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Chiefshrink
06-06-2009, 01:44 PM
Acton Commentary
bringing moral reflection to bear upon current events
April 29, 2009
A Racist Recession?
by Anthony B. Bradley Ph.D.

Looking at the latest unemployment numbers, conspiracy theorists might postulate that our current economic crisis has a racial dimension, tilting against blacks and especially black males. The latest seasonally adjusted U.S Bureau of Labor Statistics unemployment numbers reveal that blacks have an unemployment rate of 13.3 percent compared to 7.9 percent for whites. For black men over nineteen years of age, the data are even worse: 15.4 percent compared to 8 percent for white males. These gaps represent a terrible cost in lost potential, and require action on multiple fronts. Critical to progress on this problem are a reform of welfare policies in tandem with a renewal of an ethic of educational achievement.

High black unemployment has more to do with lags in educational attainment and skill acquisition than with racism. In tight economic seasons, employers are less able to absorb the cost of less productive labor as demand for products and services decreases. Low-skilled laborers are often among the first to be laid off and have a more difficult time finding new employment opportunities. Having few skills disproportionately affects African-American males in an American economy characterized by increasing specialization and widespread illegal immigration.

To make matters worse, black males are approaching a high school drop out rate of 50 percent. Not having basic education and a needed skill in an economy in the midst of a major correction increases the chance of unemployment. Currently, those with no high school diplomas are experiencing a 12.6 percent unemployment rate. Those with a high school diplomas or college degrees see rates at 8.3 percent and 4.1 percent, respectively.

Such figures have human faces. The experience of twenty-one year-old Jimmie Jackson is a good example of the struggles many black men without employable skills currently confront. Even with a high school diploma, Jackson hasn’t worked in three years and has no real job experience other than as a teenager in retail and fast-food industries. To make matters worse, Jackson lives in Michigan, which suffers from the highest seasonally adjusted unemployment rate in America at 12.6 percent.

Jackson says that the most difficult part about his failed three-year job search is “not getting a call back.” He notes that, as a black man, he is at an additional disadvantage because of stigmas and stereotypes. “Black men have a bad rep,” Jackson says about living in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Yet Jackson says he regrets playing into the stereotypes himself, conceding that he’s not surprised that employers shy away from a candidate who is “all tatted up.” “If I was white,” he says, “I’d be afraid to hire some black dude with tattoos all over his body too.” An additional frustration for Jackson is that he seeks to change his appearance and presentation but does not have the money to do so. “You can’t just go buy a suit if you don’t have any money.”

The bleak stories behind these unemployment numbers remind us of the hard consequences of remaining in low-skill sectors for too long, the importance of graduating from high school, and the importance of continuing education afterward. One’s chances of contributing to the common good are enhanced by pursuing such education. Encouraging success in this area depends in large measure on cultivating a virtuous culture of self-betterment, an aim frustrated by government welfare.

Sadly, because of America’s exploding government program menu, the virtue of “getting an education” has all but been eliminated in low-income black neighborhoods. Before President Lyndon Johnson’s war on poverty programs, African American parents, grandparents, pastors, teachers, and coaches emphasized to their charges—regardless of their social class—the importance of “getting an education.” Learning and training have always been stressed in black communities as a prerequisite for living better than the previous generation.

Before government promised to meet one’s every need, and because of previous experiences with the oppressive potential of government, black children regularly heard from our elders that the key to living beyond subsistence was acquiring as much education as we possibly could. A good education creates opportunities and options. It is no accident that the civil-rights movement was inaugurated with Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas, the unanimous decision ruling that segregation in public schools was unconstitutional.

For young men like Jackson, currently living on “public assistance,” the incentives for self-improvement continue to be sabotaged by the promises of government programs. Jackson says that many of his friends have simply resigned themselves to nihilism: a steady life of drug use, run-ins with the police, and living on a government check. This incentive system undermines the culture of achievement that blacks successfully built in times past. Why work hard in school or work if government’s going to take care of you anyway?

Moving forward, low-income black communities need to be liberated from the prisons of government programs, recover a sense of personal dignity, and recapture the educational mores that have served as catalyst for fulfilling and productive lives.

Reaper16
06-06-2009, 03:31 PM
Well, its a step-up from WorldNetDaily anyway.

KCChiefsMan
06-06-2009, 03:33 PM
yup, its the whites fault that they drop out of highschool at 50%, geez I wouldn't have thought it was that high. God.

HonestChieffan
06-06-2009, 03:50 PM
amazing

HonestChieffan
06-06-2009, 03:50 PM
Its Bushs fault too

Deberg_1990
06-06-2009, 04:10 PM
Decent read.

It amazes me that the African American community continues to support the libs so much. As this story points out, the Government social programs have failed their community for decades. They keep getting lied to over and over yet still think the Government is the solution to all their woes.....

