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View Full Version : Football Warren Sapp on Dorsey and LJ (NFL.com chat)


DTLB58
05-16-2009, 08:52 PM
http://chat.nfl.com/front/archived_chat/252

Kevin , Springfield MO 04:48 PM ET
Hey Warren, Was it hard for you to transition from a four man front in Tampa to a 3 man front in Oakland? Do you think Glenn Dorsey can do it in K.C.?

Warren Sapp, NFL Network
Glenn Dorsey's in trouble and so is Kansas City for trying to force him. Thank God I only had to do it for 16 games. It's not hard, it just takes away all the advantages you possess. Being fast, quick, agile in the 4-3. The 3-4 doesn't allow your talents to come out.

Joey, Kansas City, MO 05:30 PM ET
Your Opinion on Larry Johnson and how he will do this year and why??

Warren Sapp, NFL Network
I think if Larry Johnson takes in some good quality offseason work, I think he can get 1,700-1,800 yards and double-digit touchdowns. He's a nightmare to tackle.

I never really cared for much for Sapp while he was playing.

Some of the stuff he has said on NFLN since he has retired I agreed with, some of it I thought was way off base.

Not sure here if his comment about Dorsey is him thinking they are playing him at DT or DE???

Count Zarth
05-16-2009, 08:54 PM
Ooh, thanks for the LJ quote, Warren. Adding it to my file!

Mecca
05-16-2009, 08:54 PM
In a 3-4 regardless end or tackle he's going to be asked to tie up blockers more so than penetrate into the backfield with quickness.

Direckshun
05-16-2009, 08:58 PM
In a 3-4 regardless end or tackle he's going to be asked to tie up blockers more so than penetrate into the backfield with quickness.

Yeah 3-4 DEs never penetrate into the backfield with quickness.

shitgoose
05-16-2009, 08:59 PM
I suppose its a good thing for opposing defenders that LJ prefers to run into a pile and fall down as opposed to being tackled.

Count Zarth
05-16-2009, 09:00 PM
I suppose its a good thing for opposing defenders that LJ prefers to run into a pile and fall down as opposed to being tackled.

FUCK YOU

chiefzilla1501
05-16-2009, 09:03 PM
In a 3-4 regardless end or tackle he's going to be asked to tie up blockers more so than penetrate into the backfield with quickness.

Agreed. I was really hoping Dorsey would get traded, but realistically given his contract, I don't think the Chiefs can. I agree with the move to a 3-4, but the unfortunate reality is that fitting Dorsey into it is like fitting a square peg in a round hole.

Mecca
05-16-2009, 09:05 PM
Yeah 3-4 DEs never penetrate into the backfield with quickness.

Are you being sarcastic with me like I think you are...if so point to me the team that uses it's 3-4 lineman to create pressure and not eat up the blockers.

Shaid
05-16-2009, 09:13 PM
In a 3-4 regardless end or tackle he's going to be asked to tie up blockers more so than penetrate into the backfield with quickness.

exactly.


oh, sorry...


This.

Just Passin' By
05-16-2009, 09:18 PM
Are you being sarcastic with me like I think you are...if so point to me the team that uses it's 3-4 lineman to create pressure and not eat up the blockers.

Seymour has two 8 sack seasons.

Mr. Kotter
05-16-2009, 09:19 PM
http://chat.nfl.com/front/archived_chat/252

Kevin , Springfield MO 04:48 PM ET
Hey Warren, Was it hard for you to transition from a four man front in Tampa to a 3 man front in Oakland? Do you think Glenn Dorsey can do it in K.C.?

Warren Sapp, NFL Network
Glenn Dorsey's in trouble and so is Kansas City for trying to force him. Thank God I only had to do it for 16 games. It's not hard, it just takes away all the advantages you possess. Being fast, quick, agile in the 4-3. The 3-4 doesn't allow your talents to come out.

Joey, Kansas City, MO 05:30 PM ET
Your Opinion on Larry Johnson and how he will do this year and why??

Warren Sapp, NFL Network
I think if Larry Johnson takes in some good quality offseason work, I think he can get 1,700-1,800 yards and double-digit touchdowns. He's a nightmare to tackle.

I never really cared for much for Sapp while he was playing.

Some of the stuff he has said on NFLN since he has retired I agreed with, some of it I thought was way off base.

Not sure here if his comment about Dorsey is him thinking they are playing him at DT or DE???

I'd guess he's buying the "Dorsey at NT" BS....you are hearing. I'm not saying it won't happen---but he better put on 30 lbs or so, with no loss of his "skill set"....or this will be a short-lived experiment. At DE...with the other personnel we have, he could pull it off in a 3-4 IMHO. But there are plenty here, who think he's too short/too short of arms to play DE.

Guess we'll see in a couple of months. :hmmm:

Direckshun
05-16-2009, 09:22 PM
Are you being sarcastic with me like I think you are...if so point to me the team that uses it's 3-4 lineman to create pressure and not eat up the blockers.

I can show you a couple 3-4 teams that have DLmen who penetrate quite a bit.

Count Zarth
05-16-2009, 09:23 PM
I'd guess he's buying the "Dorsey at NT" BS....you are hearing.

He's not. He's comparing himself to Dorsey. Sapp played 3-4 DE for a season in Oakland, and horribly sucked at it.

Mecca
05-16-2009, 09:23 PM
Seymour has two 8 sack seasons.

And who here thinks that Dorsey will ever sniff that? A 3-4 end getting sacks is a rarity, that's the simple point I was making.

OnTheWarpath58
05-16-2009, 09:24 PM
I can show you a couple 3-4 teams that have DLmen who penetrate quite a bit.

Well? We're waiting...

http://www.dcasali.com/images/filmntv/caddyshack_smales_frown.jpg




:D

Mecca
05-16-2009, 09:24 PM
I can show you a couple 3-4 teams that have DLmen who penetrate quite a bit.

Ok Jay Ratliff gets in the backfield as a NT in a 3-4...Seymour gets some sacks and then it's like uhh.

Mecca
05-16-2009, 09:26 PM
And honestly how many of Seymour's sacks come when NE goes to 4 down?

If you have your front 3 try to penetrate when you're in the actual 3-4 look your linebackers are going to get demolished.

OnTheWarpath58
05-16-2009, 09:28 PM
And honestly how many of Seymour's sacks come when NE goes to 4 down?

If you have your front 3 try to penetrate when you're in the actual 3-4 look your linebackers are going to get demolished.

Esto.

Welcome back, BTW.

boogblaster
05-16-2009, 09:35 PM
Dorsey will have to bulk up to play NT .. LJ has to have blockin' to make big yardage ...

Von Dumbass
05-16-2009, 09:38 PM
Seymour has two 8 sack seasons.

The Patriots also play a lot of 4-3.

htismaqe
05-16-2009, 09:38 PM
Are you being sarcastic with me like I think you are...if so point to me the team that uses it's 3-4 lineman to create pressure and not eat up the blockers.

Dallas plays a 1-gap 3-4.

Mecca
05-16-2009, 09:40 PM
Dallas plays a 1-gap 3-4.

And the only one that gets in the backfield with any regularity is Ratliff, no one sees guys like Spears or Canty getting sacks. DeMarcus Ware was the one racking up the numbers.

htismaqe
05-16-2009, 09:41 PM
And the only one that gets in the backfield with any regularity is Ratliff, no one sees guys like Spears or Canty getting sacks. DeMarcus Ware was the one racking up the numbers.

