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Chiefnj2
05-20-2009, 08:18 AM
- Gretz confirms that Dorsey is still healing from a college injury to his shin.
- I omitted the charts because they didn't format correctly.


Wednesday Morning Cup OíChiefs
May 20, 2009 - Bob Gretz |

If you are one of those people who said Glenn Dorsey was a bust as the Chiefs No. 1 draft pick last year, understand that the man in question has heard you.

And if you are one of those people who think Dorsey is now obsolete because of the change in coaching staff and new defensive scheme, let it be known that heís heard you on that as well.

ďIím not going to lie and say you donít hear those things,Ē Dorsey said this week, as the Chiefs began their round of OTA sessions. ďHey, when a team wins two games there are not a lot of nice things they are going to say about anybody.

ďItís always discouraging when you hear negative things about you. But I donít pay them much mind. I know what I did last year and Iím starting to get a pretty good idea of whatís ahead for this year with the new defense. Iím just working hard and trying to help this team win some more football games.Ē

The rush to judgment on the part of some in the media on Dorseyís rookie season had less to do with what the young man did on the field, and more to do with the agendas of various pundits as they tried to make Carl Peterson/Herm Edwards look as bad as possible. We wrote about Dorsey and his rookie season back in January. Hereís the link to that story.

And hereís a chart of first-round defensive tackles in the last five NFL Drafts and what they did in his rookie seasons:


Those numbers scream that what Dorsey did last year in a bad season with a bad defense was pretty normal for first round defensive tackles.

ďI donít expect them to go back and do research,Ē said Dorsey. ďThatís the fans, they react how they want to react.

ďListen, I was the fifth pick and we only one two games, so I guess Iím going to be in the bullís eye. It comes with it. I talked to my parents about it and they told me what I was thinking: Iíve got to turn things into a positive. Thatís what Iím trying to do.Ē

As to whether heís out of place now with the defensive change around the Chiefs, Dorsey doesnít see that.

ďA lot of people are thinking this is a straight 3-4 defense and itís not,Ē said Dorsey. ďBeing at an end is a new place for me, but itís not going to be a classic 3-4 end on every snap. I think I can do it. Itís something new to get used too. Iím trying to get better with it and trying to improve one day at a time.

ďThereís a place for me in this defense.Ē

Dorsey has been limited in his participation first in the teamís mini-camp and now in the first OTA by an old shin injury.

ďItís nothing major,Ē said Dorsey. ďIf it was a game, I would have played. We are just trying to make sure it heals and I can get over it.Ē

The focus for Glenn Dorsey is adapting to the new defense and getting stronger and in condition. Thereís nothing else that heís worried about.

ďI canít focus on stuff like that,Ē Dorsey said of the criticism. ďThe moment I do, I fall behind in getting done what Iíve got to get done. I know it comes with the territory and the only way Iím going to shut people up is to go out and dominate.

ďThatís what Iím working for right now, trying to get better and be more of an impact player. I donít take it negatively or positively, Iíve got to do what Iíve got to do.Ē

Whether is means anything to what Dorsey may get done this year, hereís what those DTs taken in the last five drafts did in their second season. Ellis and Balmer are not included, because like Dorsey, they are entering their sophomore NFL campaigns:


The Chiefs hope Dorsey follows in the footsteps of Ngata, Patterson and Wilfork in their second seasons in the league.

Rain Man
05-20-2009, 08:26 AM
Y'all got a link to the charts?

Chiefnj2
05-20-2009, 08:28 AM
lead story at bobgretz.com

milkman
05-20-2009, 08:30 AM
Dorsey, regardless of success or falure last year, is the type of player one can root for.

Deberg_1990
05-20-2009, 08:32 AM
Dorsey, regardless of success or falure last year, is the type of player one can root for.

Agreed. I like his attitude.

keg in kc
05-20-2009, 08:34 AM
Dorsey, regardless of success or falure last year, is the type of player one can root for.In bob gretzeze, he's won ewe can route four.

[/chuckles at "Listen, I was the fifth pick and we only one two games"]

the Talking Can
05-20-2009, 09:05 AM
so what's with this mysterious injury that hasn't healed in 2 years but will miraculously heal and he'll be fine this year even though an entire off season hasn't healed it?

Chiefnj2
05-20-2009, 09:06 AM
I just read that Dorsey has had the shin injury since 2006.

