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HonestChieffan
06-04-2009, 03:21 PM
A lawmaker belonging to the Hezbollah militant organization on Thursday dismissed a speech given by United States President Barack Obama earlier in Cairo as being like a "sermon," without signaling real change.

"The Islamic world does not need moral or political sermons. It needs a fundamental change in American policy," said Lebanese MP Hassan Fadlallah.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1090405.html

Seems that they were perhaps not so smitten as the media.

VAChief
06-04-2009, 04:01 PM
A lawmaker belonging to the Hezbollah militant organization on Thursday dismissed a speech given by United States President Barack Obama earlier in Cairo as being like a "sermon," without signaling real change.

"The Islamic world does not need moral or political sermons. It needs a fundamental change in American policy," said Lebanese MP Hassan Fadlallah.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1090405.html

Seems that they were perhaps not so smitten as the media.

Well I guess you can take comfort in what the Hezbollah think.

jAZ
06-04-2009, 04:12 PM
A lawmaker belonging to the Hezbollah militant organization on Thursday dismissed a speech given by United States President Barack Obama earlier in Cairo as being like a "sermon," without signaling real change.

"The Islamic world does not need moral or political sermons. It needs a fundamental change in American policy," said Lebanese MP Hassan Fadlallah.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1090405.html

Seems that they were perhaps not so smitten as the media.

This speech wasn't targeted at politicians in any country. It was designed to go around the organizational leaders and talk to the public and put grass-roots pressure on those in elected office.

An official statement from Hezbollah doesn't reflect that opinion of the intended audience.

HonestChieffan
06-04-2009, 04:14 PM
spin like a top jiz

Donger
06-04-2009, 04:15 PM
Well I guess you can take comfort in what the Hezbollah think.

Comfort? No, but I presume you aren't dismissing them.

Donger
06-04-2009, 04:16 PM
This speech wasn't targeted at politicians in any country. It was designed to go around the organizational leaders and talk to the public and put grass-roots pressure on those in elected office.

An official statement from Hezbollah doesn't reflect that opinion of the intended audience.

Grass roots, ME-style, eh?

mlyonsd
06-04-2009, 04:20 PM
This speech wasn't targeted at politicians in any country. It was designed to go around the organizational leaders and talk to the public and put grass-roots pressure on those in elected office.

An official statement from Hezbollah doesn't reflect that opinion of the intended audience.

I've always said that Islamic extremist terrorism will only be stopped when the Muslim community stops it because we can't.

That being said I think Obama's speech was a good one and I'll give him credit if he can bypass religious leaders and their people stand up to their leaders.

Obama's rock star status was used well today. I hope it works.

jAZ
06-04-2009, 04:33 PM
spin like a top jiz

Feel free to edit your opening post with the following additional comments.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/06/reaction_to_obamas_speech_to_the_muslim_world.php?ref=fpb

Reaction to President Obama's speech to the Muslim world

The Associated Press
AP News

Jun 04, 2009 08:46 EST

Notable reaction to President Barack Obama's speech Thursday to the Muslim world:

___

"President Obama is a brave president. ... We hope he will open a new chapter with the Islamic world and Arab nations in particular." — Mithwan Hussein, a Baghdad resident.

___

"Bush and Clinton said the same about a Palestinian state, but they've done nothing, so why should we believe this guy?" — Ali Tottah, 82, a Palestinian refugee speaking at the Baqaa refugee camp in Jordan.

___

"There is a change between the speech of President Obama and previous speeches made by George Bush. But today's remarks at Cairo University were based on soft diplomacy to brighten the image of the United States." — Fawzi Barhoum, a Hamas spokesman in Gaza.

___

"Obama's speech is an attempt to mislead people and create more illusions to improve America's aggressive image in the Arab and Islamic world." — A joint statement by eight Damascus, Syria-based radical Palestinian factions, including Hamas.

___

"Why did he not come here to Gaza, instead of going to Egypt? He is welcome to come and see, to inspect with his own eyes, to see the war crimes and the new Holocaust." — Mohammed Khader, 47, whose house in Gaza was leveled by Israeli troops during the recent three-week offensive against Hamas.

___

"It was actually better than we expected, but not as good as we hoped. ... His stance on democracy was very general, a bit weak, we hoped for more detail." — Ayman Nour, an Egyptian dissident recently released from prison.

