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View Full Version : Chiefs What are the Chiefs planning for LJ?


Frankie
05-05-2009, 12:08 PM
I expect LJ to be THE featured back this year and the Chiefs will do everything to make him shine*. The idea is not to keep him but to trade him before the 2010 draft. If this scenario plays out watch for some of the current LJ bashers to fall in love with him all over again totally forgetting that he won't have much juice left and cursing the FO for trading away a "great' player.

Disclaimer:
This is just my hunch and despite popular report my friend's cousin twice removed whose boyfriend works as a janitor at Arrowhead did not provide me with this info.

* You would think the Chiefs would go heavy on the OL in the draft and FA signings to do this and to protect our new QB. I admit I'm a bit confused here but I still say that's the plan.

Thoughts?

the Talking Can
05-05-2009, 12:11 PM
plausible

but they won't play him unless he is really effective, no matter how much they want a pick for him...

wild1
05-05-2009, 12:11 PM
lol @ trade him before the 2010 draft.

i bet we'll really get a haul for a 30+ running back who hasn't been productive in years, has attitude and legal problems, and who nobody likes in the locker room

he will be released before this season starts. hopefully

bdeg
05-05-2009, 12:13 PM
Hold him until his value is highest. Probably until a team sees the playoffs within their grasp but is desperate for a RB, possibly due to injuries. You could get a good deal in that scenario.

the Talking Can
05-05-2009, 12:13 PM
lol @ trade him before the 2010 draft.

i bet we'll really get a haul for a 30+ running back who hasn't been productive in years, has attitude and legal problems, and who nobody likes in the locker room

he will be released before this season starts. hopefully

who cares....a 5th would be something...

Demonpenz
05-05-2009, 12:17 PM
dress him up like Guy Fieri

beach tribe
05-05-2009, 12:24 PM
LJ is about to get played off by Keyboard Cat.

suds79
05-05-2009, 12:27 PM
who cares....a 5th would be something...

Simple test. Just reverse it. Would you want your team to give a 5th for Larry? Neither would I.

His best years are historically behind him and RB has got to be the easiest position to pick up in the NFL which is why quality RBs can be found in the mid to late rounds all the time.

Pass blocking is usually a rookies biggest learning curve and LJ sucks at that anyways.

bdeg
05-05-2009, 12:31 PM
Simple test. Just reverse it. Would you want your team to give a 5th for Larry? Neither would I.

His best years are historically behind him and RB has got to be the easiest position to pick up in the NFL which is why quality RBs can be found in the mid to late rounds all the time.

Pass blocking is usually a rookies biggest learning curve and LJ sucks at that anyways.
not every team is rebuilding. lj would help most teams next year more than 99.9% of 5th rounders. To the right team at the right time I think he could be worth a third. A fourth is probably reasonable.

talastan
05-05-2009, 12:46 PM
I'd be giving total praise to the FO if they can trade LJ "diaper"pants for even a 5th.

Gdaddy
05-05-2009, 01:00 PM
he has zero trade value, and hes in his 30's....
They keep him till after June Cuts to see if they can pick someone else up.
He does have some value to the Chiefs, he can still run the ball.
I say keep him and give him the ball. Cassel needs help and LJ can take some pressure off of him. He will never be a team player, he is only happy when he has wide open holes to run through. I still like him as a football player, despise him as a person. He, nor the chiefs care what I think. Based on our current HB situation we need him. Charles and Smith cant be featured backs...LJ still can.

Chiefnj2
05-05-2009, 01:05 PM
I think he'll be the #1 back and they will run him as much as possible. LJ knows that his value is at an all time low. All he can do is keep quiet and run the ball to improve his future value.

SenselessChiefsFan
05-05-2009, 01:05 PM
I expect LJ to be THE featured back this year and the Chiefs will do everything to make him shine*. The idea is not to keep him but to trade him before the 2010 draft. If this scenario plays out watch for some of the current LJ bashers to fall in love with him all over again totally forgetting that he won't have much juice left and cursing the FO for trading away a "great' player.

Disclaimer:
This is just my hunch and despite popular report my friend's cousin twice removed whose boyfriend works as a janitor at Arrowhead did not provide me with this info.

* You would think the Chiefs would go heavy on the OL in the draft and FA signings to do this and to protect our new QB. I admit I'm a bit confused here but I still say that's the plan.

Thoughts?

#1) To trade someone, there has to be a trade partner. Running backs are a dime a dozen right now. No one is going to trade for LJ, especially given his contract.

#2) IF LJ gets his head straight and puts up monster numbers, then I think the Chiefs will just keep him and use him up until there is nothing left.

I do think that LJ will have a good year. I think that the Chiefs will be stuck with him though, because they won't get any good offers for him.

Heck, they wanted to trade him a couple years ago when he was holding out for a new contract, coming off a great season, and they didn't get any good offers. The only offer reported was by Green Bay and it turned out to be bogus.

Hey, I hope he puts up 3000 yards and we get two firsts for him. I just don't think it will happen.

I won't be surprised if he rushes for 1500 yards this year OR if he gets cut in training camp. It will all depend on where his head is at.

htismaqe
05-05-2009, 01:06 PM
I expect LJ to be THE featured back this year and the Chiefs will do everything to make him shine*. The idea is not to keep him but to trade him before the 2010 draft. If this scenario plays out watch for some of the current LJ bashers to fall in love with him all over again totally forgetting that he won't have much juice left and cursing the FO for trading away a "great' player.

Disclaimer:
This is just my hunch and despite popular report my friend's cousin twice removed whose boyfriend works as a janitor at Arrowhead did not provide me with this info.

* You would think the Chiefs would go heavy on the OL in the draft and FA signings to do this and to protect our new QB. I admit I'm a bit confused here but I still say that's the plan.

Thoughts?

So the fact the Chiefs didn't draft 7 offensive linemen means they don't want to protect the QB?

wild1
05-05-2009, 01:24 PM
Hold him until his value is highest.

I agree we should hold onto him until 2006. ;)

Frankie
05-05-2009, 01:29 PM
I think he'll be the #1 back and they will run him as much as possible. LJ knows that his value is at an all time low. All he can do is keep quiet and run the ball to improve his future value.

Exactly.

However, as I pointed out in the topic, I cannot understand the lack of emphasis on the OL by this FO.

Chiefnj2
05-05-2009, 01:32 PM
Exactly.

However, as I pointed out in the topic, I cannot understand the lack of emphasis on the OL by this FO.

