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View Full Version : Chiefs Well it happened slowly, but we're starting to get there. Our DL.


Direckshun
05-03-2009, 11:54 PM
It's slowly coming together.

You can disagree with the picks, you can claim the players we have picked for the DL have been busts... but there is no doubt that we are building a DL with formidable talent that has incredible potential. There is no doubt we are building our DL the right way.

1st round picks:

DE/OLB Tamba Hali
DT/DE Glenn Dorsey
DE Tyson Jackson

2nd round picks:

DE Turk McBride

3rd round picks:

NT Tank Tyler
DE Alex Magee

(Free agents:)

DE Alfonso Boone
NT Ron Edwards

Direckshun
05-03-2009, 11:55 PM
Like I said, it's not there yet, but it's easy to get excited about it.

What if Jackson and Magee can develop into bookends? What if Jackson in particular lives up to expectations?

What if Dorsey can become the Dockett-like penetrator?

What if Tank can hold down the nose?

What if Turk can provide good rotational depth at DE?

What if Tamba can somehow fit into the 3-4?

This is the easiest unit on the entire team to get excited over. Bar none.

DeezNutz
05-03-2009, 11:57 PM
What if we can record more than 10 sacks?

What if we don't give up back-to-back 300 yard rushing games?

What if I JIMP?

SBK
05-03-2009, 11:59 PM
Like I said, it's not there yet, but it's easy to get excited about it.

What if Jackson and Magee can develop into bookends? What if Jackson in particular lives up to expectations?

What if Dorsey can become the Dockett-like penetrator?

What if Tank can hold down the nose?

What if Turk can provide good rotational depth at DE?

What if Tamba can somehow fit into the 3-4?

This is the easiest unit on the entire team to get excited over. Bar none.

I agree.

beach tribe
05-04-2009, 12:01 AM
I see some people with real optimism showing up in this thread soon to tell us we're idiots, but I do agree with you completely.

Direckshun
05-04-2009, 12:03 AM
What if we can record more than 10 sacks?

What if we don't give up back-to-back 300 yard rushing games?

What if I JIMP?

You know, it sucks that our DL hasn't produced more given the high picks we've invested in it, and I suppose that process may be elongated now that we've switched schemes.

But there is NO doubt that this is how you build a defense, and a team. You draft DL first. And we've stocked that position -- I can only hope we continue to do so.

Good lord, this is a position that takes a year or three to learn. What if we have a couple guys starting to get it this year? Tank learns to anchor. McBride learns to penetrate. Hali learns to turn the corner.

Bang. Everybody feeds off that and this DL can become a feeding frenzy.

Smed1065
05-04-2009, 12:04 AM
It may not happen but I agree. Seems familiar with success in the NFL before us.

There are a lot of if's but seems like a good start for a rebuild. IMO.

DeezNutz
05-04-2009, 12:05 AM
I'll say one thing, if we can't start to get results with all of this day-one talent, it will be hugely disappointing.

Not sure about all the optimism about players on the roster, though, and here's why:

This defense was historically bad. This is a fact, not opinion. Though the LBers were putrid, the DL wasn't good either. And we kept the DL coach. The implication is that coaching wasn't the problem; the problem was lack of talent.

Smed1065
05-04-2009, 12:07 AM
I'll say one thing, if we can't start to get results with all of this day-one talent, it will be hugely disappointing.

Not sure about all the optimism about players on the roster, though, and here's why:

This defense was historically bad. This is a fact, not opinion. Though the LBers were putrid, the DL wasn't good either. And we kept the DL coach. The implication is that coaching wasn't the problem; the problem was lack of talent.

That defensive line coach is my biggest concern, I mean that was the biggest WTF this off season as far as I am concerned.

DeezNutz
05-04-2009, 12:07 AM
McBride learns to penetrate. Hali learns to turn the corner.

Bang. Everybody feeds off that and this DL can become a feeding frenzy.

You can't "learn" things if you don't have the God-given skill set. Hali will never "learn" to turn the corner, for example.

I agree that any successful team needs to be stout in the trenches, but FFS, it doesn't have to be comprised of all first-round picks.

We've had this same argument numerous times about the offensive side of the ball.

Direckshun
05-04-2009, 12:07 AM
I'll say one thing, if we can't start to get results with all of this day-one talent, it will be hugely disappointing.

Not sure about all the optimism about players on the roster, though, and here's why:

This defense was historically bad. This is a fact, not opinion. Though the LBers were putrid, the DL wasn't good either. And we kept the DL coach. The implication is that coaching wasn't the problem; the problem was lack of talent.

