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Cannibal
06-01-2009, 09:35 AM
Hypothetically, if abortion is murder and in the future is made illegal, isn't the actual murderer the female who goes to have the abortion performed? After all, if the women decided not to have any abortions, there would be no need for abortion clinics or doctors correct? So with abortion being murder (the killing of an innocent life), what punishment should be applicable for the women who has one performed?

HC_Chief
06-01-2009, 09:37 AM
If we're talking hypotheticals, the mother would be complicit in whatever infraction dictated by law and charged as such.

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 09:47 AM
While I don't believe that abortion is murder. If it were made illegal and considered murder, she would have be sentenced for the crime, so I chose life in prison with the possibility of parole.

HC_Chief
06-01-2009, 09:48 AM
While I don't believe that abortion is murder. If it were made illegal and considered murder, she would have be sentenced for the crime, so I chose life in prison with the possibility of parole.

More likely manslaughter IMO.

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 09:49 AM
More likely manslaughter IMO.

It is premeditated murder by definition isn't it? It's not like she accidentally killed the baby.

irishjayhawk
06-01-2009, 09:51 AM
I hope someone says "the mere fact she has to live with what she's done is punishment enough."

Saggysack
06-01-2009, 09:57 AM
I'm fairly certain in criminal proceedings the criminal is convicted with the laws that were present at the time of the crime. Since these women had an abortion when the law states it is a perfectly legal option, I don't see how they would be subject to charges of any kind. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure there is a attorney around here that would know more.

Katipan
06-01-2009, 10:00 AM
Doctors that do late term abortions with no life threatening cause can only get UP to 2.5 years, now.

We'll never see our society throwing women in jail for this. Even if the sky falls and abortion is made illegal.

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 10:01 AM
I'm fairly certain in criminal proceedings the criminal is convicted with the laws that were present at the time of the crime. Since these women had an abortion when the law states it is a perfectly legal option, I don't see how they would be subject to charges of any kind. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure there is a attorney around here that would know more.

We're talking hypothetically when abortion is outlawed and is considered murder and many on the Right already say it is. If it really is murder, what is the applicable punishment?

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 10:02 AM
Doctors that do late term abortions with no life threatening cause can only get UP to 2.5 years, now.

We'll never see our society throwing women in jail for this. Even if the sky falls and abortion is made illegal.

See response in # 9.

Katipan
06-01-2009, 10:07 AM
See response in # 9.

See response in #8.

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 10:08 AM
Doctors that do late term abortions with no life threatening cause can only get UP to 2.5 years, now.

We'll never see our society throwing women in jail for this. Even if the sky falls and abortion is made illegal.

So you're going to let a murderer go free without even having to go to court or be charged with a crime?

Garcia Bronco
06-01-2009, 10:09 AM
If illegal you would have to charge murder 1 on the mother and doctor that performed it. I would also be in favor of loss of reproductive rights. Rarely does someone get pregnant on accident. I would add that I exclude rape, life threatening, and incest pregnancies. I don't feel they are legit pregnancies.

Katipan
06-01-2009, 10:09 AM
So you're going to let a murderer go free without even having to go to court or be charged with a crime?

Yes. All by myself.

What is wrong with you?

donkhater
06-01-2009, 10:09 AM
We'll never see our society throwing women in jail for this. Even if the sky falls and abortion is made illegal.

This.

I honestly believe that a SOLID majority of people feel that using abortion as a means of birth control (as opposed to termination due to rape or incest) is wrong and personally feel it is repugnant.

However, I don't think they feel as if it is a crime in the sense that a woman should be punished for it. Just that it is socially unacceptable. Quite frankly this is why I beleive this country will never see Roe v. Wade overturned.

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 10:10 AM
If illegal you would have to charge murder 1 on the mother and doctor that performed it.

Nice to see someone with nuts to answer the question.

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 10:11 AM
This.