They signed Goff for RG and signed the inverse human pancake machine (name given by Bengal fans) for C. Perhaps they watched tape of McIntosh and think he improved later in the year or one of the other backups will suffice at OL. That's the best I can do. I'm surprised they didn't focus on the OL in the draft.

Deberg_1990
05-05-2009, 01:32 PM
plausible

but they won't play him unless he is really effective, no matter how much they want a pick for him...

He was still effective at times last year. Especially after he came back.

If hes motivated, he can still be good.

J Diddy
05-05-2009, 01:36 PM
he has zero trade value, and hes in his 30's....
They keep him till after June Cuts to see if they can pick someone else up.
He does have some value to the Chiefs, he can still run the ball.
I say keep him and give him the ball. Cassel needs help and LJ can take some pressure off of him. He will never be a team player, he is only happy when he has wide open holes to run through. I still like him as a football player, despise him as a person. He, nor the chiefs care what I think. Based on our current HB situation we need him. Charles and Smith cant be featured backs...LJ still can.
June cuts mean nothing anymore.

Frankie
05-05-2009, 01:37 PM
IF LJ gets his head straight and puts up monster numbers, then I think the Chiefs will just keep him and use him up until there is nothing left.
I disagree. I think he has probably been told that if he gets good numbers he will get his wish. That's why he is ACTING like a team player now.


Heck, they wanted to trade him a couple years ago when he was holding out for a new contract, coming off a great season, and they didn't get any good offers. The only offer reported was by Green Bay and it turned out to be bogus.
How do you know with any certainty that it was bogus? That claim holds just as much water as the strong rumors that Dallas and GB wanted him. Maybe even less. I tend to lean towards the possibility that CP, in his infinite ego, set an impossible asking price because he wanted to KEEP the player he personally drafted despite his coach's objections. Both Dallas and GB backed off and all parties denied the rumors to save face.

Pioli Zombie
05-05-2009, 01:37 PM
Crucify him!!!!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

Cormac
05-05-2009, 01:40 PM
I think he'll be the #1 back and they will run him as much as possible. LJ knows that his value is at an all time low. All he can do is keep quiet and run the ball to improve his future value.

I agree. It would be fatally hypocritical of the FO to play LJ if he's not committed to the team. If LJ can find some desire, then he has plenty of gas in the tank. He has low mileage for his age. Two tough seasons and those were 3 and 4 seasons ago now. I'm comfortable that if he is played this year by the new FO/coaching staff, that means he's ready to play and to give his all. If so, I'm happy enough with using him. He could make all the difference.

Of course, it wouldn't surprise me if the FO has already decided they are getting rid of him and are waiting for the right time/trade to arrive.

wild1
05-05-2009, 02:14 PM
He was still effective at times last year. Especially after he came back.

If hes motivated, he can still be good.

i only remember him being effective in one game.

htismaqe
05-05-2009, 02:19 PM
Exactly.

However, as I pointed out in the topic, I cannot understand the lack of emphasis on the OL by this FO.

Because they feel like they have what they want on the OL? Because they didn't feel the options presented in the draft were to their liking? Because they don't consult with the fans before they make roster moves?

Jilly
05-05-2009, 02:21 PM
We need to get rid of him...he's not a featured back anymore and we have no obligation to keep him, contract wise, right?

htismaqe
05-05-2009, 02:26 PM
Repeat after me:

Larry Johnson has NO trade value.
Larry Johnson has NO trade value.
Larry Johnson has NO trade value.

MoreLemonPledge
05-05-2009, 02:50 PM
We need to get rid of him...he's not a featured back anymore and we have no obligation to keep him, contract wise, right?

I'm surprised it took somebody this long to mention it.

The Chiefs aren't on the hook for his guarantees. He can be cut and they wouldn't have to pay his massive contract. It's a pretty big deal.

Would we get the same exact production out of the backs we have now? Maybe not. But from a value standpoint, is it really worth it to keep him on for as much money as he's going to make? Probably not.

No one will trade for him. I fully expect him to either restructure his contract or be cut.

SenselessChiefsFan
05-05-2009, 03:03 PM
I disagree. I think he has probably been told that if he gets good numbers he will get his wish. That's why he is ACTING like a team player now.


How do you know with any certainty that it was bogus? That claim holds just as much water as the strong rumors that Dallas and GB wanted him. Maybe even less. I tend to lean towards the possibility that CP, in his infinite ego, set an impossible asking price because he wanted to KEEP the player he personally drafted despite his coach's objections. Both Dallas and GB backed off and all parties denied the rumors to save face.

#1) Wrong. LJ is scheduled to make huge money still with his current contract. Unlike before, an arbitrator has ruled that the salaries are NOT guaranteed because he was suspended by the NFL. They were originally guaranteed. IF he goes anywhere else, he will get paid the veteran minimum. So, he has millions or reasons to shape up.

#2) Also false. The ONLY place to report a trade offer was Green Bay's version of WPI. And, they, like Warpaint, are clueless. In fact, Mort, Clayton and Shefter have all shot this theory down at different times during different interviews.

Could they have traded him for a low first or second at the time? Perhaps. But, it was reported that Green Bay was willing to give up a first and fourth.... total BS.

SenselessChiefsFan
05-05-2009, 03:06 PM
I'm surprised it took somebody this long to mention it.

The Chiefs aren't on the hook for his guarantees. He can be cut and they wouldn't have to pay his massive contract. It's a pretty big deal.

Would we get the same exact production out of the backs we have now? Maybe not. But from a value standpoint, is it really worth it to keep him on for as much money as he's going to make? Probably not.

No one will trade for him. I fully expect him to either restructure his contract or be cut.

He is the best back on the roster right now. The Chiefs are fine in regards to the cap. If he buys in to the system, I expect him to be here at least another year.

The key is whether he buys in. But, as you pointed out, his deal is not guaranteed. I think he will certainly buy in.

Jilly
05-05-2009, 03:10 PM
I'm surprised it took somebody this long to mention it.

The Chiefs aren't on the hook for his guarantees. He can be cut and they wouldn't have to pay his massive contract. It's a pretty big deal.

Would we get the same exact production out of the backs we have now? Maybe not. But from a value standpoint, is it really worth it to keep him on for as much money as he's going to make? Probably not.

