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B_Ambuehl
05-11-2009, 12:22 PM
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/05/does-pioli-draft-on-character/


Does Pioli Draft On Character?

The Kansas City Chiefs and new General Manager Scott Pioli went through their first draft together last month with mixed reviews. Now, we are hearing some rumblings that the Chiefs have drafted some players with character issues. Today we take a look at some of Pioli’s draft picks and decide if he is drafting for wins over character.

Character Counts?

Look, we all know that character is a big word that is thrown around the NFL these days. Fans question it and the media runs with it—while the teams involved talk about it from a distance.

Does it matter? In my opinion, yes and no. Do you draft a guy that can help your team win, knowing that he brings with him some extra luggage that could lead to future issues as a professional athlete? Or, do you just bypass the player all together, not taking the time or the effort to sweep his background under the rug? And what about work ethic? Is this something that can be cured at the NFL Level?

Hey, I know as well as anybody that you have to roll the dice on some players in this league to win, and like I have said before the NFL is the business of winning.

But, are the Chiefs and Pioli—the same guy who came from New England where character never seemed to deter that franchise—falling under the spell that character is not a concern in the NFL when it comes to winning? Or, does Pioli know more than we do after I talked to some people around the league about some issues in his current draft class?

That is the question for us today, and something that our own Michael Lombardi wrote about yesterday in his Sunday column when discussing the Chiefs recent draft class—and the character issues that are coming along for the ride.

The Draft

Drafts are unknowns, and that is why we don’t hand out ludicrous draft grades here at the NFP in the spring. Nobody knows who is going to play well as a pro, or who is going to flop once they put that NFL jersey on.

And, that is why I am not talking today about Tyson Jackson going No. 3 overall to the Chiefs. Was it a reach? Who knows, and if we want to go there, then count every single one of the top ten picks as a reach—because we don’t know if they will ever be able to produce in this league.

But, we can speculate on character as it applies to the draft. Yes, I agree that the Chiefs and Pioli shouldn’t be compared with the Bengals when it comes to their current draft class—yet—but there are some names in front of me today that at least make me wonder.

Our own NFP Draft Expert, Wes Bunting shared his notes with me on four draft picks in KC that have me scratching my head today.

Jake O’Connell, TE Miami (Ohio)- Blessed athlete that never took to coaching and never developed as a big time threat. 6-3, 250 with 4.5 speed, but never real productive and lacked technique and polish. Always relied on his athletic ability and never put in the work on the practice field.

Javriss Williams, RB, Tenn. St- Refused to sit at a big time school, elected to go to a small school and play right away. Rubbed some people the wrong way on the recruiting trail, but is said to be a “good guy” from the coaching staff.

Quinten Lawrence, WR, McNeese St- Injury concern, has had trouble staying healthy. Has a track body. Has had trouble adding bulk to his frame over the years. Questionable work ethic in the weight room, is only 6-0, 183 and is said to have simply packed it in after his ankle injury his senior year to get ready for the pros.

Donald Washington, DB, Ohio State- Was suspended the first two games of the 2008 season for violating team rules at Ohio State.

Character issues and work ethic in a Scott Pioli draft? Like me, many of the people I talk to in NFL circles are asking the same thing: What is the theory behind drafting these players that most clubs would shy away from?

Does it matter on the field?

Not really—until those character issues become a major issue that prevents these players from performing on Sundays.

We all know there are plenty of prospects that come into this league with some backgrounds that are eye opening to say the least, but at the end of the day, they are still very good football players. And I agree that this is a discussion that probably has no clear ending in site, because what do you sacrifice for the betterment of the public eye? Wins? Not at this level, folks.

But, it still makes us think when discussing Pioli, because this is not something we are accustomed with when discussing his past as a personnel executive.

I don’t remember an instance in New England when Pioli took a player that has some red flags attached to his name. Yes, you can tell me all you want about the Patriots signing Randy Moss as a free agent after he flamed out in Oakland, but I know for a fact that Moss was told to play by the Patriots’ rules or he was gone.

Maybe that is what Pioli is doing in Kansas City. Or, maybe he is drafting to win—and that’s it. Because at the end of the day that will be the deciding factor when we judge his first season in Kansas City.

MoreLemonPledge
05-11-2009, 12:26 PM
Jake O’Connell, TE Miami (Ohio)- Blessed athlete that never took to coaching and never developed as a big time threat. 6-3, 250 with 4.5 speed, but never real productive and lacked technique and polish. Always relied on his athletic ability and never put in the work on the practice field.

