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Coogs
05-11-2009, 02:02 PM
Maybe my mind is just in the gutter, but damn... I'll bet this did create quite a buzz.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090510/SPORTS01/905100484/1048


Rookie safety Louis Delmas creates buzz at minicamp
By CARLOS MONARREZ ē FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER ē May 10, 2009


Before the Lions signed Larry Foote last week, defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham met with reporters. One kept trying to ask about rookie safety Louis Delmas but was getting interrupted by questions about linebackers. Cunningham noticed.

"I've got to answer the Delmas question," Cunningham said at the end of his interview, "because I kind of like that guy."

In his 28th year in the NFL, Cunningham has seen plenty of great players. He thinks he sees another in Delmas, whom he compared to Dale Carter, a four-time Pro Bowl cornerback with Kansas City.

"Dale Carter was kind of wiry, long and looked like he was out of control sometimes, and then he'd have the ball," Cunningham said. "When I look at Delmas now, I go, 'My God, it is like I got younger and there is Dale in front of me again.' ... We don't want to anoint the guy at all. But he came on the practice field like I believe you should come on the practice field."

Over three days of rookie minicamp last weekend, Delmas, a second-round pick from Western Michigan, outshone everyone. He made good on a promise to pick off Matthew Stafford and showed the kind of energy, enthusiasm and joy recently missing from the Allen Park practice field.

"From what I see in this young kid, he loves football," Cunningham said. "I don't know where he got it, but there's something about him that, he's not very big, and yet you see him on college tape just blowing guys up on tackles.

"Then he comes in here and threatens our first pick in the draft, and he says, 'I'm going to get it sooner or later.' He missed about three or four early, and then he took it away from him. A lot of my buddies have been texting me, saying, 'Boy, we were going to draft him.' I said, 'Well, you should have.' "

Frosty
05-11-2009, 02:13 PM
So - I wonder if Delmas will reach the greatness of Kendrell Bell? :rolleyes:

CoMoChief
05-11-2009, 02:19 PM
Gunther knows how to text msg?

Gonzo
05-11-2009, 02:21 PM
Maybe my mind is just in the gutter, but damn... I'll bet this did create quite a buzz.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090510/SPORTS01/905100484/1048


Rookie safety Louis Delmas creates buzz at minicamp
By CARLOS MONARREZ ē FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER ē May 10, 2009


Before the Lions signed Larry Foote last week, defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham met with reporters. One kept trying to ask about rookie safety Louis Delmas but was getting interrupted by questions about linebackers. Cunningham noticed.

"I've got to answer the Delmas question," Cunningham said at the end of his interview, "because I kind of like that guy."

In his 28th year in the NFL, Cunningham has seen plenty of great players. He thinks he sees another in Delmas, whom he compared to Dale Carter, a four-time Pro Bowl cornerback with Kansas City.

"Dale Carter was kind of wiry, long and looked like he was out of control sometimes, and then he'd have the ball," Cunningham said. "When I look at Delmas now, I go, 'My God, it is like I got younger and there is Dale in front of me again.' ... We don't want to anoint the guy at all. But he came on the practice field like I believe you should come on the practice field."

Over three days of rookie minicamp last weekend, Delmas, a second-round pick from Western Michigan, outshone everyone. He made good on a promise to pick off Matthew Stafford and showed the kind of energy, enthusiasm and joy recently missing from the Allen Park practice field.

"From what I see in this young kid, he loves football," Cunningham said. "I don't know where he got it, but there's something about him that, he's not very big, and yet you see him on college tape just blowing guys up on tackles.

"Then he comes in here and threatens our first pick in the draft, and he says, 'I'm going to get it sooner or later.' He missed about three or four early, and then he took it away from him. A lot of my buddies have been texting me, saying, 'Boy, we were going to draft him.' I said, 'Well, you should have.' "

Did the dude have a bunch of track marks on his arms or a little of the magic powder left on his nose?

Spicy McHaggis
05-11-2009, 02:23 PM
But he came on the practice field like I believe you should come on the practice field.""

With his sleeves cut off and yellow sunglasses on?

htismaqe
05-11-2009, 02:24 PM
I wonder how long it will take for Detroit fans to get sick of Gunther reminiscing lovingly about his players in Kansas City?

:Lin:

Spicy McHaggis
05-11-2009, 02:28 PM
I wonder how long it will take for Detroit fans to get sick of Gunther reminiscing lovingly about his players in Kansas City?

:Lin:

I'm guessing the first time Matt Forte gashes them for 300 yards.

Dicky McElephant
05-11-2009, 02:34 PM
I'm guessing the first time Matt Forte gashes them for 300 yards.

God I hope so....I have him in my fantasy league.

Pants
05-11-2009, 02:35 PM
ROFL. I remember how he talked that way about Sammy Knight. Good times. Not.

Demonpenz
05-11-2009, 02:36 PM
Gunther knows how to text msg?

forshadowing how he will find out how he is fired this time

DaWolf
05-11-2009, 03:14 PM
Dumbther is full of crap and it's not going to change now that he's in Detroit...

the Talking Can
05-11-2009, 03:19 PM
Cunningham said. "When I look at Delmas now, I go, 'My God, it is like I got younger and there is Dale in front of me again.'


gun is the biggest fraud ever....if weren't for DT, he wouldn't even be in the league

what a god damn clown

shitgoose
05-11-2009, 03:22 PM
With his sleeves cut off and yellow sunglasses on?

ROFL

ChiefaRoo
05-11-2009, 03:29 PM
Gun "and then I walked onto the field and by god that rookie free agent reminded me of Derrick Thomas." "I thought I was transported back in time to 1992"

Reporter "WTF are you talking about, exactly?"

Gun "Well err, I saw the eye of the tiger in this kid and I just know"

Reporter "You're a joke aren't you?"

Gun "No, I don't believe I am. By the way did you know I sleep in my office and dream of taking away the offenses will?"

DaWolf
05-11-2009, 03:44 PM
Q: Do you give (QB) Elvis Grbac more decision-making in terms of the offense?

CUNNINGHAM: "I think the greatest thing about Elvis is he's growing his beard and he competes. He competed as hard as I've seen a quarterback compete."

CoMoChief
05-11-2009, 05:25 PM
Hey........numbnuts...........lets go.

ChiefaRoo
05-11-2009, 06:25 PM
Gun - ramble, ramble ramble, Kendrell Bell, ramble, ramble, ramble, Julian Battle is Dale Carter, ramble, ramble ramble.

Sure-Oz
05-11-2009, 06:30 PM
Gunther will take their heart and shit on their soul

chiefzilla1501
05-11-2009, 06:31 PM
I didn't bother to read it, but did Gun mention anything about how he wanted to take the fans' hearts. And then he was going to take away their souls? Wasn't that how his speech went a few years ago?

Mojo Jojo
05-11-2009, 06:32 PM
gun is the biggest fraud ever....if weren't for DT, he wouldn't even be in the league

what a god damn clown

Gun was coaching on Chargers, Raiders and Titans top 10 defensive teams without DT. After DT passed the KC D was still good while Gun was the HC.

milkman
05-11-2009, 07:12 PM
Gun was coaching on Chargers, Raiders and Titans top 10 defensive teams without DT. After DT passed the KC D was still good while Gun was the HC.

He was a position coach on the Chargers and Titans, and was demoted from DC after one season as the Raiders DC.

And the Chiefs defense started it's decline into the depths of hell after DT's death, with Cunther in charge.

CrazyPhuD
05-11-2009, 07:21 PM
Pretty sure Ryan Leaf made alot of rookie DBs look like Dale Carter in practice too....

Mojo Jojo
05-11-2009, 07:52 PM
He was a position coach on the Chargers and Titans, and was demoted from DC after one season as the Raiders DC.

And the Chiefs defense started it's decline into the depths of hell after DT's death, with ****her in charge.

I agree to a point. Gun has kicked back side with good defensive coaches, Marty and Jim Schwartz (now the Lions HC). You are putting too much into DT. He never did anything without Neil Smith, and he maybe the most one dimensional defensive player in pro football. In the most important game of his career DT was BENCHED because he couldn't perform. Thurman Thomas ran sweeps and screen passes at him the whole first half and DT couldn't make a stop. Did LT or Bobby Bell ever get pulled in a championship game for lack of performance? Shannon Sharpe owned DT's balls running TE screens and DT couldn't cover.

Gun was stuck with head coaches DV - who had Jim Bunting as a co-defensive coordinator in St. Louis. It took Mike Martz to bring in Lovie Smith. Also he had Herm who ran a defense he didn't believe in. I promise you with Schwartz as a HC Gun will kick ass again.

the Talking Can
05-11-2009, 07:55 PM
Gun was coaching on Chargers, Raiders and Titans top 10 defensive teams without DT. After DT passed the KC D was still good while Gun was the HC.

gunther as DC has been shit sandwich without DT...and his talent evaluations are legendarily bad....no one loves shit players like Gunther

total fraud
total clown

Coogs
05-11-2009, 08:02 PM
I agree to a point. Gun has kicked back side with good defensive coaches, Marty and Jim Schwartz (now the Lions HC). You are putting too much into DT. He never did anything without Neil Smith, and he maybe the most one dimensional defensive player in pro football. In the most important game of his career DT was BENCHED because he couldn't perform. Thurman Thomas ran sweeps and screen passes at him the whole first half and DT couldn't make a stop. Did LT or Bobby Bell ever get pulled in a championship game for lack of performance? Shannon Sharpe owned DT's balls running TE screens and DT couldn't cover.

