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DeezNutz
08-18-2009, 02:01 PM
Farnsworth back up with the big club. Alex Gordon optioned to AAA to make room for this pitching stud.

Just reported on 810. I'll try to track down a link.

http://www.kansascity.com/784/story/1390760.html

Mecca
08-18-2009, 02:04 PM
Alex Gordon>Zimmerman, Braun and Longoria eh?

DeezNutz
08-18-2009, 02:07 PM
Alex Gordon>Zimmerman, Braun and Longoria eh?

It sucks shit.

Longoria might, MIGHT, have been an equal prospect coming out of college, but the rest weren't considered on the same level.

Typical Royals shit. Any of the other 3 would have been great, but we were burned.

What the Longoria situation should have taught us, however, is always take the best position player at the very top of the draft.

sedated
08-18-2009, 02:09 PM
What the Longoria situation should have taught us, however, is always take the best position player at the very top of the draft.

acording to pretty much everyone, Gordon was.

Mecca
08-18-2009, 02:10 PM
acording to pretty much everyone, Gordon was.

But we didn't take Longoria because of Gordon...

DeezNutz
08-18-2009, 02:12 PM
acording to pretty much everyone, Gordon was.

Of course. And you still can get ****ed, as we well know.

But it's still historically safer to take the top position player rather than the top pitcher. Thinking about the Hochevar draft...at 1/1 there's been Griffey and A-Rod and Baines and Upton (who is going to be special) and others. There's never been a stud pitcher. Never.

Gordon caused us not even to consider Longoria. Epic fail.

Mecca
08-18-2009, 02:13 PM
I mean really this team took Luke Hochever over Longoria mainly because of Gordon, so his draft pick is a double fuck.

DeezNutz
08-18-2009, 02:17 PM
I mean really this team took Luke Hochever over Longoria mainly because of Gordon, so his draft pick is a double ****.

Post-Gordon, the only first-round selection I've liked is Hosmer. I absolutely hated the Hochevar pick. Moosetacos was a joke, and I think I've spewed enough venom about the recent selection of Crow.

HemiEd
08-18-2009, 02:18 PM
Sorry guys, I haven't been paying much attention lately. What the **** happened to David Dejesus and who in the hell is this worthless Anderson guy that cost the game last night?

Please?

DeezNutz
08-18-2009, 02:26 PM
Sorry guys, I haven't been paying much attention lately. What the **** happened to David Dejesus and who in the hell is this worthless Anderson guy that cost the game last night?

Please?

Anderson? Just another scrub that was DFA by Detroit, and we took a chance. Not a bad risk, actually.

DeJesus has been doing fine of late, after moving to the leadoff spot, by the way. He has bad numbers against Burrrrrly, though.

HemiEd
08-18-2009, 02:35 PM
Anderson? Just another scrub that was DFA by Detroit, and we took a chance. Not a bad risk, actually.

DeJesus has been doing fine of late, after moving to the leadoff spot, by the way. He has bad numbers against Burrrrrly, though.

Was DeJesus just getting a break from CF last night? Anderson hits into a bases loaded DP, then bobbles the ball to allow the winning run to score.

I hate for them to lose at all, but losing to the White Sox sucks worse.

petegz28
08-18-2009, 02:53 PM
Was DeJesus just getting a break from CF last night? Anderson hits into a bases loaded DP, then bobbles the ball to allow the winning run to score.

I hate for them to lose at all, but losing to the White Sox sucks worse.

Anderson sucks. BTW, DDJ plays LF, and he was getting a break.

DeezNutz
08-18-2009, 03:09 PM
Embrace the losses. We're closer to the Harper sweepstakes.

And if we pass on him, we're that much closer to DM getting fired, which might be just as good.

HemiEd
08-18-2009, 03:20 PM
Anderson sucks. BTW, DDJ plays LF, and he was getting a break.

I forgot they moved him to left. Don't get to see them much up here, was following the games on the foxsports site for a while, but been too busy lately.
First time I had seen Anderson, not sure I ever want to see him again. I was so excited after the 3 run homer tied it up, then that ass can't field a ball cleanly, and it is all for not.

WilliamTheIrish
08-18-2009, 03:35 PM
Embrace the losses. We're closer to the Harper sweepstakes.

And if we pass on him, we're that much closer to DM getting fired, which might be just as good.3

Seems we're doing best/worst to achieve our chance of ruining another top pick. FTW!

DeezNutz
08-18-2009, 03:38 PM
3

Seems we're doing best/worst to achieve our chance of ruining another top pick. FTW!

Sadly, it's the truth.

I'm mired in a deep state of pessimism about this franchise, and what's truly revolting is that I believe I'm being clear-sighted.

Sure-Oz
08-18-2009, 03:55 PM
Embrace the losses. We're closer to the Harper sweepstakes.

And if we pass on him, we're that much closer to DM getting fired, which might be just as good.

No crap

Demonpenz
08-18-2009, 04:44 PM
I like callapso but rany says callapso would have to hit 350 to justify his defence.

WoodDraw
08-18-2009, 06:23 PM
I like callapso but rany says callapso would have to hit 350 to justify his defence.

That's interesting. Do you remember in what blog entry he wrote about that?

KCCHIEFS27
08-18-2009, 06:45 PM
I like callapso but rany says callapso would have to hit 350 to justify his defence.

Haha, well he did just drop a routine infield popup..

Reaper16
08-18-2009, 08:06 PM
New Rany:

Didn't See That Coming. (http://www.ranyontheroyals.com/2009/08/didnt-see-that-coming.html)

The minor league update is proceeding at an even more glacial pace than I expected – at this rate I’ll be done sometime around Thanksgiving – so rather than waiting until I’m done to tackle other topics, let’s interrupt the proceedings to talk about today’s news. Kyle Farnsworth made his triumphant return* to the Royals’ roster today, and to make room for him, Alex Gordon was optioned to Triple-A.
<o></o>
*: On Opening Day of this year, the Royals had seven relievers on their roster: Joakim Soria, Jamey Wright, Juan Cruz, Ron Mahay, Kyle Farnsworth, Robinson Tejeda, and Doug Waechter. Horacio Ramirez, who started the year in the rotation, replaced Waechter when Waechter went on the DL in April. John Bale started the season on the DL, but he was activated on May 24<sup>th</sup> when Tejeda went down. Roman Colon was called up the same day. Ramirez was released on June 13<sup>th</sup> and Tejeda returned a week later. Bruce Chen was called up on June 27<sup>th</sup> when Farnsworth was hurt, and would later join the bullpen.<o>
</o><o></o>
Since June 27<sup>th</sup>, here is the combined performance of every Royals reliever except for Joakim Soria:<o></o>
<o></o>
114.2 IP, 127 H, 88 R, 81 ER, 74 BB, 86 K, 19 HR, 6.36 ERA.<o></o>
<o></o>
Since June 27<sup>th</sup>, the only change made to the bullpen has been the activation of Doug Waechter on August 6<sup>th</sup> when Juan Cruz went to the DL. Waechter fit right in, allowing three runs in 1.1 innings before going back on the DL. And now Farnsworth takes his place.<o></o>
<o></o>
The Royals’ middle relief corps has, over the past seven weeks, delivered a performance rarely before witnessed in the annals of baseball history. They have sucked in every conceivable way and in a few inconceivable ones. And over the past seven weeks, <st1:city><st1>Dayton</st1> </st1:city><st1:city><st1>Moore</st1></st1:city> has not felt fit to make a single change to his personnel. The only change made was made because an injury forced his hand (or Cruz’s performance forced him to declare an injury) – and instead of trying a fresh face he just reactivated another one of the guys he brought in over the winter – and who was so recovered from his own injury that he went back on the DL a week later.<o></o>
<o></o>
And now Kyle Farnsworth is back. Meanwhile, not once has Dayton Moore shown the conviction to give one of the Royals’ minor league products – the products of the farm system he has invested so much effort and money in over the past three years – an opportunity to see if they can improve on the middle relief corps’ six-plus ERA.<o></o>
<o></o>
That might be the most scathing indictment I can think of regarding Dayton Moore: the Royals are 46-72, chugging towards the worst record in baseball, and we can’t even point to all the rookies on the roster as both an excuse for that performance and a hope that the performance will improve in the future. Consider this: it’s August 18<sup>th</sup>, and NOT ONE ROYAL HAS MADE HIS MAJOR LEAGUE DEBUT THIS SEASON. That’s a stat you might expect from a contending team with a huge payroll and stars at every position. That’s not something you expect from a last-place team that is supposedly building for the future.<o></o>
<o></o>
I guess The Process – I capitalize it out of respect – involves not just losing, but losing with a bunch of veterans while keeping promising minor leaguers like Kila Ka’aihue and Chris Hayes right where they are. Unless The Process includes “purposely tanking this season to get first dibs on Bryce Harper”, color me confused.<o></o>
<o></o>
Wow, that was one long tangent…back to Gordon. When the season started, the Royals’ hopes for contention were predicated on three young former first-round picks taking big steps forward. As disastrous as this season has been, it’s important to remember that two of those guys have, in fact, done so. Zack Greinke is the best pitcher in the American League, and Billy Butler is hitting .298/.353/.480 and is on pace for over 50 doubles. Two out of three isn’t bad at all; Greinke is under contract through 2012, <st1:city><st1>Butler</st1></st1:city> through 2013, which gives the Royals plenty of time to build a winning roster around them. This season hasn’t been a total loss.
<o></o>
But it has been a total loss for Gordon. Gordon hit .260/.351/.432 last year, which was still a disappointment by the standards we had set for him, but was actually a pretty good season: his OPS+ was 110, and by comparison <st1:city><st1>Butler</st1></st1:city>’s OPS+ this year – his breakout season – is 119. Even if Gordon didn’t take a big step forward to becoming the middle-of-the-lineup presence we thought he would be on draft day, he was already an above-average player – and if he took just a small step forward, turned a few strikeouts into walks and hit a few more home runs, he’d be one of the five best third basemen in the league.
<o></o>
Instead, he got hurt. Injuries happen, and while it was frustrating that it came at such an inopportune time, his hip problem didn’t seem likely to alter his long-term course. He raked the ball during his minor league rehab – in 13 games he hit .350/.491/.650 – and I was confident that he would return the same hitter as before, and hopefully better.

Instead, he’s hit just .227/.310/.333 since returning, and .198/.300/.313 overall. At times he’s looked like he’s rounding into form, as when he hit two doubles and two homers in a five-game span last week; and at times he’s looked totally lost at the plate, as when he’s gone 0-for-11 since. His walk totals are a refreshing change of pace on this team, but I can’t really say he’s got good plate discipline, not when he continues to swing at pitches low and away and then take pitches right down the middle. Gordon might strike out looking more often than any Royal ever.
<o></o>
And frankly – and this incredibly sad to write – I like this move. I would have liked this move a lot more had it come TWO YEARS AGO, when he deserved it, and when a Triple-A refresher might have kept his career from stagnating the way it has. But better late than never. Gordon has earned this, and the Royals have to stop shying away from holding their most promising young players accountable when they don’t perform as expected.
<o></o>
The really interesting implication here has to do with service time. If Gordon was not sent down, he’d be eligible for free agency after 2012. By getting sent down, the wheels are in place to delay free agency by a year. There’s about a 12-day gap between the number of calendar days in a full MLB season and the number of days required to qualify for a full year of service. However, that’s not the determining factor here. The determining factor is that if a player is optioned to the minors but returns in under 20 days, he gets full credit for the service time he missed during his option.
<o></o>
This is critical, because the last day of <st1:city><st1>Omaha</st1></st1:city>’s season is September 7<sup>th</sup>. If Gordon is recalled on September 8<sup>th</sup>, he will have spent 21 days in the minor leagues. The margin is so thin here that issues like “does today count as a minor league day or major league day?” and “does he have to spend MORE THAN 20 days, or AT LEAST 20 days in the minors?” matter. As I understand the CBA, he needs to be in the minors for at least 20 days, and he’s likely to be there for 21.
<o></o>
So don’t pay attention to <st1:city><st1>Moore</st1></st1:city> when he says there are no financial implications here. Not that I’m complaining. If this move works – if Gordon’s bat comes around – then delaying his free agency until 2013 will be HUGE. If it doesn’t work, then frankly his service time doesn’t matter anyway. But as I see it, this move has the potential to resurrect Gordon’s career, and delays his free agency by a year. And if it hurts the Royals on the field in the meantime – putting them in a better position in the Bryce Harper sweepstakes – so much the better. What’s not to love?

KCUnited
08-18-2009, 09:26 PM
That Soria performance was impressive.

Sure-Oz
08-20-2009, 03:44 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings090820

• The Royal family: The Royals placed Gil Meche on trade waivers Wednesday, meaning they'd be able to deal him starting Friday afternoon. But clubs that have felt out the Royals say they've shown very little interest in trading any of their four best pitchers -- Meche, Brian Bannister (already waived and pulled back), Joakim Soria (also on waivers this week) and, obviously, Zack Greinke.
The Royals have told other clubs that those guys have more value to them right now than they'd have in a deal. But not everyone on the outside agrees.
"I don't understand their position," said an official of one contender. "You take a guy like Soria. They could get three really good young players for him easy. He's young. He's under control. He's a lights-out closer. And with their team -- face it, with all due respect, they don't have a lot of games to close. So if they put him out there, he'd be huge. There would be a lot of teams interested. Look at the Cubs. Look at the Rays. They'd be all over a guy like that. It would be a great way [for the Royals] to rebuild their team. But they're just not interested."

I would deal Meche and Soria, honestly....if we can get 3 peices for soria, you have too.....

WoodDraw
08-20-2009, 03:52 PM
I would deal Meche and Soria, honestly....if we can get 3 peices for soria, you have too.....

You trade Meche, no questions asked. He's getting old, and the chance of him and the Royals being good at the same time is rapidly approaching 0.

Soria I still want to see tried as a starter. If they refuse to do that, may as well trade him to a team who will actually use him.

ChiTown
08-20-2009, 03:53 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings090820

• The Royal family: The Royals placed Gil Meche on trade waivers Wednesday, meaning they'd be able to deal him starting Friday afternoon. But clubs that have felt out the Royals say they've shown very little interest in trading any of their four best pitchers -- Meche, Brian Bannister (already waived and pulled back), Joakim Soria (also on waivers this week) and, obviously, Zack Greinke.
The Royals have told other clubs that those guys have more value to them right now than they'd have in a deal. But not everyone on the outside agrees.
"I don't understand their position," said an official of one contender. "You take a guy like Soria. They could get three really good young players for him easy. He's young. He's under control. He's a lights-out closer. And with their team -- face it, with all due respect, they don't have a lot of games to close. So if they put him out there, he'd be huge. There would be a lot of teams interested. Look at the Cubs. Look at the Rays. They'd be all over a guy like that. It would be a great way [for the Royals] to rebuild their team. But they're just not interested."