Javriss Williams, RB, Tenn. St- Refused to sit at a big time school, elected to go to a small school and play right away. Rubbed some people the wrong way on the recruiting trail, but is said to be a “good guy” from the coaching staff.

Quinten Lawrence, WR, McNeese St- Injury concern, has had trouble staying healthy. Has a track body. Has had trouble adding bulk to his frame over the years. Questionable work ethic in the weight room, is only 6-0, 183 and is said to have simply packed it in after his ankle injury his senior year to get ready for the pros.

These aren't even character issues. WTF is the point of this article?

Chiefnj2
05-11-2009, 12:28 PM
I'm willing to bet the author has never met and/or interviewed any of the players he is questioning, nor did he directly speak with any of their coaches.

htismaqe
05-11-2009, 12:30 PM
Interestingly enough, the author of article doesn't approve of the thread title.

But, we can speculate on character as it applies to the draft. Yes, I agree that the Chiefs and Pioli shouldn’t be compared with the Bengals when it comes to their current draft class—yet—but there are some names in front of me today that at least make me wonder.

Go figure.

Mr. Kotter
05-11-2009, 12:31 PM
I'm willing to bet the author has never met and/or interviewed any of the players he is questioning, nor did he directly speak with any of their coaches.


Yup.

Kyle DeLexus
05-11-2009, 12:32 PM
These aren't even character issues. WTF is the point of this article?

I agree, JFC

DaWolf
05-11-2009, 12:32 PM
So to review, two 7th rounders, a 6th rounder and a 4th rounder with questions equates to becoming the Bengals?

My thinking is that at this point in the draft, pretty much everyone has some kind of issue, otherwise they'd be a higher pick.

You can take a few scouting notes and do whatever you want with them, but the reason people find gems in the late rounds is because they go beyond the scouting notes and reports and do their homework. Did the Chiefs do that? Who knows. These guys may all be out of the league in a few years. But c'mon, this guy is just struggling to come up with a story here...

kc rush
05-11-2009, 12:32 PM
These aren't even character issues. WTF is the point of this article?

My thoughts as well while reading through this.

Reaper16
05-11-2009, 12:32 PM
It seems that Reed Richards wrote that article.

RustShack
05-11-2009, 12:35 PM
Is it just me or was Washington the only one close to having character issues?

MoreLemonPledge
05-11-2009, 12:37 PM
Is it just me or was Washington the only one close to having character issues?

And he was suspended for unspecified reasons. Maybe he wore the wrong color sweater vest to practice and Jim Tressel was in a pissy mood.

the Talking Can
05-11-2009, 12:40 PM
talk about making stuff up

a 6th round pick with an injury history makes us the bengals?

that is WPI level stupidity

B_Ambuehl
05-11-2009, 12:40 PM
It amazes me the number of excuses homer goggles create. Those are the same type of excuses the Bengals use on a yearly basis. If the Raiders or Bengals had drafted these same players all you people making excuses would be laughing at them and saying "same old same old"

Reaper16
05-11-2009, 12:41 PM
It amazes me the number of excuses homer goggles create. Those are the same type of excuses the Bengals use on a yearly basis. If the Raiders or Bengals had drafted these same players all you people making excuses would be laughing at them and saying "same old same old"
No.

Pants
05-11-2009, 12:42 PM
It amazes me the number of excuses homer goggles create. Those are the same type of excuses the Bengals use on a yearly basis. If the Raiders or Bengals had drafted these same players all you people making excuses would be laughing at them and saying "same old same old"

Yeah, no.

That article = fail. Prolly written by jew, amirite?

Just Passin' By
05-11-2009, 12:43 PM
It amazes me the number of excuses homer goggles create. Those are the same type of excuses the Bengals use on a yearly basis. If the Raiders or Bengals had drafted these same players all you people making excuses would be laughing at them and saying "same old same old"

Is your life really so empty that you have to troll a thread with a title that the author of the story doesn't even agree with? Is your life truly that shallow and wasted?

shammus
05-11-2009, 12:44 PM
I was sorta hoping that, based on the title of the thread, we were going after Levi Jones....

Chiefnj2
05-11-2009, 12:47 PM
If Pioli wasn't such a Jew, he'd draft better.

signed B Ambuehl.

