PDA

View Full Version : Int'l Issues Obama: America is a "Muslim" Country?


Comanche
06-03-2009, 08:18 AM
Obama calls US "one of largest Muslim countries"

ISTANBUL - U.S. President Barack Obama, who is set to begin his Middle East trip, on Tuesday referred to the United States as "one of the largest Muslim countries of the world."

Speaking to Canal+ television in Washington before setting off on a tour of the Middle East and Europe, Obama said he would use a planned speech in Cairo to set out a new framework for American relations in the region.

"And one of the points I want to make is -- if you take the number of Muslim Americans -- we would be one of the largest Muslim countries of the world."

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/world/11784374.asp?scr=1

Compare Obama's recent statement to his statement made in June, 2007.

Obama: America No Longer a Christian Nation
June 23, 2008 by Jeff White

Now that Barack Obama is the official Democrat nominee his past words are coming under more scrutiny. In a June 2007 speech Obama said “Whatever we once were, we’re no longer a Christian nation. At least not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, and a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation and a nation of nonbelievers”

http://www.christianwebsite.com/obama-america-no-longer-a-christian-nation/

HonestChieffan
06-03-2009, 08:27 AM
Don't forget to mark your calendars.

As you may already know, it is a sin for a Muslim male to see any woman other than his wife naked. He must commit suicide if he does. So this Saturday at 4 PM Eastern Time, all American women are asked to walk out of their house completely naked to help weed out any neighborhood terrorists.
Circling your block for one hour is recommended for this
anti- terrorist effort. All patriotic men are to position themselves in lawn chairs in front of their houses to prove they are not Muslims, and to demonstrate they think its okay to see nude women other than their wife, and to show support for all American women.
Since Islam also does not approve of alcohol, a cold 6-pack at your side is further proof of your anti-Muslim sentiment.
The American government appreciates your efforts to root out terrorists and applauds your participation in this anti-terrorist activity.. God bless America! It is your patriotic duty to pass this on. If you don't send this to at least 5 people you're a terrorist-sympathizing, lily-livered coward and are in the position of posing as a national threat!

Comanche
06-03-2009, 10:10 AM
Don't forget to mark your calendars.

As you may already know, it is a sin for a Muslim male to see any woman other than his wife naked.

I wonder what happens if a Muslim male sees President Obama's wife with naked arms and shoulders?

Jenson71
06-03-2009, 10:14 AM
I wonder what happens if a Muslim male sees President Obama's wife with naked arms and shoulders?

As you wonder, I will tell you. Nothing happens.

Sully
06-03-2009, 10:15 AM
He's right.
Good job, Mr President.

blaise
06-03-2009, 10:28 AM
It doesn't really bother me.

Comanche
06-03-2009, 10:30 AM
Nothing happens.

"Hussein" Obama is expected to cover that up!

http://www.hyscience.com/burka.jpg

HonestChieffan
06-03-2009, 10:32 AM
I think Michelle would look better in a veil but thats just me.

jAZ
06-03-2009, 10:32 AM
In a June 2007 speech Obama said “Whatever we once were, we’re no longer a Christian nation. At least not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, and a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation and a nation of nonbelievers”
True.

Comanche
06-03-2009, 10:37 AM
He's right.
Good job, Mr President.

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m376/jeanniejim/Dunce_Cap.jpg

Sully's student dared to ask a question!

Radar Chief
06-03-2009, 10:48 AM
True.

He left out Taoists. I’m outraged.

Fish
06-03-2009, 10:49 AM
Don't forget to mark your calendars.

As you may already know, it is a sin for a Muslim male to see any woman other than his wife naked. He must commit suicide if he does. So this Saturday at 4 PM Eastern Time, all American women are asked to walk out of their house completely naked to help weed out any neighborhood terrorists.
Circling your block for one hour is recommended for this
anti- terrorist effort. All patriotic men are to position themselves in lawn chairs in front of their houses to prove they are not Muslims, and to demonstrate they think its okay to see nude women other than their wife, and to show support for all American women.
Since Islam also does not approve of alcohol, a cold 6-pack at your side is further proof of your anti-Muslim sentiment.
The American government appreciates your efforts to root out terrorists and applauds your participation in this anti-terrorist activity.. God bless America! It is your patriotic duty to pass this on. If you don't send this to at least 5 people you're a terrorist-sympathizing, lily-livered coward and are in the position of posing as a national threat!

All Muslims are terrorists.... nice chain e-mail.... way to perpetuate the hate. I hope you realize how many Muslims are serving in the U.S. military right now fighting for your right to spread idiotic crap like this....

HonestChieffan
06-03-2009, 10:51 AM
All Muslims are terrorists.... nice chain e-mail.... way to perpetuate the hate. I hope you realize how many Muslims are serving in the U.S. military right now fighting for your right to spread idiotic crap like this....

Sometimes its a good idea to not take oneself so seriously.