No one will trade for him. I fully expect him to either restructure his contract or be cut.

exactly what I was getting at

Pioli Zombie
05-05-2009, 03:12 PM
Crucify him!!!!!!!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

SDChiefs
05-05-2009, 03:32 PM
The thing is, we only have one legitimate receiving threat. You can bet, if that doesn't change, we are going to go to a run first offense again until we can get the necessary tools in the passing game. I think LJ knows this and thats why he is starting to turn around. He realizes he will get more carries. And I think the FO knows this and thats why they haven't cut him.

He proved to be effective last year at 4.5 ypc, and that is with no OLine to speak of. He just didn't get the carries. Our OLine is better now, marginally, and he should get more carries so I would expect the LJ of old. Maybe not 1700 yds but I don't see why 1400-1500 would be impossible considering he missed 4 games and still amassed nearly 900 yds on only 16 carries a game.

Frankie
05-05-2009, 03:36 PM
If LJ can find some desire, then he has plenty of gas in the tank.

But thinking that LJ will display desire AFTER next year could be a fatal mistake IMO. Right now he has the motivation to show off and improve on his trade value so he can get out of KC. It's a temporary motivation and we should not be fooled by it.

L.A. Chieffan
05-05-2009, 03:39 PM
him, charles, and smith should be excellent for 1 to 1.5 ypc a game

htismaqe
05-05-2009, 04:23 PM
But thinking that LJ will display desire AFTER next year could be a fatal mistake IMO. Right now he has the motivation to show off and improve on his trade value so he can get out of KC. It's a temporary motivation and we should not be fooled by it.

He has ZERO trade value and that won't change now that he's only getting older.

The guy was ridden hard for a couple of seasons and now, for a RB, he's old. Even HE knows he has no trade value.

Mr. Krab
05-05-2009, 04:31 PM
I doubt he gets traded. If the Chiefs like what they see from the younger RB's in camp, he will get cut. If the young'uns get hurt or suck then LJ will play another year for us. We never should of given him the big contract.

Frankie
05-05-2009, 06:56 PM
He has ZERO trade value and that won't change now that he's only getting older.

The guy was ridden hard for a couple of seasons and now, for a RB, he's old. Even HE knows he has no trade value.

Meh, I bet you if he was on another team you'd want us to trade for him.

Valiant
05-05-2009, 07:08 PM
Hopefully a rash of injuries beset a couple of teams and a bidding war starts driving of the price of obtaining him.. But that is just me hoping..

Valiant
05-05-2009, 07:09 PM
He has ZERO trade value and that won't change now that he's only getting older.

The guy was ridden hard for a couple of seasons and now, for a RB, he's old. Even HE knows he has no trade value.

Anything can happen..

Frankie
05-05-2009, 07:18 PM
Hopefully a rash of injuries beset a couple of teams and a bidding war starts driving of the price of obtaining him.. But that is just me hoping..

It would be moot if he has shown nothing by then.

wild1
05-05-2009, 07:21 PM
Meh, I bet you if he was on another team you'd want us to trade for him.

Were you born this dumb?

bevischief
05-05-2009, 07:26 PM
Antibiotics and a talk?

Frankie
05-05-2009, 07:55 PM
Were you born this dumb?

No "dumb" is actually waking up someone who is mentally a giant to your midget. So PLEASE don't continue this line of attack.

htismaqe
05-05-2009, 09:47 PM
Meh, I bet you if he was on another team you'd want us to trade for him.

Seriously, this is crazy.

You don't trade for RB's. You don't draft RB's in the top half of the first round. And you don't give RB's gigantic contracts like Carl gave LJ.

RB's, in general, have too short of a period of effectiveness and they're relatively easy to find. I wouldn't even say that they're truly a "skill" position anymore.

I'd be perfectly fine going into this season with Charles as the starter. So no, I wouldn't want to trade for LJ.

htismaqe
05-05-2009, 09:48 PM
Anything can happen..

That's whole lot of wishful thinking there, sorry.

RB's in general don't have much trade value. LJ, with all of his issues, plus his age, injury history, and record-setting workload simply has no value. Even if teams started getting desperate, they'd pick up some cast-off we've never heard of before they'd take on the LJ headache.

Pioli Zombie
05-05-2009, 09:49 PM
Crucify him!!!!!!!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

whoman69
05-05-2009, 11:16 PM
So the fact the Chiefs didn't draft 7 offensive linemen means they don't want to protect the QB?

I would expect more than a guard who was injured last year and a 5th round pick, now that you mention it.

cdcox
05-05-2009, 11:19 PM
Convert him to a guard.

Frankie
05-05-2009, 11:21 PM
Convert him to a guard.

Because of his great blocking skills, I suppose.

MoreLemonPledge
05-06-2009, 05:30 AM
Convert him to a guard.

No, TE. WE NEED A HALL OF FAME TIGHT END TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

/truefan

milkman
05-06-2009, 08:23 AM
#1) Wrong. LJ is scheduled to make huge money still with his current contract. Unlike before, an arbitrator has ruled that the salaries are NOT guaranteed because he was suspended by the NFL. They were originally guaranteed. IF he goes anywhere else, he will get paid the veteran minimum. So, he has millions or reasons to shape up.

If he's traded, the team that trades for him will be obligated to pay him what he is scheduled to earn on his contract.

He isn't gauranteed the money on his contract if he's cut.

beach tribe
05-06-2009, 08:28 AM
I expect him to put his right foot, in front of his left foot, and vise versa until he gets close enough to the QB, AND THEN the QB will give him an oblong ball with which he will try to move forward gaining ground, while another team of large men try to stop him from doing so.

Your welcome, no problem. If you need to know anything else just ask.

Reerun_KC
05-06-2009, 08:33 AM
I expect him to put his right foot, in front of his left foot, and vise versa until he gets close enough to the QB, AND THEN the QB will give him an oblong ball with which he will try to move forward gaining ground, while another team of large men try to stop him from doing so.

Your welcome, no problem. If you need to know anything else just ask.

Can he pass block?

JuicesFlowing
05-06-2009, 08:42 AM
If LJ's new "team attitude" is only a ploy to keep him employed for another year, and to "drive up his trade value" then that's a good thing, if LJ performs. Pioli always seemed to make this work for the Patriots. Find the piece that fits now. If we get one good year out of LJ, use him then move on.

Consistent1
05-06-2009, 08:42 AM
If he's traded, the team that trades for him will be obligated to pay him what he is scheduled to earn on his contract.

He isn't gauranteed the money on his contract if he's cut.