Gun was stuck with head coaches DV - who had Jim Bunting as a co-defensive coordinator in St. Louis. It took Mike Martz to bring in Lovie Smith. Also he had Herm who ran a defense he didn't believe in. I promise you with Schwartz as a HC Gun will kick ass again.


Gun had 4 great plays against Buffalo more than a decade and a half ago. Blame all of his flaws on everyone else if you want, but the dude has flat messed up in every single scenario since those 4 plays.

Only thing he is good at is passing the blame on to others. But obviously you do not want to see that.

milkman
05-11-2009, 08:04 PM
I agree to a point. Gun has kicked back side with good defensive coaches, Marty and Jim Schwartz (now the Lions HC). You are putting too much into DT. He never did anything without Neil Smith, and he maybe the most one dimensional defensive player in pro football. In the most important game of his career DT was BENCHED because he couldn't perform. Thurman Thomas ran sweeps and screen passes at him the whole first half and DT couldn't make a stop. Did LT or Bobby Bell ever get pulled in a championship game for lack of performance? Shannon Sharpe owned DT's balls running TE screens and DT couldn't cover.

Gun was stuck with head coaches DV - who had Jim Bunting as a co-defensive coordinator in St. Louis. It took Mike Martz to bring in Lovie Smith. Also he had Herm who ran a defense he didn't believe in. I promise you with Schwartz as a HC Gun will kick ass again.

A good DC finds ways to put his players into position to succeed.
Bill Cowher made DT one of the most feared defenders in the NFL.

Cunther could never find a way to minimize DT's weaknesses and maximize his strengths, and I've said many times before, Cunther managed to contain DT better than any opposing OC ever did.

What you are syaing is that Cunther needs a good defensive coach to hold his hand.

You are absolutely right.

Now what I want to know is why the hell anyone would want a DC who can't get the job done with out a good defensive HC holding his hand?

DeezNutz
05-11-2009, 08:06 PM
Gunther will take their heart and shit on their soul

LMAO

Halfcan
05-11-2009, 08:19 PM
blah blah blah

Fruit Ninja
05-11-2009, 09:08 PM
Gunther will take their heart and shit on their soul

I dont give a fuck what anyone on that team ever does agian, but there is no way they will replicated the 0-16 season. While they may suck, we werent to far behind.

I am going to laugh when their defense is better then ours. lol

htismaqe
05-11-2009, 09:11 PM
I dont give a **** what anyone on that team ever does agian, but there is no way they will replicated the 0-16 season. While they may suck, we werent to far behind.

I am going to laugh when their defense is better then ours. lol

What does their defense being better than ours have to do with anything? Gunther should be measured by whether or not he improves the Lions, not by anything we do after he's gone.

Furthermore, Gunther could do absolutely nothing and the Lions could improve - they were dead last in both points and yards.

Gunther is a loser.

Fruit Ninja
05-11-2009, 09:16 PM
What does their defense being better than ours have to do with anything? Gunther should be measured by whether or not he improves the Lions, not by anything we do after he's gone.

Furthermore, Gunther could do absolutely nothing and the Lions could improve - they were dead last in both points and yards.

Gunther is a loser.

Well, if its better then ours, then that means he improves their defense. They were 0-16 for fuck sake. So, its not going to be difficult this year for him to improve their defense.

Mojo Jojo
05-11-2009, 09:30 PM
A good DC finds ways to put his players into position to succeed.
Bill Cowher made DT one of the most feared defenders in the NFL.

****her could never find a way to minimize DT's weaknesses and maximize his strengths, and I've said many times before, ****her managed to contain DT better than any opposing OC ever did.

What you are syaing is that ****her needs a good defensive coach to hold his hand.

You are absolutely right.

Now what I want to know is why the hell anyone would want a DC who can't get the job done with out a good defensive HC holding his hand?

Cowher was only DT's DC for his first two years. DT spent more years and his productive years under Dave Adolph. So, by your logic Dave Adolph made DT.

Raised On Riots
05-11-2009, 09:34 PM
He was a position coach on the Chargers and Titans, and was demoted from DC after one season as the Raiders DC.

And the Chiefs defense started it's decline into the depths of hell after DT's death, with Cunther in charge.

Crux achieved.

Cowher + Marty = Results.

Gun + Marty = Gun collecting a check on someone else's brain power.

Mojo Jojo
05-11-2009, 09:40 PM
A good DC finds ways to put his players into position to succeed.
Bill Cowher made DT one of the most feared defenders in the NFL.

****her could never find a way to minimize DT's weaknesses and maximize his strengths, and I've said many times before, ****her managed to contain DT better than any opposing OC ever did.

What you are syaing is that ****her needs a good defensive coach to hold his hand.

You are absolutely right.

Now what I want to know is why the hell anyone would want a DC who can't get the job done with out a good defensive HC holding his hand?

Great players don't need coordinators to find success...they step up. Gun changed his defense because DT wanted to be a DE not a LB and we ended up with the "Falcon". DT was too lazy to improve his game against the run or pass coverage. Yes he was a great pass rusher, but THAT WAS IT.

Do you remember the playoff game against the Steelers when DT left in the 1st qtr. with the flu, and yet Chris Martin played 3 plus quarters on a torn ACL?

Chiefnj2
05-12-2009, 11:20 AM
Larry Foote on WDFN: Lions' OTAs are 'a lot different from Pittsburgh'
by James Schmehl | MLive.com
Friday May 08, 2009, 12:05 PM

Larry Foote has been with the Detroit Lions for less than a week, but the 28-year-old middle linebacker already knows what he can expect from new defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham.

"There are a lot of curse words going on," Foote told Matt Shepard on WDFN-AM Detroit. "I think I heard more f-bombs in one day than I have in five years."

Foote, who agreed to a one-year contract Tuesday night, practiced with the Lions on Thursday after passing his physical Wednesday morning.

Foote said it's too early to evaluate Cunningham and linebackers coach Matt Burke, but the two-time Super Bowl-winning linebacker had no problem assessing his first day with Detroit.

"It's a lot different from Pittsburgh," Foote said. "I don't know if it was the new coaches or the new staff, but it was military style yesterday. Pittsburgh is a little bit more laid back.

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 11:26 AM
Larry Foote on WDFN: Lions' OTAs are 'a lot different from Pittsburgh'
by James Schmehl | MLive.com
Friday May 08, 2009, 12:05 PM

Larry Foote has been with the Detroit Lions for less than a week, but the 28-year-old middle linebacker already knows what he can expect from new defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham.

"There are a lot of curse words going on," Foote told Matt Shepard on WDFN-AM Detroit. "I think I heard more f-bombs in one day than I have in five years."

Foote, who agreed to a one-year contract Tuesday night, practiced with the Lions on Thursday after passing his physical Wednesday morning.

Foote said it's too early to evaluate Cunningham and linebackers coach Matt Burke, but the two-time Super Bowl-winning linebacker had no problem assessing his first day with Detroit.

"It's a lot different from Pittsburgh," Foote said. "I don't know if it was the new coaches or the new staff, but it was military style yesterday. Pittsburgh is a little bit more laid back.

Wait 'till you meet the new D-Line Coach!

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 12:00 PM
Well, if its better then ours, then that means he improves their defense. They were 0-16 for **** sake. So, its not going to be difficult this year for him to improve their defense.

If it's better than ours, it doesn't mean anything. He's can't be in both places simultaneously, so comparing the two is irrelevant. The only comparisons that matter are each team's defenses in comparison to how they did last year.

Furthermore, if Detroit's defense is better than ANYBODY'S then their defense improved. They were DEAD LAST in both points AND yards. It would be damn near statistically impossible for them to do that again, no matter who is the DC. They're going to improve, with or without Gunther.

What will be telling is how much WE improve. Because nobody will want to blame Gunther - he loves KC so much he gets a free pass.

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 12:04 PM
If it's better than ours, it doesn't mean anything. He's can't be in both places simultaneously, so comparing the two is irrelevant. The only comparisons that matter are each team's defenses in comparison to how they did last year.

Furthermore, if Detroit's defense is better than ANYBODY'S then their defense improved. They were DEAD LAST in both points AND yards. It would be damn near statistically impossible for them to do that again, no matter who is the DC. They're going to improve, with or without Gunther.

What will be telling is how much WE improve. Because nobody will want to blame Gunther - he loves KC so much he gets a free pass.

Say Wha? I can't see anyone outside of the Red Coater's that would give him a "free pass". And even THAT might be a generous assessment.

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 12:08 PM
Say Wha? I can't see anyone outside of the Red Coater's that would give him a "fee pass". And even THAT might be a generous assessment.

There's alot of people around here that just love Gunther. They pretty much haven't said anything for the last couple of years because they know they can't defend him anymore.

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 12:10 PM
There's alot of people around here that just love Gunther. They pretty much haven't said anything for the last couple of years because they know they can't defend him anymore.

Well after two years, I would hope the the "love" has moved on. The guy was a fraud, a charlatan, and a check-collector.
History has proven this to be oh-so true.
True.

