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petegz28
05-21-2009, 07:24 AM
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0509/22794.html

Rep. Alan Grayson was standing in the middle of Disney World when it hit him: What Americans really need is a week of paid vacation.

So on Thursday, the Florida Democrat will introduce the Paid Vacation Act — legislation that would be the first to make paid vacation time a requirement under federal law.

The bill would require companies with more than 100 employees to offer a week of paid vacation for both full-time and part-time employees after they’ve put in a year on the job. Three years after the effective date of the law, those same companies would be required to provide two weeks of paid vacation, and companies with 50 or more employees would have to provide one week.

The idea: More vacation will stimulate the economy through fewer sick days, better productivity and happier employees.

“There’s a reason why Disney World is the happiest place on Earth: The people who go there are on vacation,” said Grayson, a freshman who counts Orlando as part of his home district. “Honestly, as much as I appreciate this job and as much as I enjoy it, the best days of my life are and always have been the days I’m on vacation.”


WTF do these people come from? This is just another sign of the further Europeanization of America.

BucEyedPea
05-21-2009, 07:26 AM
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0509/22794.html




WTF do these people come from? This is just another sign of the further Europeanization of America.

As if it's even necessary. Don't they all do that anyway except for part-timers. I swear those from this ideology has deep seated control issues.

petegz28
05-21-2009, 07:29 AM
As if it's even necessary. Don't they all do that anyway except for part-timers. I swear those from this ideology has deep seated control issues.

A lot of smaller companies do not provide "paid" vacation. That means someone would actually have to save up.

BigRedChief
05-21-2009, 07:31 AM
Bad idea.

wild1
05-21-2009, 07:51 AM
We only have a Coke machine at work. I like Pepsi. I think Congress needs to step in. Save us, Obama!

whatsmynameagain
05-21-2009, 07:52 AM
i think the 4 day workweek is a much better idea and much more productive.....
Posted via Mobile Device

petegz28
05-21-2009, 07:59 AM
i think the 4 day workweek is a much better idea and much more productive.....
Posted via Mobile Device

If the business can do that sure, I agree. There is not anything that can't be learned from the Euros. They work to live, we live to work. There has to be a happy medium there.

mikey23545
05-21-2009, 08:04 AM
A lot of smaller companies do not provide "paid" vacation. That means someone would actually have to save up.

Bullshit. Do you ever know what the fuck you're talking about? It embarrasses me that you're a conservative.

I've worked for a lot of small companies, as have many friends of mine, and I have yet to hear of one that did not provide paid vacations. I'm sure a tiny number of small companies do not, but that is exactly it - a tiny number.

petegz28
05-21-2009, 08:06 AM
Bullshit. Do you ever know what the **** you're talking about? It embarrasses me that you're a conservative.

I've worked for a lot of small companies, as have many friends of mine, and I have yet to hear of one that did not provide paid vacations. I'm sure a tiny number of small companies do not, but that is exactly it - a tiny number.

**** you, dickehead. I had several friends that worked for a contractor for years and they never received a "paid" vacation. I had another friend that worked for a car wash supply company for 5 years and never got 1 day of paid vacation.

so shut the **** up you ignorant jack off.

And you haven't worked for "a lot" of small companies you ****ing liar. You act like because you worked at a few who provided paid vacationt that all of them do. You're a ****ing idiot.

dirk digler
05-21-2009, 08:13 AM
I don't think the government should be mandating this but I understand the thought process. We Americans take less vacation than other country in the world. On the flip side we are still the most productive nation in the world which is kind of surprising.

Like whatsmyname suggested if the government wanted to mandate a 4 day work week I would be all for that :D

Brock
05-21-2009, 08:16 AM
Holy shit, that's ridiculous.

petegz28
05-21-2009, 08:18 AM
I don't think the government should be mandating this but I understand the thought process. We Americans take less vacation than other country in the world. On the flip side we are still the most productive nation in the world which is kind of surprising.

Like whatsmyname suggested if the government wanted to mandate a 4 day work week I would be all for that :D


I really enjoyed the brief time I had the 4-day work weeks. Even though I only had them twice a month. My best friend's company switched to 4 day work weeks. More and more companies are looking to that. The problem is there are still too many old schoolers out there. Work from Home and 4 day work weeks are 2 concepts that need to be embraced by a larger crowd.


I work from home and actually rolled over vacation time last year for the first time in 10 years.

alpha_omega
05-21-2009, 08:25 AM
Yeah, like anyone can f***in' afford to go to Disney World anyway.?.?.?.?

bevischief
05-21-2009, 08:38 AM
i think the 4 day workweek is a much better idea and much more productive.....
Posted via Mobile Device

:clap:

jAZ
05-21-2009, 08:38 AM
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0509/22794.html




WTF do these people come from? This is just another sign of the further Europeanization of America.
He's a representative for one of the biggest tourism destinations in the nation. It's a regional economic development move that won't go anywhere, and he will cry.