C-Mac
05-20-2009, 09:14 AM
Y'all got a link to the charts?

Link (http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/wednesday-morning-cup-o%E2%80%99chiefs-32.html#more-8853)

Mr. Flopnuts
05-20-2009, 09:17 AM
Dorsey, regardless of success or falure last year, is the type of player one can root for.

I absolutely love this guy. He is the epitomy of what we want on this team. Down to Earth, hungry, motherfucker that's going to get after it every minute of every game. I hope like hell we don't throw this guy away.

Hoover
05-20-2009, 09:22 AM
I think a lot of people over react to who the 3-4 will affect him. I agree with Dorsey when he say's its not a true 3-4. And after watching Arizona a lot last year I have to agree with him.

I think that a player like Dorsey could be a huge advantage in this defensive scheme. For as bad of a Defense as we were, I'm excited about all of the pieces we have to work with.

I think our secondary is young and strong. Our defensive front is full of talent, Dorsey, Jackson, Hali, and Johnson. Were all first rounders, so a better scheme will produce a better product. I also like players like Tank Tyler and Magee. Who also have the talent to make an impact in this league.

Finally, I think we were wise to bring in a guy like Vrabel and Thomas. Their leadership alone could turn this defense around. I think people will be surprised at our defense. Its the offense that I think is a year or two away.

FAX
05-20-2009, 09:27 AM
so what's with this mysterious injury that hasn't healed in 2 years but will miraculously heal and he'll be fine this year even though an entire off season hasn't healed it?

It's strange, indeed, Mr. the Talking Can. The whole deal is a conundrum concealed in an enigma wrapped in an elastic bandage.

I thought his college injury (the main one) was a leg bone thing. The shin thing may be the same thing as the leg bone thing, but maybe not. Nevertheless, you have to wonder if Dorsey's physically okay or if our doctors missed something important.

FAX

FAX
05-20-2009, 09:34 AM
I think a lot of people over react to who the 3-4 will affect him. I agree with Dorsey when he say's its not a true 3-4. And after watching Arizona a lot last year I have to agree with him.

I think that a player like Dorsey could be a huge advantage in this defensive scheme. For as bad of a Defense as we were, I'm excited about all of the pieces we have to work with.

I think our secondary is young and strong. Our defensive front is full of talent, Dorsey, Jackson, Hali, and Johnson. Were all first rounders, so a better scheme will produce a better product. I also like players like Tank Tyler and Magee. Who also have the talent to make an impact in this league.

Finally, I think we were wise to bring in a guy like Vrabel and Thomas. Their leadership alone could turn this defense around. I think people will be surprised at our defense. Its the offense that I think is a year or two away.

If we can shut down the run, our defense will improve dramatically, Mr. Hoover. Herm's defense was a stupid joke. Game after game, the excuse was that the guys weren't playing their gaps correctly. True or not, it was a sublime coaching failure.

We have been so bad, in fact, that just tackling the ball carrier on first contact would make an enormous difference. Haley strikes me as the kind of guy who has the potential to put a D on the field with the right attitude. We'll see, but I'm looking forward to some head-knocking, testicle-crushing, ear-twisting, sending-the-enemy-O-home-in-a-friggin'-box defense this year.

FAX

Chiefnj2
05-20-2009, 09:37 AM
Summer of 2007 off season article on Dorsey said:

"This is why I came back," Dorsey said last week. He could have been a first round choice in the last draft despite a shin injury late in the season that dropped his stock. But he wasn't talking about all the hardware he was about to get. He was talking about getting the chance to play for the national championship against Ohio State on Jan. 7 in the Louisiana Superdome.

xbarretx
05-20-2009, 10:01 AM
Dorsey, regardless of success or falure last year, is the type of player one can root for.

rep

Mr. Krab
05-20-2009, 10:17 AM
The rush to judgment on the part of some in the media on Dorseyís rookie season had less to do with what the young man did on the field, and more to do with the agendas of various pundits as they tried to make Carl Peterson/Herm Edwards look as bad as possible.
The crying never ends.

Count Alex's Wins
05-20-2009, 10:20 AM
Bravo for having the best possible attitude.

Cannibal
05-20-2009, 10:26 AM
Those numbers scream that what Dorsey did last year in a bad season with a bad defense was pretty normal for first round defensive tackles.

