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View Full Version : General Politics A hero to his party


RedNeckRaider
05-17-2009, 09:33 AM
I am middle of the road leaning to the right. I came to the conclusion quite awhile ago there is not a party that cares or represents me. The right is a greed driven war profiteering group that hide behind bible belt facades. The left is a soulless group of wack jobs who sold out the working man years ago. of the two I find the left the worse of the two evils. Here is a tribute to one of their heroes.

http://www.boston.com/news/specials/kennedy/chapter3/

mlyonsd
05-17-2009, 10:16 AM
Why do you hate people with cancer?

Nightwish
05-17-2009, 10:22 AM
I am middle of the road leaning to the right. I came to the conclusion quite awhile ago there is not a party that cares or represents me. The right is a greed driven war profiteering group that hide behind bible belt facades. The left is a soulless group of wack jobs who sold out the working man years ago. of the two I find the left the worse of the two evils.
I agree with pretty much all of this, except your final conclusion about which is the greater of two evils. I also lean right (in terms of what the right actually is supposed to be about - smaller government and states' rights, not the blind uber-conservativism that it has warped into nowadays), but I've found that they're an equally soulless group of whack jobs who have sold out to the military industrial machine and big business. Given the choice between selling out to all that, and selling out to the working man, I find the latter at least a bit more honorable, since it is the working man that makes this country run.

mlyonsd
05-17-2009, 10:25 AM
I agree with pretty much all of this, except your final conclusion about which is the greater of two evils. I also lean right (in terms of what the right actually is supposed to be about - smaller government and states' rights, not the blind uber-conservativism that it has warped into nowadays), but I've found that they're an equally soulless group of whack jobs who have sold out to the military industrial machine and big business. Given the choice between selling out to all that, and selling out to the working man, I find the latter at least a bit more honorable, since it is the working man that makes this country run.

I think you missed his point about the working man.

RedNeckRaider
05-17-2009, 10:30 AM
I agree with pretty much all of this, except your final conclusion about which is the greater of two evils. I also lean right (in terms of what the right actually is supposed to be about - smaller government and states' rights, not the blind uber-conservativism that it has warped into nowadays), but I've found that they're an equally soulless group of whack jobs who have sold out to the military industrial machine and big business. Given the choice between selling out to all that, and selling out to the working man, I find the latter at least a bit more honorable, since it is the working man that makes this country run.

I do not believe the left gives two shits about the working man. They sold out the "working class" a long time ago. They now look to tax those who are paying their own way to bail out those who do little to improve themselves

RedNeckRaider
05-17-2009, 10:32 AM
Why do you hate people with cancer?
Just cowards who leave women to die and hide behind the power of their name who have cancer. :)

Nightwish
05-17-2009, 10:33 AM
I do not believe the left gives two shits about the working man. They sold out the "working class" a long time ago. They now look to tax those who are paying their own way to bail out those who do little to improve themselves
Oops, sorry, I misread your post. I thought it read, "sold out to the working man." In that respect, you may be right, and in that sense, both sides are equally despicable, they've both sold out the common man. I still find the modern right wing to be slightly the worse of two evils, though. However, I will give them this - they don't even pretend to care about the common man, so in that respect, they are a tad more honest than the left.

banyon
05-17-2009, 10:36 AM
What's with all the Chappaquidick crap lately? I guess it speaks volumes about the lack of a coherent party or message when people are obsessed with something that happened 40 years ago but in the same day want to tell other people "you can't talk about Bush anymore, that page has been turned".

How many people go around wringing their hands about Watergate or Iran Contra decades after the fact?

banyon
05-17-2009, 10:38 AM
Where's the outrage over Laura Bush killing that guy with her car?

RedNeckRaider
05-17-2009, 11:07 AM
Where's the outrage over Laura Bush killing that guy with her car?