Brock
05-12-2009, 12:19 PM
I promise you with Schwartz as a HC Gun will kick ass again.

That will be the first time in over a decade that Gunther has done anything of note, if it happens at all. Keep on pining for the past, though.

Count Alex's Losses
05-12-2009, 12:21 PM
Where will the Lions finish on defense this year? 27th? 26th?

the Talking Can
05-12-2009, 12:22 PM
There's alot of people around here that just love Gunther. They pretty much haven't said anything for the last couple of years because they know they can't defend him anymore.

when we made the tragic mistake of re-hiring that clown, there were long arguments from people about how great he was...I know, I was on the other side of the argument...it obvious he was going to be a disaster, he's just a Carl cronie with no self-respect...

you don't hear much from those people anymore...

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 12:24 PM
Originally Posted by Mojo Jojo http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5757535#post5757535)
I promise you with Schwartz as a HC Gun will kick ass again.


Promise me money instead, please.

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 12:26 PM
Where will the Lions finish on defense this year? 27th? 26th?

It was all because of Gunther!

Buehler445
05-12-2009, 12:27 PM
I agree to a point. Gun has kicked back side with good defensive coaches, Marty and Jim Schwartz (now the Lions HC). You are putting too much into DT. He never did anything without Neil Smith, and he maybe the most one dimensional defensive player in pro football. In the most important game of his career DT was BENCHED because he couldn't perform. Thurman Thomas ran sweeps and screen passes at him the whole first half and DT couldn't make a stop. Did LT or Bobby Bell ever get pulled in a championship game for lack of performance? Shannon Sharpe owned DT's balls running TE screens and DT couldn't cover.

Gun was stuck with head coaches DV - who had Jim Bunting as a co-defensive coordinator in St. Louis. It took Mike Martz to bring in Lovie Smith. Also he had Herm who ran a defense he didn't believe in. I promise you with Schwartz as a HC Gun will kick ass again.

Wait. What?

Are you seriously defending Gun? Like seriously, legitimately defending him as a DC?
Posted via Mobile Device

Coogs
05-12-2009, 12:33 PM
It was all because of Gunther!


Damn straight! Gun has an eye for talent. All of his buddies are texting him and telling him so.

The Bad Guy
05-12-2009, 12:34 PM
Great players don't need coordinators to find success...they step up. Gun changed his defense because DT wanted to be a DE not a LB and we ended up with the "Falcon". DT was too lazy to improve his game against the run or pass coverage. Yes he was a great pass rusher, but THAT WAS IT.

Do you remember the playoff game against the Steelers when DT left in the 1st qtr. with the flu, and yet Chris Martin played 3 plus quarters on a torn ACL?

Knocking DT, but praising Gun.

Hilarious.

Gunther Cunningham blows as a defensive coordinator unless you give him 2 stud pass rushers, 1 huge nose tackle, and a lock down secondary.

People who defend this guy should never watch football again.

T-post Tom
05-12-2009, 12:34 PM
"It's a lot different from Pittsburgh," Foote said.

Pittsburgh: reigning SB champs. That's all we need to know.

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 12:35 PM
It was all because of Gunther!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLC73DB7jE8 :((weepies)

CoMoChief
05-12-2009, 12:42 PM
Knocking DT, but praising Gun.

Hilarious.

Gunther Cunningham blows as a defensive coordinator unless you give him 2 stud pass rushers, 1 huge nose tackle, and a lock down secondary.

People who defend this guy should never watch football again.

Have you ever seen a coach (def coord) take a bunch of slugs and nobodys and turn them into a defensive force? I havent.

Good defenses have great defensive players, they draft well, they use FA wisely to plug up holes.

you have to have great players if you want your team to have great defense. Plain n simple.

Coogs
05-12-2009, 12:44 PM
Have you ever seen a coach (def coord) take a bunch of slugs and nobodys and turn them into a defensive force? I havent.

Good defenses have great defensive players, they draft well, they use FA wisely to plug up holes.

you have to have great players if you want your team to have great defense. Plain n simple.

:spock:

CoMoChief
05-12-2009, 12:50 PM
:spock:

What? People always complain and bitch about how......Marty held Gun's hand.......Gun had 7 pro bowlers on defense thats why he was good......blah blah blah.

The fact is good defense around the league have good defensive players. We had one and traded him away because our FO is ****ing retarded. I wanna believe that with Flowers, DJ, Dorsey, Jackson and Magee that we are going in a good direction, but I dont see improvement for a while. long while.

can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

orange
05-12-2009, 12:54 PM
"It's a lot different from Pittsburgh," Foote said. Pittsburgh: reigning SB champs. That's all we need to know.


Hahaha. I love the selective edit. The full quote:

"It's a lot different from Pittsburgh," Foote said. "I don't know if it was the new coaches or the new staff, but it was military style yesterday. Pittsburgh is a little bit more laid back."

Pittsburgh: reigning SB champs - laid back.
Gunther - military style.

KC fans since Haley was hired - we need more toughness from our coaches, no more of this molly-coddling.

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 12:54 PM
Have you ever seen a coach (def coord) take a bunch of slugs and nobodys and turn them into a defensive force? I havent.

Good defenses have great defensive players, they draft well, they use FA wisely to plug up holes.

you have to have great players if you want your team to have great defense. Plain n simple.

I actually have seen one coach repeatedly take a bunch of talent and turn them into slugs and nobodies.

Gunther sucks. Plain and simple.

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 12:59 PM
Hahaha. I love the selective edit. The full quote:

"It's a lot different from Pittsburgh," Foote said. "I don't know if it was the new coaches or the new staff, but it was military style yesterday. Pittsburgh is a little bit more laid back."

Pittsburgh: reigning SB champs - laid back.
Gunther - military style.

KC fans since Haley was hired - we need more toughness from our coaches, no more of this molly-coddling.

Orange, you're turning in to EXACTLY the kind of Douchey Donko Fan I love.

Is it time for football yet?:LOL:

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 01:01 PM
Hahaha. I love the selective edit. The full quote:

"It's a lot different from Pittsburgh," Foote said. "I don't know if it was the new coaches or the new staff, but it was military style yesterday. Pittsburgh is a little bit more laid back."

Pittsburgh: reigning SB champs - laid back.
Gunther - military style.

KC fans since Haley was hired - we need more toughness from our coaches, no more of this molly-coddling.

Denver fans since McDaniels was hired - what the fuck did he just do?!?!?

:D

Coogs
05-12-2009, 01:01 PM
What? People always complain and bitch about how......Marty held Gun's hand.......Gun had 7 pro bowlers on defense thats why he was good......blah blah blah.

The fact is good defense around the league have good defensive players. We had one and traded him away because our FO is ****ing retarded. I wanna believe that with Flowers, DJ, Dorsey, Jackson and Magee that we are going in a good direction, but I dont see improvement for a while. long while.

can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

Gun was here for 5 years. 2004-2008. The chicken shit you speak of was the players he wanted. 5 years... we advanced from the 32nd overall defense to the 31st overall defense. Yes, I read the excuses every single season.

2004... It was the system, resign the players
2005... It was the players, get me new players
2006... It was DV and my assistant coaches, get me new assistants
2007... It the players again, get me new players
2008... It was Herm and the system, get me a new team

All of these of course come with tears when paired with the new HC. DV, Herm, and now Schwartz.

Dude is a loser to the max. And yes, I loved him when he kept the Bills out of the endzone umpteen years ago.

Chiefnj2
05-12-2009, 01:02 PM
Have you ever seen a coach (def coord) take a bunch of slugs and nobodys and turn them into a defensive force? I havent.

Good defenses have great defensive players, they draft well, they use FA wisely to plug up holes.

you have to have great players if you want your team to have great defense. Plain n simple.

Do we have to go through Gunther's list of dream players again? DV gave Gunther control over the defense -scheme and personnel. Carl went out and got Gunther the players he wanted. Gun still couldn't field a decent defense.

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 01:02 PM
Denver fans since McDaniels was hired - what the fuck did he just do?!?!?

:D

Better watch out; the 4-back set is COMING TO DESTROY US ALL!!!!ROFL

orange
05-12-2009, 01:05 PM
Orange, you're turning in to EXACTLY the kind of Douchey Donko Fan I love.

Is it time for football yet?:LOL:

You?! I'm still waiting for you to get back to me on Cassel/Thigpen:



Matt Cassel out-Thigpenned Thigpen Thursday night. In New England, he's known as "fill-in" or "stop-gap."

In KC Thigpen is being touted as "saviour" or "cornerstone."

Chiefs fans LOVE their feel-good stories!

p.s. Sorry, Boomer. Didn't mean to leave you out.

Oh....My....God; no you didn't. Yes you did.

Matt's been playing for Brady HOW MANY GAMES NOW?

Matt is surrounded by an Offensive Line that won THREE WHAT?

Matt has a Defense! (That always helps)

Anybody else feel free to jump in; I gotta' move on to other stuff.

:D

orange
05-12-2009, 01:12 PM
Gun was here for 5 years. 2004-2008. The chicken shit you speak of was the players he wanted. 5 years... we advanced from the 32nd overall defense to the 31st overall defense. Yes, I read the excuses every single season.

