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View Full Version : Money NFT: Child wants to join school band


Archie F. Swin
05-07-2009, 09:33 PM
My daughter will start 6th grade next school year and has decided to take band as an elective. She wants to play the trumpet. When I made that same decision many years ago it just so happened my mom and dad has a trumpet in the closet...so the choice was easy. Now, 24 years later...we have to provide my daughter an instrument. So, I have the choice of buying a new or used trumpet locally or online (even ebay) or renting an insturment with a repair plan.

I'm looking for advice on the most cost effective way to acquire an instrument keeping in mind that 2 years down the road, she may decide that the trumpet isn't her instument. Chances are there are some planeteers that have been down this road.

Whaddya think?

luv
05-07-2009, 09:36 PM
I know there's a place here that advertises rent to own. Of course, if she decides she doesn't like it after you've nearly paid enough to have paid for it, then you're out that money.

DaFace
05-07-2009, 09:49 PM
A lot of kids (myself included) get really into an instrument in school, then give it up afterward. Because of that, the online used market is pretty good for buyers. I'd go that route if I were you.

Baconeater
05-07-2009, 10:10 PM
If you rent one, make sure when you take possession of it that you document every single flaw in it, no matter how minor it may seem, and have the rental company sign it acknowledging the condition of it, otherwise you can be sure you'll be getting charged for it when you return it. That includes the case as well.

Mr. Flopnuts
05-07-2009, 10:15 PM
For $150 you could buy a basic one.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000A39GW0

SNR
05-07-2009, 10:19 PM
If you buy a cheap model and she sticks with it, you'll have to upgrade it eventually. Playing a cheap instrument forever and ever isn't good for their progress. When students hear themselves making good sounds on an instrument, they like it a lot more, and you're more likely to make better sounds on a quality instrument than a piece of shit. Especially a few years down the line after she starts playing.

Renting to own for the first 2-3 years or so is usually a good option. After that, you can probably go ahead and buy her a nicer one. She'll probably continue to play it in high school after that.

Ultra Peanut
05-07-2009, 10:24 PM
Tell her she can earn it like her father earned it: by working in the mines.

If you have no mines nearby, just drive as far as you have to. This will teach her the value of teamwork.

SNR
05-07-2009, 10:32 PM
Tell her she can earn it like her father earned it: by working in the mines.

If you have no mines nearby, just drive as far as you have to. This will teach her the value of teamwork.Your father got to WORK in the mines? Lucky! My dad was shoved into a canary cage and lowered down into the mineshaft for hours on end.

J Diddy
05-07-2009, 10:45 PM
If you buy a cheap model and she sticks with it, you'll have to upgrade it eventually. Playing a cheap instrument forever and ever isn't good for their progress. When students hear themselves making good sounds on an instrument, they like it a lot more, and you're more likely to make better sounds on a quality instrument than a piece of shit. Especially a few years down the line after she starts playing.

Renting to own for the first 2-3 years or so is usually a good option. After that, you can probably go ahead and buy her a nicer one. She'll probably continue to play it in high school after that.

To me this is the best advice.

Mr. Flopnuts
05-07-2009, 10:48 PM
For $150 you could buy a basic one.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000A39GW0

Here's why this is the best option. If she decides she doesn't like it, you can resell it for around $100 on craigslist or Ebay. Hell, you may get all your money back for it. Chances are, even if she hates it, you're gonna spend more than $50 in rental fees.

FAX
05-08-2009, 12:44 AM
If you buy a cheap model and she sticks with it, you'll have to upgrade it eventually. Playing a cheap instrument forever and ever isn't good for their progress. When students hear themselves making good sounds on an instrument, they like it a lot more, and you're more likely to make better sounds on a quality instrument than a piece of shit. Especially a few years down the line after she starts playing.

Renting to own for the first 2-3 years or so is usually a good option. After that, you can probably go ahead and buy her a nicer one. She'll probably continue to play it in high school after that.

