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Direckshun
05-16-2009, 08:22 PM
Not a great article, but it can start a conversation.

http://www.slate.com/id/2218357/

Notes Toward a Theory of Obama
What we've learned so far about the president.
By Jacob Weisberg
Posted Saturday, May 16, 2009, at 7:11 AM ET

Barack Obama began his presidency with an unusual attribute: that the country already understood him, or thought it did, from his books. The story he told in Dreams From My Father and reinforced in The Audacity of Hope was about a man of multiple worlds who struggles to come to terms with his father's abandonment and a confounding racial identity. Obama resolves his rootlessness and anger by committing himself socially, religiously, and, eventually, politically. He depicts his mature self as unusually grounded, able to see other points of view and to bridge chasms.

The protagonist of these books is a persuasive and appealing character—so much so that he left little demand for alternative explanations. As time goes by, though, Obama's Obama feels less and less satisfying. It's not that the author's projection of himself is distorted in any obvious way, but rather that it leaves too much unexplained—his ambition, his aloofness, his fundamental beliefs, if any. It's too soon to offer an interpretation of our president. But after four months in office, we can see some emerging themes.

He sees the middle ground as high ground. Candidates who talk about bringing people together, being uniters not dividers, or changing the tone in Washington are usually blowing happy smoke. At this point, however, Obama's focus on reconciliation is clearly more than shtick. We saw this impulse at work when he made pre-emptive concessions on his stimulus package in an unsuccessful effort to win Republican support. We saw it in another way when he personally brokered a compromise between the French and Chinese presidents at the G20 summit in London. Every few days, it seems, Obama, tries for a "new beginning"—with Iran, Cuba, the Muslim world, even Paul Krugman. Engaging with opponents animates him more than hanging with friends.

This is a wonderful instinct that is bettering America's image and making domestic politics more civil. But listening is not a moral stance, and elevating it to one only highlights the question of what Obama really stands for. The consensus-seeker repudiates torture but doesn't want to investigate it; he endorses gay equality but not in marriage or the military; he thinks government's role is to do whatever works. I continue to suspect him of harboring deeper convictions.

He's the decider for real. Accounts of Obama's decision-making depict him driving process as well as result. Faced with a tough call about whether to declassify additional Bush administration torture memos, Obama called a debate, listened intently, and finished by dictating the next day's press release announcing the release of the documents. Another insider ticktock has him personally directing the futures of GM and Chrysler. Advisers who play what are supposed to be honest-broker, facilitating roles at the White House either play different roles (Larry Summers) or don't play much role at all (Jim Jones). Obama sees himself as ringmaster as well as star performer.

The president's knack for deep dives into policy questions is undeniably impressive. But as quick a study as he is, his supreme self-confidence may shade into overconfidence. He shows signs of suffering from the arrogance that often accompanies brilliance. It's unlikely, for instance, that Obama can function as his own grand strategy guru on foreign policy. But he doesn't seem inclined to give that job to anyone else.

He likes it hot. If you have a friendly conversation with someone close to Obama, he or she is likely to marvel at the president's comfort level with crisis. This is a man who plays it cool at all times but has never liked standing still. He ran for Congress prematurely and lost, then ran for the Senate prematurely and got lucky. He was quickly bored in the Senate, where it took too long to get things done. When he was thinking about running for president, his question was whether the moment would be ripe for a great leader.

He needn't have worried. Obama has more troubles to deal with, foreign and domestic, than any president since FDR. One day last month, he faced decisions about the fate of the auto industry, a new strategy for the war in Afghanistan, a North Korean missile threat, and a flood in Fargo, N.D. "What is this, a West Wing episode?" David Axelrod quipped, according to the New York Times. The question here is capacity, not capability. Can any one person simultaneously manage so many issues in the hands-on way Obama insists on managing them?