___

"I grew up as a Muslim, and some religious leaders told us to hate other people. So he was speaking directly at me, telling us to stop hating Israelis and Jews. He is the most powerful man in the world and millions of people around the Middle East will see hope in what he said." — Hani Ameer, an Iraqi immigrant in London.

___

"It still was a speech about what America wants. Maybe that's only natural, because he wants to protect American interests in the region. ... But I really do believe he envisions a world that is pluralistic, where different religions can live peacefully together, with respect, as he himself experienced in Indonesia." — Edi Kusyanto, a teacher at the school in Indonesia where Obama went as a child.

___

"Obama's attempt was positive but not effective. As long as the U.S is supporting Israel there will be no hope for better U.S.-Islamic relations." — Niloofar Mirmohebi, an Iranian student in Tehran.

___

"The part of Obama's speech regarding the Palestinian issue is an important step under new beginnings. ... This is the beginning of a new American policy and this policy is creating a new atmosphere to build the Palestinian state." — Nabil Abu Rdeneh, a spokesman for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

___

"He was very generous in his comments about Islam's contributions to civilization. ... There also hasn't really been any other Western leader who has expressed such commitment to fighting negative stereotypes regarding Muslims." — Chandra Muzaffar, president of the International Movement for a Just World think-tank in Malaysia.

___

"This vision is so out of touch with reality. ... You can have your speechwriters find every good thing a Muslim has every done. But more modern history is that the Muslim world is at war with the Western world." — Aliza Herbst, 56, a spokeswoman for Yesha, the West Bank settlers' council.

___

"It was very positive. A president with the middle name of Hussein being in Cairo talking about collaboration means a lot for Muslims." — Malek Sitez, an international law expert in Kabul, Afghanistan.

___

"It's one of the most important speeches ever delivered, a key speech for changing the climate in the Middle East. Israel will make a big mistake if it ignores it." — Yuli Tamir, a dovish Israeli lawmaker.

___

"I challenge any Arab leader to go to the U.S. or the West and quote the Bible like Obama quoted the Quran." — Rabah al-Mutawa, a Saudi woman in Riyadh.

___

"Whatever wounds America has inflicted on the world, they are very deep and they cannot be erased away by only one speech." — Pakistani political analyst Siraj Wahab, speaking on Aaj TV.

___

"This is the first president we see in the United States that is talking about the Palestinian issue, resolving the Palestinian issue in the first six months of his presidency. Usually, it's in the last two months of the presidency." — Saad Hariri, leader of Lebanon's parliamentary majority.

VAChief
06-04-2009, 04:37 PM
Comfort? No, but I presume you aren't dismissing them.

I wouldn't expect them to embrace him, do they ever embrace an American President? I guess I am puzzled this is a surprise. I have a strong suspicion that had they come out with praise the thread title would have read "Obama praised by terrorists!"

HonestChieffan
06-04-2009, 04:41 PM
if you ignore negatives they do not exist.

jAZ
06-04-2009, 04:41 PM
I have a strong suspicion that had they come out with praise the thread title would have read "Obama praised by terrorists!"

There would be a 200 post thread on the subject.

HonestChieffan
06-04-2009, 04:45 PM
CNN will have it thats great

blaise
06-04-2009, 04:48 PM
Like I said in the other thread, the words are fine but I think a lot of people in that part of the world only see Isreal and the U.S. as one and that's all they'll ever see.

Taco John
06-04-2009, 05:10 PM
This speech wasn't targeted at politicians in any country. It was designed to go around the organizational leaders and talk to the public and put grass-roots pressure on those in elected office.

An official statement from Hezbollah doesn't reflect that opinion of the intended audience.


spin like a top jiz



He's right though. The only way you can see it though is if you take off your partisan glasses, and look at America and the message that Obama is delivering in the best light possible: America as the beacon of hope.

This speech was intended to be a blow at the foundation of the radical groups, not an appeal for the radical groups to see it our way. It's intended to soften the younger minds away from radicalizm.

Will it work? Who knows. But official statements from Hezbollah are hardly the indicator of whether or not the approach will be successful.