2004... It was the system, resign the players
2005... It was the players, get me new players
2006... It was DV and my assistant coaches, get me new assistants
2007... It the players again, get me new players
2008... It was Herm and the system, get me a new team


You left out the fact that the defense showed steady improvement from 2004-2007. 2008 crashed due to the Peterson/Edwards SaveYourAsses veteran purge - including trading away your best player as mentioned above (not good) and then not even trying to replace him (very dumb). If you're saying it was Gun's decision to rape his defensive line and not draft/acquire at least another DE I'm going to have to disagree.

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 01:13 PM
You?! I'm still waiting for you to get back to me on Cassel/Thigpen:





:D

I was a Thigpen supporter when I first came here, yes. By the end of the season, I wasn't.
Kid had his shot/color me unimpressed.
Donko bitch. :D

Count Alex's Losses
05-12-2009, 01:14 PM
Gunther was in love with Kendrell Bell. That destroyed any credibility he had left. Forever.

He also thought he could be the coordinator AND coach linebackers. Clearly he was wrong.

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 01:16 PM
Do we have to go through Gunther's list of dream players again? DV gave Gunther control over the defense -scheme and personnel. Carl went out and got Gunther the players he wanted. Gun still couldn't field a decent defense.

Above all DC duties, Gunther is supposed to be a LB GURU. We got one potential stud in DJ that hasn't developed much, if at all, under Gunther. And the rest of the guys he's brought in were servicable AT BEST.

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 01:16 PM
Above all DC duties, Gunther is supposed to be a LB GURU. We got one potential stud in DJ that hasn't developed much, if at all, under Gunther. And the rest of the guys he's brought in were servicable AT BEST.

Cosign.

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 01:19 PM
You left out the fact that the defense showed steady improvement from 2004-2007. 2008 crashed due to the Peterson/Edwards SaveYourAsses veteran purge - including trading away your best player as mentioned above (not good) and then not even trying to replace him (very dumb). If you're saying it was Gun's decision to rape his defensive line and not draft/acquire at least another DE I'm going to have to disagree.

Everyone look.

The resident Bronco fan is defending Gunther. Just like the resident Bronco fan wanted us to take an OT or LB with the #3 pick.

Coogs
05-12-2009, 01:24 PM
Everyone look.

The resident Bronco fan is defending Gunther. Just like the resident Bronco fan wanted us to take an OT or LB with the #3 pick.


This is just an orange vs Coogs thing. Dude rips every post I make basically. I've quit responding to him.

orange
05-12-2009, 01:25 PM
Everyone look.

The resident Bronco fan is defending Gunther. Just like the resident Bronco fan wanted us to take an OT or LB with the #3 pick.


Gunther wasn't that bad. This board has a habit of demonizing players/coaches who have fallen out of favor, beyond all reason. It's not a big deal that you don't like Gunther (or Sims, or Hicks, or Mitchell, or ...), but it leads to absurd conclusions like believing that getting rid of Gunther is going to make this defense better on day 1.

While you're bitching about Gunther and his success/lack thereof, just remember that his track record is far better than Pendergast's.

orange
05-12-2009, 01:26 PM
Everyone look.

The resident Bronco fan is defending Gunther. Just like the resident Bronco fan wanted us to take an OT or LB with the #3 pick.

So, the KC defense DIDN'T improve from 2004-2007?

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 01:30 PM
Gunther wasn't that bad. This board has a habit of demonizing players/coaches who have fallen out of favor, beyond all reason. It's not a big deal that you don't like Gunther (or Sims, or Hicks, or Mitchell, or ...), but it leads to absurd conclusions like believing that getting rid of Gunther is going to make this defense better on day 1.

While you're bitching about Gunther and his success/lack thereof, just remember that his track record is far better than Pendergast's.

This board, and me in particular, has a habit of demonizing coaches and players who DESERVE it, like Gunther. It's funny you mention Sims, Hicks, and Mitchell. Outside of the Mecca types who NEVER liked the guy, you won't read too many people here bashing him. Yet, they're bashing Hicks and Sims. Why?

BECAUSE THEY SUCK.

Furthermore, NOBODY believes this defense is going to be better Day 1 solely because Gunther is gone. You haven't read that anywhere here - you made it up. Certainly, most of us are concerned with Pendergast's track record. But equivocating isn't relevant. It doesn't matter how good the defense is next year, or how bad Pendergast is.

Gunther STILL SUCKS.

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 01:31 PM
So, the KC defense DIDN'T improve from 2004-2007?

Did you celebrate when the price of gas went from 3.03 to 2.97?

Better than bad does not equal good.

orange
05-12-2009, 01:34 PM
Did you celebrate when the price of gas went from 3.03 to 2.97?

Better than bad does not equal good.

I believe in 2007 the Chiefs were in or near the top 10.

I can't think of a handy search phrase to find out quickly.

CoMoChief
05-12-2009, 01:37 PM
Gun was here for 5 years. 2004-2008. The chicken shit you speak of was the players he wanted. 5 years... we advanced from the 32nd overall defense to the 31st overall defense. Yes, I read the excuses every single season.

2004... It was the system, resign the players
2005... It was the players, get me new players
2006... It was DV and my assistant coaches, get me new assistants
2007... It the players again, get me new players
2008... It was Herm and the system, get me a new team

All of these of course come with tears when paired with the new HC. DV, Herm, and now Schwartz.

Dude is a loser to the max. And yes, I loved him when he kept the Bills out of the endzone umpteen years ago.


I'll admit he bombed with his FA wish list. Its bad when Sammy Knight is your best signing. But this defense ever since DV arrived had no cornerstone to build around whatsoever. Tried that with the Sims pick and we all knew what happened after that. That pick that coaching staff, that draft alone, set the Chiefs back 10 years on defense.

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 01:38 PM
Who?

How about DJ for starters? Or Glenn Dorsey?

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 01:38 PM
Did you celebrate when the price of gas went from 3.03 to 2.97?

Better than bad does not equal good.

ROFL

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 01:40 PM
I believe in 2007 the Chiefs were in or near the top 10.

I can't think of a handy search phrase to find out quickly.

They were 14th in points and 13th in yards.

By the way, they improved in total yards between 2004 and 2007, but dropped 3 spots in points (which actually matters) between 2006 and 2007.

orange
05-12-2009, 01:40 PM
This board, and me in particular, has a habit of demonizing coaches and players who DESERVE it, like Gunther. It's funny you mention Sims, Hicks, and Mitchell. Outside of the Mecca types who NEVER liked the guy, you won't read too many people here bashing him. Yet, they're bashing Hicks and Sims. Why?

BECAUSE THEY SUCK.

Furthermore, NOBODY believes this defense is going to be better Day 1 solely because Gunther is gone. You haven't read that anywhere here - you made it up. Certainly, most of us are concerned with Pendergast's track record. But equivocating isn't relevant. It doesn't matter how good the defense is next year, or how bad Pendergast is.

Gunther STILL SUCKS.

Ok, how about a realtime example. Answer this simply - is Krumrie going to ruin Jackson and Magee (like he's apparently ruined Dorsey)?

(... and about the line I highlighted above - I'm not sure who you mean, there. Mitchell maybe?)

orange
05-12-2009, 01:41 PM
They were 14th in points and 13th in yards.

By the way, they improved in total yards between 2004 and 2007, but dropped 3 spots in points (which actually matters) between 2006 and 2007.

Thanks. That DOES show significant improvement from Robinson's defense, doesn't it?

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 01:42 PM
Yards per rush, perhaps the most meaningful defensive stat when it comes to actually winning games.

2004 - 4.6
2005 - 4.1
2006 - 4.2
2007 - 4.3

Yeah, that's some serious improvement there.

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 01:43 PM
Ok, how about a realtime example. Answer this simply - is Krumrie going to ruin Jackson and Magee (like he's apparently ruined Dorsey)?

(... and about the line I highlighted above - I'm not sure who you mean, there. Mitchell maybe?)

Do I think Krumrie is going to ruin Jackson and Magee? How the hell should I know? Why does it matter? We're talking about Gunther.

Mitchell, yes. My bad.

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 01:44 PM
Thanks. That DOES show significant improvement from Robinson's defense, doesn't it?

Again, you're comparing him to a complete moron.

That's like comparing Bret Michaels to Flavor Flav and saying "see, Bret Michaels is a chaste, moral individual".

orange
05-12-2009, 01:44 PM
Do I think Krumrie is going to ruin Jackson and Magee? How the hell should I know? Why does it matter? We're talking about Gunther.


Because Krumrie is the resident fallguy. I think you know that.

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 01:45 PM
Because Krumrie is the resident fallguy. I think you know that.

Not for me he isn't. He's a position coach. It wasn't HIS defense, it was Gunther's. Krumrie may have had a hand in Dorsey not playing well, but when the ENTIRE defense underperforms, that's at the feet of the DC.

Brock
05-12-2009, 01:46 PM
Whatever people think of Krumrie, at least he doesn't make it worse by flapping his jaws about "taking souls" or whatever corny, stupid shit flew out of Gunther's mouth on a daily basis.

Coogs
05-12-2009, 01:50 PM
You can bend statistics to read however you want them to read. At almost every single point during Gun's 5 year tenure that just ended, when we needed the defense to make a stand... they were no where to be found. Piss poor tackling game in-and-game out. Career day performances by opponents.