It's a stupid idea, for the record.

HonestChieffan
05-21-2009, 08:42 AM
Obama already has a No Days work week program underway for a lot of people. I thing government should have a 3 day work week..about 20 hours a week total.

Taco John
05-21-2009, 08:42 AM
There's an easy solution to this:

http://yourmaninindia.com/


Outsource, and you don't have to pay a single day of vacation if you don't want to.

Rain Man
05-21-2009, 08:50 AM
If they want to run my business, why don't they just take it over now? I have to pay to do tax collections for the government already, and they give me rules about employment classifications that are absolutely moronic. They require larger employers to do all sorts of stupid things, and as my company gets larger we're going to have to face them. It's a real incentive to stay small.

The state legislature here was seriously debating some sort of proposal to make it impossible for employers to lay employees off earlier this year. They were thinking that if you can't lay off employees, then you keep them. Yay! They didn't quite understand the "...and then you go out of business and lose all of the jobs" part of it. Seriously, we need more people in government who have a clue about real life.

And the vacation thing is just stupid. Are there any large companies that don't do that? And if there are, it's only because the government enacts such stupid rules that it's in an employee's best interest to make people part-time and work them 34 hours a week. If the government would get out of people's way, everyone would be better off.

The Rick
05-21-2009, 08:51 AM
I don't need the government ensuring that I get paid vacation by forcing businesses to provide it. If a company doesn't want to provide paid vacation, I simply won't work for them and will go work somewhere that does provide it. Problem solved.

BucEyedPea
05-21-2009, 09:04 AM
A lot of smaller companies do not provide "paid" vacation. That means someone would actually have to save up.

How small? How many are there? My ex worked for a firm that had 20 employees and they got paid vacations....up to 3 weeks the longer they worked there.
That doesn't sound correct to me.

BucEyedPea
05-21-2009, 09:05 AM
Private Ownership with Govt Control= Fascism

jAZ
05-21-2009, 09:08 AM
How small? How many are there? My ex worked for a firm that had 20 employees and they got paid vacations....up to 3 weeks the longer they worked there.
That doesn't sound correct to me.

I had a small business (4 employees) where we couldn't afford to provide paid vaction. We had a sales route schedule and commissioned sales reps, and they needed to work to get paid, and we needed them to work their routes to generate revenues that allowed us to pay them.

It says quite a lot about your entirely theoretical approach to economics, that you had no idea that (m)any full time employees don't get paid vacation days.

Baby Lee
05-21-2009, 09:10 AM
I don't think the government should be mandating this but I understand the thought process.
dirk, and others, if you wonder why people are crying socialism at the drop of the hat, it's because mental midgets like this guy has a relaxing day at The Magic Kingdom [plug, please donate to my campaign], and has a position of power to even entertain the notion 'hey, people should have more leisure time, I think I'll pass a national law mandating it.'
What's next, mandatory mid-day nap time, mandated consumption of 'fun' cocktails at the end of the day, mandated pillow fights. Don't pooh-pooh my brainstorms, I'm trying to make life BETTER!!!!

jAZ
05-21-2009, 09:11 AM
...these people...
Can we dispense with the plurality references in this particular case, for the sake of honesty in presenting the facts of the matter?

This was the brainchild of Disney World's Congressman.

At least until Disneyland's Congressman co-sponsors' the bill?

jAZ
05-21-2009, 09:14 AM
dirk, and others, if you wonder why people are crying socialism at the drop of the hat, it's because mental midgets like this guy has a relaxing day at The Magic Kingdom [plug, please donate to my campaign], and has a position of power to even entertain the notion 'hey, people should have more leisure time, I think I'll pass a national law mandating it.'
What's next, mandatory mid-day nap time, mandated consumption of 'fun' cocktails at the end of the day, mandated pillow fights. Don't pooh-pooh my brainstorms, I'm trying to make life BETTER!!!!
He's trying to generate more business for the single largest constitutent in his district. This is purely self-serving.

To project this shitty idea onto millions of people that didn't propose it, is beyond dishonest. Surely you can admit such. I've seen you spend an aweful lot of energy making that same sort of point when the party lables are reversed.

BucEyedPea
05-21-2009, 09:24 AM
I had a small business (4 employees) where we couldn't afford to provide paid vaction. We had a sales route schedule and commissioned sales reps, and they needed to work to get paid, and we needed them to work their routes to generate revenues that allowed us to pay them.

It says quite a lot about your entirely theoretical approach to economics, that you had no idea that (m)any full time employees don't get paid vacation days.
If you're so empirical, then the flaw in your own argument here is that this stated over 100 employees and your using an example of four. Not exactly apples and oranges.

My approach is not entirely theoretical. It's based on what actually happens based on what the players in a market do. It's not based on a theoretical mathematical model that positivists think is reality.