SBK
06-04-2009, 05:55 PM
The folks that have a problem with America are the leaders and the extremists. The common man views us as ok folks.
Posted via Mobile Device

VAChief
06-04-2009, 07:03 PM
The folks that have a problem with America are the leaders and the extremists. The common man views us as ok folks.
Posted via Mobile Device

You forgot Rush Hudson III...strange bedfellows, but cowards tend to think alike I suppose.

SBK
06-04-2009, 10:28 PM
You forgot Rush Hudson III...strange bedfellows, but cowards tend to think alike I suppose.

wtf does this mean?

VAChief
06-04-2009, 10:39 PM
wtf does this mean?

I agree with you...and we have our own extremists

SBK
06-04-2009, 10:41 PM
I agree with you...and we have our own extremists

Every nation does. I've been over to Israel into the Palestinian territories, and they love Americans. The gov't they take issue with, but as far as the people go we are well liked, respected (and our money they REALLY love)... :D

BigRedChief
06-05-2009, 06:26 AM
Every nation does. I've been over to Israel into the Palestinian territories, and they love Americans. The gov't they take issue with, but as far as the people go we are well liked, respected (and our money they REALLY love)... :D
Exactly, thats why I was able to go into the refugee camps, clubs/bars populated by Palenstinians. A lot were curious to see a "real" American not a politician. Most wanted to know how they could get to America but this was the mid 80's. I'm sure Americans can't safely go where I went back in the day.

Radar Chief
06-05-2009, 06:56 AM
He ain’t down with the struggle.

:shrug:

KC Dan
06-05-2009, 09:13 AM
I'm sure Americans can't safely go where I went back in the day.I bet they can. I have had three people over there since February and they tell me that they have been everywhere except Lebannon. The Palestinian areas, Egypt, Jordan, the rest of Israel. Though they did say that they were told to be very careful...

patteeu
06-05-2009, 09:26 AM
Well I guess you can take comfort in what the Hezbollah think.

If the point of the speech was to generate moment in the effort to reconcile some of our differences with the muslim world and embrace some of our common ground, don't you think that what Hezbollah thinks is at least as significant as what Direckshun, BigRedChief and Obama Girl think?

Donger
06-05-2009, 09:30 AM
I wouldn't expect them to embrace him, do they ever embrace an American President? I guess I am puzzled this is a surprise. I have a strong suspicion that had they come out with praise the thread title would have read "Obama praised by terrorists!"

Hamas seems to be embracing him, yes.

patteeu
06-05-2009, 09:40 AM
He's right though. The only way you can see it though is if you take off your partisan glasses, and look at America and the message that Obama is delivering in the best light possible: America as the beacon of hope.

This speech was intended to be a blow at the foundation of the radical groups, not an appeal for the radical groups to see it our way. It's intended to soften the younger minds away from radicalizm.

Will it work? Who knows. But official statements from Hezbollah are hardly the indicator of whether or not the approach will be successful.

He specifically called for action from Hamas in his speech:

To play a role in fulfilling Palestinian aspirations, and to unify the Palestinian people, Hamas must put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, and recognize Israel's right to exist.

I guess we can pretend that what groups like Hamas and Hezbollah think of his speech doesn't matter though. And what Israel and the Arab dictators think of it is irrelevant too.

HC_Chief
06-05-2009, 10:14 AM
"The Islamic world does not need moral or political sermons. It needs a fundamental change in American policy," said Lebanese MP Hassan Fadlallah.

Read: "America needs to end all support for Israel and allow us to wipe it off the map."

Taco John
06-05-2009, 10:22 AM
Twist it how you want it. It doesn't matter to me. At the end of the day, the verbal reactions of any extremist group is meaningless.

patteeu
06-05-2009, 11:01 AM
Twist it how you want it. It doesn't matter to me. At the end of the day, the verbal reactions of any extremist group is meaningless.

Compared to the reaction of the Obamedia? I don't think so.

Taco John
06-05-2009, 11:08 AM
Compared to the reaction of the Obamedia? I don't think so.

I'm sure I don't know what you mean by that. I don't watch any television news, and haven't followed any stories written about this. I did listen to the entire speech directly though.

For my part, I wasn't comparing the reaction of Hamas to the reaction of the media. I'm not sure what the point of that excersize would be.