Sure, the defense was OK once in a while. But damn near never when it mattered the most.

orange
05-12-2009, 01:54 PM
Whatever people think of Krumrie, at least he doesn't make it worse by flapping his jaws about "taking souls" or whatever corny, stupid shit flew out of Gunther's mouth on a daily basis.

I agree that a big chunk of Gunther's problem is his mouth. He's always talking up his players and his team, whatever the reality may be.

The thing is, players actually kind of like that schtick - Herm Edwards' too. The reporters love it because they can always count on something printable coming from these type of guys.

It doesn't translate too well in the real world, though, especially when you're not winning.

Haley is going to grate on people quite a bit after the first year, I think, unless and until he gets it turned around some time in year two.

CoMoChief
05-12-2009, 01:59 PM
How about DJ for starters? Or Glenn Dorsey?

Dorsey? really after 1 (rookie) season?

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 02:00 PM
You can bend statistics to read however you want them to read. At almost every single point during Gun's 5 year tenure that just ended, when we needed the defense to make a stand... they were no where to be found. Piss poor tackling game in-and-game out. Career day performances by opponents.

Sure, the defense was OK once in a while. But damn near never when it mattered the most.

There ya' go; right there. If you can't drill the basic fundamentals of football in to your position coaches who in turn should be drilling it in to the players?

FAIL.

Flowers tried to do that "shoulder and helmet"-stop shit to Atlanta's RB. The result?

FAIL.

CoMoChief
05-12-2009, 02:01 PM
Whatever people think of Krumrie, at least he doesn't make it worse by flapping his jaws about "taking souls" or whatever corny, stupid shit flew out of Gunther's mouth on a daily basis.

you'd be surprise how many other football coaches talk about that kind of shit. Hell Marty was a king at it.

CoMoChief
05-12-2009, 02:03 PM
There ya' go; right there. If you can't drill the basic fundamentals of football in to your position coaches who in turn should be drilling it in to the players?

FAIL.

Flowers tried to do that "shoulder and helmet"-stop shit to Atlanta's RB. The result?

FAIL.

They're in the NFL, my assumption would be one already should know how to tackle. Fundamentals in tackling never change. If you can't tackle by now, probably more so that not, you're never gonna be able to tackle well.

Coogs
05-12-2009, 02:03 PM
or whatever corny, stupid shit flew out of Gunther's mouth

Like...

he came on the practice field like I believe you should come on the practice field.

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 02:11 PM
They're in the NFL, my assumption would be one already should know how to tackle. Fundamentals in tackling never change. If you can't tackle by now, probably more so that not, you're never gonna be able to tackle well.

You'd think, but in college the NFL caliber players generally run right over everyone else.

Then they bring that shit to the NFL, realize they're not quite the "shizznit" they thought they were come game time, and no one seems to give two fucks about correcting it.
As it related to the 2008 Chiefs anyway.

orange
05-12-2009, 02:11 PM
Outside of the Mecca types who NEVER liked the guy, you won't read too many people here bashing (Mitchell). Yet, they're bashing Hicks and Sims. Why?

Hicks is a classic example of the demonizing I'm getting at. He was a serviceable player who busted his butt every game while he was here, and from all reports was as hard a worker and student of the game as you could want. He didn't have a world of talent. His one 14 sack year was a fluke, really, but Chiefs fans can't forgive him for not duplicating that. He really doesn't deserve the abuse that's heaped on him. It's not his fault the Chiefs didn't have someone better to push him to the bench.

The same scenario is playing itself out with DJ. The guy has been a starter virtually every game since he was drafted, yet somehow that's not enough. If you're not a Hall-of-Famer, you don't deserve to be drafted at 15(?), I guess.


p.s. nothing in this post should be construed as a defense of Ryan Sims.

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 02:15 PM
Hicks is a classic example of the demonizing I'm getting at. He was a serviceable player who busted his butt every game while he was here, and from all reports was as hard a worker and student of the game as you could want. He didn't have a world of talent. His one 14 sack year was a fluke, really, but Chiefs fans can't forgive him for not duplicating that. He really doesn't deserve the abuse that's heaped on him. It's not his fault the Chiefs didn't have someone better to push him to the bench.

The same scenario is playing itself out with DJ. The guy has been a starter virtually every game since he was drafted, yet somehow that's not enough. If you're not a Hall-of-Famer, you don't deserve to be drafted at 15(?), I guess.

And just how long will you continue to ball-wash our failed players and personnel?
By ALL MEANS; please continue! ROFL

HemiEd
05-12-2009, 02:22 PM
So - I wonder if Delmas will reach the greatness of Kendrell Bell? :rolleyes:

Damn, first post! :clap:

Mojo Jojo
05-12-2009, 02:36 PM
Above all DC duties, Gunther is supposed to be a LB GURU. We got one potential stud in DJ that hasn't developed much, if at all, under Gunther. And the rest of the guys he's brought in were servicable AT BEST.

If you are going to blame Gun for DJ not developing even you need to credit Gun for Donnie Edwards. Donnie was a 4th round pick and a DE in college and most "experts" called it a reach...yet he turned into a Pro Bowl LB. Remember DJ was projected a top ten pick and dropped to 15...maybe he wasn't as good as people thought going into the draft, and maybe Donnie Edwards was underrated. Either way if you blame Gun for DJ you must credit him for Donnie.

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 02:44 PM
If you are going to blame Gun for DJ not developing even you need to credit Gun for Donnie Edwards. Donnie was a 4th round pick and a DE in college and most "experts" called it a reach...yet he turned into a Pro Bowl LB. Remember DJ was projected a top ten pick and dropped to 15...maybe he wasn't as good as people thought going into the draft, and maybe Donnie Edwards was underrated. Either way if you blame Gun for DJ you must credit him for Donnie.

Yay.

rad
05-12-2009, 02:50 PM
.....
Furthermore, NOBODY believes this defense is going to be better Day 1 solely because Gunther is gone. You haven't read that anywhere here - you made it up. Certainly, most of us are concerned with Pendergast's track record. But equivocating isn't relevant. It doesn't matter how good the defense is next year, or how bad Pendergast is.

Gunther STILL SUCKS.

I believe our defense will better from day 1 soley because Gunther is not here.



There ya go.

Coogs
05-12-2009, 02:55 PM
If you are going to blame Gun for DJ not developing even you need to credit Gun for Donnie Edwards. Donnie was a 4th round pick and a DE in college and most "experts" called it a reach...yet he turned into a Pro Bowl LB. Remember DJ was projected a top ten pick and dropped to 15...maybe he wasn't as good as people thought going into the draft, and maybe Donnie Edwards was underrated. Either way if you blame Gun for DJ you must credit him for Donnie.

In some way, shape, or form, Gun has basically been involved with the Chiefs defense since 1994. There should be some DE and JA success stories to tell over a 15 year span. There should be a lot of success stories to tell over a 15year period. But the book really does not have that many chapters.

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 03:03 PM
I believe our defense will better from day 1 soley because Gunther is not here.



There ya go.

LMAO

Mojo Jojo
05-12-2009, 03:07 PM
Isn't funny on this board that posters hate Gun yet worship Al Saunders? What has Al Saunders done without Don Coryell or Dick Vermeil holding his hand? Nothing. He has been fired a few times and can't seem to become a Head Coach. Maybe people on this board aren't good judges of coaching.

CoMoChief
05-12-2009, 03:12 PM
Isn't funny on this board that posters hate Gun yet worship Al Saunders? What has Al Saunders done without Don Coryell or Dick Vermeil holding his hand? Nothing. He has been fired a few times and can't seem to become a Head Coach. Maybe people on this board aren't good judges of coaching.

There were a lot of things that went into why DV/AS offenses were good.

We had a GREAT Oline with a couple great threats in TG and Priest Holmes, with serviceable WR's

Had a HC that fully supported his OC

Our oline started how many games all together. That kinda consistency you can't put a price tag on.

More importantly, you had a QB that knew the offense like the back of his hand and was pretty accurate.

Mojo Jojo
05-12-2009, 03:16 PM
There were a lot of things that went into why DV/AS offenses were good.

We had a GREAT Oline with a couple great threats in TG and Priest Holmes, with serviceable WR's

Had a HC that fully supported his OC

Our oline started how many games all together. That kinda consistency you can't put a price tag on.

More importantly, you had a QB that knew the offense like the back of his hand and was pretty accurate.

Yes and when Gun was in that situation he was a "great" DC. Head Coach and Coordinator on the same page...good players etc.

Skip Towne
05-12-2009, 03:22 PM
Having Gunther as my LB coach is like having Picasso paint my kitchen

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 03:24 PM
If you are going to blame Gun for DJ not developing even you need to credit Gun for Donnie Edwards. Donnie was a 4th round pick and a DE in college and most "experts" called it a reach...yet he turned into a Pro Bowl LB. Remember DJ was projected a top ten pick and dropped to 15...maybe he wasn't as good as people thought going into the draft, and maybe Donnie Edwards was underrated. Either way if you blame Gun for DJ you must credit him for Donnie.

Donnie Edwards turned into a Pro Bowl LB in SAN DIEGO. In a 3-4 defense to boot. How does Gunther get credit for a guy he barely coached?

