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View Full Version : Chiefs Cheifs Defense WILL Improve the Offense...


petegz28
05-20-2009, 08:44 PM
Why? Cause we will have a much better defense and defensive line. How does that help the Offense? In practice.


I know Marty never had stellar offenses but they were tough and I believe a lot of that came from practicing against a top notch defense. I don't care what Teicher or anyone else says. One reason our O-line was soft under Herm is because our Defensive line was soft under Herm.

DV schemed it and we were hardly a power running team under him anyway.

That being said, I think practicing against a better defensive line with better coaching will help put some spine in the O line.

Have a nice evening...:D

Count Alex's Wins
05-20-2009, 08:46 PM
We'll get better. Why? Because we'll BE better. And being better...helps you get better. But only if you're better.

KCChiefsMan
05-20-2009, 08:46 PM
To the SHIP!!!!

Print em

GREAT SCOTT!

Mecca
05-20-2009, 08:48 PM
All I'm going to ask is where are the pass rushers?

Gonzo
05-20-2009, 08:50 PM
The only way to go is up I suppose...
Posted via Mobile Device

KCChiefsMan
05-20-2009, 08:51 PM
All I'm going to ask is where are the pass rushers?

how do you feel about the OPs statement?

petegz28
05-20-2009, 08:52 PM
All I'm going to ask is where are the pass rushers?

It is a lot easier to get a pass rush out of a 3-4ish defense. Confusion aids a lot in that. Plus we aren't trying to pass rush out of a Cover 2 based defense.

Mecca
05-20-2009, 08:55 PM
Even by 3-4 standards I'm not seeing many sacks out of these players.

petegz28
05-20-2009, 09:04 PM
Even by 3-4 standards I'm not seeing many sacks out of these players.

Why don't we wait and see them play a couple games?

Fruit Ninja
05-20-2009, 09:10 PM
Even by 3-4 standards I'm not seeing many sacks out of these players.

Doesnt look all that great on paper right now, but we gotta wait. We may not get much of a pass rush, but we havent really had one outside of Jared Allen for a long time now.

FAX
05-20-2009, 09:18 PM
Let me get this straight ... the defense will be better and a better defense will make the offense better because they will practice better, right? Makes sense. Plus, as the offense gets better, they can get better than the better defense and since the defense is better, that would make the offense better than the better defense, which means that the offense should make the defense better, but since the defense is already better, they should get even better because the offense is better than the better defense before they got better!!! Awesome!!!

FAX

Ari Chi3fs
05-20-2009, 09:20 PM
What are Cheifs?

Just Passin' By
05-20-2009, 09:30 PM
The linebacker play should be better and the secondary should be better. The defensive line, I'd venture to say, remains a huge question mark. Until the Chiefs prove that can at least slow down a running game, this defense isn't going to be much help to the team. Pioli and the coaching staff are going to be asking a lot out of 2 rookies, a sophomore playing a new position and a guy playing NT for (I believe) the first time in his NFL career.

BigChiefFan
05-20-2009, 09:45 PM
I predict Hali makes big strides this year in the pass-rush department.

petegz28
05-20-2009, 10:18 PM
What are Cheifs?

Those are Chefs that get the "i" back just because it is a new season. Now they have to earn the right to have it before the "e".

soundmind
05-20-2009, 10:43 PM
Even by 3-4 standards I'm not seeing many sacks out of these players.

Well, it can't get worse really....

AND, as retarded as the OG post might be - there is some rationale to an improved D helping the offense. But it's more in the matter of field position. By stopping the run (hopefully) we'll force teams into disadvantaged situations...which should lead to more admirable def stats.

Part of the reason I love football though, is that the stat line can be truly deceiving, and for the most part is reserved for the uneducated fan and the fantasy football world. Shorter fields make for less on the offensive stat line, but it wins games. A porous defense kills everything - so I'm actually pretty happy with the FO moves thus far.

Tribal Warfare
05-20-2009, 10:46 PM
Even by 3-4 standards I'm not seeing many sacks out of these players.

Brian Johnston has potential that kid was/is extremely raw, and it will be interesting how he'll progress since it will be his sophomore season in the league.

KCrockaholic
05-20-2009, 11:32 PM
We can be the KC Chaffs now.

ouch.

DA_T_84
05-20-2009, 11:46 PM
I b4 E, accept aftur see

ChiefMojo
05-21-2009, 12:07 AM
Many still need to get it through their heads that the DL no longer are the ones you have to watch for sacks... that falls on the LB's. in the 3-4 or 4-3 Under, it is the LB's job to put the pressure and not the DL more times than not. The DL holds up the blockers and lets the LB's run free hopefully.

