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DeezNutz
06-09-2009, 10:23 PM
Figured this would get lost in the fray of the larger thread. Feel free to move it as you think necessary, mods.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/story/1243667.html

Forget about DJ Jazzy Jeff and loud music and the latest controversy at the Power & Light District. At most, they are symptoms of a larger problem at the P&L. More than likely, they’re a prime example of just how out of control celebrity egos can get.

But don’t get distracted by the opportunistic whining of a spoiled out-of-towner.

The problem at P&L is still the racist and inconsistent enforcement of a dress-code policy intended primarily to limit the number of black and brown men that frequent the entertainment district financed by all of our tax dollars.

Until the Cordish Co., city officials and P&L nightclub owners figure out a fair and colorblind way to deter troublemakers from turning the high-priced downtown experiment into Westport Central, Power & Light will remain vulnerable to the types of misguided and exaggerated claims of racism we witnessed with Jazzy Jeff.

I just happened to be in the district Saturday night when Jazzy Jeff cut his performance short and set off another P&L public-relations crisis.

I don’t believe Jazzy Jeff’s story about P&L officials demanding that he stop playing hip-hop music, and here’s why:

Around 10 p.m. I was standing on the balcony outside of Lucky Strikes watching hundreds of young people dance to the hip-hop music being played by the DJ who performed before Jazzy Jeff took the stage. Also, it’s impossible for me to believe P&L executives would have hired Jeff without realizing he would play hip-hop music.

It would be the equivalent of barbecue baron Ollie Gates inviting me to his home and kicking me out when I asked for a second helping of ribs and coleslaw.

However, I don’t blame disappointed P&L partygoers for believing Jazzy Jeff’s complaints on Twitter and subsequent interviews.

P&L’s dress-code policy destroys its credibility when it comes to race.

I was a water-drinking designated driver at the P&L from 9 p.m. until 1:30 a.m. Saturday night/Sunday morning. For the most part, two friends and I had a great time. The bartenders at Lucky Strikes were friendly and funny. The staff at Mosaic defused a juvenile confrontation between one of my friends and a drunken patron in an extremely professional manner.

We had one problem all night: The security staff at Shark Bar initially denied us entrance on the basis that I was inappropriately dressed.

It was a ridiculous contention. I had on custom-made, black linen, crepe-weave shorts with a matching Tommy Bahama-style button-up shirt, black dress sandals and a black Kango hat. I’ve worn the exact outfit or one similar to the best restaurants and clubs in Vegas, New York, Los Angeles, Miami and Kansas City.

I never spoke one word to the bouncer or club manager who stopped us at the door. It’s not in my nature to demand that a business accept my money. But my friends were upset and insulted.

I was out with Russ Stewart, a manager of a popular Kansas City nightclub, and Troy McSwain, a Los Angeles-based custom-wardrobe designer.

Like me, Russ and Troy are black and in their 40s.

Russ grew up in Kansas City, is a homeowner in my Johnson County neighborhood and, because of his job, he is friends with most of the nightclub managers and workers in Kansas City. Through his connections, we were on the invited guests list at Mosaic and Shark Bar.

Troy is a world traveler. He designs clothes for some of America’s most famous athletes and entertainers. He was educated at the Naval Academy. He, his wife and two kids own a home in a California suburb.

My point is we represent black, professional middle-aged America. We’re not looking for trouble. We might pathetically try to recapture our college days and flirt with a 25-year-old nursing student. But that’s as wild and crazy as we get.

We shouldn’t be on the P&L’s 10 most wanted list.

Russ and Troy politely bickered with the Shark Bar security and manager for about 10 minutes. They were told my shorts were “sagging” below my knees. Troy explained that he made the shorts to hang below the knees and the shorts were no longer than the Old Navy shorts worn by the club’s bouncer. Then they were told that my shirt being untucked was a problem and that it was against club policy for my 23-inch white gold chain to hang outside my shirt.

Eventually the manager relented and allowed us to go in if I would tuck my necklace inside my shirt.

Once inside, we discovered all three of us were inappropriately dressed. We looked far too professional and classy. Seriously. That is not arrogance. The young, mostly white people inside the club dressed the way we did when we were young and financially strapped.

We left, feeling insulted and unwanted. Given our age, life experience and multiple options, we didn’t leave angry. We left knowing exactly why many young black and brown men and women have contempt for the clubs at Power & Light.

The city hypes this great, hip place to party and then hangs an invisible sign that says “Blacks and Browns are reluctantly welcomed.”

Monday afternoon I called Strange Music CEO Travis O’Guin, who runs the No. 1 independent hip-hop music label in the country out of Lee’s Summit, to gossip about the Jazzy Jeff controversy and my experience at Shark Bar. O’Guin’s rapper Tech N9ne wrote a song, “Let Me In,” about his problems at P&L.

“The problem is there were too many of ya’ll at once,” said O’Guin, who is a white conservative Republican. “A brother is cool as long as he’s by himself. But once there’s three or more blacks or Mexicans going at once, then there’s a problem. That’s when you’ll get stopped. I’ve seen it happen with my artists.”

Power & Light president John Stephens disagreed with O’Guin.

“There’s no truth to that at all,” Stephens told me Monday. “I’m going to personally call the manager at Shark Bar and find out what happened to you and your group Saturday night.”

Stephens promised to call me with an explanation.

I never heard back from him, either Monday or Tuesday. No worries. I know what happened. And I know why we eventually got let in. The manager figured out or Russ told him that I have a column in The Kansas City Star. While they were bickering about the appropriateness of my $500 outfit, I stood at the door shaking hands, chitchatting and posing for pictures with the other patrons waiting to enter.

It just isn’t fair. The overwhelming majority of Kansas Citians, especially young Kansas Citians, don’t have a similar platform to air their complaints.

I understand and agree with the P&L District’s desire to prevent the area from being overrun by the loiterers who damaged the perception of Westport. I used to work concert security when I was in college and I have an affinity for rap music, so I also comprehend the difficulty of playing hip-hop music and avoiding the gangsta, parking-lot-pimping crowd.

And finally, I love and socialize with all races and economic classes of people. I’m highly in tune with the challenges social diversity presents.

The well-intentioned people running P&L have a difficult task in that regard. They’re failing.

Until they figure out how to treat everyone fairly, I’ll spend my money where it, my custom-made short sets and black skin are welcomed.

blaise
06-09-2009, 10:34 PM
Okay, I know it's off topic but- Custom made shorts? How about a custom made salad once in a while so your fat ass can fit into some regular old shorts?