2bikemike
06-06-2009, 04:23 PM
Decent read.

It amazes me that the African American community continues to support the libs so much. As this story points out, the Government social programs have failed their community for decades. They keep getting lied to over and over yet still think the Government is the solution to all their woes.....

I agree, Those social programs enable people to continue to under achieve.

I have a brother in the same situation. Except he can't or hasn't got govt help. Me and my other brother and sister supported him for years. All we did was enable him to flounder. We cut him off 2 years ago. We told him to get a job anywhere even at minimum wage and we would help him again. I haven't really heard from him since. I don't know how he survives.

Wilson
06-06-2009, 04:27 PM
I wonder if this "racist recession" has anything do with 12 million illegal immigrants flooding the border and spreading out across the US like lice competing for every blue collar job that exists. Willing to work for below the federal minimum wage because they feel they are both above the law and below the law.

Blame your Government for not enforcing the laws their fore fathers put in place to protect you of just that before blaming "whitey" because there's many "whitey" hurting just as bad as anyone else.

But poke away at your "whitey" straw man if it makes you feel better.

HonestChieffan
06-06-2009, 04:35 PM
A lot of those you call Illegals are legal and they work for the wages paid within the law. The "illegals" are an easy target to explain black unemployment. The truth lies somewhere between motivation and a work ethic, not on the border under this cloak of consern for immigration issues.

If you need to blame someone blame people who choose to sit home and do nothing. Lazy is not color or language bound either. Lazy cuts across all.

banyon
06-06-2009, 04:47 PM
A lot of those you call Illegals are legal and they work for the wages paid within the law. The "illegals" are an easy target to explain black unemployment. The truth lies somewhere between motivation and a work ethic, not on the border under this cloak of consern for immigration issues.

If you need to blame someone blame people who choose to sit home and do nothing. Lazy is not color or language bound either. Lazy cuts across all.

There you go. Blacks are lazy and shiftless. Very nice. :huh:

Hydrae
06-06-2009, 04:47 PM
Isn't this disparity in unemployment numbers basically normal? Or has the gap widened in the last few months?


Oh, and....link?

HonestChieffan
06-06-2009, 04:52 PM
There you go. Blacks are lazy and shiftless. Very nice. :huh:

Lazy whites are as well . I guess you didn't get that point before you shot your mouth off and said something i did not say.

banyon
06-06-2009, 05:00 PM
Lazy whites are as well . I guess you didn't get that point before you shot your mouth off and said something i did not say.

The "illegals" are an easy target to explain black unemployment. The truth lies somewhere between motivation and a work ethic.

It's pretty clear here you were attempting to "explain the black unemployment" because you thought Wilson's illegal immigrant explanation probably let them off the hook too easy or something.

No one was talking about white unemployment in this thread. You shot off your mouth and exposed youself, start backtracking.

Otter
06-06-2009, 05:03 PM
A lot of those you call Illegals are legal and they work for the wages paid within the law. The "illegals" are an easy target to explain black unemployment. The truth lies somewhere between motivation and a work ethic, not on the border under this cloak of consern for immigration issues.

If you need to blame someone blame people who choose to sit home and do nothing. Lazy is not color or language bound either. Lazy cuts across all.

Couldn't agree with you more on the lazy part.

Illegals are just that - illegal. They thumb their nose at our countries immigration laws then blame the immigration laws of being "broken".

I work with a man who was living in Afghanistan when the Russians were fighting there back in the 80's. He left a village that the Taliban were about to invade and trekked 30 miles over rugged land to a US Embassy. Filled out paper work, waited in line for his turn and now lives a happy life in the US...legally.

He followed the rules and deserves his citizenship and I'll gladly shake his hand and welcome him into my home.

There's plenty of routes to coming into the US as both a citizen and a guest worker. You just have to take the time to fill out paper work like all of us do for a loan, a passport or anything else.

If I'm out of work, hungry and need to feed my kids how about I feel the local grocery stores pay for product laws are broken? What about the food in your fridge? Is that fair game as well?

Where does this enforce the laws when its convenient end?

Illegal immigrants are a HUGE problem. There are laws in place and it's not OK to pick and choose which ones you feel are OK to obey.

SNR
06-06-2009, 05:05 PM
A lot of those you call Illegals are legal and they work for the wages paid within the law. The "illegals" are an easy target to explain black unemployment. The truth lies somewhere between motivation and a work ethic, not on the border under this cloak of consern for immigration issues.

If you need to blame someone blame people who choose to sit home and do nothing. Lazy is not color or language bound either. Lazy cuts across all.Cool. Got any suggestions for the guy in the story in the OP? Work harder, right?

Otter
06-06-2009, 05:08 PM
hehe, prolly Bob Dole or DaFace...sorry and thanks

HonestChieffan
06-06-2009, 05:09 PM
Poor Banyon. Somedays his mouth/fingers go so fast his little mind cannot keep up.

