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Mr. Arrowhead
05-31-2009, 10:29 AM
http://www.kansas.com/news/breaking/story/833705.html

George Tiller shot to death at Wichita church
Comments (1)
Recommend (67)
BY STAN FINGER
The Wichita Eagle
Photos
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1 of 1
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* George Tiller, the Wichita doctor who became a national lightning rod in the debate over abortion, was shot to death this morning as he walked into church services

Mike Hutmacher/The Wichita Eagle

George Tiller, the Wichita doctor who became a national lightning rod in the debate over abortion, was shot to death this morning as he walked into church services,

* See a locator map of the scene of the crime

WICHITA - George Tiller, the Wichita doctor who became a national lightning rod in the debate over abortion, was shot to death this morning as he walked into church services.

Tiller was shot just after 10 a.m. at Reformation Lutheran Church at 7601 E. 13th, where he was a member of the congregation. An anonymous police source confirmed Tiller was the victim.

Check Kansas.com for updates.

Skip Towne
05-31-2009, 10:32 AM
Not the first time he's been shot at.

stlchiefs
05-31-2009, 10:34 AM
Not the first time he's been shot at.

It will be the last though.

Mr. Krab
05-31-2009, 10:35 AM
Respect life!

Saggysack
05-31-2009, 10:36 AM
pro-life my ass

More along the the lines of submit to my chosen religious beliefs or I will kill you. Wouldn't be surprised in the least to learn it was committed by a person from Spirit One Christian Center

banyon
05-31-2009, 10:37 AM
whoa this is big

Katipan
05-31-2009, 10:38 AM
Never was a fan of late term abortions but this is ridiculous.

KCUnited
05-31-2009, 10:39 AM
THE Wichita doctor who became a national lightning rod in the debate over abortion, was shot to death this morning as he walked into church services?

keg in kc
05-31-2009, 10:40 AM
Humanity never fails to disappoint me.

Dave Lane
05-31-2009, 10:43 AM
I hope they catch and fry the responsible party so he can get his reward...

ChiefaRoo
05-31-2009, 10:44 AM
hmmm

Frazod
05-31-2009, 10:45 AM
Those wacky Kansans.

Saggysack
05-31-2009, 10:45 AM
updated

Tiller's clinic was severely vandalized earlier this month. According to the Associated Press, his lawyer said wires to security cameras and outdoor lights were cut and that the vandals also cut through the roof and plugged the buildings' downspouts. Rain poured through the roof and caused thousands of dollars of damage in the clinic. Tiller reportedly asked the FBI to investigate the incident.

Tiller and his clinic have faced continuous threats and lawsuits. A Wichita jury ruled in March that he was not guilty of illegal abortion on 19 criminal charges he faced for allegedly violating a state law requiring an "independent" second physician's concurring opinion before performing later term abortions. Immediately following the ruling in this criminal case, the Kansas State Board of Healing Arts made public a similar complaint against Tiller that was originally filed in December 2008. Tiller's medical license could eventually be suspended or revoked by the board on the basis of the complaint

BigVE
05-31-2009, 10:51 AM
Never was a fan of late term abortions but this is ridiculous.


This may open up a whole other can of worms but.....what would be the difference? Killing a fetus is killing a fetus whether its the size of a peanut or the size of your hand, right?

BigChiefFan
05-31-2009, 10:53 AM
"No information has been released about whether a suspect is in custody."


WTF???

unothadeal
05-31-2009, 10:53 AM
http://www.kansas.com/news/breaking/story/833705.html

George Tiller shot to death at Wichita church
Comments (1)
Recommend (67)
BY STAN FINGER
The Wichita Eagle
Photos
«
1 of 1
»

* George Tiller, the Wichita doctor who became a national lightning rod in the debate over abortion, was shot to death this morning as he walked into church services

Mike Hutmacher/The Wichita Eagle

George Tiller, the Wichita doctor who became a national lightning rod in the debate over abortion, was shot to death this morning as he walked into church services,

* See a locator map of the scene of the crime

WICHITA - George Tiller, the Wichita doctor who became a national lightning rod in the debate over abortion, was shot to death this morning as he walked into church services.

Wow, three times in one day :shake:

Frazod
05-31-2009, 10:55 AM
This may open up a whole other can of worms but.....what would be the difference? Killing a fetus is killing a fetus whether its the size of a peanut or the size of your hand, right?

True enough.

And also, regardless of size, unless it's your kid, it's none of your fucking business.

banyon
05-31-2009, 10:56 AM
So this would be an act of terrorism, anyone dispute that?

jAZ
05-31-2009, 10:57 AM
So this would be an act of terrorism, anyone dispute that?

Should be treated as such.

Lex Luthor
05-31-2009, 10:58 AM
There's a word to describe the person who did this.

It's called terrorist.

BigVE
05-31-2009, 10:59 AM
True enough.

And also, regardless of size, unless it's your kid, it's none of your ****ing business.

True. I think we (as a society) have passed that point long ago.

Lex Luthor
05-31-2009, 10:59 AM
There's a word to describe the person who did this.

It's called terrorist.
Dang, you guys beat me to it.

Brock
05-31-2009, 11:01 AM
So this would be an act of terrorism, anyone dispute that?

Sure, I do. It's a murder.

BigChiefFan
05-31-2009, 11:01 AM
AGAIN, ..."No information has been released about whether a suspect is in custody."

That doesn't give me a re-assured feeling of justice taking place.

Frazod
05-31-2009, 11:01 AM
True. I think we (as a society) have passed that point long ago.

Not the cavemen among us, apparently.

DeezNutz
05-31-2009, 11:02 AM
So this would be an act of terrorism, anyone dispute that?

Terrorism? No.

Murder? Yes.

banyon
05-31-2009, 11:02 AM
Sure, I do. It's a murder.

So, it's not an act of violence for political purposes?

Is there a rule than it can't be murder AND terrorism that I'm not aware of?

chagrin
05-31-2009, 11:02 AM
THE Wichita doctor who became a national lightning rod in the debate over abortion, was shot to death this morning as he walked into church services?

I think that's the gist of it, though I am going to read it again, just to be sure

Ultra Peanut
05-31-2009, 11:03 AM
Sure, I do. It's a murder.The point of terrorism is to have a negative, squelching psychological effect on the victim and people like the victim.

Thousands of murders were committed on 9/11, but they were also terrorist acts.

DeezNutz
05-31-2009, 11:04 AM
So, it's not an act of violence for political purposes?

Is there a rule than it can't be murder AND terrorism that I'm not aware of?

"Political purpose" is being misapplied.

Frazod
05-31-2009, 11:04 AM
The point of terrorism is to have a negative, squelching psychological effect on the victim and people like the victim.

Thousands of murders were committed on 9/11, but they were also terrorist acts.

I've never heard this definition before, but I agree with it.

Brock
05-31-2009, 11:04 AM
So, it's not an act of violence for political purposes?

Is there a rule than it can't be murder AND terrorism that I'm not aware of?

That doesn't define terrorism. Somebody obviously didn't like what he was doing and murdered him for it. That isn't terrorism.

Ultra Peanut
05-31-2009, 11:05 AM
"Political purpose" is being misapplied.Religious fanatic kills for political reasons.

How is this complicated?

BigRedChief
05-31-2009, 11:05 AM
Sure, I do. It's a murder.
BS. This was obviously a politcal assianation, which is in a different catagory than a murder.

banyon
05-31-2009, 11:05 AM
"Political purpose" is being misapplied.

How so? You think the motive was personal?

BigVE
05-31-2009, 11:05 AM
Not the cavemen among us, apparently.


No doubt. You can almost picture the scene/mindset of caveman/person(s) involved in this crime: "I hate Tiller, I think he is a murderer. I will go KILL him and make it all better. Let us pray."

dirk digler
05-31-2009, 11:05 AM
So, it's not an act of violence for political purposes?

Is there a rule than it can't be murder AND terrorism that I'm not aware of?

You might want to wait until they have a suspect and a motive first.

I mean he could have been cheating on his wife or something totally unrelated and someone decided to kill him. I know it is a longshot but I think it would be prudent to wait until all the facts are out.

Ultra Peanut
05-31-2009, 11:05 AM
That doesn't define terrorism. Somebody obviously didn't like what he was doing and murdered him for it. That isn't terrorism.Palestinians don't like what the Israelis are doing. Suicide bombings are still terrorism.

banyon
05-31-2009, 11:06 AM
That doesn't define terrorism. Somebody obviously didn't like what he was doing and murdered him for it. That isn't terrorism.

I think it's a pretty basic and reasonable definition, what's defective about it?

DeezNutz
05-31-2009, 11:06 AM
Religious fanatic kills for political reasons.

How is this complicated?

Take away "political" and insert "moral."

And this could apply to almost any murder.

BigRedChief
05-31-2009, 11:06 AM
That doesn't define terrorism. Somebody obviously didn't like what he was doing and murdered him for it. That isn't terrorism.
Okay, so now it's okay to murder people that we don't agree with their actions? Just a regular murder. Be out in 20 years etc.

banyon
05-31-2009, 11:06 AM
You might want to wait until they have a suspect and a motive first.