I honestly believe that a SOLID majority of people feel that using abortion as a means of birth control (as opposed to termination due to rape or incest) is wrong and personally feel it is repugnant.

However, I don't think they feel as if it is a crime in the sense that a woman should be punished for it. Just that it is socially unacceptable. Quite frankly this is why I beleive this country will never see Roe v. Wade overturned.

So you are in the... abortion is not murder camp.

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 10:13 AM
Yes. All by myself.

What is wrong with you?

Is abortion murder or not?

Saggysack
06-01-2009, 10:14 AM
We're talking hypothetically when abortion is outlawed and is considered murder and many on the Right already say it is. If it really is murder, what is the applicable punishment?

It doesn't matter. In this country we convict people using laws that were present at the time when the crime was committed. You would first have to hurdle that. And then, even if you do that, which I doubt would happen, you would have other considerations to make. What about other crimes committed? Do we reconvict and sentence criminals in prison now for crimes they committed in the past? I think it sets bad precedent in our court system if it were to happen. That's what I think of it.

Katipan
06-01-2009, 10:14 AM
Is abortion murder or not?

Not in our society.

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 10:17 AM
It doesn't matter. In this country we convict people using laws that were present at the time when the crime was committed. You would first have to hurdle that. And then, even if you do that, which I doubt would happen, you would have other considerations to make. What about other crimes committed? Do we reconvict and sentence criminals in prison now for crimes they committed in the past? I think it sets bad precedent in our court system if it were to happen. That's what I think of it.

Think about someone that walks up and kills someone else. They generally get sentenced to at least 40 years. If abortion is murder, I would think that the woman who made the decision to murder her child would get at least that.

Garcia Bronco
06-01-2009, 10:21 AM
It doesn't matter. In this country we convict people using laws that were present at the time when the crime was committed. You would first have to hurdle that. And then, even if you do that, which I doubt would happen, you would have other considerations to make. What about other crimes committed? Do we reconvict and sentence criminals in prison now for crimes they committed in the past? I think it sets bad precedent in our court system if it were to happen. That's what I think of it.

You cannot retro-actively apply laws. It's in the Constitution.

Saggysack
06-01-2009, 10:21 AM
Think about someone that walks up and kills someone else. They generally get sentenced to at least 40 years. If abortion is murder, I would think that the woman who made the decision to murder her child would get at least that.

Nothing. I will never view abortion as a crime. I view it as a sad, and unfortunately needed medical procedure.

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 10:24 AM
Nothing. I will never view abortion as a crime. I view it as a sad, and unfortunately needed medical procedure.

I agree. Just tryin to find out what others think the punishment would be.

donkhater
06-01-2009, 10:40 AM
So you are in the... abortion is not murder camp.

Absolutely not. I just don't think America would ever consider putting a women who got an abortion to jail, even if it was illegal.

After decades of the act being legal, if it were to suddenly become illegal I just think a large part of the populace (despite not agreeing with abortion) would feel guilty about sending a women to jail for having one.

RNR
06-01-2009, 10:41 AM
I voted other as I really have not put enough thought into it to give a answer. I am conflicted on the subject because I do not agree that all abortions should be illegal.

banyon
06-01-2009, 10:54 AM
It sounds like a lot of people would like Abortion to be illegal, but illegal toothlessly. I guess some kind of grand symbolic victory over evil.

orange
06-01-2009, 10:56 AM
Absolutely not. I just don't think America would ever consider putting a women who got an abortion to jail, even if it was illegal.

After decades of the act being legal, if it were to suddenly become illegal I just think a large part of the populace (despite not agreeing with abortion) would feel guilty about sending a women to jail for having one.

In South Carolina a woman named Regina Knight was sentenced to 20 years in prison for child abuse because they claimed her drug use caused her stillbirth. The conviction was only overturned because the medical theory wasn't proven.

A woman in Utah named Melissa Ann Rowland was charged with criminal homicide when one of her twins was stillborn because she didn't have a caesarean section.