Count Zarth
06-09-2009, 10:36 PM
This does not belong on the fucking sports page.

BWillie
06-09-2009, 10:38 PM
You have to absolutely dress like a retard not to get into PNL. Honestly. They have more of a lax dress code than America's Pub.

Mecca
06-09-2009, 10:38 PM
You have to absolutely dress like a retard not to get into PNL. Honestly. They have more of a lax dress code than America's Pub.

I think his point was, he was dressed nicely and hassled while white guys who were dressed like retards were allowed in.

Count Zarth
06-09-2009, 10:39 PM
it was against club policy for my 23-inch white gold chain to hang outside my shirt.

Douchebag status: CONFIRMED!

BWillie
06-09-2009, 10:39 PM
I think his point was, he was dressed nicely and hassled while white guys who were dressed like retards were allowed in.

Yeah, I'm sure. How come my black friend never gets turned away and he wears like Ohio State shirts and backward Ohio State hats? It's because he's with white guys right?

Mecca
06-09-2009, 10:41 PM
Yeah, I'm sure. How come my black friend never gets turned away and he wears like Ohio State shirts and backward Ohio State hats? It's because he's with white guys right?

That's probably what he'd say, I'm not black nor do I frequently hang out down there so I can't make any sort of statement.

Count Zarth
06-09-2009, 10:42 PM
This really fucking pisses me off!!! Is this appearing tomorrow in the Kansas City Star SPORTS section? What a waste of column inches! I can't imagine that even half of KC-area sports fans want to read this garbage. No one bloody cares about Whitlock's racial tirades half the time, even when they're related to sports, and I would wager almost NO ONE that doesn't go to those shitty, overpriced clubs cares about his racial tirades when they're NOT related to sports.

GARBAGE.

Bugeater
06-09-2009, 10:45 PM
Funny how no one that is offended by this seems to have any suggestions as to how to solve the problem.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 10:46 PM
This really ****ing pisses me off!!! Is this appearing tomorrow in the Kansas City Star SPORTS section? What a waste of column inches! I can't imagine that even half of KC-area sports fans want to read this garbage. No one bloody cares about Whitlock's racial tirades half the time, even when they're related to sports, and I would wager almost NO ONE that doesn't go to those shitty, overpriced clubs cares about his racial tirades when they're NOT related to sports.

GARBAGE.

You're wrong. A lot of his writing about race relations has gotten national attention. You don't have to like it but saying "no one cares" is disingenuousness. This whole thing is still buzzing around KC.

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 10:47 PM
Okay, I know it's off topic but- Custom made shorts? How about a custom made salad once in a while so your fat ass can fit into some regular old shorts?

He was with a Los Angeles-based clothing designer.

In California, dress code isn't an issue. Shorts are often the norm. Slacks are not. I've been involved in huge money entertainment deals in nothing more than a designer t-shirt, shorts and flip-flops. Jason mentions that he's had no problems with that same exact garb in New York, Vegas or Los Angeles.

I have absolutely no idea of what's happening in the P&L district but I do know that other cities have different dress codes.

Also, chastising his weight does nothing to address or solve the problem.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 10:48 PM
Funny how no one that is offended by this seems to have any suggestions as to how to solve the problem.

Not true, there are a lot of people trying to work with P+L to make this right. For example a community activist named Alonzo Washington who does a lot of good work in this city. He has engaged and tried to work with Cordish on behalf of the community to come to a better compromise in regards to the dress code.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 10:50 PM
Yeah, I'm sure. How come my black friend never gets turned away and he wears like Ohio State shirts and backward Ohio State hats? It's because he's with white guys right?

Your contrarian views seem to be a little bit too convenient. Like seeing a bunch of people get shot up in the Westport thread and now this?

I *guess* we will have to take your word for it.

58kcfan89
06-09-2009, 10:50 PM
Came in to say that this shouldn't be published in the sports section, saw that someone beat me to it, I leave satisfied. Carry on.

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 10:52 PM
Not true, there are a lot of people trying to work with P+L to make this right. For example a community activist named Alonzo Washington who does a lot of good work in this city. He has engaged and tried to work with Cordish on behalf of the community to come to a better compromise in regards to the dress code.

Did you move from Springfield to KC?

Bugeater
06-09-2009, 10:52 PM
Not true, there are a lot of people trying to work with P+L to make this right. For example a community activist named Alonzo Washington who does a lot of good work in this city. He has engaged and tried to work with Cordish on behalf of the community to come to a better compromise in regards to the dress code.
That's cool, I was just basing that on what I read here, which is nothing but a bunch of finger pointing and poop-throwing. Hopefully they come up with a compromise that is acceptable to everyone.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 10:53 PM
Did you move from Springfield to KC?

Yea its been 2 1\2 to 3 years. I really enjoyed Springfield for that time in my life. I absolutely love Kansas City right now.

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 10:54 PM
Yea its been 2 1\2 to 3 years. I really enjoyed Springfield for that time in my life. I absolutely love Kansas City right now.

Wow, am I out of the loop or what?

Congrats!?

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 10:56 PM
Wow, am I out of the loop or what?

Congrats!?

Ha, its hard to keep tabs with people on here. You see bits and pieces but thank you. It is a fun ride. Doing photography (http://zcphotography.com) and working hard on a social media consulting start up (http://ideasandangles.com).

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 10:57 PM
Ha, its hard to keep tabs with people on here. You see bits and pieces but thank you. It is a fun ride. Doing photography (http://zcphotography.com) and working hard on a social media consulting start up (http://ideasandangles.com).

Best wishes and I apologize for not knowing!

Pioli Zombie
06-09-2009, 10:57 PM
This really fucking pisses me off!!! Is this appearing tomorrow in the Kansas City Star SPORTS section? What a waste of column inches! I can't imagine that even half of KC-area sports fans want to read this garbage. No one bloody cares about Whitlock's racial tirades half the time, even when they're related to sports, and I would wager almost NO ONE that doesn't go to those shitty, overpriced clubs cares about his racial tirades when they're NOT related to sports.

GARBAGE.

Hardly was a tirade. He sounded very calm and reasonable.

YOU sounded like you were on a tirade.
Posted via Mobile Device

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 10:58 PM
Hardly was a tirade. He sounded very calm and reasonable.