I mean he could have been cheating on his wife or something totally unrelated and someone decided to kill him. I know it is a longshot but I think it would be prudent to wait until all the facts are out.

True, I am making an assumption for sure.

Ultra Peanut
05-31-2009, 11:07 AM
Take away "political" and insert "moral."

And this could apply to almost any murder.Religious fanatic kills for religious reasons.

Wow, that's a totally different connotation.

ForeverChiefs58
05-31-2009, 11:07 AM
How can you believe killing a fetus is bad, but not an adult?

Ultra Peanut
05-31-2009, 11:07 AM
True, I am making an assumption for sure.It's fair when the symbolism is so completely loaded. Quite an unlikely coincidence.

Brock
05-31-2009, 11:08 AM
Okay, so now it's okay to murder people that we don't agree with their actions? .

Who's saying that besides you? What a douchebag thing to say.

banyon
05-31-2009, 11:08 AM
Religious fanatic kills for religious reasons.

Wow, that's a totally different connotation.

I think Al-Qaeda were just protesting municipal bond rates, it didn't have anything to do with religion, if I remember it right.

Ultra Peanut
05-31-2009, 11:08 AM
How can you believe killing a fetus is bad, but not an adult?The same way you can crusade to force women to carry fetuses to term and then paint the same women as welfare queens when they receive government assistance to take care of the babies the fetuses have become.

DeezNutz
05-31-2009, 11:09 AM
Religious fanatic kills for religious reasons.

Wow, that's a totally different connotation.

Yes, it is.

JuicesFlowing
05-31-2009, 11:10 AM
Waiting for this to hit national news ....

banyon
05-31-2009, 11:11 AM
Waiting for this to hit national news ....

They are totally behind the ball on this, I've been hitting them all and nada.

Frazod
05-31-2009, 11:11 AM
Waiting for this to hit national news ....

It just did, on Fox.

Brock
05-31-2009, 11:15 AM
Religious fanatic kills for religious reasons.

Wow, that's a totally different connotation.

Whenever they catch this person, they're most likely going to be prosecuted for murder, not for terrorism.

Katipan
05-31-2009, 11:16 AM
I was making a funny ha ha joke about him being a late term abortion dammit.

This may open up a whole other can of worms but.....what would be the difference? Killing a fetus is killing a fetus whether its the size of a peanut or the size of your hand, right?

killing a fetus by defintion involves killing a fetus

BigRedChief
05-31-2009, 11:17 AM
Whenever they catch this person, they're most likely going to be prosecuted for murder, not for terrorism.
I wouldn't be so fast there. Going to be a lot of political pressure on this one.

banyon
05-31-2009, 11:17 AM
Twitter update:
http://twitter.com/eaglephotos/

225-BAB is the tag on the vehicle police are looking for. Kansas tags. about 2 hours ago

Several witnesses have been taken downtown for questioning. about 2 hours ago

Allred would only identify victim as a white male in his 60's. Also said he had been a victim of high profile crimes in the past. about 2 hours ago

Victim was pronounced dead at the scene in a lobby area of the church about 2 hours ago

WPD Cpt. Brent Allred wouldn't confirm identity of Tiller pending family notification about 2 hours ago

Police looking for a 90's era light blue Ford Taurus with Kansas tags. Registered in Merriam, Ks.

BigRedChief
05-31-2009, 11:17 AM
It just did, on Fox.
msnbc
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31029377/

ForeverChiefs58
05-31-2009, 11:18 AM
The same way you can crusade to force women to carry fetuses to term and then paint the same women as welfare queens when they receive government assistance to take care of the babies the fetuses have become.

Maybe the woman in this scenerio should have used a $@#!%$@# contraceptive!

banyon
05-31-2009, 11:18 AM
Whenever they catch this person, they're most likely going to be prosecuted for murder, not for terrorism.

I don't disagree with that, unless there was some planning and other people involved. That doesn't change the nature of the act though.

Ultra Peanut
05-31-2009, 11:19 AM
Maybe the woman in this scenerio should have used a $@#!%$@# contraceptive!http://j.photos.cx/abortionchart-ccd.gif

ChiefaRoo
05-31-2009, 11:19 AM
WICHITA, Kan. -- Dr. George Tiller, a Kansas man who became one of the most famous figures in the national debate over abortion, was shot and killed at his church Sunday morning, KAKE-TV reported.

The station said Tiller was walking into Reformation Lutheran Church at 10:03 a.m., when he was shot.

Tiller was pronounced dead when emergency crews arrived, the station reported.

Police were looking for a blue Ford Taurus with a K-STATE VANITY PLATE, license number 225 BAB. Police described him as a white male in his 50s or 60s, 6 feet 1 inch tall, 220 pounds, wearing a white shirt and dark pants.

Anyone seen Saul or Bill the Irish? :)

Brock
05-31-2009, 11:20 AM
I wouldn't be so fast there. Going to be a lot of political pressure on this one.

From who?

Thig Lyfe
05-31-2009, 11:22 AM
The same way you can crusade to force women to carry fetuses to term and then paint the same women as welfare queens when they receive government assistance to take care of the babies the fetuses have become.

Holy shit, THIS.

Archie F. Swin
05-31-2009, 11:23 AM
wow, if you're not safe in your own church.....you're not safe period

Just Passin' By
05-31-2009, 11:25 AM
How can you believe killing a fetus is bad, but not an adult?

Why do people always pull out the same ridiculous comparisons in these debates? The fetus is an innocent in the eyes of pretty much every American. The man who is performing abortions (a/k/a killing those innocent unborn childred, depending upon perspective) is committing murder on a pretty large scale, if you view the unborn child as a person.

I'm not defending the murder, and I hope that person is captured, tried, convicted and punished appropriately. I'm simply pointing out how your line of reasoning is flawed. Your argument is really the same one used to defend murderers from getting the death penalty, and it fails there, too.

DeezNutz
05-31-2009, 11:30 AM
From who?

DC on CP.

Mr. Arrowhead
05-31-2009, 11:30 AM
Police were looking for a blue Ford Taurus with a K-STATE VANITY PLATE, license number 225 BAB. Police described him as a white male in his 50s or 60s, 6 feet 1 inch tall, 220 pounds, wearing a white shirt and dark pants.

Anyone seen Saul or Bill the Irish? :)
should have known it was a kstate fan

Mr. Plow
05-31-2009, 11:31 AM
I'm not going to get into my personal beliefs on abortion, but....

I hope that the catch the person/people that are responsible for the murder.

BigOlChiefsfan
05-31-2009, 11:43 AM
"You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine." Tiller was pretty scummy, but killing him as he goes into church makes him a martyr. Next thing you know, it'll be fashionable to be a late-term abortionist and all the cool kids at Smalltown High will be poking coathangers into every 3rd trimester fetus they can find. Ick.

Mr. Flopnuts
05-31-2009, 11:45 AM
Who would've guessed that a Christian would shoot someone in the name of God?

BigRedChief
05-31-2009, 11:46 AM
From who?
Your not naive. This will be seen as a political assination and not a murder. Hence, filing of charges of terriosm.

Mr. Flopnuts
05-31-2009, 11:46 AM
The same way you can crusade to force women to carry fetuses to term and then paint the same women as welfare queens when they receive government assistance to take care of the babies the fetuses have become.

Be careful. You've seen what happens when you paint these religious zealots into a corner.

wazu
05-31-2009, 11:48 AM
So this would be an act of terrorism, anyone dispute that?

I would also dispute.

From Wikipedia: "Terrorism is more commonly understood as an act which is intended to create fear (terror), is perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a materialistic goal or a lone attack), and deliberately targets (or disregards the safety of) non-combatants."

To me that is the biggest difference. An act of terrorism would be to blow up a bomb in the church as this guy walks in, killing innocents in order to make the national headline be put front and center nationally for weeks, months, years.

This was a targeted murder.

alanm
05-31-2009, 11:49 AM
So this would be an act of terrorism, anyone dispute that?Sounds like an act of premeditated murder to start off with. I think law enforcement should be able to do their job with out a bunch of sideline lawyers calling out plays.

BigChiefFan
05-31-2009, 11:50 AM
I would say this is obviously premeditated.

BigRedChief
05-31-2009, 11:52 AM
I would also dispute.

From Wikipedia: "Terrorism is more commonly understood as an act which is intended to create fear (terror), is perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a materialistic goal or a lone attack), and deliberately targets (or disregards the safety of) non-combatants."

To me that is the biggest difference. An act of terrorism would be to blow up a bomb in the church as this guy walks in, killing innocents in order to make the national headline be put front and center nationally for weeks, months, years.

This was a targeted murder.
So the suicide bomber that pulls up to the army base and kills himself is not a terriost because he killed men and women in military uniforms?

