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View Full Version : Int'l Issues Obama diplomatic plan starting to work? Winning hearts and minds in the Middle East?


BigRedChief
06-09-2009, 10:19 AM
When's the last time you saw articles/headlines like these about Muslims and the Middle East?

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Pakistani villagers battle Taliban militants



<LI class=cnnhiliteheader>Story Highlights
Villagers form militia after Friday's suicide attack on mosque that opposed Taliban
Their militia has Taliban surrounded in one village, local official says
At least 14 Taliban militants killed since fighting began Saturday, official says
Locals say Pakistani military is helping the villagers; the military denies it
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/06/09/pakistan.anti.taliban/index.html

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Commentary: Iranians favor peace deal with U.S.



<LI class=cnnhiliteheader>Story Highlights
Ballen, Atallah: Most Iranians are not extremists; they favor peace with U.S.
They say poll shows overwhelming support for negotiations
Poll finds Iranian support for a deal regardless of whether Ahmadinejad is re-elected
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/08/ballen.iran/index.html

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<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Pro-West bloc retains control in Lebanon

<LI class=cnnhiliteheader>Story Highlights
Lebanon's pro-West bloc will retain control of government, beating Hezbollah
"March 14" coalition won 71 seats; Hezbollah alliance won remaining 57 seats
No reaction from Hezbollah, which is supported by both Syria and Iran
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/08/lebanon.vote/index.html




</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Mr. Kotter
06-09-2009, 10:23 AM
Way, way, way....too early to tell.

:rolleyes:

mlyonsd
06-09-2009, 10:27 AM
I'd chalk this up to CNN finally doing some reporting on the good things happening in the region.

You know, the kind of hard hitting journalism that escaped them during the Bush years.

BigRedChief
06-09-2009, 10:29 AM
Way, way, way....too early to tell.

:rolleyes:
of course its going to be years before we know. It's obvious that Obaama's speech influenced the Lebanon elections and hopefully it will the Iranian elections too. But who knows if it will work. We are dealing with extremists. But not all muslims are extremists and if they take things into their own hands like those Pakiatani's did....who knows?

I just thought it was way different from the past to see 3 articles like that on the front page of CNN.

Mr. Kotter
06-09-2009, 10:33 AM
of course its going to be years before we know. and who knows if it will work. We are dealing with extremists. But not all muslims are extremists and if they take things into their own hands like those Pakiatani's did....who knows?

I just thought it was way different from the past to see 3 articles like that on the front page of CNN.

Of course they have three articles like that on the front page of CNN. They have their heads burried up Obama's butt....further than some of the folks around here.

:D


FWIW, he's doing okay so far....but isn't nearly the magician or savior that so many in around here or in the mainstream media seem to want to portray. A little objectivity and more of a "wait and see" attitude would be healthy for all of us right now. That's all I'm saying.

I'd chalk this up to CNN finally doing some reporting on the good things happening in the region.

You know, the kind of hard hitting journalism that escaped them during the Bush years.

Don't you know that NOTHING good ever happened during the Bush years. NOTHING!

He is, afterall, Satan....you know.

;)

bsp4444
06-09-2009, 11:43 AM
Baby steps. I hope it works.

HonestChieffan
06-09-2009, 11:45 AM
Osama Bin Laden may turn himeself in any minute.

Did the Taliban give up yet?

Hows that kook with a nuke in NK getting on?

wild1
06-09-2009, 12:23 PM
None of these represent changes. Nor do they represent effects of any of his actions.

He's failed every foreign policy test so far. He caved to Iran, put his fingers in his ears as North Korea tested him with barrages of missles. He runs to every country in the world talking about how much he thinks America sucks. He failed to get the EU on board with his global socialist new deal. He doesn't get concessions from anyone because the whole world knows he's weak. He's a talker, not a doer.

jjjayb
06-09-2009, 12:25 PM
I'd chalk this up to CNN finally doing some reporting on the good things happening in the region.