Fish
06-03-2009, 10:52 AM
Sometimes its a good idea to not take oneself so seriously.

Uhh huh.... from you that statement is a joke in itself....

Sully
06-03-2009, 11:05 AM
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m376/jeanniejim/Dunce_Cap.jpg

Sully's student dared to ask a question!

Are you still crying about something you don't understand, fraud?

Comanche
06-03-2009, 11:07 AM
True.

John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”

John Quincy Adams:
• “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?

Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]

Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech

“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]

Alexander Hamilton:
• Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:
(1) Christianity
(2) a Constitution formed under Christianity.
“The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.”

John Hancock:
• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness…

Patrick Henry:

“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]

Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God?

James Madison

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]

• I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare the unsatisfactoriness [of temportal enjoyments] by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way.
Letter by Madison to William Bradford (September 25, 1773)

http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm

Reaper16
06-03-2009, 11:13 AM
I hope that Comanche gets cancer.

HonestChieffan
06-03-2009, 11:14 AM
I hope that Comanche gets cancer.

Have you ever known someone who had cancer? I cannot imagine under any circumstances wishing such a thing on anyone.

I hope and pray no one ever has to go through that.

Comanche
06-03-2009, 11:18 AM
I hope you realize how many Muslims are serving in the U.S. military right now fighting....

"The military have the same problem as civilian government agencies, such as the FBI; there is a general reluctance to join because Muslims think there is bias against them and career prospects are limited." The piece notes that Muslim military numbers barely exceed Wiccans in the Marines but not in the Air Force.

http://www.aifdemocracy.org/news.php?id=2915

Comanche
06-03-2009, 11:20 AM
fraud?

That's spelled Freud. Perhaps you could learn something about yourself by reading his theories.

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m376/jeanniejim/Dunce_Cap.jpg

Sully's student dared to ask a question!

Sully
06-03-2009, 11:21 AM
That's spelled Freud. Perhaps you could learn something from reading about him.

No.
What I was calling you was a fraud.
I spelled it correctly.

jAZ
06-03-2009, 11:22 AM
He left out Taoists. I’m outraged.

You should take some seriously "non-action".

Reaper16
06-03-2009, 11:22 AM
Have you ever known someone who had cancer? I cannot imagine under any circumstances wishing such a thing on anyone.

I hope and pray no one ever has to go through that.
My grandfather died from a brutal fight with pancreatic cancer. My grandmother died from kidney cancer.

I know exactly what I'm wishing on Comanche.

jAZ
06-03-2009, 11:24 AM
general principles of Christianity
We are a "general principles of Christianity" nation.

Radar Chief
06-03-2009, 11:29 AM
You should take some seriously "non-action".

Oh believe me, I’m going to sit here and not pout for hours over it.
That’ll show'im.

Comanche
06-03-2009, 11:31 AM
I hope that Comanche gets cancer.

One in three Americans receive some form of cancer in their lifetime. It is no joke. It takes someone with a base mentality to even contemplate a response such as yours. You should be ashamed.

Reaper16
06-03-2009, 11:36 AM
One in three Americans receive some form of cancer in their lifetime. It is no joke. It takes someone with a base mentality to even contemplate a response such as yours. You should be ashamed.
No, you should be ashamed for being such a shitty poster. Few things are more shameful than annoying me to the degree that you do.

Pitt Gorilla
06-03-2009, 11:40 AM
Have you ever known someone who had cancer? I cannot imagine under any circumstances wishing such a thing on anyone.

I hope and pray no one ever has to go through that.Sometimes its a good idea to not take oneself so seriously.

Comanche
06-03-2009, 11:43 AM
fraud.


Is THAT the name you called your student when she asked the question in class?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/lawsonkicksass/DunceCap02.jpg

SNR
06-03-2009, 11:44 AM
I didn't read the entire article. Did Obama also say, "Durka durka Muhammed jihad?"

Comanche
06-03-2009, 11:45 AM
I know exactly what I'm wishing on Comanche.

Your vile comment has been reported.

Comanche
06-03-2009, 11:46 AM
No, you annoying me

Oh, its ALL about you? I see. Really, you should be ashamed of yourself for your vile comment.

blaise
06-03-2009, 11:49 AM
I didn't read the entire article. Did Obama also say, "Durka durka Muhammed jihad?"

Yes, then he made a bunch of tasteless jokes like:
"You guys have some spicy food here. I had to set off a car bomb in my toilet this morning. I blew up my toilet so bad I was awarded 17 virgins for the afterlife. No, but seriously, it's great to be here. How 'bout those Jews? What is the deal with them? Isreal? Is-really crazy if you ask me! Just kidding, they're nice folks. Anyone here from Chicago?"

It was surreal.

Radar Chief
06-03-2009, 11:51 AM
I didn't read the entire article. Did Obama also say, "Durka durka Muhammed jihad?"