MoreLemonPledge
05-11-2009, 12:47 PM
I've got an idea for an article.

CHIEFS ARE GOING TO BE ****ING TERRIBLE NEXT YEAR

Three paragraphs in: Now I don't necessarily agree that the Chiefs will be terrible next year.

This is basic journalism. Even in an opinion column, that's still abhorrent.

Kyle DeLexus
05-11-2009, 12:48 PM
It amazes me the number of excuses homer goggles create. Those are the same type of excuses the Bengals use on a yearly basis. If the Raiders or Bengals had drafted these same players all you people making excuses would be laughing at them and saying "same old same old"

Not really. Since Haley even got asked about Washington's history and character and said something to the tune of we looked into each player and if they are here we are comfortable with them. So to me that suspention for 2 games must not have been to big a deal.

RustShack
05-11-2009, 12:53 PM
It amazes me the number of excuses homer goggles create. Those are the same type of excuses the Bengals use on a yearly basis. If the Raiders or Bengals had drafted these same players all you people making excuses would be laughing at them and saying "same old same old"

A player that hasn't lived up to his athletic ability, a WR with a track star body, and a RB who went to a small school to play instead of sitting out a year is the same bad guys the Raiders and Bengals get shit for? ROFL

jAZ
05-11-2009, 12:54 PM
And the pretense that Pioli claims to not take on players with character questions to begin with, is just false.

Corey Dillon? Randy Moss?

It's about risk/reward and the ability of the team to handle the players issues.

tymania
05-11-2009, 12:59 PM
they weren't being payed to play football before..a little green makes the world of difference when you talk about work ethic or attitude problems. However money can also cause attitude problems.... a lot of the players mentioned werent with high profile teams and were playing sub-par teams. Can you blame them for slackin a little bit? Pioli/Haley will get them on the right direction, or they will be cut/sent to practice squad before the season, guaranteed!

tymania
05-11-2009, 01:02 PM
Not really. Since Haley even got asked about Washington's history and character and said something to the tune of we looked into each player and if they are here we are comfortable with them. So to me that suspention for 2 games must not have been to big a deal.

He probably got caught with marijuana, BFD. Everyone knows half the OSU team does it. Pretty sure Troy Smith tried to sell me some....ROFL

Molitoth
05-11-2009, 01:05 PM
Wow, what a shitty article.

Kyle DeLexus
05-11-2009, 01:10 PM
And the pretense that Pioli claims to not take on players with character questions to begin with, is just false.

Corey Dillon? Randy Moss?

It's about risk/reward and the ability of the team to handle the players issues.

Now now lets leave Garden City Community College Alumnist, Corey Dillon, out of this. Speaking of GCCC alumni, lets bring Tyson Thompson in for a look. The dude is fast. He was a great kick return man for the Cowboys and would be where Marion Barber is right now if he hadn't made a rookie mistake and ran the wrong play or something like that.

htismaqe
05-11-2009, 01:27 PM
It amazes me the number of excuses homer goggles create. Those are the same type of excuses the Bengals use on a yearly basis. If the Raiders or Bengals had drafted these same players all you people making excuses would be laughing at them and saying "same old same old"

You could have saved alot of space by just starting a thread titled "You're all idiots and I'm not" and then put "no text" in the body.

wild1
05-11-2009, 01:28 PM
the worst character issue here is that washington violated a team rule.

ooh, bengals here we come... :rolleyes:

Mr. Krab
05-11-2009, 01:31 PM
I can't figure out which is the bigger dumbass leap in logic, the article or the thread title.

Reaper16
05-11-2009, 01:34 PM
I swear to you, this is true, Colin Brown brought home two bluegill OVER THE LIMIT. I'm deeply concerned about his character!

This one time, Matt Cassel jaywalked. He should be backing up Carson Palmer again on the BUNGLES.

Rooster
05-11-2009, 01:37 PM
We are all dumber for reading that article. :spock:

DeezNutz
05-11-2009, 01:38 PM
Strike 3.

htismaqe
05-11-2009, 01:39 PM
I can't figure out which is the bigger dumbass leap in logic, the article or the thread title.

You're an idiot. You homers will make any excuse you can.

Mr. Krab
05-11-2009, 01:39 PM
Yes, I agree that the Chiefs and Pioli shouldn’t be compared with the Bengals
and yet...

Cormac
05-11-2009, 01:42 PM
I only skimmed the article, and I would like those 27 seconds back.