The fact that we're even having this conversation in a free country is what is ludricous. My point was that it's not that uncommon for larger firms to not provide paid vacations, if at all.

You have hard numbers? Put them up. Show me how empirical and mathematical that you are. Not that it matters because this is an abuse of govt—not matter the numbers.
The fact is I asked a question as to if most do this already and I asked how many are there of the smaller ones and how small are these. That's not a hard statement of fact.

So it still is not relevant to the general thrust that this is not the perogative of the govt— nor is it a right for govt to protect, nor does it promote the general welfare. It's fascism pure and simple. Vacation pay and other benefits are part of any compensation package that the better companies or companies that want to lure decent help need to be competitive in providing such things.

It's best the govt stay out of this.

jAZ
05-21-2009, 09:30 AM
If you're so empirical, then the flaw in your own argument here is that this stated over 100 employees and your using an example of four. Not exactly apples and oranges.
Good point, though I wasn't responding to the article, I was responding to your statements that "Don't they all do that anyway". The point of the under-100 exception (and this should clued you in to the facts out there) is that there are LOTS of small businesses just like mine that don't or can't provide paid vaction.

Hell, it's the staple of the libertarian defense against this, and you are pretending like it's baseless, when it's definately not.

BucEyedPea
05-21-2009, 09:31 AM
I think I've worked long enough to notice people getting paid vacations on average. Clearly, as in other legislation, this is govt trailing the trends of the private sector— again. Then watching progressives steal credit for it.

From:
http://www.salary.com/personal/layoutscripts/psnl_articles.asp?tab=psn&cat=cat011&ser=ser031&part=par088

Career Advancement Tools and Resources

Paid Time Off from Work

Employers know that their employees need a break once in a while. That's why companies offer paid time off (PTO) in the form of vacation days, holidays, personal leave, and sick leave. Some employers' plans offer a specific amount of days for each form of PTO, while others, particularly in the healthcare and financial industries, provide one set amount of paid days off that can be used for various reasons at the employee's discretion.


Average number of total paid days off in the United States Years of service
Years of service Average days per year
Less than 1 year 14
2 year of service 17
3 years of service 18
4 years of service 18
5 years of service 21
6 years of service 23
7 years of service 23
8 years of service 23
9 years of service 23
10 years of service 25
11 years of service 26
12 years of service 26
13 years of service 26
14 years of service 26
15 years of service 27
More than 15 years of service 27


WOW! How theoretical!

petegz28
05-21-2009, 10:26 AM
How small? How many are there? My ex worked for a firm that had 20 employees and they got paid vacations....up to 3 weeks the longer they worked there.
That doesn't sound correct to me.

Don't care how it "sounds". They exist whether you want to like how it sounds or not.

BucEyedPea
05-21-2009, 10:29 AM
Don't care how it "sounds". They exist whether you want to like how it sounds or not.

If you read it correctly, I said it sounded that way because I asked some questions which are still pending for me to make a determination.

So how small and how many are there? Then I won't have to operate on a degree of speculation or sound. Thank you very much.

petegz28
05-21-2009, 10:31 AM
Some you are confusing what PTO can mean. In some cases it is just that, Paid Time Off. FOR ANY REASON. Sick? Comes out of PTO. Doctor or dental appointment? PTO. Have to get your car tagged? PTO.

That does not mean people get "paid vacations". My Aunt and Uncle, both work for a casion (I'll be mum on which) and both wasted their "PTO" on health issues with one needing a stint and the other having a flat out heart attack. Their PTO? Gone! Was it for vacation? No.

So do not pretend that PTO means automatic paid vacations, cause it doesn't. In some cases, like mine, it does. In a lot of other cases, it means just Paid Time Off for any reason.

petegz28
05-21-2009, 10:33 AM
If you read it correctly, I said it sounded that way because I asked some questions which are still pending for me to make a determination.

So how small and how many are there? Then I won't have to operate on a degree of speculation or sound. Thank you very much.

Does it matter how small they are? If you are so convinced these things don't exist then do your own research.

Otherwise you are going to settle for MY "I know someone..." argument.:)

AndChiefs
05-21-2009, 10:37 AM
I have separate sick days and vacation days. Now...can I use those sick days? Not really.

petegz28
05-21-2009, 10:43 AM
I have separate sick days and vacation days. Now...can I use those sick days? Not really.


Fortunately Sprint does not make us take PTO for sick days or dental appointments and such. That goes along with being a salaried employee to a point as well but nonetheless it is a very nice benefit.

Hydrae
05-21-2009, 11:01 AM
I have separate sick days and vacation days. Now...can I use those sick days? Not really.