Ha! Hadji girl rep.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/C_qzEY8R3rU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/C_qzEY8R3rU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Jilly
06-03-2009, 11:55 AM
I'm not understanding why this is such a threat to people.....apparently there is way too much ignorance here to understand:
1. what the Islamic faith is about,
2. what our country's values are, and
3. humanity in general

HolyHandgernade
06-03-2009, 11:55 AM
First of all, the reference you are referring to said "despite what we once were", so I really don't know why you bothered to post all this stuff.

Plus, you forgot the ideas of the Father of the Country:

Every man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience.
-- George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789, in Anson Phelps Stokes, Church and State in the United States, Vol 1. p. 495, quoted from Albert J Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom

If they are good workmen, they may be of Asia, Africa, or Europe. They may be Mohometans, Jews or Christians of any Sect, or they may be Atheists.
-- George Washington, letter to Tench Tilghman asking him to secure a carpenter and a bricklayer for his Mount Vernon estate, March 24, 1784, in Paul F Boller, George Washington & Religion (1963) p. 118, quoted from Ed and Michael Buckner

I had always hoped that this land might become a safe and agreeable Asylum to the virtuous and persecuted part of mankind, to whatever nation they might belong.
-- George Washington, letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp, a Mennonite minister, May 28, 1788, in Paul F Boller, George Washington & Religion (1963) p. 118, quoted from Ed and Michael Buckner

John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”


The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?
-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 20, 1815

As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?
-- John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816

Indeed, Mr. Jefferson, what could be invented to debase the ancient Christianism which Greeks, Romans, Hebrews and Christian factions, above all the Catholics, have not fraudulently imposed upon the public? Miracles after miracles have rolled down in torrents.
-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, December 3, 1813, quoted from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief

God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world.
-- John Adams, "this awful blashpemy" that he refers to is the myth of the Incarnation of Christ, from Ira D Cardiff, What Great Men Think of Religion, quoted from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief

The Treaty of Tripoli
Signed by John Adams

"As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] ... it is declared ... that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever product an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries....
"The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."
-- Treaty of Tripoli (1797), carried unanimously by the Senate and signed into law by John Adams (the original language is by Joel Barlow, US Consul)


Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech

“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]

It should be noted that your above quotes do not reference Christianity directly. The indirect reference to Babel is simply a reference to a popular story. This is because Franklin was a Deist.

I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies.
-- Benjamin Franklin, quoted from Victor J Stenger, Has Science Found God? (2001)

"But the most dangerous Hypocrite in a Common-Wealth, is one who leaves the Gospel for the sake of the Law: A Man compounded of Law and Gospel, is able to cheat a whole Country with his Religion, and then destroy them under Colour of Law: And here the Clergy are in great Danger of being deceiv'd, and the People of being deceiv'd by the Clergy, until the Monster arrives to such Power and Wealth, that he is out of the reach of both, and can oppress the People without their own blind Assistance."
-- Benjamin Franklin, comparing the politicized clergyman with the regular clergyman, a thing which a few have ventured to do in recent times (Ahem!), quoted in The New England Currant (July 23, 1722), "Silence Dogood, No. 9; Corruptio optimi est pessima." quoted from The History Carper, thanks to Ben for the tip!


Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God?

Really, Jefferson? You do know he wrote his own version of the Bible that cut out all the revelation and just saved the quotes of Jesus. In other words, he saw him as a philosopher, not as a Christian, which is what the quotes refer to.

[N]o man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom (1779), quoted from Merrill D Peterson, ed, Thomas Jefferson: Writings (1984), p. 347

Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state," therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.
We have solved, by fair experiment, the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.
-- Thomas Jefferson, to the Virginia Baptists (1808) ME 16:320. This is his second kown use of the term "wall of separation," here quoting his own use in the Danbury Baptist letter. This wording of the original was several times upheld by the Supreme Court as an accurate description of the Establishment Clause: Reynolds (98 US at 164, 1879); Everson (330 US at 59, 1947); McCollum (333 US at 232, 1948)

Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814, responding to the claim that Chritianity was part of the Common Law of England, as the United States Constitution defaults to the Common Law regarding matters that it does not address. This argument is still used today by "Christian Nation" revisionists who do not admit to having read Thomas Jefferson's thorough research of this matter.


James Madison

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]

This above quote is a forgery, even the book Original Intent, which popularized it as a Madison quote later wrote a retraction on this association, just thought you would like to know so you won't keep ignorantly attaching it to him.