I think Hali is going to surprise people this year. He looks thinner in picks I've seen and his one strength has always been rushing the passer. Now he will be able to do it from a 2-point stance and a running start from the outside. As a whole our LB crew is much better across the board.

petegz28
05-21-2009, 12:09 AM
I b4 E, accept aftur see

Unless your name is Greinky!

Mecca
05-21-2009, 12:17 AM
Tamba Hali's favorite time of the year, the offseason where we always read about how he's gonna do this and that, and then the actual season starts.

cdcox
05-21-2009, 12:30 AM
I respectfully disagree with the opinion expressed in the OP in the strongest way. Each unit has to pull it's own weight.

cdcox
05-21-2009, 12:33 AM
If Haley has half a brain, he'll convince the offense that they are letting the team down because the defense is the better unit and vice versa. Plus, every player will be convinced they are the weak link in whatever unit they are on.

Raised On Riots
05-21-2009, 01:11 AM
All I'm going to ask is where are the pass rushers?

April 25th, 2010.( where we will pick all O-line of course :))

Many still need to get it through their heads that the DL no longer are the ones you have to watch for sacks... that falls on the LB's. in the 3-4 or 4-3 Under, it is the LB's job to put the pressure and not the DL more times than not. The DL holds up the blockers and lets the LB's run free hopefully.


Thank God. The idea of sending linemen to get sacks is so goddamned ass-backwards to me; it's just not defense! I know our personnel at this point is anything but Thomas/Smith, but the fact that we're committing to the OLB position again makes me feel SO much better about this team.

Good outside pressure with slight push up the middle is all it's gonna' take to get in to the mode of disrupting the opposing QB's timing. At this point, I don't give a flying fuck about sacks as much as I care about putting just enough heat on that QB to destroy his overall tempo.
Why?
Because we've got three DB's that are eventually going to capitalize on that shit BIG-TIME.

I want a great defense again! I fucking hate offense. Give me a proper, attacking defense so I never have to talk about Matt Cassel again, and I'm good to go.

crazycoffey
05-21-2009, 03:08 AM
Doesnt look all that great on paper right now, but we gotta wait. We may not get much of a pass rush, but we havent really had one outside of Jared Allen for a long time now.


Jarrad Allen would have been a waste of cap space if we resigned him, he is totally overrated. carl should let the drunk go away, he's too much of a liability to us. [/meccamist]

Blick
05-21-2009, 05:06 AM
I don't think it's a stretch to think that Hali could return to his 7-8 sack form that he showed his first 2 years in the league. That would be a great improvement over his performance last season.

FAX
05-21-2009, 05:19 AM
I b4 E, accept aftur see

Tell that to Einstein. And, while you're at it, tell him to do something about that hair. He looks like he's wearing a toupee custom made from Mr. Bob Dole's eyebrows.

FAX

Slainte
05-21-2009, 06:31 AM
How does that help the Offense? In practice.

I know Marty never had stellar offenses but they were tough and I believe a lot of that came from practicing against a top notch defense. I don't care what Teicher or anyone else says. One reason our O-line was soft under Herm is because our Defensive line was soft under Herm.

DV schemed it and we were hardly a power running team under him anyway.

That being said, I think practicing against a better defensive line with better coaching will help put some spine in the O line.

If the above is true, shouldn't those Vermeil defenses have improved from practicing against that all-world offense?

FAX
05-21-2009, 06:45 AM
The average human brain weighs approximately 1,350 grams. Not bad considering that the average Giraffe's brain weighs 680 grams which is a lot more than a Pink Fairy Armadillo brain which weighs about 2.5 grams. This explains why you rarely see Giraffes hanging out with Pink Fairy Armadillos. Well, that and giraffes are very socially conservative.

FAX

C-Mac
05-21-2009, 09:28 AM
DV schemed it and we were hardly a power running team under him anyway.

Seriously? :spock:

petegz28
05-21-2009, 09:33 AM
Seriously? :spock:

Yea, seriously. The entire DV scheme was based off of pulling linmen and particularly a pulling center. Most offenses don't run the motion and shifts and pull their linemen like that offense did. We were not a straight ahead power running team under DV by any stretch of the imagination.

whoman69
05-21-2009, 09:46 AM
By this premise, the fact that our offensive line under DV was so good it should have made the d-line better. Didn't really pan out that way did it. You still have to have the horses there. I don't see adding Goff and a sixth rounder is enough for a historically bad line.

petegz28
05-21-2009, 09:48 AM
By this premise, the fact that our offensive line under DV was so good it should have made the d-line better. Didn't really pan out that way did it. You still have to have the horses there. I don't see adding Goff and a sixth rounder is enough for a historically bad line.

I should slap you for not reading.