I would deal Meche and Soria, honestly....if we can get 3 peices for soria, you have too.....

We're the Royals. Being a bunch of dumbfugs with our player personnel is just who we are.

I'd deal Soria in a NY minute - for the very reason mentioned in the article. Just exactly how many save opportunities exist when you're a closer for the Royals? And, wtf does it matter when you're banging out 65-70 wins per year. JFC we're stupid.

sedated
08-20-2009, 03:53 PM
if they trade any of those guys, they might as well trade them all. All of them are locked up through at least 2012, and trading one would indicate they don't think they can win before that.

Sure-Oz
08-20-2009, 03:54 PM
Meche would be a hell of a trade chip now if we didnt have him throw 132 pitches and then keep throwing over a 100 after that....he's def. broken down since then with an era over 8 point and given up 12 hrs, he had 2 before that making 14 total now

CaliforniaChief
08-20-2009, 03:55 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings090820

• The Royal family: The Royals placed Gil Meche on trade waivers Wednesday, meaning they'd be able to deal him starting Friday afternoon. But clubs that have felt out the Royals say they've shown very little interest in trading any of their four best pitchers -- Meche, Brian Bannister (already waived and pulled back), Joakim Soria (also on waivers this week) and, obviously, Zack Greinke.
The Royals have told other clubs that those guys have more value to them right now than they'd have in a deal. But not everyone on the outside agrees.
"I don't understand their position," said an official of one contender. "You take a guy like Soria. They could get three really good young players for him easy. He's young. He's under control. He's a lights-out closer. And with their team -- face it, with all due respect, they don't have a lot of games to close. So if they put him out there, he'd be huge. There would be a lot of teams interested. Look at the Cubs. Look at the Rays. They'd be all over a guy like that. It would be a great way [for the Royals] to rebuild their team. But they're just not interested."

I would deal Meche and Soria, honestly....if we can get 3 peices for soria, you have too.....

I just don't agree with that. You have to build around some core players, and it seems to me like a team with a rancid bullpen at least has one guy that's amazing. He's only 25 and could do this at the MLB level for the next 7-10 years. You build around that, you don't give it away for 3 guys who are possibly 2-3 years away. It just sounds too much like the logic behind dealing Beltran. Build around Soria, Greinke, and Butler. If you can get something of value for Meche, do it.

sedated
08-20-2009, 03:55 PM
so no one thinks we can compete before 2012?

It'd be a shame to have a good team in 2011 or 2012, except for the one piece we traded away in 2009.

Mecca
08-20-2009, 03:55 PM
The Royals should have done what Pittsburgh did, anyone that has value is traded, this mix obviously isn't going to win.

Take your lumps while all this money you're spending on the draft comes up through the system. Might aswell finish last not spending any money so you can save it to pay the young guys when they expect to get paid.

Atleast that would be some kind of approach I don't even know what they're doing now.

Mecca
08-20-2009, 03:56 PM
I just don't agree with that. You have to build around some core players, and it seems to me like a team with a rancid bullpen at least has one guy that's amazing. He's only 25 and could do this at the MLB level for the next 7-10 years. You build around that, you don't give it away for 3 guys who are possibly 2-3 years away. It just sounds too much like the logic behind dealing Beltran. Build around Soria, Greinke, and Butler. If you can get something of value for Meche, do it.

If Billy Bean ever taught the league 1 thing, it's that closers are overrated.

Sure-Oz
08-20-2009, 03:57 PM
so no one thinks we can compete before 2012?

It'd be a shame to have a good team in 2011 or 2012, except for the one piece we traded away in 2009.

It would take 2 great offseasons and a guy or two to come up to get us going by 2011....

our team is no better than last year and has regressed except for a few players. Our defense is horrible, we have no CFer, our 3b is in AAA cause he sucks, and well, we have alot of guys who can't get on base. The pen needs to be rebuilt as well.

5 year plan has turned into 8 years now

Soria is worthless to us till we develop a team. If we can get a teams top 3 prospects for him, and they are considered ml or near ml ready you do it. like the phillies top 3 prospects

Mecca
08-20-2009, 03:59 PM
They aren't going to be ready by 2011 all the guys they drafted are high school guys they are years and years away.

Grienke and Butler are about the only guys the Royals shouldn't be open to trading everyone else should be expendable.

BigRock
08-20-2009, 04:14 PM
"I don't understand their position," said an official of one contender. "You take a guy like Soria. They could get three really good young players for him easy. He's young. He's under control. He's a lights-out closer. And with their team -- face it, with all due respect, they don't have a lot of games to close. So if they put him out there, he'd be huge. There would be a lot of teams interested. Look at the Cubs. Look at the Rays. They'd be all over a guy like that. It would be a great way [for the Royals] to rebuild their team. But they're just not interested."

If they weren't interested in at least a preliminary discussion about trading Soria, they wouldn't have put him on waivers.

Deberg_1990
08-20-2009, 04:22 PM
Grienke and Butler are about the only guys the Royals shouldn't be open to trading everyone else should be expendable.

Agreed. Been saying this for awhile now.

Dayton showed me hes basically "chicken" the way he did nothing at the trade deadline.

I have zero condidence in him.

Reaper16
08-20-2009, 04:26 PM
Soria is awesome and all, but it isn't like you couldn't replace him. You don't need to have an "elite" closer. For as little as this team gets to close games, you can get creative. I'd bet Kyle Davies would make for a very nice closer.

DeezNutz
08-20-2009, 04:33 PM
Soria is awesome and all, but it isn't like you couldn't replace him. You don't need to have an "elite" closer. For as little as this team gets to close games, you can get creative. I'd bet Kyle Davies would make for a very nice closer.

Exactly.

He's a very, very good player, but he's not a cornerstone.

There are only two players in the entire organization I wouldn't trade at this point: Greinke and Butler. Everyone else, including all of the top guys in the minors, can be had.

Unless Dayton pulls a rabbit out of his ass, this team isn't going to be worth a fuck until 2012 at the earliest. It's a complete clusterfuck.

Sure-Oz
08-20-2009, 05:20 PM
I think they need to blow this shit up, keep greinke and butler as everyone has said. They look like ML players, trade the rest, id def. hate to lose soria, but im a royals fan not just 1 guy

JASONSAUTO
08-20-2009, 05:41 PM
If Billy Bean ever taught the league 1 thing, it's that closers are overrated.

honest question here, how many titles did bean win?

petegz28
08-20-2009, 07:32 PM
I think they need to blow this shit up, keep greinke and butler as everyone has said. They look like ML players, trade the rest, id def. hate to lose soria, but im a royals fan not just 1 guy

hate to agree but I agree. I really like Soria. But we don't come close to getting our money's worth out of him. And even when the opportunity presents itself for us too, our idiot coach won't go to him.

Ebolapox
08-20-2009, 07:33 PM
honest question here, how many titles did bean win?

beane's protege, theo epstein, has won a few :)

(now, if we could just play up to par these days)

DeezNutz
08-20-2009, 09:23 PM
beane's protege, theo epstein, has won a few :)

(now, if we could just play up to par these days)

Theo believes in that quirky thing called statistical analysis, too. He probably even understands what defensive statistics mean.

That's bullshit. /Dayton/

tk13
08-20-2009, 10:35 PM
You would most likely never get equal return if you traded Soria. That's the only real problem, people act like if you trade him you automatically get three studs in return. It's not about taking risks, most of baseball is just so conservative about dealing prospects anymore it's going to be difficult to get a fair deal. That's why the Halladay trade never happened. You're probably not going to get a Drabek/Happ for Soria type deal that you'd have to get to justify the trade.

I put a little more value in the bullpen than most maybe, as we've seen this year it'll kill you. It's not as easy as just putting Kyle Davies there. I like Bill James but I don't buy into the theory that anybody can close. Unless you get knocked on your head by a deal you're truly going to have just as good luck finding another Nunez type to bridge the gap as you are getting rid of Soria.

DeezNutz
08-20-2009, 11:38 PM
You would most likely never get equal return if you traded Soria. That's the only real problem, people act like if you trade him you automatically get three studs in return. It's not about taking risks, most of baseball is just so conservative about dealing prospects anymore it's going to be difficult to get a fair deal. That's why the Halladay trade never happened. You're probably not going to get a Drabek/Happ for Soria type deal that you'd have to get to justify the trade.

I put a little more value in the bullpen than most maybe, as we've seen this year it'll kill you. It's not as easy as just putting Kyle Davies there. I like Bill James but I don't buy into the theory that anybody can close. Unless you get knocked on your head by a deal you're truly going to have just as good luck finding another Nunez type to bridge the gap as you are getting rid of Soria.

I disagree about the return. Stark said it would be HUGE (his emphasis), and I imagine this would be accurate if he's dealt to a team that is legitimately in the hunt for the WS but lacks a lights-out guy at the back of the pen.

Sure-Oz
08-20-2009, 11:56 PM
Phillies can give us Drabek and that OF they have that is really good....we'll throw in jacobs

tk13
08-21-2009, 12:41 AM
That's a bunch of typical talk by front office people that think they can fleece the poor 'ol Royals. And BS talk by fans who are thinking in fantasy baseball terms. When it came time to step up to the table they'd chicken out. Same crap that happened with Halladay. "Oh once they put him on the market it'll get a huge return. Phillies, Dodgers, Angels, all these teams with great prospects, yadda yadda." It wasn't nearly as easy as it seemed in June.

I would almost bet a 1000 dollars that if we traded him most fans would not be happy with the return we got. Maybe I'm wrong. You'd have to get some top flight pitching prospects, or bats (and power bats) that are more advanced than guys like Hosmer. Otherwise it's a waste of time. I don't know, often times teams that trade away someone like Soria usually don't win.

The funniest thing is everybody used to rip on the Royals for trading their best players and not signing them long term, and now everyone seems to think the opposite.

tk13
08-21-2009, 12:53 AM
so no one thinks we can compete before 2012?

It'd be a shame to have a good team in 2011 or 2012, except for the one piece we traded away in 2009.
I don't know about competing. You fix the bullpen and this is probably a 75 win team again. The bullpen is that bad. It's really not an exaggeration to say this team would have 10-20 more wins if you could just find one or two pitchers to bridge to Soria. Granted we traded those away, but that's what everyone is wanting Moore to do now, take some risks, we did that with Nunez and Ramirez and lost out. But bullpens are much easier to turn over, we've done it just about every single offseason under DM, so you can fix that by next year.

Now finding the bats to push it to a 85-90 win team, that's another story.

Demonpenz
08-21-2009, 08:11 AM
the only bat in FA is bobby abrau and Jermanie dye. We would never do this but I would like to see coco back, but that is too much risk for 9 mil or whatever he wants

BigCatDaddy
08-21-2009, 08:21 AM
the only bat in FA is bobby abrau and Jermanie dye. We would never do this but I would like to see coco back, but that is too much risk for 9 mil or whatever he wants

The only problem is if he came back freakin Hillman would probably bump Dejesus out of the leadoff spot again, despite him showing he bats so much better there. I would rather see Coco batting #2 then Willie.

ChiTown
08-21-2009, 08:22 AM
You would most likely never get equal return if you traded Soria. That's the only real problem, people act like if you trade him you automatically get three studs in return. It's not about taking risks, most of baseball is just so conservative about dealing prospects anymore it's going to be difficult to get a fair deal. That's why the Halladay trade never happened. You're probably not going to get a Drabek/Happ for Soria type deal that you'd have to get to justify the trade.

I put a little more value in the bullpen than most maybe, as we've seen this year it'll kill you. It's not as easy as just putting Kyle Davies there. I like Bill James but I don't buy into the theory that anybody can close. Unless you get knocked on your head by a deal you're truly going to have just as good luck finding another Nunez type to bridge the gap as you are getting rid of Soria.

If your Bullpen sucks balls, what good does a top-of-the-line closer do for you? Not to mention, your offense couldn't score with a prostitute on nickel night. It's like having a beautiful new car that is only good to look at.

Get rid of him, and get some position players that can actually produce MLB batting statistics that don't labor in the bottom 15-20%

sedated
08-21-2009, 08:37 AM
If your Bullpen sucks balls, what good does a top-of-the-line closer do for you? Not to mention, your offense couldn't score with a prostitute on nickel night. It's like having a beautiful new car that is only good to look at.

Get rid of him, and get some position players that can actually produce MLB batting statistics that don't labor in the bottom 15-20%

its a lot easier to build a good bullpen when you already have a great closer.

I don't see any logic in, "our bullpen sucks, so get rid of our closer".


(actually, I don't see much logic in a lot of stuff that gets said around here. but, hey, I'm no geenious.)

ChiTown
08-21-2009, 08:42 AM
its a lot easier to build a good bullpen when you already have a great closer.

I don't see any logic in, "our bullpen sucks, so get rid of our closer".


(actually, I don't see much logic in a lot of stuff that gets said around here. but, hey, I'm no geenious.)

Way to read into only half of what I wrote. Bravo.

Your bullpen sucks. Check.

Your offense Blows chunks of biblical MLB proportion, Check.

We have a great closer. Check - but what does it matter if you can't A. Score enough to get a lead, or B. keep the lead with your BP.

Hence, ship him off, and build a TEAM first.

JASONSAUTO
08-21-2009, 09:29 AM
beane's protege, theo epstein, has won a few :)

(now, if we could just play up to par these days)

hmmm. that doesnt answer the question though

JASONSAUTO
08-21-2009, 09:31 AM
Theo believes in that quirky thing called statistical analysis, too. He probably even understands what defensive statistics mean.

That's bullshit. /Dayton/

ROFL not defending anyone here, but the red sox also know how to throw that money around. do you honestly think they would be as successful without doing that? everything else aside IMO in MLB you HAVE to throw tons of money around to be a consistent winner

FringeNC
08-21-2009, 09:40 AM
ROFL not defending anyone here, but the red sox also know how to throw that money around. do you honestly think they would be as successful without doing that? everything else aside IMO in MLB you HAVE to throw tons of money around to be a consistent winner

If Dayton Moore had money to spend, we'd be the NY Mets - the other franchise that eschews statistical analysis.

DeezNutz
08-21-2009, 07:31 PM
ROFL not defending anyone here, but the red sox also know how to throw that money around. do you honestly think they would be as successful without doing that? everything else aside IMO in MLB you HAVE to throw tons of money around to be a consistent winner

What does their spending ability have anything to do with paying attention to a major way to evaluate talent?

