligations to Betancourt over the next 2½ years is $7 million too much in the worst-case scenario — but it remains relatively absorbable in a payroll unlikely to rise significantly next season from its current $70 million.

“You can see why they did it,” a rival club official says. “That doesn’t mean they should have done it. I’d hate to be the guy whose job is on the line for that recommendation.”

•••

Ultimately, of course, it will be Moore’s job at risk if his organizational overhaul, now at three-plus years, fails to produce results. So the question goes to him:

What comes next?

“We’re not going to talk about rebuilding,” he emphasizes. “We’re going to put the best team we can on the field each night.

“If this team does not compete to win the Central, then we have to analyze this group of players and evaluate it and weigh it against other opportunities that we have in making sure we get better.”

Moore remains convinced that the Royals, despite this season’s disappointment, possess the core group of a playoff contender.

“You’re not going to see us unloading Gil Meche and Zack Greinke and Joakim Soria and Alex Gordon and Billy Butler,” he vows. “You’re not going to see us doing that. You’re just not.

“Now, we always have to be open-minded to any potential trade that improves our team so much that we can’t afford to walk away. Nobody is untouchable. But you’re not going to see us unloading players. We’re not (dumping) salary. We’re not going down that trail.”

Moore won’t confirm it, but the Royals are open to moving Mark Teahen and David DeJesus — but for ready-now pieces; not, say, for a couple of Class A prospects. Lots of teams are scouting both players.

The next two weeks could get interesting.

The Royals’ chief need is a speedy center fielder with defensive skills who can serve as an igniter atop their lineup. In other words, they want a replacement for Coco Crisp, whose status is suspect because of major operations on both shoulders.

Crisp now seems a long shot to be ready for the start of next season, which makes it virtually certain the Royals will exercise their $500,000 buyout on their $8 million option for 2010.

Club officials are open to negotiating a new deal with Crisp, who turns 30 in November, if he is receptive to a low guarantee with substantial performance bonuses. Either way, they want a reliable alternative to roam the spacious acreage that is center field at Kauffman Stadium.

The likeliest way to do that is through a trade.

Any search, in fact, for immediate help — meaning through next season — is likely to come through trades because the Royals have few legitimate prospects at the upper levels of their minor-league system.

Moore has, since arriving, pumped funding into the lifeblood areas of scouting and player development, but an emphasis on high school talent (and a beefed-up Latin program) slows the process. Most of the organization’s top prospects are laboring at the lower levels.

Free-agent spending this winter also figures to be limited.

The Royals already have more than $51 million committed in salary guarantees next season to nine players: Greinke, Meche, DeJesus, Betancourt, Soria, Guillen, Kyle Farnsworth, Juan Cruz and Willie Bloomquist.

Part of Betancourt’s attractiveness was his relatively low salary as an everyday shortstop. (And again, yes, any price is too high if he proves to be a complete bust.)

Now consider other parts of the club’s financial puzzle:

The Royals hold a $3.25 million mutual option on Miguel Olivo and face arbitration cases with Teahen ($3.575 million), Mike Jacobs ($3.25 million), John Buck ($2.9 million), Brian Bannister ($1.7375 million), Kyle Davies ($1.3 million) and John Bale ($1.2 million).

Gordon reaches eligibility for arbitration after this season, and Alberto Callaspo could qualify as a “Super Two,” (meaning he has less than three years’ service in the majors).

The bottom line is the Royals, even in exercising the buyout on Crisp, possess scant financial wiggle room to pursue a high-impact free agent unless they nontender some (maybe several) arbitration-eligible players or pull off a salary-dumping trade (or trades).

All of which means the Royals, as currently constituted, are likely to be the Royals of the foreseeable future.

They will rely on their rotation, which has 46 “quality starts” through the season’s first 88 games, and a bullpen headed by a proven closer in Soria. They will hope Butler and Gordon, who returns tonight after three months on the disabled list, develop into productive middle-of-the-order hitters.

They will cross their fingers that Betancourt can solidify their infield, and they will look for an answer in center field. And they will do so because the alternative is tearing it all down and starting again.

“I’m not going to give up on our baseball team,” Moore says. “I’m not going to do that. We put a lot of effort and energy last offseason in putting this team together. We’ve had some unfortunate injuries that we’ve accepted at this point in time.

“Now, we’re in a process of trying to overcome those setbacks.”

Moore means now, this season, despite the grim math staring back from the standings.

“Yeah, we’re still looking at this year,” he insists. “Unless I’m directed otherwise, I’m never going to be in a mind-set that this season is over and say, ‘Let’s focus on 2010 or 2011 or 2012.’ I’m not going to do that. I don’t want to concede anything with our team.”