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 03:26 PM
Dorsey? really after 1 (rookie) season?

Did he play like a Top 5 pick? Or better yet, did Gunther do ANYTHING for him? We heard immediately after the season that Dorsey was struggling with TWO-GAP assignments, when everybody in the WORLD knows he was a 1-gap player.

Gunther is a moron.

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 03:28 PM
Hicks is a classic example of the demonizing I'm getting at. He was a serviceable player who busted his butt every game while he was here, and from all reports was as hard a worker and student of the game as you could want. He didn't have a world of talent. His one 14 sack year was a fluke, really, but Chiefs fans can't forgive him for not duplicating that. He really doesn't deserve the abuse that's heaped on him. It's not his fault the Chiefs didn't have someone better to push him to the bench.

WRONG.

Chiefs fans can't forgive him for biting on EVERY bootleg he ever saw and then having the stones to say stupid shit like he's a leader on a 1-4 team because he knows how to lose.

You don't know what you're talking about friend.

The same scenario is playing itself out with DJ. The guy has been a starter virtually every game since he was drafted, yet somehow that's not enough. If you're not a Hall-of-Famer, you don't deserve to be drafted at 15(?), I guess.

Who is DEMONIZING DJ? DJ has a ton of talent, he flashes it nearly every game. He hasn't built any consistency because his COACHING SUCKED.

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 03:30 PM
Isn't funny on this board that posters hate Gun yet worship Al Saunders? What has Al Saunders done without Don Coryell or Dick Vermeil holding his hand? Nothing. He has been fired a few times and can't seem to become a Head Coach. Maybe people on this board aren't good judges of coaching.

Who here loves Al Saunders? You'll be hard-pressed to find them.

Mojo Jojo
05-12-2009, 04:19 PM
Donnie Edwards turned into a Pro Bowl LB in SAN DIEGO. In a 3-4 defense to boot. How does Gunther get credit for a guy he barely coached?

"barley coached"? Donnie and Gun were together 5 years before Gun was fired. I'm sure most people who know anything about football would agree that Donnie belonged in the Pro Bowl 2 of those 5 years, so yes Gun did have something to do with his progress and success.

Mojo Jojo
05-12-2009, 04:23 PM
WRONG.

Chiefs fans can't forgive him for biting on EVERY bootleg he ever saw and then having the stones to say stupid shit like he's a leader on a 1-4 team because he knows how to lose.

You don't know what you're talking about friend.



Who is DEMONIZING DJ? DJ has a ton of talent, he flashes it nearly every game. He hasn't built any consistency because his COACHING SUCKED.

If he had all that talent he wouldn't have dropped like a rock in the draft. If it wasn't for Aaron Rogers, DJ would have been the biggest story on not being drafted as projected. FYI...Aaron Rogers is out performing DJ.

CoMoChief
05-12-2009, 04:24 PM
Did he play like a Top 5 pick? Or better yet, did Gunther do ANYTHING for him? We heard immediately after the season that Dorsey was struggling with TWO-GAP assignments, when everybody in the WORLD knows he was a 1-gap player.

Gunther is a moron.

I can't remember the last time a rookie DT tore it up in the NFL his first yr.

And.....with all due respect you don't know who was making that decision, Herm, Krum, or Gun.

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 04:30 PM
"barley coached"? Donnie and Gun were together 5 years before Gun was fired. I'm sure most people who know anything about football would agree that Donnie belonged in the Pro Bowl 2 of those 5 years, so yes Gun did have something to do with his progress and success.

Donnie didn't have a Pro Bowl season until he parted ways with Gunther and the Chiefs. He broke 100 tackles once as a Chief. He broke 100 tackles in all 5 seasons as a Charger.

Of course, it's all right there on Pro Football Reference, but then again, I don't know anything about football, right?

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 04:31 PM
Aaron Rogers is out performing DJ.

And the only coach he's ever worked for is an alleged LB guru. :hmmm:

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 04:33 PM
I can't remember the last time a rookie DT tore it up in the NFL his first yr.

And.....with all due respect you don't know who was making that decision, Herm, Krum, or Gun.

The defensive scheme is set by the coordinator, unless he a complete lapdog and letting the head coach make those decisions.

Which leads us to point #2 about Gunther - the "Herm was in control" defense is bullshit. Just like when everybody wanted to applaud him for coming back under Vermiel. Nobody forced Gunther to take the job. Gunther is a gutless, spineless, foot-shuffling porter.

veist
05-12-2009, 04:37 PM
If he had all that talent he wouldn't have dropped like a rock in the draft. If it wasn't for Aaron Rogers, DJ would have been the biggest story on not being drafted as projected. FYI...Aaron Rogers is out performing DJ.

Yes its definitely the player and not the coaching when the player is out there showing he has the physical tools to be great and the staff keeps on not doing anything to get him to be great. I mean, his scouting never indicated "is a poor student of the game" or "doesn't take coaching" or such so why is it that a guy with immense talent being coached by this guru just can't get over the hump? Could he be a bust, I suppose but the evidence instead suggests that the problem is that his LB guru coach is a fraud. This same guru that had such success with Kendrell Bell whom he coveted that Bell is now out of football entirely since 2008.

Mojo Jojo
05-12-2009, 04:44 PM
And the only coach he's ever worked for is an alleged LB guru. :hmmm:

And Aaron Rogers is being coached by the guy who carried Paul Hackett's playbook in KC. By your logic Paul Hackett is a genius and we should bring him in to solve our problems.

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 04:51 PM
And Aaron Rogers is being coached by the guy who carried Paul Hackett's playbook in KC. By your logic Paul Hackett is a genius and we should bring him in to solve our problems.

No, because I'm not the one placing so much value on a coach. GUNTHER brought this on himself by talking about himself. He was always the guy that wanted to put himself in the middle of the discussion when it came to who got credit. And when things fell apart, he was nowhere to be found.

Let's make this clear - I don't just have a problem with Gunther, the coach. I have a problem with Gunther THE PERSON. I think he has shown, over his stints as DC and HC, that he lacks character and integrity. He's quick to take credit but just as quick to lay blame. I have zero respect for him and hope that he never again comes anywhere near the Kansas City Chiefs.

Mojo Jojo
05-12-2009, 04:55 PM
Yes its definitely the player and not the coaching when the player is out there showing he has the physical tools to be great and the staff keeps on not doing anything to get him to be great. I mean, his scouting never indicated "is a poor student of the game" or "doesn't take coaching" or such so why is it that a guy with immense talent being coached by this guru just can't get over the hump? Could he be a bust, I suppose but the evidence instead suggests that the problem is that his LB guru coach is a fraud. This same guru that had such success with Kendrell Bell whom he coveted that Bell is now out of football entirely since 2008.

Yet 14 other teams, almost half the league didn't want him. And looking back would you rather have DJ over Marcus Spears, 20th pick, Aaron Rodgers, 24th Pick, Roddy White, 27th pick, or Luis Castillo 28th pick?

Sometimes a player is just a player 8 to 10 years can start, but not a Pro Bowler. He is serviceable.

Using your logic Larry Fitzgerald will suck next year because Todd isn't there to coach him.

Coogs
05-12-2009, 04:57 PM
"barley coached"? Donnie and Gun were together 5 years before Gun was fired. I'm sure most people who know anything about football would agree that Donnie belonged in the Pro Bowl 2 of those 5 years, so yes Gun did have something to do with his progress and success.

Name Gun's other success stories in his tenure in KC.

I'll start the list for you.

1. Jared Allen


DT, Neil Smith, Dan Saliamua, Dale Carter, James Hasty and that gang basically go in before Gun IMO.

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 04:58 PM
Using your logic Larry Fitzgerald will suck next year because Todd isn't there to coach him.

ROFL

Coaching isn't retroactive. Fitz won't forget everything Haley taught him overnight.

You act like Gunther was handed somebody else's project - DJ's ENTIRE CAREER has been under Gunther.

There's absolutely zero logical connection between Gunther/DJ and your hypothetical.

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 05:02 PM
Name Gun's other success stories in his tenure in KC.

I'll start the list for you.

1. Jared Allen


DT, Neil Smith, Dan Saliamua, Dale Carter, James Hasty and that gang basically go in before Gun IMO.

Damn straight.

Mojo Jojo
05-12-2009, 05:40 PM
The defensive scheme is set by the coordinator, unless he a complete lapdog and letting the head coach make those decisions.

Which leads us to point #2 about Gunther - the "Herm was in control" defense is bullshit. Just like when everybody wanted to applaud him for coming back under Vermiel. Nobody forced Gunther to take the job. Gunther is a gutless, spineless, foot-shuffling porter.

Let's look at NFL History...The HC is always setting the tone over the side of the ball they coached. Did the DC set the tone under Buddy Ryan, Marty S., Bill Cowher? No. Did the OC set the tone under Dick Vermeil (please learn to spell his name), Don Coryell, Bill Walsh or even Hank Stram? No.

Do you think Todd Haley will put his stamp on the Chiefs Offense this year? See your point is worthless. A coordinator is always a lapdog. Your best point is that Gun was stupid to come back to KC. He had nothing to gain and a lot to lose.

Under Schwartz Gun will thrive.

kcbubb
05-12-2009, 05:42 PM
I have mixed feelings for Gunther.

