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Mr. Arrowhead
06-06-2009, 10:32 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1237713.html

JASON WHITLOCK COMMENTARY
Chiefs loading up on secrecy
More News



If secrecy and distance from the media are the keys to winning in the National Football League, our Kansas City Chiefs are Super Bowl contenders.

I went to my last Chiefs practice Saturday afternoon. And I suspect my stay in River Falls, Wis., during training camp will be very brief.

Iím going to cooperate with new general manager Scott Pioli. He believes you canít win football games with the media looking over the coachesí shoulders. Maybe heís right. Maybe football is the one professional sport in which the media can completely destroy a work environment during minicamps.

I want the Chiefs to win, so Iím going to do my part and get as far away from the practice field as possible. Even farther than I was Saturday morning during a minicamp practice. Yep, we were allowed to stand about 100 yards (an entire football field) away from where the Chiefs practiced.

It was a waste of time. The top row of Arrowhead Stadium is a far superior vantage point. At ground level, Iím not sure binoculars would help at the distance we were allowed to observe.

Youíre going to read this and think Iím whining. Iím not. Iíve never liked practice, as a player or journalist. I love the games. Practices are mundane and tedious. Theyíre for learning. Games are for evaluating.

Given all the cooperation Iím going to give Pioli during practices, Iím going to be very unforgiving in my evaluation of his work as GM. If things go poorly, Pioli wonít be able to say the media got in his way.

Weíre going to put his theory about secrecy vs. talent to the test.

Itís my contention that you win professional football, basketball, baseball and hockey games primarily by securing more talent than your competitors. Pioli contends you do it by keeping more secrets than your competitors.

Hmm. Did the Patriots win three Super Bowls because Tom Brady was the dominant quarterback of the last decade? Or did the Patriots win three Super Bowls because Bill Belichick secretly taped the defensive signals of the opposition?

My money is on Brady, Richard Seymour, Ty Law, Rodney Harrison, Mike Vrabel and Tedy Bruschi.

But weíll find out here in Kansas City.

Pioli is loading up on secrecy. Minicamp practices are now high-security events. The media have to be escorted onto the field and kept at a safe distance.

Yes, I realize we (the media) are hated. I realize youíre not sympathetic to this message. Many of you would like the Chiefs to win regardless of the methods. Making the media happy is not a priority for you.

What Iím arguing is that our new general manager is a little misguided.

He traded for a locker-room leader (Vrabel) who doesnít want to be here. Much of Vrabelís value is symbolic and intangible. The fact that Vrabel has skipped the voluntary offseason program significantly undermines his value.

Pioliís and Todd Haleyís war with Brian Waters is equally silly. Despite Watersí attendance at the three-day minicamp, there has been no thawing in that cold war. Waters potentially couldíve been recruited to play the role Pioli wants Vrabel to play.

The Chiefs had a boatload of salary-cap room, a couple of trade-worthy commodities and decent draft position, and they used all of that to get Matt Cassel, Zack Thomas, Mike Vrabel, Tyson Jackson, Bobby Engram, Mike Goff, a 2010 second-round pick and a defensive lineman-to-linebacker conversion kit.

Seriously, at the rate the Chiefs are shedding pounds ó Haley said the team has collectively lost 300 pounds ó I fully expect Glenn Dorsey to line up at free safety by October.

Iím reluctant to say what I think about Kansas Cityís prospects for this season. As previously stated, I couldnít see much of anything at the practice I attended. The only thing I thought I saw was that Cassel seemed far more accurate than Tyler Thigpen.

Well, I also thought I saw a team that looked no better than Herm Edwardsí 2-14 team. But thatís pure speculation from an uninformed member of the media.

To reach Jason Whitlock, call 816-234-4869 or send e-mail to jwhitlock@kcstar.com. For previous columns, go to KansasCity.com.
Posted on Sat, Jun. 06, 2009 10:15 PM

DaFace
06-06-2009, 10:38 PM
http://oyebilly.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/crying-baby.jpg

Mr. Flopnuts
06-06-2009, 10:43 PM
Translation: I don't have shit to write about and I am very angry about it.

Smed1065
06-06-2009, 10:44 PM
Youíre going to read this and know Iím whining!

Seriously, at the rate the Chiefs are shedding pounds ó Haley said the team has collectively lost 300 pounds ó I fully expect Glenn Dorsey to line up at free safety by October.

The only thing I thought I saw was that Cassel seemed far more accurate than Tyler Thigpen.
I saw a team that looked no better than Herm Edwards 2-14 team. But thatís pure speculation from an uninformed member of the media.

Count Zarth
06-06-2009, 10:46 PM
I read like, half a sentence and my brain groaned.

Just Passin' By
06-06-2009, 10:48 PM
Like sands through the vagina, so are the whines of Whitlock's columns.

wild1
06-06-2009, 10:50 PM
It’s my contention that you win professional football, basketball, baseball and hockey games primarily by securing more talent than your competitors. Pioli contends you do it by keeping more secrets than your competitors.


What's funny about that Mr. Whitlock is that the most talented team doesn't always win. The team that plays the best together, as a whole, wins.

Pioli isn't saying that keeping secrets is what creates wins. He recognizes that anything that does not help the team become more cohesive as a unit needs to be removed from the equation.

The media can in no way make the Chiefs a better football team. Scott Pioli has nothing to gain by pampering the local media. Therefore, he won't.

I don't think Joe Sixpack sitting in the upper level gives a rip whether Whitlock got to stand close to the field to observe practice. He cares whether the Chiefs have more points than their opponent when the clock expires. Joe Season Ticket Holder cares about the team returning to watchability, then to respectability, then to playoff credibility. All else is periphery.

If the Chiefs win, all this whining - sorry, but that's what it sounds like - will fall on deaf ears. If they don't win, the heat would be on even if they had been on some Steadman-era crusade to coddle the media. There's nothing for the Chiefs to gain from the media. Therefore, they eliminate the distraction.

It's like the lean movement in manufacturing. Anything that consumes resources and does not contribute positively to the finished product must be eliminated.

Von Dumbass
06-06-2009, 10:51 PM
Or did the Patriots win three Super Bowls because Bill Belichick secretly taped the defensive signals of the opposition?


This.

Count Zarth
06-06-2009, 10:52 PM
The only thread running through this that I agree with is the issue of keeping the media so fucking far away. Nick was telling me about it and yes, that is horribly annoying. Last training camp when the Chiefs moved indoors they stuck the media in a tiny corner and I couldn't see shit, unless the players were right in front of us. It was horribly frustrating.

But given that this is minicamp, it might change. I can't imagine they would keep the media a football field away during training camp. That would basically be sticking us with the fans. So, uh, if we're sitting with fans why do we need credentials, again? And fortunately, when the Chiefs practice in the River Falls stadium, the best vantage point is on the bleachers, so that won't be an issue.

By the way, you know what this reminds me of? Last summer Whitlock was whining about Alfonso Boone starting at defensive end. Turns out Boone wasn't starting at defensive end when the regular season got underway. It was much ado about nothing.

wild1
06-06-2009, 10:55 PM
The only thread running through this that I agree with is the issue of keeping the media so ****ing far away. Nick was telling me about it and yes, that is horribly annoying. Last training camp when the Chiefs moved indoors they stuck the media in a tiny corner and I couldn't see shit, unless the players were right in front of us. It was horribly frustrating.

But given that this is minicamp, it might change. I can't imagine they would keep the media a football field away during training camp. That would basically be sticking us with the fans. So, uh, if we're sitting with fans why do we need credentials, again? And fortunately, when the Chiefs practice in the River Falls stadium, the best vantage point is on the bleachers, so that won't be an issue.

By the way, you know what this reminds me of? Last summer Whitlock was whining about Alfonso Boone starting at defensive end. Turns out Boone wasn't starting at defensive end when the regular season got underway. It was much ado about nothing.

How does playing ball with the media help the Chiefs win the Super Bowl?

Count Zarth
06-06-2009, 10:58 PM
How does playing ball with the media help the Chiefs win the Super Bowl?

It doesn't. It's quite honestly irrelevant. But where the media is standing during practice is also pretty irrelevant. It's not like we're going to divulge some great secret. If we're standing closer, we can see what's going on better, and inform the fans better, and then everybody wins.

FAX
06-06-2009, 11:03 PM
What's funny about that Mr. Whitlock is that the most talented team doesn't always win. The team that plays the best together, as a whole, wins.

Pioli isn't saying that keeping secrets is what creates wins. He recognizes that anything that does not help the team become more cohesive as a unit needs to be removed from the equation.

The media can in no way make the Chiefs a better football team. Scott Pioli has nothing to gain by pampering the local media. Therefore, he won't.