Being a healthy person who very seldom misses work due to illness (I think I took 1 day of sick pay for a personal sickness last year and none the year before. I took a week off when my wife was in the hospital but that was unusual), I have always felt slighted in that I don't get the same number of days "off" as the sick person who misses a day every other week. Instead I am working harder to cover for the shortage when the other person is out sick. For this reason I much prefer a PTO set up, I can use those days in whatever manner I would like.

AndChiefs
05-21-2009, 12:05 PM
Being a healthy person who very seldom misses work due to illness (I think I took 1 day of sick pay for a personal sickness last year and none the year before. I took a week off when my wife was in the hospital but that was unusual), I have always felt slighted in that I don't get the same number of days "off" as the sick person who misses a day every other week. Instead I am working harder to cover for the shortage when the other person is out sick. For this reason I much prefer a PTO set up, I can use those days in whatever manner I would like.

I agree. I've missed 1 day of work in the last 3 years at my current job. I have enough sick days that I could take a month off just for being sick (and I've wasted some). Other people struggle with having enough sick days. I don't understand it. I would love more vacation though.

KILLER_CLOWN
05-21-2009, 03:30 PM
Being a healthy person who very seldom misses work due to illness (I think I took 1 day of sick pay for a personal sickness last year and none the year before. I took a week off when my wife was in the hospital but that was unusual), I have always felt slighted in that I don't get the same number of days "off" as the sick person who misses a day every other week. Instead I am working harder to cover for the shortage when the other person is out sick. For this reason I much prefer a PTO set up, I can use those days in whatever manner I would like.

Well there is a solution, play hooky once in a while not that i'm condoning that type of behavior.

dirk digler
05-21-2009, 03:44 PM
dirk, and others, if you wonder why people are crying socialism at the drop of the hat, it's because mental midgets like this guy has a relaxing day at The Magic Kingdom [plug, please donate to my campaign], and has a position of power to even entertain the notion 'hey, people should have more leisure time, I think I'll pass a national law mandating it.'
What's next, mandatory mid-day nap time, mandated consumption of 'fun' cocktails at the end of the day, mandated pillow fights. Don't pooh-pooh my brainstorms, I'm trying to make life BETTER!!!!

To be fair it is only a handful of people proposing this and I doubt it goes far.

But I will be all for a mandated 4-day work week and I wonder who wouldn't be?

jAZ
05-21-2009, 03:51 PM
I think I've worked long enough to notice people getting paid vacations on average. Clearly, as in other legislation, this is govt trailing the trends of the private sector— again. Then watching progressives steal credit for it.

From:
http://www.salary.com/personal/layoutscripts/psnl_articles.asp?tab=psn&cat=cat011&ser=ser031&part=par088

Career Advancement Tools and Resources

Paid Time Off from Work

Employers know that their employees need a break once in a while. That's why companies offer paid time off (PTO) in the form of vacation days, holidays, personal leave, and sick leave. Some employers' plans offer a specific amount of days for each form of PTO, while others, particularly in the healthcare and financial industries, provide one set amount of paid days off that can be used for various reasons at the employee's discretion.


Average number of total paid days off in the United States Years of service
Years of service Average days per year
Less than 1 year 14
2 year of service 17
3 years of service 18
4 years of service 18
5 years of service 21
6 years of service 23
7 years of service 23
8 years of service 23
9 years of service 23
10 years of service 25
11 years of service 26
12 years of service 26
13 years of service 26
14 years of service 26
15 years of service 27
More than 15 years of service 27


WOW! How theoretical!

You aren't very good with numbers are you?

Hydrae
05-21-2009, 03:51 PM
To be fair it is only a handful of people proposing this and I doubt it goes far.

But I will be all for a mandated 4-day work week and I wonder who wouldn't be?

I have been working a 4 day work week most of the last decade. Of course my old job I worked 12 hour days (3 days one week, 4 the next. Non-exempt employee, full pay on the 36 hour week, 8 hours OT on the 4 day week. Sweet gig that left me for India). My current job I work 10 hour days. So I still put in as many hours a week but in less days. The only real advantage is one less day of commuting.

FishingRod
05-21-2009, 03:53 PM
I worked as a commissioned salesman for about 14 years. The salaried people got paid vacation. I got what I figured I could afford. I got a draw the first of the month then my commissions minus my draw minus all my "benefits. We were on a 26 per year pay period. So twice a year management and salaried people got an extra check where I went and extra two weeks without one. When sales were good I could make 6 months pay in one month. When they were bad it was really tough. Loved and hated that job.

BucEyedPea
05-21-2009, 04:55 PM
But I will be all for a mandated 4-day work week and I wonder who wouldn't be?

You're kidding me? Of course everyone would like that but that's not the govt's job. You'd croak an entire economy with such wishes.

Free is the biggest seller in advertising for a reason.

dirk digler
05-21-2009, 05:17 PM
I have been working a 4 day work week most of the last decade. Of course my old job I worked 12 hour days (3 days one week, 4 the next. Non-exempt employee, full pay on the 36 hour week, 8 hours OT on the 4 day week. Sweet gig that left me for India). My current job I work 10 hour days. So I still put in as many hours a week but in less days. The only real advantage is one less day of commuting.