He's ruthless. In a recent interview with the New York Times, Obama described his economic policy as "ruthless pragmatism." Interesting choice of modifiers. Obama has a healthy disdain for the overrated virtue of political loyalty. Around the nomination process, this has been slightly chilling to watch. If you're useful, you can hang around with him. If you start to look like a liability, enjoy your time with the wolves. Before the inauguration, Christopher Hitchens described Obama as feline in his demeanor. The president is catlike also in his lack of evident affection for the people who take care of him. His cracks at the White House Correspondents' Dinner about Hillary Clinton being an envious loser, Larry Summers' woman problem, and training his dog not to pee on Tim Geithner skirted cruelty. Obama's jokes about himself were about how great everyone thinks he is.

StcChief
05-16-2009, 08:41 PM
spending money like a drunken sailor.

Hog Farmer
05-16-2009, 10:32 PM
We've learned that he's going to destroy America just like I said!

whatsmynameagain
05-16-2009, 10:53 PM
We've learned that he's going to destroy America just like I said!

define destroy
Posted via Mobile Device

Deberg_1990
05-16-2009, 11:36 PM
We've learned hes a 1 term President.

banyon
05-16-2009, 11:38 PM
define destroy
Posted via Mobile Device

I think he means destroy = unmilked hog balls.

BucEyedPea
05-16-2009, 11:59 PM
He sees the middle ground as high ground.

ROFL

Hog Farmer
05-17-2009, 05:53 AM
define destroy
Posted via Mobile Device



Are you an IDIOT ??????

HonestChieffan
05-17-2009, 06:49 AM
1) He is even more left than anyone guessed.
2) His bad judgement about people remains based on the pick of Geitner, Sebelius, his VP and others
3) He is a narcissist beyond all imagination
4) He has no hesitation to involve government where the marketplace should be allowed to operate.
5) He will lose control over his congress.

But, in Chicago, its all ok so he won't even look back.

SNR
05-17-2009, 07:30 AM
Direckshun, by "conversation" do you mean "shit-slinging fest?"

BucEyedPea
05-17-2009, 08:26 AM
1) He is even more left than anyone guessed.

I knew he was socialist but I never imagined to this degree. It is a massive growth in govt. It's a Marxist Revolution. We now know what the far left of the D party is about. It's not about the Constitution, property rights or liberty. Liberty applies only to smut and/or destructive personal behaviors. Of course, those eventually necessitate more govt. So they factor into their total govt ideas. The grass roots is very naive though.

Obama is an Allende.

patteeu
05-17-2009, 09:42 AM
1) He is even more left than anyone guessed.

I don't think we all underestimated how far left he was, but I admit that I underestimated how fast and how far left he'd push the country AND how willing Congress and the country would be to follow. I guess that a lot of people didn't ever really understand why they opposed communism. Apparently most folks were just opposed to the word.

mlyonsd
05-17-2009, 10:20 AM
He's very unpredictable. He bounces around on issues like a ping pong ball to the point no one knows what the hell he's thinking.

I'm guessing he'd be very hard to beat in chess.

HonestChieffan
05-17-2009, 10:25 AM
Id add reckless. His disregard for the total impact of some of the things he has put into motion I believe will ultimately get him in trouble. The most recent example is the way bond holders were tossed aside in the Chrysler fiasco. There will be repercussions, I would belive in the courts, to establish the trampeling of the bondholders by the administration.

This will also impact business ability to use corporate bonds as a way to raise capital,

BucEyedPea
05-17-2009, 11:35 AM
I don't think we all underestimated how far left he was, but I admit that I underestimated how fast and how far left he'd push the country AND how willing Congress and the country would be to follow. I guess that a lot of people didn't ever really understand why they opposed communism. Apparently most folks were just opposed to the word.

I think there is some distinction between being a social democrat aka Euro-Socialist and a red...as Allende was. Obama is an Allende. I'm still glad the Rs ( the moderate socialists) are out of the WH though. Or we'd be at war with Iran with more spending, monetarzation, debt and deficits. But I would like to see more of them in Congress right now as a check. Maybe when people see the results of this program the socialist left will be finished.