Banyon , read the last sentence....ponder the points made and try your best to understand before you go off on another idiot bunny trail as you are so prone to do.

banyon
06-06-2009, 05:16 PM
Poor Banyon. Somedays his mouth/fingers go so fast his little mind cannot keep up.

Banyon , read the last sentence....ponder the points made and try your best to understand before you go off on another idiot bunny trail as you are so prone to do.

You can't explain it; that's not really surprising that you don't understand what you typed.

HonestChieffan
06-06-2009, 05:20 PM
Spin Banyon spin, lets get some music for you to dance to.

You should not drink and type.

banyon
06-06-2009, 05:24 PM
Spin Banyon spin, lets get some music for you to dance to.

You should not drink and type.

So... What was your explanation for black unemployment then, since it wasn't what you typed?

HonestChieffan
06-06-2009, 05:56 PM
Moron, its the same for white unemployment...


You as usual want to find a root cause somewhere in society for whatever. Its not some Mexicans fault that some black guy has no job. Its not some mexicans fault some white guy has no job. Everything in liberal land has to have a neat tidy blame game built to justify some fix that wont work, never has worked, and never wiill work.

What about turning the tables....How do you explain Black employment/White employment/mexican employment/oriental employment?

Maybe its cause people get off their ass regardless of creed, color, or any other fun little liberal cross section analysis...and go to work...every day...and they do their job....Its not color, its freaking motivation.

The converse may also apply. If you sit on your ass at home waiting for the eagle to shit a job on your back porch, things may just not work out. So don't make it race...make it a function of effort, desire, motivation...that explains unemployment as much as it explains employment.

banyon
06-06-2009, 06:04 PM
Moron, its the same for white unemployment...


You as usual want to find a root cause somewhere in society for whatever. Its not some Mexicans fault that some black guy has no job. Its not some mexicans fault some white guy has no job. Everything in liberal land has to have a neat tidy blame game built to justify some fix that wont work, never has worked, and never wiill work.

What about turning the tables....How do you explain Black employment/White employment/mexican employment/oriental employment?

Maybe its cause people get off their ass regardless of creed, color, or any other fun little liberal cross section analysis...and go to work...every day...and they do their job....Its not color, its freaking motivation.

The converse may also apply. If you sit on your ass at home waiting for the eagle to shit a job on your back porch, things may just not work out. So don't make it race...make it a function of effort, desire, motivation...that explains unemployment as much as it explains employment.

The point of the article, had you read it, was that black unemployment rates are much worse than rates for whites. The article attempted to explain why the disparity existed. Saying "it's the same" doesn't explain the disparity at all.

I guess if you really understood the article that poorly, then it's possible you didn't intend your racial explanation, but I doubt it.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-06-2009, 06:08 PM
It's pretty clear here you were attempting to "explain the black unemployment" because you thought Wilson's illegal immigrant explanation probably let them off the hook too easy or something.

No one was talking about white unemployment in this thread. You shot off your mouth and exposed youself, start backtracking.

This isn't the first time he's done this.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-06-2009, 06:10 PM
HCF, you've just read an article that states black male unemployment is twice the rate of white male unemployment. You then talk about laziness, and motivation being the major factors in unemployment. You've essentially said you think blacks are twice as lazy and unmotivated as whites. Period.

Psyko Tek
06-06-2009, 06:53 PM
this is gonna sound wrong but
the suit comment

you can get a decent suit for $300 bucks at a store

cheaper at goodwill or what ever

but tats ain't cheap

if the guy can afford to get "all tatted up"

and the way people bag on "intellectuals" smart is bad

that's why kids don't get educated

and it's hard to break I have tried to stress education to the kids
but I have an associates degree in electronics
and that's about worthless when all my jobs went overseas

ocassionally I make very good money right now I am trying to get by on $16/hr
it's hard to tell a kid who is making $10 at her job education is worth it

banyon
06-06-2009, 07:00 PM
this is gonna sound wrong but
the suit comment

you can get a decent suit for $300 bucks at a store

cheaper at goodwill or what ever

but tats ain't cheap

if the guy can afford to get "all tatted up"

and the way people bag on "intellectuals" smart is bad

that's why kids don't get educated

and it's hard to break I have tried to stress education to the kids
but I have an associates degree in electronics
and that's about worthless when all my jobs went overseas

ocassionally I make very good money right now I am trying to get by on $16/hr
it's hard to tell a kid who is making $10 at her job education is worth it

That's a pretty good point too. How are we going to educate people to compete with people who are willing to work for pennies a day?

Sully
06-06-2009, 07:14 PM
The tatoo thing does raise my eyebrows, often.
They aren't inexpensive, at all. I'd love to get my chest, shoulder and shoulderblade done, but that's a ton of cash.
And when I see morons with neck tats, I want to stab them in the face.