• I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare the unsatisfactoriness [of temportal enjoyments] by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way.
Letter by Madison to William Bradford (September 25, 1773)

http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm

Every new & successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance.
-- James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history. (See the cases in which negatives were put by J M on two bills passd by Congs and his signature withheld from another. See also attempt in Kentucky for example, where it was proposed to exempt Houses of Worship from taxes.
-- James Madison, "Monopolies. Perpetuities. Corporations. Ecclesiastical Endowments," in Elizabeth Fleet, "Madison's Detatched Memoranda," William & Mary Quarterly, Third series: Vol. III, No. 4 (October, 1946) p. 555. The parenthetical note at the end, which lacks a closed parenthesis in Fleet, was apparently a note Madison made to himself regarding examples of improper encroachment to use when the "Detatched Memoranda" were edited and published, and seems to imply clearly that Madison supported taxing churches. Quoted from Ed and Michael Buckner

The general government is proscribed from the interfering, in any manner whatsoever, in matters respecting religion; and it may be thought to do this, in ascertaining who, and who are not, ministers of the gospel.
-- James Madison, 1790, Papers, 13:16

Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty, may have found an established Clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just Government instituted to secure & perpetuate it needs them not.
-- James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, addressed to the Virginia General Assemby, June 20, 1785

Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any Manner contrary to their conscience.
-- James Madison, explaining to Congress during the House Debate what the First Amendment means to him, 1 Annals of Congress 730 (August 15, 1789), That his conception of "establishment" was quite broad is revealed in his veto as President in 1811 of a bill which in granting land reserved a parcel for a Baptist Church in Salem, Mississippi (directly above this entry)

The others you quoted were fervent Christians, they were not, however, principle shapers of the philosophical outlook that found its way into the creation of the United States. Important persons to be sure, but most of their ideas were either defeated or the other side's already in place.

-HH

HonestChieffan
06-03-2009, 12:01 PM
Soon the antichrist, the Freemasons, and the Illuminati will get referenced in terms of the founding fathers

Jilly
06-03-2009, 12:03 PM
Soon the antichrist, the Freemasons, and the Illuminati will get referenced in terms of the founding fathers

Why is it such a threat for people to live in your country and be different from you?

HonestChieffan
06-03-2009, 12:09 PM
What threats do you refer to? Goodness knows we have embraced the diversity of every people, culture, and religion in this country from the very get go. Thats not to say we have not had some pretty huge blunders along the way but by far I would put the US very far up the list on the acceptance scale.

Jilly
06-03-2009, 12:12 PM
What threats do you refer to? Goodness knows we have embraced the diversity of every people, culture, and religion in this country from the very get go. Thats not to say we have not had some pretty huge blunders along the way but by far I would put the US very far up the list on the acceptance scale.

You know what? I have to apologize. I misread your first post in this thread as a serious post and have now realized that it is not. I'm sorry about that.

HonestChieffan
06-03-2009, 12:14 PM
You know what? I have to apologize. I misread your first post in this thread as a serious post and have now realized that it is not. I'm sorry about that.

You are forgiven and there will be no points deducted from your final score.

Comanche
06-03-2009, 12:17 PM
First of all, the reference you are referring to said "despite what we once were", so I really don't know why you bothered to post all this stuff.

Actually, I was going to ask you the same question. In fact, I would highlight Obama's comment "despite what we once were". His comment goes to the very heart. It is obvious he believes the nature of the United States has changed since the founding. Apparently he believes Christian fundamental values/beliefs no longer have any place in American governmental philosophy.

Your references on the whole only point to the belief among the Founding Fathers that all citizens should have freedom of religion. I would not dispute that this was a guiding principle. Nevertheless, that principle is not the same issue as the one I presented.

I will give you "props" for presenting your point of view in an informed way. It is a refreshing change from much of the name calling and vitriol that takes place on the forum. :clap:

SNR
06-03-2009, 12:20 PM
Soon the antichrist, the Freemasons, and the Illuminati will get referenced in terms of the founding fathers
You've got to be shitting me

KC native
06-03-2009, 12:24 PM
John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”


http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm

LMAO It is Tom. I had to deal with this same post over at WPI. Thanks for the confirmation Tom.

KC native
06-03-2009, 12:25 PM
First of all, the reference you are referring to said "despite what we once were", so I really don't know why you bothered to post all this stuff.

Plus, you forgot the ideas of the Father of the Country:























It should be noted that your above quotes do not reference Christianity directly. The indirect reference to Babel is simply a reference to a popular story. This is because Franklin was a Deist.








Really, Jefferson? You do know he wrote his own version of the Bible that cut out all the revelation and just saved the quotes of Jesus. In other words, he saw him as a philosopher, not as a Christian, which is what the quotes refer to.















The others you quoted were fervent Christians, they were not, however, principle shapers of the philosophical outlook that found its way into the creation of the United States. Important persons to be sure, but most of their ideas were either defeated or the other side's already in place.

-HH

You forgot Thomas Payne's quotes. He was even more hostile towards religion.