Murder penalties for women who receive abortions is exactly where the anti-abortion movement is pointed.


In a 1984 presidential election debate, Ronald Reagan cited the California "feticide" law as support for regarding abortion as murder, asking, "Isn't it strange that that same woman could have taken the life of her unborn child and it was abortion, not murder, but if somebody else does it, that's murder?"


http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=15234

Old Dog
06-01-2009, 11:01 AM
Rarely does someone get pregnant on accident.

You don't really believe that do you?

I would be willing to wager that there are a hell of a lot more accidental than planned.

RNR
06-01-2009, 11:11 AM
You don't really believe that do you?

I would be willing to wager that there are a hell of a lot more accidental than planned.

I would assume he means that if a person chooses not to use contraception they should expect that pregnancy can happen. Of the "accidental" you speak of very few occurred to those who are responsible enough to use easily attained contraception.

Garcia Bronco
06-01-2009, 11:27 AM
You don't really believe that do you?

I would be willing to wager that there are a hell of a lot more accidental than planned.

What is the purpose of sex? To reproduce. Most people don't think about that. If you are engaging in sex then you should expect a pregnancy despite condoms or any other birth control method. There are close to 1 million "reported" abortions each year in this country. Children not given a chance because of women and men who don't think before they act. That's what I mean by it's rarely an accident.

I was one of those men. My girlfriend at the time decided to end our pregnancy. I wish society hadn't given her the choice because we were affraid and lacked the courage to do what is right. It breaks my heart everytime I think about it.

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 12:03 PM
Absolutely not. I just don't think America would ever consider putting a women who got an abortion to jail, even if it was illegal.

After decades of the act being legal, if it were to suddenly become illegal I just think a large part of the populace (despite not agreeing with abortion) would feel guilty about sending a women to jail for having one.

So even if it's murder, they shouldn't do prison time? What's the point of trying to outlaw it then?

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 12:04 PM
I notice not many are willing to step up and say what the punishment should be for killing an innocent unborn child.

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 12:06 PM
It sounds like a lot of people would like Abortion to be illegal, but illegal toothlessly. I guess some kind of grand symbolic victory over evil.

What I am getting out of it is that they don't really think it's murder, or really don't care as much as they are letting on.

RNR
06-01-2009, 12:15 PM
What I am getting out of it is that they don't really think it's murder, or really don't care as much as they are letting on.

For my own part I find the type of abortions Tiller performed were heinous and totally disagree with the practice. It would have to be broken down much more than a blanket "abortion" law as I have stated I do not agree all abortions should be outlawed.

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 12:17 PM
For my own part I find the type of abortions Tiller performed were heinous and totally disagree with the practice. It would have to be broken down much more than a blanket "abortion" law as I have stated I do not agree all abortions should be outlawed.

Tiller did abortions on fetuses that had severe abnormalities. But aside from that, what should the punishment be for a woman who has her fetus aborted in the 3rd trimester then?

RNR
06-01-2009, 12:41 PM
Tiller did abortions on fetuses that had severe abnormalities. But aside from that, what should the punishment be for a woman who has her fetus aborted in the 3rd trimester then?

If it was against the law it would be 1st degree murder.

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 12:43 PM
If it was against the law it would be 1st degree murder.

Is that what you would want though? Life in prison? Death penalty?

RNR
06-01-2009, 01:00 PM
Is that what you would want though? Life in prison? Death penalty?

There are too many variables. To make laws extenuating circumstances must be considered. I think abortions should be allowed for rape, molesting and medical circumstances that endanger the mother. Abortions performed because the baby is just not wanted or would be not convenient (which is the majority IMO) are no different that murder IMO

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 01:03 PM
There are too many variables. To make laws extenuating circumstances must be considered. I think abortions should be allowed for rape, molesting and medical circumstances that endanger the mother. Abortions performed because the baby is just not wanted or would be not convenient (which is the majority IMO) are no different that murder IMO

Ok, so a woman that has her fetus terminated in the first month of the pregnancy because she does not want it should be elligible for the death penalty?