YOU sounded like you were on a tirade.
Posted via Mobile Device

Claythan hasn't been laid in while

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 10:59 PM
Best wishes and I apologize for not knowing!

Yea, I was actually going to challenge you to a duel over the whole thing it has just been a busy week. :thumb:

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/duel-7.jpg

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:00 PM
Yea, I was actually going to challenge you to a duel over the whole thing it has just been a busy week. :thumb:

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/duel-7.jpg


I've been sooooooo busy for the previous 3 weeks that I didn't log in.

TinyE told me about the "duel" thing on the phone this past weekend but I had no idea what he was talking about.

Hook a brotha up!

the Talking Can
06-09-2009, 11:01 PM
This really ****ing pisses me off!!! Is this appearing tomorrow in the Kansas City Star SPORTS section? What a waste of column inches! I can't imagine that even half of KC-area sports fans want to read this garbage. No one bloody cares about Whitlock's racial tirades half the time, even when they're related to sports, and I would wager almost NO ONE that doesn't go to those shitty, overpriced clubs cares about his racial tirades when they're NOT related to sports.

GARBAGE.

no one cares what a wannabe thinks...as if you know anything about how newspapers operate...

this article is interesting and relevant, and sports and entertainment are inextricably joined....you're just way too fucking stupid to know that...

big nasty kcnut
06-09-2009, 11:03 PM
I don't think it's a race as in they trying to control dress as in they rather have people not look like gangbangers. To some degrees i see thier point. But you got to let some thing slide.
Posted via Mobile Device

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:06 PM
I don't think it's a race as in they trying to control dress as in they rather have people not look like gangbangers. To some degrees i see thier point. But you got to let some thing slide.
Posted via Mobile Device

It hardly sounds like Whitlock and his pals were dressed as gang-bangers.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 11:07 PM
I've been sooooooo busy for the previous 3 weeks that I didn't log in.

TinyE told me about the "duel" thing on the phone this past weekend but I had no idea what he was talking about.

Hook a brotha up!

Didn't know you guys were that close. Thats pretty cool.

Just Passin' By
06-09-2009, 11:10 PM
Dress code is dress code. The question would seem to be whether or not it's selectively enforced with regards to the patrons, and what the bouncer is wearing is besides the point.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 11:11 PM
what the bouncer is wearing is besides the point.

Yea?

wild1
06-09-2009, 11:11 PM
To me, the chain thing seems silly. It also seems silly to get bent out of shape about - just tuck it in, right? But correct me if I am wrong, but you aren't allowed to wear sandals, are you?

No matter what, Cordish has to find a way to enforce this fairly and uniformly. I think standards of dress are appropriate and prudent, but they're turning it into a joke.

dtrain
06-09-2009, 11:12 PM
Unless you are a minority and experienced this sort of thing you just don't understand. I experienced the same kind of thing in college and we raised holly hell at the door. When they realized we weren't going away they let us in. It was funny with all the hell we were raising they didn't once threaten to call the police.

Just Passin' By
06-09-2009, 11:13 PM
Yea?

Yes. Hired help often have a different dress code than do the customers. It's usually more strict in such situations, but not always.

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:13 PM
Unless you are a minority and experienced this sort of thing you just don't understand. I experienced the same kind of thing in college and we raised holly hell at the door. When they realized we weren't going away they let us in. It was funny with all the hell we were raising they didn't once threaten to call the police.

Holly hell is the worst kind of hell

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 11:14 PM
To me, the chain thing seems silly. It also seems silly to get bent out of shape about - just tuck it in, right? But correct me if I am wrong, but you aren't allowed to wear sandals, are you?

No matter what, Cordish has to find a way to enforce this fairly and uniformly. I think standards of dress are appropriate and prudent, but they're turning it into a joke.

I imagine you can wear sandals.

Sandals are worn heavily by their dream customer base. Frat guys.

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:14 PM
To me, the chain thing seems silly.

Are you the person setting the standards?

If so, I can see why it's an issue.

If not...

blaise
06-09-2009, 11:14 PM
He was with a Los Angeles-based clothing designer.

In California, dress code isn't an issue. Shorts are often the norm. Slacks are not. I've been involved in huge money entertainment deals in nothing more than a designer t-shirt, shorts and flip-flops. Jason mentions that he's had no problems with that same exact garb in New York, Vegas or Los Angeles.

I have absolutely no idea of what's happening in the P&L district but I do know that other cities have different dress codes.

Also, chastising his weight does nothing to address or solve the problem.

Thanks all star. I said it was off topic, in case you didn't notice I wasn't trying to solve the nation's race problem with my post. Go ahead a solve all the world's race problems then in very somber fashion, I just wasn't aware we weren't allowed to make jokes.
I sincerely apologize for my wildly inappropriate joke. I'm sure it set race relations back at least 100 years.

dtrain
06-09-2009, 11:14 PM
Holly hell is the worst kind of hell

Damn skippy! They didn't want us to take it to hell hell!

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:15 PM
I imagine you can wear sandals.

Sandals are worn heavily by their dream customer base. Frat guys.

Hey now.

I only wear "real shoes" when required.

Sandals and flip flops are a way of life.

For men and women.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 11:15 PM
Thanks all star. I said it was off topic, in case you didn't notice I wasn't trying to solve the nation's race problem with my post. Go ahead a solve all the world's race problems then in very somber fashion, I just wasn't aware we weren't allowed to make jokes.
I sincerely apologize for my wildly inappropriate joke. I'm sure it set race relations back at least 100 years.

People seem to be quite angry this evening out of the blue. You should go hang out with RNR and help eachother cheer up. I provided him with some relaxing music that might help you out as well.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=208814

wild1
06-09-2009, 11:16 PM
Are you the person setting the standards?

If so, I can see why it's an issue.

If not...

No, sir, I am not the one. I'm sorry to have created the impression that I personally set the dress standards.

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:16 PM
Thanks all star. I said it was off topic, in case you didn't notice I wasn't trying to solve the nation's race problem with my post. Go ahead a solve all the world's race problems then in very somber fashion, I just wasn't aware we weren't allowed to make jokes.
I sincerely apologize for my wildly inappropriate joke. I'm sure it set race relations back at least 100 years.

Inappropriate insults aside, your post didn't come across as humorous, funny or sarcastic.

Furthermore, there was a lack of emoticon (smilies) that would further indicated that your post was in "jest".

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 11:17 PM
Hey now.

I only wear "real shoes" when required.

Sandals and flip flops are a way of life.

For men and women.