I don't think Joe Sixpack sitting in the upper level gives a rip whether Whitlock got to stand close to the field to observe practice. He cares whether the Chiefs have more points than their opponent when the clock expires. Joe Season Ticket Holder cares about the team returning to watchability, then to respectability, then to playoff credibility. All else is periphery.

If the Chiefs win, all this whining - sorry, but that's what it sounds like - will fall on deaf ears. If they don't win, the heat would be on even if they had been on some Steadman-era crusade to coddle the media. There's nothing for the Chiefs to gain from the media. Therefore, they eliminate the distraction.

It's like the lean movement in manufacturing. Anything that consumes resources and does not contribute positively to the finished product must be eliminated.

Nice post, Mr. wild1.

In a world without media suck ups, will Whittles be forced to protest this crass and demeaning behavior by burning his man-bra on a Plaza sidewalk? Time alone will tell.

FAX

KcMizzou
06-06-2009, 11:05 PM
What's funny about that Mr. Whitlock is that the most talented team doesn't always win. The team that plays the best together, as a whole, wins.

Pioli isn't saying that keeping secrets is what creates wins. He recognizes that anything that does not help the team become more cohesive as a unit needs to be removed from the equation.

The media can in no way make the Chiefs a better football team. Scott Pioli has nothing to gain by pampering the local media. Therefore, he won't.

I don't think Joe Sixpack sitting in the upper level gives a rip whether Whitlock got to stand close to the field to observe practice. He cares whether the Chiefs have more points than their opponent when the clock expires. Joe Season Ticket Holder cares about the team returning to watchability, then to respectability, then to playoff credibility. All else is periphery.

If the Chiefs win, all this whining - sorry, but that's what it sounds like - will fall on deaf ears. If they don't win, the heat would be on even if they had been on some Steadman-era crusade to coddle the media. There's nothing for the Chiefs to gain from the media. Therefore, they eliminate the distraction.

It's like the lean movement in manufacturing. Anything that consumes resources and does not contribute positively to the finished product must be eliminated.Excellent post.

Count Zarth
06-06-2009, 11:11 PM
I don't think Joe Sixpack sitting in the upper level gives a rip whether Whitlock got to stand close to the field to observe practice.

Uh, I do. The closer the media is to things, the better data they can obtain, the better articles they can write, the more they can inform us about.

Phobia
06-06-2009, 11:11 PM
He's right though.

The Chiefs have manipulated and made the media their marketing arm for a lot of years. So much so that radio, print, and TV have full-time dedicated reporters covering their team.

Now they're changing the rules. It's a tough adjustment for these guys. Heck, the Chiefs let me into a mini-camp a couple years ago. Me. Now they're limiting the professional beat reporters to half hour sessions from 100 yards away?

I'd whine too. The Chiefs have nothing to gain from it except ticking off their unofficial, unpaid marketing arm. I don't think they're in any kind of position to be doing that currently.

FAX
06-06-2009, 11:17 PM
We don't need free public relations. We need guys who can block, tackle, throw, catch and run. Better than the other guys, if possible.

I fail to see how Whitlock contributes to that goal. If the Chiefs start winning football games, the stands will be full again. I say, let the press start actually working for their stories instead of bottle feeding on the Chiefs PR department's hairy nipple of disinformation.

FAX

DaFace
06-06-2009, 11:19 PM
Uh, I do. The closer the media is to things, the better data they can obtain, the better articles they can write, the more they can inform us about.

But...I don't really care what the media says if the team is winning.

wild1
06-06-2009, 11:20 PM
Nice post, Mr. wild1.

In a world without media suck ups, will Whittles be forced to protest this crass and demeaning behavior by burning his man-bra on a Plaza sidewalk? Time alone will tell.

FAX

I suppose this gentleman probably does not make his money writing laudatory columns even when the team does well.

I suspect he will direct a lot of fire at Matt Cassel. He'll be easy to criticize. He's not got a huge depth of experience. He's playing the highest pressure position on the field. He was acquired at cost of significant value in the draft. The pressure will be on Cassel to perform even without much help on the offensive side of the ball. Whitlock will have to pick someone to be his new nemesis with Carl gone.

Mr. Whitlock has already aligned himself. But right now he is still the critic with nothing to criticize.

Count Zarth
06-06-2009, 11:21 PM
But...I don't really care what the media says if the team is winning.

I do.

Guys like Whitlock and Posnanski are entertainers first.

I have always enjoyed Whitlock's observations on offseason practices. Now he has been reduced to telling us he couldn't see anything.

Lame.

wild1
06-06-2009, 11:21 PM
Uh, I do. The closer the media is to things, the better data they can obtain, the better articles they can write, the more they can inform us about.

I don't care about the quality of the blogs you guys post. I care about the quality of the football team.

Count Zarth
06-06-2009, 11:23 PM
I care about the quality of the football team.

Are you telling me you have never, ever gotten enjoyment out of something the media has written?

DaFace
06-06-2009, 11:25 PM
Are you telling me you have never, ever gotten enjoyment out of something the media has written?

Two answers:

1. The articles I read the most are the transcriptions of press conferences. We can get those without media access to practices.

2. Sometimes. But I get a lot more enjoyment out of a Chiefs win.

Smed1065
06-06-2009, 11:26 PM
Are you telling me you have never, ever gotten enjoyment out of something the media has written?

1 of 20 is not contributing unless it is a WPI posters view.

Count Zarth
06-06-2009, 11:27 PM
1. The articles I read the most are the transcriptions of press conferences. We can get those without media access to practices.

Ugh. I can do without those.


2. Sometimes. But I get a lot more enjoyment out of a Chiefs win.

So do I. But I want to enjoy everything. Whitlock and JoPo have been our great chroniclers for over a decade. I don't want them hamstrung.

KcMizzou
06-06-2009, 11:28 PM
Our friends on Pats Planet predicted all this media outrage.

FAX
06-06-2009, 11:31 PM
I suppose this gentleman probably does not make his money writing laudatory columns even when the team does well.

I suspect he will direct a lot of fire at Matt Cassel. He'll be easy to criticize. He's not got a huge depth of experience. He's playing the highest pressure position on the field. He was acquired at cost of significant value in the draft. The pressure will be on Cassel to perform even without much help on the offensive side of the ball. Whitlock will have to pick someone to be his new nemesis with Carl gone.

Mr. Whitlock has already aligned himself. But right now he is still the critic with nothing to criticize.

They say that, "Those who can, do. And those who can't, teach." A similar point could be made about sports commentators except they don't really teach - they just criticize and bitch more or less.

It's all about selling advertising in the end. I could care less if the Star signs up Bob's Taco & Bait Emporium to a 12 month series of full page promotions for their Nightcrawler Enchiladas. I'm interested in seeing the Chiefs back in the Super Bowl. If a few media hacks are sacrificed along the way, so be it. In order to make an omelet, eggs must be broken. And Whittles makes one hell of an egg.

FAX

Just Passin' By
06-06-2009, 11:34 PM
Our friends on Pats Planet predicted all this media outrage.

Yes, and it'll go to the backburner once the Chiefs' media adapts. You take a guy like Mike Reiss, and you see that the reporters can still do their jobs. Here's his blog:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/

Once Whitlock gets used to the way it's going to be, he'll settle into a new routine. That is, of course, assuming that Pioli runs the ship similarly to Belichick when it comes to the media.

Whitlock and company will have little choice but to adjust their expectations. Like Brian Waters, they have found that the new front office is not at their beck and call. Like Waters, Whitlock is throwing a hissy fit.

wild1
06-06-2009, 11:34 PM
Are you telling me you have never, ever gotten enjoyment out of something the media has written?

I am not a serial consumer of sports media. I scan media for the essential information and disregard the pap that follows the first few paragraphs.

I have also seen every minute of every Chiefs game for the last two decades. I know when it's raining and when the sun is shining.

I don't need some schmuck journo who flunked out of his first choice of major, and who has never coached a peewee football team, giving me his read on who should be the third defensive end, who will never be seen but on kickoffs.

Media professionals are supposed to be professionals at their craft. I don't see why they can't write stories without Carl Peterson cupping their genitalia.

Strike up the violins I guess.

Phobia
06-06-2009, 11:35 PM
Our friends on Pats Planet predicted all this media outrage.

They were wrong, just like those stupid Jets fans....

rambleonthruthefog
06-06-2009, 11:37 PM
the better articles they can write, the more they can inform us about.


your wpi, right?

wild1
06-06-2009, 11:38 PM
Ugh. I can do without those.



So do I. But I want to enjoy everything. Whitlock and JoPo have been our great chroniclers for over a decade. I don't want them hamstrung.

I wonder if legitimate journalists like Joe Posnanski would not get a little deference. But then again Posnanski is not a serial agitator.

If I were running this team, maybe we wouldn't keep the media 100 yards away, but I would definitely keep some elements as far away from my players and what we are building as possible.