You know, the kind of hard hitting journalism that escaped them during the Bush years.

Exactly what I was going to say.

wild1
06-09-2009, 12:25 PM
of course its going to be years before we know. It's obvious that Obaama's speech influenced the Lebanon elections

:rolleyes:

BigRedChief
06-09-2009, 12:27 PM
None of these represent changes. Nor do they represent effects of any of his actions.

He's failed every foreign policy test so far. He caved to Iran, put his fingers in his ears as North Korea tested him with barrages of missles. He runs to every country in the world talking about how much he thinks America sucks. He failed to get the EU on board with his global socialist new deal. He doesn't get concessions from anyone because the whole world knows he's weak. He's a talker, not a doer.
you are mistaken and hold an extremely biased opinion.

He has not succeded or failed at anything yet. It's too early to score.:p

wild1
06-09-2009, 12:34 PM
you are mistaken and hold an extremely biased opinion.

He has not succeded or failed at anything yet. It's too early to score.:p

I'm the one who's extremely biased LMAO

petegz28
06-09-2009, 12:44 PM
you are mistaken and hold an extremely biased opinion.

He has not succeded or failed at anything yet. It's too early to score.:p

You are the most biased person here. I think you make jAZ look moderate, even. He has failed. You just don't want to hear it.

KC Dan
06-09-2009, 12:52 PM
you are mistaken and hold an extremely biased opinion.

He has not succeded or failed at anything yet. It's too early to score.:p
Stimulus Transparancy - President Obama has vowed that citizens will be able to track "every dime" of the $787 billion stimulus bill --> FAIL

Read the article and research more if you'd like. Hell, actually look at the website and tell us if you can track "every dime". http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techpolicy/2009-05-06-stimulus_N.htm

Stimulus v. Unemployment rate - The same month, his economic advisors released a report (http://otrans.3cdn.net/45593e8ecbd339d074_l3m6bt1te.pdf) saying that, without the stimulus, unemployment would hit around 8.5 percent by April 2009, and 7.8 percent with it. --> FAIL -Unemployment rate hits 9.4% June 2009

Read this and a hundred other articles . http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/05/18/business/econwatch/entry5023220.shtml

BigRedChief
06-09-2009, 02:20 PM
Stimulus Transparancy - President Obama has vowed that citizens will be able to track "every dime" of the $787 billion stimulus bill --> FAIL

Read the article and research more if you'd like. Hell, actually look at the website and tell us if you can track "every dime". http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techpolicy/2009-05-06-stimulus_N.htm

Stimulus v. Unemployment rate - The same month, his economic advisors released a report (http://otrans.3cdn.net/45593e8ecbd339d074_l3m6bt1te.pdf) saying that, without the stimulus, unemployment would hit around 8.5 percent by April 2009, and 7.8 percent with it. --> FAIL -Unemployment rate hits 9.4% June 2009

Read this and a hundred other articles . http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/05/18/business/econwatch/entry5023220.shtml
I was talking about foreign policy. But the same thing applies to the stimulus. Too early for a verdict.

KC Dan
06-09-2009, 02:24 PM
I was talking about foreign policy. But the same thing applies to the stimulus. Too early for a verdict.
Unless you are one of those 9.4% -> FAIL

SBK
06-09-2009, 07:21 PM
I bet BRC is pretty dizzy these days.
Posted via Mobile Device

stevieray
06-09-2009, 07:24 PM
does this thread come with lube?

Adept Havelock
06-09-2009, 07:27 PM
A little objectivity and more of a "wait and see" attitude would be healthy for all of us right now. That's all I'm saying.



It'd be nice. Is it likely?

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chiefforlife
06-09-2009, 07:48 PM
He is definitely making SOME progress in the middle east, like him or not, you have to give him that. Of course, just NOT being Bush helps.

Mr. Kotter
06-09-2009, 09:54 PM
does this thread come with lube?