Chiefshrink
06-07-2009, 12:28 AM
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.

Thomas Jefferson

Chiefshrink
06-07-2009, 12:37 AM
I think it was Benjamin Franklin or Jefferson who said something along the lines of "a society or government should always make poverty uncomfortable for those who refuse to work in order to maintain a 'civil and productive society' ".

This is where we have gone "severely wrong" in our country. We have made the 'deadbeats' very comfortable in the names of "War on Poverty and Political Correctness".

KC native
06-07-2009, 02:29 AM
this is gonna sound wrong but
the suit comment

you can get a decent suit for $300 bucks at a store

cheaper at goodwill or what ever

but tats ain't cheap

if the guy can afford to get "all tatted up"

and the way people bag on "intellectuals" smart is bad

that's why kids don't get educated

and it's hard to break I have tried to stress education to the kids
but I have an associates degree in electronics
and that's about worthless when all my jobs went overseas

ocassionally I make very good money right now I am trying to get by on $16/hr
it's hard to tell a kid who is making $10 at her job education is worth it

Depends on the relationship with the tatt artist. I have 3 or 4 "tattoo artists" (in quotes because they've only done a few) that will do work on me for the cost of supplies and smoking them out. I won't let them touch my skin because only one of them has any talent (and even then he's not up to what I want). I also know a few artists that will do work for cheap provided that work is at my house and not at the studio (where they give up half the price to the shop). So, getting tatted up doesn't mean that it cost a lot of money.

Second, as far as the OP, I can sympathasize with many of the points put forth. I'm not totally agreeing with him but from my experience in growing up in a majority black neighborhood, education is not highly valued in many families in those communities. this isn't limited to blacks. This is a problem in Hispanic communities as well and Hispanics have the highest drop out rate (last time I checked) of all minorities. In all of the volunteer work I've done and all the informal and formal mentoring roles I've had, I've stressed the importance of education. I try to show (not always effectively) them that they limit themselves by not having an education. My argument is bolstered by my family experiences (where I have drop out relatives and college graduate relatives).

I'm kind of wine drunk right now so the whole point of that little aside is that education isn't valued by a good part of our society and that's something that everyone should work towards reversing.

wild1
06-07-2009, 02:40 AM
some people have advantages that others don't. but at the end of the day we're all still responsible for our own situation.

StcChief
06-07-2009, 06:33 AM
some people have advantages that others don't. but at the end of the day we're all still responsible for our own situation.
and when Bill Cosby told his "brothers" that...it didn't fly so well..

they don't want to own up, work their way up. Whitey screwed me has worked for along time. :deevee:

HonestChieffan
06-07-2009, 06:38 AM
Come to think of it, it will be a racist recovery when the recovery happens.

patteeu
06-07-2009, 10:46 AM
It's pretty clear here you were attempting to "explain the black unemployment" because you thought Wilson's illegal immigrant explanation probably let them off the hook too easy or something.

No one was talking about white unemployment in this thread. You shot off your mouth and exposed youself, start backtracking.

He said in the very same post that laziness "is not color or language bound either. Lazy cuts across all." How can you find racism in that?

patteeu
06-07-2009, 10:49 AM
So... What was your explanation for black unemployment then, since it wasn't what you typed?

Lack of motivation/laziness can still be an explanation for black unemployment even if it's not an attribute only related to black people.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-07-2009, 10:51 AM
I think it was Benjamin Franklin or Jefferson who said something along the lines of "a society or government should always make poverty uncomfortable for those who refuse to work in order to maintain a 'civil and productive society' ".

This is where we have gone "severely wrong" in our country. We have made the 'deadbeats' very comfortable in the names of "War on Poverty and Political Correctness".

:spock: Have you ever known anyone on welfare? They have nothing. They survive, but in no way do they live.

patteeu
06-07-2009, 10:52 AM
Moron, its the same for white unemployment...


You as usual want to find a root cause somewhere in society for whatever. Its not some Mexicans fault that some black guy has no job. Its not some mexicans fault some white guy has no job. Everything in liberal land has to have a neat tidy blame game built to justify some fix that wont work, never has worked, and never wiill work.

What about turning the tables....How do you explain Black employment/White employment/mexican employment/oriental employment?

Maybe its cause people get off their ass regardless of creed, color, or any other fun little liberal cross section analysis...and go to work...every day...and they do their job....Its not color, its freaking motivation.

The converse may also apply. If you sit on your ass at home waiting for the eagle to shit a job on your back porch, things may just not work out. So don't make it race...make it a function of effort, desire, motivation...that explains unemployment as much as it explains employment.

Although, it's always tempting to suspect that a working black man only has his job because of the perversion of affirmative action. I've heard more than one liberal advance the theory that Clarence Thomas only got his current job because someone thought the court needed a little color.

banyon
06-07-2009, 10:54 AM
Lack of motivation/laziness can still be an explanation for black unemployment even if it's not an attribute only related to black people.