Dayton Moore is dumb as fuck. That's my only point.

DeezNutz
08-21-2009, 07:34 PM
So, I flipped over from the Chef's game to be treated by the single worst defensive play that I've seen all year.

Span hits a line drive toward the right field line. Anderson goes over, takes a poor route, and the ball skips under his glove. Should have been an EASY pick up. Then, he kinda halfass runs after it. Not 100%. Clearly a bit embarrassed.

Then, he picks up the ball to throw it in, and it slips out as he's bringing it back, so Anderson actually throws the ball backwards.

Span is credited with a triple, and there's a one base error, as he scored with ease.

Game tied, 3-3.

The Royals are epically shitty. Thanks, Dayton.

Reaper16
08-23-2009, 03:20 PM
This is pretty amazing: The Twins' Michael Cuddyer hit 2 HR today, both in the 7th inning.

He hit 2 HR in the same inning.

2.

Sure-Oz
08-23-2009, 03:21 PM
I see our prized signing Kyle Farnsworth comes in for 1 inning and gives up 5 er's

DM is so awesome

DeezNutz
08-23-2009, 03:32 PM
I see our prized signing Kyle Farnsworth comes in for 1 inning and gives up 5 er's

DM is so awesome

Saw the boxscore.

Pretty amazing, actually.

Mecca
08-23-2009, 03:33 PM
Dayton Moore....super genius.

DeezNutz
08-23-2009, 03:38 PM
Worst GM in baseball.

He's had enough resources to try to put a respectable product on the field, and he's assembled a team that can't field, get on base, hit for power, or hit for average. SP was above average until Hillman, apparently on Moore's orders according to recent interviews (see the latest Moore interview with Petro on 810), decided to abuse the fuck out of all our starters.

Worst. GM. In. The. Game.

Hands down.

Mecca
08-23-2009, 03:40 PM
Dayton Moore gets to spend 40 mill a year more than Allard Baird and has the same results..I bet somewhere Baird is laughing.

Sure-Oz
08-23-2009, 03:42 PM
It figures the Royals get 'the best young baseball mind' and he is a total idiot...why couldn't the redsox have gotten him damnit

Deberg_1990
08-23-2009, 03:44 PM
It figures the Royals get 'the best young baseball mind' and he is a total idiot...why couldn't the redsox have gotten him damnit

Yea, i dont get it?????

This Franchise has some sort of curse against it? How come we cant find anyone who knows how to run a franchise properly??

Mecca
08-23-2009, 03:45 PM
The best young baseball mind apparently has no idea what stats are.

It's pretty mind boggling.

DeezNutz
08-23-2009, 03:46 PM
Dayton Moore gets to spend 40 mill a year more than Allard Baird and has the same results..I bet somewhere Baird is laughing.

This will be disputed, but I don't give a ****:

Baird > Moore.

Not by a mile, but the former, with all his flaws, is a far more capable baseball mind. If given the same resources, Baird would assemble a better ML roster, and he would draft more effectively.

Nightfyre
08-23-2009, 03:52 PM
Posted via Mobile Device

Reaper16
08-23-2009, 03:58 PM
This will be disputed, but I don't give a ****:

Baird > Moore.

Not by a mile, but the former, with all his flaws, is a far more capable baseball mind. If given the same resources, Baird would assemble a better ML roster, and he would draft more effectively.
I can't see how this is based off of anything but pure emotion. There is zero indication that Baird would operate differently than Moore is now, let alone perform better than Moore.

DeezNutz
08-23-2009, 04:12 PM
I can't see how this is based off of anything but pure emotion. There is zero indication that Baird would operate differently than Moore is now, let alone perform better than Moore.

Alex Gordon.

Baird selected the top player, with full knowledge that the organization might not have been able to sign him. The team was on record as saying that Upton was a generational talent. The possibility of inking him might have been slim, but he wasn't falling past #2.

Moore's indifference to the top talent, his preference to spread the money throughout the draft, has already cost us the likes of Wieters and Porcello. Combine this with selections of Hochevar and Crow, choices I absolutely detest, and I'm confident that Baird would have drafted better with an increased budget.

In the Hochevar draft, Baird's top two were Miller and Lincecum. Miller was flipped for a pretty decent power hitter, and TL just sucks bawls.

With a complete shit budget, it looks like AB hit on Butler (as a high-quality bat), and we all know Greinke is full of win. 2/5.

I believe that Moore will be 0/4 thus far in the first round.

This is just a small slice of a larger argument, obviously. In short, Baird was so limited because of ownership, that his reputation in this town has been slanted.

Oh, and I believe the Red Sox would not have hired someone who doesn't understand statistical analysis. Moore and Herm are somewhere right now trying to figure out an intraweb.

Reaper16
08-23-2009, 04:27 PM
Alex Gordon.

Baird selected the top player, with full knowledge that the organization might not have been able to sign him. The team was on record as saying that Upton was a generational talent. The possibility of inking him might have been slim, but he wasn't falling past #2.

Moore's indifference to the top talent, his preference to spread the money throughout the draft, has already cost us the likes of Wieters and Porcello. Combine this with selections of Hochevar and Crow, choices I absolutely detest, and I'm confident that Baird would have drafted better with an increased budget.

In the Hochevar draft, Baird's top two were Miller and Lincecum. Miller was flipped for a pretty decent power hitter, and TL just sucks bawls.

With a complete shit budget, it looks like AB hit on Butler (as a high-quality bat), and we all know Greinke is full of win. 2/5.

I believe that Moore will be 0/4 thus far in the first round.

This is just a small slice of a larger argument, obviously. In short, Baird was so limited because of ownership, that his reputation in this town has been slanted.

Oh, and I believe the Red Sox would not have hired someone who doesn't understand statistical analysis. Moore and Herm are somewhere right now trying to figure out an intraweb.
I see where you're coming from. The difference in signability concerns with Gordon and some of the players that came years later is really large; so large that it doesn't even seem useful at all. Meanwhile, Moore has dealt with Scott Boras multiple times and dealt out sizable bonuses to his 1st rounders.

If Glass wasn't so buddy-buddy with Selig in trying to curb amateur contracts then maybe the organization gets to draft guys who are asking for huge deals.

KevB
08-23-2009, 04:31 PM
I took my 7 year old son to the game today. I think there were more Twins fans than Royals fans. That 8 run inning was the height of embarrassment. I can barely teach my son how to be a fan while watching this joke of a team.

To top it off, I take him out to the kids section between the 6th and 7th innings (thinking at least he could have some fun during our trip to the K), and they stopped selling tokens to the activities as I'm standing in line --- a line that was a total of 3 deep. Are you F'ing kidding me? 3 innings left, and she shuts the door on my son. Something he'd been looking forward to all game. Thanks Royals, I'll be sure not to attend another game this season.

DeezNutz
08-23-2009, 04:33 PM
I see where you're coming from. The difference in signability concerns with Gordon and some of the players that came years later is really large; so large that it doesn't even seem useful at all.

Our draft budget has become equally large, but beyond this, I have serious issues with how DM has appropriated money.

For example, would you rather have Wieters or both Buck and Olivo? Would you rather have Farnsworth or Porcello? And we could continue to make a pretty impressive list of this sort.

Obviously mistakes will be made, and I'm not trying to cherry pick "right" answers, thus beginning with Gordon and Upton. I have no doubt we would have selected the latter if AZ passed.

I guess I could sum it up best by saying this: I think Dayton Moore is an anti-intellectual GM, and Rany labeled the wrong person of power within the organization as "barnyard dumb."

Hillman is inconsequential. Moore's stupidity is destructive.

DeezNutz
08-23-2009, 04:35 PM
I took my 7 year old son to the game today. I think there were more Twins fans than Royals fans. That 8 run inning was the height of embarrassment. I can barely teach my son how to be a fan while watching this joke of a team.

To top it off, I take him out to the kids section between the 6th and 7th innings (thinking at least he could have some fun during our trip to the K), and they stopped selling tokens to the activities as I'm standing in line --- a line that was a total of 3 deep. Are you F'ing kidding me? 3 innings left, and she shuts the door on my son. Something he'd been looking forward to all game. Thanks Royals, I'll be sure not to attend another game this season.

In all seriousness, this deserves a call to the Royals.

Terrible way for an embarrassing organization to treat fans. At this point, the Royals should be doing everything short of tossing the salad of every paying customer.

Reaper16
08-23-2009, 04:43 PM
For example, would you rather have Wieters or both Buck and Olivo? Would you rather have Farnsworth or Porcello? And we could continue to make a pretty impressive list of this sort.

I'm not going to put the full weight on DM unless I know for certain that Glass wasn't giving him budgetary restrictions. Plus, from Glass' perspective a FA signing is better for business.

There is a common demominator between Allard and Dayton that has to be accounted for: the owner. Both GMs were/are bad and its tough to say just how much of that was out of their hands.

Mecca
08-23-2009, 04:51 PM
I still want to know why the Royals are paying 8 million dollars for 2 shit catches that makes no sense, if you have 8 million dollars of catcher you should have 1 badass catcher.

DeezNutz
08-23-2009, 04:55 PM
There is a common demominator between Allard and Dayton that has to be accounted for: the owner. Both GMs were/are bad and its tough to say just how much of that was out of their hands.

I'm in complete agreement with your comment about the owner.

I think it is possible to win with how Glass is currently conducting business, though we'll probably all agree that he needs to do much, much more. The rub is that the organization must have a very bright GM to pull it off.

Unfortunately, we're still looking for this individual.

tk13
08-23-2009, 05:11 PM
Baird probably was never as bad as he was made out to be. But where he messed up was in 2004. That was a critical turning point. Team looked good on paper but we know how that goes sometimes.

The only thing I don't like is how everybody thinks the Red Sox win because of statistical analysis. Haha, yeah right. And I love statistics, but any "philosophy" is going to look a lot smarter with that payroll. The Angels play small ball and run all around the yard and they look great too, they've probably developed just as many guys as the Red Sox. But I wonder if Dayton wishes he'd gone to the Red Sox, or stayed with the Braves. His career would probably be looked at a lot differently, although there's a long way to go before you can really begin to evaluate DM's drafts.

DeezNutz
08-23-2009, 05:28 PM
Baird probably was never as bad as he was made out to be. But where he messed up was in 2004. That was a critical turning point. Team looked good on paper but we know how that goes sometimes.

The only thing I don't like is how everybody thinks the Red Sox win because of statistical analysis. Haha, yeah right. And I love statistics, but any "philosophy" is going to look a lot smarter with that payroll. The Angels play small ball and run all around the yard and they look great too, they've probably developed just as many guys as the Red Sox. But I wonder if Dayton wishes he'd gone to the Red Sox, or stayed with the Braves. His career would probably be looked at a lot differently, although there's a long way to go before you can really begin to evaluate DM's drafts.

I don't think they win because of it, tk. Far from it. But I certainly think it aids in their scouting/development of players.

And the fact that our GM, at least publicly, denounces this tool doesn't speak well of him. I think it's almost identical to when Herm said he didn't know how to use an intranet.

It's intellectual shortsightedness at an impressive level.

Deberg_1990
08-23-2009, 06:21 PM
I still want to know why the Royals are paying 8 million dollars for 2 shit catches that makes no sense, if you have 8 million dollars of catcher you should have 1 badass catcher.

Dont worry, Buck is gonna have that break out season any day now.

doomy3
08-23-2009, 07:10 PM
I still want to know why the Royals are paying 8 million dollars for 2 shit catches that makes no sense, if you have 8 million dollars of catcher you should have 1 badass catcher.

I know what you're saying, since you've repeated this at least one million times now, but I really don't think Miguel Olivo is the biggest problem on this team. You do realize he is 4th in the AL in HRs for a catcher, don't you?

I mean, yeah, it would be great to have Joe Mauer or Victor Martinez, but there are about 30 other clubs that could say that.

The Royals suck, no question about that, but you on your crusade about catchers reminds me of the time you were on your soap box about every outfielder that plays for the Royals needs to bat .300 with at least 30 HRs. There were none of those players in the entire AL that year.

Mecca
08-23-2009, 07:16 PM
If they want to go with Olivo great, then John Buck shouldn't be here making 4 mill, it's a waste of money.

There are numerous places where they are just wasting money then Dayton turns around and talks about the budget.

Reaper16
08-23-2009, 07:25 PM
I know what you're saying, since you've repeated this at least one million times now, but I really don't think Miguel Olivo is the biggest problem on this team. You do realize he is 4th in the AL in HRs for a catcher, don't you?

I mean, yeah, it would be great to have Joe Mauer or Victor Martinez, but there are about 30 other clubs that could say that.

The Royals suck, no question about that, but you on your crusade about catchers reminds me of the time you were on your soap box about every outfielder that plays for the Royals needs to bat .300 with at least 30 HRs. There were none of those players in the entire AL that year.
Olivo is not the biggest problem, but he is a problem. The dude blows; who cares about the HRs?

DeezNutz
08-23-2009, 07:55 PM
I know what you're saying, since you've repeated this at least one million times now, but I really don't think Miguel Olivo is the biggest problem on this team. You do realize he is 4th in the AL in HRs for a catcher, don't you?

I mean, yeah, it would be great to have Joe Mauer or Victor Martinez, but there are about 30 other clubs that could say that.

The Royals suck, no question about that, but you on your crusade about catchers reminds me of the time you were on your soap box about every outfielder that plays for the Royals needs to bat .300 with at least 30 HRs. There were none of those players in the entire AL that year.

His OBP is .271 and his OPS+ is 91.

And as I typed the above, he struck out and allowed a passed ball.

I agree that Olivo isn't the biggest problem, nor is John Buck. But the catching position is certainly a microcosm of how Moore has misallocated funds. This is emphasized even more because of the talk of Pena actually being the starting catcher.

How more people aren't calling for Moore's head is a mystery to me. And I don't want to hear about "giving his draft picks time." I'll give anyone three fireable offenses right now:

1. Guillen's contract.
2. Allowing or even advocating the abuse of Meche.
3. Trading for Berroacourt.

Deberg_1990
08-23-2009, 08:39 PM
How more people aren't calling for Moore's head is a mystery to me.

This.

The Honeymoon should be over. Hes obviously safe right now, but if the team isnt any better next year, its time for him to go.

sedated
08-23-2009, 08:58 PM
DM made a lot of progress. It might not be visible at the major league level, but I still think it will be shown soon.

even if he screwed up this 1st round of attempting to build a contender, shouldn't he be given a 2nd round now that he has built the (lower) minor league system the way he has preached his entire time in KC?