Phobia
06-06-2009, 11:39 PM
Media professionals are supposed to be professionals at their craft. I don't see why they can't write stories without Carl Peterson cupping their genitalia.

I would submit that it's hard to get quotes and a read on a player's mentality from 100 yards away. It's not like the players are clamoring to talk to the media. Even the everyday beat reporters have to build relationships with the players over years. You can't achieve that from afar in 30 minute windows.

Count Zarth
06-06-2009, 11:41 PM
I am not a serial consumer of sports media.

Some of us are. Sucks for us.

wild1
06-06-2009, 11:43 PM
I would submit that it's hard to get quotes and a read on a player's mentality from 100 yards away. It's not like the players are clamoring to talk to the media. Even the everyday beat reporters have to build relationships with the players over years. You can't achieve that from afar in 30 minute windows.

There's no question it has gotten harder for a sports journalist to make a living in Kansas City. It's gotten that way for a lot of us lately.

Pioli's doing his job, insulating his team from distractions in an attempt to get them focused solely on football. The journalists will have to find a way to do something relevant or find another line of work. Those are the breaks.

FAX
06-06-2009, 11:46 PM
Things will probably loosen up after awhile, anyhow.

Right now, the Chiefs have a mammoth project before them. We are a team that redefined the term "suck" last year. Haley and Pioli signed up to turn that group of morons into winners. It's not an easy task and, at this juncture, any distraction is a bad one. I surmise that, after we get some confidence and the new systems in place, Whittles will get better treatment. Or, maybe Haley was referring to Whittles when he talked about the team losing 300 pounds.

FAX

stevieray
06-06-2009, 11:47 PM
who cares?..the media coverage has been on steroids overkill for years....I don't give a squat other than they get out there and do the job they were hired for well...

I think it's refreshing.

morphius
06-06-2009, 11:48 PM
Our friends on Pats Planet predicted all this media outrage.
Heck, we predicted it as well. I'm actually looking forward to the complete Jack Harry meltdown.

Of course I'm trying to figure out why Gretz was able to give a decent report on what happened, I don't believe he has any special access any longer. I guess that the old guy took it as part of the job instead of pouting.

Count Zarth
06-06-2009, 11:49 PM
By the way, who is "Zack Thomas?"

58kcfan89
06-06-2009, 11:51 PM
As an aspiring sports journalist, it kinda sucks to hear that they're so far away from the action, but it's not like it's the end of the world. At the draft party, they put the media away from the fans for the first time in a long time and from what I heard it went pretty well. I think a lot of these guys are getting mad that they have to do more work now than they used to.


As far as Whitlock goes, he acts like Pioli has to pander to the media/fans in order to win and that because he's "keeping secrets," the Chiefs will lose football games. Seems like a pretty big logical fallacy right there...

As a fan, I love all of this.

FAX
06-06-2009, 11:57 PM
By the way, who is "Zack Thomas?"

Zach's younger brother. Nephew to the dentist, Plaque Thomas. Grandson to psychiatrist, Quack Thomas. And, lest we forget, brother to his sister Nice Rack Thomas.

It's kinda late.

FAX

JuicesFlowing
06-07-2009, 12:00 AM
I read like, half a sentence and my brain groaned.

I read the first sentence and knew what the entire article was about, which means that Whitlock really wasted his time. But that makes me happy. I'm glad he's all pissy about the new regime. I don't think a guy should get paid to cry and write about it though, that's just wrong.

stevieray
06-07-2009, 12:05 AM
Zach's younger brother. Nephew to the dentist, Plaque Thomas. Grandson to psychiatrist, Quack Thomas. And, lest we forget, brother to his sister Nice Rack Thomas.

It's kinda late.

FAX

granpappy knickknackpaddywhack thomas?

FAX
06-07-2009, 12:10 AM
Speaking of which ... what is a knick knack paddy and why would you wish to whack one?

FAX

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 12:11 AM
Speaking of which ... what is a knick knack paddy and why would you wish to whack one?

FAX

Secrecy.

stevieray
06-07-2009, 12:16 AM
Speaking of which ... what is a knick knack paddy and why would you wish to whack one?

FAX
something to do with Angus Young givin a dog a bone....

FAX
06-07-2009, 12:18 AM
Hmmm. Personally, I believe it's time that the knick knack paddy problem were allowed to come out into the open. First, the Fed loans trillions of dollars in off-balance sheet transactions and now we're keeping the knick knack paddy issue quiet.

Enough is enough. I'm calling here and now for full knick knack paddy disclosure. If this country is going to be free, total knick knack paddy transparency is crucial. It's time. Let the sun shine on the knick knack paddy ... I think.

FAX

KcMizzou
06-07-2009, 12:21 AM
something to do with Angus Young givin a dog a bone....I have no idea what you're talking about, but... AC/DC rep.

morphius
06-07-2009, 12:26 AM
Hmmm. Personally, I believe it's time that the knick knack paddy problem were allowed to come out into the open. First, the Fed loans trillions of dollars in off-balance sheet transactions and now we're keeping the knick knack paddy issue quiet.

Enough is enough. I'm calling here and now for full knick knack paddy disclosure. If this country is going to be free, total knick knack paddy transparency is crucial. It's time. Let the sun shine on the knick knack paddy ... I think.

FAX
Just don't be shocked when this old man plays four on your door and you wake up to find yourself in gitmo.

BigRock
06-07-2009, 12:30 AM
Youíre going to read this and think Iím whining. Iím not.

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6420/whoopibitchplease.jpg

JuicesFlowing
06-07-2009, 12:32 AM
your wpi, right?

You can find out for only $109!!!!!

Pestilence
06-07-2009, 12:40 AM
Fuck the media.

Raised On Riots
06-07-2009, 01:48 AM
The only thread running through this that I agree with is the issue of keeping the media so fucking far away.

So is Gretz the only guy with a birds-eye view now? I ask, because his article today was the only one that showcased any actual play.

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 01:54 AM
So is Gretz the only guy with a birds-eye view now? I ask, because his article today was the only one that showcased any actual play.

I think Gretz maybe works at it a little harder than Whitlock. LMAO

Whitlock wants to watch practice and form a premise, though. Gretz is just reporting snippets of info.

T-post Tom
06-07-2009, 01:57 AM
Mr. Gretz is out-hustling Mr. Gates: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=208678

J Diddy
06-07-2009, 01:58 AM
I think Gretz maybe works at it a little harder than Whitlock. LMAO

Whitlock wants to watch practice and form a premise, though. Gretz is just reporting snippets of info.

Seems odd that Whitlock isn't getting those snippets of into.

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 02:00 AM
Seems odd that Whitlock isn't getting those snippets of into.

I'm guessing he is. He's just not interested in writing about it.

Raised On Riots
06-07-2009, 02:05 AM
I think Gretz maybe works at it a little harder than Whitlock. LMAO

Whitlock wants to watch practice and form a premise, though. Gretz is just reporting snippets of info.

I don't mind the piss and vinegar as long as it's informative piss and vinegar.

mikey23545
06-07-2009, 03:12 AM
Childish, paranoiac secrecy is not professional.

the Talking Can
06-07-2009, 05:38 AM
Itís my contention that you win professional football, basketball, baseball and hockey games primarily by securing more talent than your competitors. Pioli contends you do it by keeping more secrets than your competitors.

wow...the dishonesty of that passage is breath taking...

where has pioli, or anyone, ever said something so stupid?

that is a Fox News special....

Whitlock is acting like we works at WPI...

sodcat
06-07-2009, 05:45 AM
"I want the Chiefs to win, so Iím going to do my part and get as far away from the practice field as possible. Even farther than I was Saturday morning during a minicamp practice. Yep, we were allowed to stand about 100 yards (an entire football field) away from where the Chiefs practiced."
500 miles is still to close for this idiot!

Comanche
06-07-2009, 06:19 AM
Scary Avatar

You have a SNAKE avatar! Ooooh, SCARY! LMAO

HonestChieffan
06-07-2009, 06:21 AM
Very good start. Now if the Chiefs can get Kietzman into a week long rant, Im a 100% Pioli backer.Sports Media in KC are all overblown and the herd needs to be thinned.

Im still hoping 610 goes back to being a local Radio station with news, weather so people who live 20 miles from the plaza can get radio from KC at night.

Herzig
06-07-2009, 06:26 AM
What's funny about that Mr. Whitlock is that the most talented team doesn't always win. The team that plays the best together, as a whole, wins.

Pioli isn't saying that keeping secrets is what creates wins. He recognizes that anything that does not help the team become more cohesive as a unit needs to be removed from the equation.

The media can in no way make the Chiefs a better football team. Scott Pioli has nothing to gain by pampering the local media. Therefore, he won't.