Not an explanation of the disparity, as has already been stated.

patteeu
06-07-2009, 11:00 AM
The point of the article, had you read it, was that black unemployment rates are much worse than rates for whites. The article attempted to explain why the disparity existed. Saying "it's the same" doesn't explain the disparity at all.

I guess if you really understood the article that poorly, then it's possible you didn't intend your racial explanation, but I doubt it.

If you insist upon looking at the problem through a racial lens, as this article does, then the theories about the cause are invariably going to end up being one of two types of factors. (1) racism or stereotyping on the part of employers or (2) an individual characteristic that makes a person less employable that happens to be more prevalent in the black community than in the broader population. I submit that the problem isn't all racism on the part of employers, but I refuse to be called a racist for placing a portion of the blame on the individuals (and their local mentors) who fail to graduate from high school, who fail to conform to acceptable standards for employment (e.g. tattoos, manner of dress, grooming, language, drugs etc.) and who fail to work hard at both their jobs and at making themselves more marketable.

patteeu
06-07-2009, 11:00 AM
HCF, you've just read an article that states black male unemployment is twice the rate of white male unemployment. You then talk about laziness, and motivation being the major factors in unemployment. You've essentially said you think blacks are twice as lazy and unmotivated as whites. Period.

See my last post. Period.

banyon
06-07-2009, 11:02 AM
If you insist upon looking at the problem through a racial lens, as this article does, then the theories about the cause are invariably going to end up being one of two types of factors. (1) racism or stereotyping on the part of employers or (2) an individual characteristic that makes a person less employable that happens to be more prevalent in the black community than in the broader population. I submit that the problem isn't all racism on the part of employers, but I refuse to be called a racist for placing a portion of the blame on the individuals (and their local mentors) who fail to graduate from high school, who fail to conform to acceptable standards for employment (e.g. tattoos, manner of dress, grooming, language, drugs etc.) and who fail to work hard at both their jobs and at making themselves more marketable.

I'm sorry, so your explanation for the higher black unemployment is...?

StcChief
06-07-2009, 11:03 AM
Come to think of it, it will be a racist recovery when the recovery happens.BHO will ensure it isn't, at our TAX expense. the dawn of a new AA back by democratic popular demand.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-07-2009, 11:04 AM
See my last post. Period.

Pat I've never seen you refer to someone as a wetback. I have seen HCF do it, which "colors" my interpretation of his posts.

patteeu
06-07-2009, 11:07 AM
Second, as far as the OP, I can sympathasize with many of the points put forth. I'm not totally agreeing with him but from my experience in growing up in a majority black neighborhood, education is not highly valued in many families in those communities. this isn't limited to blacks. This is a problem in Hispanic communities as well and Hispanics have the highest drop out rate (last time I checked) of all minorities. In all of the volunteer work I've done and all the informal and formal mentoring roles I've had, I've stressed the importance of education. I try to show (not always effectively) them that they limit themselves by not having an education. My argument is bolstered by my family experiences (where I have drop out relatives and college graduate relatives).

I'm kind of wine drunk right now so the whole point of that little aside is that education isn't valued by a good part of our society and that's something that everyone should work towards reversing.

This is a good point that is missed in the rush to brand people as racists. If we were to look at the unemployment numbers through a lens other than race we might find other groupings are more relevant to employment success than race. For example, maybe it's the neighborhoods kids come from that leads to disparate results in employment. Or the socioeconomic strata. Or maybe it has to do with whether they have a father in their lives. Or the type of job a kids' parents have. It isn't necessarily race, but race more or less tracks with many other factors that influence the way young people think and act that could lead them toward either lives of successful employment or desperate employment failure.

stevieray
06-07-2009, 11:07 AM
Before segregation what was the HS drop out rate for blacks? What was the unemployment rate? There has been a dramatic culture shift.

I've said it many times before, Dems have decimated the black family...and FMae and Fmac are just the latest installment.

patteeu
06-07-2009, 11:11 AM
I'm sorry, so your explanation for the higher black unemployment is...?

As I just said, I place "a portion of the blame on the individuals (and their local mentors) who fail to graduate from high school, who fail to conform to acceptable standards for employment (e.g. tattoos, manner of dress, grooming, language, drugs etc.) and who fail to work hard at both their jobs and at making themselves more marketable."

One thing I'll add is a failure to move to where the jobs are for some people who continue to live in jobless areas.

patteeu
06-07-2009, 11:12 AM
I'm sorry, so your explanation for the higher black unemployment is...?

As I just said, I place "a portion of the blame on the individuals (and their local mentors) who fail to graduate from high school, who fail to conform to acceptable standards for employment (e.g. tattoos, manner of dress, grooming, language, drugs etc.) and who fail to work hard at both their jobs and at making themselves more marketable."