DeezNutz
08-23-2009, 09:03 PM
DM made a lot of progress. It might not be visible at the major league level, but I still think it will be shown soon.

even if he screwed up this 1st round of attempting to build a contender, shouldn't he be given a 2nd round now that he has built the (lower) minor league system the way he has preached his entire time in KC?

I think the improvements that DM, specifically, has done for the minor league system are marginal at best.

The owner is spending legit. money in the draft and Latin America. I'd contend that any GM would look like he's doing a pretty decent job because of the money being contributed by Glass.

We know that Moore is a complete ****ing idiot when it comes to FA and trades. And now we're supposed to operate on blind faith about a bunch of unknown quantities, the players we've never heard of?

If he's a dumb **** in all other respects, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that he's ****ing things up in all aspects. We know he's taking questionable guys, at best, with the first-round selections.

I will give the *organization* credit for Myers and Melville, however, as, again, this comes down to any GM being given sufficient resources.

tk13
08-23-2009, 09:13 PM
I think DM has done an average job in terms of FA and such up until this year. This year was horrible. And we kinda knew that going in with Farnsworth. Cruz is probably another story, he's always at least been average, never quite this bad. Jacobs hasn't lived up to expectations. Crisp actually was a pleasant surprise but he got hurt. I think losing him probably hurt this team more than he'll be given credit for, he was actually behaving like a leadoff hitter.

I think another FA period like last year and there will be some serious heat on DM. But at the same time he did a great job with Meche, finding Soria, Bannister, and even Callaspo. He locked Greinke and Soria up to great contracts. It's not like he's gone three years without finding any talent. I'd probably give him a C up to this point. The Braves guys always rebuild the bullpen from year to year, and he did it twice, it bombed this year. He's gotta flip it over again next year. That alone will get this team back to 75ish wins, we have the chance to have a really good pitching staff.

tk13
08-23-2009, 09:16 PM
Then again if we'd been able to lock up guys like Torii Hunter and Orlando Hudson we'd probably all be looking at this thing differently. But that's what happens when you're the Royals. Whether it's DM or somebody else at least it feels like we have some foundation to build on with guys like Greinke and Soria. As opposed to before when it was an injured DH and guys who we knew were going to be traded when their contract ends.

DeezNutz
08-23-2009, 09:25 PM
I find it ironic, however, that two of the key pieces we're looking to build upon are Baird guys, Greinke and Butler.

I'm filing the Greinke re-signing under the umbrella of common sense. The only GM who would let this kind of talent walk is the one who cannot afford him.

Soria and Bannister were indeed great deals. But I'm beginning to think that the Meche signing was the sun finding the dog's ass, since DM is the same guy who will break the bank on Jose ****ing Guillen.

And people will say, "What was he supposed to do? Guillen was the best we could get." Fine. And this might be true, and if it is, what Moore should have done was nothing. Don't spend to spend.

tk13
08-23-2009, 09:33 PM
But it was always going to be that way. I said the same thing when Baird was fired. If this group succeeds it's going to be with help from guys like Butler and Gordon. I don't think it's that big of a deal. Otherwise it'd take DM 6-10 years to build a team from complete scratch.

I think Baird is a solid scout. He was with this organization for a long long time, going back to the 80's. And as for DM, it's not just him. We have a near all-star collection of front office people. Yeah it all falls at his feet, and it should. It might not work out but I think we have a lot of accomplished baseball people running things now. Probably better than any time since Mr. K passed away.

sedated
08-23-2009, 09:43 PM
its so easy to be negative at the tail end of a season like this. but the DM lynch-mob might want to cool off a bit. it takes a while to turn around a franchise as fukt as this one was.

the people calling for DM's head now are the same ones who buy world series tickets when we sweep the season-opening series.

Reaper16
08-23-2009, 09:44 PM
I find it ironic, however, that two of the key pieces we're looking to build upon are Baird guys, Greinke and Butler.

I'm filing the Greinke re-signing under the umbrella of common sense. The only GM who would let this kind of talent walk is the one who cannot afford him.

Soria and Bannister were indeed great deals. But I'm beginning to think that the Meche signing was the sun finding the dog's ass, since DM is the same guy who will break the bank on Jose ****ing Guillen.

And people will say, "What was he supposed to do? Guillen was the best we could get." Fine. And this might be true, and if it is, what Moore should have done was nothing. Don't spend to spend.
You're right about everything, but I must take umbrage with the first paragraph. DM's drafted pieces haven't made it to the bigs yet. Much of that is his apparent fixation with drafting high schoolers, which is probably not the best choice given the franchise's limited resources. But the point remains that those two pieces have been in the Royals system for a long time now, comparatively speaking. I thus find zero irony in Butler and Greinke being two of the team's three "cornerstone" guys (I'm counting Soria).

DeezNutz
08-23-2009, 09:48 PM
And as for DM, it's not just him. We have a near all-star collection of front office people. Yeah it all falls at his feet, and it should. It might not work out but I think we have a lot of accomplished baseball people running things now. Probably better than any time since Mr. K passed away.

I agree, but this makes the moves for Betancourt, Jacobs, etc. all the more puzzling. DM talks a great game (OBP is key to success, HS high upside guys in the draft), and then his actions are often a direct contradiction.

And we haven't scratched the surface on his managerial hire, who has been nothing less than embarrassing in his short tenure with the team. I haven't mentioned him much in these exchanges b/c baseball managers are pretty irrelevant, but this is important b/c it points again to Moore's ability to evaluate talent, in this case the manager.

DeezNutz
08-23-2009, 09:52 PM
You're right about everything, but I must take umbrage with the first paragraph. DM's drafted pieces haven't made it to the bigs yet. Much of that is his apparent fixation with drafting high schoolers, which is probably not the best choice given the franchise's limited resources. But the point remains that those two pieces have been in the Royals system for a long time now, comparatively speaking. I thus find zero irony in Butler and Greinke being two of the team's three "cornerstone" guys (I'm counting Soria).

Irony b/c Baird is typically roasted in this town, while his players are leading the rebuilding effort. Are we even allowed to continue using the term "rebuilding"? Is is really applicable if it's been happening (allegedly) for 15 years?

Anyway, I'm also curious about Moore's draft philosophy, which was essentially flip-flopped this season when he drafted a large proportion of college arms. What happened to HS high upside?

Have a philosophy and stick with it. The wavering suggests that Moore is feeling the heat or losing a bit of confidence in what is really in the system.

Reaper16
08-23-2009, 10:04 PM
Irony b/c Baird is typically roasted in this town, while his players are leading the rebuilding effort. Are we even allowed to continue using the term "rebuilding"? Is is really applicable if it's been happening (allegedly) for 15 years?

Anyway, I'm also curious about Moore's draft philosophy, which was essentially flip-flopped this season when he drafted a large proportion of college arms. What happened to HS high upside?

Have a philosophy and stick with it. The wavering suggests that Moore is feeling the heat or losing a bit of confidence in what is really in the system.
Greinke was a no-doubter. Butler, however, was a find; Baird deserves much credit for that pick.

I can't disagree with your other points.

I guess my [very] light defenses of Moore have been made only because I think he should be shown to be a failure in-full before I vilify him to the degree that you are doing (by saying that he's the worst GM in MLB hands-down).

DeezNutz
08-23-2009, 10:15 PM
Greinke was a no-doubter. Butler, however, was a find; Baird deserves much credit for that pick.

I can't disagree with your other points.

I guess my [very] light defenses of Moore have been made only because I think he should be shown to be a failure in-full before I vilify him to the degree that you are doing (by saying that he's the worst GM in MLB hands-down).

Yeah, I'll try not to state my opinions so delicately next time. :)

DeezNutz
08-24-2009, 03:56 PM
Mahay DFA. Yabuta up.

Sure glad we didn't trade Mahay last year.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/royals/story/1403104.html

Reaper16
08-24-2009, 04:48 PM
Mahay DFA. Yabuta up.

Sure glad we didn't trade Mahay last year.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/royals/story/1403104.html
Ugh.

Sure-Oz
08-24-2009, 05:11 PM
Mahay DFA. Yabuta up.

Sure glad we didn't trade Mahay last year.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/royals/story/1403104.html

The hatred for DM grows day by day....

I just love how Bale is still on the team as well...Mahay will get on with a contender

DeezNutz
08-24-2009, 08:26 PM
Can someone tell me why Soria is now regularly used for two full innings when Hillman repeatedly said that "Jack" COULD NOT be used for 5 outs?

Sure-Oz
08-24-2009, 08:35 PM
Can someone tell me why Soria is now regularly used for two full innings when Hillman repeatedly said that "Jack" COULD NOT be used for 5 outs?

DM and Trey are in the process of trying to blow his arm out as well to add to the excuse desk

DeezNutz
08-24-2009, 08:36 PM
DM and Trey are in the process of trying to blow his arm out as well to add to the excuse desk

Desperate times call for desperate measures. /Trey/

petegz28
08-24-2009, 09:06 PM
Can someone tell me why Soria is now regularly used for two full innings when Hillman repeatedly said that "Jack" COULD NOT be used for 5 outs?

Yea, isn't that just a peach of a deal? 3 winnable games in a row he sits on the bench, now when we are ready to go 28 games under he can throw inning after inning.


BTW we have allowed 10 runs for the 2nd night in a row....Hillman is a mad scientist, I tell you what!

Sure-Oz
08-24-2009, 09:09 PM
This has to be the worst royals season ever, or atleast has the potential to be

DaWolf
08-24-2009, 09:13 PM
This has to be the worst royals season ever, or atleast has the potential to be

Meh, they're all equally irrelevant years in my view. The Royals are pretty much the equivalent of the Clippers, a bad organization that isn't going to get any better without a miracle...

petegz28
08-24-2009, 09:16 PM
In a game where the Royals once lead 4-3 they lose 10-6.....

Sure-Oz
08-25-2009, 11:14 AM
Poz thinks this is the worst royals team he has ever seen.

Twibell says they need to blow this up big time...and there is no hope in sight for this poorly run franchise

No crap?!

Mr. Arrowhead
08-25-2009, 11:16 AM
but trey job is still safe right? lol

Sure-Oz
08-25-2009, 11:20 AM
I don't think the best manager and coaches could get close to .500 with the scrubs on this team.

DM should be watching his job mOOre imo

Sure-Oz
08-25-2009, 11:21 AM
From Baseball Prospectus (subscription) so this is a snippet of what you can see for free
Future Shock: The Alex Gordon Problem


So what went wrong? "I'm not sure what we all missed on," said another official. "It's just tough to say." However, in talk to numerous insiders, most hypotheses revolve around not enough or even bad player development. Gordon's first full year in the minor leagues was also his last, as he was the Royals' starting third baseman on Opening Day 2007. "My only thought [as to what went wrong] is that he was rushed up there pretty quickly," said one scouting director. "Then he was expected to anchor the middle of the order, which is tough for any young player."

Another front-office official echoed this same lament. "Forget the performance, the decorations, the hype," said one team official. "How many really good players can you name who had less than 500 at-bats at the minor league level? Think about prospects that you think were rushed even, and you'll see that most had more minor league games than that."

Reply | Quote

Deberg_1990
08-25-2009, 11:23 AM
Poz thinks this is the worst royals team he has ever seen.

Twibell says they need to blow this up big time...and there is no hope in sight for this poorly run franchise

No crap?!

Worse than 2002? 04-06 ??

Oh hell, they are all garbage....doesnt really matter.

Sure-Oz
08-25-2009, 11:26 AM
Worse than 2002? 04-06 ??

Oh hell, they are all garbage....doesnt really matter.

I'd say it's worse now since we were supposed to be building towards something....

petegz28
08-25-2009, 11:27 AM
I have pretty much resigned to the fact that I am not renewing my ticket package. I haven't even gone to the last 2 games I had tickets for and won't be going again tomorrow. I will probably attend 1 or 2 more just because I bought the damn things but I have no interest in supporting this team anymore, financially speaking.

Sure-Oz
08-25-2009, 11:29 AM
I feel bad for ya pete, you are die hard, hell i am...i say next year you just go to a few games. I have done that for awhile, they just haven't proved to do shit in a longtime to warrant any season package. bastards

I've only been to 2 games this year, way behind my normal pace. I've been deflated as a fan

Sure-Oz
08-25-2009, 11:33 AM
Royals: Joakim Soria, Billy Butler, and Zack Greinke. It’s hard to win with a three-man team, but that’s what the Royals are. They still haven’t signed top pick Aaron Crow (who wasn’t subject to the signing deadline), and now that Strasburg has received more than $15 million and Dustin Ackley $7.5 million (from Seattle), the price has gone up on Crow, who turned down $3.5 million from the Nationals last season. It’s 50-50 as to whether the Dayton Moore regime survives.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/artic les/2009/08/23/it_all_starts_with_starters/?page=f ull

50/50?? wow sticking your neck out there huh?!

petegz28
08-25-2009, 11:34 AM
I'd say it's worse now since we were supposed to be building towards something....

We are 30 games under .500, 19 back from 1st in our division, have yet another 5 game losing streak, have scored less than 600 runs, we avg, somehow, 4 runs a game. If you take away the first 29 games the stats are just tremendously worse.


I don't care how bad your talent is, it takes a real dumb **** of a coach to get this kind of performance.

But hey, we have a coach who has:

A) never played in the ML
B) never coached at any spot in the ML

It has nothing to do with him...../dayton moore

Sure-Oz
08-25-2009, 11:35 AM
We are 30 games under .500, 19 back from 1st in our division, have yet another 5 game losing streak, have scored less than 600 runs, we avg, somehow, 4 runs a game. If you take away the first 29 games the stats are just tremendously worse.


I don't care how bad your talent is, it takes a real dumb **** of a coach to get this kind of performance.

I'd say DM is the main reason we have this team....he set it up with guys that can't get on base or play defense. Like i said, no manager could get more out of these losers

Demonpenz
08-25-2009, 11:36 AM
we are going to regret not trading soria. He is coming back to earth

petegz28
08-25-2009, 11:36 AM
I feel bad for ya pete, you are die hard, hell i am...i say next year you just go to a few games. I have done that for awhile, they just haven't proved to do shit in a longtime to warrant any season package. bastards

I've only been to 2 games this year, way behind my normal pace. I've been deflated as a fan

I hate to give up my seats cause they are fucking awesome seats. But I have better things to spend my $'s on.