Heh. LMAO

SBK
06-09-2009, 10:27 PM
When's the last time you saw articles/headlines like these about Muslims and the Middle East?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Pakistani villagers battle Taliban militants




Story Highlights
Villagers form militia after Friday's suicide attack on mosque that opposed Taliban
Their militia has Taliban surrounded in one village, local official says
At least 14 Taliban militants killed since fighting began Saturday, official says
Locals say Pakistani military is helping the villagers; the military denies it

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/06/09/pakistan.anti.taliban/index.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Commentary: Iranians favor peace deal with U.S.




Story Highlights
Ballen, Atallah: Most Iranians are not extremists; they favor peace with U.S.
They say poll shows overwhelming support for negotiations
Poll finds Iranian support for a deal regardless of whether Ahmadinejad is re-elected

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/08/ballen.iran/index.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td>Pro-West bloc retains control in Lebanon


Story Highlights
Lebanon's pro-West bloc will retain control of government, beating Hezbollah
"March 14" coalition won 71 seats; Hezbollah alliance won remaining 57 seats
No reaction from Hezbollah, which is supported by both Syria and Iran

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/08/lebanon.vote/index.html




</td></tr></tbody></table>

You forgot one.

Bomb at luxury hotel in Pakistan kills at least 11

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090609/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan

Mr. Kotter
06-09-2009, 11:10 PM
You forgot one.

Bomb at luxury hotel in Pakistan kills at least 11

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090609/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan

Ooooppsssyyy-Pooooopppsy.

Gosh, it's probably STILL Bush's fault, you know? :shrug:

;)

Direckshun
06-09-2009, 11:14 PM
I'm thrilled to see excitement about our country brewing in the Middle East.

I think it's clear we have a long ways to go, but we could simply have not had a better first step. I challenge anybody to think of any first step that could have been superior to that speech in Cairo.

Mr. Kotter
06-09-2009, 11:27 PM
I'm thrilled to see excitement about our country brewing in the Middle East.

I think it's clear we have a long ways to go, but we could simply have not had a better first step. I challenge anybody to think of any first step that could have been superior to that speech in Cairo.

:spock:

Duh?!

And we know how this, ultimately, turned-out....don't we? :shrug:

Think, man....think. :rolleyes:

SBK
06-09-2009, 11:36 PM
I'm thrilled to see excitement about our country brewing in the Middle East.

I think it's clear we have a long ways to go, but we could simply have not had a better first step. I challenge anybody to think of any first step that could have been superior to that speech in Cairo.

Speech in Cairo < Women voting in Afghanistan

Mr. Kotter
06-09-2009, 11:47 PM
Speech in Cairo < Women voting in Afghanistan

HEY! That don't count....cause no one in the media cared when that happened. :rolleyes:

;)

FTR....Direcksun has been powned twice in a bit more than 30 minutes. LMAO

jAZ
06-10-2009, 12:52 AM
Way, way, way....too early to tell.

:rolleyes:

If the Moderates win on Friday in Iran, it will be a HUGE victory for Obama's approach. A loss by the Moderates is expected, but even still will be a disappointment for Obama.

So I guess the point is, "way, way, way" means 3 days.

Mr. Kotter
06-10-2009, 01:17 AM
If the Moderates win on Friday in Iran, it will be a HUGE victory for Obama's approach. A loss by the Moderates is expected, but even still will be a disappointment for Obama.

So I guess the point is, "way, way, way" means 3 days.

Mods have been on the "upswing" in Iran....for quite some time. Long before Obama. Duh.

You are so short-sighted....and narrow-minded, it would be almost humorous.

If you weren't an "adult" that is; that makes it alternately....pathetic and sad, or downright humorous. :rolleyes:

patteeu
06-10-2009, 07:08 AM
None of these represent changes. Nor do they represent effects of any of his actions.

He's failed every foreign policy test so far. He caved to Iran, put his fingers in his ears as North Korea tested him with barrages of missles. He runs to every country in the world talking about how much he thinks America sucks. He failed to get the EU on board with his global socialist new deal. He doesn't get concessions from anyone because the whole world knows he's weak. He's a talker, not a doer.