But when he was drafted, he wasn't supposed to be a "normal" first round draft pick. He was supposed to be a "once in a generation" player. I am not calling him a bust yet, but Bob Gretz is a douche... as usual.

L.A. Chieffan
05-20-2009, 10:28 AM
sims jr. see ya at the buffet line glen with two ns

Mr. Krab
05-20-2009, 10:34 AM
I guess i'm a guy in the minority, but i think Dorsey will be in a better situation in a 3-4 defense as long as they put him at RDE. A RDE in a 3-4 generally slides inside to become an undertackle. This is Dorsey's natural position and he shouldn't be put at nose tackle like the Chiefs did last year. The more space Dorsey has to work in, the better. Also the scheme blitzing that comes with a 3-4 defense might take the offensive line away from Dorsey and give him a real chance to penetrate.

Saccopoo
05-20-2009, 10:52 AM
I think Dorsey will be fine. He should see action at the nose and the ends next season. He's strong, with long arms, and has shown (in college) to have the ability to penetrate the gaps as well as take on blockers straight up. Like Fax said (and reinforced by guys like Pollard), I don't think anyone on defense last year knew what the hell was going on due to the fact that they were being forced to play in both Herm's Cover 2 scheme as well as Gun's blitz/stunt hybrid crap. It was a bad marriage and I think we'll see a definite improvement defensively this next year. There are some quality players out there, and some guys who give good effort. I think Tank will be a good nose next season, and the secondary will start to come of age. If we get any type of support from Vrabel and Thomas, we will be much improved over last season.

talastan
05-20-2009, 11:04 AM
I guess i'm a guy in the minority, but i think Dorsey will be in a better situation in a 3-4 defense as long as they put him at RDE. A RDE in a 3-4 generally slides inside to become an undertackle. This is Dorsey's natural position and he shouldn't be put at nose tackle like the Chiefs did last year. The more space Dorsey has to work in, the better. Also the scheme blitzing that comes with a 3-4 defense might take the offensive line away from Dorsey and give him a real chance to penetrate.

This X1000

DaKCMan AP
05-20-2009, 11:06 AM
But when he was drafted, he wasn't supposed to be a "normal" first round draft pick. He was supposed to be a "once in a generation" player. I am not calling him a bust yet, but Bob Gretz is a douche... as usual.

Even "once in a generation" rookie DT's struggle. Look at Warren Sapp's rookie season compared to Dorsey: (Sapp) 26 tackles, 3 sacks. (Dorsey) 32 tackles, 1 sack.

Chiefnj2
05-20-2009, 11:06 AM
IMO Dorsey's best chance of success in the NFL would be to lose a few pounds and play the undertackle at about 285 lbs. Chronic shin/leg injury plus being asked to play at 300lbs plus doesn't seem like a great idea.

BigChiefFan
05-20-2009, 11:15 AM
ďListen, I was the fifth pick and we only one two games"


Classic Gretz.

Cannibal
05-20-2009, 11:28 AM
Even "once in a generation" rookie DT's struggle. Look at Warren Sapp's rookie season compared to Dorsey: (Sapp) 26 tackles, 3 sacks. (Dorsey) 32 tackles, 1 sack.

Then I guess if we're comparing him to Sapp, we can expect something along the lines of 41 tackles and 9 sacks this year?

talastan
05-20-2009, 11:28 AM
Dorsey will excel IMO with this new defensive scheme. They are already according to some reports lining him up in the RDE position for the 3-4 and as RDT for the 4-3. I believe the unpredictablity of the 3-4 blitzing will allow our boy to be alot more difficult to block since they will have to tie up blockers with Edwards, Jackson, and the OLB's. I see Dorsey getting much better penetration in this new scheme. Let's not forget how the losers that ran this Defense before misused Dorsey in the Cover who Defense.

talastan
05-20-2009, 11:28 AM
Then I guess if we're comparing him to Sapp, we can expect something along the lines of 41 tackles and 9 sacks this year?

Sounds good to me!! :thumb:

Chiefnj2
05-20-2009, 11:42 AM
Dorsey will excel IMO with this new defensive scheme. They are already according to some reports lining him up in the RDE position for the 3-4 and as RDT for the 4-3. I believe the unpredictablity of the 3-4 blitzing will allow our boy to be alot more difficult to block since they will have to tie up blockers with Edwards, Jackson, and the OLB's. I see Dorsey getting much better penetration in this new scheme. Let's not forget how the losers that ran this Defense before misused Dorsey in the Cover who Defense.