Lucky dog. I would love to work 4 10 hour days. I usually pull 9-10 hours anyway per day and still work 5 days.

You're kidding me? Of course everyone would like that but that's not the govt's job. You'd croak an entire economy with such wishes.

Free is the biggest seller in advertising for a reason.

I don't see how you would croak the economy with 4 day work week. You are still working the same amount of hours. Actually it might help the economy if people have an extra day free to spend money.

BucEyedPea
05-21-2009, 05:21 PM
Lucky dog. I would love to work 4 10 hour days. I usually pull 9-10 hours anyway per day and still work 5 days.



I don't see how you would croak the economy with 4 day work week. You are still working the same amount of hours. Actually it might help the economy if people have an extra day free to spend money.

I was referring to your penchant for govt activism in micromanaging our economy as well as other big govt ideas. Taken altogether, handing everything over to what the worker wants is a recipe for disaster. They're workers for a reason. You could always try taking some individual initiative by looking for a job with a 4 day work week...at 8 hours a day I presume you want.

Or become a school teacher. It's one of the best paid part-time jobs.

Jenson71
05-21-2009, 06:07 PM
Against.

petegz28
05-21-2009, 06:26 PM
Against.

WTF have you been?:eek:

dirk digler
05-21-2009, 08:32 PM
You could always try taking some individual initiative by looking for a job with a 4 day work week...at 8 hours a day I presume you want.

Or become a school teacher. It's one of the best paid part-time jobs.

Thanks for the loving talk honey I am a very motivated person it is just hard to find a job that pays well and you get a 4 day work week.

No way would I be a school teacher I would hate to end up like Kotter. :D

BucEyedPea
05-21-2009, 08:39 PM
Against.

A+

Pioli Zombie
05-21-2009, 08:54 PM
I would work better if one of the attractive female employees sucked me off.
I want to introduce the "workplace oral sex act"
Posted via Mobile Device

BucEyedPea
05-21-2009, 09:05 PM
If something like this was ever passed, all that would happen is the employers will just cut the workers pay to compensate for the time off. If the worker wants more leisure time instead of more money then that will happen. In a free market workers would just negotiate for more leisure instead. I got that with my new job. ( cause I'm a Mom) It also reduces competition for large corporations who can afford such things already.

Jenson71
05-21-2009, 11:18 PM
WTF have you been?:eek:

Where? I've been on here everyday as far as I know.

CoMoChief
05-22-2009, 06:53 AM
This is beyond stupid.

HonestChieffan
05-22-2009, 07:06 AM
This is beyond stupid.

Stupid is being redefined by congress and Obummer. You need to keep up or be left behind.

bowener
05-22-2009, 07:30 AM
Private Ownership with Govt Control= Fascism

Not quite, but partially I guess.

And if your avatar is an indication of your beliefs on our nation as of now, then you probably know that fascism attempts to "overcome" communist/socialist ideals from within the country, as well as from outside forces. America in the 1950's was closer to fascist than we are today.

Fascism also fights to remove "left" leaning ideals... or liberal ideals. So, thus far America seems to be pretty damn opposite of a fascist state. The only thing that can be compared to fascist ideals right now is that the USA is trying to "modernize" itself to keep up with the rest of the modern global community, while having to take ownership over some failed businesses and banks, for which the argument has been made that they were "too big" to fail... which is more of a criticism of the way in which we ran things before, and not now.

But, hey, what the **** do I know.


edit: fascist states typically attempt to divide the people against something or some one, such as along race lines or other nations.

BucEyedPea
05-22-2009, 07:41 AM
Not quite, but partially I guess.

And if your avatar is an indication of your beliefs on our nation as of now, then you probably know that fascism attempts to "overcome" communist/socialist ideals from within the country, as well as from outside forces. America in the 1950's was closer to fascist than we are today.

Fascism also fights to remove "left" leaning ideals... or liberal ideals. So, thus far America seems to be pretty damn opposite of a fascist state. The only thing that can be compared to fascist ideals right now is that the USA is trying to "modernize" itself to keep up with the rest of the modern global community, while having to take ownership over some failed businesses and banks, for which the argument has been made that they were "too big" to fail... which is more of a criticism of the way in which we ran things before, and not now.

But, hey, what the **** do I know.


edit: fascist states typically attempt to divide the people against something or some one, such as along race lines or other nations.

While it's true that fascist fight with other types of socialists your analysis is based on the same cliches based on fallacies of old. Fascism is on the left with socialism. They are brother and sister ideologies.

Socialism requires fascist control of the major means of production ( includes you and I) as it requires force only it directly owns. Unless it's in the form of wealth transfer state.