Ha! Not as much a statement that wearing sandals makes you a frat guy but the frat guy population is married to them completely. Frat flops unite.

Sandals are too ingrained in fashion for both sexes, I imagine they are cool at PL, I think....I have worn some there.

Bugeater
06-09-2009, 11:17 PM
Unless you are a minority and experienced this sort of thing you just don't understand. I experienced the same kind of thing in college and we raised holly hell at the door. When they realized we weren't going away they let us in. It was funny with all the hell we were raising they didn't once threaten to call the police.
Here we go again with "you just don't understand". Christ, don't dress like a gangbanger, and you'll be fine. I fail to see what is so hard to understand about that.

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:17 PM
No, sir, I am not the one. I'm sorry to have created the impression that I personally set the dress standards.

Thank you for clearing that up.

LMAO

blaise
06-09-2009, 11:18 PM
People seem to be quite angry this evening out of the blue. You should go hang out with RNR and help eachother cheer up. I provided him with some relaxing music that might help you out as well.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=208814

Oh, sorry I took at shot at your super BFF.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 11:19 PM
Oh, sorry I took at shot at your super BFF.

Did you?

DA_T_84
06-09-2009, 11:19 PM
GUYS-

I was at Mosaic, Saturday Night, with some athletes. I am not going into detail on that part.

I stood next to Whitlock for about ten minutes, staring at him, and laughing. The dude stood out like a sore, fat thumb. He was leaning against the main bar, taking up three times the space of a normal person, preventing people from getting drinks. His friend was doing the same. I know the person who got into the confrontation with his friend, and the reason was because he was blocking the bar like douche who has no presence or knowledge of bar ettiquette.

And the situation was diffused because the guy is friends with the staff, lol.

I almost took a picture for you all, but thought it inappropriate to let my night revolve around him. I almost started a thread stating these facts, but thought better not to. Then his ass writes an article talking about his clothing.

He looked like a baffoon. His necklace looked like he went to a dollar store. This is the same guy who showed up to KU's press conference when Roy announced his departure wearing bright red wal-mart sweat pants, a bright red wal-mart turtleneck, and a goofy ass kangol Samuel L. Jackson hat. He wants to get into a discussion about style? The likes of ESPN's finest were at that conference and he was dressed like an asshole, while everyone else was super professional.

It all boils down to him being a d-bag that has no place to write an article about what he wrote about.

He is like the kid at the lunch table in jr. high that makes up stories out of nothing and everyone is like, "Oh, jesus, here we go again. Make sure he doesn't find out about the party on Friday after the game." And then he finds out about the party on Friday after the game. And everyone is like, "Oh, jesus, nobody tell him that I have to go home later, he will want a ride." And then he finds out you have to go home later, and he wants a ride.

Can you tell i dislike him much?

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:19 PM
Ha! Not as much a statement that wearing sandals makes you a frat guy but the frat guy population is married to them completely. Frat flops unite.

Sandals are too ingrained in fashion for both sexes, I imagine they are cool at PL, I think....I have worn some there.

I am so far removed from fraternity and sorority life that I would have never caught that joke.

One of my niece's is preparing to enter college. I'll probably have a better idea next year.

After I puke.

blaise
06-09-2009, 11:20 PM
Inappropriate insults aside, your post didn't come across as humorous, funny or sarcastic.

Furthermore, there was a lack of emoticon (smilies) that would further indicated that your post was in "jest".

Yes, I can see how you would think I literally meant he should go somewhere and order a custom made salad. And after all, custom made shorts are commonplace these days, so why would anyone ridicule a fat man needing custom made shorts?

wild1
06-09-2009, 11:20 PM
I imagine you can wear sandals.

Sandals are worn heavily by their dream customer base. Frat guys.

I thought I had heard sandals were not allowed. Don't know if that is true.

My guess is that their target customer is a young upper/middle professional with a reasonable amount of disposable income.

"Frat guys" from where? UMKC?

blaise
06-09-2009, 11:21 PM
Did you?

Apparently so.

Spott
06-09-2009, 11:21 PM
I imagine you can wear sandals.


What about flip flops?

Bugeater
06-09-2009, 11:23 PM
What about flip flops?
What about Crocs?

(waits for angry response from unlurking)

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:23 PM
Yes, I can see how you would think I literally meant he should go somewhere and order a custom made salad. And after all, custom made shorts are commonplace these days, so why would anyone ridicule a fat man needing custom made shorts?

I live in a different city than you, where nearly everything is custom made.

I apologize for the misunderstanding.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 11:23 PM
I thought I had heard sandals were not allowed. Don't know if that is true.

My guess is that their target customer is a young upper/middle professional with a reasonable amount of disposable income.

"Frat guys" from where? UMKC?
Summers\Christmas from everywhere coming home from KC.

I am referring amazingly enough to a crowd that I see as some of the main targets as the "fresh out of college" crowd. Who still socialize in a manner much like they did in college they are just relocated (maybe)

I know this all sounds stupid, I am just not far removed from it. I have spent a lot of time up there as a photographer.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 11:24 PM
Apparently so.

Yea?

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:25 PM
I thought I had heard sandals were not allowed. Don't know if that is true.

My guess is that their target customer is a young upper/middle professional with a reasonable amount of disposable income.

"Frat guys" from where? UMKC?

I have a "reasonable amount" of disposable income.

I have four different pairs of flip flops and sandals and one pair of "normal" shoes.

I guess I won't be visiting the P&L district unless I bring my "normal" shoes.

Which happen to be very uncomfortable due to negligent use.

blaise
06-09-2009, 11:25 PM
I live in a different city than you, where nearly everything is custom made.

I apologize for the misunderstanding.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that Jason's custom made shorts are more a product of high caloric intake than high fashion.

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:27 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that Jason's custom made shorts are more a product of high caloric intake than high fashion.

Hmmm.

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion, considering the description of his guest.

Spott
06-09-2009, 11:28 PM
What about Crocs?

(waits for angry response from unlurking)


My son started wearing those things about 6 or 7 years ago but outgrew them by the time he turned 12. I've never tried them but I wear flip flops all the time.

blaise
06-09-2009, 11:31 PM
http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/resources/2006/09/whitlockdown.jpg

I would also suggest that to give Jason crepe-weave shorts is a bad idea. He might eat them in a state of confusion.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 11:32 PM
http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/resources/2006/09/whitlockdown.jpg

I would also suggest that to give Jason crepe-weave shorts is a bad idea. He might eat them in a state of confusion.