Terroism is more than just the actually murder, intimidation also plays a major part. Don't you think a major thought in the assisan's head is that maybe he will detur someone in the future from doing the acts that he is against? And that right there is enough(IMHO) to make it a political assisnation.

shitgoose
05-31-2009, 11:53 AM
http://www.theboxset.com/images/reviewcaptures/612capture_tombstone03.jpg

wazu
05-31-2009, 11:54 AM
Terroism is more than just the actually murder, intimidation also plays a major part. Don't you think a major thought in the assisan's head is that maybe he will detur someone in the future from doing the acts that he is against?

I don't know what was going through the shooters head. I can speculate. If a drug dealer kills somebody who is stealing from them, is that terrorism because they might be wanting to send a message to others not to steal from them?

Phobia
05-31-2009, 11:54 AM
I have the inside scoop that Tiller was awarded with 72 virgin fetuses when he reached the other side.

banyon
05-31-2009, 11:55 AM
I would also dispute.

From Wikipedia: "Terrorism is more commonly understood as an act which is intended to create fear (terror), is perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a materialistic goal or a lone attack), and deliberately targets (or disregards the safety of) non-combatants."

To me that is the biggest difference. An act of terrorism would be to blow up a bomb in the church as this guy walks in, killing innocents in order to make the national headline be put front and center nationally for weeks, months, years.

This was a targeted murder.

I didn't realize that Tiller was a "combatant".

banyon
05-31-2009, 11:56 AM
I don't know what was going through the shooters head. I can speculate. If a drug dealer kills somebody who is stealing from them, is that terrorism because they might be wanting to send a message to others not to steal from them?

No, because there's no political policy that they are trying tyo change through violence.

BigRedChief
05-31-2009, 11:56 AM
I don't know what was going through the shooters head. I can speculate. If a drug dealer kills somebody who is stealing from them, is that terrorism because they might be wanting to send a message to others not to steal from them?
Yes, its speculation at this point. But if the culpurt admits it was because he was performing abortions, its terriosm.

DeezNutz
05-31-2009, 11:57 AM
I didn't realize that Tiller was a "combatant".

He was a 50 in Halo.

banyon
05-31-2009, 11:57 AM
Sounds like an act of premeditated murder to start off with. I think law enforcement should be able to do their job with out a bunch of sideline lawyers calling out plays.

I didn't realize that my posts in this thread were interfering with the police investigation. Doesn't Wichita Homicide have more important things to do right now besides following Chiefsplanet?

Phobia
05-31-2009, 11:57 AM
If anybody is shot at a Wichita church why can't it be Westboro?

Mr. Flopnuts
05-31-2009, 11:58 AM
He was a 50 in Halo.

LMAO ROFL

DeezNutz
05-31-2009, 11:58 AM
I didn't realize that my posts in this thread were interfering with the police investigation. Doesn't Wichita Homicide have more important things to do right now besides following Chiefsplanet?

Just stay back. As long as we keep it under 100 posts we should give them plenty of room.

Mr. Flopnuts
05-31-2009, 11:59 AM
If anybody is shot at a Wichita church why can't it be Westboro?

This was the very first thing that popped in my head. Was that a bad cliche right there?

Frazod
05-31-2009, 11:59 AM
Who would've guessed that a Christian would shoot someone in the name of God?

Especially in Kansas. LMAO

banyon
05-31-2009, 11:59 AM
If anybody is shot at a Wichita church why can't it be Westboro?

That's like their wildest dream I think. They would desperately like to be martyred AFAICS.

Old Dog
05-31-2009, 12:02 PM
Premeditated murder, yep......terrorism, notsomuch IMO

banyon
05-31-2009, 12:04 PM
Body of George Tiller being removed from Reformation Lutheran church.

Saulbadguy
05-31-2009, 12:06 PM
Life, what a beautiful choice!

Bwana
05-31-2009, 12:07 PM
Premeditated murder, yep......terrorism, notsomuch IMO

This

ChiefaRoo
05-31-2009, 12:08 PM
Saul, one of your old Frat buddies from Silo Tech shot Tiller.

BigRedChief
05-31-2009, 12:09 PM
Premeditated murder, yep......terrorism, notsomuch IMO
Everyone has a right to their opinion.

Wanna take a bet that if the guy admits it was because of abortion that he killed the guy that he not charged with a hate or terriosm crime?

Brock
05-31-2009, 12:13 PM
Everyone has a right to their opinion.

Wanna take a bet that if the guy admits it was because of abortion that he killed the guy that he not charged with a hate or terriosm crime?

I'll take that bet.

Bwana
05-31-2009, 12:13 PM
Everyone has a right to their opinion.

Wanna take a bet that if the guy admits it was because of abortion that he killed the guy that he not charged with a hate or terriosm crime?

"Charged" or convicted?

Brock
05-31-2009, 12:15 PM
Your not naive. This will be seen as a political assination and not a murder. Hence, filing of charges of terriosm.

It's not going to happen. He's going to be tried for murder in Sedgwick county, Kansas. That's all.

Cannibal
05-31-2009, 12:16 PM
This always seems to happen with the Dems are in control. The Right Wing becomes fanatical when they are out of power and bullets start flying.

This will not be the end of it.

StcChief
05-31-2009, 12:16 PM
likely some more nervous Abortion Doctors now. .....

Mr. Flopnuts
05-31-2009, 12:16 PM
This always seems to happen with the Dems are in control. The Right Wing becomes fanatical when they are out of power and bullets start flying.

This will not be the end of it.

TO THE HOLY LAND!!!!!

Boon
05-31-2009, 12:17 PM
If anybody is shot at a Wichita church why can't it be Westboro?

Because Westboro is in Topeka?

StcChief
05-31-2009, 12:17 PM
This always seems to happen with the Dems are in control. The Right Wing becomes fanatical when they are out of power and bullets start flying.

This will not be the end of it. and wonder why Ammo and gun sales are high in this economy hmmmm

banyon
05-31-2009, 12:17 PM
Everyone has a right to their opinion.

Wanna take a bet that if the guy admits it was because of abortion that he killed the guy that he not charged with a hate or terriosm crime?

If he's charged in Kansas, the charge will still be murder, but the prosecution could seek to enhance the sentence based on an aggravating factor (like political motivation), which the jury also has to decide.

Chieftain58
05-31-2009, 12:18 PM
uhmmm... speechless

Phobia
05-31-2009, 12:18 PM
Because Westboro is in Topeka?

Oh. That's a really good reason.

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 12:19 PM
This always seems to happen with the Dems are in control. The Right Wing becomes fanatical when they are out of power and bullets start flying.

This will not be the end of it.

In fairness, you also understand that, historically, the opposite is also true.

Bwana
05-31-2009, 12:21 PM
and wonder why Ammo and gun sales are high in this economy hmmmm

Ammo sales would be higher, but you can't buy a box of hand gun ammo to save your ass, because it's all sold out.

Cannibal
05-31-2009, 12:22 PM
In fairness, you also understand that, historically, the opposite is also true.

No. You are wrong.

banyon
05-31-2009, 12:23 PM
In fairness, you also understand that, historically, the opposite is also true.

?

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 12:23 PM
As for this incident....wow. Crazy people do crazy shit. Hopefully his ass will fry.

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 12:26 PM
?


That radical groups from the opposite side of the political spectrum tend to increase in activity and violence, when they become a powerless minority. It's not a left-right thing, it's a reactionary/radical thing. Each side has nut jobs that are far too willing to resort to violence, when they become desperate. Sad, but true.

the Talking Can
05-31-2009, 12:26 PM
when are we going to do something about right wing terrorism in this country?

this shit has been allowed to fester as fanatics do everything but openly call for armed insurrection....the subtext of mainstream nut jobs like Glenn Beck translates directly into right wing wackos stocking up on weapons, and as we've seen, taking justice into their own hands....

words matter, this shit is bigger than the anti-abortion cowards who hunt people down in the name of jesus.....

banyon
05-31-2009, 12:27 PM
That radical groups from the opposite side of the political spectrum tend to increase in activity and violence, when they become a minority. It's not a left-right thing, it's just a radical thing. Period. Each side has nut jobs that are far too willing to resort to violence, when they become desperate. Sad, but true.

Who was shot by a radical lefty in the last 8 years that I am unaware of?

SBK
05-31-2009, 12:27 PM
It always amazes me to see how quickly a thread can turn into a bashing of Christians.
Posted via Mobile Device

the Talking Can
05-31-2009, 12:27 PM
That radical groups from the opposite side of the political spectrum tend to increase in activity and violence, when they become a minority. It's not a left-right thing, it's just a radical thing. Period. Each side has nut jobs that are far too willing to resort to violence, when they become desperate. Sad, but true.

your "everyone does it" crap it irrelevant to the specifics of the discussion, as always....take your dime store history and bore someone else with this gibberish....

Cannibal
05-31-2009, 12:27 PM
That radical groups from the opposite side of the political spectrum tend to increase in activity and violence, when they become a powerless minority. It's not a left-right thing, it's just a radical thing. Period. Each side has nut jobs that are far too willing to resort to violence, when they become desperate. Sad, but true.

Name them. You know that the Right Wing starts killing people when they are out of power. Name some left wing murders.