Fascism has 6 of Marx's 10 planks and has the same collectivist goal. It just doesn't directly own the major means of production. It tells them what to do though and micromanages them. All forms of big govt are on the left. They both rely heavily on govt to manage and control the society's economics structure. Emphasis is on heavy controls. Ownership is defined as the right to control. So if it's supplanted by heavy govt controls then it's fascism. Only difference is the owner still owns the deed...but in practice doesn't really own it.

Classical liberalism is to the right of both of them. It does not seek any such controls but allows the market to develop by the players in the market— buyers and sellers according to their own wishes and choices with some govt to keep it free from fraud or keep it safe from dangerous products.

And no, we have fascism in America, particularly economic fascism as part of our mixed economy. More and more over the past 16 years.

There's no way around the idea that fascism is a part of socialism and socialism is a part of fascism. Don't forget the Nazi's were the National Socialist Party and nationalized some major industries too. Fascism does not just specialize in turning people against each other. That can happen in a socialism too only it
uses class against class. Class warfare.

petegz28
05-22-2009, 07:48 AM
Where? I've been on here everyday as far as I know.

Oh, had not seen you in a while ...

Stewie
05-22-2009, 08:03 AM
Some you are confusing what PTO can mean. In some cases it is just that, Paid Time Off. FOR ANY REASON. Sick? Comes out of PTO. Doctor or dental appointment? PTO. Have to get your car tagged? PTO.

That does not mean people get "paid vacations". My Aunt and Uncle, both work for a casion (I'll be mum on which) and both wasted their "PTO" on health issues with one needing a stint and the other having a flat out heart attack. Their PTO? Gone! Was it for vacation? No.

So do not pretend that PTO means automatic paid vacations, cause it doesn't. In some cases, like mine, it does. In a lot of other cases, it means just Paid Time Off for any reason.

We have PTO where I work and the above scenario would never happen. That's what short term disability is for. If their company didn't have short term disability then your aunt and uncle worked for a cheap company. Those are the types of benefits that people just don't understand how valuable they are.

patteeu
05-22-2009, 09:28 AM
I had a small business (4 employees) where we couldn't afford to provide paid vaction. We had a sales route schedule and commissioned sales reps, and they needed to work to get paid, and we needed them to work their routes to generate revenues that allowed us to pay them.

It says quite a lot about your entirely theoretical approach to economics, that you had no idea that (m)any full time employees don't get paid vacation days.

Dear Scrooge,

What does this have to do with a thread about government mandates that apply to businesses with more than 50 employees?

patteeu
05-22-2009, 09:29 AM
Some you are confusing what PTO can mean. In some cases it is just that, Paid Time Off. FOR ANY REASON. Sick? Comes out of PTO. Doctor or dental appointment? PTO. Have to get your car tagged? PTO.

That does not mean people get "paid vacations". My Aunt and Uncle, both work for a casion (I'll be mum on which) and both wasted their "PTO" on health issues with one needing a stint and the other having a flat out heart attack. Their PTO? Gone! Was it for vacation? No.

So do not pretend that PTO means automatic paid vacations, cause it doesn't. In some cases, like mine, it does. In a lot of other cases, it means just Paid Time Off for any reason.

Some people use their vacation time for medical reasons too. So what? PTO is PTO whether it's for vacation or an appointment with the dentist.

patteeu
05-22-2009, 09:31 AM
To be fair it is only a handful of people proposing this and I doubt it goes far.

But I will be all for a mandated 4-day work week and I wonder who wouldn't be?

Non-socialists.

BucEyedPea
05-22-2009, 09:38 AM
Thanks for the loving talk honey I am a very motivated person it is just hard to find a job that pays well and you get a 4 day work week.
Therefore, the solution is to point a gun at business ( using govt) to force them to do what you want. Fascism. You get what you pay for. Jobs that pay well have a price in exchange for the kind of compensation you want.

petegz28
05-22-2009, 09:44 AM
Some people use their vacation time for medical reasons too. So what? PTO is PTO whether it's for vacation or an appointment with the dentist.

Readin seems to have failed you once again. Perhaps I should use smaller words next time?

WTF do you not understand when I say PTO is a broad term and it's application is governed differently by each company?

I even gave you a fucking example.

And thank you for repeating what I already said about some having to used their vacation time for medical...you are on top of things, as usual. :clap:

petegz28
05-22-2009, 09:45 AM
We have PTO where I work and the above scenario would never happen. That's what short term disability is for. If their company didn't have short term disability then your aunt and uncle worked for a cheap company. Those are the types of benefits that people just don't understand how valuable they are.

That's good for your company. But I would hold your tongue before you start casting judgment.

patteeu
05-22-2009, 10:13 AM
Readin seems to have failed you once again. Perhaps I should use smaller words next time?

WTF do you not understand when I say PTO is a broad term and it's application is governed differently by each company?