BigRedChief
05-17-2009, 12:05 PM
If you guys really think Obama is a socialist as in the way the word is ussually used to describe a version of social/economic/government approach you need to do a bit more research.

Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid are socialist programs. But to say that Obama is trying to turn us into Sweden and Holland is asine and nothing but politics.

From my point of view all his major programs and initiatives are nothing more than what he said he would do on the campaign trial. If you were against those policies then surprise you think they are bad now.

BucEyedPea
05-17-2009, 12:11 PM
If you guys really think Obama is a socialist as in the way the word is ussually used to describe a version of social/economic/government approach you need to do a bit more research.

Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid are socialist programs. But to say that Obama is trying to turn us into Sweden and Holland is asine and nothing but politics.

From my point of view all his major programs and initiatives are nothing more than what he said he would do on the campaign trial. If you were against those policies then surprise you think they are bad now.

You are in a major state of denial. Even Sweden has liberalized it's economy more toward markets due to it crumbling or having some problems there which we don't hear much about. Obama is moving in the opposite direction. On economics, Obama is worse than those places....he's an Allende.

HonestChieffan
05-17-2009, 12:15 PM
Substance is always hard to deal with so people revert to labels, attacking a source, or name calling....regardless of how you label it, the substance of the administration to date is taking us far far more left than we even know at a higher cost than reported and with long range negative impact that will require years to unravel.

BucEyedPea
05-17-2009, 12:18 PM
Substance is always hard to deal with so people revert to labels, attacking a source, or name calling....regardless of how you label it, the substance of the administration to date is taking us far far more left than we even know at a higher cost than reported and with long range negative impact that will require years to unravel.

I don't think it's reverting when someone uses labels. It's only when they're used as insults or epithets. When it used as the proper terminology for a category of thought then it saves a lot of time writing what that category stands for. Socialism, of Allende's kind is the substance of Obama. Popularly elected but when discovered what he really was people wanted him out when it ruined their economy. Of course power was being amassed to prevent getting him out. We'll see how far it goes. So far it doesn't look too good as Obama is not giving any of Bush's seized powers back.

memyselfI
05-17-2009, 12:31 PM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/19625/busch.JPG

NewChief
05-17-2009, 01:48 PM
He appointed a real dipshit for Education Secretary. Arne Duncan pisses me off every time he opens his mouth. It's amazing to me that anyone could be as badly misinformed and off base as this guy and have risen as high as he has.

banyon
05-17-2009, 01:56 PM
He appointed a real dipshit for Education Secretary. Arne Duncan pisses me off every time he opens his mouth. It's amazing to me that anyone could be as badly misinformed and off base as this guy and have risen as high as he has.

What kinds of dumb s*** has he been saying? I haven't really followed him much yet.

NewChief
05-17-2009, 02:07 PM
What kinds of dumb s*** has he been saying? I haven't really followed him much yet.

We need school 12 hours a day, 6 days a week in order to compete with other countries. While I don't oppose more flexible hours and scheduling for school, to just blanket reduce it to: kids need to be in school more is ludicrous.

This post covers my thoughts on it:
http://speedchange.blogspot.com/2009/04/arne-duncans-long-day.html

StcChief
05-17-2009, 02:19 PM
. at least he's stopping the BS I inherited this mess. learn to lead the country.
Spends like a drunken sailor.....

Getting a heavy dose .... of come to earth reality....finally after 100 days of "my way".

SBK
05-17-2009, 03:10 PM
He is who we thought he was, and we let him off the hook.

BucEyedPea
05-17-2009, 03:33 PM
We need school 12 hours a day, 6 days a week in order to compete with other countries. While I don't oppose more flexible hours and scheduling for school, to just blanket reduce it to: kids need to be in school more is ludicrous.