I subscribe to this view with a caveat. He's done a decent job in several foreign policy areas, but in all of those it's because he's elected to carry on Bush policies. His innovations haven't done much that I can see other than alienating our closest ally in the middle east.

patteeu
06-10-2009, 07:11 AM
He is definitely making SOME progress in the middle east, like him or not, you have to give him that. Of course, just NOT being Bush helps.

What do you call "progress"? Increased violence and more foreign fighters returning to Iraq? Worse relations with Israel? Iran even closer to a nuke?

patteeu
06-10-2009, 07:13 AM
I'm thrilled to see excitement about our country brewing in the Middle East.

I think it's clear we have a long ways to go, but we could simply have not had a better first step. I challenge anybody to think of any first step that could have been superior to that speech in Cairo.

Deposing Saddam and facilitating the development of a population-respecting, freedom-based government in Iraq was a better first step.

Amnorix
06-10-2009, 07:14 AM
:LOL: at this entire thread.

When do you guys start clamoring for impeachment?

patteeu
06-10-2009, 07:16 AM
If the Moderates win on Friday in Iran, it will be a HUGE victory for Obama's approach. A loss by the Moderates is expected, but even still will be a disappointment for Obama.

So I guess the point is, "way, way, way" means 3 days.

Why do you think Obama's approach (by which I assume you mean "vapid talk designed to make the speaker appear to be positioned between two extremes and self-loathing designed to appeal to America haters") will have any effect on the Iranian election?

BigRedChief
06-10-2009, 09:11 AM
Why do you think Obama's approach (by which I assume you mean "vapid talk designed to make the speaker appear to be positioned between two extremes and self-loathing designed to appeal to America haters") will have any effect on the Iranian election?
Based on my time in the middle east and having a close "Iranian" friend for 16 years that stays in close touch with his family back home. I come at this from a different prespective.

Believe it or not, historically the Iranians are the closest culturally to us of all the middle eastern nations. Persians and the Farsi people have always been more like what is now "Western" society. They had a rebirth of religious fevor and now its cooling. The problem is that those religious leaders are still in power and don't want to give it up.

The Iranians love sattelite TV, Western TV shows (not just Baywatch), rollercoasters and amusement parks, pursuit of scientific knowledge etc.

If the mullahs can be pushed aside and the average Iranian can forgive us for forcing a dictator on them that tortured and killed them we might find a strong ally in Iran.

stevieray
06-10-2009, 09:14 AM
:LOL: at this entire thread.

When do you guys start clamoring for impeachment?

LOL at you..when do you start clamoring about leaving again?

BigRedChief
06-10-2009, 09:17 AM
I'm thrilled to see excitement about our country brewing in the Middle East.

I think it's clear we have a long ways to go, but we could simply have not had a better first step. I challenge anybody to think of any first step that could have been superior to that speech in Cairo.
The Iranian "hard liners" were up by 30% in the polls two weeks ago. CNN said last night that their poll had the "moderates" in a virtual dead heat now.

Hamas and Hezzbolah and their allies are complaining about Obama trying to dictate policy and influence elections in Lebanon.

Looks like a pretty good first step to me.

stevieray
06-10-2009, 09:21 AM
the hypocrisy is astounding..we've gone to who gives a shit about the ME into what a great first step...

I really feel for you guys who are so emotinally invested , you're bound to be disappointed.

BigRedChief
06-10-2009, 09:24 AM
the hypocrisy is astounding..we've gone to who gives a shit about the ME into what a great first step...

I really feel for you guys who are so emotinally invested , you're bound to be disappointed.
I'm on record as saying that there will never be a lasting peace beteen Israel and the Arabs. Because the extremists on both sides won't allow that to happen.

patteeu
06-10-2009, 02:22 PM
Based on my time in the middle east and having a close "Iranian" friend for 16 years that stays in close touch with his family back home. I come at this from a different prespective.