One thing I'll add is a failure to move to where the jobs are for some people who continue to live in jobless areas.

What's your explanation? Is it completely due to factors beyond the individual's control or are you a racist too?

patteeu
06-07-2009, 11:15 AM
Before segregation what was the HS drop out rate for blacks? What was the unemployment rate? There has been a dramatic culture shift.

I've said it many times before, Dems have decimated the black family...and FMae and Fmac are just the latest installment.

Thanks for reminding me. I don't disagree with the OP article that implies that liberals and their failed anti-poverty and racial-equality-of-outcome agendas share in the responsibility for black unemployment.

Chiefshrink
06-07-2009, 11:16 AM
Before segregation what was the HS drop out rate for blacks? What was the unemployment rate? There has been a dramatic culture shift.

I've said it many times before, Dems have deciamted the black family...and FMae and Fmac are just the latest installment.

B-I-N-G-O !!!!!!! Amen to that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumb::thumb::thumb:

Jesse and Al have made a fortune trumping the race card(extorting the white corporate private sector on "quota") and beat their own race down at the same time and have no problem with it. :shake:

HonestChieffan
06-07-2009, 11:19 AM
He said in the very same post that laziness "is not color or language bound either. Lazy cuts across all." How can you find racism in that?

Banyon finds racism everywhere. Its like a hobby. If you can lay blame on society then individuals cannot be held accountable.

banyon
06-07-2009, 11:27 AM
As I just said, I place "a portion of the blame on the individuals (and their local mentors) who fail to graduate from high school, who fail to conform to acceptable standards for employment (e.g. tattoos, manner of dress, grooming, language, drugs etc.) and who fail to work hard at both their jobs and at making themselves more marketable."

One thing I'll add is a failure to move to where the jobs are for some people who continue to live in jobless areas.

So, those are racial characteristics then, or do you just refuse to address the underlying demographic trend?

banyon
06-07-2009, 11:28 AM
Banyon finds racism everywhere. Its like a hobby. If you can lay blame on society then individuals cannot be held accountable.

I'm more prone to comment on retardation. Consequently, your posts are probably going to be targeted more heavily than others.

HonestChieffan
06-07-2009, 11:33 AM
I would defer to your understanding of retardation.

banyon
06-07-2009, 11:37 AM
I would defer to your understanding of retardation.

Being retarded, you probably should.

patteeu
06-07-2009, 11:38 AM
So, those are racial characteristics then, or do you just refuse to address the underlying demographic trend?

I think that those characteristics are contributing to the higher than average unemployment figures among blacks. I don't think those characteristics are inherent to the black race at a genetic level or anything like that.

I suspect that there might be a small discrepancy in unemployment figures between whites and blacks who grew up in well-to-do suburbs, who performed well in school, and who graduated with marketable degrees. That discrepancy may reflect some racism on the employer side of the equation. But I'd be more inclined to blame most of the discrepancy in the more general employment picture on the prospective employees. And on second thought, I wouldn't be all that surprised to find that blacks who prepare themselves well for the work force have lower than average unemployment (among the well prepared group) because my experience has been that employers (and colleges) are very interested in hiring high achieving minorities.

Were you going to take a stab at explaining the higher than average unemployment among blacks?

HonestChieffan
06-07-2009, 12:11 PM
Being retarded, you probably should.

Do you find that to be funny? People with handicaps of any kind deserve a bit more respect than that.

banyon
06-07-2009, 12:47 PM
Do you find that to be funny? People with handicaps of any kind deserve a bit more respect than that.

Aren't you the guy that continually whines about "political correctness"?

HonestChieffan
06-07-2009, 01:13 PM
I dont whine.

And that said, do you enjoy calling people a retard understanding what that means and how small that makes you seem to others?

Stewie
06-07-2009, 01:35 PM
Inner city black culture puts no emphasis on education. In fact, if you're attempting to do well in school it's sort of a "you're sucking up to THE MAN" attitude. There have been a couple of documentaries that have asked the same questions brought up in this thread. The best one I can remember was Hoop Dreams. The attitude in the neighborhood where that movie was shot was appalling. If you didn't have a chance of making it in basketball you were force-fed "education is bad" and "drugs are the easy way... here try some."

banyon
06-07-2009, 01:41 PM
I dont whine.

And that said, do you enjoy calling people a retard understanding what that means and how small that makes you seem to others?

Aren't you the guy who called Hispanic a bunch of "w-backs" just a few weeks back, and then tried to act like it was no big deal? Are you really going to try to lecture anyone on this topic?

HonestChieffan
06-07-2009, 01:42 PM
Yes. Are you saying that calling someone a retard is less offensive?

banyon
06-07-2009, 01:43 PM
Yes. Are you saying that calling someone a retard is less offensive?

Yes, it is.