It would help if KC actually had some decent OLB's who could rush the passer.

CoMoChief
05-20-2009, 11:51 AM
The Chiefs hope Dorsey follows in the footsteps of Ngata, Patterson and Wilfork in their second seasons in the league.

Those 3 are NT's, something Dorsey is not.

TheGuardian
05-20-2009, 12:08 PM
“A lot of people are thinking this is a straight 3-4 defense and it’s not,” said Dorsey. “Being at an end is a new place for me, but it’s not going to be a classic 3-4 end on every snap.

Man this sounds sooooo familiar.

Who wants crow??????????

Lemme see here, I said Dorsey wouldn't be playing nose. Check.

I said this would not be a two gap defense. Check.

I said this would not be a traditional 3-4 much less be run on every down. Check.

Owning people like kcbubb, mecca, hamas, etc? Check.

Basileus777
05-20-2009, 12:09 PM
Those 3 are NT's, something Dorsey is not.

Patterson isn't a NT and Ngata didn't play the nose until last year when Greggs got hurt.

suds79
05-20-2009, 12:12 PM
I fully expect Dorsey to beat out Magee for that starting 3-4 DE spot purely on talent alone.

I mean we're talking a 2nd year top 5 pick vs a rookie 3rd rounder.

Should be a piece of cake.

DJ's left nut
05-20-2009, 12:12 PM
Even if he's right and it's not a 'traditional' 3-4, we have a part-time player we used a #5 overall on. He's still only going to be out there for a handful of defensive snaps each game.

He's the Elvis Dumerville of interior lineman and Dumerville went in the 4th, correct?

I just don't see how this pick can be salvaged. Maybe it'll turn into passable, he'll develop into a nice rotation DT, but we're never going to get any true impact from him at this point, IMO. Not enough to justify the selection (though again, I wouldn't have made the switch to the 3-4, forcing us to waste not only Dorsey, but the #3 overall on Jackson. Way to lock in mediocrity there, fellas)

TheGuardian
05-20-2009, 12:27 PM
Even if he's right and it's not a 'traditional' 3-4, we have a part-time player we used a #5 overall on. He's still only going to be out there for a handful of defensive snaps each game.

He's the Elvis Dumerville of interior lineman and Dumerville went in the 4th, correct?

I just don't see how this pick can be salvaged. Maybe it'll turn into passable, he'll develop into a nice rotation DT, but we're never going to get any true impact from him at this point, IMO. Not enough to justify the selection (though again, I wouldn't have made the switch to the 3-4, forcing us to waste not only Dorsey, but the #3 overall on Jackson. Way to lock in mediocrity there, fellas)

First, what do you mean "even if he's right?" The guy is learning the scheme and told you that. I can't believe some of you are still thinking we will run a traditional 3-4.

Second, since this is not a true 3-4 Dorsey will not be solely asked to hold ground and occupy gaps. He will still be asked to get up field, collapse the pocket, contain the edge, etc. On third downs he and Jackson will slide inside.

I don't think the Pats regret using first round picks on Seymour, Wilfork, and Warren. And comparing Dumerville to Dorsey is ridiculously dumb. No offense.

Basileus777
05-20-2009, 12:30 PM
Even if he's right and it's not a 'traditional' 3-4, we have a part-time player we used a #5 overall on. He's still only going to be out there for a handful of defensive snaps each game.

He's the Elvis Dumerville of interior lineman and Dumerville went in the 4th, correct?

I just don't see how this pick can be salvaged. Maybe it'll turn into passable, he'll develop into a nice rotation DT, but we're never going to get any true impact from him at this point, IMO. Not enough to justify the selection (though again, I wouldn't have made the switch to the 3-4, forcing us to waste not only Dorsey, but the #3 overall on Jackson. Way to lock in mediocrity there, fellas)

Why would you think Dorsey would be a situational player in this defense? I don't see any reason to take him off the field on pass rushing situations. If anything the NT would go out.

DJ's left nut
05-20-2009, 12:37 PM
First, what do you mean "even if he's right?" The guy is learning the scheme and told you that. I can't believe some of you are still thinking we will run a traditional 3-4.