Mr. Flopnuts
05-31-2009, 12:27 PM
when are we going to do something about right wing terrorism in this country?

this shit has been allowed to fester as fanatics do everything but openly call for armed insurrection....the subtext of mainstream nut jobs like Glenn Beck translates directly into right wing wackos stocking up on weapons, and as we've seen, taking justice into their own hands....

words matter, this shit is bigger than the anti-abortion cowards who hunt people down in the name of jesus.....

Remember that Conan O'Brien skit? We could redo it and call it "In the year 1000" Because when it comes to this topic, the more shit changes, the more it stays the same.

Mr. Flopnuts
05-31-2009, 12:29 PM
It always amazes me to see how quickly a thread can turn into a bashing of Christians.
Posted via Mobile Device

I like you SBK. So I'll be clear when I say that I think the majority of Christians are upstanding human beings. But you know as well as I do that Christians are the first to judge others and the first to cry when the shoe falls on the other foot. Christians also want to control the lives of others nearly as much as the jihadists do IMO. Fundamentals are different, but the intent is the same.

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 12:32 PM
when are we going to do something about right wing terrorism in this country?

this shit has been allowed to fester as fanatics do everything but openly call for armed insurrection....the subtext of mainstream nut jobs like Glenn Beck translates directly into right wing wackos stocking up on weapons, and as we've seen, taking justice into their own hands....

words matter, this shit is bigger than the anti-abortion cowards who hunt people down in the name of jesus.....

We'll probably do about the same thing we did about leftwing terrorism in the 60s and 70s. We will prosecute the SOBs who commit crimes. And, hopefully, we can educate and motivate the public to try to squelch this sort or extremism. That's about it though.

The distinction between criminal acts and First Amendment protections, unfortunately, sometimes can become incitement to violence among the nut job extemists...regardless of which side of the political spectrum they may be on.

banyon
05-31-2009, 12:46 PM
Christian Defense Coalition Condemns Shooting of Dr. George Tiller
News Conference in front of Supreme Court on Monday, 10 AM
http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/895410527.html
Contact: Rev. Patrick J. Mahoney, Director, Christian Defense Coalition, 540-538-4741

WASHINGTON, May 31 /Christian Newswire/ -- Christian and pro-life leaders will hold a news conference in front of the US Supreme Court on Monday, June 1, at 10:00 A.M. to discuss the impact the shooting of Dr. George Tiller will have on the pro-life movement and the Supreme Court.

Rev. Patrick J. Mahoney, Director of the Washington, DC based Christian Defense Coalition is presently available for comment at 540-538-4741

Rev. Patrick Mahoney, national pro-life leader, former national spokesperson for Operation Rescue, had just completed leading two weeks of prayer vigils in Wichita during the trial of Dr. Tiller.

Rev. Patrick Mahoney condemns the shooting of Dr. George Tiller.

Mr. Flopnuts
05-31-2009, 12:47 PM
Was that before or after the room full of high fives?

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 12:48 PM
Name them. You know that the Right Wing starts killing people when they are out of power. Name some left wing murders.

I understand your point. Right wing wackos are the current threat. I'm just saying this is not a left/right or partisan issue, historically, as some wish to portray it.

Of late, no murders, but...

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id3/terror.htm

Terrorist activity by anticapitalist revolutionary groups. In the late nineteenth century, immigrants from Eastern Europe sympathetic to the international anarchist movement launched what historians consider the first wave of domestic terrorism in the United States. Anarchists tried to kill the steel tycoon Henry Clay Frick in 1892 and bombed Chicago’s Haymarket in 1898. In 1901, an anarchist sympathizer named Leon Czolgosz assassinated President William McKinley in Buffalo, New York.

Another wave of left-wing terrorist activity began in the 1960s. Far-left groups such as the Weather Underground, the Symbionese Liberation Army, and the Armed Forces for Puerto Rican National Liberation (FALN) used bombings and kidnappings to draw attention to their radical causes. By the mid-1980s, however, left-wing terrorism had begun to wane.

The only such groups still active, experts say, are Puerto Rican separatists, but even their activists have been scaled back. In its heyday, the FALN tried to kill President Truman, stormed the House of Representatives, and set off bombs in New York City, but Puerto Rican extremists today tend to confine their activities to Puerto Rico. On another front, the FBI warns that anarchist and socialist groups, which have seen a revival since the 1999 World Trade Organization meeting in Seattle, represent “a latent but potential terrorist threat.”


So, yeah, it's been awhile for the left....but what other right wing idiots, of late, have pulled this kinda shit either? It's a cyclical thing....depending on issues of the day, and the degree of desperation of politically powerless factions.

banyon
05-31-2009, 12:50 PM
So, yeah, it's been awhile for the left....but what other right wing idiots, of late, have pulled this kinda shit either? It's a cyclical thing....depending on issues of the day, and the degree of desperation of politically powerless factions.

Are you kidding? Tiller was just shot previously back in the 90's.

mlyonsd
05-31-2009, 12:50 PM
when are we going to do something about right wing terrorism in this country?

this shit has been allowed to fester as fanatics do everything but openly call for armed insurrection....the subtext of mainstream nut jobs like Glenn Beck translates directly into right wing wackos stocking up on weapons, and as we've seen, taking justice into their own hands....

words matter, this shit is bigger than the anti-abortion cowards who hunt people down in the name of jesus.....

Maybe we should lock every pro-lifer up right now just to be safe. Yea, that'll fix it.

Cannibal
05-31-2009, 12:51 PM
I knew you had nothing. So you trying play it off as a bipartisan issue was way off. This is a left vs. right issue and the right are ones that decide to start killing people when they don't get their way.

SBK
05-31-2009, 12:51 PM
I like you SBK. So I'll be clear when I say that I think the majority of Christians are upstanding human beings. But you know as well as I do that Christians are the first to judge others and the first to cry when the shoe falls on the other foot. Christians also want to control the lives of others nearly as much as the jihadists do IMO. Fundamentals are different, but the intent is the same..

There are way too many people who call themselves Christians that know John 3:16 but have never read the next verse.

As a follower of Christ you are not here to condemn, but to love.

The stupid thing about this that is never learned is that by killing this guy the group that they're trying to silence is emboldened. Just like 9/11 was designed to bring the USA to it's knees--it had the exact opposite effect. We were united and chose to fight back.

Killing someone you disagree with is never the right thing to do.
Posted via Mobile Device

BigRedChief
05-31-2009, 12:52 PM
likely some more nervous Abortion Doctors now. .....
But why? it's not terroism

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 12:52 PM
Are you kidding? Tiller was just shot previously back in the 90's.

And there have been no similar "left wing" attempts....or violence, short of murder?

:shrug:

Cannibal
05-31-2009, 12:52 PM
I'll try to find the story, but some guy shot up a "liberal" church just last year and then killed himself. The note he left said he wanted to kill as many liberals as he could because they are ruining the country.

banyon
05-31-2009, 12:53 PM
And there have been no similar "left wing" attempts....or violence, short of murder?

:shrug:

I don't know, have there? You got anything else since 1890?

SBK
05-31-2009, 12:54 PM
This isn't a right/left wing thing. It's a psycho who killed someone.
Posted via Mobile Device

banyon
05-31-2009, 12:55 PM
This isn't a right/left wing thing. It's a psycho who killed someone.
Posted via Mobile Device

Probably got the idea randomly, right? Maybe out of a Magic 8 ball or something?

BigRedChief
05-31-2009, 12:56 PM
This isn't a right/left wing thing. It's a psycho who killed someone.
Posted via Mobile Device
Don't think so. Could be. We will know soon. But premediatated murder shows that he is not insane in the eyes of the law? Lawyers.....?

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 12:57 PM
I knew you had nothing. So you trying play it off as a bipartisan issue was way off. This is a left vs. right issue and the right are ones that decide to start killing people when they don't get their way.

:spock:

I see. So we should all judge people on each "side" of the political spectrum, only by the actions of the most exteme criminal elements on their side. Do I have that right?

This ought to be fun.... LMAO

SBK
05-31-2009, 12:57 PM
I'll try to find the story, but some guy shot up a "liberal" church just last year and then killed himself. The note he left said he wanted to kill as many liberals as he could because they are ruining the country.

There has been several pastors killed recently, and there was the Columbine shooting that Christians were the targets, in Peducah, KY the schools bible study was shot up.

These things happen to people from all sides by people on all sides.

We call these folks killers, lunatics, psychos etc...
Posted via Mobile Device

Cannibal
05-31-2009, 12:57 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/28/jim-d-adkisson-charged-in_n_115281.html

dirk digler
05-31-2009, 12:57 PM
So, yeah, it's been awhile for the left....but what other right wing idiots, of late, have pulled this kinda shit either? It's a cyclical thing....depending on issues of the day, and the degree of desperation of politically powerless factions.

Wasn't Tim McVeigh a right-wing idiot or just an idiot?

Mr. Flopnuts
05-31-2009, 12:58 PM
.

There are way too many people who call themselves Christians that know John 3:16 but have never read the next verse.