HonestChieffan
06-07-2009, 01:51 PM
You clearly do not know people with handicaps. Or you are really that insensitive and sad. I hope that you never have to face such an issue in your life. I mean that. Like Reaper saying he wished another poster contracts cancer, I hope no one ever has to deal with that either. Your comment is more sad than offensive.

banyon
06-07-2009, 02:11 PM
You clearly do not know people with handicaps. Or you are really that insensitive and sad. I hope that you never have to face such an issue in your life. I mean that. Like Reaper saying he wished another poster contracts cancer, I hope no one ever has to deal with that either. Your comment is more sad than offensive.

Forgive me if I don't shed a tear while you run back sniveling to your Klan rally.

|Zach|
06-07-2009, 02:13 PM
You clearly do not know people with handicaps. Or you are really that insensitive and sad. I hope that you never have to face such an issue in your life. I mean that. Like Reaper saying he wished another poster contracts cancer, I hope no one ever has to deal with that either. Your comment is more sad than offensive.

Nice pedestal, where did you even get it?

googlegoogle
06-07-2009, 03:14 PM
Economics is a very complicated ecosystem.

The other side of the coin is if you don't allow anyone in then the size of the market is reduced- Less consumers.

The days of preserving a job just for a longstanding citizen is over.

googlegoogle
06-07-2009, 03:16 PM
So, those are racial characteristics then, or do you just refuse to address the underlying demographic trend?

Why don't you and your friends who hate the USA leave to some other country like Mexico that wants government to run everything.

googlegoogle
06-07-2009, 03:20 PM
Forgive me if I don't shed a tear while you run back sniveling to your Klan rally.

:LOL:

Textbook Klan rally comeback , heh?

And what can we say about you that would be just as offensive that wouldn't make you want to call 'hatecrimes' bureau ?

Ever thought about leaving the USA and going back to your motherland where everything is run by your people?

Oh, that's racist?

People that can't adapt to the USA or like the USA can leave.

Reaper16
06-07-2009, 03:36 PM
:LOL:

Textbook Klan rally comeback , heh?

And what can we say about you that would be just as offensive that wouldn't make you want to call 'hatecrimes' bureau ?

Ever thought about leaving the USA and going back to your motherland where everything is run by your people?

Oh, that's racist?

People that can't adapt to the USA or like the USA can leave.
:spock:

patteeu
06-07-2009, 04:26 PM
:spock:

Are you having trouble finding it?

Reaper16
06-07-2009, 05:10 PM
Are you having trouble finding it?
Actually, I have no clue why your post was quoted in mine. That was accidental.

patteeu
06-07-2009, 05:17 PM
Actually, I have no clue why your post was quoted in mine. That was accidental.

OK. I was confused by it. :)

***SPRAYER
06-07-2009, 05:35 PM
Forgive me if I don't shed a tear while you run back sniveling to your Klan rally.

:deevee:

Adept Havelock
06-07-2009, 06:43 PM
Before segregation what was the HS drop out rate for blacks? What was the unemployment rate? There has been a dramatic culture shift.

I've said it many times before, Dems have decimated the black family...and FMae and Fmac are just the latest installment.

Why don't you provide some numbers breaking down the drop out rates by race "Before segregation"?

I'm thinking that would likely have been sometime before the slave trade in America started.:shrug:

I dont whine.


True. You're far more likely to cut-and-paste someone else's whining.

At least they are good for a laugh, most of the time.

***SPRAYER
06-07-2009, 06:51 PM
Why don't you provide some numbers breaking down the drop out rates by race "Before segregation"?

I'm thinking that would likely have been sometime before the slave trade in America started.:shrug:



True. You're far more likely to cut-and-paste someone else's whining.

At least they are good for a laugh, most of the time.

Sen Pat Moynihan (RIP) wrote a book back in the 60's detailing the destruction of the American Black family due to government programs.

When he wrote the book, black illigitimacy was 23%.

Today it is over 75%.

Good intentions pave a road to hell.

Adept Havelock
06-07-2009, 06:53 PM
Sen Pat Moynihan (RIP) wrote a book back in the 60's detailing the destruction of the American Black family due to government programs.

When he wrote the book, black illigitimacy was 23%.

Today it is over 75%.


Moynihan's book has nothing to do with high school dropouts "Before segregation", which is what stevieray commented on.

Before segregation what was the HS drop out rate for blacks? What was the unemployment rate? There has been a dramatic culture shift.

I guess it's true. Neither you, sportshrink, nor HCF, bother to read what someone writes before responding.
LMAO


Good intentions pave a road to hell.

Nice to know New Jersey road maintenance is getting the help it needs. :thumb:

***SPRAYER
06-07-2009, 06:57 PM
Moynihan's book has nothing to do with high school dropouts "Before segregation", which is what stevieray commented on.


Right there is no corelation. Continue on your moonbat way.