Reaper16
06-03-2009, 12:50 PM
Your vile comment has been reported.
ROFL

Sully
06-03-2009, 12:51 PM
Is THAT the name you called your student when she asked the question in class?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/lawsonkicksass/DunceCap02.jpg
You really have no problem looking like a clown, do you?
It has no effect on you to constantly be wrong. It's weird.

orange
06-03-2009, 12:54 PM
"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782


"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom


"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787


"I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789 (Richard Price had written to TJ on Oct. 26. about the harm done by religion and wrote "Would not Society be better without Such religions? Is Atheism less pernicious than Demonism?")


"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802


"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.


"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical."
-Thomas Jefferson: Bill for Religious Freedom, 1779. Papers 2:545


"Ministers of the Gospel are excluded [from serving as Visitors of the county Elementary Schools] to avoid jealousy from the other sects, were the public education committed to the ministers of a particular one; and with more reason than in the case of their exclusion from the legislative and executive functions."
-Thomas Jefferson: Note to Elementary School Act, 1817. ME 17:419

orange
06-03-2009, 12:56 PM
"The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses."
-John Adams, "A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-88),


"We think ourselves possessed, or, at least, we boast that we are so, of liberty of conscience on all subjects, and of the right of free inquiry and private judgment in all cases, and yet how far are we from these exalted privileges in fact! There exists, I believe, throughout the whole Christian world, a law which makes it blasphemy to deny or doubt the divine inspiration of all the books of the Old and New Testaments, from Genesis to Revelations. In most countries of Europe it is punished by fire at the stake, or the rack, or the wheel. In England itself it is punished by boring through the tongue with a red-hot poker. In America it is not better; even in our own Massachusetts, which I believe, upon the whole, is as temperate and moderate in religious zeal as most of the States, a law was made in the latter end of the last century, repealing the cruel punishments of the former laws, but substituting fine and imprisonment upon all those blasphemers upon any book of the Old Testament or New. Now, what free inquiry, when a writer must surely encounter the risk of fine or imprisonment for adducing any argument for investigating into the divine authority of those books? Who would run the risk of translating Dupuis? But I cannot enlarge upon this subject, though I have it much at heart. I think such laws a great embarrassment, great obstructions to the improvement of the human mind. Books that cannot bear examination, certainly ought not to be established as divine inspiration by penal laws. It is true, few persons appear desirous to put such laws in execution, and it is also true that some few persons are hardy enough to venture to depart from them. But as long as they continue in force as laws, the human mind must make an awkward and clumsy progress in its investigations. I wish they were repealed. The substance and essence of Christianity, as I understand it, is eternal and unchangeable, and will bear examination forever, but it has been mixed with extraneous ingredients, which I think will not bear examination, and they ought to be separated."
-John Adams, one of his last letters to Thomas Jefferson, January 23, 1825.

orange
06-03-2009, 12:56 PM
"Nothwithstanding the general progress made within the two last centuries in favour of this branch of liberty, & the full establishment of it, in some parts of our Country, there remains in others a strong bias towards the old error, that without some sort of alliance or coalition between Gov' & Religion neither can be duly supported: Such indeed is the tendency to such a coalition, and such its corrupting influence on both the parties, that the danger cannot be too carefully guarded agst.. And in a Gov' of opinion, like ours, the only effectual guard must be found in the soundness and stability of the general opinion on the subject. Every new & successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance. And I have no doubt that every new example, will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Gov will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together"
-James Madison, Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822, The Writings of James Madison, Gaillard Hunt]


"An alliance or coalition between Government and religion cannot be too carefully guarded against......Every new and successful example therefore of a PERFECT SEPARATION between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance........religion and government will exist in greater purity, without (rather) than with the aid of government."
-James Madison in a letter to Livingston, 1822, from Leonard W. Levy- The Establishment Clause, Religion and the First Amendment,pg 124]


[i]"t may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the Civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to unsurpastion on one side or the other, or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them, will be best guarded agst. by an entire abstinence of the Gov't from interfence in any way whatsoever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order, and protecting each sect agst. trespasses on its legal rights by others."
-James Madison, in a letter to Rev Jasper Adams spring 1832, from James Madison on Religious Liberty, edited by Robert S. Alley, pp. 237-238]


"It was the Universal opinion of the Century preceding the last, that Civil Government could not stand without the prop of a religious establishment; and that the Christian religion itself, would perish if not supported by the legal provision for its clergy. The experience of Virginia conspiciously corroboates the disproof of both opinions. The Civil Government, tho' bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability and performs its functions with complete success; whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the TOTAL SEPARATION OF THE CHURCH FROM THE STATE."
-James Madison, as quoted in Robert L. Maddox: Separation of Church and State; Guarantor of Religious Freeedom]


"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history [ttempts where religious bodies had already tried to encroach on the government]."
-James Madison, Detached Memoranda, 1820]

HonestChieffan
06-03-2009, 12:59 PM
Pointless

Amnorix
06-03-2009, 01:04 PM
LMAO It is Tom. I had to deal with this same post over at WPI. Thanks for the confirmation Tom.