This post covers my thoughts on it:
http://speedchange.blogspot.com/2009/04/arne-duncans-long-day.html

Hmmm...interesting. I think too long a school day or continuous long hours of academic work actually reduces learning. Breaks are needed, not just for fun but to get out and get some space and do practical things that are physical including art and music.

stevieray
05-17-2009, 03:37 PM
Isn't his SOE from the Chicago School District??

IIRC, their numbers are/were really bad.

NewChief
05-17-2009, 03:38 PM
Hmmm...interesting. I think too long a school day or continuous long hours of academic work actually reduces learning. Breaks are needed, not just for fun but to get out and get some space and do practical things that are physical including art and music.

Exactly! The last thing we need is kids sitting in classrooms for longer periods. Now if you're talking about a systemic change that involves more flexible scheduling, activity time, collaboration time, laboratory time, and work time scheduled flexibly into the school day, then it's one thing. If you're just talking about kids sitting in more classes longer (which seems is what Duncan believes) then it's insane.

NewChief
05-17-2009, 03:40 PM
Isn't his SOE from the Chicago School District??

IIRC, their numbers are/were really bad.

Yes, he is. He's supposedly helped to "reform" the Chicago school district, but I'm not sure that the evidence really supports any kind of true improvement. Evidently the guy can hoop, though, which seems to count for quite a lot in the Obama administration.

stevieray
05-17-2009, 03:41 PM
Yes, he is. He's supposedly helped to "reform" the Chicago school district, but I'm not sure that the evidence really supports any kind of true improvement. Evidently the guy can hoop, though, which seems to count for quite a lot in the Obama administration.

ok, that's funny right there.

BucEyedPea
05-17-2009, 03:42 PM
Yes, he is. He's supposedly helped to "reform" the Chicago school district, but I'm not sure that the evidence really supports any kind of true improvement. Evidently the guy can hoop, though, which seems to count for quite a lot in the Obama administration.

Some of the worst readers I've had have been from Chicago city schools. And i mean really bad...can barely construct a sentence. Even one how admitted he couldn't even read which was why he wasnt reading the text.

StcChief
05-17-2009, 03:59 PM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/19625/busch.JPG
The whole drinkablity ads really compare..... Obummer is backwash.

patteeu
05-17-2009, 08:10 PM
You are in a major state of denial. Even Sweden has liberalized it's economy more toward markets due to it crumbling or having some problems there which we don't hear much about. Obama is moving in the opposite direction. On economics, Obama is worse than those places....he's an Allende.

As long as Obama himself doesn't call it socialism or communism, BigRedChief is down with anything he proposes.

patteeu
05-17-2009, 08:19 PM
Hmmm...interesting. I think too long a school day or continuous long hours of academic work actually reduces learning. Breaks are needed, not just for fun but to get out and get some space and do practical things that are physical including art and music.

They're going to give them breaks from the academics. It's during these breaks that they will teach them things like

why it's so important to snitch on a black market capitalist
the citizen's duty to the state
the evils of wealth and prosperity
how religion corrupts society
etc.


;)

NewChief
05-17-2009, 09:06 PM
They're going to give them breaks from the academics. It's during these breaks that they will teach them things like

why it's so important to snitch on a black market capitalist
the citizen's duty to the state
the evils of wealth and prosperity
how religion corrupts society
etc.


;)

I actually had some similar thoughts earlier. One of the hallmark's of Duncan's plan in Chicago was the massive involvement of ROTC and military programs. There was a distinct fusion of military with public education. Not itself necessarily a bad thing.... but when taken with the completely picture, it does get a little weird. Same with the service component (as some of our Prison Planet crowd have warned us). I'm not saying that I'm buying into all of this, but I can see how one would start to connect dots to create this picture.

patteeu
05-18-2009, 12:50 AM
I actually had some similar thoughts earlier. One of the hallmark's of Duncan's plan in Chicago was the massive involvement of ROTC and military programs. There was a distinct fusion of military with public education. Not itself necessarily a bad thing.... but when taken with the completely picture, it does get a little weird. Same with the service component (as some of our Prison Planet crowd have warned us). I'm not saying that I'm buying into all of this, but I can see how one would start to connect dots to create this picture.