I thought he did an awesome job in 2007. The defense was really good considering the personnel. The corners were old and the DTs were fair at best. But he coached them to the 13th best defense in the league. Which I thought was really good considering the talent he had and the considering how terrible the offense was. The Chiefs' offense was 31st in the league in 2007. I think they could have had a top 10 defense with a decent offense.

But he also made bad decisions on LBs like Bell which was supposed to be his specialty. And he tried numerous times to get players to change positions like Bartee.

Looking back on Gun's career, I really think he needs a dominant DE to be successful and if you give him one of those, I think he can be a pretty good defensive coordinator. If he doesn't have a dominant DE, he seems to pretty much suck.

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 05:44 PM
Let's look at NFL History...The HC is always setting the tone over the side of the ball they coached. Did the DC set the tone under Buddy Ryan, Marty S., Bill Cowher? No. Did the OC set the tone under Dick Vermeil (please learn to spell his name), Don Coryell, Bill Walsh or even Hank Stram? No.

Do you think Todd Haley will put his stamp on the Chiefs Offense this year? See your point is worthless. A coordinator is always a lapdog. Your best point is that Gun was stupid to come back to KC. He had nothing to gain and a lot to lose.

Under Schwartz Gun will thrive.

If Gun can teach his players how to TACKLE, he might.

But I highly doubt it.

veist
05-12-2009, 05:49 PM
Yet 14 other teams, almost half the league didn't want him. And looking back would you rather have DJ over Marcus Spears, 20th pick, Aaron Rodgers, 24th Pick, Roddy White, 27th pick, or Luis Castillo 28th pick?

Sometimes a player is just a player 8 to 10 years can start, but not a Pro Bowler. He is serviceable.

Using your logic Larry Fitzgerald will suck next year because Todd isn't there to coach him.

Yes, except no you utterly fail to even comprehend the argument about how coaching works. Welcome to the NFL draft where people regularly fail to identify the most talented players in the draft at the top of the draft. I mean seriously are you going to make the argument that the draft is anything more than an informed guess? Bottom line is DJ shows the talent and the one constant is he's had Gun running his defenses, the defenses under Gun have been unimpressive and he has shown that he in fact needs superior talent to achieve results. His entire rep is based on developing a few guys that were top top shelf talent. The quality of the coach isn't what he does with superior talent its what he does with the rest of the guys, its how he develops the raw guys. Gun hasn't developed more than a handful of players in 15yrs you have no leg to stand on. Its like making the argument that drunk driving is okay because some people get home okay.

Mojo Jojo
05-12-2009, 05:56 PM
Yes, except no you utterly fail to even comprehend the argument about how coaching works. Welcome to the NFL draft where people regularly fail to identify the most talented players in the draft at the top of the draft. I mean seriously are you going to make the argument that the draft is anything more than an informed guess? Bottom line is DJ shows the talent and the one constant is he's had Gun running his defenses, the defenses under Gun have been unimpressive and he has shown that he in fact needs superior talent to achieve results. His entire rep is based on developing a few guys that were top top shelf talent. The quality of the coach isn't what he does with superior talent its what he does with the rest of the guys, its how he develops the raw guys. Gun hasn't developed more than a handful of players in 15yrs you have no leg to stand on. Its like making the argument that drunk driving is okay because some people get home okay.

DJ shows talent? Good he was the 15th pick. You say Gun needs superior talent, and in the same statement claim that DJ is superior talent. So which is it? If DJ was superior talent then he overcomes Gun. If he is not then Gun overcomes him. Wow, please make up your mind and then come back with an argument.

Saleenman607
05-12-2009, 06:10 PM
I seem to recall a presser Goonther had one time after a loss, where a reporter mentioned the horrific tackling effort, to which Goonther replied something to the effect.......well these MF's should already know how to tackle buy the time they reach this level. Another reporter then asked, you don't practice tackling technique? Goonther just shrugged it off.......

That alone solidified it for me.......he's a freakin' joke

veist
05-12-2009, 06:13 PM
DJ shows talent? Good he was the 15th pick. You say Gun needs superior talent, and in the same statement claim that DJ is superior talent. So which is it? If DJ was superior talent then he overcomes Gun. If he is not then Gun overcomes him. Wow, please make up your mind and then come back with an argument.

Stick you hands in a blender please, seriously I never once claimed he was a superior talent I said he flashes talent and Gun did nothing to try to develop him. You are retarded, more retarded that CoMo and thats a failtastic achievement. There is an in-between between avg and superior ffs. But just keep ignoring the meat of the argument to try and make shit up.

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 06:23 PM
Let's look at NFL History...The HC is always setting the tone over the side of the ball they coached. Did the DC set the tone under Buddy Ryan, Marty S., Bill Cowher? No. Did the OC set the tone under Dick Vermeil (please learn to spell his name), Don Coryell, Bill Walsh or even Hank Stram? No.

Do you think Todd Haley will put his stamp on the Chiefs Offense this year? See your point is worthless. A coordinator is always a lapdog. Your best point is that Gun was stupid to come back to KC. He had nothing to gain and a lot to lose.

Under Schwartz Gun will thrive.

Teflon Gunther can do no wrong. It was Vermeil's fault, it was Marty's fault, it was Herm's fault.

Who's fault was it when GUNTHER was the head coach? Because Gunther said it wasn't his.

htismaqe
05-12-2009, 06:25 PM
DJ shows talent? Good he was the 15th pick. You say Gun needs superior talent, and in the same statement claim that DJ is superior talent. So which is it? If DJ was superior talent then he overcomes Gun. If he is not then Gun overcomes him. Wow, please make up your mind and then come back with an argument.

DJ is a POTENTIAL superior talent who got to suffer from some of the worst coaching in the NFL.

When did KCJ change his username anyway?

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 08:17 PM
I seem to recall a presser Goonther had one time after a loss, where a reporter mentioned the horrific tackling effort, to which Goonther replied something to the effect.......well these MF's should already know how to tackle buy the time they reach this level. Another reporter then asked, you don't practice tackling technique? Goonther just shrugged it off.......

That alone solidified it for me.......he's a freakin' joke

No shit.

If every guy on your squad isn't wrapping up and just trying to "hit-stop" the opponent; you're not doing job worth a flying fuck!:LOL:

Mojo Jojo
05-12-2009, 08:39 PM
Stick you hands in a blender please, seriously I never once claimed he was a superior talent I said he flashes talent and Gun did nothing to try to develop him. You are retarded, more retarded that CoMo and thats a failtastic achievement. There is an in-between between avg and superior ffs. But just keep ignoring the meat of the argument to try and make shit up.

How do you know Gun did nothing to try to develop him? Were you in the meetings at at all the practices? Maybe he has developed to his highest point?

By the way please learn to spell and punctuate. If you don't then you should stick your hands in the blender...RETARD.

veist
05-12-2009, 10:33 PM
Hey look at me, I'm Mojo Jojo the pedantic douche who will ignore the meat of an argument repeatedly when called on spouting off on things I have no comprehension of.

FYP

Its far, far more accurate and informative now. Get a more original shtick this one was old and busted a while ago.

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 10:35 PM
FYP

Its far, far more accurate and informative now.


LMAO

veist
05-12-2009, 10:51 PM
I almost went with "I'm doing my best Dickie V impression with Gun" but I dunno that seemed over the top.

Raised On Riots
05-12-2009, 10:57 PM
I almost went with "I'm doing my best Dickie V impression with Gun" but I dunno that seemed over the top.

Nah, you hit the right target.

milkman
05-13-2009, 07:02 AM
Cowher was only DT's DC for his first two years. DT spent more years and his productive years under Dave Adolph. So, by your logic Dave Adolph made DT.

DT had his best year, by far,in his second season, when he had his 20 sack season.
He never approached that number again.

Coach
05-13-2009, 07:11 AM
Speaking of Dave Adolph, whatever happened to him....

milkman
05-13-2009, 07:13 AM
If you are going to blame Gun for DJ not developing even you need to credit Gun for Donnie Edwards. Donnie was a 4th round pick and a DE in college and most "experts" called it a reach...yet he turned into a Pro Bowl LB. Remember DJ was projected a top ten pick and dropped to 15...maybe he wasn't as good as people thought going into the draft, and maybe Donnie Edwards was underrated. Either way if you blame Gun for DJ you must credit him for Donnie.

Donnie Edwards?

Really?

LMAO

milkman
05-13-2009, 07:15 AM
Donnie Edwards turned into a Pro Bowl LB in SAN DIEGO. In a 3-4 defense to boot. How does Gunther get credit for a guy he barely coached?

And he only made into that PB as an alternate.

Coach
05-13-2009, 07:16 AM
Hicks is a classic example of the demonizing I'm getting at. He was a serviceable player who busted his butt every game while he was here, and from all reports was as hard a worker and student of the game as you could want. He didn't have a world of talent. His one 14 sack year was a fluke, really, but Chiefs fans can't forgive him for not duplicating that. He really doesn't deserve the abuse that's heaped on him. It's not his fault the Chiefs didn't have someone better to push him to the bench.