Katipan
06-01-2009, 01:04 PM
There are too many variables. To make laws extenuating circumstances must be considered. I think abortions should be allowed for rape, molesting and medical circumstances that endanger the mother. Abortions performed because the baby is just not wanted or would be not convenient (which is the majority IMO) are no different that murder IMO

Which would just lead to throngs of women crying rape by some unknown assailant.

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 01:06 PM
Which would just lead to throngs of women crying rape by some unknown assailant.

That's true. Although DNA would have a say in the matter.

Garcia Bronco
06-01-2009, 01:07 PM
Which would just lead to throngs of women crying rape by some unknown assailant.

She's have to prove it. With our forensic abilities these days I doubt many would fall through the cracks.

Katipan
06-01-2009, 01:09 PM
Oh please. I can get roofies for $20.

RNR
06-01-2009, 01:18 PM
Ok, so a woman that has her fetus terminated in the first month of the pregnancy because she does not want it should be elligible for the death penalty?

I have already stated that this would be very complicated. I have also stated my stance rather clearly, more so than anyone else that I can see. We could break down instance after instance and it would take quite some time to answer the proper punishment for each case. I have answered your questions yet you have not stated your stance at all.

wild1
06-01-2009, 01:20 PM
Treated like any other premeditated one

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 01:51 PM
I have already stated that this would be very complicated. I have also stated my stance rather clearly, more so than anyone else that I can see. We could break down instance after instance and it would take quite some time to answer the proper punishment for each case. I have answered your questions yet you have not stated your stance at all.

I do not consider it murder, I consider it a procedure and I do not think it is the government's business. Keep in mind that Third trimester abortions are illegal in most states except in cases where it the health of the mother is in danger. Third trimester abortions make up a very small number of abortions.

It is a fact of life humans have had throughout history whether the government says it is legal or illegal.

RNR
06-01-2009, 02:00 PM
I do not consider it murder, I consider it a procedure and I do not think it is the government's business. Keep in mind that Third trimester abortions are illegal in most states except in cases where it the health of the mother is in danger. Third trimester abortions make up a very small number of abortions.

It is a fact of life humans have had throughout history whether the government says it is legal or illegal.

Well I respectfully agree to disagree with you.

Brock
06-01-2009, 02:00 PM
How do you feel about abortions that are forced onto a woman by an abusive husband or boyfriend?

Cannibal
06-01-2009, 02:12 PM
How do you feel about abortions that are forced onto a woman by an abusive husband or boyfriend?

Do you mean forcibly taking them to the clinic?

patteeu
06-01-2009, 02:35 PM
I don't know what the punishment for premeditated murder is these days, but it would be a form of premeditated murder. I'm against mandatory minimums, so I'd give the judge guidelines suggesting the same range of sentences we'd give to someone who committed infanticide and let the judge use his/her discretion.

banyon
06-01-2009, 03:39 PM
How do you feel about abortions that are forced onto a woman by an abusive husband or boyfriend?

If a husband or boyfriend physically assaults the womans uterus and then causes a miscarriage, then they should be charged with aggravated battery and prosecuted accordingly.

banyon
06-01-2009, 03:40 PM
I don't know what the punishment for premeditated murder is these days, but it would be a form of premeditated murder. I'm against mandatory minimums, so I'd give the judge guidelines suggesting the same range of sentences we'd give to someone who committed infanticide and let the judge use his/her discretion.

Wow, you don't think judges getting to decide sentences is judicial activism. Color me shocked at this one. I would've had you at 180 degrees on it.

wild1
06-01-2009, 03:40 PM
I don't know what the punishment for premeditated murder is these days, but it would be a form of premeditated murder. I'm against mandatory minimums, so I'd give the judge guidelines suggesting the same range of sentences we'd give to someone who committed infanticide and let the judge use his/her discretion.