I understand why people make fun of Whitlock. I get it...but it is never really funny. As much as I understand the intent the execution is almost always poor. I mean, this bolded here? That is terrible.

blaise
06-09-2009, 11:34 PM
I understand why people make fun of Whitlock. I get it...but it is never really funny. As much as I understand the intent the execution is almost always poor. I mean, this bolded here? That is terrible.

Thank you mayor of comedy.

wild1
06-09-2009, 11:35 PM
Summers\Christmas from everywhere coming home from KC.

I am referring amazingly enough to a crowd that I see as some of the main targets as the "fresh out of college" crowd. Who still socialize in a manner much like they did in college they are just relocated (maybe)

I know this all sounds stupid, I am just not far removed from it. I have spent a lot of time up there as a photographer.

I do not doubt your expertise in urban anthropology. I am merely intrigued by your seemingly resentful generalization of "frat guys" as being a homogeneous group of people who have ceased social development.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 11:35 PM
Thank you mayor of comedy.

You're welcome.

DA_T_84
06-09-2009, 11:36 PM
I understand why people make fun of Whitlock. I get it...but it is never really funny. As much as I understand the intent the execution is almost always poor. I mean, this bolded here? That is terrible.

I thought my annoying kid statement earlier in this thread was halfway decent.

But, jokes aren't funny when you have to point them out. So, meh.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 11:37 PM
I do not doubt your expertise in urban anthropology. I am merely intrigued by your seemingly resentful generalization of "frat guys" as being a homogeneous group of people who have ceased social development.

Heh, ceased...is going far.

But this is the crowd they draw. Its out there...we could go any night of the week and I could show it to you. That doesn't make every frat guy fit that mold. But if we went the evidence would be overwhelming.

wild1
06-09-2009, 11:37 PM
I have a "reasonable amount" of disposable income.

I have four different pairs of flip flops and sandals and one pair of "normal" shoes.

I guess I won't be visiting the P&L district unless I bring my "normal" shoes.

Which happen to be very uncomfortable due to negligent use.

Once again, I only wondered aloud if sandals were permitted. I did not make any judgement about it, if such a ban exists.

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:38 PM
I understand why people make fun of Whitlock. I get it...but it is never really funny. As much as I understand the intent the execution is almost always poor. I mean, this bolded here? That is terrible.

The thing that's weirdest to me in all honesty, is that being Jason Whitlock isn't Carte Blanche in KC.

I mean, the guy is a national figure. He's written for AOL, Yahoo, appeared a countless number of times on ESPN and ESPN radio, had his own radio show and has had a column in KC for more than 15 years.

If he were white, he'd be considered KC royalty, like Kevin Harlan.

I'm NOT trying to turn this into a "race" thing but seriously, if Kevin Harlan and a few highly successful and wealthy white Americans showed up at that club, they'd have been given the V.I.P treatment for as long as they stayed.

blaise
06-09-2009, 11:38 PM
You're welcome.

Really though, I can see it bothers you that I defended myself to Dane. I didn't mean to try cause a conflict while you two were enjoying your special time.
I'll be more aware of your connection next time.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 11:39 PM
Really though, I can see it bothers you that I defended myself to Dane. I didn't mean to try cause a conflict while you two were enjoying your special time.
I'll be more aware of your connection next time.

You try too hard.

DA_T_84
06-09-2009, 11:40 PM
The thing that's weirdest to me in all honesty, is that being Jason Whitlock isn't Carte Blanche in KC.

I mean, the guy is a national figure. He's written for AOL, Yahoo, appeared a countless number of times on ESPN and ESPN radio, had his own radio show and has had a column in KC for more than 15 years.

If he were white, he'd be considered KC royalty, like Kevin Harlan.

I'm NOT trying to turn this into a "race" thing but seriously, if Kevin Harlan and a few highly successful and wealthy white Americans showed up at that club, they'd have been given the V.I.P treatment for as long as they stayed.

Harlan's not as big an asshole as Whitlock. Stuart Scott would have been treated just fine. So would Barkley- ha! So would Michael Wilbon.

Its not a race thing. Its an asshole thing.

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:41 PM
Really though, I can see it bothers you that I defended myself to Dane. I didn't mean to try cause a conflict while you two were enjoying your special time.
I'll be more aware of your connection next time.

Thank you

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 11:43 PM
The thing that's weirdest to me in all honesty, is that being Jason Whitlock isn't Carte Blanche in KC.

I mean, the guy is a national figure. He's written for AOL, Yahoo, appeared a countless number of times on ESPN and ESPN radio, had his own radio show and has had a column in KC for more than 15 years.

If he were white, he'd be considered KC royalty, like Kevin Harlan.

I'm NOT trying to turn this into a "race" thing but seriously, if Kevin Harlan and a few highly successful and wealthy white Americans showed up at that club, they'd have been given the V.I.P treatment for as long as they stayed.
Yea, the guy is at the top of his game. Do you know how many wannabe sports writers there are in the world?

I think it is just a matter of "familiarity breeding contempt" and when you consider the average sports message board fan gets their rocks off on constantly being unhappy (we call this petegzriah) you can see where it comes from.

The guy writes really good fucking articles. Are some of his articles shit? Of course they are, he is writing about something that people are well versed on and know in and out a few times a week and has been doing that for what feels like forever.

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:44 PM
Harlan's not as big an asshole as Whitlock. Stuart Scott would have been treated just fine. So would Barkley- ha! So would Michael Wilbon.

Its not a race thing. Its an asshole thing.

So, you think that Whitlock was an asshole to the bouncers, hence the problems?

Or that since you disagree with Whitlock's editorial comments, he should be treated differently than someone like Kevin Harlan, who's never written for a major new publication and is a color commentator for CBS and therefore, is never allowed an opinion?

In my opinion, there is a ridiculous amount of duplicity running throughout this thread.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 11:44 PM
Harlan's not as big an asshole as Whitlock. Stuart Scott would have been treated just fine. So would Barkley- ha! So would Michael Wilbon.

Its not a race thing. Its an asshole thing.

I have never gotten that from him after being part of a team he was covering, watching a live remote broadcast he did at place my family owns, and seeing him out and about town.

Not saying the guy isn't an asshole, I think to be a sports writer anywhere you have to be pretty cocky and opinionated. Thats what you do, you have opinions. Maybe he is an asshole? I haven't seen it.