I even gave you a ****ing example.

And thank you for repeating what I already said about some having to used their vacation time for medical...you are on top of things, as usual. :clap:

You're getting confused again. You said that one of the problems with combining vacation and sick time into a broad category of PTO is that people use up their PTO when they get sick leaving them nothing for vacation. I pointed out that even in a system where sick time and vacation are kept separate, people sometimes use up their vacation when they get sick leaving them nothing for vacation.

Maybe you missed my point. Maybe it's my fault because I was unclear. My point was that your post was retarded.

Rain Man
05-22-2009, 10:28 AM
As an employer, I could deal with a four-day work week. It'd cut my salary costs by 20 percent.

gblowfish
05-22-2009, 10:30 AM
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0509/22794.html

WTF do these people come from? This is just another sign of the further Europeanization of America.

They should all go to Disneyland, not bathe, chain smoke and ridicule Mickey Mouse. That way, we'd be the French at Eurodisney!!

Stewie
05-22-2009, 10:53 AM
That's good for your company. But I would hold your tongue before you start casting judgment.

I'm not judging anyone. A company that doesn't offer short and long term disability is cheap. They'll normally hand you a benefits book of some sort when they make an offer and it's important to take those benefits into consideration when deciding on accepting the job. If you decide to work for a company with a poor benefits package you have no right to bitch about it. You knew the rules going in.

Stewie
05-22-2009, 10:54 AM
As an employer, I could deal with a four-day work week. It'd cut my salary costs by 20 percent.

And if you give them Friday off productivity would only drop 10% because we all know Fridays are mailed in. It's really a bigger benefit for you than you realize. :)

petegz28
05-22-2009, 11:09 AM
You're getting confused again. You said that one of the problems with combining vacation and sick time into a broad category of PTO is that people use up their PTO when they get sick leaving them nothing for vacation. I pointed out that even in a system where sick time and vacation are kept separate, people sometimes use up their vacation when they get sick leaving them nothing for vacation.

Maybe you missed my point. Maybe it's my fault because I was unclear. My point was that your post was retarded.

No I didn't. I said some people have no other choice. Thus negating the fact implied by some that PTO=paid vacation.

petegz28
05-22-2009, 11:09 AM
I'm not judging anyone. A company that doesn't offer short and long term disability is cheap. They'll normally hand you a benefits book of some sort when they make an offer and it's important to take those benefits into consideration when deciding on accepting the job. If you decide to work for a company with a poor benefits package you have no right to bitch about it. You knew the rules going in.

Once again if you can come off your high horse...no one was bitching about it.

Stewie
05-22-2009, 11:18 AM
Once again if you can come off your high horse...no one was bitching about it.

What? You were bitching someone had to use PTO when they were sidelined with heart problems. PTO is used for a two-day illness, not a heart attack or surgery for a stent.

patteeu
05-22-2009, 11:30 AM
No I didn't. I said some people have no other choice. Thus negating the fact implied by some that PTO=paid vacation.

PTO *IS* paid vacation if you choose to use it for that purpose. No one here is confused about the difference between a sick day/vacation day benefit and a PTO benefit. It's really not a very complicated concept.

petegz28
05-22-2009, 11:40 AM
What? You were bitching someone had to use PTO when they were sidelined with heart problems. PTO is used for a two-day illness, not a heart attack or surgery for a stent.


No I wasn't bitching about it. I was pointing out that some people have to use their PTO for sick leave and such. Pay a little more attention, please.

petegz28
05-22-2009, 11:41 AM
PTO *IS* paid vacation if you choose to use it for that purpose. No one here is confused about the difference between a sick day/vacation day benefit and a PTO benefit. It's really not a very complicated concept.

No it is not. You are trying to re-define the word "vacation" to fit your argument. Obviously it is very complicated for you. PTO is just that. Some have implied that PTO=paid "vacation". It is not. It is paid time off for whatever reason. It is NOT "vacation" by default. That is the 3rd time I have had to explain this to you.

petegz28
05-22-2009, 11:43 AM
What? You were bitching someone had to use PTO when they were sidelined with heart problems. PTO is used for a two-day illness, not a heart attack or surgery for a stent.

And yes PTO IS used for a heart attack and such when you are only off work for a week or so. You really should quit thinking you know every damn thing.

Stewie
05-22-2009, 11:50 AM
No I wasn't bitching about it. I was pointing out that some people have to use their PTO for sick leave and such. Pay a little more attention, please.

What sick leave? A heart attack? That's not sick leave! It's covered under a completely different benefit.

What you've posted has nothing to do with PTO, but a lack of other benefits, or an understanding of benefits. As I stated before, PTO is not used for the example you gave. Short term disability is used for the conditions you stated. If short term disability wasn't a benefit of the company they worked for I'm sure they were grabbing every dollar they could get their hands on, including PTO. That's not an indictment of them, but an indictment of the company that offers nothing when serious medical conditions arise.