There could be a new classification of crime for murder of the unborn and sentencing guidelines set appropriately.

vailpass
06-01-2009, 05:47 PM
IMHO abortion is a violation of morality, not law or religion. It is not up to one man to punish another for acting immorally. It is up to each man to recognize where he has failed and govern himself accordingly.
I am sickened and saddened by the concept of abortion. At the same time I believe we must love and support the woman committing the act every bit as much as we do the child who never got a chance to be. Perhaps if she is supported, not judged, and shown options such as giving the baby the gift of adoption the number of babies whose life is ended before it starts can decline.

irishjayhawk
06-01-2009, 05:57 PM
THe other option really hasn't borne many viable results. If anything can be ascertained, which is doubtful, it looks like abortion should be illegal but we shouldn't punish those who do.

Therefore, it seems we have the best possible scenario as is.

Saulbadguy
06-01-2009, 06:12 PM
Not only the doctor, and the mother, but wouldn't it get any people who knew about the abortion in trouble too? Maybe a nurse - or whoever disposes of the fetus.

I guess a lot of people would get in trouble. ;)

modocsot
06-02-2009, 01:24 PM
An overwhelming percentage of human conceptions end in spontaneous abortion, with the woman likely not knowing she was pregnant to begin with. http://www.fertilitysolution.com/spontabor.htm

Couple that with the large percentage of pregnancies that end in miscarriage.

With everything being God's plan, how would we sentence him as the biggest abortionist of them all? Just asking. :)

BucEyedPea
06-02-2009, 01:26 PM
I'd rather the abortionist doctor be jailed. Not the victim(s).

BigChiefFan
06-02-2009, 01:27 PM
Last time I checked, the Supreme Court ruled on this issue and gave Americans a choice. Next.

banyon
06-02-2009, 03:23 PM
I'd rather the abortionist doctor be jailed. Not the victim(s).

Why isn't the mother a complicit party?

BucEyedPea
06-02-2009, 03:33 PM
Last time I checked, the Supreme Court ruled on this issue and gave Americans a choice. Next.

A new right woven out off fantasy cloth by black robed dieties with life tenure on a bench. Since when do we get any fundamental rights from govt anyways?:hmmm:

banyon
06-02-2009, 03:37 PM
A new right woven out off fantasy cloth by black robed dieties with life tenure on a bench. Since when do we get any fundamental rights from govt anyways?:hmmm:

Er since they drafted that pesky Constitution thing, I would think. Otherwise, it's one of the basic points of forming a government as John Locke or Thomas Hobbes would explain to you.

SBK
06-02-2009, 03:39 PM
Yes, if abortion is illegal and the mother had one should would be guilty of murder. How is this controversial?

If a dude beats a pregnant lady up and kills the baby now he is charged with murder, what's the difference?

orange
06-02-2009, 05:19 PM
A new right woven out off fantasy cloth by black robed dieties with life tenure on a bench. Since when do we get any fundamental rights from govt anyways?:hmmm:

Curious. What was the Founding Fathers' view on the right to have an abortion?

BucEyedPea
06-02-2009, 05:24 PM
Curious. What was the Founding Fathers' view on the right to have an abortion?
They left it to the states. It's called federalism. Ya' know the Constitution is mainly a restraint against the federal govt—not the states.
They didn't have to discuss "abortion" per se. Anymore than they did sodomy cases.

Pay attention to what was said. Morality and policy powers concerning it, were left to the states.
Such issues were not intended to be federalized using the murkiness of privacy which also isn't in the Constitution per se.

But if you want to federalize it...it would fall under: "Right to life, liberty and property"...and in that order.

orange
06-02-2009, 05:35 PM
They left it to the states. It's called federalism. Ya' know the Constitution is mainly a restraint against the federal govt—not the states.
They didn't have to discuss "abortion" per se. Anymore than they did sodomy cases.

Pay attention to what was said. Morality and policy powers concerning it, were left to the states.
Such issues were not intended to be federalized using the murkiness of privacy which also isn't in the Constitution per se.