Donger
06-05-2009, 11:19 AM
Compared to the reaction of the Obamedia? I don't think so.

Obamedia? Come on, it's not like they bow to him or anything:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YLYtHHxTTmc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YLYtHHxTTmc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

***SPRAYER
06-05-2009, 12:01 PM
If the point of the speech was to generate moment in the effort to reconcile some of our differences with the muslim world and embrace some of our common ground, don't you think that what Hezbollah thinks is at least as significant as what Direckshun, BigRedChief and Obama Girl think?

This is what I'm trying to find out; when we say "the muslim world" this is in opposition to what...?

The Christian World?

Taco John
06-05-2009, 12:13 PM
An awkward nod of courtesy to the president while shaking his hand is now called bowing?

Donger
06-05-2009, 12:21 PM
An awkward nod of courtesy to the president while shaking his hand is now called bowing?

Now?

Taco John
06-05-2009, 12:25 PM
You're right Donger. That was certainly the most scandalous nod of a head while shaking a hand that I've ever seen. He practically was kissing his ring.

Amnorix
06-05-2009, 12:28 PM
A lawmaker belonging to the Hezbollah militant organization on Thursday dismissed a speech given by United States President Barack Obama earlier in Cairo as being like a "sermon," without signaling real change.

"The Islamic world does not need moral or political sermons. It needs a fundamental change in American policy," said Lebanese MP Hassan Fadlallah.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1090405.html

Seems that they were perhaps not so smitten as the media.

Did you think he was speaking to the radical fundamentalists?

When a Republican gives a speech, is he speaking to the most die hard liberal nut jobs?

Donger
06-05-2009, 12:31 PM
You're right Donger. That was certainly the most scandalous nod of a head while shaking a hand that I've ever seen. He practically was kissing his ring.

No, it's just a bow.

BigChiefFan
06-05-2009, 12:41 PM
In other words, the rightwing nutjobs didn't get their way, so they'll now have their shit fit of epic purportions based on nothing and site TERRORISTS as those that back their argument. Nothing like siding with the enemy just to make a point. Egg meet dishonest Chief face.

BigChiefFan
06-05-2009, 12:41 PM
No, it's just a bow.
Bullshit. It's a NOD.

Donger
06-05-2009, 12:44 PM
Bullshit. It's a NOD.

No, it's a bow.

BigChiefFan
06-05-2009, 12:46 PM
No, it's a bow.Sure thing. A bow means bending of the back(at the very least), but any fabrication you can use to make yourself feel better, by all means, lie, when you can't dispute the truth.

Calcountry
06-05-2009, 12:49 PM
Bullshit. It's a NOD.As big as many of you think Obama's cock is it was down right falatio.

BigChiefFan
06-05-2009, 12:55 PM
As big as many of you think Obama's cock is it was down right falatio.
OR actually, some of us like intellectual HONESTY and see through all the bullshit and could care less about being partisan.

Donger
06-05-2009, 12:55 PM
Sure thing. A bow means bending of the back(at the very least), but any fabrication you can use to make yourself feel better, by all means, lie, when you can't dispute the truth.

It doesn't, actually. I suggest you (and TJ) take a peek at the dictionary.

BigChiefFan
06-05-2009, 12:58 PM
It doesn't, actually. I suggest you (and TJ) take a peek at the dictionary.
Then I'm sure Bush and every other American with respect for their fellow man BOWS all the time. A nodding of the head isn't not a bow, regardless of what you believe. It's a gesture OF MUTUAL RESPECT. Bowing implies a SERVING of another. Somehow, I sincerely doubt Brian Williams thinks of Obama as his maker, but nice try.


BTW, what do people look like when they take a bow? Not a thing like Brian Williams did in that video. Hmmmm.

Donger
06-05-2009, 01:02 PM
Then I'm sure Bush and every other American with respect for their fellow man BOWS all the time. A nodding of the head isn't not a bow, regardless of what you believe. It's a gesture OF MUTUAL RESPECT. Bowing implies a SERVING of another. Somehow, I sincerely doubt Brian Williams thinks of Obama as his maker, but nice try.


BTW, what do people look like when they take a bow? Not a thing like Brian Williams did in that video. Hmmmm.