Stewie
05-22-2009, 11:51 AM
And yes PTO IS used for a heart attack and such when you are only off work for a week or so. You really should quit thinking you know every damn thing.

Dude, you really need to understand short term disability before posting. It makes you look stupid.

patteeu
05-22-2009, 11:59 AM
No it is not. You are trying to re-define the word "vacation" to fit your argument. Obviously it is very complicated for you. PTO is just that. Some have implied that PTO=paid "vacation". It is not. It is paid time off for whatever reason. It is NOT "vacation" by default. That is the 3rd time I have had to explain this to you.

PTO = vacation. Use it for whatever you want. :thumb:

petegz28
05-22-2009, 12:07 PM
PTO = vacation. Use it for whatever you want. :thumb:
No, PTO=Paid Time Off. Not "vacation". People don't take "vacation" cause they are sick or have to go to the doctor.

They may have to take PTO time, or if they have no other choice they might have to burn vacation time, depending on how their company reports such. But PTO is not "vacation".

Vacation is paid time off for you to use for your enjoyment, separate from being sick, etc.

You are trying to redefine the word vacation.

petegz28
05-22-2009, 12:08 PM
Dude, you really need to understand short term disability before posting. It makes you look stupid.

No dude you need to STFU thinking you know something. You were already wrong about the claim that I was bitching about someting when I wasn't. Now you are just looking like a total dumb fuck cause you have no clue of a situation and are spouting off bullshit to try and sound smart.

Take a note Stewie: learn to ask about a situation before you start running your mouth about something you have no understanding of.

Stewie
05-22-2009, 12:12 PM
No dude you need to STFU thinking you know something. You were already wrong about the claim that I was bitching about someting when I wasn't. Now you are just looking like a total dumb **** cause you have no clue of a situation and are spouting off bullshit to try and sound smart.

Take a note Stewie: learn to ask about a situation before you start running your mouth about something you have no understanding of.

Nice comeback Potsy. I'm done arguing with stupid people.

1) PTO = Vacation, a couple of days off with a cold, or getting the car serviced.

2) Short Term Disability = Heart attacks, etc.

Carry on.

patteeu
05-22-2009, 12:19 PM
No, PTO=Paid Time Off. Not "vacation". People don't take "vacation" cause they are sick or have to go to the doctor.

They may have to take PTO time, or if they have no other choice they might have to burn vacation time, depending on how their company reports such. But PTO is not "vacation".

Vacation is paid time off for you to use for your enjoyment, separate from being sick, etc.

You are trying to redefine the word vacation.

LMAO @ your inability to see past the semantics of your argument.

petegz28
05-22-2009, 12:30 PM
Nice comeback Potsy. I'm done arguing with stupid people.

1) PTO = Vacation, a couple of days off with a cold, or getting the car serviced.

2) Short Term Disability = Heart attacks, etc.

Carry on.

At some companies it is, at some it isn't dumbass. Everything doesn't fit into your nice, neat little world.

Just to prove you wrong you fucking idiot, if I take off sick I don't have to take 1 hour of PTO. Not 1. Arrogant fuck.

petegz28
05-22-2009, 12:32 PM
LMAO @ your inability to see past the semantics of your argument.

No, your trying to inject your argument where it was not needed into a different context. Laugh all you want. Between Stewie and yourself, the both of you have proven how fucking idiotic you can be.

For the 5th and last time, PTO means different things at different companies.

petegz28
05-22-2009, 12:40 PM
Nice comeback Potsy. I'm done arguing with stupid people.

1) PTO = Vacation, a couple of days off with a cold, or getting the car serviced.

2) Short Term Disability = Heart attacks, etc.

Carry on.

And let me add, Dr. Know-it-all, SDI only kicks in if you are out for a certain amount of time and you get reduced pay, in most cases. Sorry to ruin your argument.

Hydrae
05-22-2009, 04:09 PM
Pete, are you trying to argue that there should be a specific vacation benefit that can not be used for any other purpose? Because that is kind of how you sound especially in light of the OP position.

petegz28
05-22-2009, 04:59 PM
Pete, are you trying to argue that there should be a specific vacation benefit that can not be used for any other purpose? Because that is kind of how you sound especially in light of the OP position.

Not at all. I was merely clarifying for some, as I said earlier, that PTO is not necessarily "vacation".

Guru
05-22-2009, 05:12 PM
PTO is generally what companies call it when they want to combine vacation and sick leave in one big pot. So PTO does mean vacation with some companies.

patteeu
05-22-2009, 05:37 PM
Not at all. I was merely clarifying for some, as I said earlier, that PTO is not necessarily "vacation".

No one was confused about this.

petegz28
05-22-2009, 10:57 PM
No one was confused about this.

Save you.