DeezNutz
08-25-2009, 11:37 AM
We are 30 games under .500, 19 back from 1st in our division, have yet another 5 game losing streak, have scored less than 600 runs, we avg, somehow, 4 runs a game. If you take away the first 29 games the stats are just tremendously worse.


I don't care how bad your talent is, it takes a real dumb **** of a coach to get this kind of performance.

How many more games could the best manager have won with this roster? 5? 8?

Fine. We're now 22 games under .500. So what's the difference, really?

The team can't hit, field, or pitch (out of the pen). Honestly, this is probably the worst-constructed team I have ever seen. If you can't hit, you damn well better be able to catch it. Strangely, DM said "Fuck it" on both accounts.

Sure-Oz
08-25-2009, 11:37 AM
Soria is a middle reliever now and pitches every 5 days, he's the new farnsy!

Sure-Oz
08-25-2009, 11:37 AM
I hate to give up my seats cause they are ****ing awesome seats. But I have better things to spend my $'s on.

They don't deserve fans like you, i say use that money for vacation savings

Fish
08-25-2009, 11:38 AM
I'm really lacking the motivation to head out tonight as well... although I probably will.

I'm telling myself that the fact that I don't have to drive will make it more enjoyable. At least I can drink. And a free T-shirt. Yeah, that's it. Free shirt.

Go Royals..... or somesuch nonsense...

Sure-Oz
08-25-2009, 11:38 AM
How many more games could the best manager have won with this roster? 5? 8?

Fine. We're now 22 games under .500. So what's the difference, really?

The team can't hit, field, or pitch (out of the pen). Honestly, this is probably the worst-constructed team I have ever seen. If you can't hit, you damn well better be able to catch it. Strangely, DM said "**** it" on both accounts.

I'd rather have herk robinson at this point

Sure-Oz
08-25-2009, 11:39 AM
I'm glad my grandma isnt alive to see this shit...she worked for the Royals for a long time and was around when they were atleast a decent team.

petegz28
08-25-2009, 11:40 AM
I'd say DM is the main reason we have this team....he set it up with guys that can't get on base or play defense. Like i said, no manager could get more out of these losers

I disagree. I think we were in several games where Hillman and Hillman alone cost us the game. Refusig to use Soria, not calling for SAC bunts when we need them, calling for SAC bunts when we don't need them, pulling hot hitters out of the lineup in the middle of a tie ball game, changing the luneup daily and then again during the game, not making hitters take pitches when we needed too, over-extending pitchers, terrible coaching on baserunning...I can go on.

The fact is, if Hillman was even an average Manager we have 15 more wins, easy.

Sure-Oz
08-25-2009, 11:42 AM
I disagree. I think we were in several games where Hillman and Hillman alone cost us the game. Refusig to use Soria, not calling for SAC bunts when we need them, calling for SAC bunts when we don't need them, pulling hot hitters out of the lineup in the middle of a tie ball game, changing the luneup daily and then again during the game, not making hitters take pitches when we needed too, over-extending pitchers, terrible coaching on baserunning...I can go on.

The fact is, if Hillman was even an average Manager we have 15 more wins, easy.

we're still a horrible team, i don't care what happens this team would still challenge for 100 losses

they are the definition of epic fail

petegz28
08-25-2009, 11:42 AM
How many more games could the best manager have won with this roster? 5? 8?

Fine. We're now 22 games under .500. So what's the difference, really?

The team can't hit, field, or pitch (out of the pen). Honestly, this is probably the worst-constructed team I have ever seen. If you can't hit, you damn well better be able to catch it. Strangely, DM said "**** it" on both accounts.

I disagree..I think Hillman has cost us double-digits....easy

DeezNutz
08-25-2009, 11:42 AM
The fact is, if Hillman was even an average Manager we have 15 more wins, easy.

Dude, the talent on the roster is dogshit.

You're underestimating their ability to suck at just the right moments.

Cut that figure in half, and I'd agree, but that's just a little lesser level of fucking shit.

Sure-Oz
08-25-2009, 11:43 AM
I disagree..I think Hillman has cost us double-digits....easy

We have horrible rp's we have really 1 good starter since Meche has a dying arm. Trey is to admit for the misuse of meche and others but this team wouldn't sniff playoffs in AAA

petegz28
08-25-2009, 11:43 AM
Dude, the talent on the roster is dogshit.

You're underestimating their ability to suck at just the right moments.

Cut that figure in half, and I'd agree, but that's just a little lesser level of ****ing shit.

Nope. I won't. I have my opinion and I am sticking to it. Trey Edwards has cost us 10+ games. Not to mention the shit moral I am sure he has going in the clubhouse.

DeezNutz
08-25-2009, 11:46 AM
Nope. I won't. I have my opinion and I am sticking to it. Trey Edwards has cost us 10+ games. Not to mention the shit moral I am sure he has going in the clubhouse.

I dislike Trey Edwards as a manager as much as anyone here. Well, close anyway. After all, I gave him his now popular name.

That said, GMs are far more important in baseball, and Dayton fucking sucks.

We need "Anyone but Dayton Moore" t-shirts to honor his successful moves, particularly the signing of Farnsy.

petegz28
08-25-2009, 11:47 AM
I dislike Trey Edwards as a manager as much as anyone here. Well, close anyway. After all, I gave him his now popular name.

That said, GMs are far more important in baseball, and Dayton ****ing sucks.

We need "Anyone but Dayton Moore" t-shirts to honor his successful moves, particularly the signing of Farnsy.

(sticks fingers in ears)

LALALALALALALALALALALALA
I am not listening
I hate Trey Hillman
Trey Hillman is the debil
LALALALALALALALALALALALA

Sure-Oz
08-25-2009, 11:50 AM
Let Mike Arbuckle run the show

Sure-Oz
08-25-2009, 11:50 AM
(sticks fingers in ears)

LALALALALALALALALALALALA
I am not listening
I hate Trey Hillman
Trey Hillman is the debil
LALALALALALALALALALALALA

Don't worry when DM goes so does Trey

Deberg_1990
08-25-2009, 11:53 AM
IM curious what moves DM will make to right the ship this offseason?

Complete blow up?

Sure-Oz
08-25-2009, 11:53 AM
IM curious what moves DM will make to right the ship this offseason?

Complete blow up?

We're a CFer and a middle reliever away /dayton/

petegz28
08-25-2009, 12:00 PM
I want Frank White as the ****ing manager TODAY! Why?

A) The mother ****er played in the ML and was damn good
B) The mother ****er has coached a AAA team and did good
C) The mother ****er has coached (assistant) in the ML for 2 teams
D) The mother ****er KNOWS BASEBALL!!
E) The mother ****er has the clout to command respect and buy-in from the players in the clubhouse
F) The mother ****er gives a genuine **** about the Royals being a good ball club

That's right...

Frank White is one bad mother fucker!

DeezNutz
08-25-2009, 12:05 PM
We're a CFer and a middle reliever away /dayton/

This roster is 85% complete. /Herm/

Strong is the dumbassery in these two.

Sure-Oz
08-26-2009, 11:21 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=4421089

Tuesday, August 25, 2009
Royals' early glee quickly turned sour

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jerry Crasnick
ESPN.com

The 2009 Royals have committed a sin that transcends poor pitching, hitting and defense: They're bad and they're nondescript.

Peruse the MLB Extra Innings package on a given night, and unless Zack Greinke is pitching for Kansas City, there's no compelling reason to linger. With the exception of a Billy Butler here and a Joakim Soria there, the Royals' roster is dotted with "4A" types, free-agent disappointments and guys such as Mark Teahen and David DeJesus -- solid professionals who would be complementary pieces on a winning club.


Zack Greinke is 1-2 with a 4.50 ERA in four starts in August.

They've bonded through shared suffering this summer. The Royals have the second-worst record in baseball at 47-77. They rank 25th in team ERA, 26th in runs scored and 27th in fielding percentage. They lack power and discipline at the plate and sure-handedness and range in the field, and they have a knack for killing the suspense early in games. They've been outscored 299 to 225 in the first four innings this season.

Who could have predicted that the Jose Guillen ingrown-toenail incident in spring training would be a contender for the team's highlight video?

This is not what the populace envisioned in March, when the Royals were a chic pick to make waves in the American League Central.

When general manager Dayton Moore roamed the back fields in spring training in Arizona, fans in Royals garb thanked him for bringing hope back to the city. The team had increased the payroll by 20 percent in conjunction with a $250 million renovation to Kauffman Stadium and enjoyed a feel-good moment in January when Greinke signed a four-year, $38 million contract extension. He cited the franchise's heightened commitment to winning as a factor in his decision.

The Royals began the season at 18-11 and led the division by three games on May 7. But there's not enough room -- even on the Internet -- to chronicle everything that has gone wrong since.

When Coco Crisp, Alex Gordon, Mike Aviles and Gil Meche got hurt, their absences exposed the Royals' lack of depth. The bullpen unraveled when Soria went on the disabled list for a month. And with the exception of Butler and Alberto Callaspo, no one in the lineup fits into the "pleasant surprise" category.

The Royals put too much faith in Kyle Davies based on a strong September last year. Sidney Ponson, Horacio Ramirez and Bruce Chen weren't the answer at the back of the rotation, and relievers Kyle Farnsworth and Juan Cruz have a combined ERA of 6.07. Mike Jacobs has a .307 on-base percentage and 101 strikeouts in 98 games, and Guillen's skills have diminished in the second year of his three-year, $36 million contract.

So now it has come to this: A Kansas City Star story Sunday posed the question, "Is this the Royals' most disappointing season ever?"

Moore, who took the Kansas City job in 2006 because he relished a challenge, remains outwardly undeterred. He says he's "accountable" for moves that haven't panned out, but stresses that the Royals are committed to building a winner the right way -- through scouting and player development.


We took a shot. We were very aggressive in trying to [win], and it didn't fall our way. But we're not discouraged. We're even more motivated than we were before about getting this organization back to where it was at one point in time.

” -- Royals general manager Dayton Moore

"We took a shot," Moore said. "We were very aggressive in trying to do it, and it didn't fall our way. But we're not discouraged. We're even more motivated than we were before about getting this organization back to where it was at one point in time."

There's conviction in Moore's words but a trace of weariness in his voice. He's a committed, sincere and widely respected executive. But three years into his tenure, the Royals are a candidate to lose 100 games for the fifth time this decade. Moore saw a window of opportunity to compete and took his shot, and now he's stuck with some bad contracts and a grim short-term horizon.

Amid Kansas City's 14th losing season in 15 years, several questions confront Moore and his front-office team. Most notably:

Is it time to back up the truck?

Moore was vilified in the media when he traded two minor league pitchers for Seattle shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt in July. Internally, the Royals felt they had no choice. Aviles underwent Tommy John surgery, and his career is in jeopardy. There's no solution in the system, and the winter's free-agent crop will consist of Jack Wilson, Bobby Crosby, Marco Scutaro and Orlando Cabrera.

Problem is, small-market clubs that patch here, caulk there and stockpile second-tier players who are "better than what we have" tend to prolong the floundering. Just ask the Orioles, who signed marginal free agents for years and haven't fielded a winner since 1997.

The Kansas City roster needs a major overhaul. But with the exception of Greinke and Soria, no one will fetch a mother lode of talent in trade. The Royals listened on almost everybody in July and determined they were better off keeping Teahen, DeJesus & Co. rather than taking middling prospects in return.

Soria is a dynamic closer and signed for a reasonable price through 2014, and some industry observers think the Royals would be wise to shop him for two or three good young pieces. It's a new slant on the old debate: If the Royals are going to win 65 games with him, why not capitalize on his value and win 62 without him?

Moore will speak only in general terms. But you have to believe the question will be raised during the winter.

"You have to be open-minded to deals of that nature that make your team better long-term," Moore said. "I understand that."

Is Alex Gordon a cornerstone player?

Justin Upton, Ryan Zimmerman and Ryan Braun have become All-Stars since breaking into pro ball as top-five picks in the 2005 draft. The wait endures for Gordon and former Mariner-turned-Pirate Jeff Clement.


Alex Gordon
#4 3B
Kansas City Royals
2009 STATS

GM29
HR3
RBI11
R13
OBP.300
AVG.198

Injuries haven't helped. Gordon suffered a broken nose on a bad-hop grounder late in his rookie year and missed three months with hip surgery this season. But the DL time isn't the only reason for concern: After 1,281 major league plate appearances, Gordon has a .741 OPS.

In the spring of 2008, Hall of Famer and Royals VP George Brett told ESPN.com that Gordon has the ability to be a "very, very special player." But Brett and former Royals hitting coach Mike Barnett both said Gordon's natural ability masked some serious mechanical flaws in the minors. Those problems were destined to surface in the big leagues.

"I figured he was going to get in trouble," Brett said in March 2008. "His spine angle was terrible. He was hitting off his back leg, and he wasn't getting through the ball. Every ball was hit to right field and had topspin on it. It was one of those things where I said, 'How do you change a kid who's never failed?'"

Gordon has proven he's committed in the weight room, but it remains to be seen whether he can make the necessary adjustments on the field.

"He's a classic case of what happens when you have a bad club and rush somebody through and put him in the big leagues and paint him as the savior," an AL scout said. "Some of these kids don't understand that they have negatives and things they need to do better to become good players, because they really haven't had to pay their dues."

Gordon, hitting .198 in 96 at-bats, was at the center of a miniflap last week when the Royals sent him to Triple-A Omaha for a refresher course. The move could delay Gordon's free agency from 2012 to 2013, but Moore insists that it was strictly a baseball decision and had nothing to do with economics.

Unless Gordon is better than he has shown so far, the timetable for his free agency is the least of the Royals' concerns.

Is there salvation on the farm?

Of the 25 players currently on the roster, only five -- Greinke, Butler, DeJesus, Mitch Maier and Luke Hochevar -- were homegrown.

"For us to be successful, that has to be more like 60 percent of our roster," Moore said. "That's why we're putting so much emphasis and resources into our farm system."


Aaron Crow, the Royals' first-round pick in the '09 draft, remains unsigned.

The Royals have become more assertive since former GM Allard Baird was groping through the sofa cushions for spare change to sign college seniors to $1,000 bonuses. They spent a record $11.1 million on draft picks last year -- a total since surpassed by Washington -- and Baseball America upgraded the farm system from 24th to No. 11 this season.

Problem is, there's no impact help on the immediate horizon. Outfielders David Lough and Jordan Parraz and shortstop Jeff Bianchi are potential contributors off the Double-A Northwest Arkansas roster, but the crown jewels are with Wilmington in the Class A Carolina League.