Mr. SNR comin' hard with the good advice.

FAX

BigVE
05-08-2009, 01:49 AM
Both of my kids are/were band "geeks". We bought them cheaper instruments at first then upgraded later on when we thought they were going to take it serious and stick with it. The rent to own deals are a crock and a racket IMO, kind of along the lines of a rent to own TV deal. We paid just over $100 for a decent trumpet for my son the first time around and then only spent around $200 when we upgraded...both off of ebay. Good luck.

Darien25
05-08-2009, 02:11 AM
Both of my kids are/were band "geeks". We bought them cheaper instruments at first then upgraded later on when we thought they were going to take it serious and stick with it. The rent to own deals are a crock and a racket IMO, kind of along the lines of a rent to own TV deal. We paid just over $100 for a decent trumpet for my son the first time around and then only spent around $200 when we upgraded...both off of ebay. Good luck.

Using Ebay worked great for us too. Bought two nice, used Yamaha trumpets for way less than new. The rent to own programs offered to us were basically ripoffs.

Kerberos
05-08-2009, 04:25 AM
$1.39 for a can of Bush's baked beans and the ole butt trumpet of mine is playing my wife tunes for 2 days. :D

Mile High Mania
05-08-2009, 04:44 AM
Just don't send her to band camp.... I've heard weird stories about this one time, at band camp...

Kerberos
05-08-2009, 05:41 AM
Just don't send her to band camp.... I've heard weird stories about this one time, at band camp...

"What's My Name BITCH"?

Archie F. Swin
05-08-2009, 06:13 AM
25 years ago the instrument companies I remember were Conn, King, Bundy, Yamaha etc. are there others that would be a safe bet if bought used?

htismaqe
05-08-2009, 06:58 AM
Based on my own personal experience and that of most of the people around me, I'd RENT.

About 30% of my friends/family members/acquaintances last a year. I lasted 2 years. Only person I know that actually lasted was my wife - she lasted all through high school and played in a couple of ensembles in college.

IA_Chiefs_fan
05-08-2009, 07:00 AM
I suggest Craigslist. You can probably get a good deal there.

Skip Towne
05-08-2009, 07:24 AM
Your father got to WORK in the mines? Lucky! My dad was shoved into a canary cage and lowered down into the mineshaft for hours on end.

You had a dad?

wild1
05-08-2009, 07:33 AM
rent, at first. i think a lot of kids lose interest after a year or two. you can always buy a fine used instrument a few years later if they stick with it.

jidar
05-08-2009, 07:38 AM
For both of my kids we bought instruments at the pawn shop. $150 or so get you an instrument that retails for 5xs that, but it's used. The only thing is you want to have someone who knows what they're doing check it for problems while you still have your grace period. The band teacher can probably do this for you.

Demonpenz
05-08-2009, 08:18 AM
i would buy it and if she doesn't play use youtube to learn, then find a ska band, and be buy a laptop and be too cool for people. then work at target.

Vegas_Dave
05-08-2009, 08:48 AM
My family runs 3 music stores and we specialize locally in the student market (renting over 3,000 instruments). Online, we sell a lot of step up and professional instruments.

1. Rent To Own is ALWAYS the MOST EXPENSIVE way to do it. You always go towards full retail.
2. Especially on student instruments, do not trust the internet for "price shopping". All of the makers these days employ "Minimum Pricing" agreements. This was done to help local smaller stores seem to be competitive when in reality, they are not.
3. If you are truly wanting to buy an instrument (best route should your student stick with it longer than the 1st year), always call for the best price. At my store, student instruments are sold 40-60% OFF of retail, but we cannot advertise the actual prices online.

As for cheaper instruments. Be careful. MANY of these instruments are not of great quality. My shop is 1st and foremost a repair shop. Many of these cheap instruments do not have the ability to have replacement parts ordered.