I don't think Joe Sixpack sitting in the upper level gives a rip whether Whitlock got to stand close to the field to observe practice. He cares whether the Chiefs have more points than their opponent when the clock expires. Joe Season Ticket Holder cares about the team returning to watchability, then to respectability, then to playoff credibility. All else is periphery.

If the Chiefs win, all this whining - sorry, but that's what it sounds like - will fall on deaf ears. If they don't win, the heat would be on even if they had been on some Steadman-era crusade to coddle the media. There's nothing for the Chiefs to gain from the media. Therefore, they eliminate the distraction.

It's like the lean movement in manufacturing. Anything that consumes resources and does not contribute positively to the finished product must be eliminated.

I'd like to meet this "Joe Sixpack" fella. LOL...I thought I saw an SNL skit on him a couple of months ago.

Deberg_1990
06-07-2009, 06:40 AM
He's right though.

The Chiefs have manipulated and made the media their marketing arm for a lot of years. So much so that radio, print, and TV have full-time dedicated reporters covering their team.

Now they're changing the rules. It's a tough adjustment for these guys. Heck, the Chiefs let me into a mini-camp a couple years ago. Me. Now they're limiting the professional beat reporters to half hour sessions from 100 yards away?

I'd whine too. The Chiefs have nothing to gain from it except ticking off their unofficial, unpaid marketing arm. I don't think they're in any kind of position to be doing that currently.

Sounds like Whitlock might be whining because hes afraid of losing his job in the long term?

Braincase
06-07-2009, 07:45 AM
It's a mystery, and if we want to know whodunnit, we'll have to watch on Sundays. In the meantime, all that is left is idle speculation.... or in Whitlock's case, "idol" speculation.

Skip Towne
06-07-2009, 08:20 AM
I'd say 200 yards away is more appropriate for hacks like Nick Athan.

gblowfish
06-07-2009, 08:24 AM
Fatlock gets all his info from strippers and hookers anyway...
No Great Loss.

Mr. Arrowhead
06-07-2009, 08:35 AM
Whitlock wanted King Carl gone (which 99.9% of chiefs fan were happy with), and he got it, now he still bitches

Mr. Krab
06-07-2009, 08:48 AM
http://oyebilly.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/crying-baby.jpg

This

Coogs
06-07-2009, 08:51 AM
Two answers:

1. The articles I read the most are the transcriptions of press conferences. We can get those without media access to practices.

2. Sometimes. But I get a lot more enjoyment out of a Chiefs win.

This

Gretz is really the only one who gives any actual practice info to go along with the press conference.

JASONSAUTO
06-07-2009, 10:04 AM
Uh, I do. The closer the media is to things, the better data they can obtain, the better articles they can write, the more they can inform us about.

glad you FINALLY realized something in that pathetic life of yours

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 10:14 AM
Whitlock never writes anything informative about the Chiefs anyway. I would like to hear more about the team I love from other reporters though.
I have to think there could be some middle ground, the team needs the fans as much as ever right now. We are all very excited about the future of this team, they could give us a little more to be excited about.

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 10:22 AM
Whitlock never writes anything informative about the Chiefs anyway. .

He broke the friggin Brian Waters story.

He doesn't get enough credit around here.

Marco Polo
06-07-2009, 10:26 AM
He broke the friggin Brian Waters story.

He doesn't get enough credit around here.

That story sounded like Waters contacted him. If so, then it'd be pretty easy to break the story.

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 10:27 AM
That story sounded like Waters contacted him. If so, then it'd be pretty easy to break the story.

Yeah, Waters just chooses people at random.

JASONSAUTO
06-07-2009, 10:29 AM
Yeah, Waters just chooses people at random.

YOU are such a dumbass, Whitlock does not=random person...YET.

rad
06-07-2009, 10:30 AM
Yeah, Waters just chooses people at random.

:LOL:

Marco Polo
06-07-2009, 10:31 AM
Yeah, Waters just chooses people at random.

JW is not some random guy. I'm sure he and Waters have developed quite the rapport over the years. Any person with any kind of high level job experience knows that if you have a beef with a union/management issue, you go to the press. Waters is a smart guy and figured he could use the press (JW) so everyone would be on his side. However, all it did was make him look bad IMO.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 10:31 AM
He broke the friggin Brian Waters story.

He doesn't get enough credit around here.

That was the one story I could think of, I almost mentioned it but didnt. I think that story wound up in his lap. If you wanted to report something negative about the Chiefs, who would you give it too. The guy that would run to the printing press with it. I will give him credit for that, is that better.

EyePod
06-07-2009, 10:37 AM
http://www.muzikfakultesi.com/portal/files/tiniest_violin_538.jpg

BarrySPAMAID
06-07-2009, 11:40 AM
Translation: I don't have shit to write about and I am very angry about it.
YUP. This is EXACTLY what I am talking about.

I read like, half a sentence and my brain groaned.

Whitlock, serving SHIT to the masses OVER AND OVER again.

Like sands through the vagina, so are the whines of Whitlock's columns.
Jason Whiltock being kept 100 yards away from this football team, is the best Idea I have heard yet!!

The only thread running through this that I agree with is the issue of keeping the media so ****ing far away. Nick was telling me about it and yes, that is horribly annoying. Last training camp when the Chiefs moved indoors they stuck the media in a tiny corner and I couldn't see shit, unless the players were right in front of us. It was horribly frustrating.

But given that this is minicamp, it might change. I can't imagine they would keep the media a football field away during training camp. That would basically be sticking us with the fans. So, uh, if we're sitting with fans why do we need credentials, again? And fortunately, when the Chiefs practice in the River Falls stadium, the best vantage point is on the bleachers, so that won't be an issue.

By the way, you know what this reminds me of? Last summer Whitlock was whining about Alfonso Boone starting at defensive end. Turns out Boone wasn't starting at defensive end when the regular season got underway. It was much ado about nothing.

Exactly, and Jason Whiltock has NOTHING right now, and he knows it.

What's funny about that Mr. Whitlock is that the most talented team doesn't always win. The team that plays the best together, as a whole, wins.

Pioli isn't saying that keeping secrets is what creates wins. He recognizes that anything that does not help the team become more cohesive as a unit needs to be removed from the equation.

The media can in no way make the Chiefs a better football team. Scott Pioli has nothing to gain by pampering the local media. Therefore, he won't.

I don't think Joe Sixpack sitting in the upper level gives a rip whether Whitlock got to stand close to the field to observe practice. He cares whether the Chiefs have more points than their opponent when the clock expires. Joe Season Ticket Holder cares about the team returning to watchability, then to respectability, then to playoff credibility. All else is periphery.

If the Chiefs win, all this whining - sorry, but that's what it sounds like - will fall on deaf ears. If they don't win, the heat would be on even if they had been on some Steadman-era crusade to coddle the media. There's nothing for the Chiefs to gain from the media. Therefore, they eliminate the distraction.

It's like the lean movement in manufacturing. Anything that consumes resources and does not contribute positively to the finished product must be eliminated.

WOW, what a POST!!! Well said Sir!!

Uh, I do. The closer the media is to things, the better data they can obtain, the better articles they can write, the more they can inform us about.

To a certain degree. But the further Whiltlock stays away from this team the better as far as I'm concerned.

petegz28
06-07-2009, 11:43 AM
What a man, Jason you are, yo cooperating with Pioli on all this. I mean...like you have a ****ing choice.

LMAO

COchief
06-07-2009, 11:56 AM
Last training camp when the Chiefs moved indoors they stuck the media in a tiny corner and I couldn't see shit,

:LOL:

You are not a member of the media, you are a fanboy hack that works for a running joke.

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 12:03 PM
:LOL:

You are not a member of the media, you are a fanboy hack that works for a running joke.

OK. They stuck the fanboy hacks in the corner. We couldn't see shit. Happy?

wild1
06-07-2009, 12:09 PM
You have a SNAKE avatar! Ooooh, SCARY! LMAO

who the hell are you?

wild1
06-07-2009, 12:12 PM
LOL... Cryin' Waters calls Whitlock up to blubber on his shoulder about how he's not being babied by the front office anymore. And Whitlock gets credit for "breaking the story".

Congratulations on "breaking the story" that was put in your lap. You successfully managed to totter over to the computer and type the column. Nice work.

stlchiefs
06-07-2009, 12:24 PM
I'm surprised a board of people that are obviously interested in the Chiefs enough to log on and post thousands of times on a message board dedicated to them are on Whitlock about this. We relish in Chiefs news and the shutdown of the flow of information doesn't benefit those of us with an insatiable appetite for news about the Chiefs. I'm all for Pioli turning around this 2 win team and if CIA secrecy is what it takes fine, but it's going to be a boring team to follow besides for Sundays if there's never any news or newsworthy articles to read about.