Lefty pitcher Danny Duffy is 8-3 with a 3.22 ERA and averaging a strikeout an inning. Eric Hosmer and Mike Moustakas, highly regarded former first-round picks, are both taking their lumps. Moustakas is hitting .252 with a .718 OPS and 21 errors in Wilmington, and Hosmer is batting .239 in two stops.

The Royals have until the 2010 draft to sign former Missouri pitcher Aaron Crow. Rest assured they're not going to let him get away.

What's the owner's patience level?

Royals owner David Glass made his displeasure readily apparent in July. After consenting to increase the payroll from $58 million to $70 million, the last thing Glass expected was a regression.

"None of us are happy with what we have or where we are," Glass told the Kansas City Star's Bob Dutton. "What you do to let the fans know you're as frustrated as they are is you keep improving the team. And that's what we're going to do."

The Glass family deserves some credit for pumping money into the draft and the Latin-American operation. Moore brought over J.J. Picollo from Atlanta to run the scouting operation, and senior adviser Mike Arbuckle built a solid track record in 15 seasons with Philadelphia.

But history shows that building a really good team from within takes a long time. The Rockies, Twins and Phillies are among the clubs that suffered for years before their talent coalesced in the big leagues.

"We all know that it's a process," said Moore, who speaks from personal experience. He came to Kansas City from Atlanta, where the Braves posted a 389-577 record before John Schuerholz and Bobby Cox led the team to 14 straight division titles.

Who stays, and who goes?

The Royals have an $8 million option (with a $500,000 buyout) on center fielder Coco Crisp. He's coming off shoulder surgery, so we can assume they'll take a pass.


We understand the frustration that people feel. Losing is not acceptable, and we will continue to search for solutions to improve our major league team. I'm not going to make excuses, but it's been broken here for a long time. We all knew the challenges we faced when we came here to Kansas City. We have a very small margin for error.

” -- Moore

The team is committed to about $51 million in guaranteed money to Guillen, Greinke, Meche, DeJesus and five other players, and Moore has some decisions to make with his arbitration-eligible players. It's a good bet the Royals will tender contracts to Teahen and pitcher Brian Bannister. Jacobs and catcher John Buck might not be so lucky. Rather than spend $4 million-plus on Jacobs, the Royals might want to take a look at infielder Kila Ka'aihue, who has 130 homers in eight minor league seasons.

Moore and manager Trey Hillman, both of whom are signed through 2010, have endured their share of scrutiny. But the Glass family is apparently still on board, and the latest rumor in baseball circles is that David Glass is contemplating a contract extension for Moore.

For all the knocks Moore has taken, nobody knows what pressures he's subject to from above. Given the investment in Kauffman Stadium and the desire to increase the season-ticket base, the Glass family's expectation level had to be higher this year.

"In fairness to Dayton, it's hard to judge until you know the internal dynamics," an AL executive said. "If the owner says, 'We need to have a competitive team this year, and we can't win 68 or 70 games,' then the general manager has to try and execute ownership's goals."

Now that the Royals took their shot, jumped the gun with some bad free-agent signings and flopped, do they have the conviction to take a step back in advance of two steps forward?

The Pirates blew up their roster this season, and if you surveyed front-office executives, the majority would tell you that Pittsburgh is in a better position than Kansas City right now. How's that for bad news, Royals die-hards?

"We understand the frustration that people feel," Moore said. "Losing is not acceptable, and we will continue to search for solutions to improve our major league team. I'm not going to make excuses, but it's been broken here for a long time. We all knew the challenges we faced when we came here to Kansas City. We have a very small margin for error."

It's getting smaller all the time.

Sure-Oz
08-26-2009, 11:29 AM
http://www.huskerextra.com/articles/2009/08/25/baseball/doc4a9343e1bce42612791333.txt?orss=1

Steven M. Sipple: Gordon says lack of confidence not a problem

OMAHA — Alex Gordon doesn’t mince words about his current place in the world. This isn’t a rehab assignment. This is a demotion. He was sent down.

There’s no other way to say it.

That said, there are a few different ways the former Lincoln Southeast and Nebraska standout could’ve responded to being optioned last week from the Kansas City Royals to Triple-A Omaha. Based on our conversation Monday afternoon, I’m guessing Gordon is responding just fine, thank you.

Gordon, the No. 2 overall pick in the 2005 draft, isn’t always the most expressive person in the world. But when asked about Kansas City manager Trey Hillman’s recent comments regarding Gordon’s demotion, Alex showed some genuine fire.

Hillman had said Gordon was sent down to relieve pressure and “to put a little joy back in the game.”

To which Gordon replied: “He says my confidence was down and I wasn’t having fun. But I mean, you could talk to any of my teammates, and they know my personality. You might not see that I’m having a great time out there (on the field). But really I am. If you don’t know me that well, maybe that’s not how I come across.

“As far as confidence, my confidence is fine. I wasn’t playing up to my capabilities, but I wasn’t doubting myself at all. And I was having fun every day, enjoying my teammates and everything. So I wasn’t expecting (Hillman’s comments), especially to come out to the media and say that. That was a little disappointing.”

Translation: Calm and cool Alex is fired up, perhaps somewhat fed up, and that’s understandable. He’s endured a rough season, his third with Kansas City. He suffered a hip injury in the first week of the season, underwent major surgery April 17 and missed three months. After a grueling rehab stint, he returned to the majors and hit .227 in 22 games. He struck out nine times in his last 25 at-bats, and some suggested he looked tentative at third base.

Then came the bad news.

It was Aug. 17, right after a night game in Chicago against the White Sox. He had showered, dressed and was walking out of the clubhouse. Before he reached the exit, he was summoned by Hillman.

“I kind of knew something was up,” Gordon said. “The first thing I thought was, ‘Gosh, I got traded.’”

The meeting went quickly. Gordon was told he was being sent down. One of the Kansas City coaches told him, “Go down (to Omaha) and get your work in, and hopefully we’ll see you in a couple weeks.”

Gordon was surprised, and disappointed.

“No one wants to get sent down,” he said Monday before his sixth game with Omaha. “You take it for what it’s worth. I’m here now. The season’s almost over, so you have to make the best of it, and hopefully finish up strong.”

Gordon typically keeps life pretty simple. While he’s in Omaha, he said, he wants to work hard, be a good teammate and produce. To that end, he’s working on keeping both hands on the bat throughout his follow-through.

“When I got called up (after his rehab assignment), Trey came to me and said I was letting go too early,” Gordon said. “I like the adjustment. I notice the difference in being able to drive the ball the other way. To change it halfway through the season, it’s been a little difficult to get used to. But I like what it’s doing.”

Gordon insists he isn’t feeling pressure — he said he hasn’t felt it since the first couple weeks of his rookie season in 2007. Everybody was expecting so much, and really, he’s never measured up at the plate. Doubters fire away on message boards and talk radio. His situation has become desperate, they say.

If Gordon’s career is at a crossroads, he seems to be handling it well. Some suggest he will benefit from playing in front of Nebraska fans, near his hometown.

He plays down that notion. This is his job, he said, and he’d approach it the same way no matter where he was playing. His family understands that, he said.

“They know I’m here to work, and hopefully get back up there (to K.C.),” Gordon said right before taking his rips in batting practice.

He roped line drives, like the Alex of old. It’s still there, he has no doubt. He smiled and chatted with teammates.

“I don’t want people to think I was a mental case or not having fun,” he reiterated. “I really don’t think that was the case at all.”

Reach Steven M. Sipple at 473-7440 or ssipple@journalstar.com.

Sure-Oz
08-27-2009, 09:27 PM
08/27/09 9:47 PM ET
Guillen, Jacobs bury the hatchet
Royals players engage in scuffle on Wednesday

By Dick Kaegel / MLB.com
SEATTLE -- Things have been smoothed over after a confrontation between Royals players Mike Jacobs and Jose Guillen as the team arrived in Seattle.

Guillen and Jacobs went nose-to-nose outside the club's Seattle hotel after getting off the team bus on Wednesday night. Witnesses said they were arguing and were separated by teammates Miguel Olivo and Brayan Pena. There was a brief scuffle and witnesses said mediators Olivo and Pena were on the receiving end of errant blows.

Things quieted down immediately and the team entered the hotel without further incident.

"Just a misunderstanding. Obviously you don't want to have misunderstandings with a teammate but sometimes you do," Jacobs said. "It's OK. We kissed and made up."

Guillen, on the disabled list but traveling with the club, did not want to discuss the matter.

"Stuff happens," Guillen said. "We deal with that as professionals."

Manager Trey Hillman, who had already entered the hotel, declined to comment as did Olivo. Pena acknowledged getting in the middle of things.

"I was a peacemaker," he said.

Jacobs said he considered the incident with Guillen closed.

"We're all good. He's probably one of the closest guys on this team -- me and him are pretty close to each other," Jacobs said. "I chalk it up to one of those things like a misunderstanding with a brother or something like that. We're obviously spending seven, eight months out of the year with each other now."

All seemed serene in the Royals' clubhouse before Thursday night's game against the Mariners.

"No big deal," Jacobs said.

Dick Kaegel is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.


Gotta love team chemistry!

Reaper16
08-27-2009, 09:28 PM
08/27/09 9:47 PM ET
Guillen, Jacobs bury the hatchet
Royals players engage in scuffle on Wednesday

By Dick Kaegel / MLB.com
SEATTLE -- Things have been smoothed over after a confrontation between Royals players Mike Jacobs and Jose Guillen as the team arrived in Seattle.

Guillen and Jacobs went nose-to-nose outside the club's Seattle hotel after getting off the team bus on Wednesday night. Witnesses said they were arguing and were separated by teammates Miguel Olivo and Brayan Pena. There was a brief scuffle and witnesses said mediators Olivo and Pena were on the receiving end of errant blows.

Things quieted down immediately and the team entered the hotel without further incident.

"Just a misunderstanding. Obviously you don't want to have misunderstandings with a teammate but sometimes you do," Jacobs said. "It's OK. We kissed and made up."

Guillen, on the disabled list but traveling with the club, did not want to discuss the matter.

"Stuff happens," Guillen said. "We deal with that as professionals."

Manager Trey Hillman, who had already entered the hotel, declined to comment as did Olivo. Pena acknowledged getting in the middle of things.

"I was a peacemaker," he said.

Jacobs said he considered the incident with Guillen closed.

"We're all good. He's probably one of the closest guys on this team -- me and him are pretty close to each other," Jacobs said. "I chalk it up to one of those things like a misunderstanding with a brother or something like that. We're obviously spending seven, eight months out of the year with each other now."

All seemed serene in the Royals' clubhouse before Thursday night's game against the Mariners.

"No big deal," Jacobs said.

Dick Kaegel is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.


Gotta love team chemistry!
You suck!

No, you suck!

*scuffle*

Sure-Oz
08-27-2009, 09:30 PM
You suck!

No, you suck!

*scuffle*

Apparently they kissed and made up, and jacobs say's they're real close.

Shit happens between couples at times, this is just another instance

DeezNutz
08-27-2009, 09:33 PM
They were arguing over who played better defense.

Demonpenz
08-27-2009, 09:33 PM
we deal like this as professinals. by fighting with fists

DeezNutz
08-27-2009, 09:35 PM
we deal like this as professinals. by fighting with fists

MMA, FTMFW.

Ken Harvey would have risen above this bullshit.

Sure-Oz
08-27-2009, 09:37 PM
I remember going to a tbones game last year and seeing harvey play 1b, he got a single to right and injured himself running to first and fell. That fat bastard was an All Star once, ****ing wow....

I remember him leaving communityamerica ballpark and it looked like he was headed to his car after he got hurt, lol

Bo Hart took over after that, he had 2 hrs and 5 rbis, but the tbones still lost 10-8

DeezNutz
08-27-2009, 09:41 PM
I remember going to a tbones game last year and seeing harvey play 1b, he got a single to right and injured himself running to first and fell. That fat bastard was an All Star once, ****ing wow....

I remember him leaving communityamerica ballpark and it looked like he was headed to his car after he got hurt, lol

Bo Hart took over after that, he had 2 hrs and 5 rbis, but the tbones still lost 10-8

LMAO

BigRock
08-27-2009, 09:47 PM
Olivo and Pena were on the receiving end of errant blows.

Perfect. Jake and Jose can't even get hits in a fistfight.

ChiTown
08-27-2009, 09:48 PM
Until the Glass Family sells this team, we will endure the suckage they we have come accustomed to. 14 of the last 15 years have been losing seasons. Let that tasty morsel run around your brain for a minute..............The Common Denominator? David Glass - Chairman of the Board since 93 and Owner since 2000.



JFC!

DeezNutz
08-27-2009, 09:55 PM
Perfect. Jake and Jose can't even get hits in a fistfight.

I think the writer was mistaken because there's no way Olivo would block anything with his body.

SPchief
08-27-2009, 10:06 PM
The Royals have hit 4 homers so far tonight in Seattle

DeezNutz
08-27-2009, 10:06 PM
The Royals have hit 4 homers so far tonight in Seattle

The pitcher should quit throwing at Seattle fans.

Demonpenz
08-27-2009, 10:16 PM
DDJ is consistant as hell

DeezNutz
08-27-2009, 10:18 PM
DDJ is consistant as hell when he's in the leadoff spot

FYP

Sure-Oz
08-28-2009, 01:34 PM
Ron Mahay-R-Royals Aug. 28 - 2:13 pm et

The Twins are close to acquiring LHP Ron Mahay from the Royals, according to FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal.

No word on the return yet. Mahay had been designated for assignment this week and the Twins were a rumored suitor. He'd be a decent companion to Jose Mijares, who has been dealing but is currently the only southpaw in the Twins' pen now that Brian Duensing is in the rotation. The 38-year-old Mahay hasn't been nearly as efficient against lefties this season as ones previous, but if he can put it together and avoid righties he'll be a nice piece for the Twins down the stretch.
Source: FOXSports.com
Related: Twins

Reaper16
08-30-2009, 04:16 PM
Zack Greinke followed up his 15-strikeout performance by throwing a Complete Game shutout against Seattle today. He one-hit the Mariners, lowering his league-leading ERA to 2.32.

doomy3
08-30-2009, 04:21 PM
Zack Greinke followed up his 15-strikeout performance by throwing a Complete Game shutout against Seattle today. He one-hit the Mariners, lowering his league-leading ERA to 2.32.

That was a hell of an outing. He just kept getting stronger as the game went along.

CaliforniaChief
08-30-2009, 04:23 PM
Big performance for Cy Young candidacy. I'm sure they'll find a way to screw him over, though.

WoodDraw
08-30-2009, 04:29 PM
Big performance for Cy Young candidacy. I'm sure they'll find a way to screw him over, though.