DA_T_84
06-09-2009, 11:46 PM
Yea, the guy is at the top of his game. Do you know how many wannabe sports writers there are in the world?

I think it is just a matter of "familiarity breeding contempt" and when you consider the average sports message board fan gets their rocks off on constantly being unhappy (we call this petegzriah) you can see where it comes from.

The guy writes really good ****ing articles. Are some of his articles shit? Of course they are, he is writing about something that people are well versed on and know in and out a few times a week and has been doing that for what feels like forever.

I respectfully disagree. To me, its as if someone wrote letters into the opinion page every day regarding sports, and they were always published. It is like reading high school writing. He is obnoxious, and grating.

If you want to read a true professional, look elsewhere in the same paper for JoPo's article. And no, its not because he's white.

blaise
06-09-2009, 11:46 PM
The thing that's weirdest to me in all honesty, is that being Jason Whitlock isn't Carte Blanche in KC.

I mean, the guy is a national figure. He's written for AOL, Yahoo, appeared a countless number of times on ESPN and ESPN radio, had his own radio show and has had a column in KC for more than 15 years.

If he were white, he'd be considered KC royalty, like Kevin Harlan.

I'm NOT trying to turn this into a "race" thing but seriously, if Kevin Harlan and a few highly successful and wealthy white Americans showed up at that club, they'd have been given the V.I.P treatment for as long as they stayed.

Jason writes columns that alienate a lot of people. He's polarizing. Kevin Harlan is probably liked by more people here, but then again I wouldn't read something he wrote if it were sitting in front of me. And not all white guys with fame in KC are liked, I disagree a white guy would get VIP. There's just as many people here that dislike Kevin Kietzman. And quite frankly, Jason is probably more popular here with white people than black due to his comments about the Imus situation, rap music, etc.
I read Jason's columns a lot, but he's definitely open for ridicule. He does it to people in his columns, when he's hosting the Jim Rome show and in other places, so turnabout is fair play.

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:47 PM
I respectfully disagree. To me, its as if someone wrote letters into the opinion page every day regarding sports, and they were always published. It is like reading high school writing. He is obnoxious, and grating.

If you want to read a true professional, look elsewhere in the same paper for JoPo's article. And no, its not because he's white.

Good cop, bad cop.

If he sucked, he wouldn't have had a radio show, been on ESPN, Yahoo and AOL.

Not caring for his writing is one thing. Calling him a hack is another.

DA_T_84
06-09-2009, 11:48 PM
So, you think that Whitlock was an asshole to the bouncers, hence the problems?

Or that since you disagree with Whitlock's editorial comments, he should be treated differently than someone like Kevin Harlan, who's never written for a major new publication and is a color commentator for CBS and therefore, is never allowed an opinion?

In my opinion, there is a ridiculous amount of duplicity running throughout this thread.

No, I think that anyone who is a shock journalist is an amateur and asshole regardless of what heights they rise to... i/e: Howard Stern.

If I had to pick someone to worship first, Whitlock would be the latter. And not because he's black.

Fruit Ninja
06-09-2009, 11:48 PM
Funny how no one that is offended by this seems to have any suggestions as to how to solve the problem.

YOu cant really solve the problem. The people that gather in any area are the ones that solve the problem. They need to let shit go at times. I understand there are times wher eyou have to fight. Hell, even at 32 i will still do it, BUT you just cant get mad if someone bumps into you or something stupid.

ITs the people, not how you dress.

blaise
06-09-2009, 11:49 PM
I have never gotten that from him after being part of a team he was covering, watching a live remote broadcast he did at place my family owns, and seeing him out and about town.

Not saying the guy isn't an asshole, I think to be a sports writer anywhere you have to be pretty cocky and opinionated. Thats what you do, you have opinions. Maybe he is an asshole? I haven't seen it.

He's been an asshole to some people. He pretty much burned every bridge at ESPN after working there.

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:49 PM
Jason writes columns that alienate a lot of people. He's polarizing. Kevin Harlan is probably liked by more people here, but then again I wouldn't read something he wrote if it were sitting in front of me. And not all white guys with fame in KC are liked, I disagree a white guy would get VIP. There's just as many people here that dislike Kevin Kietzman. And quite frankly, Jason is probably more popular here with white people than black due to his comments about the Imus situation, rap music, etc.
I read Jason's columns a lot, but he's definitely open for ridicule. He does it to people in his columns, when he's hosting the Jim Rome show and in other places, so turnabout is fair play.

I'm sorry but in a town of very few true "celebrities", it's ludicrous to me that Whitlock can't get into a nightclub without a hassle.

DA_T_84
06-09-2009, 11:49 PM
I have never gotten that from him after being part of a team he was covering, watching a live remote broadcast he did at place my family owns, and seeing him out and about town.

Not saying the guy isn't an asshole, I think to be a sports writer anywhere you have to be pretty cocky and opinionated. Thats what you do, you have opinions. Maybe he is an asshole? I haven't seen it.

I was referring to his writing style. In person, he's lame, and appears as if he is brooding.

blaise
06-09-2009, 11:50 PM
Good cop, bad cop.

If he sucked, he wouldn't have had a radio show, been on ESPN, Yahoo and AOL.

Not caring for his writing is one thing. Calling him a hack is another.

Skip Bayless sucks and he's done most of those things.

blaise
06-09-2009, 11:51 PM
I'm sorry but in a town of very few true "celebrities", it's ludicrous to me that Whitlock can't get into a nightclub without a hassle.

It's possible the bouncer didn't know who he was. Most people here would but there's a surprising amount of people that don't follow sports that much.

DA_T_84
06-09-2009, 11:51 PM
Good cop, bad cop.

If he sucked, he wouldn't have had a radio show, been on ESPN, Yahoo and AOL.

Not caring for his writing is one thing. Calling him a hack is another.

Again, just because he rises to great heights, doesn't make him great. Tony Romo, for example. Howard Stern. Dane Cook. etc...

In my opinion he is a hack.

Mecca
06-09-2009, 11:51 PM
I think it's funny how people absolutely hate Whitlock regardless of what he says, there will always be a fat joke and a bunch of people who will disagree just cause he wrote it.

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:52 PM
No, I think that anyone who is a shock journalist is an amateur and asshole regardless of what heights they rise to... i/e: Howard Stern.

If I had to pick someone to worship first, Whitlock would be the latter. And not because he's black.

Yeah, Howard Stern and his billion dollar empire clearly suck.