As a follower of Christ you are not here to condemn, but to love.

The stupid thing about this that is never learned is that by killing this guy the group that they're trying to silence is emboldened. Just like 9/11 was designed to bring the USA to it's knees--it had the exact opposite effect. We were united and chose to fight back.

Killing someone you disagree with is never the right thing to do.
Posted via Mobile Device

And that is exactly why I opened the statement the way that I did. I know that most of you are God loving creatures, not God fearing. Unfortunately, the latter are a stain on your collective shirts. If you know where you lie, don't take it personal. None of it is ever directed at you.

irishjayhawk
05-31-2009, 12:59 PM
There has been several pastors killed recently, and there was the Columbine shooting that Christians were the targets, in Peducah, KY the schools bible study was shot up.

These things happen to people from all sides by people on all sides.

We call these folks killers, lunatics, psychos etc...
Posted via Mobile Device

FWIW, there was a book recently detailing the Columbine shootings and the whole Christian-centric aspect and "do you believe in god" questions the killers asked were myth.

irishjayhawk
05-31-2009, 01:00 PM
.

There are way too many people who call themselves Christians that know John 3:16 but have never read the next verse.

As a follower of Christ you are not here to condemn, but to love.

The stupid thing about this that is never learned is that by killing this guy the group that they're trying to silence is emboldened. Just like 9/11 was designed to bring the USA to it's knees--it had the exact opposite effect. We were united and chose to fight back.

Killing someone you disagree with is never the right thing to do.
Posted via Mobile Device


I agree, but that's also the reason I attack moderates. They enable it.

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 01:00 PM
Wasn't Tim McVeigh a right-wing idiot or just an idiot?

I'd say he was an "anti-government/anarchist" idiot. Of course, Dems and the media tried to portray him as "right wing"....though in his rantings, writings, and interviews he held both democrats and republicans (the government, not left or right) as equally despicable.

irishjayhawk
05-31-2009, 01:01 PM
Kotter, do you understand the concept of burden of proof?

Judging by this thread (and past) I don't think you do.

BigRedChief
05-31-2009, 01:01 PM
:spock:

I see. So we should all judge people on each "side" of the political spectrum, only by the actions of the most exteme criminal elements on their side. Do I have that right?

This ought to be fun.... LMAO
Sure there are nutjobs on both sides of the political isle. but you have to admit that besides the brief period in the 60's historically, most home grown terriosts have had political views from the right wing? correct?

banyon
05-31-2009, 01:01 PM
There has been several pastors killed recently, and there was the Columbine shooting that Christians were the targets, in Peducah, KY the schools bible study was shot up.

These things happen to people from all sides by people on all sides.

We call these folks killers, lunatics, psychos etc...
Posted via Mobile Device

These people were killed by leftist activists?

Kliebold was some leftist organizer now?

In the end, it's a despicable act regardless, but what led to it?

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 01:02 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/28/jim-d-adkisson-charged-in_n_115281.html

Kotter, do you understand the concept of burden of proof?

Judging by this thread (and past) I don't think you do.



http://www.paulbogdanor.com/left.html

Sure there are nutjobs on both sides of the political isle. but you have to admit that besides the brief period in the 60's historically, most home grown terriosts have had political views from the right wing? correct?

Of late, in the US? Yeah. But that's a dangerously narrow perspective....

Cannibal
05-31-2009, 01:02 PM
There has been several pastors killed recently, and there was the Columbine shooting that Christians were the targets, in Peducah, KY the schools bible study was shot up.

These things happen to people from all sides by people on all sides.

We call these folks killers, lunatics, psychos etc...
Posted via Mobile Device

You'll have to show me that those people were "liberals" with a political philosophy that had something to do with their actions. A link might help.

StcChief
05-31-2009, 01:05 PM
http://www.paulbogdanor.com/left.html
stop using facts. it only confuses them.

Mr. Flopnuts
05-31-2009, 01:06 PM
Anything you can do, I can do better..............

irishjayhawk
05-31-2009, 01:06 PM
http://www.paulbogdanor.com/left.html



Of late, in the US? Yeah. But that's a dangerously narrow perspective....

That doesn't really address my question.

dirk digler
05-31-2009, 01:06 PM
I'd say he was an "anti-government/anarchist" idiot. Of course, Dems and the media tried to portray him as "right wing"....though in his rantings, writings, and interviews he held both democrats and republicans (the government, not left or right) as equally despicable.

Thanks. I always kind of considered him a right-wing idiot because he was part of militia's which were considered far-right extremists. But I could see just hating government in general and not really caring who was in charge.

Though it seems IMVHO the far-right takes alot of things to extreme as far as threats and violence go. Remember the Terry Schiavo case and all the threats Michael Schiavo received.

But there is alot of crazy fucking people in this world on both sides.

Phobia
05-31-2009, 01:07 PM
Does anybody know the whereabouts of Bill O'Reilly?

Cannibal
05-31-2009, 01:08 PM
http://www.paulbogdanor.com/left.html



Of late, in the US? Yeah. But that's a dangerously narrow perspective....

In the last 50 years or longer (could be much longer, I need time to read about it) in our own country. It is the Right Wing that pulls this shit and you know it.

KCChiefsMan
05-31-2009, 01:09 PM
Look at this country today. Abortions are only a positive thing. Seriously, I bet 1 out of 10 kids under 3 years old right now are born from decent people. A lot of these people who are having kids should be forced to have abortions then sterilized.

Phobia
05-31-2009, 01:09 PM
Liberals never kill anybody because guns are wrong. Don't you idiots know anything?

Cannibal
05-31-2009, 01:09 PM
Interestingly, the Dems were in control when McVeigh murder all those people.

the Talking Can
05-31-2009, 01:10 PM
Does anybody know the whereabouts of Bill O'Reilly?

driving the getaway car a la al cowlings.....

Phobia
05-31-2009, 01:10 PM
Look at this country today. Abortions are only a positive thing. Seriously, I bet 1 out of 10 kids under 3 years old right now are born from decent people. A lot of these people who are having kids should be forced to have abortions then sterilized.

I know, right. If only people would tip better.

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 01:10 PM
That doesn't really address my question.

Millions killed as a result of left wing radical violence, doesn't satisfy the "burden of proof" that....there are plenty of criminal nutjobs on both sides of the political spectrum who do tragically criminal things?

:spock:

I hope you don't have ambitions of becoming a lawyer anytime soon.

irishjayhawk
05-31-2009, 01:10 PM
Out of curiosity, aren't the right and left switched in some international countries?

Inspector
05-31-2009, 01:11 PM
A guy at the barber shop told me that this murder was just to protect the little children that Tiller wanted to murder. He compared it to the US trying to kill Osama to prevent future murders of Americans.

What a nut.

Me? Well, I agree with all of you guys. Yep, each and every one of you!

Phobia
05-31-2009, 01:11 PM
Interestingly, the Dems were in control when McVeigh murder all those people.

I was in OKC and heard Tim yell, "I VOTED FOR BUSH" as he walked away with a subtle odor of manure.

irishjayhawk
05-31-2009, 01:12 PM
Millions killed as a result of left wing radical violence, doesn't satisfy the "burden of proof" that....there are plenty of criminal nutjobs on both sides of the political spectrum who do tragically criminal things?

:spock:

I hope you don't have ambitions of becoming a lawyer anytime soon.

I was referring to your non-linking before my post and then turn around and ask the people refuting you to prove you wrong.

Phobia
05-31-2009, 01:12 PM
Out of curiosity, aren't the right and left switched in some international countries?

Yes, everybody in the southern hemisphere is backwards.

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 01:12 PM
Interestingly, the Dems were in control when McVeigh murder all those people.

He hated Republicans as much as he hated Democrats. He was an equal opportunity hater-nutjob.

Brock
05-31-2009, 01:13 PM
Interestingly, the Dems were in control when McVeigh murder all those people.

They had the White House.

Cannibal
05-31-2009, 01:13 PM
I was in OKC and heard Tim yell, "I VOTED FOR BUSH" as he walked away with a subtle odor of manure.

These assholes crawl out of the woodwork when Dems are in control. There is a history of it unfortunately.

Inspector
05-31-2009, 01:13 PM
Yes, everybody in the southern hemisphere is backwards.

Toilets flow in the opposite direction there too.

Ultra Peanut
05-31-2009, 01:13 PM
He hated Republicans as much as he hated Democrats. He was an equal opportunity hater-nutjob.Oh, so you might say he was... in the middle? Like you?

KCChiefsMan
05-31-2009, 01:14 PM
I know, right. If only people would tip better.

Waiting tables and working in customer service in the past made me an evil person. It would do it to you as well. You are lucky you never have had to deal with shit heads.

irishjayhawk
05-31-2009, 01:15 PM
Oh, so you might say he was... in the middle? Like you?

ROFL

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 01:15 PM
Oh, so you might say he was... in the middle? Like you?


LMAO

Touche'

....minus the "hater-nutjob" part of though, Psic.

:)

Cannibal
05-31-2009, 01:16 PM
They had the White House.