We sell our own line of low priced instruments to combat this. We evaluate them from the standpoint of durability, repairability and playability (as we are musicians ourselves). Price is not our #1 priority because we are more interested in a quality instrument rather than just a cheap instrument. Our trumpet for instance is $219. We do stock repair parts.

Also with many cheap instruments, the mouthpieces included are truly sub par. Many people do not realize how detrimental this can be. The sound formation starts first at the mouthpiece, so a bad mouthpiece and it really does not matter how good the horn is. On our instruments, we throw away the stock mouthpiece and replace it with a good quality piece.

As for MAJOR name brands.
Dont trust a name just because it has a history. All of the major name brands have started to outsource many student models due to price. So do your research on the particular model first. When these companies oursource, many times you are simply paying more for the name than you should.

Used Rentals
IF you decide to rent, I always recommend used. it is less expensive. Let them learn to care for the instrument on a used one. Make sure not to rent for more than a year. Frankly, I recommend only renting for a few months to guage the student's interest. After that (around Christmas time perhaps), look at purchasing sooner as it saves you money.

Rental Rates
This is the biggest issue. Many places charge too much for rentals. In my shop, our rental rates on a trumpet are:

Used: $13-$16 per month, first 2 months free, 1 month minimum rental (payment). Strictly month to month.

New: $19 per month. 1 month minimum rental. Month to month.

If you are paying more than that locally, do not rent.

If you (or anyone else) has any questions on this, feel free to drop me a line at music@kesslermusic.com (www.kesslermusic.com (http://www.kesslermusic.com)).

I do recommend always first trying to support your local dealer. But if they are looking to simply overcharge, then you need to do what is best for you and your family.

Demonpenz
05-08-2009, 08:54 AM
My family runs 3 music stores and we specialize locally in the student market (renting over 3,000 instruments). Online, we sell a lot of step up and professional instruments.

1. Rent To Own is ALWAYS the MOST EXPENSIVE way to do it. You always go towards full retail.
2. Especially on student instruments, do not trust the internet for "price shopping". All of the makers these days employ "Minimum Pricing" agreements. This was done to help local smaller stores seem to be competitive when in reality, they are not.
3. If you are truly wanting to buy an instrument (best route should your student stick with it longer than the 1st year), always call for the best price. At my store, student instruments are sold 40-60% OFF of retail, but we cannot advertise the actual prices online.

As for cheaper instruments. Be careful. MANY of these instruments are not of great quality. My shop is 1st and foremost a repair shop. Many of these cheap instruments do not have the ability to have replacement parts ordered.

We sell our own line of low priced instruments to combat this. We evaluate them from the standpoint of durability, repairability and playability (as we are musicians ourselves). Price is not our #1 priority because we are more interested in a quality instrument rather than just a cheap instrument. Our trumpet for instance is $219. We do stock repair parts.

Also with many cheap instruments, the mouthpieces included are truly sub par. Many people do not realize how detrimental this can be. The sound formation starts first at the mouthpiece, so a bad mouthpiece and it really does not matter how good the horn is. On our instruments, we throw away the stock mouthpiece and replace it with a good quality piece.

As for MAJOR name brands.
Dont trust a name just because it has a history. All of the major name brands have started to outsource many student models due to price. So do your research on the particular model first. When these companies oursource, many times you are simply paying more for the name than you should.

Used Rentals
IF you decide to rent, I always recommend used. it is less expensive. Let them learn to care for the instrument on a used one. Make sure not to rent for more than a year. Frankly, I recommend only renting for a few months to guage the student's interest. After that (around Christmas time perhaps), look at purchasing sooner as it saves you money.

Rental Rates
This is the biggest issue. Many places charge too much for rentals. In my shop, our rental rates on a trumpet are:

Used: $13-$16 per month, first 2 months free, 1 month minimum rental (payment). Strictly month to month.

New: $19 per mony. 1 month minimum rental. Month to month.