Second, since this is not a true 3-4 Dorsey will not be solely asked to hold ground and occupy gaps. He will still be asked to get up field, collapse the pocket, contain the edge, etc. On third downs he and Jackson will slide inside.

I don't think the Pats regret using first round picks on Seymour, Wilfork, and Warren. And comparing Dumerville to Dorsey is ridiculously dumb. No offense.

Jackson's not Seymour. Wilfork wasn't #3 and Warren's not Warren without both Wilfork and Seymour, neither of which we have (and again Warren wasn't at #3). Had we drafted Seymour at #3, Jackson at # 20 or if even if I thought Jackson would play as well as Warren (and again 10 slots later), I wouldn't hate the pick....as much.

Do you really think Dorsey will be out there more than 70% of the time? It seems to me there will be many times we will be lining up in a more traditional 3-4 set, with 4 backers, Jackson, McGee and a NT. I don't expect the NT to be Dorsey when all is said and done. Nor do I believe the Chiefs will use Dorsey as an end in those sets. They appear to be grooming him for an off-tackle role when they stick four down linemen out there.

And the Dumerville comparison is done to show what value situational players have. Guys that are not every down players simply aren't as valuable. Yes, I know that Dorsey is not going to be brought in as a pass rusher on 3rd downs. At the same time, I don't expect him to be a 50 snap guy either. I'd be surprised to see him in for 30 snaps a game.

Cormac
05-20-2009, 12:40 PM
Man this sounds sooooo familiar.

Who wants crow??????????

Lemme see here, I said Dorsey wouldn't be playing nose. Check.

I said this would not be a two gap defense. Check.

I said this would not be a traditional 3-4 much less be run on every down. Check.

Owning people like kcbubb, mecca, hamas, etc? Check.


Your information and knowledge is great. I enjoy it.
Your gloating......not so much.

CoMoChief
05-20-2009, 12:41 PM
Patterson isn't a NT and Ngata didn't play the nose until last year when Greggs got hurt.

Ngata was drafted as a NT. Played it all throughout college. Where BAL decided to play him is obviously not up to me, but natually Ngata was and always was a NT.

Frankie
05-20-2009, 12:42 PM
Bob Gretz on Dorsey

He must have won the coin flip. Next, is Dorsey's turn.

Cormac
05-20-2009, 12:43 PM
It seems to me there will be many times we will be lining up in a more traditional 3-4 set, with 4 backers, Jackson, McGee and a NT. I don't expect the NT to be Dorsey when all is said and done. Nor do I believe the Chiefs will use Dorsey as an end in those sets. They appear to be grooming him for an off-tackle role when they stick for down linemen out there.

This is a worst-case scenario, IMO. Nobody knows how well Dorsey will do in the 3-4 alignment - not even Dorsey. The best players will play, and I'll bet Dorsey beats out Magee (our 3rd round rookie who will also be learning a new position) at 3-4 end.

Haley has already said that they are projecting Dorsey as a 3-4 end, not a NT. I think that was in his draft day PC.

If Dorsey fails at 3-4 end, then I agree that he will likely only play under-tackle in the 4-3 snaps. That would indeed be a major disappointment.

Basileus777
05-20-2009, 12:44 PM
Ngata was drafted as a NT. Played it all throughout college. Where BAL decided to play him is obviously not up to me, but natually Ngata was and always was a NT.

That's true, but if we are talking about second seasons, it doesn't change the fact that Ngata played DE then.

Cormac
05-20-2009, 12:46 PM
(though again, I wouldn't have made the switch to the 3-4, forcing us to waste not only Dorsey, but the #3 overall on Jackson. Way to lock in mediocrity there, fellas)

Don't jump yet! ;)

Jackson was the only "pure" 3-4 end in the draft according to several "experts". He was an obvious choice tailored for our new defense. The new D may not suit Dorsey's style but it definitely should suit Jackson.

milkman
05-20-2009, 12:47 PM
Your information and knowledge is great. I enjoy it.
Your gloating......not so much.

And it may be premature.

We are getting so many mixed messages from players and coaches that we are as informed as were were when Haley was initially hired.

I think he's probably right, but the gloating should wait until we actually see what is on the field.

Chiefnj2
05-20-2009, 12:51 PM
I said this would not be a traditional 3-4 much less be run on every down. Check.

.

Who said the Chiefs would run a 3-4 every down?