Mr. Krab
06-07-2009, 12:28 PM
I'm surprised a board of people that are obviously interested in the Chiefs enough to log on and post thousands of times on a message board dedicated to them are on Whitlock about this. We relish in Chiefs news and the shutdown of the flow of information doesn't benefit those of us with an insatiable appetite for news about the Chiefs. I'm all for Pioli turning around this 2 win team and if CIA secrecy is what it takes fine, but it's going to be a boring team to follow besides for Sundays if there's never any news or newsworthy articles to read about.Gretz seems to be doing alright.

Chocolate Hog
06-07-2009, 12:30 PM
lol Whitlocks story about Waters wasn't even true he showed up to camp anyway. Whitlock is a shitty journalist he should work for ESPN.

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 12:34 PM
We relish in Chiefs news and the shutdown of the flow of information doesn't benefit those of us with an insatiable appetite for news about the Chiefs.

Ding ding ding!

This is what I have been saying.

Just Passin' By
06-07-2009, 12:37 PM
Ding ding ding!

This is what I have been saying.

Yes, the total absence of reports has been a grave disappointment for Chiefs fans, I'm sure. If only there were reporters capable of doing something like, say, filing a report. If even just one reporter could pull that off...

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 12:50 PM
:LOL:

You are not a member of the media, you are a fanboy hack that works for a running joke.

That is just, not true.

Brock
06-07-2009, 12:51 PM
It is true. WPI is a joke. Nick Athan is a joke.

mlyonsd
06-07-2009, 12:56 PM
Youíre going to read this and think Iím whining.

Whitlock is more perceptive than I thought.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 12:59 PM
It is true. WPI is a joke. Nick "Assclown" Athan is a joke.

The magazine is good and I believe gives credibility to WPI. If you have ever read it, then I will give your opinion more weight. If you havent, then reserve your judgment. The site is in need of some help but there are some good writers there, including Wendler. It isnt all about Nick Athan.

Chocolate Hog
06-07-2009, 01:00 PM
The magazine is good and I believe gives credibility to WPI. If you have ever read it, then I will give your opinion more weight. If you havent, then reserve your judgment. The site is in need of some help but there are some good writers there, including Wendler. It isnt all about Nick "Assclown" Athan.

WPI is paying people to pimp there magazine on other websites now?

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 01:01 PM
The magazine is good and I believe gives credibility to WPI. If you have ever read it, then I will give your opinion more weight. If you havent, then reserve your judgment. The site is in need of some help but there are some good writers there, including Wendler. It isnt all about Nick "Assclown" Athan.

You're wasting your breath. WPI is hated here. There is no redemption. Just let them hate. It's what they do best. Just look at this thread.

Brock
06-07-2009, 01:04 PM
The magazine is good and I believe gives credibility to WPI. If you have ever read it, then I will give your opinion more weight. If you havent, then reserve your judgment. The site is in need of some help but there are some good writers there, including Wendler. It isnt all about Nick "Assclown" Athan.

The magazine isn't good, WPI has no credibility. See "The deal is done". I've read it, I get free copies in the mail all the time, it sucks. Athan is horrible, Wendler is just some fanboy with no journalistic integrity or skill. Anyone who writes for that "publication" does so because it's as close to being a journalist as they'll ever get, without actually having to learn how to do it.

Just Passin' By
06-07-2009, 01:13 PM
Someone just posted this article elsewhere:


Mini-Camp Update 6/7 A.M.
June 7, 2009 - Bob Gretz |

From the Truman Sports Complex...

Some observations from the workout:

Ė On special teams, the Chiefs worked on kickoffs, both coverage and returns. Itís apparent the field is wide open on kickoff returns. There were five different guys handling kicks: Quentin Lawrence, Ricky Price, Jackie Battle, Rodney Wright and Londen Fryar. Last yearís two best kick returners still on the roster are RBs Jamaal Charles and Dantrell Savage and they were working as coverage guys.

Ė In the one-on-one pass/coverage drill in the red zone, several plays stood out. WR Devard Darling made a nice move on Carr for a catch. WR Terrance Copper had two nice moves, but dropped one of the throws. He caught the second one on CB Ricardo Colclough, who earlier had nice coverage on WR Jeff Webb. Rookie WR Taurus Johnson had a nice catch in the end zone against CB Brandon Flowers

Ė Working at the right cornerback position were Flowers, Colclough and rookie Jackie Battle. Working at the left corner were Leggett, Carr, Travis Daniels and Fryar.

Ė In the seven-on-seven team passing drill that worked in the red zone, each quarterback got five snaps. Each one completed just two of their five plays. The only score came when Ingle Martin hit Lawrence in the end zone, against the No. 1 defense.

Ė In one-on-one pass protection/pass rush drills, No. 1 draft choice Tyson Jackson worked against RT Damion McIntosh. Jackson beat the veteran on an inside move on the first rep, but McIntosh handled him on the next two. Third-round choice Alex Magee went against G Edwin Harrison and it was Harrison who won two of the three snaps.

Ė In that seven-on-seven drill, OLB Tamba Hali knocked down a pass at the goal line in a nice zone drop and Flowers knocked down another pass.

Ė In teamwork, RB Jackie Battle ran with the first offense and had a nice run to break things open. A draw play with Battle was sniffed out by LB Monty Beisel. The only score of the red zone work came when QB Tyler Thigpen hit WR C.J. Jones in the end zone for a TD.

Is Gretz making all of this up? I ask because Whitlock makes it pretty clear that it's impossible for reporters to do their jobs now.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 01:13 PM
The magazine isn't good, WPI has no credibility. See "The deal is done". I've read it, I get free copies in the mail all the time, it sucks. Athan is horrible, Wendler is just some fanboy with no journalistic integrity or skill. Anyone who writes for that "publication" does so because it's as close to being a journalist as they'll ever get, without actually having to learn how to do it.

If you have read it, then you are certainly entitled to your opinion. If there is a better Chiefs magazine out there, I would love to hear about it. I will no longer defend Nick but Ash, Clifton and Wendler are pretty good. IMO.
I realize the serious hate that goes on over here but I also think it gets in the way of objective opinion.

Brock
06-07-2009, 01:15 PM
It's the only "Chiefs magazine" there is, so how could it help but be the best one? Hell, the training camp reports from the students at UWRF are better written and more informative than WPI.

Mr. Arrowhead
06-07-2009, 01:16 PM
If you have read it, then you are certainly entitled to your opinion. If there is a better Chiefs magazine out there, I would love to hear about it. I will no longer defend Nick but Ash, Clifton and Wendler are pretty good. IMO.
I realize the serious hate that goes on over here but I also think it gets in the way of objective opinion.

ROFL ROFL ROFL

Nzoner
06-07-2009, 01:22 PM
As long as I get to see a winning team on Sundays I could give two shits what any sports reporter thinks.

wild1
06-07-2009, 01:23 PM
If you have read it, then you are certainly entitled to your opinion. If there is a better Chiefs magazine out there, I would love to hear about it. I will no longer defend Nick but Ash, Clifton and Wendler are pretty good. IMO.
I realize the serious hate that goes on over here but I also think it gets in the way of objective opinion.

Assclown a douche but the other bloggers over there are no better.

I could read the KC Star or another professional media organization - for free - or I could read something written by people who have no clue about football or about journalism, and pay for that privilege. Where do I sign up!?!?!?

milkman
06-07-2009, 01:27 PM
It's the only "Chiefs magazine" there is, so how could it help but be the best one? Hell, the training camp reports from the students at UWRF are better written and more informative than WPI.

That's stretching it a little.

wild1
06-07-2009, 01:29 PM
That's stretching it a little.

someone in the process of completing journalism studies > blogger

King_Chief_Fan
06-07-2009, 01:29 PM
If you have read it, then you are certainly entitled to your opinion. If there is a better Chiefs magazine out there, I would love to hear about it. I will no longer defend Nick but Ash, Clifton and Wendler are pretty good. IMO.
I realize the serious hate that goes on over here but I also think it gets in the way of objective opinion.

Bwaaa ha ha ha ha ha

Mr. Arrowhead
06-07-2009, 01:32 PM
maybe whitlock fat cheekbones block his vision

milkman
06-07-2009, 01:33 PM
someone in the process of completing journalism studies > blogger

Someone in the process of completing journalism studies, who it appears has never watched a football game in their lives, and can barely tell the difference between a QB and a DT is not> than a blogger who at least knows what a football looks like.

Skip Towne
06-07-2009, 01:33 PM
That is just, not true.

Yes. it. is.

DaKCMan AP
06-07-2009, 01:34 PM
It doesn't. It's quite honestly irrelevant. But where the media is standing during practice is also pretty irrelevant. It's not like we're going to divulge some great secret. If we're standing closer, we can see what's going on better, and inform the fans better, and then everybody wins.