What elected office does she hold? What party prades her around as some kind of saint? As far as Watergate lets see charges brought people jailed a President removed from office. Two months suspended sentence for killing a woman and held in great respect by the Dems........yeah I can see how these things could be confused.

banyon
05-17-2009, 11:09 AM
What elected office does she hold? What party prades her around as some kind of saint? As far as Watergate lets see charges brought people jailed a President removed from office. Two months suspended sentence for killing a woman and held in great respect by the Dems........yeah I can see how these things could be confused.

I don't care about it, but it has about the same relevance to the current status of either party.

Nightwish
05-17-2009, 11:19 AM
What elected office does she hold? What party prades her around as some kind of saint?
It wasn't so long ago that she was being touted as a possible GOP presidential hopeful, along with Elizabeth Dole, to rival the popularity of Hillary Clinton (though they dropped her like a lead weight when Hillary lost the nomination).

As far as Watergate lets see charges brought people jailed a President removed from office.
And who is still harping about it today?

Two months suspended sentence for killing a woman and held in great respect by the Dems........yeah I can see how these things could be confused.
You've had forty years to get over it. It's time you started.

BucEyedPea
05-17-2009, 11:38 AM
I lean toward the Constitution which retrains central power.

penchief
05-17-2009, 11:44 AM
The left is a soulless group of wack jobs who sold out the working man years ago.

Are you ****ing kidding me? The left sold out the working man? The right has made it its mission to **** over the working man for the last thirty years. It has been right wing corpo-republican policies that have killed pensions and benefits, made access to health care and education more and more out of reach, fought against safe and clean environments, pushed down wages, shipped jobs overseas, and allowed the country to crumble around us while the rich got richer.

The republican right may have paid lip service to the working man's taxes but the only taxes they cared about saving was the top two percent and corporate taxes. Making a base appeal to working families' pocket books in such an oversimplified manner has never been anything more than a ploy designed to get working families to vote against their own interests. Those corpo-republican tax cuts never amounted to anything for working families. Selling massive tax cuts for corporations and the top two percent was made possible by masking it in working-man rhetoric.

That has been proven by the fact that Obama's tax cuts for the middle and working classes have affected their paycheckes ten times more positively than any tax cut that Bush or Reagan had ever enacted. All The republican tax cuts did was make the rich richer while pulling the rug out from under our country's infrastructure (the general welfare).

It was right wing policies that allowed the huge oil companies and Wall Street to manipulate the market and gouge the working man. Right wing policies allowed the predatory business practices that range from usury, phone scams, to the massive fraud that was perpetrated by Wall Street. It was the right wing that pushed for the massive across-the-board deregulation that has ultimately left the working man holding the bag for the devestation left behind by those policies.

It is right wing policies that have taken the working man's tax money and shoveled it hand over fist into bloated corporate welfare programs and the military industrial complex.

All of these things the left has opposed. The left has been ostracized by the right over their stances on labor protections, environmental protections, equal access to health care and education, and minimum wage legislation. The left has been bashed for advocating regulations that prevent fruad and abuse, gouging, and market manipulation designed to get rich quick off the backs of the working man.

The left has been mocked ever since the so called "Reagan Revolution" began because of it's stances in support of the working man and you want to believe the corporate media's rhetoric that it is the right who has the working man's best interests more at heart? And only because of one single misrepresented issue? The tax issue is a big lie that the right has successfully sold and the corporate media has perpetuated. The fact that Obama's tax cuts have benefited working families far more than any republican tax cut should be enough proof of that.

You can go on believing the right-wing's propaganda but the proof is in the pudding. All one has to done is take a quick gander at the historical facts. Or just look at the stances taken by those on this board who have represented the philosophies of the left and the right.

RedNeckRaider
05-17-2009, 12:21 PM
It wasn't so long ago that she was being touted as a possible GOP presidential hopeful, along with Elizabeth Dole, to rival the popularity of Hillary Clinton (though they dropped her like a lead weight when Hillary lost the nomination).


And who is still harping about it today?


You've had forty years to get over it. It's time you started.

Again what elected office does she hold?

I only replied to the poster who brought it up.