:spock:

htismaqe
05-11-2009, 01:42 PM
and yet...

I know. I pointed that out earlier.

It's great when you use articles to support an argument that the author himself doesn't agree with...

ROFL

Pablo
05-11-2009, 01:43 PM
I swear to you, this is true, Colin Brown brought home two bluegill OVER THE LIMIT. I'm deeply concerned about his character!

This one time, Matt Cassel jaywalked. He should be backing up Carson Palmer again on the BUNGLES.That's not even counting the time he fished on a farm pond without a valid license.

bevischief
05-11-2009, 01:44 PM
Slow news day and get paid by the word.

Pablo
05-11-2009, 01:44 PM
And this is the dumbest fucking article I've read in a while.

Claythan, if you're reading this, you totally pwn the tool that wrote this piece of trash.

Now go battle him to the death.

DaFace
05-11-2009, 01:47 PM
This is why we can't have nice things.

Brock
05-11-2009, 02:49 PM
You're like a parody of Mecca or something.

KcFanInGA
05-11-2009, 02:56 PM
Someone take this crap off of here, please. The Bengals? Do WE have anyone who changed their last name to their jersey number. I dont think going to a smaller school to start as opposed to riding the pine is a character flaw. You have a significantly reduced chance to play in the nfl if you ride the bench, so this just makes sense. Why am I even responding to this article?

Simply Red
05-11-2009, 03:07 PM
It seems that Reed Richards wrote that article.

umm, wrong, Reed Robinson, did. :D you'll never get that, but if you do; huggy?

htismaqe
05-11-2009, 04:30 PM
You're like a parody of Mecca or something.

No, this guy was around and telling us all we're stupid before Mecca ever showed up.

He's a peach.

Barret
05-11-2009, 04:38 PM
I guess you can count me in on the "people who are wasting time with this" but I think certain things need to be nipped at the bud.

The original article referenced an article by Michael Lombardi. This really wasn't an article but one of those "drive by shooting" type gee I have a thought in my head let me spew it forth upon the internet.
Here is the web site:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/05/sunday-at-the-post-3/

"Based on my conversations, the Kansas City Chiefs’ draft has many league executives curious – not about the quality of the draft, as that will take some time to determine, but about the character element, a signature and requirement of the building of the New England Patriots. The fact that the Chiefs selected some players with off-the-field issues has executives asking me, “How does character fit in Kansas City now?” "

So Matt Bowen decides to run with this paragraph that was the original post that we are all chatting about. A couple of things, Mr Lombardi doesn't say he talked to any of the major players in this Chief Story. He didn't question any of the players or question Scott Pioli. Some of the "character issues" had to do with coaching and not taking to it. Is that a character issue? I think robbing a store or doing coke or shooting someone might be character issues.

Also...uhm....Mr Lombardi, in his last sentence stated "the fact that the Chiefs selected some players with off the field issues HAS EXECUTIVES ASKING ME"......wait a second. you mean football executives at the highest level are taking time out of their busy day coming to you for advice about the Chiefs and their so-called drafting issues? I guess you feel like you are pretty important.

So on to Mr Bowens article expanding on Mr Lombardi. Actually screw it, this whole things is a joke. 2 7th rounders a 6th rounder and a 4th rounder have character issues.

Print 'em, the deal is to the character ship!!!

Halfcan
05-11-2009, 04:38 PM
the bungles have had like 20 arrest in 2 years-this is a lame attempt to besmudge the chiefs.

KCChiefsMan
05-11-2009, 05:43 PM
gay article

Cormac
05-11-2009, 06:13 PM
the bungles have had like 20 arrest in 2 years-this is a lame attempt to besmudge the chiefs.

I'm just impressed somebody found a way to use the word "besmudge"....

:D

alanm
05-11-2009, 06:17 PM
National football post???? Never heard of them.:shake:

Ebolapox
05-11-2009, 06:30 PM
same michael lombardi who was gm of the oakland raiders?

ROFL

the Talking Can
05-11-2009, 06:57 PM
It amazes me the number of excuses homer goggles create. Those are the same type of excuses the Bengals use on a yearly basis. If the Raiders or Bengals had drafted these same players all you people making excuses would be laughing at them and saying "same old same old"

when did you become retarded?

milkman
05-11-2009, 06:58 PM
when did you become retarded?

At birth.

PGM
05-11-2009, 07:03 PM
What a pathetic, POS article.