But if you want to federalize it...it would fall under: "Right to life, liberty and property"...and in that order.

Abortion "before quickening" was legal in every colony/state. And continued so until ca. 1830. And was totally non-controversial, so much so that they didn't mention it. When the phrase "right to life" was written, fetuses were routinely aborted and no suggestion was made that this practice violated that principle that I've been able to find. Perhaps you'll have better luck.

[edit] Here's Blackstone's definition:

1. Life is the immediate gift of God, a right inherent by nature in every individual; and it begins in contemplation of law as soon as an infant is able to stir in the mother's womb. For if a woman is quick with child, and by a potion, or otherwise, killeth it in her womb; or if any one beat her, whereby the child dieth in her body, and she is delivered of a dead child; this, though not murder, was by the antient law homicide or manslaughter. But at present it is not looked upon in quite so atrocious a light, though it remains a very heinous misdemesnor.

An infant in ventre sa mere, or in the mother's womb, is supposed in law to be born for many purposes. It is capable of having a legacy, or a surrender of a copyhold estate made to it. It may have a guardian assigned to it; and it is enabled to have an estate limited to it's use, and to take afterwards by such limitation, as if it were then actually born. And in this point the civil law agrees with ours.

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendIXs1.html

Pay attention to what was said. Morality and policy powers concerning it, were left to the states.

Religious freedom was left to the states? Cruel and unusual punishments? And what exactly does this mean: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. "

BucEyedPea
06-02-2009, 07:08 PM
I'm not interested in a lengthy debate ( or a hijack) because I don't have the time. But you obviously don't rely on federalism or original intent. So it will go no where. Besides I've done it before.

orange
06-02-2009, 07:18 PM
A new right woven out off fantasy cloth by black robed dieties with life tenure on a bench. Since when do we get any fundamental rights from govt anyways?:hmmm:

I'm not interested in a lengthy debate ( or a hijack) because I don't have the time. But you obviously don't rely on federalism or original intent. So it will go no where. Besides I've done it before.

The fact is abortion was an old right that the framers of the constitution recognized and that its criminalization was a radical change - a change that was reversed by Roe vs. Wade. I will admit that RvW went much farther than the original right, but you must admit that the idea that life begins at conception is nowhere to be found in the Constitution. And more generally, abortion as "murder" is an even more radical and recent concept with no grounding in the Constitution or the later anti-abortion laws, conjured up by zealots purely for its inciting power.

As for your idea of Federalism, I agree arguing whether you're right is pointless - the Supreme Court, Congress, and the Executive Branch - even the Electorate in ratifying the 14th Amendment - have all rejected it long, long ago and your clinging to it as a fetish is irrelevant to any discussion of modern law or government.

Cannibal
06-02-2009, 07:47 PM
You right wingers do realize that if abortion is made illegal and the women who have them are sentenced as murderers it is literally then end of your party don't you???

That's why you can't get anyone in the political arena to admit they want to throw these women in prison. It's also one of the reasons so very few voted in this poll.

patteeu
06-02-2009, 07:53 PM
You right wingers do realize that if abortion is made illegal and the women who have them are sentenced as murderers it is literally then end of your party don't you???

That's why you can't get anyone in the political arena to admit they want to throw these women in prison. It's also one of the reasons so very few voted in this poll.

I think there are a lot of conservatives who would be happy if abortion was illegal and abortion providers were the only ones who faced serious penalty just as there are quite a few conservatives who are happy with harsh penalties for drug dealers even if the users aren't hammered when they're caught. I don't think it's an untenable position to take if your goal is to dramatically reduce the number of abortions in the country. Sure, some women will find ways to self-abort and there would no doubt be a black market of some kind, but if there aren't any overt providers the numbers are going to go way down.