Which would seem to make it a problem to cut him now. Hold on to him for awhile, and cut his ass later. Then he can't go through another teams whole program and make an impact on some contender for less money. If he gets cut, several teams will take him without the big paydays he will be due for with KC.

Frankie
05-06-2009, 08:43 AM
Can he pass block?

Can he pass jail?

SenselessChiefsFan
05-06-2009, 08:52 AM
If he's traded, the team that trades for him will be obligated to pay him what he is scheduled to earn on his contract.

He isn't gauranteed the money on his contract if he's cut.

Actually, if he is cut before the first game of the season, by ANY team, he would not be guaranteed anything.

If he is cut after the first game of the season, he would be guaranteed this year's salary only. The point is that he is on his best behavior in 'hopes' of keeping his current contract.

I would love the Chiefs to trade him, but it isn't going to happen.

beach tribe
05-06-2009, 08:54 AM
Can he pass block?

Have you ever seen him pass block?

Consistent1
05-06-2009, 08:57 AM
Actually, if he is cut before the first game of the season, by ANY team, he would not be guaranteed anything.

If he is cut after the first game of the season, he would be guaranteed this year's salary only. The point is that he is on his best behavior in 'hopes' of keeping his current contract.

I would love the Chiefs to trade him, but it isn't going to happen.

Pretty much, and the KC payroll isn't high anyway. They can even afford to just eat the salary for a year, or wait until the very last day to cut him.

milkman
05-06-2009, 09:19 AM
Actually, if he is cut before the first game of the season, by ANY team, he would not be guaranteed anything.

If he is cut after the first game of the season, he would be guaranteed this year's salary only. The point is that he is on his best behavior in 'hopes' of keeping his current contract.

I would love the Chiefs to trade him, but it isn't going to happen.

My post assumes that the team that trades for him won't be cutting him.

SenselessChiefsFan
05-06-2009, 09:32 AM
My post assumes that the team that trades for him won't be cutting him.

The point is that his salary is no longer guaranteed... PERIOD. He had guaranteed money up until the arbitrator ruled otherwise. Which is WHY he has changed his tune since the ruling. The timing is not merely coincidence.

The reality is that his 'team first' attitude has nothing to do with his desire to be traded. It has everything to do with keeping as much of the money on his contract as possible.

Additionally, IF he were merely trying to leave, he would not have changed his tune and he would be gone.

I understand your assumption, but the point is that at no point is this money guaranteed until the first game of the season and then it is only ONE year.

I also wouldn't assume that he wouldn't be cut. Guys get traded for late round picks and then get cut. It happens. Not often, but it happens. And, I don't think anyone is giving up anything of real value for him.

milkman
05-06-2009, 09:36 AM
The point is that his salary is no longer guaranteed... PERIOD. He had guaranteed money up until the arbitrator ruled otherwise. Which is WHY he has changed his tune since the ruling. The timing is not merely coincidence.

The reality is that his 'team first' attitude has nothing to do with his desire to be traded. It has everything to do with keeping as much of the money on his contract as possible.

Additionally, IF he were merely trying to leave, he would not have changed his tune and he would be gone.

I understand your assumption, but the point is that at no point is this money guaranteed until the first game of the season and then it is only ONE year.

I also wouldn't assume that he wouldn't be cut. Guys get traded for late round picks and then get cut. It happens. Not often, but it happens. And, I don't think anyone is giving up anything of real value for him.

So your whole point is to tell us something that most of us already know?

Thank you Private Obvious.

SenselessChiefsFan
05-06-2009, 09:54 AM
So your whole point is to tell us something that most of us already know?

Thank you Private Obvious.

Frankie said that LJ was on his best behavior in order to get the Chiefs to trade him. I was merely pointing out that LJ is on his best behavior in order to try to keep his current contract.

Then you said that his salary would be guaranteed if the Chiefs traded him. Which is not true.

So, I was merely trying to clarify.

I assume a lot of fans know a lot of things. I consider many things to be common knowlege. Then, I come on here, and I see that what I consider common knowlege, clearly isn't.

htismaqe
05-06-2009, 09:58 AM
I would expect more than a guard who was injured last year and a 5th round pick, now that you mention it.

Todd Haley and Scott Pioli have been to as many Super Bowls in the last 2 years as the Chiefs franchise has been to since the inception of the game itself.

I would expect they know what they're doing.

Said guard doesn't have a history of injuries, so there's no reason to believe there will be carry over.

Raised On Riots
05-06-2009, 11:45 AM
I expect him to put his right foot, in front of his left foot, and vise versa until he gets close enough to the QB, AND THEN the QB will give him an oblong ball with which he will try to move forward gaining ground, while another team of large men try to stop him from doing so.

Your welcome, no problem. If you need to know anything else just ask.

LMAO

Oh, and "Crucify PZ"!!!!

Mr. Krab
05-06-2009, 12:53 PM
LJ would have to agreed to a lesser contract before any team trades for him.

buddha
05-06-2009, 01:03 PM
I agree with those who have said, LJ has little to no trade value right now. So, you might as well take some more tread off those tires...you're paying him anyway (I believe he has guaranteed money in his most recent contract...thanks Carl). I don't know what the other options are? Yes, we could wave him, but we're still paying him. Who are we going to pick up right now who is better?

htismaqe
05-06-2009, 01:06 PM
LJ would have to agreed to a lesser contract before any team trades for him.

That is somewhat true. He's essentially employed "at will" right now because his money isn't guaranteed. However, any team that traded for him and actually kept him on the roster would have to pay him whatever his base salary is. Of course, they could just cut him and not have to pay him anything.

htismaqe
05-06-2009, 01:06 PM
I agree with those who have said, LJ has little to no trade value right now. So, you might as well take some more tread off those tires...you're paying him anyway (I believe he has guaranteed money in his most recent contract...thanks Carl). I don't know what the other options are? Yes, we could wave him, but we're still paying him. Who are we going to pick up right now who is better?

No, the guaranteed money in his contract was nullified. If we waive him, we're essentially out nothing.

Mr. Krab
05-06-2009, 01:09 PM
That is somewhat true. He's essentially employed "at will" right now because his money isn't guaranteed. However, any team that traded for him and actually kept him on the roster would have to pay him whatever his base salary is. Of course, they could just cut him and not have to pay him anything.Any team that trades for him won't want to pay him the salary he is getting now. If LJ pulls a Shaun Alexander, and refuses to play for less than superstar money, he will be out of the league quick.