Yep. If he keeps pitching like this that will become harder to do. I wish I would have caught more of the game. Loved his post-game interview as always.

Deberg_1990
08-30-2009, 04:31 PM
Have they ever given a Cy Young award to a pitcher on a last place team?

chiefqueen
08-30-2009, 07:08 PM
Have they ever given a Cy Young award to a pitcher on a last place team?

Ask Steve Carlton.

Deberg_1990
08-30-2009, 07:16 PM
Ask Steve Carlton.

heh, yea i looked that up. he had like 27 wins that year and the team only had 59.

I think the only way Grienke has a chance is if he leads the league in wins.

Reaper16
08-30-2009, 07:18 PM
heh, yea i looked that up. he had like 27 wins that year and the team only had 59.

I think the only way Grienke has a chance is if he leads the league in wins.
Which is fucking retarded. He only has two fewer wins than the league leader, CC Sabathia, does. Also, Zack has NINE starts where he's taken a loss or a no-decision despite going at least 7 IP with 3 ER or less. Greinke is not just the best pitcher in the league, he's the best pitcher BY FAR.

tk13
08-30-2009, 07:25 PM
Greinke today was also the 4th pitcher since 1900 to follow up a 15+ K performance with a one-hitter. The other three were Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, and Vida Blue.

Reaper16
08-30-2009, 08:33 PM
In the words of Joe Posnanski: "Zack Greinke now leads the AL in ERA, ERA+, shutouts, complete games, WHIP, HRs/9 and second in strikeouts and Ks/BB. This really isn't that hard."

BWillie
08-30-2009, 09:38 PM
It's going to be a crying shame when Josh Beckett or CC Sabathia wins the Cy Young over Greinke. But it could happen - Angel Berroa won rookie of the year. How did that happen

MIAdragon
08-30-2009, 09:43 PM
It's going to be a crying shame when Josh Beckett or CC Sabathia wins the Cy Young over Greinke. But it could happen - Angel Berroa won rookie of the year. How did that happen

relax Greinke will win it with cc coming in 2nd

DeezNutz
08-30-2009, 09:44 PM
Are the Royals still playing? /wearing Nats gear/

WilliamTheIrish
08-30-2009, 09:53 PM
He was sure good today. Love Z, hate the rest of the franchise.

blazzin311
08-30-2009, 09:57 PM
As much as I hate to say it Greinke has really become the only reason to watch this abortion of a team anymore. Sad but true. However props to Greinke for still doin his thing. I see a Cy Young in his near future. Assuming he doesn't get screwed over.

Reaper16
08-30-2009, 09:57 PM
He was sure good today. Love Z, hate the rest of the franchise.
Screw you, buddy! Mitch Maier is on a power surge!

BWillie
08-30-2009, 09:59 PM
As much as I hate to say it Greinke has really become the only reason to watch this abortion of a team anymore. Sad but true. However props to Greinke for still doin his thing. I see a Cy Young in his near future. Assuming he doesen't get screwed over.

You know, I don't know if Greinke even cares that much anymore. I mean, the guy is crazy you know. He used to throw that 50 mph lob when he got bored. Wasn't even really a change up. Just lobbed it. The last two starts he had it in his mind he was going to strike out as much motherf*ckers as he could. This game he obviously wanted to see how far he could go into the games and limit his pitch count. I think he was actually just trying different approaches on the extreme parts of each spectrum and look what happened - he still pitched two great games both ways. That is how good he is.

WilliamTheIrish
08-30-2009, 10:28 PM
Which is ****ing retarded. He only has two fewer wins than the league leader, CC Sabathia, does. Also, Zack has NINE starts where he's taken a loss or a no-decision despite going at least 7 IP with 3 ER or less. Greinke is not just the best pitcher in the league, he's the best pitcher BY FAR.

Verlander is also ahead of him in the win column.

Reaper16
08-30-2009, 10:41 PM
Verlander is also ahead of him in the win column.
What the fuck ever. So are Beckett and Scott Feldman.

Sure-Oz
08-31-2009, 12:51 PM
via royals report twitter....

Royals reach tentative agreement to extend GM Dayton Moore's contract through 2014. More soon at kcstar.com.

FML

petegz28
08-31-2009, 12:52 PM
via royals report twitter....

Royals reach tentative agreement to extend GM Dayton Moore's contract through 2014. More soon at kcstar.com.

FML

This is not a surprise. The one I am waiting on is Hillman.

ChiTown
08-31-2009, 12:52 PM
via royals report twitter....

Royals reach tentative agreement to extend GM Dayton Moore's contract through 2014. More soon at kcstar.com.

FML

Royals set to extend Moore’s contract through 2014

By BOB DUTTON
The Kansas City Star

OAKLAND, Calif. | The Royals have reached a tentative agreement with general manager Dayton Moore on a four-year contract extension that runs through 2014.

The new deal could be announced as soon as tonight.

The move confirms owner David Glass’ belief that Moore has the organization pointed in the right direction despite this season’s disappointing play. The Royals carried a 50-80 record into Monday’s series opener against the A’s at the Oakland Coliseum.

Moore became the club’s general manager on May 30, 2006. The club’s record improved in his first two full seasons before this year’s slide.

sedated
08-31-2009, 12:58 PM
via royals report twitter....

Royals reach tentative agreement to extend GM Dayton Moore's contract through 2014. More soon at kcstar.com.

FML

good. at least give him a chance to see if the improvements in scouting and development in the minors will work.

Sure-Oz
08-31-2009, 01:00 PM
good. at least give him a chance to see if the improvements in scouting and development in the minors will work.

I knew this would be coming anyway, i think they gave him an extra year though. We'll see what happens, can it get worse?

DeezNutz
08-31-2009, 01:01 PM
I knew this would be coming anyway, i think they gave him an extra year though. We'll see what happens, can it get worse?

Yes, it can.

DM is in over his head.

petegz28
08-31-2009, 01:23 PM
Yes, it can.

DM is in over his head.

Firing Hillman is a step in the right direction. Maier may turn out to be ok if his bat continues. Moore needs to have an off-season of not over-paying average talent. In other words, he has to learn from the mistakes he has made and quit this bullshit he is doing with the whole "process" talk.

Get a guy in here that can actually coach a ML baseball team and go from there.

DeezNutz
08-31-2009, 01:24 PM
Firing Hillman is a step in the right direction. Maier may turn out to be ok if his bat continues. Moore needs to have an off-season of not over-paying average talent. In other words, he has to learn from the mistakes he has made and quit this bullshit he is doing with the whole "process" talk.

Get a guy in here that can actually coach a ML baseball team and go from there.

I'd be great with all of the above, but I think we're hoping and wishing.

The vast majority of evidence indicates that DM doesn't know what the fuck he's doing.

sedated
08-31-2009, 02:03 PM
The vast majority of evidence indicates that DM doesn't know what the **** he's doing.

I’m holding out hope that this year has been so bad because of his desire to win now, and that hope pushing his hand on deals he might not normally make.

petegz28
08-31-2009, 02:07 PM
DM to have a tele-conference soon...will be on 810

DeezNutz
08-31-2009, 02:08 PM
I’m holding out hope that this year has been so bad because of his desire to win now, and that hope pushing his hand on deals he might not normally make.

Hope this is right...

petegz28
08-31-2009, 04:40 PM
Moore says Hillman is the right person for the dugout.......


this is a joke I hope

petegz28
08-31-2009, 04:41 PM
Moore also said we won't enter into long term contracts with current ML players cause it may jeopardize the players we have coming up in the system...


all in all what I heard from Moore was Hillman will continue to be the skipper of a team full of AAA players

Ari Chi3fs
08-31-2009, 04:43 PM
ROYALS EXTEND SUCKAGE THROUGH 2014

The Kansas City Royals today announced they have extended the contract of General Manager Dayton Moore through the 2014 season. Moore has exercised his option for 2011 with the Royals extending the deal to cover the 2012, 2013 and 2014 seasons. Consistent with club policy, terms of the extension were not disclosed.

"Although it has been a disappointing season," said Royals' President Dan Glass, "I believe we are heading in the right direction and Dayton is an important part of the process."

Chat live with Dayton on Tuesday, September 8th at 3:00 p.m. CT during the next monthly online Royals Relay chat

petegz28
08-31-2009, 04:45 PM
ROYALS EXTEND SUCKAGE THROUGH 2014

The Kansas City Royals today announced they have extended the contract of General Manager Dayton Moore through the 2014 season. Moore has exercised his option for 2011 with the Royals extending the deal to cover the 2012, 2013 and 2014 seasons. Consistent with club policy, terms of the extension were not disclosed.

"Although it has been a disappointing season," said Royals' President Dan Glass, "I believe we are heading in the right direction and Dayton is an important part of the process."

Chat live with Dayton on Tuesday, September 8th at 3:00 p.m. CT during the next monthly online Royals Relay chat


Wow, you're only like 10 posts behind....

Ari Chi3fs
08-31-2009, 04:46 PM
Im sure pete said something smartassed... but thank God for ignore...

Deberg_1990
08-31-2009, 05:16 PM
Ill go on record right now and say the Royals continue to suck through 2014 then.


What a joke.

DeezNutz
08-31-2009, 05:25 PM
Ill go on record right now and say the Royals continue to suck through 2014 then.


What a joke.

He'll be fired after 2010, and Glass will say that the buyout owed to Moore prevents the club from making significant moves in FA.

Sure-Oz
08-31-2009, 06:33 PM
DM better blow up this roster

ChiTown
09-01-2009, 09:03 AM
DM better blow up this roster

ROFL

Yes, they plan to get rid of Bryan Pena and sign Buck to a 5-yr extension.

THAT FUGGER JUST GOT DONE BLOWED UP!1!1!1!1

TO THE TOILET!

I hate this franchise...............

petegz28
09-01-2009, 09:28 AM
ROFL

Yes, they plan to get rid of Bryan Pena and sign Buck to a 5-yr extension.

THAT FUGGER JUST GOT DONE BLOWED UP!1!1!1!1

TO THE TOILET!

I hate this franchise...............

Please tell me you jest in getting rid of Pena??

ChiTown
09-01-2009, 09:30 AM
Please tell me you jest in getting rid of Pena??

Yes. Deez was talking about blowing this thing up, and I mocked that the organization will blow this up by trading Pena and signing Bucky to an ext.

Come on, you know me better than that.

petegz28
09-01-2009, 09:35 AM
Yes. Deez was talking about blowing this thing up, and I mocked that the organization will blow this up by trading Pena and signing Bucky to an ext.

Come on, you know me better than that.

Well, the problem is that what you said is all too possible for this organization. I thought I had missed something.

BWillie
09-01-2009, 10:37 AM
DM has David Glass wrapped around his finger. He must really be an influential individual. Somewhere Allan Baird is saying this is bullsh*t. Pretty sure Baird could of done a much better job if he was given the #15 ranked payroll in the MLB.

Jerm
09-01-2009, 10:41 AM
Just looking at it logically...what has DM accomplished to earn an extension???

Nothing, seriously.
Posted via Mobile Device

Sure-Oz
09-01-2009, 11:19 AM
We need 3 catchers starting in the lineup everyday, you know incase the other gets hurt they can just switch

Sure-Oz
09-01-2009, 11:20 AM
DM has David Glass wrapped around his finger. He must really be an influential individual. Somewhere Allan Baird is saying this is bullsh*t. Pretty sure Baird could of done a much better job if he was given the #15 ranked payroll in the MLB.

I'm sure baird enjoys being a scout for the red sox, i bet he gets lots of boooooston chicks

chiefsfan987
09-01-2009, 11:25 AM
DM has David Glass wrapped around his finger. He must really be an influential individual. Somewhere Allan Baird is saying this is bullsh*t. Pretty sure Baird could of done a much better job if he was given the #15 ranked payroll in the MLB.

Who the heck is Allan Baird? I think you mean Allard.

sedated
09-01-2009, 11:48 AM
Just looking at it logically...what has DM accomplished to earn an extension???

Nothing, seriously.
Posted via Mobile Device

on the major league level, he signed up a couple guys that we would have never signed in the past.

but he came in with his first priority being minor leagues. DM mentioned in his press conference that most of the minor league affiliates are in first place, including an A-ball suad that gets numerous compliments from pundits saying it is one of the best collections of talent they have seen in a while.

Sure-Oz
09-01-2009, 11:55 AM
It doesn't mean crap unless they get up here and produce....i like how he is spending in the minor league level but its still a crap shoot...and lets hope it works in our favor.

the MLB level he has no clue wtf he is doing so far

DeezNutz
09-01-2009, 11:57 AM
on the major league level, he signed up a couple guys that we would have never signed in the past.

but he came in with his first priority being minor leagues. DM mentioned in his press conference that most of the minor league affiliates are in first place, including an A-ball suad that gets numerous compliments from pundits saying it is one of the best collections of talent they have seen in a while.

And he's also completely changed his approach to the minor league system. When he arrived, it was HS, high-upside players. No more.

Now, college is the way to go, with some HS players in the mix. Oops.

But trust the process.

DM is a complete fucking idiot, and I would encourage everyone to check out Mellinger's blog and follow up on the links he provides in the middle of the blog: http://royalsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/437

Some great arguments made to explain exactly why DM is clueless.

Sure-Oz
09-01-2009, 12:00 PM
And he's also completely changed his approach to the minor league system. When he arrived, it was HS, high-upside players. No more.

Now, college is the way to go, with some HS players in the mix. Oops.

But trust the process.

DM is a complete ****ing idiot, and I would encourage everyone to check out Mellinger's blog and follow up on the links he provides in the middle of the blog: http://royalsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/437

Some great arguments made to explain exactly why DM is clueless.

the whole signing and trading for guys who cant get on base told me enough

DeezNutz
09-01-2009, 12:01 PM
I have no clue how someone, anyone, isn't held immediately accountable for the circus that was last night's game.

Bale and Hochevar, congrats you ****ing scrubs! It takes a lot of effort to work one's way into the Royals Hall of Shit.

DeezNutz
09-01-2009, 12:01 PM
the whole signing and trading for guys who cant get on base told me enough

Apparently the high upside for Hosmer is that one day he'll be able to see.

Solid!

Reaper16
09-01-2009, 12:18 PM
I have no clue how someone, anyone, isn't held immediately accountable for the circus that was last night's game.

Bale and Hochevar, congrats you ****ing scrubs! It takes a lot of effort to work one's way into the Royals Hall of Shit.
That throw from Bale was absolutely wince-inducing.