True, but the Republicans had just taken control of Congress the year prior.

Ultra Peanut
05-31-2009, 01:19 PM
LMAO

Touche'

....minus the "hater-nutjob" part of though, Psic.

:)Debatable. :o

Bwana
05-31-2009, 01:19 PM
Does anybody know the whereabouts of Bill O'Reilly?

Likely sitting at home counting all his money.

banyon
05-31-2009, 01:22 PM
Police say suspect is in custody.

http://twitter.com/eaglephotos/

mlyonsd
05-31-2009, 01:23 PM
True, but the Republicans had just taken control of Congress the year prior.

Ok, that was good. ROFL

BigRedChief
05-31-2009, 01:25 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/31/kansas.doctor.killed/index.html

I didn't know he got shot in 1993 also. I thought it was an "attempted" shooting. Shouldn't have burned all those trees and I'd have a better memory.

banyon
05-31-2009, 01:27 PM
Police give a statement: (video)

http://videos.kansas.com/vmix_hosted_apps/p/media?id=4344984&item_index=&genre_id=00005059

Jenson71
05-31-2009, 01:28 PM
Aside from it being plain wrong and misguided, obviously, it might set any pro-life movement back a step or two, unneeded when in the most recent Gallup Poll, for the first time in a long time, more Americans consider themselves "pro-life" than "pro-choice." Does the world need an abortionist martyr? Does the world need a murderer representing the pro-life movement, even if for only a short time? Sad.

SBK
05-31-2009, 01:28 PM
If you want "liberals" who killed people I'd start and stop with Stalin and Hitler. Give me a break.

banyon
05-31-2009, 01:30 PM
If you want "liberals" who killed people I'd start and stop with Stalin and Hitler. Give me a break.

The context was this country's current political climate.

Also, calling Hitler a liberal is pretty specious.

BigRedChief
05-31-2009, 01:31 PM
Aside from it being plain wrong and misguided, obviously, it might set any pro-life movement back a step or two, unneeded when in the most recent Gallup Poll, for the first time in a long time, more Americans consider themselves "pro-life" than "pro-choice." Does the world need an abortionist martyr? Does the world need a murderer representing the pro-life movement, even if for only a short time? Sad.
They may consider themselfs more "pro-life" but they still don't want to see Roe vs. Wade overturned.

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/us_national_survey_cnn51415.php
Recent CNN poll says 68% don't want to see it overturned.

Jenson71
05-31-2009, 01:33 PM
If you want "liberals" who killed people I'd start and stop with Stalin and Hitler. Give me a break.

Well, at least we can get a laugh out of this thread somehow.

banyon
05-31-2009, 01:35 PM
WICHITA - The suspect in this morning's fatal shooting of George Tiller is in custody, according to emergency dispatchers.

Authorities have yet to release more information about the arrest. Wichita police have scheduled a 4 p.m. news conference to discuss the case.

Jenson71
05-31-2009, 01:35 PM
They may consider themselfs more "pro-life" but they still don't want to see Roe vs. Wade overturned.

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/us_national_survey_cnn51415.php
Recent CNN poll says 68% don't want to see it overturned.

But they chose it over pro-choice, so that seems to limit those people who view pro-life as meaning anti-death penalty, pro-abortion.

Given the options, I'd rather have everyone pro-life and abortion never used but still legal, than illegal but used a lot.

mlyonsd
05-31-2009, 01:37 PM
Aside from it being plain wrong and misguided, obviously, it might set any pro-life movement back a step or two, unneeded when in the most recent Gallup Poll, for the first time in a long time, more Americans consider themselves "pro-life" than "pro-choice." Does the world need an abortionist martyr? Does the world need a murderer representing the pro-life movement, even if for only a short time? Sad.

It doesn't matter which side of the issue you're on, justice to a murderer must be upheld. Perioid.

If MO has the death penalty the guy should fry.

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 01:38 PM
Aside from it being plain wrong and misguided, obviously, it might set any pro-life movement back a step or two, unneeded when in the most recent Gallup Poll, for the first time in a long time, more Americans consider themselves "pro-life" than "pro-choice." Does the world need an abortionist martyr? Does the world need a murderer representing the pro-life movement, even if for only a short time? Sad.

Though I'd disagree, some will compare him to a modern day John Brown of sorts. It's all in perception.

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 01:40 PM
It doesn't matter which side of the issue you're on, justice to a murderer must be upheld. Perioid.

If MO has the death penalty the guy should fry.

Wichita, KS.

They have the death penalty; jury nullification for the sentencing phase of the trial (imposing the death penalty) could be a minor issue--but let's hope not.

BigRedChief
05-31-2009, 01:42 PM
But they chose it over pro-choice, so that seems to limit those people who view pro-life as meaning anti-death penalty, pro-abortion.

Given the options, I'd rather have everyone pro-life and abortion never used but still legal, than illegal but used a lot.
I think its along the same lines as the KKK in most peoples views. They find the rhetoric and views of the KKK offensive and immoral but wouldn't vote for a measure to restrict their free speech.

Most people view abortion as a moral/ethicical/religious and or an individual choice. They would not be in favor of dictating their moral/religiuous/individual choices upon others.

Jenson71
05-31-2009, 01:43 PM
Though I'd disagree, some will compare him to a modern day John Brown of sorts. It's all in perception.

Some? A few backwaters? The overwhelming majority won't. And neither will TV media or newspapers or politicians.

memyselfI
05-31-2009, 01:45 PM
Vigilante justice coming to a church near you.

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 01:46 PM
The overwhelming majority won't. And neither will TV media or newspapers or politicians.


Agreed. Most, at the time, didn't consider Brown as such either. Just some religious nutjob types.

banyon
05-31-2009, 02:32 PM
Photo of suspects car at arrest scene, shot by cell phone camera.

BigRedChief
05-31-2009, 02:32 PM
Millions killed as a result of left wing radical violence, doesn't satisfy the "burden of proof" that....there are plenty of criminal nutjobs on both sides of the political spectrum who do tragically criminal things?

:spock:

I hope you don't have ambitions of becoming a lawyer anytime soon.
All told, according to statistics provided by the National Abortion Federation and not including this morning's murder, since 1977, there have been seven murders, 17 attempted murders, 41 bombings, 175 arsons, 96 attempted bombings or arsons, 390 invasions, 1400 cases of vandalism, 1993 cases of trespassing, 100 butyric acid attacks, 659 anthrax threats, 179 cases of assault and battery, 406 death threats, four kidnappings, 151 burglaries, and 525 cases of stalking specifically directed at clinics, their workers, or their volunteers in the US and Canada. That's over 6,100 cases of terrorist activity by the "pro-life" movement. And that's just what was reported -- the actual numbers are probably much higher.

Pioli Zombie
05-31-2009, 02:41 PM
The agenda driven debate of this thread is totally off target on both sides.
I'm Christian and Pro-Life.

What took place today was a dispicable act of cold blooded murder. Plain and simple.

Nothing justifies.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 02:42 PM
All told, according to statistics provided by the National Abortion Federation and not including this morning's murder, since 1977, there have been seven murders, 17 attempted murders, 41 bombings, 175 arsons, 96 attempted bombings or arsons, 390 invasions, 1400 cases of vandalism, 1993 cases of trespassing, 100 butyric acid attacks, 659 anthrax threats, 179 cases of assault and battery, 406 death threats, four kidnappings, 151 burglaries, and 525 cases of stalking specifically directed at clinics, their workers, or their volunteers in the US and Canada. That's over 6,100 cases of terrorist activity by the "pro-life" movement. And that's just what was reported -- the actual numbers are probably much higher.

Has the FBI officially classified all of these incidents as abortion-related and terrorist attacks? Or is that the determination of the National Abortion Federation? :shrug:

Don't get me wrong....I've said, there are nutjobs on the anti-abortion side to be sure. This psycho today is one--if his motive turns out to be as it appears, initially. However, both "sides" manufacture statistics and numbers to suit their own political purposes.

I'd suspect these numbers are subject to debate, depending on to whom you are talking....since attributing intent and motive to any crime, is an inexact and subjective process, at best.

My main point stands; there are plenty of nutjobs and psychos on both sides of the political spectrum.

SBK
05-31-2009, 02:43 PM
The agenda driven debate of this thread is totally off target on both sides.
I'm Christian and Pro-Life.

What took place today was a dispicable act of cold blooded murder. Plain and simple.

Nothing justifies.
Posted via Mobile Device

Don't bother. This was a right-wing act of terrorism that is commonplace in America today, Bill O Reilly and Rush Limbaugh gave the orders.

SBK
05-31-2009, 02:44 PM
Photo of suspects car at arrest scene, shot by cell phone camera.

Just what I thought, he drove a Ford. I don't trust anyone who drives Ford's--they're all terrorists.

Pioli Zombie
05-31-2009, 02:44 PM
Don't bother. This was a right-wing act of terrorism that is commonplace in America today, Bill O Reilly and Rush Limbaugh gave the orders.