Believe it or not, historically the Iranians are the closest culturally to us of all the middle eastern nations. Persians and the Farsi people have always been more like what is now "Western" society. They had a rebirth of religious fevor and now its cooling. The problem is that those religious leaders are still in power and don't want to give it up.

The Iranians love sattelite TV, Western TV shows (not just Baywatch), rollercoasters and amusement parks, pursuit of scientific knowledge etc.

If the mullahs can be pushed aside and the average Iranian can forgive us for forcing a dictator on them that tortured and killed them we might find a strong ally in Iran.

I don't have any problem with what you say here except that it has nothing to do with Obama. It was all just as true during the Bush years.

Chief Faithful
06-10-2009, 02:29 PM
I'm on record as saying that there will never be a lasting peace beteen Israel and the Arabs. Because the extremists on both sides won't allow that to happen.

The word never doesn't agree with me, but it will not happen anytime soon because you are correct the extremists on both sides are profiting from the current environment. They are even provoking further hatred trying to use it to colesce political support.

Pitt Gorilla
06-10-2009, 02:30 PM
LOL at you..when do you start clamoring about leaving again?I thought you already left?

Chief Henry
06-10-2009, 02:39 PM
Obama's had one foreign policy victory...he got those 16 year old somalian boat
hi-jackers snuffed out, thanks to some accurate sharp shooters in our US Military.

Chocolate Hog
06-10-2009, 02:41 PM
lol for fucks sake. Yea the Lebanese didn't know who they'd vote for until Obama gave his speech. Come on folks the whole middle east isn't ran by extremist they usually do elect moderates and the moderates do something the U.S doesn't like then we overthrow that government and replace them with radicals. Do your own studying don't listen to shitty mainstream media.

BigRedChief
06-10-2009, 04:20 PM
I don't have any problem with what you say here except that it has nothing to do with Obama. It was all just as true during the Bush years.
agreed. Same problem exsists. Bush didn't solve it in 8 years he had to get it done, as a matter of fact he made it worse. But the intrinsic issues that make Iran a good possible pardner in the Middle East were there before bush and will be there after Obama.

BigRedChief
06-10-2009, 04:23 PM
The word never doesn't agree with me, but it will not happen anytime soon because you are correct the extremists on both sides are profiting from the current environment. They are even provoking further hatred trying to use it to colesce political support.
I lived up close and personal with both sides for a year and a half. I know how deep the divide is. I hope I'm wrong because its just a matter of time before the bloodshed really starts not just from a couple of missles or days of an Israeli offenseive but a full scale war. That will not be good for anyone, on any side.

wild1
06-10-2009, 04:23 PM
agreed. Same problem exsists. Bush didn't solve it in 8 years he had to get it done, as a matter of fact he made it worse. But the intrinsic issues have been there that make Iran a good possible pardner in the Middle East.

LMAO

Poor Mahmoud! He's so misunderstood. People took those statements about wiping Israel off the map seriously. He'll be a great partner. Maybe we can even help him.

BigRedChief
06-10-2009, 04:25 PM
LMAO

Poor Mahmoud! He's so misunderstood. People took those statements about wiping Israel off the map seriously. He'll be a great partner. Maybe we can even help him.
dude, do you even read before you start being sarcastic and lash out?

Nothing happens until the hard liners and mullahs are out. If they remain in power it could come to war.

wild1
06-10-2009, 04:29 PM
dude, do you even read before you start being sarcastic and lash out?

Nothing happens until the hard liners and mullahs are out. If they remain in power it could come to war.

Well "pardner", we've been waiting what, 30 years for this supposed moderate majority to show itself, and it never does.

BigRedChief
06-10-2009, 04:31 PM
Well "pardner", we've been waiting what, 30 years for this supposed moderate majority to show itself, and it never does.
It's not supposed. do your research.

mlyonsd
06-10-2009, 09:34 PM
I stopped reading at the first example. Pakistan civilians standing up for themselves has nothing to do with Obama.