You know what happens if we can't get results with all these high picks invested in DL?

You invest more high picks in the DL. You keep feeding this monster. We need to anyway, we're still lacking a true NT and one, probably two OLBs.

You CANNOT WIN in the NFL without a DL. We cannot abandon this approach hoping for some alternate route.

DeezNutz
05-04-2009, 12:09 AM
You know what happens if we can't get results with all these high picks invested in DL?

You invest more high picks in the DL. You keep feeding this monster. We need to anyway, we're still lacking a true NT and one, probably two OLBs.

You CANNOT WIN in the NFL without a DL. We cannot abandon this approach hoping for some alternate route.

How about we just find, you know, players who can actually play? Doesn't have to be a high pick, necessarily.

Just like you don't need 5 first-round picks across the offensive line.

Direckshun
05-04-2009, 12:18 AM
How about we just find, you know, players who can actually play? Doesn't have to be a high pick, necessarily.

Just like you don't need 5 first-round picks across the offensive line.

Because the degree of difficulty for the DL is much, much higher than the OL.

You don't NEED to throw high picks at it, but your chances of landing able bodies to apply pressure are much higher. I'm confused that I'd even have to explain that.

beach tribe
05-04-2009, 12:19 AM
I will NEVER understand Krumrie being employed by the Chiefs.

DeezNutz
05-04-2009, 12:23 AM
Because the degree of difficulty for the DL is much, much higher than the OL.

You don't NEED to throw high picks at it, but your chances of landing able bodies to apply pressure are much higher. I'm confused that I'd even have to explain that.

If we go 3-4, we're going to need a DT, and this might necessitate a very high pick. Or we might be fortunate enough to get a guy who falls to us in the 2nd-3rd. A Brace, for example.

Your second paragraph is true of all positions on the field, so quit trying to hyperfocus on the DL. For once, I'd like to see us build a...get ready, cause I'm going off the fucking charts here...balanced football team.

Next year's draft is "stalked" (a CP fav) full of defensive talent, so I'm sure we'll get our wish. But a Mays or a Berry would do very, very nicely.

Direckshun
05-04-2009, 12:31 AM
I think we're talking past each other.

J Diddy
05-04-2009, 12:37 AM
I will NEVER understand Krumrie being employed by the Chiefs.


he did the slap test on clark

Direckshun
05-04-2009, 12:42 AM
he did the slap test on clark

ROFL

DaneMcCloud
05-04-2009, 01:55 AM
It's slowly coming together.

You can disagree with the picks, you can claim the players we have picked for the DL have been busts... but there is no doubt that we are building a DL with formidable talent that has incredible potential. There is no doubt we are building our DL the right way.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Fruit Ninja
05-04-2009, 02:03 AM
Yeah, i hope it was all Herm's fucked up scheme. I hate the Tampa 2. People have adjusted to that shit. There was no element of suprise from our defense. We didnt keep anyone guessing. It was just pick apart the defense.

I dont know why people get pissed off, its been 40 years and we got a new guy coming in. Give him a year or 2 to see whats he's doing. I cant be mad at someone that hasnt even had a chance to build something the way he wants without the team playing a game yet. I am no Pioli pole smoker as a fuck of these fucks on the board like to say. He does deserve a chance to see what he can do.

I just cant judge anyone when the team hasnt played a game yet under the new regime.

htismaqe
05-04-2009, 09:02 AM
We may already have our NT on the roster. We need to start putting our 1st-round draft picks elsewhere...

dtrain
05-04-2009, 09:34 AM
I will NEVER understand Krumrie being employed by the Chiefs.

He has done nothing with the DL since he has been here. I would venture a guess that the powers that be felt he was the best of what was out there and if the line doesn't improve this year he is gone.

L.A. Chieffan
05-04-2009, 09:50 AM
i think dl would be good to draft every year....that way if even if they bust the potential will always be there to give me that warm and fuzzy feeling

Chiefnj2
05-04-2009, 09:56 AM
Positional coaches have good years and bad years. Guinta was horrible in KC, but did well in NY and has a ring to show for it. Maybe with a new GM, HC and DC Krumrie will do okay in KC. Pioli knows the importance of a DL from his time in New England, and the early draft picks had Pioli written all over them.

htismaqe
05-04-2009, 10:03 AM
Positional coaches have good years and bad years. Guinta was horrible in KC, but did well in NY and has a ring to show for it. Maybe with a new GM, HC and DC Krumrie will do okay in KC. Pioli knows the importance of a DL from his time in New England, and the early draft picks had Pioli written all over them.