Take it up with Merriam Webster, I suppose:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bow

patteeu
06-05-2009, 01:36 PM
I'm sure I don't know what you mean by that. I don't watch any television news, and haven't followed any stories written about this. I did listen to the entire speech directly though.

For my part, I wasn't comparing the reaction of Hamas to the reaction of the media. I'm not sure what the point of that excersize would be.

I presume that the reason the media was brought up is because that is the filter through which much of our news about the reaction to Obama's speech comes. Maybe you haven't watched any television news, but millions of Americans have.

Statements from groups like Hezzbollah give us a different, filtered view of that reaction. The biases behind this view are likely to be more aligned with the perspective of muslims in the middle east than those of the Obama-adoring, American media, IMO.

patteeu
06-05-2009, 01:38 PM
This is what I'm trying to find out; when we say "the muslim world" this is in opposition to what...?

The Christian World?

The infidel world, of course.

Calcountry
06-05-2009, 01:43 PM
OR actually, some of us like intellectual HONESTY and see through all the bullshit and could care less about being partisan.OR, you wish it was you there.

***SPRAYER
06-05-2009, 01:44 PM
The infidel world, of course.

LMAO

Taco John
06-05-2009, 02:43 PM
Well, for my part, I can see why Republicans would be scared of the media right now. Obama pushed all in for 2012 with this speech. I haven't heard much Pulitzer Peace Prize talk yet, but I know that it's coming - and further, I'll go ahead and call it, the guy is going to pocket that coin. Good luck trying to run Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin against a Pulitzer Peace Prize winning president.

Donger
06-05-2009, 02:45 PM
Well, for my part, I can see why Republicans would be scared of the media right now. Obama pushed all in for 2012 with this speech. I haven't heard much Pulitzer Peace Prize talk yet, but I know that it's coming - and further, I'll go ahead and call it, the guy is going to pocket that coin. Good luck trying to run Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin against a Pulitzer Peace Prize winning president.

The Pulitzer Peace Prize?

patteeu
06-05-2009, 02:47 PM
Well, for my part, I can see why Republicans would be scared of the media right now. Obama pushed all in for 2012 with this speech. I haven't heard much Pulitzer Peace Prize talk yet, but I know that it's coming - and further, I'll go ahead and call it, the guy is going to pocket that coin. Good luck trying to run Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin against a Pulitzer Peace Prize winning president.

What's a Pulitzer Peace Prize? :p

Taco John
06-05-2009, 02:59 PM
Doh!

I have officially checked my brain out for the weekend!

Taco John
06-05-2009, 03:00 PM
Isn't the Pulitzer the one that they give away at the Kentucky Derby?

orange
06-05-2009, 04:00 PM
What's a Pulitzer Peace Prize? :p

Well, with the Obamedia bowing to him, it's only a matter of time. Taco John is just ahead of the curve

patteeu
06-05-2009, 04:29 PM
Doh!

I have officially checked my brain out for the weekend!

That's OK. I bet you're right about the (Nobel) Peace Prize. All it will take is some paper agreement that can be hyped way beyond it's likely long range consequences and he'll be a shoe-in.

patteeu
06-05-2009, 04:30 PM
Well, with the Obamedia bowing to him, it's only a matter of time. Taco John is just ahead of the curve

LOL, good point.

orange
06-06-2009, 02:19 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/diJpx90p2UE&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/diJpx90p2UE&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

alanm
06-06-2009, 05:47 PM
Sure thing. A bow means bending of the back(at the very least), but any fabrication you can use to make yourself feel better, by all means, lie, when you can't dispute the truth.Like when he bowed to the Saudi King? ;)

BigChiefFan
06-06-2009, 06:35 PM
[QUOTE=alanm;5821783]Like when he bowed to the Saudi King? ;)[/QUOTE

I wish you all would make up your minds.;)

First he's a traitor for bowing, now he gets bowed to and he's still unworthy of Republicans, in other words, the Repubs have nothing.

patteeu
06-06-2009, 07:03 PM
I wish you all would make up your minds.;)

First he's a traitor for bowing, now he gets bowed to and he's still unworthy of Republicans, in other words, the Repubs have nothing.

:spock: It's not Obama that's being ridiculed by showing a member of the mainstream media bowing to him, it's the journalist.