Just to be clear (and I assume you already recognize this), my post was tongue in cheek. :)

Messier
05-18-2009, 02:24 AM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/19625/busch.JPG

So, Obama is perceived as being a socialist with eyes on making America into West Sweden, yet he's also seen as Bush with half the calories? How could there be such diverse opinions on his political leanings?

patteeu
05-18-2009, 02:36 AM
So, Obama is perceived as being a socialist with eyes on making America into West Sweden, yet he's also seen as Bush with half the calories? How could there be such diverse opinions on his political leanings?

It's not that diverse. Obama is pretty clearly Bush light so far on the GWoT front. He's escalating the war in Afghanistan, he's dragging his feet about withdrawing from Iraq, he's leaving the door open for enhanced interrogations and renditions, he's having trouble coming up with anything but words when it comes to closing Gitmo, and he's going to re-start military commissions with only slight, face-saving modifications.

And it's not like Bush was a movement conservative on the domestic front so the differences there aren't as great as they should be either. Yeah he was a tax cutter and yeah he had a modestly conservative idea about social security reform, but he was a big spender. Not an Obama-level ginormous, bankrupt-the-country, slay-the-economy spender, but a big spender nonetheless. I guess on the domestic front, Obama is Bush on steroids.

BucEyedPea
05-18-2009, 08:15 AM
Not an Obama-level ginormous, bankrupt-the-country, slay-the-economy spender, but a big spender nonetheless. I guess on the domestic front, Obama is Bush on steroids.

It's not just the spending, it's the nationalization of industry. Go check out the article that was originally written in Pravda then translated on how the Russians, with even Putin warning us about going the Marxist as folly. Even Putin is warning us. Who woulda ever thought we'd come this far. According to it even our D congress is planning legislation on how private companies give out bonus and pay it's executives....not just bailout firms. ( I haven't heard this yet myself.) This is Marxism...and it's happening with whimper. This Russian also faults our education system for it happening too.
Oh, but it's "help." I say it's "help" as betrayal.

HemiEd
05-18-2009, 11:30 AM
We've learned hes a 1 term President.
Oh, I so hope that is true.

HemiEd
05-18-2009, 11:37 AM
Yes, he is. He's supposedly helped to "reform" the Chicago school district, but I'm not sure that the evidence really supports any kind of true improvement. Evidently the guy can hoop, though, which seems to count for quite a lot in the Obama administration.
ROFL
A fiew of my golfing friends, were bragging about how that was such a positive for Obama.

Hog Farmer
05-18-2009, 04:59 PM
If I'd had to stay in school 12 hours a day 6 days a week I never would have landed this great job !

Nightwish
05-18-2009, 09:54 PM
Maybe when people see the results of this program the socialist left will be finished.
And if and when the result of "this program" isn't the Armageddon you're predicting it to be, are you going to fuss when we revisit these Madame Cleo moments of yours?

Nightwish
05-18-2009, 09:57 PM
If I'd had to stay in school 12 hours a day 6 days a week I never would have landed this great job !
No, but you might have learned punctuation and spacing. The things you give up ...

wazu
05-19-2009, 01:24 AM
What have I learned?

Obama is the worst president in U.S. history. He has assaulted our freedoms by chaining us, our children, our grandchildren, and our great-grandchildren to unprecedented levels of debt...and he has barely cleared 100 days.

"Crisis as opportunity" will be his legacy.

Direckshun
05-19-2009, 02:07 AM
What have I learned?

Obama is the worst president in U.S. history. He has assaulted our freedoms by chaining us, our children, our grandchildren, and our great-grandchildren to unprecedented levels of debt...and he has barely cleared 100 days.