Christ not again.

blaise
06-03-2009, 01:06 PM
Is WPI the one people pay for?

Amnorix
06-03-2009, 01:07 PM
I dont' understand the problem with Obama's comment. He didn't say we're an Islamic country.

blaise
06-03-2009, 01:09 PM
I dont' understand the problem with Obama's comment. He didn't say we're an Islamic country.

I agree. I'm no fan of Obama but it's called dimplomacy. It's good strategy.

HonestChieffan
06-03-2009, 01:39 PM
Maybe he can tell Kim that we are a Korean country.

SNR
06-03-2009, 01:51 PM
Maybe he can tell Kim that we are a Korean country.Are you honest about your stupidity?

blaise
06-03-2009, 01:52 PM
We're a fat country.

HonestChieffan
06-03-2009, 01:52 PM
Well, yes. I find it much easier than taking your approach and trying to mask it.

***SPRAYER
06-03-2009, 02:17 PM
We're a fat country.

LMAO

Radar Chief
06-03-2009, 02:20 PM
We're a fat country.

That’s weightist. MODS! Git’im.

Thig Lyfe
06-03-2009, 02:21 PM
This thread is the worst thread.

***SPRAYER
06-03-2009, 02:28 PM
http://www.moonbattery.com/muslim-america.jpg

KC native
06-03-2009, 03:35 PM
Is WPI the one people pay for?

For the premium board. I never paid.

Jenson71
06-03-2009, 03:48 PM
I hope that Comanche gets cancer.

Tom C*sh is a cancer. He has spread his ignorance and shrillness many times on this board. And he is ripped out and unfortunately, after a few months, he infests this place again.

SNR
06-03-2009, 04:23 PM
Seriously? Comanche is Tom C@sh?

***SPRAYER
06-03-2009, 04:30 PM
Are we a nation of citizens or are we a nation of muslims make up my mind.

Adept Havelock
06-03-2009, 04:31 PM
Seriously? Comanche is Tom C@sh?

http://www.members.shaw.ca/rlongpre01/moon.html

Comanche
06-03-2009, 05:53 PM
LMAO It is Tom.

Uhhh, its back to the drawing board for you Sherlock. Don't let the door hit you in the azz on your way out BILL!

Comanche
06-03-2009, 05:57 PM
I'm a mean teacher..

DaFace
06-03-2009, 06:04 PM
Seriously? Comanche is Tom C@sh?

I don't think so. Sure acts like him though. But unless Tom's moved to central Missouri and become a realtor, it's not him.

Comanche
06-03-2009, 06:05 PM
"SEPARATION OF THE CHURCH FROM THE STATE."

Your quotations are not to the point. Separation of Church and State is an entirely different issue. Try again.

Reaper16
06-03-2009, 06:06 PM
I don't think so. Sure acts like him though. But unless Tom's moved to central Missouri and become a realtor, it's not him.
He's surely someone's alt, though, yes?

Comanche
06-03-2009, 06:07 PM
This thread is the worst thread.

You said that about the Miss California thread. Think of something new there Perez.

Comanche
06-03-2009, 06:09 PM
I don't think so. Sure acts like him though. But unless Tom's moved to central Missouri and become a realtor, it's not him.

That's just something he and Skippy Town like to say. I don't know what the significance of it is, however. It's just their way of not dealing with issues.

DaFace
06-03-2009, 06:09 PM
He's surely someone's alt, though, yes?

Not that I can see. There's never any way to know for sure though.

DaFace
06-03-2009, 06:11 PM
That's just something he and Skippy Town like to say. I don't know what the significance of it is, however. It's just their way of not dealing with issues.

T0m Cash is a user who has been banned from here a number of times, most recently under the name "Programmer." He comes back for a while undetected, then goes overboard and gets banned again. You have a very similar posting style, so people have suspected that you're him.

Comanche
06-03-2009, 06:13 PM
he infests this place again.

Emulate? Seriously?

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09_04/PopeJohnPaulII_468x484.jpg

Comanche
06-03-2009, 06:17 PM
T0m Cash is a user who has been banned from here a number of times, most r You have a very similar posting style, so people have suspected that you're him.

Well, my only posting style is generally conservative. I like to put up pictures and provide research and links to support my statements. I realize that very few actually post links or any other documented evidence on this forum so I can see how I might stand out.

orange
06-03-2009, 06:43 PM
Your quotations are not to the point. Separation of Church and State is an entirely different issue. Try again.

I merely C&Ped some old messages I had laying around to counter your irrelevant, incomplete, self-serving, out-of-context quotes.

Just like the irrelevant, incomplete, self-serving, out-of-context quote above.

If you want to focus on one quote, how about this one? Relevant enough?

Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

macdawg
06-04-2009, 01:52 AM
LMAO at Obama calling the US a muslim country.