Chiefnj2
05-21-2009, 09:54 AM
I don't see the team has having a much better defense this year. In fact, it may take a step back while all the 4-3 cover 2 guys start to learn the new hybrid 3-4. I just don't see most of them making the transition all that well. Edwards at NT, Dorsey at DE, Hali and Mcbride as OLB's? I think the Chiefs will be fairly lucky if one of those guys ends up playing at an above average level.

MOhillbilly
05-21-2009, 10:01 AM
Yea, seriously. The entire DV scheme was based off of pulling linmen and particularly a pulling center. Most offenses don't run the motion and shifts and pull their linemen like that offense did. We were not a straight ahead power running team under DV by any stretch of the imagination.

KC could run the ball anywhere in 03. that was an absolute monster of a power football team.

petegz28
05-21-2009, 10:04 AM
KC could run the ball anywhere in 03. that was an absolute monster of a power football team.

They were not a power running team. That is just crazy if you think that. That were a pulling based o-line that ran a bunch of toss and sweep type plays. We were not a between the tackles, up the middle running team.

HemiEd
05-21-2009, 10:08 AM
I just can't get past the mis-spelling of Chiefs, in the thread header.

FAX
05-21-2009, 11:31 AM
They were not a power running team. That is just crazy if you think that. That were a pulling based o-line that ran a bunch of toss and sweep type plays. We were not a between the tackles, up the middle running team.

Well, they were kind of both, in a way, Mr. petegz28. Not the sort of "power" running team that lines up a 275 pound halfback and runs him between the tackles on every down, that's true. However we were, first and foremost, a running team. Enemy defenses knew we were going to run it, they knew who was going to run it, and they knew where we were going to run it. They just couldn't stop it. To my mind, that's a power running team.

FAX

petegz28
05-21-2009, 11:38 AM
Well, they were kind of both, in a way, Mr. petegz28. Not the sort of "power" running team that lines up a 275 pound halfback and runs him between the tackles on every down, that's true. However we were, first and foremost, a running team. Enemy defenses knew we were going to run it, they knew who was going to run it, and they knew where we were going to run it. They just couldn't stop it. To my mind, that's a power running team.

FAX

Well I disagree. A "power" running team is the team like a Baltimore Ravens who lines up and powers straight ahead. Much like we did with Marty. DV and Saunders were all about stretching the D-line out and pulling linemen. Toss Sweeps are not a power running play. It creates space and isolation. That is not the same as lining up helmet to helmet and just knocking the guy in front of you off the ball.

FAX
05-21-2009, 11:44 AM
Well I disagree. A "power" running team is the team like a Baltimore Ravens who lines up and powers straight ahead. Much like we did with Marty. DV and Saunders were all about stretching the D-line out and pulling linemen. Toss Sweeps are not a power running play. It creates space and isolation. That is not the same as lining up helmet to helmet and just knocking the guy in front of you off the ball.

It's a reasonable difference of opinion, Mr. petegz28. For example, that team knocked a whole lot of guys off the ball. Remember the MNF game in Baltimore when RayRay spent the better part of 4 quarters either flat on his back with TRich standing over him or on the sideline getting his buttocks massaged? That Chiefs team came straight at the Ravens, knocked their asses in the dirt, and called them Sally. Power. Running. Game.

FAX

petegz28
05-21-2009, 11:46 AM
It's a reasonable difference of opinion, Mr. petegz28. For example, that team knocked a whole lot of guys off the ball. Remember the MNF game in Baltimore when RayRay spent the better part of 4 quarters either flat on his back with TRich standing over him or on the sideline getting his buttocks massaged? That Chiefs team came straight at the Ravens, knocked their asses in the dirt, and called them Sally. Power. Running. Game.

FAX

That game they did. But they, imo, were not the typical power running team. What we had with Okoye and Word, etc, etc, that was a power running game. Imo.

DeezNutz
05-21-2009, 11:48 AM
That game they did. But they, imo, were not the typical power running team. What we had with Okoye and Word, etc, etc, that was a power running game. Imo.

Just because our running game under DV wasn't one dimensional doesn't mean that it wasn't also a power running game.

I say this as no praise for DV, whom I couldn't stand as a coach.

FAX
05-21-2009, 11:52 AM
That game they did. But they, imo, were not the typical power running team. What we had with Okoye and Word, etc, etc, that was a power running game. Imo.

I know exactly what you mean. I mentioned it in my first post on the subject.

I just think that it's easy to look back on those Chiefs and think "finesse". In actuality, that was a bunch of tough SOBs on offense who could and would take the fight to the enemy. Plus, we were a running team first - passing team second. I guess that, to me, the fact that we ran a lot of pitches, stretches, and sweeps doesn't mean we didn't have "power" in the run game.