:rolleyes:

I think this discussion is over.

Mecca
06-09-2009, 11:52 PM
Dane Cook who is one of the most financially successful comedians ever, he's a hack.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 11:52 PM
I respectfully disagree. To me, its as if someone wrote letters into the opinion page every day regarding sports, and they were always published. It is like reading high school writing. He is obnoxious, and grating.

If you want to read a true professional, look elsewhere in the same paper for JoPo's article. And no, its not because he's white.

The national sports writing media scene disagrees with you. Why would someone who writes the way you describe be writing nationally syndicated columns, be a sports writer for years and years as a colleague of JoPo at a paper known for having a decent sports section, be apart of sports radio shows locally and nationally.

a weekly column for ESPN.com and on the TV side guest-hosted Pardon the Interruption, Jim Rome is Burning, The Sports Reporters and appeared on Outside the Lines.

His pieces on the Imus situation and the NBA all start game in Vegas became catalysts for national discussion.

Are all those people just stupid? Its not like he is a polo player or anything. Do you know how many schmucks want to be and try to climb the ladder to be a sports writer? He is pretty much at the top of the heap.

You don't have to agree with him on anything because of all of this...hell a lot of times I think his takes are dramatic but I have to roll my eyes when people talk about how the writing is some garbage that isn't worth reading. The world disagrees with you.

wild1
06-09-2009, 11:53 PM
Heh, ceased...is going far.

But this is the crowd they draw. Its out there...we could go any night of the week and I could show it to you. That doesn't make every frat guy fit that mold. But if we went the evidence would be overwhelming.

A lot of people wearing sandals in the summer time? I am sure you could find that anywhere.

I don't pay a lot of attention to people's feet, but I find it hard to believe that you could make a lot of meaningful distinctions on social class simply by who wears sandals and who does not.

I suppose we are tilting at windmills. The sandals thing is not germane to anything.


To me, the main take-away here is not that Whitlock was dressed reasonably and still detained by the door staff. He broke the letter of the code, he doesn't dispute that, and I think most agree it should be enforced uniformly on everyone regardless of who they are.

I think the main story here is that Whitlock, rather than make an honest protest, got his connections to schmooze his way in. If the club's behavior was inappropriate, why did he patronize their business? Posing for photos, being seen there as if he had no issues, probably having a nice time, then he turns around and blasts the club in the paper the next day.

Isn't this a bit like a policeman patronizing a prostitute and then arresting her for prostitution?

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:53 PM
I think it's funny how people absolutely hate Whitlock regardless of what he says, there will always be a fat joke and a bunch of people who will disagree just cause he wrote it.

Because most people aren't smart enough to argue or compete with the man.

So instead, they attack his weight.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 11:53 PM
I think it's funny how people absolutely hate Whitlock regardless of what he says, there will always be a fat joke and a bunch of people who will disagree just cause he wrote it.

It would be better if the jokes were funny.

Not the case.

dtebbe
06-09-2009, 11:54 PM
Whitlock cracks me up. What idiot would pay $500 for a pair of baggy shorts, sandals, and a tommy-bahama "looking" shirt? Oh yea.. nevermind.

$5 says the words "Do you know who I am" were recited more than once...

ROFL

DT

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:55 PM
I respectfully disagree. To me, its as if someone wrote letters into the opinion page every day regarding sports, and they were always published. It is like reading high school writing. He is obnoxious, and grating.

If you want to read a true professional, look elsewhere in the same paper for JoPo's article. And no, its not because he's white.

Whitlock IS a "True professional". Must we list his accomplishments and employers again?

It's fine if you don't like him or his writings. But saying that he's not a "true professional" is completely disingenuous.

blaise
06-09-2009, 11:55 PM
I think it's funny how people absolutely hate Whitlock regardless of what he says, there will always be a fat joke and a bunch of people who will disagree just cause he wrote it.

I agree with a lot of what Whitlock says. I once had a debate in a thread here with micjones defending his articles.

But he is fat and he takes shots at people, so his weight is open game I say.

I don't disagree with what he says. The whole dress code thing down there bothers me. I do think it's a bit funny though that he tells us to discount DJJJ's story but accept his own.

Dottefan
06-09-2009, 11:55 PM
Here we go again with "you just don't understand". Christ, don't dress like a gangbanger, and you'll be fine. I fail to see what is so hard to understand about that.

Thats the point...you dont understand.

DaneMcCloud
06-09-2009, 11:56 PM
Whitlock cracks me up. What idiot would pay $500 for a pair of baggy shorts, sandals, and a tommy-bahama "looking" shirt? Oh yea.. nevermind.

$5 says the words "Do you know who I am" were recited more than once...

ROFL

DT

Which if said, is a black mark (no pun intended) on the P&L District.

|Zach|
06-09-2009, 11:56 PM
Whitlock cracks me up. What idiot would pay $500 for a pair of baggy shorts, sandals, and a tommy-bahama "looking" shirt? Oh yea.. nevermind.

$5 says the words "Do you know who I am" were recited more than once...

ROFL

DT

You wanna put $5 in perspective?

If I got a 5 spot everytime someone on CP said something along the lines of "I can't believe this but I am agreeing with a Whitlock column" or "i can't believe I am saying this but that was a pretty good read" ??

Shut it down.

I would be rich.

Filthy stinking rich.

Mecca
06-09-2009, 11:56 PM
I agree with a lot of what Whitlock says. I once had a debate in a thread here with micjones defending his articles.

But he is fat and he takes shots at people, so his weight is open game I say.

I don't disagree with what he says. The whole dress code thing down there bothers me. I do think it's a bit funny though that he tells us to discount DJJJ's story but accept his own.

He's giving you his personal account of what he witnessed and experienced, posters on this various board frequently do that.

Should we meet them with, man I think you're just a lying fuckin hack, fat ass.

DA_T_84
06-09-2009, 11:57 PM
Okay. You are right. Howard Stern rocks.

I think where we are disagreeing here is a matter of confusing success and quality.

I think the two can exist without being paired, whereas you think they have to be paired.

That's fine. We just disagree is all.

DA_T_84
06-09-2009, 11:58 PM
Whitlock IS a "True professional". Must we list his accomplishments and employers again?

It's fine if you don't like him or his writings. But saying that he's not a "true professional" is completely disingenuous.

Come on man, you are playing semantics here.