They don't get in the backfield because they're not that great at it.

They have a 1-gap assignment, which means it's NOT their job to tie up blockers. You said to show you a team that doesn't use it's 3-4 linemen to tie up blockers and I just did.

Just Passin' By
05-16-2009, 09:53 PM
The Patriots also play a lot of 4-3.

No, they don't. They are generally a 3-4 team on obvious running downs and they'll use a lot of nickel on other downs. They do use the 4-3, but it's not as if it's a mainstay. The team is a base 3-4, 2 gap, team. On passing downs, Seymour gets after the QB, that's all.

Von Dumbass
05-16-2009, 09:55 PM
No, they don't.

Yes they do. Our new coach says that Denver will be switching using a lot of the 3-4 and the 4-3 because New England had a lot of success with it.

Just Passin' By
05-16-2009, 09:59 PM
Yes they do. Our new coach says that Denver will be switching using a lot of the 3-4 and the 4-3 because New England had a lot of success with it.

Your new coach has Denver switching to a 3-4. He's going to use the 4-3 because your defensive front sucks and he'll need to cover for its problems if it can't stop the run with the guys being conscripted to play the NT. New England is multiple with its defensive fronts, but it's just as likely to go with the "big nickel" as it is to go 4-3. Hell, there are times when they've gone with just 1 or 2 D-linemen, for that matter.

Von Dumbass
05-16-2009, 09:59 PM
Didn't New England run the 4-3 exclusively Beli-cheat's first 3 or 4 years in NE?

Just Passin' By
05-16-2009, 10:13 PM
Didn't New England run the 4-3 exclusively Beli-cheat's first 3 or 4 years in NE?

New England actually tried running the 3-4 early on, but the team didn't have a NT that could get the job done. They had to wait for Ted Washington to become available. If you want to see Patriots fans wince, ask them about the Steve Martin experiment. In the 3-4, you really need to have a quality NT, or you're probably going to get run on all day long. It's why both the Broncos and Chiefs could still look terrible even if most of their moves on the defenses pan out.

xbarretx
05-16-2009, 10:57 PM
just because Sapp wasnt good at it doesnt mean gleen wont as well. all the Dorsey haters better give the man credit when hes proves you guys wrong :clap:

Raised On Riots
05-17-2009, 12:10 AM
Why does the GM get to pick the scheme? Shouldn't that be the Head Coach's call?

"You get me the talent, I make it all happen"?

Raised On Riots
05-17-2009, 12:11 AM
Yes they do. Our new coach says that Denver will be switching using a lot of the 3-4 and the 4-3 because New England had a lot of success with it.

I see by your avatar that Knowshon is an LJ fanboy. How cute.:evil:

DaneMcCloud
05-17-2009, 12:34 AM
They don't get in the backfield because they're not that great at it.

They have a 1-gap assignment, which means it's NOT their job to tie up blockers. You said to show you a team that doesn't use it's 3-4 linemen to tie up blockers and I just did.

Canty must be good at something since the Giants gave him a $7 million per year deal.

Mecca
05-17-2009, 12:48 AM
Canty will probably see time at DT in NY but with a draft pick of Sintim..and some of their other moves the Giants can give 3-4 looks now.

Silock
05-17-2009, 12:58 AM
EVEN IF Dorsey plays the majority of time in the 3-4 and just ties up blockers, if he can penetrate and use his skills on the rare 4-3 switch . . . what's the problem, exactly?

htismaqe
05-17-2009, 05:08 AM
Why does the GM get to pick the scheme? Shouldn't that be the Head Coach's call?

"You get me the talent, I make it all happen"?

I'm sure the head coach wants to run the same scheme as the GM. After all, the GM gets to pick the coach, too.

whoman69
05-17-2009, 06:28 AM
I foresee Dorsey playing end on regular downs, and NT on obvious passing downs with Magee coming in to play end.

milkman
05-17-2009, 06:49 AM
just because Sapp wasnt good at it doesnt mean gleen wont as well. all the Dorsey haters better give the man credit when hes proves you guys wrong :clap:

Who is a Dorsey hater?

shitgoose
05-17-2009, 07:42 AM
**** YOU

Better watch it or I'll spit a drink in your face

RNR
05-17-2009, 07:46 AM
Canty will probably see time at DT in NY but with a draft pick of Sintim..and some of their other moves the Giants can give 3-4 looks now.

Your green dots say you are "almost as cool as Mecca" :spock: I would think it would say "behold I am Mecca" or something along those lines.....anyway carry on

htismaqe
05-17-2009, 09:45 AM
I foresee Dorsey playing end on regular downs, and NT on obvious passing downs with Magee coming in to play end.

They already said Magee would be sliding inside on passing downs. Remember, he was a 4-3 DT in college, just like Dorsey.

B_Ambuehl
05-17-2009, 10:37 AM
People should differentiate what 3-4 scheme they're referring to. There is basically a Philips 3-4 and Parcells 3-4. Parcells and Bellichiks are 2 gap, Phillips is a lot more 1-gap. Seymour got 8 sacks playing a 2 gap D, which is a rarity.

The one we're evolving to is most likely the 2 gap variety like Parcells and Bellichiks.

Count Zarth
05-17-2009, 11:51 AM
They already said Magee would be sliding inside on passing downs. Remember, he was a 4-3 DT in college, just like Dorsey.

Should be interesting to see what our 4-3 pass rush package might be. Magee, Jackson, Hali and Johnston?

Count Zarth
05-17-2009, 11:52 AM
I foresee Dorsey playing end on regular downs, and NT on obvious passing downs with Magee coming in to play end.

They've already said Dorsey isn't starting.

RNR
05-17-2009, 12:45 PM
They've already said Dorsey isn't starting.

Why do you have a picture of Jason Whitlock in your sig??

Count Zarth
05-17-2009, 12:51 PM
Why do you have a picture of Jason Whitlock in your sig??

The better question is why don't you?

RNR
05-17-2009, 12:53 PM
The better question is why don't you?

ROFL not a big fan of him

Tribal Warfare
05-17-2009, 01:15 PM
They've already said Dorsey isn't starting.

provide a link when they stated that?

Count Zarth
05-17-2009, 01:20 PM
provide a link when they stated that?

I can't provide a link to a time. Only websites.

Tribal Warfare
05-17-2009, 01:30 PM
I can't provide a link to a time. Only websites.

I apologize for confusing semantics, but the point still stands

Count Zarth
05-17-2009, 01:35 PM
I apologize for confusing semantics, but the point still stands

Haley said it in a press conference.

Tribal Warfare
05-17-2009, 01:36 PM
Haley said it in a press conference.

link, because I don't remember him versing that.

Count Zarth
05-17-2009, 01:38 PM
KcChiefs.com

Detoxing
05-17-2009, 05:13 PM
I foresee Dorsey playing end on regular downs, and NT on obvious passing downs with Magee coming in to play end.

Wow. That makes more sense than anything anyone else has written in this thread. Has this not been adressed?
Posted via Mobile Device

Detoxing
05-17-2009, 05:15 PM
They already said Magee would be sliding inside on passing downs. Remember, he was a 4-3 DT in college, just like Dorsey.

Oh. I didn't see this.
Posted via Mobile Device

NFL16
05-17-2009, 05:49 PM
KcChiefs.com

What is the date of the press conference?.. you don't expect us to go through every one do you

Count Zarth
05-17-2009, 05:59 PM
What is the date of the press conference?.. you don't expect us to go through every one do you

You expect me to?

Frankie
05-17-2009, 06:01 PM
Ooh, thanks for the LJ quote, Warren. Adding it to my file!

Are you back in lust with LJ AGAIN?!!

Raised On Riots
05-17-2009, 06:02 PM
You expect me to?

We're talking about a society that drives three blocks just to go to the corner store and buy a fucking candy bar; what else do you expect?:D:D:D

Raised On Riots
05-17-2009, 06:03 PM
Are you back in lust with LJ AGAIN?!!

Moreno is. He even adopted #27, so strong is the guy love.:D

Count Zarth
05-17-2009, 06:07 PM
Are you back in lust with LJ AGAIN?!!

I have never strayed from my love.

Over the years I have built up an EPIC file of quotes related solely to Larry Johnson. People talking about him, how awesome he is, how unstoppable he is, etc etc etc.

Someday it will all be put to use. Of the most glorious kind.

Raised On Riots
05-17-2009, 06:10 PM
I have never strayed from my love.

Over the years I have built up an EPIC file of quotes related solely to Larry Johnson. People talking about him, how awesome he is, how unstoppable he is, etc etc etc.

Someday it will all be put to use. Of the most glorious kind.


ROFL

Bitch slappin' ALL THE WAY TO THE 'SHIP!

Count Zarth
05-17-2009, 06:12 PM
This is the best part:

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cbfett81%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"></o:smarttagtype><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]><object classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Vince Costello’s voice lowers to a whisper. Voices often lower to a whisper when the topic is Jim Brown. There was something about the way Jim Brown ran a football that defies words. Players from Brown’s time will call him Superman and Hercules and recall superhuman feats of strength like some time when he dragged 10 mud-covered men over a goal line on a snowy day in <st1:city w:st="on"><st1></st1></st1:city><st1:city w:st="on"><st1>Cleveland</st1>.</st1:city>

Then, often, those players will drop their voices and speak in the hushed tones you hear in church. Vince Costello was Jim Brown’s teammate in <st1:city w:st="on"><st1>Cleveland</st1></st1:city> for nine seasons.

“The kid’s just like him,” Costello whispers. “I never thought I would see anyone run the ball like Jim. But this kid runs the same way, upright, proud. He runs angry, the way Jim used to run. He wants to hurt you. Jim wanted to hurt you.”

Costello’s whisper dives even lower, so now you can barely make out the words. Maybe he’s whispering out of respect. Maybe he cannot believe what he’s saying.

“There will never another Jim Brown,” he whispers. “But Larry Johnson is the closest thing I think I’ll see in my lifetime.”

Frankie
05-17-2009, 06:14 PM
I have never strayed from my love.

Over the years I have built up an EPIC file of quotes related solely to Larry Johnson. People talking about him, how awesome he is, how unstoppable he is, etc etc etc.

Someday it will all be put to use. Of the most glorious kind.

I could have sworn you had a bitter divorce with LJ. I'm too lazy to go hunt down your related anti-LJ posts, but I'm pretty sure you had a bunch.

Count Zarth
05-17-2009, 06:14 PM
I could have sworn you had a bitter divorce with LJ. I'm too lazy to go hunt down your related anti-LJ posts, but I'm pretty sure you had a bunch.

Nope.

Raised On Riots
05-17-2009, 06:17 PM
Maybe he'll get his mojo back.

Frankie
05-17-2009, 06:18 PM
Nope.

OK, again I'm too lazy for this, but the first 5 disparaging quotes from Claythan about LJ fished out by any poster will earn them a nice juicy rep. I'm pretty sure I've seen them.

Raised On Riots
05-17-2009, 06:19 PM
OK, again I'm too lazy for this, but the first 5 disparaging quotes from Claythan about LJ fished out by any poster will earn them a nice juicy rep. I'm pretty sure I've seen them.


You're dreaming. Not gonna' find, did not happen.

Count Zarth
05-17-2009, 06:26 PM
OK, again I'm too lazy for this, but the first 5 disparaging quotes from Claythan about LJ fished out by any poster will earn them a nice juicy rep. I'm pretty sure I've seen them.

One time I said I was disappointed in him. That's about the worst thing I've ever said.

Frankie
05-17-2009, 06:29 PM
One time I said I was disappointed in him. That's about the worst thing I've ever said.

Ooooookay. The offer still stands tho.

Halfcan
05-17-2009, 09:22 PM
It will be a happy day when thug pampers LJ is not a Chief anymore.

LJ is NOT Jim Brown-LJ ran angry because he wanted a new contract period. He has not done shit since-often times running out of bounds.

Holmes was a much better runner, and for being Lots smaller than LJ-a better blocker too.

LJ has no heart at all-the only fire he has is directed at drunk ho's in a bar-either slapping them or spitting on them.

I am surprised he is still on the team at all-I thought Pioli would cut ties with that locker room cancer.

Reerun_KC
05-17-2009, 09:46 PM
It will be a happy day when thug pampers LJ is not a Chief anymore.

LJ is NOT Jim Brown-LJ ran angry because he wanted a new contract period. He has not done shit since-often times running out of bounds.

Holmes was a much better runner, and for being Lots smaller than LJ-a better blocker too.

LJ has no heart at all-the only fire he has is directed at drunk ho's in a bar-either slapping them or spitting on them.

I am surprised he is still on the team at all-I thought Pioli would cut ties with that locker room cancer.

This! :clap:

Frankie
05-18-2009, 08:54 AM
Holmes was a much better runner, and for being Lots smaller than LJ-a better blocker too.

Rep

Jilly
05-18-2009, 09:11 AM
People should differentiate what 3-4 scheme they're referring to. There is basically a Philips 3-4 and Parcells 3-4. Parcells and Bellichiks are 2 gap, Phillips is a lot more 1-gap. Seymour got 8 sacks playing a 2 gap D, which is a rarity.

The one we're evolving to is most likely the 2 gap variety like Parcells and Bellichiks.

Would it be too much to ask for you to explain the difference to me? I know the difference between 3-4 and 4-3...I don't necessarily know what it means to have a 1 gap or a 2 gap?

Count Zarth
05-18-2009, 09:14 AM
Would it be too much to ask for you to explain the difference to me? I know the difference between 3-4 and 4-3...I don't necessarily know what it means to have a 1 gap or a 2 gap?

1-gap defenders are just penetrating up the field for the most part, lining up between offensive linemen. 2-gap defenders are trying to control blockers and let players behind them make the plays, often lining up head-on with offensive linemen, taking the gap on either side depending on where the play is going.

Jilly
05-18-2009, 09:17 AM
1-gap defenders are just penetrating up the field for the most part, lining up between offensive linemen. 2-gap defenders are trying to control blockers and let players behind them make the plays, often lining up head-on with offensive linemen, taking the gap on either side depending on where the play is going.

Thank you. I was headed in that direction, but needed it confirmed.

Jilly
05-18-2009, 09:18 AM
How would a 1 gap work in a 3-4? Wouldn't that leave too much room for the run? Or is it just for a passing play?

Count Zarth
05-18-2009, 09:20 AM
How would a 1 gap work in a 3-4? Wouldn't that leave too much room for the run? Or is it just for a passing play?

1-gap 3-4 defenses are pretty rare. If I'm not mistaken they're often called an "attack" 3-4. The Cowboys sort of run this...

But mostly in a 3-4 it's going to be 2-gap.

You see more 1-gap in 4-3 defenses....Glenn Dorsey was drafted to be a 1-gap defender, get up the field and make plays. Of course last year our moronic coaches had him playing head up on guards trying to play 2-gap.

Smaller, quicker defenders = 1 gap

Bigger, stouter defenders = 2 gap

the Talking Can
05-18-2009, 09:21 AM
married = 1 gap

etc...

Jilly
05-18-2009, 09:23 AM
1-gap 3-4 defenses are pretty rare. If I'm not mistaken they're often called an "attack" 3-4. The Cowboys sort of run this...

But mostly in a 3-4 it's going to be 2-gap.

You see more 1-gap in 4-3 defenses....Glenn Dorsey was drafted to be a 1-gap defender, get up the field and make plays. Of course last year our moronic coaches had him playing head up on guards trying to play 2-gap.

Smaller, quicker defenders = 1 gap

Bigger, stouter defenders = 2 gap

Wasn't he just slower then we expected him to be?

Count Zarth
05-18-2009, 09:25 AM
Wasn't he just slower then we expected him to be?

No. The Chiefs knew what they were getting. Although he did play over his recommended weight last year.

You don't need to be particularly fast to be a 1-gap defensive tackle. Dorsey ran like a 5.1 40-yard dash. It's more about quickness, acceleration, agility, burst off the line.

Jilly
05-18-2009, 09:33 AM
No. The Chiefs knew what they were getting. Although he did play over his recommended weight last year.

You don't need to be particularly fast to be a 1-gap defensive tackle. Dorsey ran like a 5.1 40-yard dash. It's more about quickness, acceleration, agility, burst off the line.

so you're saying it was our coaches and their play calling that made him slower then he was at LSU?

Count Zarth
05-18-2009, 09:37 AM
so you're saying it was our coaches and their play calling that made him slower then he was at LSU?

Dorsey wasn't any slower than he was at LSU, unless the extra weight slowed him down. He was used improperly. God didn't intend for him to butt heads with guards all day. He was intended to get on their outside shoulder and blow past them.

It's sort of like asking Peyton Manning to run the option.

Jilly
05-18-2009, 09:43 AM
Dorsey wasn't any slower than he was at LSU, unless the extra weight slowed him down. He was used improperly. God didn't intend for him to butt heads with guards all day. He was intended to get on their outside shoulder and blow past them.

It's sort of like asking Peyton Manning to run the option.

Thanks for entertaining my questions, Claythan!

Count Zarth
05-18-2009, 09:46 AM
Now you can impress your hubby with football knowledge. ;)

Jilly
05-18-2009, 09:50 AM
Now you can impress your hubby with football knowledge. ;)

I hope he chimes in with something clever here. Because I feel I'm already pretty knowledgeable. I just have questions from time to time.

Count Zarth
05-18-2009, 09:58 AM
I hope he chimes in with something clever here. Because I feel I'm already pretty knowledgeable. I just have questions from time to time.

Yeah but just think of the look he might give you if you're sitting there watching a game and say "Dorsey sucks in this 2-gap defense!"

Jilly
05-18-2009, 10:00 AM
Yeah but just think of the look he might give you if you're sitting there watching a game and say "Dorsey sucks in this 2-gap defense!"

We don't look at each other during games...or speak. It's amazing how much communication happens without those two things.

Frankie
05-18-2009, 01:51 PM
married = 1 gap

etc...

Usually

Frankie
05-18-2009, 01:53 PM
I hope he chimes in with something clever here. Because I feel I'm already pretty knowledgeable. I just have questions from time to time.

Is he a Planeteer?

notorious
05-18-2009, 02:05 PM
married = 1 gap

etc...

Perfection.

HemiEd
05-18-2009, 02:08 PM
I could have sworn you had a bitter divorce with LJ. I'm too lazy to go hunt down your related anti-LJ posts, but I'm pretty sure you had a bunch.

You are confusing LJ with Herm, Clayton was all the way over both sides of the fence on him. Way over.

But when LJ shit the bed, Clayton just laid low. He has been consistent with that obsession.

Amnorix
05-18-2009, 02:17 PM
The Patriots also play a lot of 4-3.

Not since 2002 or so. We've been mostly a 3-4, 2 gap team since 2004. Sure, they use the 4-3 sometimes, but the 34 is the base.

Amnorix
05-18-2009, 02:22 PM
Yes they do. Our new coach says that Denver will be switching using a lot of the 3-4 and the 4-3 because New England had a lot of success with it.

We do play 4-3 sometimes. We somewhat famously played it as a base for the first time all year in the SB game against the Eagles, if I remember correctly.

But since the start of the 2003 season we've been PRIMARILY a 3-4 team.

Amnorix
05-18-2009, 02:23 PM
New England actually tried running the 3-4 early on, but the team didn't have a NT that could get the job done. They had to wait for Ted Washington to become available. If you want to see Patriots fans wince, ask them about the Steve Martin experiment. In the 3-4, you really need to have a quality NT, or you're probably going to get run on all day long. It's why both the Broncos and Chiefs could still look terrible even if most of their moves on the defenses pan out.

QFT.

Amnorix
05-18-2009, 02:34 PM
How would a 1 gap work in a 3-4? Wouldn't that leave too much room for the run? Or is it just for a passing play?

This is your classic 2 gap 3-4.

http://i40.tinypic.com/513odz.jpg

The gap to either side of the center is called the A Gap. The Nose TAckle is responsible for BOTH gaps (i.e. 2 gaps). If the ball is handed off to a RB who goes through either A gap, then the NG is supposed to shut that play down.

Raised On Riots
05-18-2009, 02:47 PM
This is your classic 2 gap 3-4.



The gap to either side of the center is called the A Gap. The Nose TAckle is responsible for BOTH gaps (i.e. 2 gaps). If the ball is handed off to a RB who goes through either A gap, then the NG is supposed to shut that play down.

That was informative. Thank you. And Rep.

Jilly
05-18-2009, 02:56 PM
Is he a Planeteer?

yes

Jilly
05-18-2009, 02:57 PM
This is your classic 2 gap 3-4.

http://i40.tinypic.com/513odz.jpg

The gap to either side of the center is called the A Gap. The Nose TAckle is responsible for BOTH gaps (i.e. 2 gaps). If the ball is handed off to a RB who goes through either A gap, then the NG is supposed to shut that play down.

Thank you.

So, what happens in say, a bootleg or any other roll out play? The CBs go to the inside to cover?

Count Zarth
05-18-2009, 03:04 PM
The corners are always going to be covering their man (if it's man to man). Likely if the offense is running a bootleg against a 3-4 they will have a tight end or fullback assigned to take out the outside linebacker the QB might be rolling towards. If he bites on the play fake (i.e. crashes down) the TE may release and become a receiver, or the TE might block him just long enough for the QB to complete his roll out, and then release into the pattern.

I could be mistaken, but because the linebackers in a 3-4 are so frequently going right after the quarterback, the bootleg can be a risky play against that sort of defense. You're more apt to see straight up play-action.

Amnorix
05-18-2009, 03:25 PM
The corners are always going to be covering their man (if it's man to man). Likely if the offense is running a bootleg against a 3-4 they will have a tight end or fullback assigned to take out the outside linebacker the QB might be rolling towards. If he bites on the play fake (i.e. crashes down) the TE may release and become a receiver, or the TE might block him just long enough for the QB to complete his roll out, and then release into the pattern.

I could be mistaken, but because the linebackers in a 3-4 are so frequently going right after the quarterback, the bootleg can be a risky play against that sort of defense. You're more apt to see straight up play-action.

One of the advantages of the 3-4, in theory at least, is that the offense never knows which linebacker is coming. It could be either of the OLBs. In a 4-3, generally on a pass play it's the 4 down linemen, and you know where they are before the snap.

The Patriots rarely play man-to-man coverage. It's almost invariably either a zone or a modified zone coverage. The design of the Patriots defense, at least, is to stop the run first and then stop the pass. In a zone situation, the DBs have a much better opportunity to see what is going on in the backfield and deal with the competing threats posed by a bootleg.

The first time we faced the Dolphins Wildcat offense last year, we were taken completely by surprise. It was the first time they had played it all year. The 'phins ran wild. Something like 8 plays for 200 yards and 3 TDs or something absurd.

The second time we played them, it was something like 8 plays for 25 yards (3 yards per play) and zero TDs. It was shut down.

The wildcat poses a challenge, but teams like the Patriots tend to do very well as they are a disciplined defense. If everyone runs their assignments properly, then it can be stopped.

Amnorix
05-18-2009, 03:32 PM
Thank you.

So, what happens in say, a bootleg or any other roll out play? The CBs go to the inside to cover?

To answer you directly, as opposed to Clathan...

In general, any type of rollout play against the Patriots becomes a race between the offensive linemen to beat the inside linebackers and safeties to the point of attack. The OLB on the side of the play where the rollout is headed has a VERY SPECIFIC assignment -- turn the play INSIDE. If the OLB gets caught INSIDE, then it can quickly get ugly for the defense.

Thsi is called "keeping containment". Belichick refers to it often. The OLB MUST be strong enough to hold his position or better, and to avoid getting blocked down.

Then it's a race between the inside linebackers and safeties, on the one hand, and the "free" offensive linemen (those not tied up by the defensive linemen) to get to the point of attack. First, the defensive linemen are supposed to stop the running play from going past them at all. If it does, then the ILBs and safeties are supposed to crash down and fill any gaps.

Espeically in training camp, the team works on, and BB talks about endlessly "filling gaps" and working on the front seven "fits."

The 3 defensive linemen and the 4 linebackers are like the pickets in a fence. If they all fill in their gaps properly, there is NO WHERE for the offensive linemen to run.

The 2 gap defense is NOT designed, generally, to get at the RBs behind the line of scrimmage. You see much more of that from attacking linemen like the Steelers and Giants. Patriots defenses are more conservative -- less likely to get a stop behind the LOS, but also less likely to give up any long running plays.

By design, the Pats defense is a "bend but don't break" philosophy, forcing teams to mount extended drives without making a mistake in order to score, and then tightening down as the offense nears the red zone to stop the TD. It's not a high-risk, high-reward strategy.

Jilly
05-18-2009, 03:57 PM
To answer you directly, as opposed to Clathan...

In general, any type of rollout play against the Patriots becomes a race between the offensive linemen to beat the inside linebackers and safeties to the point of attack. The OLB on the side of the play where the rollout is headed has a VERY SPECIFIC assignment -- turn the play INSIDE. If the OLB gets caught INSIDE, then it can quickly get ugly for the defense.

Thsi is called "keeping containment". Belichick refers to it often. The OLB MUST be strong enough to hold his position or better, and to avoid getting blocked down.

Then it's a race between the inside linebackers and safeties, on the one hand, and the "free" offensive linemen (those not tied up by the defensive linemen) to get to the point of attack. First, the defensive linemen are supposed to stop the running play from going past them at all. If it does, then the ILBs and safeties are supposed to crash down and fill any gaps.

Espeically in training camp, the team works on, and BB talks about endlessly "filling gaps" and working on the front seven "fits."

The 3 defensive linemen and the 4 linebackers are like the pickets in a fence. If they all fill in their gaps properly, there is NO WHERE for the offensive linemen to run.

The 2 gap defense is NOT designed, generally, to get at the RBs behind the line of scrimmage. You see much more of that from attacking linemen like the Steelers and Giants. Patriots defenses are more conservative -- less likely to get a stop behind the LOS, but also less likely to give up any long running plays.

By design, the Pats defense is a "bend but don't break" philosophy, forcing teams to mount extended drives without making a mistake in order to score, and then tightening down as the offense nears the red zone to stop the TD. It's not a high-risk, high-reward strategy.

So, it seems like Dorsey would be great at this type of defense, in spite of the criticisms, right? As long as he sticks to his position.

Count Zarth
05-18-2009, 03:59 PM
So, it seems like Dorsey would be great at this type of defense, in spite of the criticisms, right? As long as he sticks to his position.

No, not really. Dorsey's talent is attacking up the field. He's supposed to be a 1-gapper.

Jilly
05-18-2009, 04:05 PM
No, not really. Dorsey's talent is attacking up the field. He's supposed to be a 1-gapper.

Which takes me back to my original thought....he never was all that good at being a 1 gapper last year,.....you said it was the coaches and their play calling....but yet they played a 4-3 which he was supposedly good at? So, maybe these coaches, this defense, and their play calling will work better for him?

Mecca
05-18-2009, 04:06 PM
NE in my view will show more 4-3 this year than they have in the past...with their pick of Brace in any obvious run down they can go to a giant 4 man line that would be nearly impossible to run on.

Mecca
05-18-2009, 04:07 PM
Which takes me back to my original thought....he never was all that good at being a 1 gapper last year,.....you said it was the coaches and their play calling....but yet they played a 4-3 which he was supposedly good at? So, maybe these coaches, this defense, and their play calling will work better for him?

He wasn't being used as a 1 gapper last year, they had him playing heavy and straight up over a guard.

I'll honestly be surprised if he succeeds in a 3-4 everything it puts focus on are things he was never known for.

kysirsoze
05-18-2009, 04:08 PM
Joey, Kansas City, MO 05:30 PM ET
Your Opinion on Larry Johnson and how he will do this year and why??

Warren Sapp, NFL Network
I think if Larry Johnson takes in some good quality offseason work, I think he can get 1,700-1,800 yards and double-digit touchdowns. He's a nightmare to tackle.

Maybe when Sapp was still playing. I doubt he haunts anybody's dreams nowadays. (Except possibly Claythan's);)

Jilly
05-18-2009, 04:08 PM
He wasn't being used as a 1 gapper last year, they had him playing heavy and straight up over a guard.

I'll honestly be surprised if he succeeds in a 3-4 everything it puts focus on are things he was never known for.

Well, I guess whether we like it or not, we're finding out!

Red Beans
05-18-2009, 06:57 PM
I know the post has gone light years away from this but the bottom line is Sapp is a fat ass loud mouth eater of swiss rolls....

Frankie
05-18-2009, 08:02 PM
You are confusing LJ with Herm, Clayton was all the way over both sides of the fence on him. Way over.

But when LJ shit the bed, Clayton just laid low. He has been consistent with that obsession.

Thanks. I stand corrected.

Frankie
05-18-2009, 08:04 PM
yes

Which?

Amnorix
05-19-2009, 08:56 AM
So, it seems like Dorsey would be great at this type of defense, in spite of the criticisms, right? As long as he sticks to his position.

It depends. Defensive Linemen don't get alot of love in a 3-4 two gap system. Generally speaking their stats will suffer compared to a 1 gapper, who has far more opportunity to get into the backfield for sacks or run stops before the play even has much of a chance to develop.

Alot of people thought Vince Wilfork was wasted in a two gap style, as he is massive AND pretty quick in a short burst. But he's also a superb two gapper, which speaks to his strength.

I can't speak for Dorsey, specifically, but if he has the size/strength to perform well as a 3-4 DE, then his stats may suffer, but the defense may be fine with him there.

Fans have alot more visibility and love for a guy who compiles 10 sacks in a noisy way than for a guy who does his job, holds the point of attack, but doesn't get many sacks. The Ty Warrens of the world...

Amnorix
05-19-2009, 08:58 AM
He wasn't being used as a 1 gapper last year, they had him playing heavy and straight up over a guard.

I'll honestly be surprised if he succeeds in a 3-4 everything it puts focus on are things he was never known for.

I know diddily about Dorsey, so I looked him up. at 6'1" and 297, he's both shorter and a bit lighter than you'd like for a 3-4 DE. That's more of a 4-3 DE size.

If he has good lower body strength and either or both of good hands and/or long arms, however, he might be able to do well as a 3-4 DE.

He's 30 pounds too light to be a NG. Not sure if his frame could handle that much more bulk.

Jilly
05-19-2009, 09:05 AM
Which?

Sully

Jilly
05-19-2009, 09:14 AM
It depends. Defensive Linemen don't get alot of love in a 3-4 two gap system. Generally speaking their stats will suffer compared to a 1 gapper, who has far more opportunity to get into the backfield for sacks or run stops before the play even has much of a chance to develop.

Alot of people thought Vince Wilfork was wasted in a two gap style, as he is massive AND pretty quick in a short burst. But he's also a superb two gapper, which speaks to his strength.

I can't speak for Dorsey, specifically, but if he has the size/strength to perform well as a 3-4 DE, then his stats may suffer, but the defense may be fine with him there.

Fans have alot more visibility and love for a guy who compiles 10 sacks in a noisy way than for a guy who does his job, holds the point of attack, but doesn't get many sacks. The Ty Warrens of the world...

Sully and I talked about this last night.....we realized my confusion was that I thought Dorsey was supposed to be explosive in attacking the QB, when his specialty was collapsing the pocket. It all makes a lot more sense to me now that I have this differential clarified.

But, like I told Sully, you can't build a defense around 1 player, right? I think great players end up great because they are versatile in their talents. Let's hope Dorsey is that way.

Frankie
05-19-2009, 09:18 AM
Sully

Sully and Jilly. Sounds like a match made in heaven.

Jilly
05-19-2009, 09:21 AM
Sully and Jilly. Sounds like a match made in heaven.

ROFL Depends on what story you get

milkman
05-19-2009, 12:06 PM
But, like I told Sully, you can't build a defense around 1 player, right? I think great players end up great because they are versatile in their talents.

That is not true.

DT was as far from versatile as one could be.

Jilly
05-19-2009, 12:26 PM
That is not true.

DT was as far from versatile as one could be.

I think it's true. You're statement is just about as backed up as mine.

milkman
05-19-2009, 12:43 PM
I think it's true. You're statement is just about as backed up as mine.

How do you figure?
You said great players are great because they are versatile.
DT is an example of the fallacy of that statement.

Jim Brown, Jerry Rice, Dwight Freeny, Randy Moss are other examples.

Versatility is a great attribute, and can lead to greatness, but it is not necessary to achieve greatness.

Jilly
05-19-2009, 01:02 PM
How do you figure?
You said great players are great because they are versatile.
DT is an example of the fallacy of that statement.

Jim Brown, Jerry Rice, Dwight Freeny, Randy Moss are other examples.

Versatility is a great attribute, and can lead to greatness, but it is not necessary to achieve greatness.

really? this is turning into an argument on what constitutes greatness?

Example: A person can play the flute. They see the notes on the page, they play them all, in rhythm, and have great tone. But what makes them a GREAT player is their ability to put as much passion in Mozart as they would say, Faure. Granted, they like playing Mozart better, it makes more sense to them, but wouldn't it suck if that's all they played?

milkman
05-19-2009, 01:09 PM
really? this is turning into an argument on what constitutes greatness?

Example: A person can play the flute. They see the notes on the page, they play them all, in rhythm, and have great tone. But what makes them a GREAT player is their ability to put as much passion in Mozart as they would say, Faure. Granted, they like playing Mozart better, it makes more sense to them, but wouldn't it suck if that's all they played?

JFC, you are going to try to use music to support your patently false statement about football.

First I don't give a rat's ass about fucking music.

Second, I provided an example to support my claim that you are wrong.

Third, I provided other examples that prove you're wrong.

But clearly, you can't admit you're wrong.

Jilly
05-19-2009, 01:18 PM
JFC, you are going to try to use music to support your patently false statement about football.

First I don't give a rat's ass about ****ing music.

Second, I provided an example to support my claim that you are wrong.

Third, I provided other examples that prove you're wrong.

But clearly, you can't admit you're wrong.


yes, point proven. You're such a football god.

milkman
05-19-2009, 01:20 PM
yes, point proven. You're such a football god.

No, I'm not a football god, you're just a typical bitch that can't admit it when she's wrong.

Jilly
05-19-2009, 01:21 PM
No, I'm not a football god, you're just a typical bitch that can't admit it when she's wrong.

really? you're calling me a bitch? are you serious?

Count Zarth
05-19-2009, 01:24 PM
Jilly, he is rough, but he is right. Thomas was fairly one-dimensional. All he could do was rush the passer. The Chiefs yanked him off the field in the AFC Championship game once because the Bills were running right at him.

Jilly
05-19-2009, 01:27 PM
JFC, you are going to try to use music to support your patently false statement about football.

First I don't give a rat's ass about ****ing music.

Second, I provided an example to support my claim that you are wrong.

Third, I provided other examples that prove you're wrong.

But clearly, you can't admit you're wrong.


So, my argument was that, in case it wasn't clear, which I will go ahead and say it wasn't.....I believe for a player to be GREAT means they should be flexible, able to adapt. Yes, they still are a _______ (whatever position) and still are good at being a __________ (whatever position) , but shouldn't they be able to play that position, in a different defense, with the same greatness?

I don't feel like what I'm saying is totally out of line. And to be honest, I'm just trying to be a part of the discussion. I'm wrong 50% of the time and I know that, but I don't feel like I'm a total idiot for believing this.

Count Zarth
05-19-2009, 01:29 PM
Like the thread says, Sapp couldn't play 3-4 DE. He's going to the HOF.

Buehler445
05-19-2009, 01:29 PM
I gotta go with milkman. You don't NECESSARILY have to be versatile to be great.

Most QBs stick with one system. IIRC, Joe Montana was WCO only, and it doesn't preclude him from being great.

You do have a point that versatility can make one great, like Adalius Thomas, who I would argue would not be great without the versatility, but it is not a requirement.
Posted via Mobile Device

Katipan
05-19-2009, 01:30 PM
I suppose you can be GREAT at ONE thing.

Count Zarth
05-19-2009, 01:31 PM
I suppose you can be GREAT at ONE thing.

Like sex?

milkman
05-19-2009, 01:31 PM
really? you're calling me a bitch? are you serious?

I don't pull punches.

I don't take passive-aggressive sideswipes.

I say what I think.

Sully
05-19-2009, 01:32 PM
LT and DT had one skill. And it was good enough to make them HoFers and all time greats.

Michael Vick and Vince Young have one skill, and it isn't nearly enough to make them even good.

So it depends on the player. Rare players are good enough to dominate just by doing one thing extremely well. Anyone wanna argue that Dorsey is one of those rare athletes?

Jilly
05-19-2009, 01:33 PM
I don't pull punches.

I don't take passive-aggressive sideswipes.

I say what I think.

I think it's bullshit that you called me a bitch for having an opinion. That's what I think.

And, apparently, I'm wrong. And I can admit that. But have a discussion with me, don't just call me a bitch because I'm trying to make an informed decision.

Buehler445
05-19-2009, 01:33 PM
Anyone wanna argue that Dorsey is one of those rare athletes?

No I do not.
Posted via Mobile Device

Count Zarth
05-19-2009, 01:34 PM
Damn, milkman is so hostile towards women!

Katipan
05-19-2009, 01:35 PM
Like sex?

No. You'd have to pick a certain position and defensive scheme.

milkman
05-19-2009, 01:37 PM
I think it's bullshit that you called me a bitch for having an opinion. That's what I think.

And, apparently, I'm wrong. And I can admit that. But have a discussion with me, don't just call me a bitch because I'm trying to make an informed decision.

I didn't call you a bitch because you have an opinion, and I will discuss that opinion.

However, the "you're a football god" bullshit will get you called a bitch.

Sully
05-19-2009, 01:37 PM
No I do not.
Posted via Mobile Device

Me neither. So to Jilly's original point... There's no sense building a defense around him. He may be way above average in a 4-3, but A) we don't know, and B) if the coach believes in some form of 3-4, why wait and see with a guy like that? BTW, all this is coming from a huge Dorsey fan.

Jilly
05-19-2009, 01:38 PM
I didn't call you a bitch because you have an opinion, and I will discuss that opinion.

However, the "you're a football god" bullshit will get you called a bitch.

ok you're not a football god.....but come on..... at least admit you don't know EVERYTHING there is to know, right? ;)

Sully
05-19-2009, 01:38 PM
Damn, milkman is so hostile towards women!

He played the Mecca card early in this one.

xbarretx
05-19-2009, 01:43 PM
He played the Mecca card early in this one.

Rep LMAO ROFL

milkman
05-19-2009, 01:43 PM
ok you're not a football god.....but come on..... at least admit you don't know EVERYTHING there is to know, right? ;)

I am far from the most knowledgeble fan on this site.

I've learned a lot from many posters here.

DeezNutz
05-19-2009, 01:44 PM
I am far from the most knowledgeble fan on this site.

I've learned a lot from many posters here.

You're welcome.

Buehler445
05-19-2009, 01:47 PM
Posted via Mobile Device

milkman
05-19-2009, 01:49 PM
Posted via Mobile Device

Now that right there is downright insightful.

Buehler445
05-19-2009, 01:51 PM
Me neither. So to Jilly's original point... There's no sense building a defense around him. He may be way above average in a 4-3, but A) we don't know, and B) if the coach believes in some form of 3-4, why wait and see with a guy like that? BTW, all this is coming from a huge Dorsey fan.

I agree. Wholeheartedly.

However it is disappointing that we spent an 5 overall pick on a guy that "may" be "OK" in our system.

Honestly, I hope the fuck he becomes a BAMF. We don't have enough of those. But I have tempered enthusiasm.
Posted via Mobile Device

Katipan
05-19-2009, 01:51 PM
Posted via Mobile Device

Typical man.

Sully
05-19-2009, 01:54 PM
I agree. Wholeheartedly.

However it is disappointing that we spent an 5 overall pick on a guy that "may" be "OK" in our system.

Honestly, I hope the fuck he becomes a BAMF. We don't have enough of those. But I have tempered enthusiasm.
Posted via Mobile Device

I hope so, too.
I love the guy. I've seen him do too many good things, in college, and even last year, to give up on him. But it seems he will become a fringe guy, stats-wise.

Plus, he seems like a GREAT guy. A good guy to have on the team.

Buehler445
05-19-2009, 01:54 PM
Now that right there is downright insightful.

FUCK. On this GD thing the button you push to go back to the lounge is right by the Quick Reply Button and since it has that "posted via mobile device" on there, the post is never empty. End result, if you accidentially click the wrong button, it's going to post.

Bottom line: Buehler445=FAIL
Posted via Mobile Device

milkman
05-19-2009, 01:56 PM
****. On this GD thing the button you push to go back to the lounge is right by the Quick Reply Button and since it has that "posted via mobile device" on there, the post is never empty. End result, if you accidentially click the wrong button, it's going to post.

Bottom line: Buehler445=FAIL
Posted via Mobile Device

No problem.

I've been pushing the wrong buttons for 50 years.

Sully
05-19-2009, 01:58 PM
FUCK. On this GD thing the button you push to go back to the lounge is right by the Quick Reply Button and since it has that "posted via mobile device" on there, the post is never empty. End result, if you accidentially click the wrong button, it's going to post.

Bottom line: Buehler445=FAIL
Posted via Mobile Device

Stupid Bitch.

Buehler445
05-19-2009, 02:01 PM
Stupid Bitch.

Eh?
Posted via Mobile Device

DeezNutz
05-19-2009, 02:04 PM
Stupid Bitch.

Can't you just have a discussion with him? He might be in the wrong, and I'm sure he'd be willing to admit it, but at least don't allow this to degenerate into name calling.

Sully
05-19-2009, 02:12 PM
Can't you just have a discussion with him? He might be in the wrong, and I'm sure he'd be willing to admit it, but at least don't allow this to degenerate into name calling.

ROFL

Buehler445
05-19-2009, 02:21 PM
ROFL

Somebody (*ahem* Sully) is sleeping in the doghouse tonight.
Posted via Mobile Device

DeezNutz
05-19-2009, 02:25 PM
Somebody (*ahem* Sully) is sleeping in the doghouse tonight.
Posted via Mobile Device

At least he won't have to see any fucking ketchup.

Jilly
05-19-2009, 02:39 PM
WTF is WRONG WITH KETCHUP?

Amnorix
05-20-2009, 02:57 PM
NE in my view will show more 4-3 this year than they have in the past...with their pick of Brace in any obvious run down they can go to a giant 4 man line that would be nearly impossible to run on.

Well, "obvious run downs" are pretty infrequent. I agree that our bulk goal line package might be the biggest in football. Wilfork/Brace/Seymour/Warren is hellacious to move.

If we show more 4-3, it will be because Jarvis Green is a better pass rusher than any of our 3-4 OLBs, and that will be a real problem if that's the case.

Amnorix
05-20-2009, 02:59 PM
No, I'm not a football god, you're just a typical bitch that can't admit it when she's wrong.


:eek:

http://www.drugrehabamerica.net/img/valium5pil.jpg

Amnorix
05-20-2009, 03:01 PM
Jilly, he is rough, but he is right. Thomas was fairly one-dimensional. All he could do was rush the passer. The Chiefs yanked him off the field in the AFC Championship game once because the Bills were running right at him.

He's right that you CAN be great even if one dimensional, but usually the path to greatness is alot easier if you're really damn good at everything.

That's especially true of front 7 defensive players. To be considered great, you should be great at both. If not, then you really better be about the best EVER at whatever it is you're great at, to balance off being average at the rest.

And I wouldn't take DT as the best ever front 7 player. Not even close. And taht's one reason why.

Amnorix
05-20-2009, 03:10 PM
LT and DT had one skill. And it was good enough to make them HoFers and all time greats.

LT had one skill? You're wrong. LT was extremely good against the run also.

BB showed film one of LT showing how great he was at a number of things. One clip I remember in particular is him flattening out down the LOS and tackling the RB before he slipped through the hole htat had been created for him on the RIGHT side of the offense (when LT played on the offensive left).

DT had one skill. LT was by far the better player, because he was as good at rushing the passer, and was also very good at everything else. LT was probably the greatest LB ever because of his total package of skills.

So it depends on the player. Rare players are good enough to dominate just by doing one thing extremely well. Anyone wanna argue that Dorsey is one of those rare athletes?

This part I agree with.

Tribal Warfare
05-20-2009, 03:32 PM
e. LT was probably the greatest LB ever because of his total package of skills.





It may sound a little "homerish" but that designation could go to Bobby Bell the 1st LT.

milkman
05-20-2009, 03:44 PM
It may sound a little "homerish" but that designation could go to Bobby Bell the 1st LT.

It isnt homeristic.
Bobby Bell was a better player.

Most forget how great he really was.
The most complete LB ever.

Amnorix
05-20-2009, 03:47 PM
It may sound a little "homerish" but that designation could go to Bobby Bell the 1st LT.

Just a little homerish I would say. ;)

milkman
05-20-2009, 03:57 PM
Just a little homerish I would say. ;)

No it isn't.

Bell was every bit as good as LT as a pass rusher, and better as both a run defender and in pass coverage.

The only reason that LT is remembered is because he was asked to rush the passer more than Bell, and sacks weren't a stat in Bell's day.

But he is thought to have over 80 sacks in his career, and I highly doubt that he rushed the passer 1 time for every 4 times that LT did.

Count Zarth
05-20-2009, 03:58 PM
No it isn't.

Bell was every bit as good as LT as a pass rusher, and better as both a run defender and in pass coverage.

The only reason that LT is remembered is because he was asked to rush the passer more than Bell, and sacks weren't a stat in Bell's day.

But he is thought to have over 80 sacks in his career, and I highly doubt that he rushed the passer 1 time for every 4 times that LT did.

Put Bell on a mega-market team in the comparatively media-saturated 80s and he'd have been as big as LT.

Amnorix
05-20-2009, 04:09 PM
No it isn't.

Bell was every bit as good as LT as a pass rusher, and better as both a run defender and in pass coverage.

The only reason that LT is remembered is because he was asked to rush the passer more than Bell, and sacks weren't a stat in Bell's day.

But he is thought to have over 80 sacks in his career, and I highly doubt that he rushed the passer 1 time for every 4 times that LT did.

:shrug: I won't pretend that I'm old enough to have seen him play, but I haven't heard him listed at the very top of linebackers in most "all time" NFL teams and the like.

milkman
05-20-2009, 04:29 PM
:shrug: I won't pretend that I'm old enough to have seen him play, but I haven't heard him listed at the very top of linebackers in most "all time" NFL teams and the like.

Because he was in the AFL for much of his career and was overshadowed by one of the very best MLBs to ever play the game in Willie Lanier.

If, however, sacks had been a stat in his day, and he had been used in the same way as LT, then he would have been the one overshadowing Willie, and I say this as the biggest Willie Lanier fan on this board, my favorite all time player.

But the fact is, having watched both, if I had to choose between Bobby Bell or LT to build around, I'm takin Bobby, and it wouldn't take me more than a second to decide.

Count Zarth
05-20-2009, 04:31 PM
Bobby Bell didn't do coke, either.

Amnorix
05-20-2009, 04:39 PM
Because he was in the AFL for much of his career and was overshadowed by one of the very best MLBs to ever play the game in Willie Lanier.

If, however, sacks had been a stat in his day, and he had been used in the same way as LT, then he would have been the one overshadowing Willie, and I say this as the biggest Willie Lanier fan on this board, my favorite all time player.

But the fact is, having watched both, if I had to choose between Bobby Bell or LT to build around, I'm takin Bobby, and it wouldn't take me more than a second to decide.

:shrug: Get a non-Chiefs fan to weigh in and I'll start listening.

Not trying to be a jerk, but homerism is rampant everywhere, and I'm guilty of it too. I never saw Bell play, but I've hardly ever heard him held in the type of reverence you describe. Maybe he was all that, but I'd believe it alot mroe if I heard it from an old-time NFL player or whatever.

milkman
05-20-2009, 04:47 PM
:shrug: Get a non-Chiefs fan to weigh in and I'll start listening.

Not trying to be a jerk, but homerism is rampant everywhere, and I'm guilty of it too. I never saw Bell play, but I've hardly ever heard him held in the type of reverence you describe. Maybe he was all that, but I'd believe it alot mroe if I heard it from an old-time NFL player or whatever.

FTR, I have heard John Clayton discuss Bell in much the same way as I have.

As for me, I don't think that many would call me a homer.

Buehler445
05-20-2009, 05:29 PM
:shrug: Get a non-Chiefs fan to weigh in and I'll start listening.

Not trying to be a jerk, but homerism is rampant everywhere, and I'm guilty of it too. I never saw Bell play, but I've hardly ever heard him held in the type of reverence you describe. Maybe he was all that, but I'd believe it alot mroe if I heard it from an old-time NFL player or whatever.

milkman isn't much of a homer. For years he has had Bobby Bell as one of the best ever, so it isn't a new development either.

Plus he's old enough to have been a rational thinking adult when Bell played :D.

Really though, he hasn't ever though TG was one of the all time greats. Shit, even most of you guys think he's an all time great! He's been very candid about Green and Holmes and especially LJ.

I wouldn't call milkman a homer.

Sully
05-20-2009, 05:34 PM
LT had one skill? You're wrong. LT was extremely good against the run also.

BB showed film one of LT showing how great he was at a number of things. One clip I remember in particular is him flattening out down the LOS and tackling the RB before he slipped through the hole htat had been created for him on the RIGHT side of the offense (when LT played on the offensive left).

DT had one skill. LT was by far the better player, because he was as good at rushing the passer, and was also very good at everything else. LT was probably the greatest LB ever because of his total package of skills.



This part I agree with.I'll defer to you on that. I didn't have nearly the exposure to LT as DT.

Frankie
05-21-2009, 10:17 AM
ROFL Depends on what story you get

Oh I bet it's Sulleo and Jilliet.

OctoberFart
05-21-2009, 12:41 PM
He's not. He's comparing himself to Dorsey. Sapp played 3-4 DE for a season in Oakland, and horribly sucked at it.

Problem is in your lack of football knowledge. In Oakland Sapp was wasted in a 2 gap scheme which was a complete waste of his strengths. Clancy P plays more of a 30/4-3 under group with 3-4 players and is more of a 1 gap penetrating scheme. Dorsey could fit in that scheme much better than a 2 gap 3-4.