FAX

DeezNutz
05-21-2009, 12:04 PM
I know exactly what you mean. I mentioned it in my first post on the subject.

I just think that it's easy to look back on those Chiefs and think "finesse". In actuality, that was a bunch of tough SOBs on offense who could and would take the fight to the enemy. Plus, we were a running team first - passing team second. I guess that, to me, the fact that we ran a lot of pitches, stretches, and sweeps doesn't mean we didn't have "power" in the run game.

FAX

I would say the very definition of a "power running team" is what Priest did, repeatedly, at the goal line. Right up the gut--usually over it, to be exact. Push right up the middle. We're stronger and better than you are.

Everyone in the world knew what was going to happen, yet no one could stop it.

Raised On Riots
05-21-2009, 12:06 PM
I would say the very definition of a "power running team" is what Priest did, repeatedly, at the goal line. Right up the gut--usually over it, to be exact. Push right up the middle. We're stronger and better than you are.

Everyone in the world knew what was going to happen, yet no one could stop it.

Until they start playing Iron Maiden songs during the run, it's not a "power" anything!

petegz28
05-21-2009, 12:14 PM
I would say the very definition of a "power running team" is what Priest did, repeatedly, at the goal line. Right up the gut--usually over it, to be exact. Push right up the middle. We're stronger and better than you are.

Everyone in the world knew what was going to happen, yet no one could stop it.


That was only in goal line. And Priest could fucking sky. We powered at times I just don't see that team as a Power Running team in it's traditional sense. We had a powerful running game yes but there is a difference imo.

And frankly it didn't make a damn bit of difference what our O-line did on the goal line, Priest was getting in. Much like Marcus Allen.

CoMoChief
05-21-2009, 12:49 PM
I see bad results from a Tamba Hali OLB experiement. As well as a RDE Dorsey.

We have 2 ancient LB's. One gets concussions a lot. The other isn't going to be as good with the talent we have compared to NE.

The secondary is the best unit we have and its probably a little above avg at best.

I think this defense is going to suck for a couple years. Until at least we get the right players for a 3-4, because once we do I believe thats all we're gonna run. We're running a hybrid now because we dont have the personnel required for a base 3-4 all the time.

Chiefnj2
05-21-2009, 12:54 PM
Most people think of a power running team as 3 yards up the center's ass and a cloud full of dust. I think that's a little too narrow. I agree that KC was a power running team to the outside with Holmes. Everyone in the planet knew Holmes was going to get a pitch and take it around Roaf. Fans knew it, defenses knew it, yet KC was able to line up and execute, blow up the defenders and force the ball down their throats.

Hydrae
05-21-2009, 01:42 PM
Tell that to Einstein. And, while you're at it, tell him to do something about that hair. He looks like he's wearing a toupee custom made from Mr. Bob Dole's eyebrows.

FAX

I heard this morning that Albert would sleep for 10 hours a night. This lead to a very important discovery, bed head! (ok, maybe I shouldn't watch Ellen with my wife while getting ready for work in the morning.)

OctoberFart
05-21-2009, 02:27 PM
I predict Hali makes big strides this year in the pass-rush department.

He was peaked coming out of college. If Hali, Dorsey, Tank would of shown anything KC would of stuck with the 4-3.

whoman69
05-21-2009, 11:20 PM
I should slap you for not reading.

I think everyone who read it felt like they were slapped. I should slap you for writing it. Its a lame premise to think that improving on one side of the ball is going to help the other side in practice. The defense can help the offense by getting the other team off the field. The defense can help the offense by setting the bar below 30 for them to win a game.

I don't care whether you call DV's run games finesse or power. They were effective. It didn't do anything to make our defense better in practice or in gameplay.

RedThat
05-21-2009, 11:59 PM
The only way our defense is going to get better is if those #1 picks Hali, and Dorsey step up and make incredible strides to improve their games.

I just don't see Hali as being a guy who can be an explosive player who can change games, and make an impact on a team. He can be a nice player, but nothing more imo.

KCrockaholic
05-22-2009, 12:30 AM
That was only in goal line. And Priest could ****ing sky. We powered at times I just don't see that team as a Power Running team in it's traditional sense. We had a powerful running game yes but there is a difference imo.

And frankly it didn't make a damn bit of difference what our O-line did on the goal line, Priest was getting in. Much like Marcus Allen.

Ive been skimming through this little disagreement, and I must say, petegz28 is correct. KC under DV was not a 'power' running team, especially with Priest at the helm. With LJ, it was slightly more that way because of his downhill style (im talkin 05). But that offense was more of a vertical passing attack, mixed in with a bit of everything. It was Air Coryell at its finest.