We're? We? You're not a member of the media.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 01:37 PM
Bwaaa ha ha ha ha ha

Whats so funny? I think the magazine is decent and the writers I mentioned are pretty good too.

Once one of you get published, then you can laugh.

Mr. Arrowhead
06-07-2009, 01:38 PM
Whats so funny? I think the magazine is decent and the writers I mentioned are pretty good too.

Once one of you get published, then you can laugh.

you must pay for it then

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 01:40 PM
you must pay for it then

I pay, to help support the site, same as I do here. The magazine is a bonus. If Chiefs Planet had one, I would read it too.

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 01:41 PM
Hell, the training camp reports from the students at UWRF are better written and more informative than WPI.

Not really. They can't even get basic football terminology correct.

King_Chief_Fan
06-07-2009, 01:43 PM
Whats so funny? I think the magazine is decent and the writers I mentioned are pretty good too.

Once one of you get published, then you can laugh.

to each his own said the lady that kissed the cow

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 01:44 PM
We're? We? You're not a member of the media.

I don't really care what label you apply. It's rather insignificant.

Brock
06-07-2009, 01:46 PM
Not really. They can't even get basic football terminology correct.

Neither does WPI.

DaKCMan AP
06-07-2009, 01:47 PM
I don't really care what label you apply. It's rather insignificant.

It's significant enough for me to point out your blatant misrepresentation.

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 01:49 PM
It's significant enough for me to point out your blatant misrepresentation.

ooooooooooooooooooooo

http://i39.tinypic.com/f55z09.gif

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 01:50 PM
Neither does WPI.

Prove it.

Brock
06-07-2009, 01:51 PM
Prove it.

Most of your articles.

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 01:52 PM
Most of your articles.

Try again.

DaKCMan AP
06-07-2009, 01:53 PM
ooooooooooooooooooooo



It's no wonder you lack an ounce of credibility.

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 01:54 PM
It's no wonder you lack an ounce of credibility.

With hatemongering dipshits like you and Brock running around, who cares?

DaKCMan AP
06-07-2009, 01:55 PM
With hatemongering dipshits like you and Brock running around, who cares?

Correctly pointing out that, despite what you'd like to think, you are not a member of the media is hardly hatemongering.

Slainte
06-07-2009, 01:57 PM
WPI: The 1910 Fruitgum Company of journalism

Brock
06-07-2009, 01:59 PM
With hatemongering dipshits like you and Brock running around, who cares?

You care, obviously. You should care more about the rudderless, empty waste of time you call your life story, though.

KCChiefsMan
06-07-2009, 01:59 PM
The Chiefs should have just been honest and said "we don't respect you as a writer, so GTFO"

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 02:05 PM
Correctly pointing out that, despite what you'd like to think, you are not a member of the media is hardly hatemongering.

Sure it is.

Especially when you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Phobia
06-07-2009, 02:08 PM
Sure it is.

Especially when you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

You are a hobbyist - just like me. Real journalists actually support their families. When I can support my family with my writing then I'll be a real journalist. Until then, I'm an amateur.

DaKCMan AP
06-07-2009, 02:09 PM
Sure it is.

Especially when you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

:LOL:

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 02:10 PM
:LOL:

Tap out acknowledged. Concession accepted.

DaKCMan AP
06-07-2009, 02:12 PM
Tap out acknowledged. Concession accepted.

Concession? You're not a member of the media. You're not a journalist. You're not a reporter. There's nothing disputable about that.

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 02:12 PM
Concession? You're not a member of the media. You're not a journalist. You're not a reporter. There's nothing disputable about that.

You're entitled to your opinion.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 02:13 PM
You are a hobbyist - just like me. Real journalists actually support their families. When I can support my family with my writing then I'll be a real journalist. Until then, I'm an amateur.

I think both of you do very well. You have to start somewhere. Getting published is the first step to credibility.

Brock
06-07-2009, 02:14 PM
I think both of you do very well. You have to start somewhere. Getting published is the first step to credibility.

That's incredible. Anybody anywhere can "get published".

DaKCMan AP
06-07-2009, 02:18 PM
You're entitled to your opinion.

It's not an opinion. It's fact.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 02:19 PM
That's incredible. Anybody anywhere can "get published".

So what newspaper or magazine have you written for?

Swazey
06-07-2009, 03:05 PM
Seriously, I fully expect Glenn Dorsey to line up at free safety by October.
.

Brock
06-07-2009, 03:12 PM
So what newspaper or magazine have you written for?

Though I've been published, it's not relevant. The people who think the government planned 9/11 have been published, and according to you, they now have "credibility" because they've been published.

DeezNutz
06-07-2009, 03:13 PM
I think both of you do very well. You have to start somewhere. Getting published is the first step to credibility.

Even if it's only on the intraweb?

Oops, looks like I've been published, approximately. 12,800 times, to be exact.

Skip Towne
06-07-2009, 03:17 PM
Though I've been published, it's not relevant. The people who think the government planned 9/11 have been published, and according to you, they now have "credibility" because they've been published.

I'm going to write a letter to the editor of Phobia's paper so I can get "published"

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 03:27 PM
Though I've been published, it's not relevant. The people who think the government planned 9/11 have been published, and according to you, they now have "credibility" because they've been published.

I said, "getting published is the first step to credibility." That doesnt mean your 3rd grade poem was put in the school paper.(that was meant for DeezNutz) You know what I mean. A football article, published in a football magazine or a sports page in a newspaper. That is the first step. Both Phobia and Clayton have done this. I think they both have talent. I think that people on a message board are far to harsh to one another.

wild1
06-07-2009, 03:27 PM
what does it take to "get published"? You have to call up a web hosting company and pay them $20 a month.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 03:29 PM
what does it take to "get published"? You have to call up a web hosting company and pay them $20 a month.

Why dont you write an article about the Chiefs and find out?

gblowfish
06-07-2009, 03:37 PM
Got news for you. Everybody who writes anything on a public website like this is now "published."

The series of tubes called the intraweb is making traditional journalism go away, like how computers made line-o-type machines obsolete.

wild1
06-07-2009, 03:37 PM
Why dont you write an article about the Chiefs and find out?

Because I have a real life and a real profession. I don't need to play dress-up... like some make-believe sports reporter, in my spare time.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 03:40 PM
Got news for you. Everybody who writes anything on a public website like this is now "published."

The series of tubes called the intraweb is making traditional journalism go away, like how computers made line-o-type machines obsolete.

I said, "getting published is the first step to credibility." That doesnt mean your 3rd grade poem was put in the school paper.(that was meant for DeezNutz) You know what I mean. A football article, published in a football magazine or a sports page in a newspaper. That is the first step. Both Phobia and Clayton have done this. I think they both have talent. I think that people on a message board are far to harsh to one another.

Thanks, I'll say it again.

wild1
06-07-2009, 03:42 PM
Thanks, I'll say it again.

The fact that you called up a printing company and got 48 pages of bullshit put onto paper does not make you qualified.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 03:44 PM
Because I have a real life and a real profession. I don't need to play dress-up... like some make-believe sports reporter, in my spare time.

what does it take to "get published"? You have to call up a web hosting company and pay them $20 a month.

You sure its not the $20 bucks?

Come on, its easy to criticize. The fact is, this is a magazine we are talking about. These guys write for it, that DOES give them some credibility.

gblowfish
06-07-2009, 03:46 PM
The fact that you called up a printing company and got 48 pages of bullshit put onto paper does not make you qualified.

I agree with this.

Ever heard of the "Vanity Press?"

If you want be a published author, you can give a publisher $4000 and poof...you're a published author!

If you write for the KC Star, or SI, or TSN, I'd say you're a sports journalist. Doesn't mean you're good at it. Jo Pos and Fatlock are night and day. Jo Pos wins national awards, Fatlock is a joke.

Deberg_1990
06-07-2009, 03:47 PM
Fatlock is a joke.

No hes not. Hes been in the national spotlight many times.

I dont always agree with him, but hes a good writer.

Yes, JoPo and Whitlock have completely different styles, but they compliment each other.

Whitlock = Muckraker

JoPo = Always positive, Mainstream, play it safe, lets be nice...

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 03:48 PM
The fact that you called up a printing company and got 48 pages of bullshit put onto paper does not make you qualified.

You obviously have not read it.

Just Passin' By
06-07-2009, 03:48 PM
You sure its not the $20 bucks?

Come on, its easy to criticize. The fact is, this is a magazine we are talking about. These guys write for it, that DOES give them some credibility.

No, it doesn't. It just means that they write for a magazine.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 03:51 PM
I agree with this.

Ever heard of the "Vanity Press?"

If you want be a published author, you can give a publisher $4000 and poof...you're a published author!