Mr. Krab
05-06-2009, 01:10 PM
No, the guaranteed money in his contract was nullified. If we waive him, we're essentially out nothing.Don't we still take a cap hit because of signing bonus already paid?

htismaqe
05-06-2009, 01:22 PM
Don't we still take a cap hit because of signing bonus already paid?

If it has already been pro-rated out, yeah. You're probably right.

htismaqe
05-06-2009, 01:23 PM
Any team that trades for him won't want to pay him the salary he is getting now. If LJ pulls a Shaun Alexander, and refuses to play for less than superstar money, he will be out of the league quick.

Oh believe me, I agree.

I'm just saying that TECHNICALLY, they don't have to give him a new contract. They could just cut him. But I wouldn't say it's very probable they'd trade a pick for him and then cut him without exploring a new salary first.

whoman69
05-06-2009, 10:08 PM
Todd Haley and Scott Pioli have been to as many Super Bowls in the last 2 years as the Chiefs franchise has been to since the inception of the game itself.

I would expect they know what they're doing.

Said guard doesn't have a history of injuries, so there's no reason to believe there will be carry over.


I think that has been too easy and answer to give. I don't doubt they know what they are doing, that doesn't mean the team has the tools right now to get the job done. This cupboard was left bare. Free agents are scared away by the possibility this team has become one of the bottom feeders of the league. The owner hasn't really shown that he is willing to spend the money to get this team to elite status, though with the talent we have right now that may be premature. Talent was at a low level despite what Herm said about it. Our ability to move down in the draft was limited by our position in round one and our loss of a second round pick combined with the fact we couldn't afford to miss out on a player we needed unlike the Pats who could wait for the person that fit an opening.

The fact is the task of getting this franchise where it needs to go is pretty daunting, and right now the tools may not be there.

StcChief
05-06-2009, 10:12 PM
we run the tires off.... nobody seems interested hoping we "cut" him.

htismaqe
05-07-2009, 07:45 AM
I think that has been too easy and answer to give. I don't doubt they know what they are doing, that doesn't mean the team has the tools right now to get the job done. This cupboard was left bare. Free agents are scared away by the possibility this team has become one of the bottom feeders of the league. The owner hasn't really shown that he is willing to spend the money to get this team to elite status, though with the talent we have right now that may be premature. Talent was at a low level despite what Herm said about it. Our ability to move down in the draft was limited by our position in round one and our loss of a second round pick combined with the fact we couldn't afford to miss out on a player we needed unlike the Pats who could wait for the person that fit an opening.

The fact is the task of getting this franchise where it needs to go is pretty daunting, and right now the tools may not be there.

They may not be there.

And they MAY.

Pioli spent a shitload of time personally evaluating the line, pen and paper in hand.

And then they didn't draft any offensive linemen. Seems to me the answer is obvious.

Raised On Riots
05-07-2009, 10:15 AM
They may not be there.

And they MAY.

Pioli spent a shitload of time personally evaluating the line, pen and paper in hand.

And then they didn't draft any offensive linemen. Seems to me the answer is obvious.

Ah-aah, the defense was both shit and making a change to a new scheme that required at least two guys up front that could work in it. Bad year to have to pick in that particular realm, but whaddaya' gonna' do?

I'm not all that worried about the O-line as much as I am giving Cassel targets to throw to. Perhaps Cassel will break the Chiefs QB trend of holding on to the ball in the backfield as if Da Vinci were painting his likeness?
Now, back to those targets; where's the my elite receiver, Jesus GM?

Chop-Chop!!!

Bwana
05-07-2009, 10:24 AM
My hope was, there would be a team out there that would give us decent trade value for thug boy. I don't see that happening, so I would run his azz into the ground, providing "lay down Larry" will run. I think our only hope is that someones key RB goes down for the year in pre-season.

htismaqe
05-07-2009, 10:42 AM
Ah-aah, the defense was both shit and making a change to a new scheme that required at least two guys up front that could work in it. Bad year to have to pick in that particular realm, but whaddaya' gonna' do?

I'm not all that worried about the O-line as much as I am giving Cassel targets to throw to. Perhaps Cassel will break the Chiefs QB trend of holding on to the ball in the backfield as if Da Vinci were painting his likeness?
Now, back to those targets; where's the my elite receiver, Jesus GM?

Chop-Chop!!!

Yep. We need guards and a right tackle. Guys like that are available EVERY year in the later rounds.

I'm more concerned about the WR position than anything else.

Raised On Riots
05-07-2009, 10:54 AM
Yep. We need guards and a right tackle. Guys like that are available EVERY year in the later rounds.

I'm more concerned about the WR position than anything else.

There were good picks to be had in the late-late rounds even for O-Line this year, so I was more than a little surprised to see them go for a Corner and an RB.

htismaqe
05-07-2009, 11:03 AM
There were good picks to be had in the late-late rounds even for O-Line this year, so I was more than a little surprised to see them go for a Corner and an RB.

Because they evidently didn't see the need to take them. How many late round guys step in and start right away? It's possible that they didn't see any of them as Day 1 fixes enough that they could pass up potential long-term contributors at other positions. Or maybe they just don't think we need offensive linemen as bad as we do.

Raised On Riots
05-07-2009, 11:06 AM
Because they evidently didn't see the need to take them. How many late round guys step in and start right away? It's possible that they didn't see any of them as Day 1 fixes enough that they could pass up potential long-term contributors at other positions. Or maybe they just don't think we need offensive linemen as bad as we do.

According to the Pioli draft philosophy, you'll take ten linemen in the draft if they're the BPA in each round.

His take, not mine.

htismaqe
05-07-2009, 11:16 AM
According to the Pioli draft philosophy, you'll take ten linemen in the draft if they're the BPA in each round.

His take, not mine.

If you take a look at the complete list of linemen drafted by the Patriots during their run, it actually isn't that stellar.

milkman
05-07-2009, 06:03 PM
Yep. We need guards and a right tackle. Guys like that are available EVERY year in the later rounds.

I'm more concerned about the WR position than anything else.

Why?

We, as Chiefs fans, have seen that you can put up stellar numbers with marginal WRs if you have an O-Line that can give the QB time to find receivers.

JASONSAUTO
05-07-2009, 06:49 PM
bullshit asshole you are a scared pussy

milkman
05-07-2009, 06:50 PM
Mods.

We need a cleanup on aisle 3.

JASONSAUTO
05-07-2009, 06:51 PM
Mods.