"Crisis as opportunity" will be his legacy.

Pure gold.

patteeu
05-19-2009, 07:52 AM
What have I learned?

Obama is the worst president in U.S. history. He has assaulted our freedoms by chaining us, our children, our grandchildren, and our great-grandchildren to unprecedented levels of debt...and he has barely cleared 100 days.

"Crisis as opportunity" will be his legacy.

Yep, the only way I could imagine him being worse is if he actually followed through on some of the campaign promises he's broken or deferred.

BucEyedPea
05-19-2009, 04:41 PM
What have I learned?

Obama is the worst president in U.S. history. He has assaulted our freedoms by chaining us, our children, our grandchildren, and our great-grandchildren to unprecedented levels of debt...and he has barely cleared 100 days.

"Crisis as opportunity" will be his legacy.

Brilliant!

BucEyedPea
05-19-2009, 04:43 PM
And if and when the result of "this program" isn't the Armageddon you're predicting it to be, are you going to fuss when we revisit these Madame Cleo moments of yours?

It's not crystal ball reading. That's for people with avatars like yours. It's all been done before with FDR and what was really a recession was turned into a Great Depression for over a decade. It ended after WWII following cuts in govt spending. History is my laboratory. What worked before will work again. What didn't work before will not work again.

Oh and let's remember that you dubbed in the word Armageddon. I didn't. Again the reading issue.

SBK
05-19-2009, 04:46 PM
Crisis as opportunity is good. I'm pretty sure he'll also be known for saying one thing, like I don't want to own car companies, and doing the exact opposite, like buying car companies.

For the first time in my life we have a President that literally scares me.

BucEyedPea
05-19-2009, 04:46 PM
So, Obama is perceived as being a socialist with eyes on making America into West Sweden, yet he's also seen as Bush with half the calories? How could there be such diverse opinions on his political leanings?

They're not that diverse that's why. Bush governed to the left of LBJ. He was a pretty socialist too. Just as Nixon was pretty socialist. Oh, and the NeoCons have been returning to the Democratic party too.

wazu
05-20-2009, 12:13 AM
Oh, and the NeoCons have been returning to the Democratic party too.

And good riddance.

patteeu
05-20-2009, 06:50 AM
They're not that diverse that's why. Bush governed to the left of LBJ. He was a pretty socialist too. Just as Nixon was pretty socialist. Oh, and the NeoCons have been returning to the Democratic party too.

As usual, "neocon" means whatever you want it to mean at the moment. You treat the word "neocon" like a liberal treats the constitution.

HonestChieffan
05-20-2009, 07:22 AM
As usual, "neocon" means whatever you want it to mean at the moment. You treat the word "neocon" like a liberal treats the constitution.

I cant get over how so many people have to create these labels, use them at will, and fail to remember a absolute truth of politics....the party that wins is the party that attracts more people to the polls to vote for thier guy or gal.

Democrats will soon begin to eat thier young as the conservative democrats become more uncomfortable with the far left controling their direction....no different than what the republicans are going through now with the far right defining only in their narrow terms who is a republican. That is beginning to wane and hopefully we will see some form of balance withing the republican party begin to surface.

BucEyedPea
05-20-2009, 09:21 AM
As usual, "neocon" means whatever you want it to mean at the moment. You treat the word "neocon" like a liberal treats the constitution.

No, that's the same meaning I always had ( as most intent observers of them). A leftie that's a hawk.
BTW one reason Kristol keeps bringing up Bush's name these days is because they truly hate the GOP and know this is the death knell for them.

BucEyedPea
05-20-2009, 09:23 AM
I cant get over how so many people have to create these labels, use them at will, and fail to remember a absolute truth of politics....the party that wins is the party that attracts more people to the polls to vote for thier guy or gal.