Demonpenz
09-01-2009, 12:21 PM
i had the game on my second 15 screen tv and saw them throw the ball around the infield can someone describe better what went down though? I was playing battlefield 1943

Reaper16
09-01-2009, 12:27 PM
From a commenter on Poz' blog:

"I nominate anyone who doesn’t pursue players based solely on how they performed against the Atlanta Braves. Gil Meche’s lowest ERA? Against the Braves. Betancourt’s highest OPS? Against the Braves. Jacobs’ most home runs? Against the Braves. Olivo’s most homers? Also against the Braves. Willie Bloomquist has an OPS of 1.100 against the Braves. Coco Crisp has an OPS of 1.016 against the Braves. There are only four teams that Jose Guillen has a better OPS against than the Braves. Kyle Farnsworth actually sucked when facing the Braves, but the lowest ERA he’s ever had? Yeah, that was while pitching FOR the Braves. Horacio Ramirez had few highlights in his big league career, but they all came with the Atlanta Braves, too."

DeezNutz
09-01-2009, 12:34 PM
i had the game on my second 15 screen tv and saw them throw the ball around the infield can someone describe better what went down though? I was playing battlefield 1943

Hochevar: Bloomquist's throw to the plate was off. Hoch was backing it up, but still let the ball get by him. There's now a runner on 2nd.

Hoch, puts his head down, doesn't pay a bit of attention, and the runner takes off to third. Solid camera work, as everyone in the park, sans Luke, sees the play developing.

Bale: 1st and 3rd, 1 out. Ball up the box, Bale makes a nice stab and turn to start a very easy DP, due to how quickly he received the ball.

Bale makes one of the most awkward looking throws one can imagine, think a combo of Orton and the black dude from Revenge of the Nerds, and misses 2B to the 1B side by about 20 feet. Amazingly poor throw.

DeezNutz
09-01-2009, 12:35 PM
From a commenter on Poz' blog:

"I nominate anyone who doesn’t pursue players based solely on how they performed against the Atlanta Braves. Gil Meche’s lowest ERA? Against the Braves. Betancourt’s highest OPS? Against the Braves. Jacobs’ most home runs? Against the Braves. Olivo’s most homers? Also against the Braves. Willie Bloomquist has an OPS of 1.100 against the Braves. Coco Crisp has an OPS of 1.016 against the Braves. There are only four teams that Jose Guillen has a better OPS against than the Braves. Kyle Farnsworth actually sucked when facing the Braves, but the lowest ERA he’s ever had? Yeah, that was while pitching FOR the Braves. Horacio Ramirez had few highlights in his big league career, but they all came with the Atlanta Braves, too."

The Braves know what success looks like. /Dumbass Moore/

Mizzou_8541
09-01-2009, 12:36 PM
I didn't see it (my wife and I just had our first child last night!) but Bale's throw sounds eerily similar to Jamey Wright's attempt to turn a double play in Anaheim when he launched the ball into center field...it was the series that basically started our meteoric fall to where we are now.

Demonpenz
09-01-2009, 12:37 PM
Hochevar: Bloomquist's throw to the plate was off. Hoch was backing it up, but still let the ball get by him. There's now a runner on 2nd.

Hoch, puts his head down, doesn't pay a bit of attention, and the runner takes off to third. Solid camera work, as everyone in the park, sans Luke, sees the play developing.

Bale: 1st and 3rd, 1 out. Ball up the box, Bale makes a nice stab and turn to start a very easy DP, due to how quickly he received the ball.

Bale makes one of the most awkward looking throws one can imagine, think a combo of Orton and the black dude from Revenge of the Nerds, and misses 2B to the 1B side by about 20 feet. Amazingly poor throw.


LMAO lamar?

DeezNutz
09-01-2009, 12:39 PM
LMAO lamar?

Yep. Fucking javelin.

DeezNutz
09-01-2009, 12:40 PM
I didn't see it (my wife and I just had our first child last night!) but Bale's throw sounds eerily similar to Jamey Wright's attempt to turn a double play in Anaheim when he launched the ball into center field...it was the series that basically started our meteoric fall to where we are now.

Congrats!

You should name the yuut John.

Mizzou_8541
09-01-2009, 12:43 PM
Congrats!

You should name the yuut John.

I was thinking Yuniesky?

CaliforniaChief
09-08-2009, 10:22 PM
Do you guys think Chris Young of the Diamondbacks could be had? He's having a horrible year this year, but has demonstrated the ability to be a 25/25 guy, and has all kinds of physical talent. I don't know, he kind of reminds me of a Jermaine Dye kind of player, who had high expectations and some results in his first place and then found his stride later. I'd love to see if he could be our centerfielder. But maybe this is just crazy. Just a thought.

Sure-Oz
09-08-2009, 10:33 PM
He's been pretty bad, but he did recently have a 3 hr game...

he has talent but i haven't seen much...i'm sure DM will go for a 29 year old OF'er that can't get on base but has good defense

CaliforniaChief
09-08-2009, 10:41 PM
He's been pretty bad, but he did recently have a 3 hr game...

he has talent but i haven't seen much...i'm sure DM will go for a 29 year old OF'er that can't get on base but has good defense

It's kind of like the Chiefs situation....trotting him out there can't be any worse than Mitch Maier...and he has more upside than David De Jesus, IMO.

Sure-Oz
09-09-2009, 12:02 AM
Maier is lame, i still can't believe he has 11 OF assists, that said he shouldn't be on a MLB roster

BWillie
09-09-2009, 02:09 AM
He's been pretty bad, but he did recently have a 3 hr game...

he has talent but i haven't seen much...i'm sure DM will go for a 29 year old OF'er that can't get on base but has good defense

When I look down at MLB teams that were good the last five years, it seems like whatever teams are tops in OBP are the best teams in baseball. Sooo....why don't we just go out - sign whoever gets on base the most and just fill them on our roster. Being we are a small market team, that seems like the best bang for your buck strategy anyway. I'm sick and tired of the Bentancourts and Olivos. They hack at everything in sight and miss. You can only do that if you are a great contact hitter like Callaspo. If Olivo wasn't mentally retarded, he would be one of the best hitting catchers in the MLB but for the life of him doesn't understand what a strike and a ball is.

I mean, I don't understand why people give two shits about someone's batting average. It doesn't really make any difference. OPS and OBP only thing that should matter. We are second to last in OBP, and once again, we suck ass. Bring Kila Ka'aihue. This guy is my boy. He's batting .252 you say right? Well that motherf*cker has 105 walks and an OBP of almost .400. The guy is like in the top 5-7 players in OBP in all of AAA and he has a BA of .250 - Money ball baby.

CaliforniaChief
09-09-2009, 08:43 PM
Robinson Tejeda had another very strong start tonight for the Royals, striking out 8 and walking 2 while giving up only 3 hits in 6 innings. It would be a nice September find to have Tejeda become a solid starter for the team going into 2010. BTW, he outdueled the great Justin Verlander tonight. Hopefully they can get him a win this time.

BWillie
09-09-2009, 08:49 PM
Robinson Tejeda had another very strong start tonight for the Royals, striking out 8 and walking 2 while giving up only 3 hits in 6 innings. It would be a nice September find to have Tejeda become a solid starter for the team going into 2010. BTW, he outdueled the great Justin Verlander tonight. Hopefully they can get him a win this time.

Shitty.

Reaper16
09-09-2009, 09:56 PM
Billy Butler had his 4th three-double game of the season today. You know who else has done that? Fucking nobody else since 1956-- when rotosheet has been keeping track of things.

DeezNutz
09-09-2009, 09:58 PM
Billy Butler had his 4th three-double game of the season today. You know who else has done that? ****ing nobody else since 1956-- when rotosheet has been keeping track of things.

Wow.

That's enough.

Wow.

Reaper16
09-09-2009, 10:10 PM
@mellinger (http://twitter.com/mellinger) RT @royalspostgame (http://twitter.com/royalspostgame): #Royals (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23Royals) pitcher Luke Hochevar has now been told by 6 clubs that he has been tipping off pitches.

... that would explain things.

WilliamTheIrish
09-09-2009, 10:13 PM
Good for Butler. He needs to keep working through the off season.

DeezNutz
09-09-2009, 10:13 PM
@mellinger (http://twitter.com/mellinger) RT @royalspostgame (http://twitter.com/royalspostgame): #Royals (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23Royals) pitcher Luke Hochevar has now been told by 6 clubs that he has been tipping off pitches.

... that would explain things.

That's huge. No question.

But it doesn't matter much in the long run, with his middling stuff.

I almost puked listening to Fever talk about the Tigers' success with drafting pitchers.

OnTheWarpath58
09-09-2009, 10:14 PM
@mellinger (http://twitter.com/mellinger) RT @royalspostgame (http://twitter.com/royalspostgame): #Royals (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23Royals) pitcher Luke Hochevar has now been told by 6 clubs that he has been tipping off pitches.

... that would explain things.

How fucking sad is it that he heard from other teams, and not from his own teammates?

WilliamTheIrish
09-09-2009, 10:14 PM
I almost puked listening to Fever talk about the Tigers' success with drafting pitchers.

Me too.

Reaper16
09-09-2009, 10:14 PM
That's huge. No question.

But it doesn't matter much in the long run, with his middling stuff.

I almost puked listening to Fever talk about the Tigers' success with drafting pitchers.
I think his stuff is much better than "middling," personally.

DeezNutz
09-09-2009, 10:23 PM
I think his stuff is much better than "middling," personally.

:eek:

Me no likey sinkerballers who lack an out pitch. Hated the selection at the time and continue to hate it today.

He's been better with the breaking ball this year, but it's far from being a consistent and effective part of his array, and he's past the point of talking of his development.

DeezNutz
09-09-2009, 10:26 PM
Me too.

Real kick in the crotch.

I doubt we would have had the foresight and intelligence to pull off the Miller trade (and I want no talk about not having the resources, since we all know that this complete and total bullshit--this comment not aimed at any of the regulars in this thread), but the Porcello bit really stung.

tk13
09-09-2009, 10:51 PM
I don't think Hochevar's problem is that his stuff isn't any good. His stuff is great, he has tremendous movement on his pitches. He just has never figured it out. Nobody with average stuff could strike out 12 or 13 or whatever it was earlier this year. Of course the last guy we had like that was Jorge De La Rosa, and he never did figure it out. At least until he went somewhere else.

BigRock
09-09-2009, 11:32 PM
How ****ing sad is it that he heard from other teams, and not from his own teammates?

How sad is it that he had to hear it from SIX teams? One, ok, maybe they're ****ing with you. Two? Time to be concerned. THREE? Abort mission.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-09-2009, 11:34 PM
Really glad I have Soria this week in the playoffs. 3 days, 3 saves.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-09-2009, 11:35 PM
How fucking sad is it that he heard from other teams, and not from his own teammates?

There are a shitload of incompetent teams when it comes to that. The Cardinals caught it right away with Smoltz, and the mighty Red Sox missed it for over a dozen rehab and regular season starts

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-09-2009, 11:41 PM
I don't think Hochevar's problem is that his stuff isn't any good. His stuff is great, he has tremendous movement on his pitches. He just has never figured it out. Nobody with average stuff could strike out 12 or 13 or whatever it was earlier this year. Of course the last guy we had like that was Jorge De La Rosa, and he never did figure it out. At least until he went somewhere else.

He has really good movement on his 2-seamer. He has ok movement on his breaking pitches, but they aren't plus pitches even if you excuse his lack of control. He doesn't even have a K/9 of 6 despite spending several years in the minors as an advanced arm.

He'd be a really good #3-decent #2 with a guy like Dave Duncan teaching him, but he'd never be the K machine that even De La Rosa is.

tk13
09-09-2009, 11:50 PM
I really don't think his K/9 completely reflects his stuff though. Doesn't mean he'll ever reach the level of performance he should, but it's in there somewhere. I was referring to that stretch he had earlier where he was striking people out and pitching really well... he finally showed flashes of it. His fastball and sinker have more than enough movement to eliminate hitters.

tk13
09-09-2009, 11:52 PM
The Dave Duncan thing is probably right on... maybe he wouldn't be a K machine, but he's exactly the type of guy Duncan would go for and turn into something really good.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-09-2009, 11:58 PM
I really don't think his K/9 completely reflects his stuff though. Doesn't mean he'll ever reach the level of performance he should, but it's in there somewhere. I was referring to that stretch he had earlier where he was striking people out and pitching really well... he finally showed flashes of it. His fastball and sinker have more than enough movement to eliminate hitters.

That's a fair point. Stuff is often equated with the ability to dominate and put away hitters without contact, and I was surprised to see him do that in a few starts, but I don't know relevant that is, or if it is just an aberration. His 2-seamer is definitely a very good pitch, and you can get by throwing only two seamers if you have a good defense behind you.

His best case scenario is a poor man's Brandon Webb, which is nothing to sneeze at.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-11-2009, 07:10 PM
So, I'm in my fantasy playoffs and I've got Greinke going and Soria as one of my closers.

I'd like to toss out a hearty FUCK YOU!! to Miguel Olivo for running the bases like a goddamned Mongoloid, another FUCK YOU!! to David DeJesus for playing the outfield like Jerry's kid, another FUCK YOU to every Royals hitter for having absolutely no ability to get timely hits or make productive outs, and another FUCK YOU!! to the Royals announcers for constantly bringing up how many straight scoreless he has.

Thanks guys:

http://i41.tinypic.com/2lbcbap.jpg

CaliforniaChief
09-11-2009, 07:13 PM
So, I'm in my fantasy playoffs and I've got Greinke going and Soria as one of my closers.

I'd like to toss out a hearty **** YOU!! to Miguel Olivo for running the bases like a goddamned Mongoloid, another **** YOU!! to David DeJesus for playing the outfield like Jerry's kid, another **** YOU to every Royals hitter for having absolutely no ability to get timely hits or make productive outs, and another **** YOU!! to the Royals announcers for constantly bringing up how many straight scoreless he has.

Thanks guys:

http://i41.tinypic.com/2lbcbap.jpg

So how do you really feel? http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/smilies/rofl2.gif

that meltdown probably represents most of our opinions.

DeezNutz
09-13-2009, 08:57 AM
And Rany has had enough. Officially. It's too long to post, but he lays the hammer to Dayton Moore and throws up his hands in disgust.

I don't disagree with much, if anything, in this entry. Complete joke of a front office. DM must go:

www.ranyontheroyals.com

Dartgod
09-23-2009, 09:16 PM
Heh. Anyone watching the game on TV see the chick accidentally dump her beer on the camera man? She was trying to act like she didn't do anything, but they busted her on the TV broadcast.

Funny shit...