We need a cleanup on aisle 3.

i have reported EVERY post he has made. and who keeps pos. reppin him? they should be banned too

milkman
05-07-2009, 06:53 PM
i have reported EVERY post he has made. and who keeps pos. reppin him? they should be banned too

I almost wish he'd do what he says he'd do.

I'd love to see LJ kick his racist ass.

JASONSAUTO
05-07-2009, 06:53 PM
I almost wish he'd do what he says he'd do.

I'd love to see LJ kick his racist ass.

ROFL he WONT though most racists are scared little pussies

htismaqe
05-07-2009, 07:36 PM
Why?

We, as Chiefs fans, have seen that you can put up stellar numbers with marginal WRs if you have an O-Line that can give the QB time to find receivers.

Because that blueprint didn't win us any championships.

Look at the Steelers, the line is good but nowhere near what we had. Same with the Pats, or Cardinals, the Giants, or even to a lesser extent the Colts. But they ALL had at least one gamebreaking WR or even 2.

MoreLemonPledge
05-07-2009, 07:42 PM
Because that blueprint didn't win us any championships.

Look at the Steelers, the line is good but nowhere near what we had. Same with the Pats, or Cardinals, the Giants, or even to a lesser extent the Colts. But they ALL had at least one gamebreaking WR or even 2.

And really good defenses.

Raised On Riots
05-07-2009, 07:42 PM
Because that blueprint didn't win us any championships.

Look at the Steelers, the line is good but nowhere near what we had. Same with the Pats, or Cardinals, the Giants, or even to a lesser extent the Colts. But they ALL had at least one gamebreaking WR or even 2.

Yep.
Today's game, and Haley's in particular, is the opposite of R-R-P-K.

P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P okay, throw in a run for shits and giggles...P-P-P-P-P-P-P etc.

milkman
05-07-2009, 07:46 PM
Because that blueprint didn't win us any championships.

Look at the Steelers, the line is good but nowhere near what we had. Same with the Pats, or Cardinals, the Giants, or even to a lesser extent the Colts. But they ALL had at least one gamebreaking WR or even 2.

The problem with that blueprint that didn't win us anything was they forgot to add defense to the plan.

I am not suggesting that building a great O-Line is the only way to build a championship calibre team.

I've pointed out those same teams when discussing building teams in debate.

What I am saying is that it appeared that O-Line was where the value in this draft was to be found, and we appear to have completely ignored that.

MoreLemonPledge
05-07-2009, 07:48 PM
What I am saying is that it appeared that O-Line was where the value in this draft was to be found, and we appear to have completely ignored that.

O-Line was (is) a need, but D-Line was the top priority. They did the right thing with the first picks.

milkman
05-07-2009, 07:51 PM
O-Line was (is) a need, but D-Line was the top priority. They did the right thing with the first picks.

I don't disagree.

But they didn't appear to do the right thing with later picks.

htismaqe
05-07-2009, 08:12 PM
I don't disagree.

But they didn't appear to do the right thing with later picks.

They're trying to build a complete team. There was certainly OL to be had in the later rounds, but how many of those guys are going to be instant starters and does their ability to start/not start right away outweigh their fit into the long-term plan?

I wish they would have drafted some OL too, it seems like an obvious problem to us. But sometimes throwing sheer numbers at a problem isn't the only solution.

And it might just be that they have a solution in mind and we just don't know what it is.

Cormac
05-07-2009, 09:36 PM
The problem with that blueprint that didn't win us anything was they forgot to add defense to the plan.

I am not suggesting that building a great O-Line is the only way to build a championship calibre team.

I've pointed out those same teams when discussing building teams in debate.

What I am saying is that it appeared that O-Line was where the value in this draft was to be found, and we appear to have completely ignored that.

Hopefully it means that they see value in guys like Herb Taylor. Sadly, they also presumably see value in McIntosh.

Frankie
05-07-2009, 09:50 PM
i have reported EVERY post he has made. and who keeps pos. reppin him? they should be banned too

Don't tell me Tom C is back!

Frankie
05-07-2009, 09:52 PM
I almost wish he'd do what he says he'd do.

I'd love to see LJ kick his racist ass.

Hey we haven't had a good cheer for LJ in a long time. This would guarantee one.

htismaqe
05-08-2009, 08:18 AM
Hopefully it means that they see value in guys like Herb Taylor. Sadly, they also presumably see value in McIntosh.

Or they didn't see an upgrade in this draft.

milkman
05-09-2009, 07:18 AM
They're trying to build a complete team. There was certainly OL to be had in the later rounds, but how many of those guys are going to be instant starters and does their ability to start/not start right away outweigh their fit into the long-term plan?

I wish they would have drafted some OL too, it seems like an obvious problem to us. But sometimes throwing sheer numbers at a problem isn't the only solution.

And it might just be that they have a solution in mind and we just don't know what it is.

I don't want to come off like I'm saying I know more than Scott Pioli, but I do believe that there were 3 or 4 guys in the mid to late rounds who were capable of starting right away, and who hvae some reall upside potential on the O-Line.

One of the reasons I preferred to go after an Eric DeCosta or one of the Steeler execs rather than Pioli is I like Raven and Steeler approach to the draft and to building a team better than the Patriots.

We've had this discussion before, but the only thing that put the Patriots ahead of the game is they lucked into an all time great QB in the sixth round.

htismaqe
05-09-2009, 07:27 AM
I don't want to come off like I'm saying I know more than Scott Pioli, but I do believe that there were 3 or 4 guys in the mid to late rounds who were capable of starting right away, and who hvae some reall upside potential on the O-Line.

One of the reasons I preferred to go after an Eric DeCosta or one of the Steeler execs rather than Pioli is I like Raven and Steeler approach to the draft and to building a team better than the Patriots.

We've had this discussion before, but the only thing that put the Patriots ahead of the game is they lucked into an all time great QB in the sixth round.

And that won them an instant SB in 2001. However, their defenses in the middle of the run were good enough to win it all with a franchise QB not named Tom Brady. So far, the approach we've taken seems to mirror that.

milkman
05-09-2009, 07:37 AM
And that won them an instant SB in 2001. However, their defenses in the middle of the run were good enough to win it all with a franchise QB not named Tom Brady. So far, the approach we've taken seems to mirror that.

That's debatable.

The Chiefs D of the 90s and the Ravens D for much of this decade were SB quality, but without a franchise QB, they fell/have fallen short, with one exception.

htismaqe
05-09-2009, 08:46 AM
That's debatable.