If you write for the KC Star, or SI, or TSN, I'd say you're a sports journalist. Doesn't mean you're good at it. Jo Pos and Fatlock are night and day. Jo Pos wins national awards, Fatlock is a joke.

WPI is published by Scout, which is owned by FOX sports. Its not "vanity press" its a nationwide sports network. Whitlock has been on ESPN. You are wrong.

DeezNutz
06-07-2009, 03:51 PM
This comment is not directed at any individual:

There are all sorts of magazines, each with different placements on the hierarchical scale of credibility. Same thing with newspapers.

If ones' goal is simply to get published in a magazine or newspaper, and any one will do, this goal isn't too difficult to accomplish.

gblowfish
06-07-2009, 03:52 PM
No hes not. Hes been in the national spotlight many times.

I dont always agree with him, but hes a good writer.

Yes, JoPo and Whitlock have completely different styles, but they compliment each other.

Whitlock = Muckraker

JoPo = Always positive, Mainstream, play it safe, lets be nice...

Fatlock is good at writing signs to post in press box windows, but thats about it.

DeezNutz
06-07-2009, 03:52 PM
Whitlock is a very talented columnist, IMO. The fact that he was a regular on Rome and Sports Reporters suggests many others believe the same thing.

gblowfish
06-07-2009, 03:53 PM
WPI is published by Scout, which is owned by FOX sports. Its not "vanity press" its a nationwide sports network. Whitlock has been on ESPN. You are wrong.

Oh Fox.

Yeah, they're legit, especially their news division.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 03:54 PM
No, it doesn't. It just means that they write for a magazine.

So whats your criteria for a sports writer? One with some credibility, of course.

DeezNutz
06-07-2009, 03:56 PM
So whats your criteria for a sports writer? One with some credibility, of course.

Credibility starts with a journalism degree.

Alternatively, one could have a wealth of experience of some type that translates well to the job of journalist. Ex-player for the sport that he/she's covering, professional author, etc.

Just Passin' By
06-07-2009, 03:56 PM
Oh Fox.

Yeah, they're legit, especially their news division.

Yes, they are. People are confusing "legitimate" and "credible" with "I like".

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 03:57 PM
Oh Fox.

Yeah, they're legit, especially their news division.

So you wouldnt consider anyone who writes for FOX sports a sports writer?

You are moving the goal posts.

gblowfish
06-07-2009, 03:58 PM
Whitlock is all about Whitlock. His writing style makes himself part of the story waaaay too often.

I've been to Journalism School. Believe me, just because you work for today's mainstream media doesn't necessarily make you a journalist.

Fatlock is a muck raker. He is very good at that. He's a sports journalist the same way Ann Coulter is a Political Analyst.

wild1
06-07-2009, 04:00 PM
So whats your criteria for a sports writer? One with some credibility, of course.

A sportswriter is someone who makes his primary income from writing about sports.

Just Passin' By
06-07-2009, 04:01 PM
So whats your criteria for a sports writer? One with some credibility, of course.

Credibility is earned. It's not a birth right, and it's not an entitlement granted upon getting a job in the industry. You gain credibility by convincing people that you're believable and worth listening to/reading/hearing, especially by proving yourself accurate over time.

WPI, for an example, has almost no credibility on this board. Others may find it more credible. I wouldn't know whether or not I find it credible because I've never dealt with it.

Once you get to the area where millions are relying upon you (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, CNN, etc...), that particular station has credibility in general, even if not to specific people. Sports Illustrated has a certain amount of earned credibility that "Bobs house of fish bait and football commentary" does not.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 04:02 PM
Whitlock is all about Whitlock. His writing style makes himself part of the story waaaay too often.

I've been to Journalism School. Believe me, just because you work for today's mainstream media doesn't necessarily make you a journalist.

Fatlock is a muck raker. He is very good at that. He's a sports journalist the same way Ann Coulter is a Political Analyst.

Though I dislike Ann Coulter, there is no denying, she IS a political analyst. The writings she has published, give her credibility.

wild1
06-07-2009, 04:02 PM
So you wouldnt consider anyone who writes for FOX sports a sports writer?

You are moving the goal posts.

These bloggers do not "write for Fox". They work for little or no pay for a fanboy website hosted by another website that is a collection of fanboy websites, which is owned by a subsidiary of Fox.

You think mopping up puke on the exit for Space Mountain makes you Michael Eisner.

DeezNutz
06-07-2009, 04:03 PM
Though I dislike Ann Coulter, there is no denying, she IS a political analyst. The writings she has published, give her credibility.

Anyone can publish.

It's the validity of the argument and the quality of analysis that also help establish credibility.

Phobia
06-07-2009, 04:08 PM
A sportswriter is someone who makes his primary income from writing about sports.

Almost agreed. But not quite. Someone who makes a livable primary income from writing about sports.

gblowfish
06-07-2009, 04:08 PM
Though I dislike Ann Coulter, there is no denying, she IS a political analyst. The writings she has published, give her credibility.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Part of Fatlock's "credibility" is due to his premeditated controversy. The comparison to Ann Coulter I think is accurate. Yes, he's been on Jim Rome. Yes, he's been on Sports Reporters - although I think he wore out his welcome there, same as he's worn out his welcome at all the local sports radio stations.

Fatlock couldn't make it as a straight reporter. I'll take Chiefs info from Ken Babb or Adam Teisher, or even (and this is a big stretch, considering his difficult extraction of his nose from King Carl's rectum) from Blob Gretz before anything Fatlock writes.

The point is, the Chiefs are limiting access to their players, and Fatlock is throwing a hissy fit with this morning's column, because he has no new info, and that pisses him off.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 04:09 PM
Anyone can publish.

It's the validity of the argument and the quality of analysis that also help establish credibility.

Agreed. That is why getting published is the FIRST step. I have read WPI magazine and I enjoy the analysis which is what leads me to extend credibility to some of its writers.
Have any of you read the magazine?

Just Passin' By
06-07-2009, 04:12 PM
Though I dislike Ann Coulter, there is no denying, she IS a political analyst. The writings she has published, give her credibility.

These are different things that you're conflating. Yes, Coulter is clearly a political analyst. She's also published and famous. None of those things, on their own, give her credibility.

That's a separate category.

gblowfish
06-07-2009, 04:14 PM
Saying Ann Coulter is a political analyst is like saying Fred Phelps is a minister.

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 04:14 PM
These bloggers do not "write for Fox"..

Which is why, in the past, our work has appeared on FoxSports.com?

Keep moving those goal posts.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 04:14 PM
We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Part of Fatlock's "credibility" is due to his premeditated controversy. The comparison to Ann Coulter I think is accurate. Yes, he's been on Jim Rome. Yes, he's been on Sports Reporters - although I think he wore out his welcome there, same as he's worn out his welcome at all the local sports radio stations.

Fatlock couldn't make it as a straight reporter. I'll take Chiefs info from Ken Babb or Adam Teisher, or even (and this is a big stretch, considering his difficult extraction of his nose from King Carl's rectum) from Blob Gretz before anything Fatlock writes.

The point is, the Chiefs are limiting access to their players, and Fatlock is throwing a hissy fit with this morning's column, because he has no new info, and that pisses him off.

Im with you. Whitlocks writing, to me is far to opinionated. Its more about stirring the pot than actual reporting. Still, he has national recognition.

DaKCMan AP
06-07-2009, 04:16 PM
Which is why, in the past, our work has appeared on FoxSports.com?

Keep moving those goal posts.

No matter where the goal posts are you still can't score.

DeezNutz
06-07-2009, 04:16 PM
Saying Ann Coulter is a political analyst is like saying Fred Phelps is a minister.

Same thing as a Keith Olbermann.

Every analyst (person in general) is biased. Some are simply more over the top than others, some to the point of becoming caricatures.

DeezNutz
06-07-2009, 04:17 PM
Im with you. Whitlocks writing, to me is far to opinionated. Its more about stirring the pot than actual reporting. Still, he has national recognition.

Far too opinionated?

He's a columnist. That's what he's paid to do. He's not a reporter.

Just Passin' By
06-07-2009, 04:18 PM
Saying Ann Coulter is a political analyst is like saying Fred Phelps is a minister.

Again, your dislike of the political "slightly right of center" doesn't mean it's without credibility, either individually or as a whole.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 04:19 PM
Almost agreed. But not quite. Someone who makes a livable primary income from writing about sports.

So lets say, someone works construction by day, he writes for a sports page at night. He isnt a sports writer?

wild1
06-07-2009, 04:19 PM
Saying Ann Coulter is a political analyst is like saying Fred Phelps is a minister.

A commentator and a journalist may be the same person, but they are not the same thing.

wild1
06-07-2009, 04:20 PM
So lets say, someone works construction by day, he writes for a sports page at night. He isnt a sports writer?