:drool:

Adept Havelock
06-07-2009, 06:58 PM
Right there is no corelation. Continue on your moonbat way.

:drool:

ROFL

Yes, I'm quite certain there is no correlation between DM's book, and the high school drop-out rate "Before segregation".


I guess it's true. Neither you, sportshrink, nor HCF, bother to read what someone writes before responding.
LMAO

Continue on your hilariously entertaining clownish way. :thumb:

***SPRAYER
06-07-2009, 07:04 PM
ROFL

Yes, I'm quite certain there is no correlation between DM's book, and the high school drop-out rate "Before segregation".



Continue on your hilariously entertaining clownish way. :thumb:

No skin off my ass.

Adept Havelock
06-07-2009, 07:05 PM
No skin off my ass.
:deevee:

googlegoogle
06-07-2009, 07:07 PM
Is it racist to mention the truth that Blacks and Indians were recently 'tribal' unskilled people.

Adept Havelock
06-07-2009, 07:11 PM
Is it racist to mention the truth that Blacks and Indians were recently 'tribal' unskilled people.

Different skills ≠ unskilled.

How would you do surviving a midwest winter with only native tools?

I suspect you would be a corpsesicle in days. No great loss, AFAICS.

banyon
06-07-2009, 10:52 PM
Sen Pat Moynihan (RIP) wrote a book back in the 60's detailing the destruction of the American Black family due to government programs.

When he wrote the book, black illigitimacy was 23%.

Today it is over 75%.

Good intentions pave a road to hell.

Really? What's white illiteracy at?

Rain Man
06-07-2009, 11:49 PM
I think that those characteristics are contributing to the higher than average unemployment figures among blacks. I don't think those characteristics are inherent to the black race at a genetic level or anything like that.

I suspect that there might be a small discrepancy in unemployment figures between whites and blacks who grew up in well-to-do suburbs, who performed well in school, and who graduated with marketable degrees. That discrepancy may reflect some racism on the employer side of the equation. But I'd be more inclined to blame most of the discrepancy in the more general employment picture on the prospective employees. And on second thought, I wouldn't be all that surprised to find that blacks who prepare themselves well for the work force have lower than average unemployment (among the well prepared group) because my experience has been that employers (and colleges) are very interested in hiring high achieving minorities.

Were you going to take a stab at explaining the higher than average unemployment among blacks?


Yeah, I've got no stats to back this up, but I have the perception of a different scale of success in the minority community than in the white community.

I suspect that if you're a minority person with the skills and savvy to succeed, you're far more in demand because of diversity goals and all that stuff. But you would've succeeded anyway. And those in the minority community without the skills and savvy to succeed are less in demand because of things like 50 percent high school dropout rates. The same thing exists in the white community, of course, but I suspect it's a smoother curve between the two extremes.

That's the biggest issue I have with affirmative action programs. The people who take advantage of them are the ones who are already well-positioned for success via education and savvy parents. It's not the folks who are living in poverty.

***SPRAYER
06-08-2009, 04:48 AM
Really? What's white illiteracy at?

OH you got me. :drool:

I thought you had me on ignore? Lying dirtbag.

KcFanInGA
06-08-2009, 12:50 PM
In my house, the unemployment for white males is 100%

Chief Faithful
06-08-2009, 01:54 PM
I think that those characteristics are contributing to the higher than average unemployment figures among blacks. I don't think those characteristics are inherent to the black race at a genetic level or anything like that.



I like the direction you are headed with your reply. The word racism is so abused and over applied it has lost most of its meaning. Instead of meaning a belief of an inherent superiority at a genetic level it is used to attack for political concessions. The result is the problem is not correctly identified and wrong headed solutions get applied. Because of this the problem evolves over time into a whole new issue, people become frustrated, and trust is lost.

***SPRAYER
06-08-2009, 02:03 PM
Yeah, I've got no stats to back this up, but I have the perception of a different scale of success in the minority community than in the white community.

I suspect that if you're a minority person with the skills and savvy to succeed, you're far more in demand because of diversity goals and all that stuff. But you would've succeeded anyway. And those in the minority community without the skills and savvy to succeed are less in demand because of things like 50 percent high school dropout rates. The same thing exists in the white community, of course, but I suspect it's a smoother curve between the two extremes.

That's the biggest issue I have with affirmative action programs. The people who take advantage of them are the ones who are already well-positioned for success via education and savvy parents. It's not the folks who are living in poverty.

Great post.

:thumb:

El Jefe
06-08-2009, 03:08 PM
A lot of those you call Illegals are legal and they work for the wages paid within the law. The "illegals" are an easy target to explain black unemployment. The truth lies somewhere between motivation and a work ethic, not on the border under this cloak of consern for immigration issues.

If you need to blame someone blame people who choose to sit home and do nothing. Lazy is not color or language bound either. Lazy cuts across all.

Good stuff, I agree.