The Chiefs D of the 90s and the Ravens D for much of this decade were SB quality, but without a franchise QB, they fell/have fallen short, with one exception.

It said with a FRANCHISE QB, just not one named Tom Brady.

Having the QB is essential, but after him, the Patriots were about the defense. So far, we've done just that - acquired a QB and started on the defense.

milkman
05-09-2009, 08:54 AM
It said with a FRANCHISE QB, just not one named Tom Brady.

Having the QB is essential, but after him, the Patriots were about the defense. So far, we've done just that - acquired a QB and started on the defense.

The value in this draft seemed to be on the O-Line.
The value in next year's draft seems to be on defense.

I don't like what they've done.
It appears they are forcing things.

Frankie
05-09-2009, 10:41 AM
.... but I do believe that there were 3 or 4 guys in the mid to late rounds who were capable of starting right away,....

My sentiment as well.

Buehler445
05-09-2009, 11:45 AM
The value in this draft seemed to be on the O-Line.
The value in next year's draft seems to be on defense.

I don't like what they've done.
It appears they are forcing things.

I thought that too. But that doesn't mean there isn't any defensive talent. The talent at the #3 pick was atrocious. Just horrible. So I won't comment on that pick, but I don't think they overpaid for Magee.

Gah, don't like the Washington pick. I agree there may have been better value there. But he is a good athlete. There is hope for him to be a BAMF.

Collin Brown is OLine, but I don't know much about him. Hopefully they see something. He's got some size, so it doesn't appear to be a hopeless pick.

I really like the Lawrence pick. I do. Hopefully his transition is relatively easy.

Williams is a decent pick. I'm not upset about it.

7th round TE. WTF? Seriously.

Kicker. Probably could have gotten him in UDFA. BUT I don't know how competitive it is. It seems like some teams try to target guys and it never works out, so I'm OK with it if they think they may have been beaten to the punch in UDFA.

All in all, it's not the way I viewed the value, but other than the #3 and the 7th round TE, there is at least hope for the draft picks. I see where you are coming from with the forcing it, but if the 2 DEs work out and we manage to land a NT, the defense COULD (hopefully) be a couple LBs away from respectable. If the 2 DEs bust, it will hurt badly. Very very badly.

Cormac
05-09-2009, 11:59 AM
Or they didn't see an upgrade in this draft.

True. The fact they went RB/CB in the later rounds seems to illustrate that they had a BPA approach to drafting - and our team has holes at just about every position. I still wonder, though, if they passed on OL in those rounds because they didn't like any OL or because they do like Herb Taylor, Richardson or other depth that we already have.....:shrug:

Reaper16
05-09-2009, 01:27 PM
The value in this draft seemed to be on the O-Line.
The value in next year's draft seems to be on defense.

I don't like what they've done.
It appears they are forcing things.
Why aren't dozens of posters assailing you for this post? This is precisely the sentiment that Hamas and Mecca were expressing on draft weekend.

(obv. I am in total agreement with you)

Raised On Riots
05-09-2009, 02:15 PM
That's debatable.

The Chiefs D of the 90s and the Ravens D for much of this decade were SB quality, but without a franchise QB, they fell/have fallen short, with one exception.

Why aren't dozens of posters assailing you for this post? This is precisely the sentiment that Hamas and Mecca were expressing on draft weekend.

(obv. I am in total agreement with you)

It was about need more so than BPA. Anyone who feels different is fooling themselves.

Baconeater
05-09-2009, 02:53 PM
Why aren't dozens of posters assailing you for this post? This is precisely the sentiment that Hamas and Mecca were expressing on draft weekend.

(obv. I am in total agreement with you)
Oh come on, it wasn't the message with those two, it was the often condescending and abusive manner in which it was delivered. Did you really not ever notice that?

Reaper16
05-09-2009, 02:55 PM
Oh come on, it wasn't the message with those two, it was the often condescending and abusive manner in which it was delivered. Did you really not ever notice that?
You don't remember Mecca's tone during the latter portion of day 2, then.

Raised On Riots
05-09-2009, 02:58 PM
Oh come on, it wasn't the message with those two, it was the often condescending and abusive manner in which it was delivered. Did you really not ever notice that?

Oh, you mean the entertaining part that created the butt-hurt that built the Great Wall of China!

Yes, yes I do remember it! It was fun! Here's a new theme song for the Planet and quite fitting me thinks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsKO_r76kfQ
:rolleyes:

Baconeater
05-09-2009, 03:00 PM
You don't remember Mecca's tone during the latter portion of day 2, then.
Yeah, I do, but IMO that doesn't really make up for 3 months of subtle jabs at pretty much the entire fan base for not being as "informed" as him.

Cormac
05-09-2009, 03:03 PM
Oh come on, it wasn't the message with those two, it was the often condescending and abusive manner in which it was delivered. Did you really not ever notice that?

Exactly.

Reaper16
05-09-2009, 03:23 PM
Yeah, I do, but IMO that doesn't really make up for 3 months of subtle jabs at pretty much the entire fan base for not being as "informed" as him.
Whatever. The scores of n00bs who thought that we should take Curry at #3 deserved all of the scorn that they got.

Why did this place become so thin-skinned?

the Talking Can
05-09-2009, 05:32 PM
The value in this draft seemed to be on the O-Line.
The value in next year's draft seems to be on defense.

I don't like what they've done.
It appears they are forcing things.

perfectly legitimate position to take

i think they looked at our team and decided the DL was worse than the OL...based on our defense's ranking and run defense, it is easy to see why they would...

that coupled with the desire to go with the 3-4, and their assessment of the draft (obviously different than the fans), defined their focus...

I also don't think they'd simply sit back and allow Cassel to get murdered, which means they believe they have the pieces to provide him sufficient protection for a year....

i don't think they're forcing things, I think they are operating rationally based on their own beliefs of our teams' strengths and weaknesses...clearly this differs from what most fans believe to be our strengths and weaknesses...

we'll see the results soon enough...

Cormac
05-09-2009, 06:16 PM
perfectly legitimate position to take

i think they looked at our team and decided the DL was worse than the OL...based on our defense's ranking and run defense, it is easy to see why they would...

that coupled with the desire to go with the 3-4, and their assessment of the draft (obviously different than the fans), defined their focus...