The same scenario is playing itself out with DJ. The guy has been a starter virtually every game since he was drafted, yet somehow that's not enough. If you're not a Hall-of-Famer, you don't deserve to be drafted at 15(?), I guess.


p.s. nothing in this post should be construed as a defense of Ryan Sims.


Hick's problem was that he bit the damned bootleg every freaking time, regardless if he's supposed to go after the running back or not, he still bit the damn thing, like he never seen it before.

That was my big problem with Hicks.

LaChapelle
05-13-2009, 07:17 AM
Fuck the Ford Fiesta /Gunther

milkman
05-13-2009, 07:18 AM
"barley coached"? Donnie and Gun were together 5 years before Gun was fired. I'm sure most people who know anything about football would agree that Donnie belonged in the Pro Bowl 2 of those 5 years, so yes Gun did have something to do with his progress and success.

Donnie Edwatds is a prime example of Cunther's epic fail.

He had the speed and the talent to excel, but he couldn't fucking tackle to save his life.

He just rode those ballcarriers like a bronco buster until the the rest of the clowns showed up.

In San Diego, he actually learned how to fucking tackle.

htismaqe
05-13-2009, 08:47 AM
How do you know Gun did nothing to try to develop him? Were you in the meetings at at all the practices? Maybe he has developed to his highest point?

By the way please learn to spell and punctuate. If you don't then you should stick your hands in the blender...RETARD.

Yeah, Gun's track record is such that it's far easier to believe that DJ is maxed out and Gun just couldn't help him.

ROFL ROFL ROFL

htismaqe
05-13-2009, 08:49 AM
Hick's problem was that he bit the damned bootleg every freaking time, regardless if he's supposed to go after the running back or not, he still bit the damn thing, like he never seen it before.

That was my big problem with Hicks.

Hicks' BIGGEST problem was that he wouldn't keep his damn mouth shut. Same for Gunther.

It's one thing to suck - see William Bartee.

It's another thing altogether to blame everyone but yourself (Gunther) or call yourself a leader because you know how to lose with grace (Hicks).

milkman
05-13-2009, 08:52 AM
Hicks' BIGGEST problem was that he wouldn't keep his damn mouth shut. Same for Gunther.

It's one thing to suck - see William Bartee.

It's another thing altogether to blame everyone but yourself (Gunther) or call yourself a leader because you know how to lose with grace (Hicks).

Not defending Hicks, but wasn't it Dick that talked about Hicks' ability to lose gracefully.

Chiefnj2
05-13-2009, 09:24 AM
I seem to recall a presser Goonther had one time after a loss, where a reporter mentioned the horrific tackling effort, to which Goonther replied something to the effect.......well these MF's should already know how to tackle buy the time they reach this level. Another reporter then asked, you don't practice tackling technique? Goonther just shrugged it off.......

That alone solidified it for me.......he's a freakin' joke

Most teams do NOT practice tackling. It's a thing of the past. Teams don't want to risk their star offensive playmakers getting hurt.

Raised On Riots
05-13-2009, 09:43 AM
Most teams do NOT practice tackling. It's a thing of the past. Teams don't want to risk their star offensive playmakers getting hurt.

Well that's a load of shit. No wonder these guys suck.

Brock
05-13-2009, 09:45 AM
Most teams do NOT practice tackling. It's a thing of the past. Teams don't want to risk their star offensive playmakers getting hurt.

Isn't that what the practice squad is for?

Coogs
05-13-2009, 09:50 AM
Here is a Q&A from Gun from 8/1/2005. About 1/3rd of way down there is a question on tackling. As usual, his response is sort of hard to follow.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2005/08/01/qa_gunther_cunningham/

milkman
05-13-2009, 09:51 AM
Most teams do NOT practice tackling. It's a thing of the past. Teams don't want to risk their star offensive playmakers getting hurt.

Teams like the Ravens, Titans and Steelers still manage to find ways to get their players to use solid fundamental tackling technique, even without the live tackling in practice.

Troy Polomalu is more fundamentally sound now than when he came into the league, and he still has some work to do.

milkman
05-13-2009, 09:56 AM
Here is a Q&A from Gun from 8/1/2005. About 1/3rd of way down there is a question on tackling. As usual, his response is sort of hard to follow.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2005/08/01/qa_gunther_cunningham/

Essentially he's saying that they only way for them to learn is to do it.

He hasn't really figured out how to teach it without live tackling drills, and there's no one who can tell him how to teach it any other way.

He should have just said "I'm a dumbass that can neither teach, or be taught".

Raised On Riots
05-13-2009, 10:03 AM
Essentially he's saying that they only way for them to learn is to do it.

He hasn't really figured out how to teach it without live tackling drills, and there's no one who can tell him how to teach it any other way.

He should have just said "I'm a dumbass that can neither teach, or be taught".

LMAO

Count Alex's Losses
05-13-2009, 10:06 AM
Did someone seriously compare Hicks to DJ? Hicks didn't have half of DJ's talent. He was a liability.

DJ is not so much of a liability as he's not the playmaker everyone thought he would be. Horrible comparison.

htismaqe
05-13-2009, 10:33 AM
Not defending Hicks, but wasn't it Dick that talked about Hicks' ability to lose gracefully.

He did too. But Hicks said it in the locker room after a loss. I won't ever forget it.

ChiefaRoo
05-13-2009, 11:02 AM
Q: How do you improve the tackling do you have to teach them all over again how to tackle?

CUNNINGHAM: “I told the coaches, we just go out of a meeting, there is nobody in this country or any other country that plays this game, coaches this game that is going to tell me how to teach tacking. There is only one way to do it and that is to tackle. The rap that you hear on the field that’s live. Tackle. Don’t take the guy to the ground but wrap. What happens is that you get your feet and you get your angles you get your arms and your body involved and sometimes the offensive guys don’t like it. But we try to make sure that we talk to them about how we do it and that’s what we’re trying to do. I think the coaches are supplementing that with drills. I have been around too long, it’s not about drills, it’s about playing the game and hitting the guy that has the ball in his hands. He is showing up and doing those things right. When he misses we’re on him right away to make sure that he understands why he did.”

WTF??

Coogs
05-13-2009, 11:07 AM
I think the coaches are supplementing that with drills. I have been around too long, itís not about drills

:hmmm:

Raised On Riots
05-13-2009, 11:08 AM
Q: How do you improve the tackling do you have to teach them all over again how to tackle?

CUNNINGHAM: ďI told the coaches, we just go out of a meeting, there is nobody in this country or any other country that plays this game, coaches this game that is going to tell me how to teach tacking. There is only one way to do it and that is to tackle. The rap that you hear on the field thatís live. Tackle. Donít take the guy to the ground but wrap. What happens is that you get your feet and you get your angles you get your arms and your body involved and sometimes the offensive guys donít like it. But we try to make sure that we talk to them about how we do it and thatís what weíre trying to do. I think the coaches are supplementing that with drills. I have been around too long, itís not about drills, itís about playing the game and hitting the guy that has the ball in his hands. He is showing up and doing those things right. When he misses weíre on him right away to make sure that he understands why he did.Ē

WTF??

Clusterfuck achieved.

tk13
05-13-2009, 11:18 AM
Derrick Johnson was a force in college, extremely talented, and his DC was Greg Robinson. He got more out of him than Gun did. Now his talent might be wasted. I think Gun could have success in the right situation but he makes way too many excuses for my taste. It's always somebody else's fault, even when he was the one giving Carl the list of guys he wanted.

kcbubb
05-14-2009, 10:51 AM
Q: How do you improve the tackling do you have to teach them all over again how to tackle?

CUNNINGHAM: ďI told the coaches, we just go out of a meeting, there is nobody in this country or any other country that plays this game, coaches this game that is going to tell me how to teach tacking. There is only one way to do it and that is to tackle. The rap that you hear on the field thatís live. Tackle. Donít take the guy to the ground but wrap. What happens is that you get your feet and you get your angles you get your arms and your body involved and sometimes the offensive guys donít like it. But we try to make sure that we talk to them about how we do it and thatís what weíre trying to do. I think the coaches are supplementing that with drills. I have been around too long, itís not about drills, itís about playing the game and hitting the guy that has the ball in his hands. He is showing up and doing those things right. When he misses weíre on him right away to make sure that he understands why he did.Ē

WTF??

He's right. He did not say it very eloquently, but he's right.

The only way you learn to tackle is to tackle in real life game situations. Non full contact drills don't really get the job done.

You have to go practice like it's a game with full contact tackling to really learn to tackle. Obviously, the NFL can't do that on a weekly basis in season due to injuries.

He also notes that if someone misses a tackle that they go to that player and make sure that understand why they missed it. Whether that be arm tackling or dropping your head, the player needs to fully understand what they did wrong or what made them miss the tackle.

milkman
05-14-2009, 06:17 PM
He's right. He did not say it very eloquently, but he's right.

The only way you learn to tackle is to tackle in real life game situations. Non full contact drills don't really get the job done.

You have to go practice like it's a game with full contact tackling to really learn to tackle. Obviously, the NFL can't do that on a weekly basis in season due to injuries.

He also notes that if someone misses a tackle that they go to that player and make sure that understand why they missed it. Whether that be arm tackling or dropping your head, the player needs to fully understand what they did wrong or what made them miss the tackle.

If he's right, then tell me how the teams I mentioned (among others) are able to teach their players fundamental tackling?