Democrats will soon begin to eat thier young as the conservative democrats become more uncomfortable with the far left controling their direction....no different than what the republicans are going through now with the far right defining only in their narrow terms who is a republican. That is beginning to wane and hopefully we will see some form of balance withing the republican party begin to surface.

Says an R that accepts govt farm subsidies? Tell me, is "R" an incorrect label? Is it created at will? Is it the truth?

BigRedChief
05-20-2009, 09:30 AM
What have I learned?

Obama is the worst president in U.S. history. He has assaulted our freedoms by chaining us, our children, our grandchildren, and our great-grandchildren to unprecedented levels of debt...and he has barely cleared 100 days.

"Crisis as opportunity" will be his legacy.
a blurb from a blogger. since it seems that bloggers are authoritative on here now.

One thing supporters of the White House are pointing out this week is that, despite the rhetoric from some opponents, the president has had a remarkable early track record at getting long-time opponents to negotiate with each other and with the White House. The examples: yesterday’s emissions announcement (where industry and labor groups stood besides the president), health care (industry folks pledging to reduce health-care costs), and even financial regulation. Obama supporters point out that leading business leaders have showed a willingness to work with the White House, and he's used that to his advantage by getting major compromises early on.

BucEyedPea
05-20-2009, 09:38 AM
a blurb from a blogger. since it seems that bloggers are authoritative on here now.

Ya' know what's funny, journalists use the term, or "label" if you prefer as an insult. They claim that bloggers copy them....but it's the bloggers that are providing some good analysis. Now some journalist copy them. But the journalist use the word to run them down as inept when underneath they really just resent their competition.

BucEyedPea
05-20-2009, 09:54 AM
One thing supporters of the White House are pointing out this week is that, despite the rhetoric from some opponents, the president has had a remarkable early track record at getting long-time opponents to negotiate with each other and with the White House. The examples: yesterday’s emissions announcement (where industry and labor groups stood besides the president), health care (industry folks pledging to reduce health-care costs), and even financial regulation. Obama supporters point out that leading business leaders have showed a willingness to work with the White House, and he's used that to his advantage by getting major compromises early on.
More evidence of Republican socialism.

patteeu
05-20-2009, 10:15 AM
No, that's the same meaning I always had ( as most intent observers of them). A leftie that's a hawk.
BTW one reason Kristol keeps bringing up Bush's name these days is because they truly hate the GOP and know this is the death knell for them.

Do you have the impression that Bill Kristol is supporting the democrats now? I assume you think Dick Cheney is a neocon since you think I'm one. Is it your impression that Dick Cheney is sounding off now to help the democrats?

No, I think I was right the first time. The handful of neocons who have said something positive about democrats since the election or the few who might have even switched parties are a small fraction of those you've been calling neocon for years now. Your definition is completely fluid.

patteeu
05-20-2009, 10:16 AM
a blurb from a blogger. since it seems that bloggers are authoritative on here now.

One thing supporters of the White House are pointing out this week is that, despite the rhetoric from some opponents, the president has had a remarkable early track record at getting long-time opponents to negotiate with each other and with the White House. The examples: yesterday’s emissions announcement (where industry and labor groups stood besides the president), health care (industry folks pledging to reduce health-care costs), and even financial regulation. Obama supporters point out that leading business leaders have showed a willingness to work with the White House, and he's used that to his advantage by getting major compromises early on.

Saddam Hussein and Hugo Chavez have great track records on bringing people who fear them together too.

CoMoChief
05-20-2009, 12:35 PM
1) He is even more left than anyone guessed.
2) His bad judgement about people remains based on the pick of Geitner, Sebelius, his VP and others
3) He is a narcissist beyond all imagination
4) He has no hesitation to involve government where the marketplace should be allowed to operate.
5) He will lose control over his congress.

But, in Chicago, its all ok so he won't even look back.

6) most of his political background is pro-marxist

alanm
05-20-2009, 01:19 PM
What I've learned so far I don't like. The honeymoon is ovah. :shake: