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View Full Version : General Politics Smoke-Free Nebraska


Lumpy
06-04-2009, 09:00 AM
For those of u that are unaware, the fine state of Nebraska went completely smoke-free on June 1st. Oh, but it doesn't stop there. The GASP, (Group to Alleviate Smoking Polution), of Nebraska wants more!

http://www.smokefreenebraska.org/index.html

I often wonder if states that enforce such laws on their smoking citizens realize how much the loss of tobacco taxes will impact their local economy. If the purchase/use of tobacco is eventually outlawed, where will the tax money come from? You guessed it... real estate taxes, personal property taxes, sales tax... all of these taxes will skyrocket.

Thoughts?

blaise
06-04-2009, 09:11 AM
You can't smoke anywhere in the whole state?

Lumpy
06-04-2009, 09:14 AM
You can't smoke anywhere in the whole state?

Not if it's a public place, (i.e. restaurant, bar, etc). However, the law also applies to all privately owned businesses as well.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 09:17 AM
Welcome to West Coast fascism. We've been dealing with this for almost 5 years now. I'm not even going to get started because frankly I've said everything there is to say about it in a number of threads. Zieg, HAIL!!!!!

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 09:18 AM
P.S - Get ready for the attack on fat people and fast food as soon as this crusade is complete.

Frazod
06-04-2009, 09:23 AM
P.S - Get ready for the attack on fat people and fast food as soon as this crusade is complete.

And dogs. Remember, the same douchebags that are scared of a wisp of smoke are really scared of doggies, too. Unless they can fit in Paris Hilton's purse; then they're OK.

Lumpy
06-04-2009, 09:26 AM
P.S - Get ready for the attack on fat people and fast food as soon as this crusade is complete.

I think it has begun. Why must I get a strange look at McDonald's when I ask to Super Size my meal? :deevee:

SBK
06-04-2009, 09:27 AM
As a non-smoker I love going to restaurants and not having to reek like smoke when I leave, but I can totally understand why this upsets people. It would be nice for property/business owners to get to make that choice instead of Uncle Sam....

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 09:28 AM
As a non-smoker I love going to restaurants and not having to reek like smoke when I leave, but I can totally understand why this upsets people. It would be nice for property/business owners to get to make that choice instead of Uncle Sam....

What are you? Some kind of true American? It would be much better to control people's actions according to the things you find inconvenient.

Lumpy
06-04-2009, 09:32 AM
As a non-smoker I love going to restaurants and not having to reek like smoke when I leave, but I can totally understand why this upsets people. It would be nice for property/business owners to get to make that choice instead of Uncle Sam....

I wish all non-smokers had ur views. I'm a long-time smoker and I can 'deal' w/ all restaurants being non-smoking... but banning it in bars makes no sense whatsoever. The non-smokers complain that their health is at risk when they go to a bar filled w/ smoke... eh, what about the alcoholic beverages they're consuming at these bars. I guess they favor liver failure over lung failure. :hmmm:

blaise
06-04-2009, 09:35 AM
I feel the same way as SBK. I like a non smoking environment but I don't see why it shouldn't be left up to the restaurant or bar owner.

FishingRod
06-04-2009, 09:39 AM
As a non-smoker I love going to restaurants and not having to reek like smoke when I leave, but I can totally understand why this upsets people. It would be nice for property/business owners to get to make that choice instead of Uncle Sam....

I don't think you will find a single smoker that has a problem with your view. Why can't the business owners decide what they want to do and then let the customers decide if they want to go to a place that you can or can't smoke at?

KILLER_CLOWN
06-04-2009, 09:47 AM
Didn't you know it was smokers and fat people that have brought our economy to it's knees?

SBK
06-04-2009, 09:51 AM
I am probably not old enough to remember, but was it a big deal when the FAA banned smoking on planes? That would have sucked to fly back then, every time I went somewhere I'd arrive with a sinus infection.

Garcia Bronco
06-04-2009, 09:54 AM
I am probably not old enough to remember, but was it a big deal when the FAA banned smoking on planes? That would have sucked to fly back then, every time I went somewhere I'd arrive with a sinus infection.

Not really, but we didn't have all these 24 hours media jack holes, nor di we have a pervasive internet presence.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 10:10 AM
Everyone adjusted in L.A., in Phoenix, in Iowa. Everyone else will too.

Even the Sheriffs down the street have to stand on the street corner to smoke.

Fish
06-04-2009, 10:13 AM
One more reason to avoid Nebraska.....

Skip Towne
06-04-2009, 10:15 AM
I'll never go to Nebraska now....oh wait, I've never been there.

Lumpy
06-04-2009, 10:19 AM
Everyone adjusted in L.A., in Phoenix, in Iowa. Everyone else will too.

Even the Sheriffs down the street have to stand on the street corner to smoke.

Well if the Jews were able to "adjust" to Auschwitz... :banghead:

All I know is I'm running if my government tries to force me into a shower stall!!!

Katipan
06-04-2009, 10:23 AM
Well if the Jews were able to "adjust" to Auschwitz... :banghead:

All I know is I'm running if my government tries to force me into a shower stall!!!

I totally sympathize.

I used to watch girls leave the club on their smoke break to go hang out on the street in very little clothing and 120 degree weather. Now (well not NOW but like 3 months ago) I watch different poor suckers huddle in snow banks to get their fix.

It's all just a symptom of everything the electoral college stands for.

Americans are far too stupid to govern themselves.

Gonzo
06-04-2009, 10:27 AM
Well if the Jews were able to "adjust" to Auschwitz... :banghead:

All I know is I'm running if my government tries to force me into a shower stall!!!

LMAO
I don't think they ever "adjusted" to Auchwitz. Unless by adjusted you mean different sized lampshades I suppose...

Lumpy
06-04-2009, 10:31 AM
LMAO
I don't think they ever "adjusted" to Auchwitz. Unless by adjusted you mean different sized lampshades I suppose...

I was being facetious Mr. Gonzo... and ur just mean! LMAO

Earthling
06-04-2009, 11:06 AM
I have never understood why there can't be smokers only bars.

SBK
06-04-2009, 11:12 AM
In Georgia some places, The Vortex comes to mind, found a way around smoke laws. Here they don't allow people under the age of 18 in, and then folks can puff away.
Posted via Mobile Device

Katipan
06-04-2009, 11:42 AM
I have never understood why there can't be smokers only bars.

Some of the smoking ban states allow smoking in members-only social clubs and cigar bars.

But a members-only social club can just mean a small donation and a plastic card.

Donger
06-04-2009, 11:48 AM
I'm probably in the minority, but while I don't like government-sponsored anti-smoking initiatives, I really don't mind going out to dinner or a bar and not coming back home stinking like an ashtray. If you can't go a few hours without a smoke and polluting the air that you don't own, maybe you have larger problems than "the man."

Lumpy
06-04-2009, 11:51 AM
Some of the smoking ban states allow smoking in members-only social clubs and cigar bars.

But a members-only social club can just mean a small donation and a plastic card.

Yeah, well, that's where Nebraska's law stands. If it's a cigar bar, u can still smoke a cigar there, but NOT a cigarette. They also still allow smoking in a cigar shop, as long as the shop only sells tobacco-related products. Yet, if u own ur own business, even if it's not open to the public, it is illegal for u to smoke... INSIDE UR OWN BUSINESS!! :cuss:

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 11:57 AM
I'm probably in the minority, but while I don't like government-sponsored anti-smoking initiatives, I really don't mind going out to dinner or a bar and not coming back home stinking like an ashtray. If you can't go a few hours without a smoke and polluting the air that you don't own, maybe you have larger problems than "the man."

Well, the option is now the same for smokers as it used to be for non smokers, if you don't like it, don't go there. My wife and I just don't go out anymore. And we're fine with it. We have many new toys at home in place of having someone else prepare our meals. Sucks for restaurant owners, but otherwise, it's been beneficial for us. I'm just against fascist ideals, and this is without a doubt one of them. No real Republican could disagree with that.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 12:00 PM
Well, the option is now the same for smokers as it used to be for non smokers, if you don't like it, don't go there. My wife and I just don't go out anymore. And we're fine with it. We have many new toys at home in place of having someone else prepare our meals. Sucks for restaurant owners, but otherwise, it's been beneficial for us. I'm just against fascist ideals, and this is without a doubt one of them. No real Republican could disagree with that.

Aren't everyday average people voting for these laws?

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 12:03 PM
Aren't everyday average people voting for these laws?

You bet. But that doesn't mean they're going to pick up the slack for all the alcoholics that will start drinking at home so they can light up with their beverage. Businesses have been put under regardless of what some of the think tank here would have you believe over these laws. Face it, if you have an addiction to something as powerful to alcohol it stands to reason you're addicted to nicotine amongst other things as well.

Really though, that's not what this is about. We're telling business owners that they are not permitted to allow a perfectly legal activity in their establishment because we think it smells bad. That's a crock of shit. Either make smoking illegal, or get the fuck off their property. This isn't a smoker vs. non-smoker issue. It's a property owner issue.

Rausch said it best. "At what point will we stop making laws to counter the things we find inconvenient?"

Donger
06-04-2009, 12:05 PM
Well, the option is now the same for smokers as it used to be for non smokers, if you don't like it, don't go there. My wife and I just don't go out anymore. And we're fine with it. We have many new toys at home in place of having someone else prepare our meals. Sucks for restaurant owners, but otherwise, it's been beneficial for us. I'm just against fascist ideals, and this is without a doubt one of them. No real Republican could disagree with that.

I don't go to places that allow smoking, when I can avoid it. I was in Vegas all week and I stink of smoke. I f*cking despise that hell hole.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 12:06 PM
You bet. But that doesn't mean they're going to pick up the slack for all the alcoholics that will start drinking at home so they can light up with their beverage. Businesses have been put under regardless of what some of the think tank here would have you believe over these laws. Face it, if you have an addiction to something as powerful to alcohol it stands to reason you're addicted to nicotine amongst other things as well.

I feel bad for the small mom and pop shops, but the majority of the restaraunts and bars didn't have a severe negative impact. If it's across the state, it all evens out.

At least they didn't when WE voted for it in Phoenix.

Donger
06-04-2009, 12:09 PM
You bet. But that doesn't mean they're going to pick up the slack for all the alcoholics that will start drinking at home so they can light up with their beverage. Businesses have been put under regardless of what some of the think tank here would have you believe over these laws. Face it, if you have an addiction to something as powerful to alcohol it stands to reason you're addicted to nicotine amongst other things as well.

Really though, that's not what this is about. We're telling business owners that they are not permitted to allow a perfectly legal activity in their establishment because we think it smells bad. That's a crock of shit. Either make smoking illegal, or get the **** off their property. This isn't a smoker vs. non-smoker issue. It's a property owner issue.

Rausch said it best. "At what point will we stop making laws to counter the things we find inconvenient?"

I've never understood the smoking zones outside the entrances to buildings. Why should I have to walk through (and breath) a cloud of tobacco smoke in order to get into a building? If you people need your fix, they should make the smoking area out near the garbage dumpsters.

MOhillbilly
06-04-2009, 12:09 PM
I sure as shit dont want someone blowing smoke my way from 2 tables over while im eating.

HonestChieffan
06-04-2009, 12:10 PM
Imagine someone telling Churchill he couldnt smoke. Churchill would have kicked ass.
General MacArthur please put out your pipe.
Admiral Halsey, you cant smoke on board ship.


We have become weaker and weaker. No one will draw the line in the sand. Are we but sheep? Rise up, be strong.

Lumpy
06-04-2009, 12:11 PM
Mr. Flopnuts is onto something here. Consider this... I was watching the news the other night regarding the smoking ban and they were interviewing a few bar owners. The owners stated that their clientele was made up of 80-85% smokers. What happens to their business after the smoking ban goes into effect? Their profits drop, they close their doors... it's that simple.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 12:11 PM
Casualties of war.

Donger
06-04-2009, 12:12 PM
Imagine someone telling Churchill he couldnt smoke. Churchill would have kicked ass.
General MacArthur please put out your pipe.
Admiral Halsey, you cant smoke on board ship.


We have become weaker and weaker. No one will draw the line in the sand. Are we but sheep? Rise up, be strong.

Yes, being a pussy is the equivalent of having to inhale someone else's weakness.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 12:14 PM
Winston Churchill had no fucking idea how bad cigarettes were.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 12:16 PM
I feel bad for the small mom and pop shops, but the majority of the restaraunts and bars didn't have a severe negative impact. If it's across the state, it all evens out.

At least they didn't when WE voted for it in Phoenix.

Hey, I don't like it, but I believe in the power of the people. As long as we stop kidding ourselves by referring to America as the Land of the Free. It's just not the case anymore. Don't believe me? Go ask a bar owner who can't allow smoking on his property anymore.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 12:17 PM
I sure as shit dont want someone blowing smoke my way from 2 tables over while im eating.

You won't have to deal with it anymore, but I hope you like restaurant chains. That's all that will be left pretty soon. Ma and Pa's cow haven is going under. Quickly.

HonestChieffan
06-04-2009, 12:17 PM
Like you know what Churchill knew. Thats whats wrong with this country. People think they have ownership to everyone elses behaviors and habits.

Soon they will decide beer is bad. Or scotch.


ahhhhh yes its not aproblem if the Ox being gored is not yours.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 12:18 PM
Yes, being a pussy is the equivalent of having to inhale someone else's weakness.

Weakness? I know how bad cigarettes are for you, and I choose to smoke them anyways. Not because I have to, because I want to. That's a conscious decision, not a weak one. The only guarantee one gets in life is that no one is going to get out alive.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 12:18 PM
Hey, I don't like it, but I believe in the power of the people. As long as we stop kidding ourselves by referring to America as the Land of the Free. It's just not the case anymore. Don't believe me? Go ask a bar owner who can't allow smoking on his property anymore.

It's the land of the majority. The majority decides the free.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 12:19 PM
Like you know what Churchill knew. Thats whats wrong with this country. People think they have ownership to everyone elses behaviors and habits.

Soon they will decide beer is bad. Or scotch.


ahhhhh yes its not aproblem if the Ox being gored is not yours.

Oh geez. When he died we were just starting to discover the effects of cigarette use.

Donger
06-04-2009, 12:22 PM
Weakness? I know how bad cigarettes are for you, and I choose to smoke them anyways. Not because I have to, because I want to. That's a conscious decision, not a weak one. The only guarantee one gets in life is that no one is going to get out alive.

Some might consider doing something intentionally that you know does you harm (and those around) a weakness, yes.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 12:24 PM
Some might consider doing something intentionally that you know does you harm (and those around) a weakness, yes.

Yeah, but that's none of their business. They can consider it whatever they want, until we the majority outlaw the act in the name of freedom. You guys are starting to piss me off and make me think you're a bunch of commies, I'm gonna take my ball and go back to work now. :(

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 12:25 PM
Let me leave you with this.

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Donger
06-04-2009, 12:25 PM
Winston Churchill had no ****ing idea how bad cigarettes were.

To the best of my knowledge, Churchill smoked cigars only.

Donger
06-04-2009, 12:26 PM
Yeah, but that's none of their business. They can consider it whatever they want, until we the majority outlaw the act in the name of freedom. You guys are starting to piss me off and make me think you're a bunch of commies, I'm gonna take my ball and go back to work now. :(

It is my business if I have to breath the same air (and I do). Pollute all you want at home. In your car. Etc.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 12:28 PM
The Land of the Free? Whoever told you that is your enemy.

penguinz
06-04-2009, 12:32 PM
Quit smoking and you have nothing to worry about. ;)

Lumpy
06-04-2009, 12:37 PM
Quit smoking and you have nothing to worry about. ;)

We would have more to worry about than u think. What would happen if nobody smoked? Where would our government make up for the tax loss from the sales of tobacco? All of us would see a dramatic increase on all the taxes that we pay. Just food for thought.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 12:39 PM
We would have more to worry about than u think. What would happen if nobody smoked? Where would our government make up for the tax loss from the sales of tobacco? All of us would see a dramatic increase on all the taxes that we pay. Just food for thought.

We'd be burying alot less people. Worm food for thought.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 12:41 PM
It is my business if I have to breath the same air (and I do). Pollute all you want at home. In your car. Etc.

You're either messing with me or you're a socialist. Period.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 12:42 PM
We would have more to worry about than u think. What would happen if nobody smoked? Where would our government make up for the tax loss from the sales of tobacco? All of us would see a dramatic increase on all the taxes that we pay. Just food for thought.

Actually former smokers would see a major decrease in taxes. But, you can always wise up and buy them from the Indians. They're more than happy to sell you cigarettes at reasonable prices.

Donger
06-04-2009, 12:44 PM
You're either messing with me or you're a socialist. Period.

Please tell me why you think it is okay that you should have the right to pollute the air which I have to breathe?

KcFanInGA
06-04-2009, 12:44 PM
Cigarettes are easy population control for the govt. But banning them in public areas just makes sense. However, we have a TGI Friday's near me that has a bar area with a seperate ventilation system and fully closing doors, and you can smoke in that area. I have eaten with my familia there and you dont get any smoke in the main area. Though this is not economically feasable for many mom and pop joints.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 12:46 PM
Please tell me why you think it is okay that you should have the right to pollute the air which I have to breathe?

That's a bullshit excuse and we both know it. I understand the rationale, it's so European. But the fact is, I have the same right that car owners, factory owners, and the litany of other people who pollute the air have. I contribute to the economy through my smoking just like they do. Are we going to outlaw all forms of pollution? What? Are you Al Gore now?

Donger
06-04-2009, 12:47 PM
Seriously, why can't smokers make it through a meal without lighting up?

Also, I think I'm going to urinate on the floor at the next restaurant I grace with my presence.

Buehler445
06-04-2009, 12:48 PM
I live in NE. From the perspective of I can go anywhere my friends go and not feel like I need to pre-bathe before I go into my house.

But from a business standpoint, this pisses me right the fuck off. I don't, but if I owned a bar or restaurant in which I believe that allowing smoking maximizes my profitability, the government just took away my profits and potentially killed my business (you know some bars are going to eat it since they can't smoke anymore).

Anyway, there are certain things the government has to do that damages my profitability, most notably taxes, but this one is BS.

If I own a business, my take is that I should be allowed to allow my patrons to smoke. If people don't like it, they can go somewhere else and I lose revenues. The business owner no longer has that decision to make and it is bullshit IMO.

Donger
06-04-2009, 12:49 PM
That's a bullshit excuse and we both know it. I understand the rationale, it's so European. But the fact is, I have the same right that car owners, factory owners, and the litany of other people who pollute the air have. I contribute to the economy through my smoking just like they do. Are we going to outlaw all forms of pollution? What? Are you Al Gore now?

Now? This isn't a political issue for me, and I don't see why it would be so for anyone. I HAVE to breathe in order to live. You do NOT have to smoke in order to live.

Which do you think should trump the other?

Lumpy
06-04-2009, 12:51 PM
Seriously, why can't smokers make it through a meal without lighting up?

Also, I think I'm going to urinate on the floor at the next restaurant I grace with my presence.

I can and have.

Reaper16
06-04-2009, 12:51 PM
P.S - Get ready for the attack on fat people and fast food as soon as this crusade is complete.
I hope so.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 12:51 PM
50 some odd countries have smoking bans of some kind.

penguinz
06-04-2009, 12:51 PM
We would have more to worry about than u think. What would happen if nobody smoked? Where would our government make up for the tax loss from the sales of tobacco? All of us would see a dramatic increase on all the taxes that we pay. Just food for thought.Just because the tobacco tax goes away it does not mean the tax has to be made up elsewhere.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 12:55 PM
The business owner no longer has that decision to make and it is bullshit IMO.

He also can't sell pornographic material within a certain distance of a school amongst a slew of other zoning things.

There's alot of decisions the public gets to make for him.

Buehler445
06-04-2009, 12:57 PM
He also can't sell pornographic material within a certain distance of a school amongst a slew of other zoning things.

There's alot of decisions the public gets to make for him.

Zoning is one thing that the government is required to do. The porn salesman can go somewhere else in town. The bar owner cannot allow smoking anywhere else in town.

In this case, the only thing they are doing is removing the ability of the business owner to offer a service to their customers.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 01:00 PM
Seriously, why can't smokers make it through a meal without lighting up?

Also, I think I'm going to urinate on the floor at the next restaurant I grace with my presence.

LMAO By all means.

wild1
06-04-2009, 01:00 PM
been this way here for 3 or 4 years it seems like.

pretty soon they'll be bringing a portable machine around to hook up to your tailpipe, and issuing you a ticket to trade it in for one of those wind-up cars.

Lumpy
06-04-2009, 01:00 PM
Just because the tobacco tax goes away it does not mean the tax has to be made up elsewhere.

Ya think? Do some research. Millions per yr would be lost. MILLIONS. If I wasn't busy working I would get u the stats for NE.

wild1
06-04-2009, 01:00 PM
Just because the tobacco tax goes away it does not mean the tax has to be made up elsewhere.

You aren't familiar with the government, are you.

Donger
06-04-2009, 01:01 PM
LMAO By all means.

Are you suggesting that I shouldn't be allowed to do that? If so, why not?

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 01:05 PM
Now? This isn't a political issue for me, and I don't see why it would be so for anyone. I HAVE to breathe in order to live. You do NOT have to smoke in order to live.

Which do you think should trump the other?

Well, we don't have to drive to live. Yet we do. Shouldn't breathing trump driving as well? Or are just picking the things that inconvenience us?

Donger
06-04-2009, 01:06 PM
Well, we don't have to drive to live. Yet we do. Shouldn't breathing trump driving as well? Or are just picking the things that inconvenience us?

Of course it should.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 01:06 PM
Are you suggesting that I shouldn't be allowed to do that? If so, why not?

Hey, if the property owner is ok with that, there's no reason I wouldn't be. If I don't like it, I'll go somewhere that doesn't allow that activity. It's a shame all reasonable minded Americans don't feel the same way.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 01:06 PM
Of course it should.

Then you are for outlawing automobiles in public places?

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 01:07 PM
Ya think? Do some research. Billions per yr would be lost. BILLIONS. If I wasn't busy working I would get u the stats for NE.

FYP

Donger
06-04-2009, 01:10 PM
Hey, if the property owner is ok with that, there's no reason I wouldn't be. If I don't like it, I'll go somewhere that doesn't allow that activity. It's a shame all reasonable minded Americans don't feel the same way.

FTR, I don't agree with or support smoking bans in restaurants or bars if the owners don't want it. It IS draconian.

Donger
06-04-2009, 01:10 PM
Then you are for outlawing automobiles in public places?

No. IC automobiles HAVE to pollute. You don't.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 01:14 PM
No. IC automobiles HAVE to pollute. You don't.

Why do they HAVE to? They're not necessary at all. People can ride bikes, walk, or buy a horse. Why is it necessary?

Donger
06-04-2009, 01:18 PM
Why do they HAVE to? They're not necessary at all. People can ride bikes, walk, or buy a horse. Why is it necessary?

I was simply pointing out that IC automobiles have to pollute. Smokers do not. They choose to.

But, yes, I welcome the reduction of all oil-consuming vehicles whenever possible.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 01:23 PM
I was simply pointing out that IC automobiles have to pollute. Smokers do not. They choose to.

But, yes, I welcome the reduction of all oil-consuming vehicles whenever possible.

You're really against this whole mess anyways. You see the convenience to yourself, and you can argue the point to it. I don't see you voting for something like this if presented to you though. Why? Because, as you've pointed out before, you left the UK to get away from shit like this. Maybe not this inparticular, but these ideals.

MOhillbilly
06-04-2009, 01:23 PM
It is my business if I have to breath the same air (and I do). Pollute all you want at home. In your car. Etc.

I smoke and agree with you.

Donger
06-04-2009, 01:25 PM
You're really against this whole mess anyways. You see the convenience to yourself, and you can argue the point to it. I don't see you voting for something like this if presented to you though. Why? Because, as you've pointed out before, you left the UK to get away from shit like this. Maybe not this inparticular, but these ideals.

I already stated that I don't support it, at least through legislation. But personally? Yes, if you blow smoke in my face, I will respond with a fist. I find it that offensive.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 01:27 PM
I already stated that I don't support it, at least through legislation. But personally? Yes, if you blow smoke in my face, I will respond with a fist. I find it that offensive.

Well, for me personally, I never acted like an asshole with my smoke when it was around other people. But I do understand there is a large level of assholes in the world. Punch away.

Hydrae
06-04-2009, 01:29 PM
If there was a great outcry of public demand for non-smoking establishments some entreprenuer would have already filled that need and cleaned up.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 01:36 PM
If there was a great outcry of public demand for non-smoking establishments some entreprenuer would have already filled that need and cleaned up.

... What do you call it when the population votes yes on something??

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 01:40 PM
... What do you call it when the population votes yes on something??

Impulse. How has it affected sales in these establishments? Are sales up? Then why are restaurant/bar owners complaining?

Katipan
06-04-2009, 01:43 PM
Impulse. How has it affected sales in these establishments? Are sales up? Then why are restaurant/bar owners complaining?

Knee jerk? Read different reports you get different answers.

Cherry pick establishments if you're the restaurant industry and you'll find some that are whining. If you're with the Health Industry you shove reports showing no negative impact in front of your nose.

At the end of the day the majority of United States citizens support a smoking ban.

Red Rover Red Rover Let Flopnuts come over!

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 01:49 PM
Knee jerk? Read different reports you get different answers.

Cherry pick establishments if you're the restaurant industry and you'll find some that are whining. If you're with the Health Industry you shove reports showing no negative impact in front of your nose.

At the end of the day the majority of United States citizens support a smoking ban.

Red Rover Red Rover Let Flopnuts come over!

One of these days, I'll quit smoking. But it'll be on my own terms. Right now, I enjoy it. Besides that though, I have yet to see 1 single restaurant or bar owner get on TV and thank the good people of their state for voting those initiatives through. ALL I've read, or watched is average Joe's lamenting over their soon doomed business. By all means, point me in a different direction.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 01:52 PM
One of these days, I'll quit smoking. But it'll be on my own terms. Right now, I enjoy it. Besides that though, I have yet to see 1 single restaurant or bar owner get on TV and thank the good people of their state for voting those initiatives through. ALL I've read, or watched is average Joe's lamenting over their soon doomed business. By all means, point me in a different direction.

Which direction is west?

I'm on the side of there being specific places for smokers to go. I was married to a Marlboro Red pack a day man. So much of our life revolved around the logistics of smoking.

But I tell you. When we in the bar industry got to throw our ashtrays away we all breathed a sigh of relief. Because in Phoenix it happened all at once. Everywhere in Maricopa County.

People there do not stop going out. Our bars were still packed and still busy. First couple months were an adjustment, but people, industries, bars, lives adjusted too.

All in the name of public health.

wild1
06-04-2009, 01:56 PM
One of these days, I'll quit smoking. But it'll be on my own terms. Right now, I enjoy it. Besides that though, I have yet to see 1 single restaurant or bar owner get on TV and thank the good people of their state for voting those initiatives through. ALL I've read, or watched is average Joe's lamenting over their soon doomed business. By all means, point me in a different direction.

I think you are a little off there.

The problem with banning smoking in bars and restaurants arises when a busybody city council will ban it within the borders of their municipality. This creates a huge competitive disadvantage to the establishments in that area. People who want to smoke will go to a place that allows it, and their non-smoking friends follow them there.

If a whole state bans smoking, then there isn't a disparity. You don't get cut off at the knees by the bar 3 blocks down where people can smoke. There could still be a disparity if there are options across a state line I guess.

I am not in favor of this. I think the business owner should be able to run his or her business however they want. It's a limited government issue.

However, I think the statewide ban is more of an equalizer. When polly prissypants on the city council decided that businesses in her town were going to be screwed, that was when the playing field was unleveled.

Hydrae
06-04-2009, 01:59 PM
... What do you call it when the population votes yes on something??

I call that mob rule. We were founded as a republic to try to avoid just these kinds of issues.

Personally I vote with my pocketbook whenever possible. This would have been a great way for that too happen but the nannies had to dictate to the rest of us.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 02:01 PM
Which direction is west?

I'm on the side of there being specific places for smokers to go. I was married to a Marlboro Red pack a day man. So much of our life revolved around the logistics of smoking.

But I tell you. When we in the bar industry got to throw our ashtrays away we all breathed a sigh of relief. Because in Phoenix it happened all at once. Everywhere in Maricopa County.

People there do not stop going out. Our bars were still packed and still busy. First couple months were an adjustment, but people, industries, bars, lives adjusted too.

All in the name of public health.

I think you are a little off there.

The problem with banning smoking in bars and restaurants arises when a busybody city council will ban it within the borders of their municipality. This creates a huge competitive disadvantage to the establishments in that area. People who want to smoke will go to a place that allows it, and their non-smoking friends follow them there.

If a whole state bans smoking, then there isn't a disparity. You don't get cut off at the knees by the bar 3 blocks down where people can smoke. There could still be a disparity if there are options across a state line I guess.

I am not in favor of this. I think the business owner should be able to run his or her business however they want. It's a limited government issue.

However, I think the statewide ban is more of an equalizer. When polly prissypants on the city council decided that businesses in her town were going to be screwed, that was when the playing field was unleveled.

Let me be clear. More than anything, I support the power of the people. If the people vote for it, that's fine. That's what our country is based upon. But, let's stop pretending that we're any better than say, Iran. We keep preaching democracy over there, but the people are completely against it. Yet, we keep pushing our agenda and calling them evil. We can't have it both ways. We're either for freedom, or we're not. And banning a perfectly legal activity inside of places that no one has to, or is entitled to go into, is nowhere near free.
All I'm saying is, either ban smoking all together, or quit bitching about it.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 02:01 PM
What part of being a republic involves not voting on things?

KILLER_CLOWN
06-04-2009, 02:01 PM
I call that mob rule. We were founded as a republic to try to avoid just these kinds of issues.

Personally I vote with my pocketbook whenever possible. This would have been a great way for that too happen but the nannies had to dictate to the rest of us.

Thank you for being the voice of reason in this thread, The economy is falling to pieces and were arguing over something so stupid, freedom is the answer.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 02:02 PM
Let me be clear. More than anything, I support the power of the people. If the people vote for it, that's fine. That's what our country is based upon. But, let's stop pretending that we're any better than say, Iran. We keep preaching democracy over there, but the people are completely against it. Yet, we keep pushing our agenda and calling them evil. We can't have it both ways. We're either for freedom, or we're not. And banning a perfectly legal activity inside of places that no one has to, or is entitled to go into, is nowhere near free.
All I'm saying is, either ban smoking all together, or quit bitching about it.

I guess I don't understand your complaint.

The people voted on it. Which is something I understand you appreciate. They'll keep voting on it until the only place you can smoke is Puerto Rico.

keg in kc
06-04-2009, 02:03 PM
The people voted on it. Which is something I understand you appreciate. They'll keep voting on it until the only place you can smoke is Puerto Rico.You say that like it's a bad thing.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 02:05 PM
Mr. Flopnuts is torn between his love of his country and his love of his nicotine. :)

Hydrae
06-04-2009, 02:06 PM
What part of being a republic involves not voting on things?

It involves the idea that the people we put in a leadership position have more knowledge than the ordinary citizen. Then these people set the rules, based in part on what the people want. Unfortunately we have gone a long way away from this in this country (partly due to the incompetents we wind up with in office) and we have indeed devolved into a more pure democracy. Pity the minority position on any issue, they have no voice today.

Rooster
06-04-2009, 02:06 PM
Ya think? Do some research. Millions per yr would be lost. MILLIONS. If I wasn't busy working I would get u the stats for NE.

If my health care insurance rates go down then it's a push.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 02:06 PM
It involves the idea that the people we put in a leadership position have more knowledge than the ordinary citizen. Then these people set the rules, based in part on what the people want. Unfortunately we have gone a long way away from this in this country (partly due to the incompetents we wind up with in office) and we have indeed devolved into a more pure democracy. Pity the minority position on any issue, they have no voice today.

Oh for sure. I believe I stated that we're far too dumb to govern ourselves.

KILLER_CLOWN
06-04-2009, 02:06 PM
Mr. Flopnuts is torn between his love of his country and his love of his nicotine. :)

AMazing he believes in personal freedom eh? Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep deciding on whats for dinner.

Hydrae
06-04-2009, 02:07 PM
It involves the idea that the people we put in a leadership position have more knowledge than the ordinary citizen. Then these people set the rules, based in part on what the people want. Unfortunately we have gone a long way away from this in this country (partly due to the incompetents we wind up with in office) and we have indeed devolved into a more pure democracy. Pity the minority position on any issue, they have no voice today.

Unfortunately my lunch hour is over and I have to return to work. Thankfully they still let me smoke on the street corner here in Texas and the weather is decent today.

keg in kc
06-04-2009, 02:07 PM
Mr. Flopnuts is torn between his love of his country and his love of his nicotine. :)Oh wait, no you didn't say that like it's a bad thing.

I'm functionally retarded today.

I thought we were actually disagreeing about something.

I was stunned.

KILLER_CLOWN
06-04-2009, 02:07 PM
Oh for sure. I believe I stated that we're far too dumb to govern ourselves.

I hear China is nice this time of year.

Hydrae
06-04-2009, 02:07 PM
AMazing he believes in personal freedom eh? Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep deciding on whats for dinner.

ROFL

Brock
06-04-2009, 02:09 PM
If my health care insurance rates go down then it's a push.

They won't.

Lumpy
06-04-2009, 02:12 PM
FYP

Apparently someone did it for me. However, my initial post of "Billions" was correct. I was accounting for the entire U.S. not just Nebraska.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 02:22 PM
AMazing he believes in personal freedom eh? Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep deciding on whats for dinner.

Bingo.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 02:23 PM
Apparently someone did it for me. However, my initial post of "Billions" was correct. I was accounting for the entire U.S. not just Nebraska.

When I typed billions that's what I was thinking, the entire country.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 02:24 PM
Mr. Flopnuts is torn between his love of his country and his love of his nicotine. :)

Girl, I'm gonna tie you up and blow smoke in your face during angry sex time. Watch yourself..............

stevieray
06-04-2009, 02:24 PM
smoke free..? hardly..

...don't they still sell and tax what produces the smoke?

keg in kc
06-04-2009, 02:25 PM
Girl, I'm gonna tie you up and blow smoke in your face during angry sex time. Watch yourself..............Dude, if you're shooting dust out of there, you might want to try and use it a little more often.

Sully
06-04-2009, 02:26 PM
I don't like how these laws were created, or that they are in existence, at all.
However, I love smoke-free bars and restaurants. LOVE THEM!!!

...and I smoke.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 02:28 PM
Dude, if you're shooting dust out of there, you might want to try and use it a little more often.

LMAO I'm married brah.

FishingRod
06-04-2009, 02:41 PM
One of my favorite people just happens to be me, so let me quote myself.

04-23-2008, 09:23 PM

"
Yeah I smoke. Is it bad for me? Yes it is. Do I still go to my local pub for a beer since they were forced to ban smoking inside? Yes, but not as often. I do feel sorry for the bartenders and waitresses that complain about how much money it has cost them. I did not feel sorry for the people inside that were bitching about the cold air the smokers let in when they had to go outside to smoke.
Do I really find a ban on smoking some horribly egregious assault on my personal freedoms? No, in the grand scheme of things it is not that big of a deal. It is just another example the nanny state and peoples desire to control their fellow man. The proof secondhand smoke being an actual heath risk is tenuous at best and, is used as an excuse to push through unneeded legislation. Though it is no longer popular to say so, a free market, run on capitalistic principals is really not such a bad way to sort issues like this out. When I was younger I loved going to bars where the music blared, the lights flashed and the lines to the restrooms were long. Now I prefer to be able to speak to the people I am socializing with without yelling. I'm not interested in passing a ban against load music even though it could possibly be damaging to my hearing. I just don't frequent the places very often. By the way I really do find old woman perfume pretty offensive. Have you ever been stuck in an elevator with a pack of old bitties after they have doused their selves in a few gallons of their special toilette water? It hurts my eyes, my nose, makes my clothes stink. Hey I have an idea..."

keg in kc
06-04-2009, 02:47 PM
LMAO I'm married brah.My condolences.

KC native
06-04-2009, 02:47 PM
One of my favorite people just happens to be me, so let me quote myself.

04-23-2008, 09:23 PM

"
Yeah I smoke. Is it bad for me? Yes it is. Do I still go to my local pub for a beer since they were forced to ban smoking inside? Yes, but not as often. I do feel sorry for the bartenders and waitresses that complain about how much money it has cost them. I did not feel sorry for the people inside that were bitching about the cold air the smokers let in when they had to go outside to smoke.
Do I really find a ban on smoking some horribly egregious assault on my personal freedoms? No, in the grand scheme of things it is not that big of a deal. It is just another example the nanny state and peoples desire to control their fellow man. The proof secondhand smoke being an actual heath risk is tenuous at best and, is used as an excuse to push through unneeded legislation. Though it is no longer popular to say so, a free market, run on capitalistic principals is really not such a bad way to sort issues like this out. When I was younger I loved going to bars where the music blared, the lights flashed and the lines to the restrooms were long. Now I prefer to be able to speak to the people I am socializing with without yelling. I'm not interested in passing a ban against load music even though it could possibly be damaging to my hearing. I just don't frequent the places very often. By the way I really do find old woman perfume pretty offensive. Have you ever been stuck in an elevator with a pack of old bitties after they have doused their selves in a few gallons of their special toilette water? It hurts my eyes, my nose, makes my clothes stink. Hey I have an idea..."

Someone else had a post about bars losing money because of the smoking ban. So I'm quoting you and referencing them too (don't have much time to be on here as I'm cramming for the CFA)

Here in Dallas and Fort Worth they enacted a smoking ban that had bars up in arms. Well, a few months later they went back and asked them how they felt about it and they said that they were actually making more money because instead of smoking a lot of people were drinking more. It was quite humorous. If I had time I would find the article but I don't feel like searching for it now.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 02:49 PM
Someone else had a post about bars losing money because of the smoking ban. So I'm quoting you and referencing them too (don't have much time to be on here as I'm cramming for the CFA)

Here in Dallas and Fort Worth they enacted a smoking ban that had bars up in arms. Well, a few months later they went back and asked them how they felt about it and they said that they were actually making more money because instead of smoking a lot of people were drinking more. It was quite humorous. If I had time I would find the article but I don't feel like searching for it now.

Well then everyone wins. I save money by not going out, and the bar owners make money by more people coming in. Good job everyone. Are we sterilizing poor people, and restricting what fat asses eat yet? We should. That shit gets expensive.

KILLER_CLOWN
06-04-2009, 02:49 PM
Someone else had a post about bars losing money because of the smoking ban. So I'm quoting you and referencing them too (don't have much time to be on here as I'm cramming for the CFA)

Here in Dallas and Fort Worth they enacted a smoking ban that had bars up in arms. Well, a few months later they went back and asked them how they felt about it and they said that they were actually making more money because instead of smoking a lot of people were drinking more. It was quite humorous. If I had time I would find the article but I don't feel like searching for it now.

Great Drunk drivers kill people, we had better save people by banning drinking in public.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 02:51 PM
Great Drunk drivers kill people, we had better save people by banning drinking in public.

Absolutely. The dangers are far more dangerous.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 02:52 PM
Absolutely. The dangers are far more dangerous.

Oh, sorry I forgot. This really has nothing to do with health or danger. It's all about how it smells. That'll never fly in public.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 02:54 PM
Absolutely. The dangers are far more dangerous.

It's not just about second hand smoke tho. It's the pretty ribbon on top, but so many people are for it because so many people think you should stop smoking.

That sucks for you. But those same damn people tell me my pot is bad for me too.

So I stay home.

tiptap
06-04-2009, 02:55 PM
Is it in dispute that cigarettes are physically addictive?
Is it in dispute that blood levels of nicotine can be found in non smokers from second hand smoke?
Is it in dispute that cigarette smoking is a contributor to higher levels of cardiac, lung and cancer disease?

I don't think you can ask the addicted person to be realistic about his habit. Saying you like it is not the same as saying you can go without it for a day or so.

By the way move to Missouri. North Carolina, Kentucky and then Missouri rank highest in smoking population. Just following the Boone clan across the frontiers.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 02:58 PM
Is it in dispute that cigarettes are physically addictive?
Is it in dispute that blood levels of nicotine can be found in non smokers from second hand smoke?
Is it in dispute that cigarette smoking is a contributor to higher levels of cardiac, lung and cancer disease?

I don't think you can ask the addicted person to be realistic about his habit. Saying you like it is not the same as saying you can go without it for a day or so.

By the way move to Missouri. North Carolina, Kentucky and then Missouri rank highest in smoking population. Just following the Boone clan across the frontiers.

You could substitute alcohol for all of those things and get the same results. You're for outlawing that too right? How about fatty foods? The list goes on and on. How much control over your fellow man do you want? I have a hunch just enough so you can have it your way, right away.

KILLER_CLOWN
06-04-2009, 03:09 PM
You could substitute alcohol for all of those things and get the same results. You're for outlawing that too right? How about fatty foods? The list goes on and on. How much control over your fellow man do you want? I have a hunch just enough so you can have it your way, right away.

We should ban all knives and forks including sporks because they are sharp and people could hurt themselves or worse someone else.

tiptap
06-04-2009, 03:19 PM
Actually there is a portion of the population that do show addiction to alcohol. They have the same problems in curtailing their addiction. They do have trouble admitting to their addiction. However it isn't at the levels of the addictive rates of tobacco. And there is no second hand alcohol, unless you are a fetus.

FishingRod
06-04-2009, 03:35 PM
"Is it in dispute that blood levels of nicotine can be found in non smokers from second hand smoke?"


Ah yes Levels.


I have been through this a number of times but. When people smoke over years or decades the percentage of any number of health issues can be shown to be higher than those that do not. Lets see, is lighting something on fire and intentionally inhaling the smoke into your body over and over and over and over, healthy? Of course not. I wonder how many lives would be saved if radios were banned from cars and trucks or, at least if we implemented laws forcing the stereo to be unable to be turned up louder than a quiet conversation? The problem with the second hand smoke issue is that the chicken little's of the world run around naming off how many potentially harmful chemicals can be found in the smoke but, make no mention as to their concentration levels. We have people trying to invent 3rd hand smoke where these evil carcinogens will leap from your Smokey argyle socks and seek out and destroy our innocent children. One might want to do a quick study of the smoke coming of our beloved BBQ grills and see if we are poisoning our neighbors. My lord! what if they are vegetarians and not only have to endure the stench of a frying murdered piece of cow but, be exposed to yucky bad stuff in the smoke too? Sorry back on topic, the level of exposure is the key. Arsenic is generally considered unhealthy. Yet some levels can be found in almost all drinking water. Every year we hear about some college kid that died of Alcohol poisoning. Excessive exposure to sunlight can cause skin cancer. Virtually any of our medicines while helpful in the correct dose can be harmful or fatal if taken in excess. The amount of exposure from second hand smoke is pretty tiny and the danger way overblown. We as a species don't always use our heads in looking a a situation. For example; Millions of Humans have died from mosquito borne dieses because we don't use DDT. I have seen films of several of the pesticide spokesmen that would eat several spoonfuls of DDT every day for years demonstrating how safe it was to humans. Did we really trade human lives for fish and birds? Lets just own up to it. We as a society like to make people do what we want them to do and get our jollies out of feeling superior, and in charge of our fellow man.

HonestChieffan
06-04-2009, 03:39 PM
In fact DDT if re reseacrhed tody would probably be on the market. The ugly baby in the backroom is that under new examination, ddt and its link to thin eggshels was debunked. But the science community cant go back...mainly cause they cannot explain what was causing problems with eagles.

Silent Spring, Rachel Carson is all bullshit...but it sure changed how we look at things...

end of hijack

mlyonsd
06-04-2009, 04:00 PM
I don't think it should have to come to this but it's a compromise.

Issue tobacco use licenses to a certain number of establishments mixed between bars and restaurants. Limit the number, just like liquour licenses.

Don't let anyone in under the age of 18, or 21, whichever is the legal smoking age. Make the owner visibly indicate what type of establishment it is you're walking into.

Either that or ban smoking. This in between stuff is just chickenchit BS by a bunch of weak spineless politicians.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 04:01 PM
I don't think it should have to come to this but it's a compromise.

Issue tobacco use licenses to a certain number of establishments mixed between bars and restaurants. Limit the number, just like liquour licenses.

Don't let anyone in under the age of 18, or 21, whichever is the legal smoking age. Make the owner visibly indicate what type of establishment it is you're walking into.

Either that or ban smoking. This in between stuff is just chickenchit BS by a bunch of weak spineless politicians.

I agree with your post from top to bottom.

Buehler445
06-04-2009, 06:26 PM
Knee jerk? Read different reports you get different answers.

Cherry pick establishments if you're the restaurant industry and you'll find some that are whining. If you're with the Health Industry you shove reports showing no negative impact in front of your nose.

At the end of the day the majority of United States citizens support a smoking ban.

Red Rover Red Rover Let Flopnuts come over!

IMO, you're missing the main point.

It is the BUSINESSES responsibility to determine service policy, including smoking. The government removed the ability of the businesses to make that decision. That is my biggest issue with it.

It's like if the government said, "no more salad bars. Salad bars are bad. All salads must be on the menu". So instead of offering a $2 salad bar, the business has to supply a $5 salad because it has lost the economy of scale of the salad bar.

It may very well be in the best interest of the public to do away with salad bars and disallowing customers from gorging themselves on ranch dressing. But IMO, it is horribly horribly inappropriate to limit the abilities of businesses to make decisions. If you want to do public domain places like parks, bus stops, whatever. Fine. That's the government's realm. Disallowing businesses to choose the manner in which they serve their customers is not a good road to go down.

In the grand scheme of things, the impact on most establishments will be negligible. The good bars/restaurants will attract the smoking population anyway due to their service, that's not the point. The point is the government is not allowing the businesses to do what they believe to be in their best interest (whether it is or not), and I am firmly against that.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 06:36 PM
IMO, you're missing the main point.

It is the BUSINESSES responsibility to determine service policy, including smoking. The government removed the ability of the businesses to make that decision. That is my biggest issue with it.

It's like if the government said, "no more salad bars. Salad bars are bad. All salads must be on the menu". So instead of offering a $2 salad bar, the business has to supply a $5 salad because it has lost the economy of scale of the salad bar.

It may very well be in the best interest of the public to do away with salad bars and disallowing customers from gorging themselves on ranch dressing. But IMO, it is horribly horribly inappropriate to limit the abilities of businesses to make decisions. If you want to do public domain places like parks, bus stops, whatever. Fine. That's the government's realm. Disallowing businesses to choose the manner in which they serve their customers is not a good road to go down.

In the grand scheme of things, the impact on most establishments will be negligible. The good bars/restaurants will attract the smoking population anyway due to their service, that's not the point. The point is the government is not allowing the businesses to do what they believe to be in their best interest (whether it is or not), and I am firmly against that.

So what am I missing?

I've argued that it doesn't hurt the industry that horribly, and I've argued that the majority has decided to take it upon themselves to decide what happens to that industry.

I have no idea what my response to Flopnuts has to do with your post.

Buehler445
06-04-2009, 06:43 PM
So what am I missing?

I've argued that it doesn't hurt the industry that horribly, and I've argued that the majority has decided to take it upon themselves to decide what happens to that industry.

I have no idea what my response to Flopnuts has to do with your post.

My point is the law is inappropriate on the grounds that it removed the ability of the business to do what it feels is in it's best interest.

You had responded to mine, but I was too lazy to look it up.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 06:47 PM
My point is the law is inappropriate on the grounds that it removed the ability of the business to do what it feels is in it's best interest.

I believe you. Now what? This is the way it is.

keg in kc
06-04-2009, 06:51 PM
My point is the law is inappropriate on the grounds that it removed the ability of the business to do what it feels is in it's best interest. Can it be looked at as a public health issue? I mean, you might argue that health department inspections aren't in a business' best interest, either, limiting their ability to make a profit by not allowing them to take money-making shortcuts around annoying things like pest control and cleaning.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 06:51 PM
It's not just about second hand smoke tho. It's the pretty ribbon on top, but so many people are for it because so many people think you should stop smoking.

That sucks for you. But those same damn people tell me my pot is bad for me too.

So I stay home.

I'm oppressed on that front as well. They all go out, get drunk, and then drive home all the while wagging their drunken finger at me for smoking weed.

And FTR, I'm sorely disappointed my angry sex comment got no response from you.

splatbass
06-04-2009, 06:52 PM
I don't think you will find a single smoker that has a problem with your view. Why can't the business owners decide what they want to do and then let the customers decide if they want to go to a place that you can or can't smoke at?

Exactly.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 06:56 PM
I'm oppressed on that front as well. They all go out, get drunk, and then drive home all the while wagging their drunken finger at me for smoking weed.

And FTR, I'm sorely disappointed my angry sex comment got no response from you.

I get set up that way. I flirt back and all of a sudden it's a thread about muddy ass polo.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 06:59 PM
I get set up that way. I flirt back and all of a sudden it's a thread about muddy ass polo.

LMAO Fair enough, I've seen it happen. But don't think for one red hot second that will stop me from making a similar comment at another time. I haven't ever really done that with CP's females in the past, what can I say? You inspire me.

Katipan
06-04-2009, 07:01 PM
LMAO Fair enough, I've seen it happen. But don't think for one red hot second that will stop me from making a similar comment at another time. I haven't ever really done that with CP's females in the past, what can I say? You inspire me.

oh God. It's really Mrs. Flopnuts posting, huh??

Lumpy
06-04-2009, 07:01 PM
WTF happened to my thread?! U bastards! LMAO

keg in kc
06-04-2009, 07:08 PM
oh God. It's really Mrs. Flopnuts posting, huh??If it's not, she's watching over his shoulder.

Psyko Tek
06-04-2009, 07:15 PM
first My Dad owns a bar in nebraska
Dave and Sugar's Turn One Geneva, Nebraska stop by tell them Brad says hey

he thinks this is gonna kill him
but when in podunk nebraska you choices are watch the crops grow or drink and watch the crops grow

I smoke trying to quit but I become a raging asshole
usually I am just an asshole

I don't like the fact private businesses have the choice taken away fromthem

not onlydoes smoking raise tax revenue, but it kills us off before we can collect social security

does anybody know WTF happened to my sig
it was batman lego
now I got some jerk off in headphones?


I was in phoenix when the bans happened quit going to most bars
was in colorado springs when there ban went through quit going to bars

but I am only one man who will stand with me

now wtdff happened to my sig am I being fucked with?

Katipan
06-04-2009, 07:18 PM
first My Dad owns a bar in nebraska
Dave and Sugar's Turn One Geneva, Nebraska stop by tell them Brad says hey

he thinks this is gonna kill him
but when in podunk nebraska you choices are watch the crops grow or drink and watch the crops grow

I smoke trying to quit but I become a raging asshole
usually I am just an asshole

I don't like the fact private businesses have the choice taken away fromthem

not onlydoes smoking raise tax revenue, but it kills us off before we can collect social security

does anybody know WTF happened to my sig
it was batman lego
now I got some jerk off in headphones?


I was in phoenix when the bans happened quit going to most bars
was in colorado springs when there ban went through quit going to bars

but I am only one man who will stand with me

LMAO

fucking awesome post

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 07:21 PM
oh God. It's really Mrs. Flopnuts posting, huh??

If it's not, she's watching over his shoulder.

You guys could really fuck someone over who has his wife sitting over his shoulder.

keg in kc
06-04-2009, 07:22 PM
You guys could really **** someone over who has his wife sitting over his shoulder.20 bucks and I won't show her those pms where you were begging to lick my starfish.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-04-2009, 07:23 PM
20 bucks and I won't show her those pms where you were begging to lick my starfish.

LMAO
















































Check your paypal.

Buehler445
06-04-2009, 07:33 PM
I believe you. Now what? This is the way it is.

I suppose. Unless you have any other aspects of the topic you'd like to bring up.
Posted via Mobile Device

Buehler445
06-04-2009, 07:39 PM
Can it be looked at as a public health issue? I mean, you might argue that health department inspections aren't in a business' best interest, either, limiting their ability to make a profit by not allowing them to take money-making shortcuts around annoying things like pest control and cleaning.

Eh potentially. But that isn't the basis of the imolementation. Fitting it into public health standards would have been a much easier way to go.

Honestly though, I think the connection is weak. One exposure to e-coli can fuck you up good. Unless you're severe asthmatic or something, you're probably not going to get in too much harm from second hand smoke once.
Posted via Mobile Device

splatbass
06-04-2009, 08:30 PM
If you can't go a few hours without a smoke and polluting the air that you don't own, maybe you have larger problems than "the man."

I take it you have never smoked? In case you haven't heard, nicotine is very addictive, and when you go without it for a while you start to have very strong and unpleasant cravings. "A few hours" is a long time for a smoker.

Psyko Tek
06-05-2009, 10:43 PM
LMAO

fucking awesome post

so you want me now?