Crackpot much?
Posted via Mobile Device

Pioli Zombie
05-31-2009, 02:51 PM
I'm just saying this was disgusting crime and should be viewed as such. Its not an indictment of any group, religion, or politcal leaning. There are nuts on both sides, with or without the crime committed today.
Posted via Mobile Device

mlyonsd
05-31-2009, 03:07 PM
The agenda driven debate of this thread is totally off target on both sides.
I'm Christian and Pro-Life.

What took place today was a dispicable act of cold blooded murder. Plain and simple.

Nothing justifies.
Posted via Mobile Device

:clap:

Dave Lane
05-31-2009, 03:13 PM
If you want "liberals" who killed people I'd start and stop with Stalin and Hitler. Give me a break.

Stalin and Hitler were liberal ROFL Epic Fail!

3rd&48ers
05-31-2009, 03:15 PM
I hope they catch and fry the responsible party so he can get his reward...

I wonder if the Libs will stand outside of the penitentiary with candles trying to get this guy a pardon when he gets ready to get the lethal injection?




What kind of church allows a member to worship there that does this for a living?

Dave Lane
05-31-2009, 03:17 PM
I wonder if the Libs will stand outside of the penitentiary with candles trying to get this guy a pardon when he gets ready to get the lethal injection?




What kind of church allows a member to worship there that does this for a living?

The kind that accepts differences in people. Just a guess. Bet its not yours.

Saul Good
05-31-2009, 03:27 PM
In the last 50 years or longer (could be much longer, I need time to read about it) in our own country. It is the Right Wing that pulls this shit and you know it.

Earth Liberation Front, PETA, Weather Underground are all conservative organizations, I guess.

3rd&48ers
05-31-2009, 03:28 PM
The kind that accepts differences in people. Just a guess. Bet its not yours.

Yea, say somebody is gay and gets into to church, that would be accepting a difference.... me thinks killing what most church's believe God created in the most horrific of ways is another...

I guess a sin is a sin huh? and eating shrimp is the same as hooking a late term babies legs in the womb, pulling it out feet first except for its head then inserting a steel tube in the back of his head and sucking it's brains out is behavior that should be accepted and understood by all people, especially people who go to Church. I can't believe any Church would be against somebody doing that for a living... what a fool I am for thinking it.

Cannibal
05-31-2009, 03:28 PM
Earth Liberation Front, PETA, Weather Underground are all conservative organizations, I guess.

How many have they murdered?

irishjayhawk
05-31-2009, 03:29 PM
Earth Liberation Front, PETA, Weather Underground are all conservative organizations, I guess.

I think PETA is its own thing.

Pioli Zombie
05-31-2009, 03:33 PM
Once people start claiming that either liberals or conservatives inherantly kill more than the other than they lose all credibility. Just agenda driven idiots.
Posted via Mobile Device

3rd&48ers
05-31-2009, 03:36 PM
Name them. You know that the Right Wing starts killing people when they are out of power. Name some left wing murders.

Theodore Kaczynski

Jenson71
05-31-2009, 03:38 PM
Yea, say somebody is gay and gets into to church, that would be accepting a difference.... me thinks killing what most church's believe God created in the most horrific of ways is another...

I guess a sin is a sin huh? and eating shrimp is the same as hooking a late term babies legs in the womb, pulling it out feet first except for its head then inserting a steel tube in the back of his head and sucking it's brains out is behavior that should be accepted and understood by all people, especially people who go to Church. I can't believe any Church would be against somebody doing that for a living... what a fool I am for thinking it.

I guess some Lutheran denominations don't see abortion as being ultimately wrong. It's probably an issue over at what point the soul comes into being, and they might say at birth, or at 6 months or something.

Dave Lane seems to think that the highest virtue a church can ascribe to is diversity, emphasizing the divisions among humans rather than the similiarites that many Christians value. The bankruptcy of that is self-evident, however, and I would never be a bit ashamed that my Church stands for something rather than everything except something meaningful and hard, usually those controversial topics.

banyon
05-31-2009, 03:42 PM
Theodore Kaczynski

:spock:

3rd&48ers
05-31-2009, 03:43 PM
I guess some Lutheran denominations don't see abortion as being ultimately wrong. It's probably an issue over at what point the soul comes into being, and they might say at birth, or at 6 months or something.

Dave Lane seems to think that the highest virtue a church can ascribe to is diversity, emphasizing the divisions among humans rather than the similiarites that many Christians value. The bankruptcy of that is self-evident, however, and I would never be a bit ashamed that my Church stands for something rather than everything except something meaningful and hard, usually those controversial topics.

I guess I am just a simple stupid uneducated redneck that's never gonna get it...

Yall carry on, I don't think this is a thread I need to be in..

3rd&48ers
05-31-2009, 03:43 PM
:spock:

What ? he wasn't a lefty?

3rd&48ers
05-31-2009, 03:45 PM
Bill Ayers Bernadette Dorn
Janet Reno when she killed that cult in Waco

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 03:47 PM
Once people start claiming that either liberals or conservatives inherantly kill more than the other than they lose all credibility. Just agenda driven idiots.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yup. Some claim people cling to their guns and religion; others just cling to their pacifiers and the government. Opposite sides of the same coin.

banyon
05-31-2009, 03:49 PM
What ? he wasn't a lefty?

Uh, no. His writings were all about how leftism and "oversocialization" were destroying everything.

Read for yourself:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Industrial_Society_and_Its_Future#The_psychology_of_modern_leftism

banyon
05-31-2009, 03:54 PM
WICHITA - A suspect in this morning's fatal shooting of abortion doctor George Tiller is in custody and on his way back to Wichita, Wichita Deputy Police Chief Tom Stolz said this afternoon at a news conference.

The 51-year-old male suspect was arrested about three hours after the shooting without incident on I-35 in Johnson County, Stolz said.

Police did not release the suspect's name.

The investigation is in its "infancy stages," Stolz said. He said the incident appeared to be an isolated act

Mr. Kotter
05-31-2009, 03:57 PM
Uh, no. His writings were all about how leftism and "oversocialization" were destroying everything.

Read for yourself:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Industrial_Society_and_Its_Future#The_psychology_of_modern_leftism

A lot of his anti-corporation rhetoric is what gets him labeled as a lefty by some, but like McVeigh he was actually just another anarchist/anti-government/anti-establishment kook.

3rd&48ers
05-31-2009, 03:59 PM
Uh, no. His writings were all about how leftism and "oversocialization" were destroying everything.

Read for yourself:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Industrial_Society_and_Its_Future#The_psychology_of_modern_leftism

I disagree

The liberal extremist Theodore Kaczynski killed three people and injured twenty-three during an eighteen-year period in the 1980s and 1990s. The Unabomber—as Kaczynski is called—sent bombs through the mail to people he considered enemies of the Earth. One of the Unabomber’s victims was Gilbert Murray, president of the California Forestry As- sociation, a timber industry group. Kaczynski believed that Murray and the timber industry were contributing to the destruction of the environment. Another victim, Thomas Mosser, an advertising executive, was falsely accused by the Unabomber of helping Exxon clean up its public image after the disastrous Exxon Valdez oil spill in March 1989. In Kaczynski’s manifesto, he advocates a revolution whose object “will be to overthrow not governments but the economic and technological basis for the present society.” Many analysts like Ralph R. Reiland argue that Kaczynski took the ideas of environmental groups such as Earth First! and pushed them to the extreme. Far left radicals like Kaczynski, he notes, take the ideas of other extremists and violently act on them. Reiland writes: “In short, the Unabomber was no intellectual loner.”
http://www.enotes.com/extremist-groups-article

Demonpenz
05-31-2009, 04:02 PM
she's a brick and I'm drowwwning slowly

RNR
05-31-2009, 04:03 PM
Yea, say somebody is gay and gets into to church, that would be accepting a difference.... me thinks killing what most church's believe God created in the most horrific of ways is another...

I guess a sin is a sin huh? and eating shrimp is the same as hooking a late term babies legs in the womb, pulling it out feet first except for its head then inserting a steel tube in the back of his head and sucking it's brains out is behavior that should be accepted and understood by all people, especially people who go to Church. I can't believe any Church would be against somebody doing that for a living... what a fool I am for thinking it.
To many this guy was some kind of hero :spock: The guy who murdered him is no better than Tiller. That said I will not miss any sleep over this killing.

Pioli Zombie
05-31-2009, 04:04 PM
WICHITA - A suspect in this morning's fatal shooting of abortion doctor George Tiller is in custody and on his way back to Wichita, Wichita Deputy Police Chief Tom Stolz said this afternoon at a news conference.

The 51-year-old male suspect was arrested about three hours after the shooting without incident on I-35 in Johnson County, Stolz said.

Police did not release the suspect's name.

The investigation is in its "infancy stages," Stolz said. He said the incident appeared to be an isolated act
Non agenda driven post coming up:

Does anyone see the humor/irony in the Deputy Police Chief saying the investigation is in its "infancy"?
Posted via Mobile Device

RNR
05-31-2009, 04:07 PM
Non agenda driven post coming up:

Does anyone see the humor/irony in the Deputy Police Chief saying the investigation is in its "infancy"?
Posted via Mobile Device
I would bet the Tiller clan does not want it aborted

3rd&48ers
05-31-2009, 04:11 PM
To many this guy was some kind of hero :spock: The guy who murdered him is no better than Tiller. That said I will not miss any sleep over this killing.