Cannibal
06-02-2009, 07:57 PM
I think there are a lot of conservatives who would be happy if abortion was illegal and abortion providers were the only ones who faced serious penalty just as there are quite a few conservatives who are happy with harsh penalties for drug dealers even if the users aren't hammered when they're caught. I don't think it's an untenable position to take if your goal is to dramatically reduce the number of abortions in the country. Sure, some women will find ways to self-abort and there would no doubt be a black market of some kind, but if there aren't any overt providers the numbers are going to go way down.

It's a hypocritical stance though. The woman is just as culpable in the "murder". It's like a wife that hires a thug to kill her husband. Sure the thug is gonna do life in prison, but so is the woman who hired him. They are both charged with murder per the laws of our society.

RNR
06-02-2009, 09:23 PM
It's a hypocritical stance though. The woman is just as culpable in the "murder". It's like a wife that hires a thug to kill her husband. Sure the thug is gonna do life in prison, but so is the woman who hired him. They are both charged with murder per the laws of our society.

I have to side with him on this. You can not have it both ways. It is or it aint. If you are going to cuff the doctor you got to cuff the mother.

BucEyedPea
06-02-2009, 09:56 PM
You right wingers do realize that if abortion is made illegal and the women who have them are sentenced as murderers it is literally then end of your party don't you???

That's why you can't get anyone in the political arena to admit they want to throw these women in prison. It's also one of the reasons so very few voted in this poll.

The men are all to blame for:hump: and the abortion.

googlegoogle
06-03-2009, 12:59 AM
Miscarriage= involuntary homicide?

BucEyedPea
06-03-2009, 06:04 AM
Miscarriage= involuntary homicide?

by natureónot man

Dave Lane
06-03-2009, 07:45 AM
Personally I think it should remain legal and don't care if it is made illegal maybe a fine of $50 for the doc and the woman.

banyon
06-03-2009, 08:08 AM
by natureónot man

What if the woman does drugs or other things that likely harmed the fetus?

Katipan
06-03-2009, 08:12 AM
Like smoking cigarettes?

Cannibal
06-03-2009, 08:18 AM
What if the woman does drugs or other things that likely harmed the fetus?

Good question.

banyon
06-03-2009, 08:22 AM
Like smoking cigarettes?

I was thinking more methamphetamine.

Katipan
06-03-2009, 08:36 AM
http://www.answerbag.com/articles/How-Does-Cigarette-Smoke-Affect-a-Fetus/c629fdf6-bc13-b8ef-be39-8b9bdb7a894c

"Some 34.6 percent of the smoking expectant mothers miscarried compared to 28.9 percent of the pregnant women who used cocaine."

Granted it's not meth. But I think the point stands.
Cigarettes are legal so it's okay.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2009, 08:40 AM
I know a gal, a professional woman, who smoke and drank throughout her pregnancy.
I juiced beet tops and carrots....daily.

Katipan
06-03-2009, 08:43 AM
I know a gal, a professional woman, who smoke and drank throughout her pregnancy.
I juiced beet tops and carrots....daily.

Beet tops?

You are a better woman than me.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2009, 05:10 PM
Beet tops?

You are a better woman than me.

They're not so bad if you add a bit of apple and carrot to it. Still, more often I would have to hold my nose. But I was the only gal at my ob/gyn who told me I didn't an iron pill. He asked what I was doing because of it.

orange
06-03-2009, 05:18 PM
I juiced beet tops and carrots....daily.

Beet tops?

You are a better woman than me.

They're not so bad if you add a bit of apple and carrot to it. Still, more often I would have to hold my nose. But I was the only gal at my ob/gyn who told me I didn't an iron pill. He asked what I was doing because of it.

I used to juice every day back when I had my dog Ralph. I started for him - I mixed the pulp with his food (usually some cooked variety meat like kidney or scraps). He was getting old and needed a little help with digestion. He lived to be almost 18, so I think it worked.

Use carrots, beets, or tomatos as the base, then add anything and it tastes pretty good. Do NOT drink anything green alone (unless you're one of those who likes bitters).