I also don't think they'd simply sit back and allow Cassel to get murdered, which means they believe they have the pieces to provide him sufficient protection for a year....

i don't think they're forcing things, I think they are operating rationally based on their own beliefs of our teams' strengths and weaknesses...clearly this differs from what most fans believe to be our strengths and weaknesses...

we'll see the results soon enough...

I agree. And coming back from 2-14 to contender is not going to happen in 1 year (most likely). I'll be upset if we blow 2 high picks on the DL again next year. But so far, they're concentrating on 1 glaring need.

Cormac
05-09-2009, 06:18 PM
Whatever. The scores of n00bs who thought that we should take Curry at #3 deserved all of the scorn that they got.

Why did this place become so thin-skinned?

Thin skin has nothing to do with it. It seemed every thread degenerated into an abortion within 5 posts because somebody's opinion got shot down by a know-it-all. Their opinions count for the same as yours or mine: **** all.

el borracho
05-09-2009, 06:20 PM
Um, run him until his legs fall off, is my guess.

milkman
05-09-2009, 09:36 PM
perfectly legitimate position to take

i think they looked at our team and decided the DL was worse than the OL...based on our defense's ranking and run defense, it is easy to see why they would...

that coupled with the desire to go with the 3-4, and their assessment of the draft (obviously different than the fans), defined their focus...

I also don't think they'd simply sit back and allow Cassel to get murdered, which means they believe they have the pieces to provide him sufficient protection for a year....

i don't think they're forcing things, I think they are operating rationally based on their own beliefs of our teams' strengths and weaknesses...clearly this differs from what most fans believe to be our strengths and weaknesses...

we'll see the results soon enough...

That, TC, is the most well reasoned thought out response I could have asked for, and I think you very well could be rightg.

Thanks.

htismaqe
05-10-2009, 08:29 AM
I still wonder, though, if they passed on OL in those rounds because they didn't like any OL or because they do like Herb Taylor, Richardson or other depth that we already have.....:shrug:

Probably a little of both...

htismaqe
05-10-2009, 08:30 AM
perfectly legitimate position to take

i think they looked at our team and decided the DL was worse than the OL...based on our defense's ranking and run defense, it is easy to see why they would...

that coupled with the desire to go with the 3-4, and their assessment of the draft (obviously different than the fans), defined their focus...

I also don't think they'd simply sit back and allow Cassel to get murdered, which means they believe they have the pieces to provide him sufficient protection for a year....

i don't think they're forcing things, I think they are operating rationally based on their own beliefs of our teams' strengths and weaknesses...clearly this differs from what most fans believe to be our strengths and weaknesses...

we'll see the results soon enough...

Egg-freakin-zackly.

the Talking Can
05-10-2009, 08:52 AM
That, TC, is the most well reasoned thought out response I could have asked for, and I think you very well could be rightg.

Thanks.

i wouldn't have done things the way they have, and I'm closer to your opinions in spirit...but I'm also really tired of being disappointed, and after the cassel trade i just decided to roll with it....we'll know a hell of a lot more about the team, the coaches, and the decisions after this year...so much is in flux right now...

you've been spot on about various OL players, so I take your criticisms seriously...all i can do at the moment is cross my fingers and take solace in the fact that we aren't dealing with Herm and Carl and Huard/Thigpen...

htismaqe
05-10-2009, 11:43 AM
i wouldn't have done things the way they have, and I'm closer to your opinions in spirit...but I'm also really tired of being disappointed, and after the cassel trade i just decided to roll with it....we'll know a hell of a lot more about the team, the coaches, and the decisions after this year...so much is in flux right now...

you've been spot on about various OL players, so I take your criticisms seriously...all i can do at the moment is cross my fingers and take solace in the fact that we aren't dealing with Herm and Carl and Huard/Thigpen...

:clap:

Almost exactly how I feel about it.

wild1
05-10-2009, 11:53 AM
In addition to what the talking can said, we can take solace in the fact that we aren't dealing with a distant owner anymore. No disrespect to Lamar Hunt, but with his health in decline I think the Chiefs were far from his top priority in recent years - as it should be, of course family and such is more important than sports especially in your final years.

Here was a guy who Clark's dad had put faith in for 20 years running his business, who I'm sure Lamar really liked. Clark didn't take long to fire him. He was so displeased he canned him in the middle of the season, with 1 year left on his deal. Herm too.

Whatever you think about Pioli and Haley's moves thus far, with Clark in the big office at the end of the hall, I have faith that if this doesn't work, he's not going to wait around for 10 years. Clark is paying two GMs and two head coaches this year because he thought a year in the life of a franchise is too valuable to lose with a failed management team.

You can take heart in the fact that these guys know what they are doing, but if for some reason it doesn't work, Clark has shown that he'll step in and clean house.

the Talking Can
05-10-2009, 01:57 PM
I
Whatever you think about Pioli and Haley's moves thus far, with Clark in the big office at the end of the hall, I have faith that if this doesn't work, he's not going to wait around for 10 years.

agree

StcChief
05-10-2009, 04:06 PM
In addition to what the talking can said, we can take solace in the fact that we aren't dealing with a distant owner anymore. No disrespect to Lamar Hunt, but with his health in decline I think the Chiefs were far from his top priority in recent years - as it should be, of course family and such is more important than sports especially in your final years.

Here was a guy who Clark's dad had put faith in for 20 years running his business, who I'm sure Lamar really liked. Clark didn't take long to fire him. He was so displeased he canned him in the middle of the season, with 1 year left on his deal. Herm too.

Whatever you think about Pioli and Haley's moves thus far, with Clark in the big office at the end of the hall, I have faith that if this doesn't work, he's not going to wait around for 10 years. Clark is paying two GMs and two head coaches this year because he thought a year in the life of a franchise is too valuable to lose with a failed management team.

You can take heart in the fact that these guys know what they are doing, but if for some reason it doesn't work, Clark has shown that he'll step in and clean house.Lamar's loyality cost Chiefs. Glad to see Clark say enough.... I'm sure Pioli/Haley know they really don't have years to produce, based on their past experience (Pats) with winning francises.Cardinals now so much, but Bill Bowtie Bidwell is really their issue.
Classify him as the "Al Davis" of NFC.

Raised On Riots
05-10-2009, 04:17 PM
:clap:

Almost exactly how I feel about it.

I can't remember if it was in the Pioli podcast, but somewhere in an official interview that I listened to, the phrase "you can't just yell, you've got to teach" was uttered in relation to Krumrie.
This gives me wood.:D