If you are paying more than that locally, do not rent.

If you (or anyone else) has any questions on this, feel free to drop me a line at music@kesslermusic.com (www.kesslermusic.com (http://www.kesslermusic.com)).

I do recommend always first trying to support your local dealer. But if they are looking to simply overcharge, then you need to do what is best for you and your family.


no offence dude, but you don't know what you are talking about

Mr. Flopnuts
05-08-2009, 08:56 AM
http://k43.pbase.com/o5/42/267742/1/68416045.wGDPMlLK.popcorn.gif

Demonpenz
05-08-2009, 08:58 AM
i'm sorry he needs to be focusing on being in a ska band.

Saggysack
05-08-2009, 09:01 AM
I would check with your school district and see if they rent instruments out for the school year to students. My daughter is presently in the 6th grade and plays the trumpet. We rented her trumpet through the school district, IIRC it was $50 for the entire school year. She recieved a brand new Yamaha trumpet, thankfully, and not a some broke dick piece of scrap metal with 13yrs worth of spit from 12yr olds.

I wouldn't buy one right out the gate. Rent one and if your daughter sticks with it, or goes to a different instrument, then start looking to buy.

Mr. Flopnuts
05-08-2009, 09:07 AM
i'm sorry he needs to be focusing on being in a ska band.

Dave's a little busy in the masterbation thread. He'll be along shortly to tell you to FUCK OFF.

Radar Chief
05-08-2009, 09:07 AM
I would check with your school district and see if they rent instruments out for the school year to students. My daughter is presently in the 6th grade and plays the trumpet. We rented her trumpet through the school district, IIRC it was $50 for the entire school year. She recieved a brand new Yamaha trumpet, thankfully, and not a some broke dick piece of scrap metal with 13yrs worth of spit from 12yr olds.

I wouldn't buy one right out the gate. Rent one and if your daughter sticks with it, or goes to a different instrument, then start looking to buy.

Good idea. My dad is a retired band teacher and he used to keep several instruments as loaners, so check with your child’s band teacher / school first.

Vegas_Dave
05-08-2009, 09:13 AM
I would check with your school district and see if they rent instruments out for the school year to students. My daughter is presently in the 6th grade and plays the trumpet. We rented her trumpet through the school district, IIRC it was $50 for the entire school year. She recieved a brand new Yamaha trumpet, thankfully, and not a some broke dick piece of scrap metal with 13yrs worth of spit from 12yr olds.

I wouldn't buy one right out the gate. Rent one and if your daughter sticks with it, or goes to a different instrument, then start looking to buy.

Many districts unfortunately do not have the instruments to give. Some do. IF the school does have its own instruments, then for the 1st year, this is absolutely a good idea.

Archie F. Swin
07-14-2009, 02:22 PM
Looks like I'll be looking to buy used. Based on their rental rates....all the local store owners are crooks.

Baby Lee
07-14-2009, 02:37 PM
Perhaps the best thing to happen outside my control was the 6th grade band teacher advising against me playing the trumpet because I had braces. Played the clarinet in 6th grade, just to get a start [parent's bought a student model that was passed on to my sis thereafter]. But with JHS came the chance to play a school supplied tenor sax. By the time I got to HS, I had shown sufficient commitment that my parent's ponied up for a [then] $2500 Selmer Super Action 80. It helped that they had a closeout for [I think] $1500. One of the true loves of my life.

It runs $5500-6500 nowadays.

Long Duk Dong
07-14-2009, 03:43 PM
Just don't send her to band camp.... I've heard weird stories about this one time, at band camp...

"This one time, at band camp..."

RJ
07-14-2009, 04:14 PM
I have no idea if this is still good advice today, but years ago I would visit pawn shops for musical instruments and equipment. I still have my first guitar, an Ibanez that I bought in a pawn shop for $50. Sounds just as good as it did 35 years ago, it's a shame I don't play it better.