Reaper16
06-04-2009, 02:09 AM
LMAO at Obama calling the US a muslim country.
Not that indulging you would bear fruit of desired flavor, but here goes:
the quote from Obama seems to suggest that he wasn't calling the U.S. a muslim county, rather that the number of Muslim Americans, placed into a hypothetical country, would be enough to constitute one of the largest muslim countries in the world.

wild1
06-04-2009, 02:34 AM
Have you guys not figured out yet that he plays to whomever is in front of him at the moment?


Also, since we're having a comanche pile on, what is with the creepy avatar? That guy is kind of scary looking.

Pioli Zombie
06-04-2009, 06:27 AM
Wtf did Obama say that is wrong? I'm a Christian and I will flat out say, this is NOT a Christian country. Its a free country where people can believe what they choose to believe. And obviously Obama was saying if you took the number of muslims that are in the U.S. And stack it up against other countries we would have one of the largest Muslim populations in the world. Obama haters really need to relax and have a cookie.
Posted via Mobile Device

***SPRAYER
06-04-2009, 06:46 AM
I thought we were a nation of citizens. Make up my mind already.

Comanche
06-04-2009, 06:53 AM
I thought we were a nation of citizens

Some feel the USA should no longer be a country based upon a Christian philosophical foundation. Hussein Obama, on the other hand, apparently believes the country should move closer to Muslim ideals.

http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp238/mlberry_bucket/obamabinbiden.gif

Pioli Zombie
06-04-2009, 07:13 AM
Some feel the USA should no longer be a country based upon a Christian philosophical foundation. Hussein Obama, on the other hand, apparently believes the country should move closer to Muslim ideals.

http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp238/mlberry_bucket/obamabinbiden.gif

Please explain how you come to that brilliant conclusion.
Posted via Mobile Device

Comanche
06-04-2009, 07:16 AM
Hwhat is with the creepy avatar?

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x315/dswinford1/turban.jpg

Cowards hide behind mob support. Since they can't defend themselves individually, they rely on each other for backbone. Dude, you should talk about "creepy avatars". The guy with the SNAKE AVATAR (ooooooohh "scary")!

Comanche
06-04-2009, 07:19 AM
we would have one of the largest Muslim populations in the world.

http://bellalu0.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/obama-bowing-to-saudi-king1.jpg

I'll have an oatmeal raisin cookie thanks.

Pioli Zombie
06-04-2009, 07:26 AM
http://bellalu0.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/obama-bowing-to-saudi-king1.jpg

I'll have an oatmeal raisin cookie thanks.

The dumassification of chiefs planet continues.
Posted via Mobile Device

Comanche
06-04-2009, 07:28 AM
dumassification.
Posted via Mobile Device

That what you got? You got nothin' bro.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p244/image_folder/hussein.png

Comanche
06-04-2009, 07:50 AM
its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."

You are making the same mistake. That Thomas Jefferson believed in protecting the right of freedom of religion there is no question. That is not the same issue as developing a philosophy based upon Christian beliefs/values. I do, however, give you props for researching the subject. :clap:

To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; & believing he never claimed any other.--Letter to Benjamin Rush (12 April 1803)

Pioli Zombie
06-04-2009, 07:53 AM
That what you got? You got nothin' bro.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p244/image_folder/hussein.png

Said the guy who answered me with "oatmeal raisan cookies".
Posted via Mobile Device

Comanche
06-04-2009, 07:57 AM
Obama calling the US a muslim country.

The Obama family dissing Western traditions and kissing Middle Eastern a$$.

http://toppayingideas.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/obama-bow-saudi-king.jpg

Comanche
06-04-2009, 08:04 AM
Said the guy who answered me with "oatmeal raisan cookies".
Posted via Mobile Device

Well, they can't all be gems. :D Besides, the poster said, "Have a cookie". I just stated a preference.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x315/dswinford1/turban.jpg

Reaper16
06-04-2009, 01:01 PM
You working on getting that crippling bout of cancer yet, Comanche? Hurry the fuck up, please. You really can't die fast enough.

LOCOChief
06-04-2009, 01:24 PM
My grandfather died from a brutal fight with pancreatic cancer. My grandmother died from kidney cancer.

I know exactly what I'm wishing on Comanche.

You are a peice of shit! Way to honor your grandfather and grandmother, I'll bet you're the pride and joy of the family you scumback POS

Donger
06-04-2009, 01:27 PM
You working on getting that crippling bout of cancer yet, Comanche? Hurry the **** up, please. You really can't die fast enough.

Charming. Tolerant, diversity-loving leftists unite!

Reaper16
06-04-2009, 01:31 PM
Because my hyperbolic, tongue-in-cheek posts directed at a terrible, value-bereft poster = I am an intolerant "scumback."

LOCOChief
06-04-2009, 01:37 PM
Because my hyperbolic, tongue-in-cheek posts directed at a terrible, value-bereft poster = I am an intolerant "scumback."