We're all writing on a sports website right now. I guess we're all sportswriters.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 04:22 PM
Far too opinionated?

He's a columnist. That's what he's paid to do. He's not a reporter.

OK, he is a sports columnist, not a sports reporter. I stand corrected.

The point is, because I dont like him, does not take away his credibility.

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 04:23 PM
We're all writing on a sports website right now. I guess we're all sportswriters.

Some of us are just n00bs with big mouths.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 04:25 PM
We're all writing on a sports website right now. I guess we're all sportswriters.

Im not sure if you are over simplifying this for your self or for me.

This is a message board, NOT a sports page or a magazine. Chatting on a message board does NOT make you a sports writer, OK?

wild1
06-07-2009, 04:35 PM
Im not sure if you are over simplifying this for your self or for me.

This is a message board, NOT a sports page or a magazine. Chatting on a message board does NOT make you a sports writer, OK?

neither does running a blog on scout.com

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 04:42 PM
neither does running a blog on scout.com

Who said it did?

Phobia
06-07-2009, 04:43 PM
So lets say, someone works construction by day, he writes for a sports page at night. He isnt a sports writer?

That sounds very familiar. I'm a hobbyist. If I considered myself a journalist or a sportswriter, I think that would be disrespectful to those who are legitimately giving a full-time effort to their trade.

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 04:52 PM
This is all highly important bullshit. I'm glad we're discussing it.

Deberg_1990
06-07-2009, 04:53 PM
This is all highly important bullshit. I'm glad we're discussing it.

This wesbite would only have about 2 threads and 10 posts per day if we only discussed important stuff.

chiefforlife
06-07-2009, 04:53 PM
That sounds very familiar. I'm a hobbyist. If I considered myself a journalist or a sportswriter, I think that would be disrespectful to those who are legitimately giving a full-time effort to their trade.

I think if you had your own website and wrote articles for that, you would be a hobbyist. However, if you wrote for a local paper, in the sports section, you would be considered a sports writer. Regardless if its how you feed your family.

I doubt any full time writer would take offense or feel disrespected by someone writing for a local sports page, calling himself a sports writer.

crazycoffey
06-07-2009, 05:03 PM
last few posts look like it's getting off topic, and I don't know if it was covered or not, but - to WPI (Wayoutoftouchwith Popularjournalism Inc.) and the far from insightful Mr. Getagriplock;

What, praytell, do you actually bring to the table for us fans in the offseason reporting (close up like in the past, or out of loop present)?

Please tell me it's more than just topics for fans to agree on / argue with (like here on the planet) or just a faustian of false hopes for the season.

I don't know maybe it's just me, but personally - if it's not video tape for me to see myself and form my own pre-season opinions, I think I'd rather the media just post roster/line-up changes (implies on it's own, who's performing better), Schedules, injuries/recovery progress (I know, I know - not Pioli's way), and Q&As (even though these are turning into a big circle jerk too) than have built up false hope from an overly aggressive marketing arm, uh... I mean media.

JASONSAUTO
06-07-2009, 06:12 PM
Correctly pointing out that, despite what you'd like to think, you are not a member of the media is hardly hatemongering.

Concession? You're not a member of the media. You're not a journalist. You're not a reporter. There's nothing disputable about that.

You're entitled to your opinion.

Uh, I do. The closer the media is to things, the better data they can obtain, the better articles they can write, the more they can inform us about.

i'll help here dakcman, in the last quote it sure looks to me like claythan doesnt even consider HIMSELF a journalist

Count Zarth
06-07-2009, 06:19 PM
i'll help here dakcman, in the last quote it sure looks to me like claythan doesnt even consider HIMSELF a journalist

HOLY SHIT!

whoman69
06-07-2009, 08:52 PM
Weíre going to put his theory about secrecy vs. talent to the test.

Itís my contention that you win professional football, basketball, baseball and hockey games primarily by securing more talent than your competitors. Pioli contends you do it by keeping more secrets than your competitors.


I don't think Pioli believes this at all. What he believes is that good talent can be brought down by the media. There's probably some proof to that. I don't believe its because they spread secrets. Most writers know enough not to print the coaches gameplans in their column, even if they could understand it in the first place. All these secrets that need to be protected will be out in the open by the 2nd game of the season, or even earlier. I think he's opened the media to even more speculation that could hurt the team more than he's trying to help it.

salame
06-07-2009, 11:02 PM
Translation: I don't have shit to write about and I am very HUNGRY.
fixed

DaneMcCloud
06-07-2009, 11:14 PM
We don't need free public relations. We need guys who can block, tackle, throw, catch and run. Better than the other guys, if possible.

The media has nothing to do with that. Why treat them as if they do?

I fail to see how Whitlock contributes to that goal. If the Chiefs start winning football games, the stands will be full again. I say, let the press start actually working for their stories instead of bottle feeding on the Chiefs PR department's hairy nipple of disinformation.

FAX

Adam Teicher is the poster boy for the Chiefs PR department. Not Whitlock and certainly not Ivan Carter.

It's called investigative journalism for a reason. And I think that if that's what it comes to in KC (while losing), the Chiefs will unfortunately lose many fans.

Dylan
06-08-2009, 01:12 AM
Jason Whitlock whose aggressive and sometimes unprofessional style has attracted a following -- however, his opinions -- he is not respected by a majority of peers.

One worrisome observation -- this incident took place in Oct. 1998 -- Well before the Belichick / Pioli days. Still, it's the Patriots or Maybe not...

This story was according to Sports Illustrated: -- I don't think the original story can be found online -- then again I'm not really sure. Here's a fast google:

Scribe benched for heckling fans

By Editorial Staff
Publication: Editor & Publisher
Date: Saturday, October 31 1998


A Kansas City Star sports columnist was suspended for two weeks for heckling hecklers — New England Patriots fans — at Massachusetts' Foxboro Stadium.
Jason Whitlock, who was covering a game between the Patriots and Kansas City Chiefs, "violated one of the cardinal rules of journalism — don't become part of the story," said Star assistant managing editor for sports Rick Vacek. After Patriots fans jeered Kansas City reporters in the press box, Vacek said Whitlock held up a signs saying "It's warm in here. Good looking women too" and "Bledsoe Gay? Pats Suck" referring to the New England quarterback.

Vacek said Whitlock was also required to end his weekly call-in radio show. Whitlock has apologized to the Patriots.

•(copyright: Editor & Publisher October 31, 1998) [Caption]

http://www.allbusiness.com/services/business-services-miscellaneous-business/4712410-1.html

Chiefnj2
06-08-2009, 07:15 AM
Jason Whitlock whose aggressive and sometimes unprofessional style has attracted a following -- however, his opinions -- he is not respected by a majority of peers.

One worrisome observation -- this incident took place in Oct. 1998 -- Well before the Belichick / Pioli days. Still, it's the Patriots or Maybe not...

This story was according to Sports Illustrated: -- I don't think the original story can be found online -- then again I'm not really sure. Here's a fast google:

Scribe benched for heckling fans

By Editorial Staff
Publication: Editor & Publisher
Date: Saturday, October 31 1998


A Kansas City Star sports columnist was suspended for two weeks for heckling hecklers ó New England Patriots fans ó at Massachusetts' Foxboro Stadium.
Jason Whitlock, who was covering a game between the Patriots and Kansas City Chiefs, "violated one of the cardinal rules of journalism ó don't become part of the story," said Star assistant managing editor for sports Rick Vacek. After Patriots fans jeered Kansas City reporters in the press box, Vacek said Whitlock held up a signs saying "It's warm in here. Good looking women too" and "Bledsoe Gay? Pats Suck" referring to the New England quarterback.

Vacek said Whitlock was also required to end his weekly call-in radio show. Whitlock has apologized to the Patriots.

ē(copyright: Editor & Publisher October 31, 1998) [Caption]

http://www.allbusiness.com/services/business-services-miscellaneous-business/4712410-1.html

Live in the past much? Whitlock is the best journalist in KC.

Dylan
06-08-2009, 10:57 AM
Live in the past much? Whitlock is the best journalist in KC.

When it comes to traditional nationwide sports journalism, Joe Posnanski is your man.

just saying...

Deberg_1990
06-08-2009, 10:59 AM
When it comes to traditional, play it safe, dont offend anyone and always be positive, Joe Posnanski is your man.

just saying...


FYP...

Chiefnj2
06-08-2009, 11:02 AM
When it comes to traditional nationwide sports journalism, Joe Posnanski is your man.

just saying... well, maybe a little FYI

Nothing is happening in Chiefs football. The press is being kept 100 yards away from the field. Whitlock is able to write an article that generates over 200 posts on a weekend. He's getting people to read his column and talk about it. He did his job. If I wanted an occasional sentimental piece, I'd hire Posnanski. If you want viewers on a daily basis you need Whitlock.