I guess he was just a really late term abortion huh?

banyon
05-31-2009, 04:13 PM
CNN saying that the guy was a known anti-abortion activist who had prior police contact

kysirsoze
05-31-2009, 04:16 PM
So the suicide bomber that pulls up to the army base and kills himself is not a terriost because he killed men and women in military uniforms?
Terroism is more than just the actually murder, intimidation also plays a major part. Don't you think a major thought in the assisan's head is that maybe he will detur someone in the future from doing the acts that he is against? And that right there is enough(IMHO) to make it a political assisnation.

This sounds more like a military strike to me. Not terrorism. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be a tragic loss of life.

Terrorism has started to take on such a broad meaning that whenever an act is horrible and can in any way be linked to religion or politics, people want to cry terrorism.

Iowanian
05-31-2009, 04:16 PM
Only a Dbag would think this was terrorism.


It was just a 92nd trimester late term abortion. Just like the real thing, he didn't have a say in it and someone else made the decision about the value of his life.


This was murder, by a psycho who didn't like what he was doing.

banyon
05-31-2009, 04:17 PM
Stolz said Tiller was shot in the foyer of the church. There were three or four eyewitnesses, he said. Six to 12 people were in the foyer at the time of the shooting.

Two men attempted to apprehend the suspect, but he pointed a gun at them and threatened them before fleeing, Stolz said.

The suspect's car -- a light blue Ford Taurus registered to an owner in Merriam -- was spotted just south of Gardner by two Johnson County Sheriff's deputies. The sheriff's office had suspected that the man would be coming back to his home on I-35, and the deputies waited for him.

As the car was spotted going north on the highway, the deputies followed and were quickly joined by three other sheriff's patrol cars.

Lt. Mike Pfannenstiel of the Johnson County Sheriff's office said officers pulled the car over just south of the main Gardner exit and got out with guns drawn. The man then got out of his car with his hands up.

"We took him down without incident," Pfannenstiel said, adding that the man appeared to be driving the speed limit and made no attempt to elude the deputies.

Stolz said police anticipate the suspect will be charged with murder and two counts of aggravated assault. Investigators will present the case to the Sedgwick County District Attorney's Office on Monday.

The district attorney's office will determine what charges will be filed, Stolz said. Federal charges are also a possibility, he said.

Tiller was serving as an usher at the church, one of six ushers listed in the church bulletin. He was handing out bulletins to people going into the sanctuary minutes before being shot.

kysirsoze
05-31-2009, 04:18 PM
Non agenda driven post coming up:

Does anyone see the humor/irony in the Deputy Police Chief saying the investigation is in its "infancy"?
Posted via Mobile Device

ROFL

RNR
05-31-2009, 04:19 PM
Only a Dbag would think this was terrorism.


It was just a 92nd trimester late term abortion. Just like the real thing, he didn't have a say in it and someone else made the decision about the value of his life.


This was murder, by a psycho who didn't like what he was doing.

rep

RNR
05-31-2009, 04:21 PM
I guess he was just a really late term abortion huh?
Sure enough!

banyon
05-31-2009, 04:24 PM
Only a Dbag would think this was terrorism.


It was just a 92nd trimester late term abortion.

Would a dbag use the murder as an excuse to score a couple of cheap yuks and high fives and enhance his reputation as some kind of internet tough guy?

RNR
05-31-2009, 04:30 PM
Would a dbag use the murder as an excuse to score a couple of cheap yuks and high fives and enhance his reputation as some kind of internet tough guy?
You are a poster I respect. We do not agree on much but that is fine. In this case many see him as a case of got what he had coming. If they move this to DC I will get into why I have such a disdain for this man.

Pioli Zombie
05-31-2009, 04:31 PM
I can't believe any true follower of Jesus would feel anything but sadness at this act.

Cold blooded murder within the Lords House.
Posted via Mobile Device

banyon
05-31-2009, 04:32 PM
You are a poster I respect. We do not agree on much but that is fine. In this case many see him as a case of got what he had coming. If they move this to DC I will get into why I have such a disdain for this man.

Fair enough, but I wasn't just going to have Iowanian call me a dbag and meekly smile about it.

Iowanian
05-31-2009, 04:33 PM
I guess having a different opinion than yours makes someone a terrorist, or a tough guy.

I'm not surprised to see those words from your finger tips.

The asshole that killed the other asshole is in custody, and will be dealt with by the Kansas Court system. That might be a scary though, given their choices of prosecutors.


I feel about this like I do with say, a gang member gunning down another in a public place.

An asshole is dead and another asshole is going to prison.

It is what it is.

Demonpenz
05-31-2009, 04:34 PM
you can only have terrorism if the guy is muslim

RNR
05-31-2009, 04:34 PM
Fair enough, but I wasn't just going to have Iowanian call me a dbag and meekly smile about it.

I did not know his post was attached to yours.

3rd&48ers
05-31-2009, 04:34 PM
I can't believe any true follower of Jesus would feel anything but sadness at this act.

Cold blooded murder within the Lords House.
Posted via Mobile Device

I do, but I also felt the same for them countless babies he killed, man abortion is horrible enough, but the kind of abortion this guy did was putrid.

KCChiefsFan88
05-31-2009, 04:36 PM
The likes of all those anti-abortion jihad groups, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Cuntler and the rest of the far right has been calling this guy a "killer", "evil" and the "anti-christ" for years now and look what happens, some nut job carries out their hate speech.

the Talking Can
05-31-2009, 04:37 PM
Only a Dbag would think this was terrorism.


It was just a 92nd trimester late term abortion. Just like the real thing, he didn't have a say in it and someone else made the decision about the value of his life.


This was murder, by a psycho who didn't like what he was doing.


he was a doctor, providing legal medical care to women.....and anti-abortion foes have been terrorizing DOCTORS for years....from harassment to vandalism to physical attacks and finally murder....all of it planned and purposefully executed by terrorists like this:

Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, led protests against George Tiller's late-term abortion clinic in Wichita in 1991.
Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue states, "George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama Administration will use Tiller's killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. Abortion is still murder. And we still must call abortion by its proper name; murder.
http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/8967610531.html

if you refer to a doctor practicing legal medicine as a mass-murder then you are responsible for the inevitable outcome...and this language has been used specifically and intentionally for years to dehumanize DOCTORS....

Randall Terry bears responsibility for this, as do all his terrorist cohorts, of which there are many....

Pioli Zombie
05-31-2009, 04:38 PM
I do, but I also felt the same for them countless babies he killed, man abortion is horrible enough, but the kind of abortion this guy did was putrid.

No arguement there. But still I think about Jesus saying "God forgive them for they know not what they do". And I think about the Sermon on the Mount.

Shooting someone dead in a church foyer, or anyplace for that matter, is not the kind of behavior I think we are supposed to feel good about in this situation. Its not going to stop one procedure is it?
Posted via Mobile Device

banyon
05-31-2009, 04:38 PM
I guess having a different opinion than yours makes someone a terrorist, or a tough guy.

I'm not surprised to see those words from your finger tips.

The asshole that killed the other asshole is in custody, and will be dealt with by the Kansas Court system. That might be a scary though, given their choices of prosecutors.


I feel about this like I do with say, a gang member gunning down another in a public place.

An asshole is dead and another asshole is going to prison.

It is what it is.

Going to make it personal now, huh? I guess you really are a dbag.

But no, you ignoramus, I didn't say that having a different opinion makes you a terrorist. Perhaps if you were functionally illiterate you might come to that conclusion. But what I said was using acts of violence to achieve political goals makes someone a terrorist, that's what happened here, and your lame tough guy act notwithstanding, you didn't do anything to address the substance of that argument we were having except to put some sort of Hee-Haw/Larry the Cable guy spin on it.

Mr. Flopnuts
05-31-2009, 04:39 PM
The likes of all those anti-abortion jihad groups, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Cuntler and the rest of the far right has been calling this guy a "killer", "evil" and the "anti-christ" for years now and look what happens, some nut job carries out their hate speech.

HAIL!!!!!!! O'REILLY!!!!!!!!!!

Iowanian
05-31-2009, 04:40 PM
Whatever.

I'm not going to lose sleep over this either way.

I think the guy was an asshole for the profession he chose, but I've never supported anyone killing him. Politics didn't have shit to do with this....only a Dbag would think it did.

Someone did, and they're caught. They'll be tried and found guilty.

Thats fine.

Maybe you'll get to show your talents on this case.....I'll be sure to wait for that episode of Murder, She wrote.

banyon
05-31-2009, 04:40 PM
I did not know his post was attached to yours.

I was the one who brought that up, so I assume he was addressing me. :shrug:

RNR
05-31-2009, 04:40 PM
I would be glad to get into this debate but it belongs in DC IMO