Tongue in cheek? You dishonor your Grandfather and Grandmother by wishing such an illness on anyone. Throw your stone and hide your hand, you are a weak person without dignity or honor and you will pay a heavy price for this kid.

Donger
06-04-2009, 01:39 PM
Because my hyperbolic, tongue-in-cheek posts directed at a terrible, value-bereft poster = I am an intolerant "scumback."

Oh, you're just being silly? Okay, that's just peachy.

Reaper16
06-04-2009, 01:46 PM
Tongue in cheek? You dishonor your Grandfather and Grandmother by wishing such an illness on anyone. Throw your stone and hide your hand, you are a weak person without dignity or honor and you will pay a heavy price for this kid.
I'll bite: what ever would be the "heavy price" that I will supposedly pay? That's just stupid.

Oh, you're just being silly? Okay, that's just peachy.
Who isn't being silly with internet death-wishes? Hoping someone gets cancer is even more cartoonishly outrageous than the usual "anti-freeze" or "AIDS tree" lines used on CP.

LOCOChief
06-04-2009, 02:40 PM
[QUOTE=Reaper16;5816759]I'll bite: what ever would be the "heavy price" that I will supposedly pay? That's just stupid.



A person like yourself lacking character and morals would have to ask, ultimately you'll have your answer.

Reaper16
06-04-2009, 03:23 PM
I'll bite: what ever would be the "heavy price" that I will supposedly pay? That's just stupid.



A person like yourself lacking character and morals would have to ask, ultimately you'll have your answer.
Oh.

You mean Jesus.

lawl

macdawg
06-04-2009, 06:04 PM
Not that indulging you would bear fruit of desired flavor, but here goes:
the quote from Obama seems to suggest that he wasn't calling the U.S. a muslim county, rather that the number of Muslim Americans, placed into a hypothetical country, would be enough to constitute one of the largest muslim countries in the world.

Then he is either delusional or lying.

http://www.hajinformation.com/main/d21a.htm

United States 7,393,353 muslims or 2.5%
Guinea 8,047,686
Niger 9,332,750
Mali 11,062,376
Russia 20,078,843
Yemen 20,519,792
Uzbekistan 23,629,052
Iraq 25,292,659
Afghanistan 29,629,697
Algeria 32,206,534
Morocco 32,300,411
Ethiopia 34,700,311
China 37,229,944
Nigeria 64,385,994
Iran 66,657,503
Egypt 72,855,411
Bangladesh 119,785,291
India 129,631,727
Pakistan 157,547,348
Indonesia 212,937,014

Looks enough to constitute one of the largest muslim countries in the world to me!!!!

Taco John
06-04-2009, 06:45 PM
The Obama family dissing Western traditions and kissing Middle Eastern a$$.

http://toppayingideas.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/obama-bow-saudi-king.jpg



Uh, really? You're seriously going to post a picture of Michelle Obama touching the English fake Queen as some sort of meaningful split from Western Traditions? Who cares? You and your precious queen can take a flying leap.

And the picture of Obama. Did you forget that the guy you voted for twice was making out with these guys and holding hands with them on quiet strolls through the courtyard?

http://prophetofdoom.net/pics/Islamic_Clubs_Taliban/George_W_Bush_Prince_Abdullah_kiss_hold_hands.jpg


You bring very little game to this place. It's embarassing.

Comanche
06-05-2009, 08:25 AM
Michelle Obama touching the English fake Queen as some sort of meaningful split from Western Traditions?

The White House has protocol experts on staff. It is a violation of protocol to touch the British monarch without being invited to do so. It is also a violation of protocol for an American president to "bow" before a foreign monarch.

the guy you voted for twice

False assumption on your part. Your hatred of Bush reveals you. You libs can't approach any subject except from the standpoint of hating Bush. Move on.

You bring very little game to this place.

I brought enough game to rile you up! I had enough game to crush you in the red zone!

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x315/dswinford1/turban.jpg

The Mad Crapper
01-18-2011, 02:47 PM
Government documents released on Tuesday show that Saudi King Abdullah gave the Obama family nearly $190,000 in luxury baubles in 2009. That includes the single-most valuable gift reported: a ruby and diamond jewelry set worth $132,000 for the first lady.

Donger
01-18-2011, 02:53 PM
Government documents released on Tuesday show that Saudi King Abdullah gave the Obama family nearly $190,000 in luxury baubles in 2009. That includes the single-most valuable gift reported: a ruby and diamond jewelry set worth $132,000 for the first lady.

I seriously doubt that they kept these gifts. In fact, I'm pretty sure that they cannot keep them by law.

mlyonsd
01-18-2011, 02:58 PM
I seriously doubt that they kept these gifts. In fact, I'm pretty sure that they cannot keep them by law.


The gifts have all been turned over to the National Archives.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iB8KLt4FpqjOt0bO7HzqPiW6fa3w?docId=5b32e78ccfcd434b93dcba7063b741cf