This.

Micjones
05-04-2009, 11:36 AM
Build it from the lines out.
I don't mind them going back to the well one bit.
This is a new regime. Failures of the past still sting us, but we have to create a real foundation for this team going forward.

I really wish they had done the same with the Offensive Line, but perhaps that will come later.

Mr. Krab
05-04-2009, 01:25 PM
I've seen nothing to indicate that our DL is "coming together". We all hope it will but it's nothing but hope and dreams thus far.

Frosty
05-04-2009, 01:44 PM
Maybe Krumrie was held back by Gunther?

~grasping at any straws possible for any glimmer of hope

Fish
05-04-2009, 01:53 PM
I'm waiting to see this line in action together before passing any judgment whatsover...

This offseason's moves have confused the hell out of me, and caused me to challenge what I thought I knew about the overall talent on the DLine. From the retention of Captain Slap Fight, to personnel choices made or neglected, I don't have a clue at this time.....

RustShack
05-04-2009, 02:18 PM
I think the Bills has a pretty damn good Dline when Krumrie was there...

RustShack
05-04-2009, 02:19 PM
Pioli knows Dline, maybe Krumire just didn't know Tampa Two... or the defense just overall sucked and would make anyone look bad.

warrior
05-04-2009, 03:06 PM
Too early to tell

SenselessChiefsFan
05-04-2009, 03:16 PM
That defensive line coach is my biggest concern, I mean that was the biggest WTF this off season as far as I am concerned.

While I understand the point, don't forget that Jared Allen became a star under this guy.

Not saying I am his biggest fan, but I like Pioli and Haley and I don't think Krumrie would stay on the staff 'just cuz'... you know?

SenselessChiefsFan
05-04-2009, 03:20 PM
He has done nothing with the DL since he has been here. I would venture a guess that the powers that be felt he was the best of what was out there and if the line doesn't improve this year he is gone.

I think he was just short on overall talent. He got great play out of Allen and Boone when they were side by side. He even got Reed to be effective.

Krumrie developed Allen. So, that is 'something'.

milkman
05-04-2009, 03:24 PM
I think the Bills has a pretty damn good Dline when Krumrie was there...

No they didn't.

milkman
05-04-2009, 03:26 PM
I think he was just short on overall talent. He got great play out of Allen and Boone when they were side by side. He even got Reed to be effective.

Krumrie developed Allen. So, that is 'something'.

No, Krumrie didn't develop Allen.

Allen developed in the years leadig up to Krumrie's hire, and Krumrie was just the beneficiary of those years of development paying off in his first year as D-Line coach in KC.

kcchiefsus
05-04-2009, 03:36 PM
I'll say one thing, if we can't start to get results with all of this day-one talent, it will be hugely disappointing.

Not sure about all the optimism about players on the roster, though, and here's why:

This defense was historically bad. This is a fact, not opinion. Though the LBers were putrid, the DL wasn't good either. And we kept the DL coach. The implication is that coaching wasn't the problem; the problem was lack of talent.

Or perhaps like already mentioned, DL is a position where it takes several years to develop. That does not mean lack of talent, it means lack of experience.

kcchiefsus
05-04-2009, 03:40 PM
I've seen nothing to indicate that our DL is "coming together". We all hope it will but it's nothing but hope and dreams thus far.

Well no shit Sherlock. As a fan your obviously not going to see it until gameday. The fact is, young players do happen to struggle early on and then all of a sudden start to "get it" at some point. With so many young players on the defensive line it would not be out of the ordinary for some of these guys to start to improve.

Fish
05-04-2009, 03:47 PM
While I understand the point, don't forget that Jared Allen became a star under this guy.

Not saying I am his biggest fan, but I like Pioli and Haley and I don't think Krumrie would stay on the staff 'just cuz'... you know?

I don't know how accurate that would be. Nobody really recognized the talent Jared Allen had. I think Jared Allen excelled because of Jared Allen. He simply needed a coach to give him a chance on the field. The coaches refined his technique a little, especially against the run. But I see his "development" as very self-driven. Which is why he was also his own worst enemy through his "party stage".

If Krumrie was a superb coach, he would have found a way to end last season with anything but the worst sack record of all times. Regardless of who was on the line. The fact that he didn't get better production from the rest of the guys who's talent was obvious makes a stronger point than Allen's production. A guy who can't coach up several reasonably talented first rounders, but gets a much different level of success out of a 4th rounder isn't a very clear indicator of coaching brilliance....