The left has had forty years to seperate themselves from him instead they treat him like a saint

Nightwish
05-17-2009, 12:32 PM
The left has had forty years to seperate themselves from him instead they treat him like a saint
Do you really want us to post a list of the corrupt people the right has continued to prop up as paragons of their order? Shall we start with Ted Stevens, Larry Craig, and ... ahem ... Carrie Prejean?

RedNeckRaider
05-17-2009, 12:42 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me? The left sold out the working man? The right has made it its mission to **** over the working man for the last thirty years. It has been right wing corpo-republican policies that have killed pensions and benefits, made access to health care and education more and more out of reach, fought against safe and clean environments, pushed down wages, shipped jobs overseas, and allowed the country to crumble around us while the rich got richer.

The republican right may have paid lip service to the working man's taxes but the only taxes they cared about saving was the top two percent and corporate taxes. Making a base appeal to working families' pocket books in such an oversimplified manner has never been anything more than a ploy designed to get working families to vote against their own interests. Those corpo-republican tax cuts never amounted to anything for working families. Selling massive tax cuts for corporations and the top two percent was made possible by masking it in working-man rhetoric.

That has been proven by the fact that Obama's tax cuts for the middle and working classes have affected their paycheckes ten times more positively than any tax cut that Bush or Reagan had ever enacted. All The republican tax cuts did was make the rich richer while pulling the rug out from under our country's infrastructure (the general welfare).

It was right wing policies that allowed the huge oil companies and Wall Street to manipulate the market and gouge the working man. Right wing policies allowed the predatory business practices that range from usury, phone scams, to the massive fraud that was perpetrated by Wall Street. It was the right wing that pushed for the massive across-the-board deregulation that has ultimately left the working man holding the bag for the devestation left behind by those policies.

It is right wing policies that have taken the working man's tax money and shoveled it hand over fist into bloated corporate welfare programs and the military industrial complex.

All of these things the left has opposed. The left has been ostracized by the right over their stances on labor protections, environmental protections, equal access to health care and education, and minimum wage legislation. The left has been bashed for advocating regulations that prevent fruad and abuse, gouging, and market manipulation designed to get rich quick off the backs of the working man.

The left has been mocked ever since the so called "Reagan Revolution" began because of it's stances in support of the working man and you want to believe the corporate media's rhetoric that it is the right who has the working man's best interests more at heart? And only because of one single misrepresented issue? The tax issue is a big lie that the right has successfully sold and the corporate media has perpetuated. The fact that Obama's tax cuts have benefited working families far more than any republican tax cut should be enough proof of that.

You can go on believing the right-wing's propaganda but the proof is in the pudding. All one has to done is take a quick gander at the historical facts. Or just look at the stances taken by those on this board who have represented the philosophies of the left and the right.

As I have stated I am not right wing. Yeah the left is really looking out for the working man....thanks for NAFTA signed by Bill Clinton http://roaddrivers.org/boyda.htm
Now Obama wants to tax 250,000 and above this will help remove small business and move us towards a two tier country. The left appears to be more concerned about those who do not work than those who do. typing a page about the right after I have stated I do not support them really makes little sense to me. I never claimed the right was looking out for the working man.

Brock
05-17-2009, 01:07 PM
The fact that Obama's tax cuts have benefited working families far more than any republican tax cut should be enough proof of that.

Only an idiot would believe that.

Brock
05-17-2009, 01:08 PM
As I have stated I am not right wing. Yeah the left is really looking out for the working man....thanks for NAFTA signed by Bill Clinton.

Shhhh. don't mention Nafta or Gatt, penchief doesn't want to know about it.

penchief
05-17-2009, 01:10 PM
As I have stated I am not right wing. Yeah the left is really looking out for the working man....thanks for NAFTA signed by Bill Clinton http://roaddrivers.org/boyda.htm
Now Obama wants to tax 250,000 and above this will help remove small business and move us towards a two tier country. The left appears to be more concerned about those who do not work than those who do. typing a page about the right after I have stated I do not support them really makes little sense to me. I never claimed the right was looking out for the working man.

Fair enough. I agree that NAFTA was screwed but let's not forget that NAFTA was passed to Clinton from Bush1 and Clinton lobbied hard for labor and environmental protections.

That said, I don't disagree that many democrats have been willing partners in the fraud perpetrated against America by the power quo. My point was that the left has historically advocated for the working man. When considering the rank and file of the left it is still true today. As is evidenced by our stances when it comes to issues affecting working families.
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kcfanXIII
05-17-2009, 01:14 PM
I lean toward the Constitution which retrains central power.


careful, you might be considered a terrorist, simply by knowing your rights.


if you ask me, they all need to be fired, and we need to start from scratch. every last one of them is guilty of some wrong against the people.

RedNeckRaider
05-17-2009, 01:25 PM
Fair enough. I agree that NAFTA was screwed but let's not forget that NAFTA was passed to Clinton from Bush1 and Clinton lobbied hard for labor and environmental protections.

That said, I don't disagree that many democrats have been willing partners in the fraud perpetrated against America by the power quo. My point was that the left has historically advocated for the working man. When considering the rank and file of the left it is still true today. As is evidenced by our stances when it comes to issues affecting working families.
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As I said the left once did stand for the working man, not anymore. The fact the right was pushing for NAFTA is of little shock, the fact a dem put it in play speaks to what I have said. All we did last election was trade out shitbags. I am not so sure at this point we got better shitbags in return. I see no "change" just a different group of dumps pushing their agenda with a different scare tatic. No more of the same old players playing the same old games was promised..what a crock of shit!

penchief
05-17-2009, 01:35 PM
Only an idiot would believe that.

It has nothing to do with believing it. It's a fact represented by people's paychecks. Anyone being honest will say the same thing. The difference when compared to the Bush and Reagan tax cuts is significant. So no, I'm not an idiot. Just speaking from real life experience.
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RedNeckRaider
05-17-2009, 01:39 PM
Do you really want us to post a list of the corrupt people the right has continued to prop up as paragons of their order? Shall we start with Ted Stevens, Larry Craig, and ... ahem ... Carrie Prejean?

A crooked politician, a gay politician and I guess the last one is holding an elected position by winning a state pageant??? Wait you are saying that being gay is a scandal and that a pageant girl saying that being gay is wrong is a scandal??? Also I am certain the left would rather leave sex scandal comparisons alone. That and the fact none mentioned left a girl to die and walked away scott free.

penchief
05-17-2009, 02:22 PM
Shhhh. don't mention Nafta or Gatt, penchief doesn't want to know about it.

Not true. Apparently you aren't familiar with my posting history. Otherwise you wouldn't make implications based on misconceptions or outright attempts to misrepresent my positions for convenience sake.

I have consistently criticized the democratic party for caving on NAFTA.

C'mon Brock, you're better than that.
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StcChief
05-17-2009, 02:30 PM
careful, you might be considered a terrorist, simply by knowing your rights.


if you ask me, they all need to be fired, and we need to start from scratch. every last one of them is guilty of some wrong against the people.
sold Pitchforks up.

but the Kennedy money is something the Dems need so they let him slide.
Just like the "kid" that crashed in DC drunk.

morphius
05-17-2009, 02:31 PM
It has nothing to do with believing it. It's a fact represented by people's paychecks. Anyone being honest will say the same thing. The difference when compared to the Bush and Reagan tax cuts is significant. So no, I'm not an idiot. Just speaking from real life experience.
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You mean that I actually noticed the cash given back by bush versus the ~13 bucks a month from Obama?

stevieray
05-17-2009, 02:36 PM
As I said the left once did stand for the working man, not anymore. The fact the right was pushing for NAFTA is of little shock, the fact a dem put it in play speaks to what I have said. All we did last election was trade out shitbags. I am not so sure at this point we got better shitbags in return. I see no "change" just a different group of dumps pushing their agenda with a different scare tatic. No more of the same old players playing the same old games was promised..what a crock of shit!

...the left has crippled the black family..forty years later, look at the cities, the drop out number in schools, the broken families, the number of incarcerated, etc.

mlyonsd
05-17-2009, 02:38 PM
I have consistently criticized the democratic party for caving on NAFTA.
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So, basically you're saying the democratic party bowed to corporation greed? ;)

penchief
05-17-2009, 02:49 PM
You mean that I actually noticed the cash given back by bush versus the ~13 bucks a month from Obama?

Unless you are not within the income brackets defined by Obama's plan, I have no idea why you are not benefitting.I mean, I'm not rich but I'm not poor either.

I actually increased my 4O1k contribution by 75 dollars per month and still have more net pay. Not much more but it's still more.
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penchief
05-17-2009, 03:00 PM
So, basically you're saying the democratic party bowed to corporation greed? ;)

Yes. those who went along with it. And Clinton should have vetoed the bill until it included the labor and environmental protections he was seeking. He abandoned the left's causes by not sticking to his guns.
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Nightwish
05-17-2009, 03:49 PM
A crooked politician, a gay politician and I guess the last one is holding an elected position by winning a state pageant??? Wait you are saying that being gay is a scandal and that a pageant girl saying that being gay is wrong is a scandal???
Making homosexual advances on an undercover police officer in a public restroom then lying about it is a scandal. Lying about nude photos you had previously posed for when entering a pageant, then pretending to be all about family values is a scandal. And the fact that Prejean is not an elected official does nothing to diminish from the fact that she is being propped up by the right as one of their public faces. You'd be a fool to deny that. Nobody said that hypocritical posturing only counts when those involved are elected officials.

Also I am certain the left would rather leave sex scandal comparisons alone.
There's a considerable difference between having a private extramarital affair and lying about it, and making homosexual advances on complete strangers in public places and lying about it. And don't bother trying to play that card again, because it won't deflect from your hypocrisy.

Dallas Chief
05-17-2009, 04:20 PM
There's a considerable difference between having a private extramarital affair and lying about it, and making homosexual advances on complete strangers in public places and lying about it. And don't bother trying to play that card again, because it won't deflect from your hypocrisy.

Let's forget the partisan BS and sexual preference(s) here for a second. So the pursuit of the act is equal in your eyes (or worse depending on the interpretation of your comment) to the pursuit and execution of the act? Is that logical in your world view considering that both lied about it? Is preying on a young, impressionable, subordinate not even factored into the equation. I mean, which is truly worse? Looking for a little random tail, or pursuing an ongoing intimate relationship with "an employee"?:shrug:

mlyonsd
05-17-2009, 04:20 PM
Yes. those who went along with it. And Clinton should have vetoed the bill until it included the labor and environmental protections he was seeking. He abandoned the left's causes by not sticking to his guns.
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When you agree with me it takes some of the fun out making a whimsical ironic point. Knock it off.

Nightwish
05-17-2009, 04:31 PM
Let's forget the partisan BS and sexual preference(s) here for a second. So the pursuit of the act is equal in your eyes (or worse depending on the interpretation of your comment) to the pursuit and execution of the act? Is that logical in your world view considering that both lied about it? Is preying on a young, impressionable, subordinate not even factored into the equation. I mean, which is truly worse? Looking for a little random tail, or pursuing an ongoing intimate relationship with "an employee"?:shrug:
Yes, I do consider pursuing the act (with no doubt that he would have executed the act had the cop been willing) with a complete stranger in a public place to be worse than pursuing and executing the act with a willing partner that you know in private behind closed doors. I think most would agree.

alanm
05-17-2009, 05:54 PM
Only an idiot would believe that.Yeah that whole $13 a week tax break sure pulled a lot of people out of debt.
Just wait till they notice that they'll get ass f*cked when they have to pay it back with interest next April. ROFL:spock:

kcfanXIII
05-17-2009, 06:18 PM
the whole left vs right thing is all a bunch of crap anyways. the parties are in place to retain the power of the elitists. their policies aren't that different.

RedNeckRaider
05-17-2009, 07:03 PM
Making homosexual advances on an undercover police officer in a public restroom then lying about it is a scandal. Lying about nude photos you had previously posed for when entering a pageant, then pretending to be all about family values is a scandal. And the fact that Prejean is not an elected official does nothing to diminish from the fact that she is being propped up by the right as one of their public faces. You'd be a fool to deny that. Nobody said that hypocritical posturing only counts when those involved are elected officials.


There's a considerable difference between having a private extramarital affair and lying about it, and making homosexual advances on complete strangers in public places and lying about it. And don't bother trying to play that card again, because it won't deflect from your hypocrisy.

ROFL OK you got me :rolleyes: the gay guy and the pin up girl are much worse than any scandal ever. Leaving a girl to die pales in light of these evil people

RedNeckRaider
05-17-2009, 07:04 PM
Let's forget the partisan BS and sexual preference(s) here for a second. So the pursuit of the act is equal in your eyes (or worse depending on the interpretation of your comment) to the pursuit and execution of the act? Is that logical in your world view considering that both lied about it? Is preying on a young, impressionable, subordinate not even factored into the equation. I mean, which is truly worse? Looking for a little random tail, or pursuing an ongoing intimate relationship with "an employee"?:shrug:

No shit

King_Chief_Fan
05-17-2009, 07:13 PM
What's with all the Chappaquidick crap lately? I guess it speaks volumes about the lack of a coherent party or message when people are obsessed with something that happened 40 years ago but in the same day want to tell other people "you can't talk about Bush anymore, that page has been turned".

How many people go around wringing their hands about Watergate or Iran Contra decades after the fact?

who needs a dumb ass drunk when we now have Nancy Pelosi showing her ass and lying...ROFL

Dallas Chief
05-17-2009, 09:10 PM
Yes, I do consider pursuing the act (with no doubt that he would have executed the act had the cop been willing) with a complete stranger in a public place to be worse than pursuing and executing the act with a willing partner that you know in private behind closed doors. I think most would agree.

Even a willing subordinate/employee? I would say that there are serious ethical issues with that behavior, especially if it's someplace like the White House. I also think most courts would agree with me. Any moral sirens going off for you there?

penchief
05-17-2009, 09:19 PM
Even a willing subordinate/employee? I would say that there are serious ethical issues with that behavior, especially if it's someplace like the White House. I also think most courts would agree with me. Any moral sirens going off for you there?

Now this I agree with. I think the most despicable thing about the entire Clinton affair is not that he lied under oath about a private matter but that he used a powerless underling (albeit willing) for his own personal gratification.

That said, I'm not ruling the entire episode out as a total setup from the beginning. Based on Lewinsky's availabillity and her own willingness, such a scenario sometimes makes too much sense. But even if it was a setup it worked because Clinton couldn't control himself.

KILLER_CLOWN
05-17-2009, 09:35 PM
the whole left vs right thing is all a bunch of crap anyways. the parties are in place to retain the power of the elitists. their policies aren't that different.

I know but people act like they bet the farm on a prize fighter and will stick with him to the death. Sooner or later people will realise neither side of the false left/right paradigm represents them. As far as Kennedy is concerned he did try to put the federal reserve out of business so he has that going for him.

http://www.rense.com/general76/jfkvs.htm

Nightwish
05-18-2009, 12:15 AM
Even a willing subordinate/employee? I would say that there are serious ethical issues with that behavior, especially if it's someplace like the White House. I also think most courts would agree with me. Any moral sirens going off for you there?
Not any moreso than trolling for tail among complete strangers in public restrooms. But it doesn't really matter where I put the two in comparison to each other, because the very fact that you guys are defending Craig et al proves my point. Refer back to post #16 and the post I was responding to with that post. The point was that it is hypocritical to blast the left for respecting a guy who fugged up 40 years ago while giving the right a pass on the multitude of incidents where they've propped up disreputable scumbags. Thank you for helping to prove my point.