Mecca
06-09-2009, 11:58 PM
Howard Stern is the most well known radio personality of all time, how can anyone say that he isn't quality?

blaise
06-09-2009, 11:58 PM
The national sports writing media scene disagrees with you. Why would someone who writes the way you describe be writing nationally syndicated columns, be a sports writer for years and years as a colleague of JoPo at a paper known for having a decent sports section, be apart of sports radio shows locally and nationally.

a weekly column for ESPN.com and on the TV side guest-hosted Pardon the Interruption, Jim Rome is Burning, The Sports Reporters and appeared on Outside the Lines.

His pieces on the Imus situation and the NBA all start game in Vegas became catalysts for national discussion.

Are all those people just stupid? Its not like he is a polo player or anything. Do you know how many schmucks want to be and try to climb the ladder to be a sports writer? He is pretty much at the top of the heap.

You don't have to agree with him on anything because of all of this...hell a lot of times I think his takes are dramatic but I have to roll my eyes when people talk about how the writing is some garbage that isn't worth reading. The world disagrees with you.

Well, there's some out there that would say it's because he says things about black people that white people want to hear but are afraid to say.
In other words, that's he's a sort of Uncle Tom.

DA_T_84
06-09-2009, 11:59 PM
Obviously he is a professional- he gets paid to do what he does. I am saying that in my opinion he is a poor writer. Does my opinion matter? Nope. But its a message board.

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 12:00 AM
Okay. You are right. Howard Stern rocks.

I think where we are disagreeing here is a matter of confusing success and quality.

I think the two can exist without being paired, whereas you think they have to be paired.

That's fine. We just disagree is all.

What I am saying is how on Earth, with all the completion there is to make money in the field of sports writing could someone do so well that could at the same time be described like this...

To me, its as if someone wrote letters into the opinion page every day regarding sports, and they were always published. It is like reading high school writing. He is obnoxious, and grating.

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:00 AM
Howard Stern is the most well known radio personality of all time, how can anyone say that he isn't quality?

I can appreciate his accomplishments and what not- he is very successful. But I just think its easy to get listeners when you have girls squirting on air.

As opposed to doing by just running a legit talk show or whatever. Obviously he's successful. I get that. I am just critiquing his approach is all.

Bugeater
06-10-2009, 12:01 AM
Thats the point...you dont understand.
What exactly don't I understand? Can you elaborate on that at all? Cuz it really sounds like a cop-out to me.

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:01 AM
Okay. You are right. Howard Stern rocks.

I think where we are disagreeing here is a matter of confusing success and quality.

I think the two can exist without being paired, whereas you think they have to be paired.

That's fine. We just disagree is all.

Personally, it doesn't matter to me if you like Howard Stern or Jason Whitlock.

The bottom line is that they are both successful in their respective industries (Howard is obviously ridiculously successful).

I don't care who you are or what you write about but if you can have a editorial column in a newspaper like the KC Star for 15 year, you're successful.

If you can parlay that into a radio show, ESPN, Yahoo and AOL, you're insanely successful.

WHY a guy like that would have issues getting into a bar in Kansas City is beyond my comprehension.

blaise
06-10-2009, 12:01 AM
He's giving you his personal account of what he witnessed and experienced, posters on this various board frequently do that.

Should we meet them with, man I think you're just a lying ****in hack, fat ass.

I'm not saying he's lying, in fact I'd say he's probably telling the truth, but he's asking us to believe him but not believe someone else in a different story(DJ Jazzy Jeff)

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:02 AM
Come on man, you are playing semantics here.

No, you just don't want to acknowledge the fact that Whitlock has had an extremely successful career.

Mecca
06-10-2009, 12:02 AM
I can appreciate his accomplishments and what not- he is very successful. But I just think its easy to get listeners when you have girls squirting on air.

As opposed to doing by just running a legit talk show or whatever. Obviously he's successful. I get that. I am just critiquing his approach is all.

You should flip on any radio format in the morning they're all like that....and the ones that aren't have no listeners because they are boring and considered "for the old out of touch people"

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:03 AM
What I am saying is how on Earth, with all the completion there is to make money in the field of sports writing could someone do so well that could at the same time be described like this...

Well, I get that he gets noticed, but just as I responded to Mecca about Howard Stern's approach, i feel the same way about Whitlocks.

It's easy to talk shit on popular subjects to stir the pot. I get it. It's his thing. It will create a buzz, buzz=more impressions, more impressions=acclaim and awards.

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:04 AM
Obviously he is a professional- he gets paid to do what he does. I am saying that in my opinion he is a poor writer.

A poor writer?

You've just lost all credibility.

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:05 AM
No, you just don't want to acknowledge the fact that Whitlock has had an extremely successful career.

He is very successful, and has been noticed on a national level. (acknowledgement)

I think he blows goats. (opinion)

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:05 AM
Well, I get that he gets noticed, but just as I responded to Mecca about Howard Stern's approach, i feel the same way about Whitlocks.

It's easy to talk shit on popular subjects to stir the pot. I get it. It's his thing. It will create a buzz, buzz=more impressions, more impressions=acclaim and awards.

I don't think you get.

No offense.

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:05 AM
A poor writer?

You've just lost all credibility.

That's a typo- a funny placed one at that.

He has editors to catch that stuff ROFL

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:05 AM
He is very successful, and has been noticed on a national level. (acknowledgement)

I think he blows goats. (opinion)

Because you don't like his opinions.

NOT because he's a poor writer.

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 12:06 AM
Well, I get that he gets noticed, but just as I responded to Mecca about Howard Stern's approach, i feel the same way about Whitlocks.

It's easy to talk shit on popular subjects to stir the pot. I get it. It's his thing. It will create a buzz, buzz=more impressions, more impressions=acclaim and awards.

What are you talking about? Like he is the only one talking shit on popular subjects.

Dude. Do you take in any media at all?

You can't go one page of a newspaper, channel on a TV station, or article on a web page without a million people doing the same thing.

You are trying to tell me Whitlock is one of the few ones doing that? He isn't a needle in a haystack. He is a needle that has been picked from a huge stack of needles.

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:06 AM
I don't think you get.

No offense.

speaking of typos...... :p

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 12:07 AM
Because you don't like his opinions.

NOT because he's a poor writer.

Exactly, don't like his opinions?

Yea, I get it.

Poor writer? C'moooon.

blaise
06-10-2009, 12:08 AM
What are you talking about? Like he is the only one talking shit on popular subjects.

Dude. Do you take in any media at all?

You can't go one page of a newspaper, channel on a TV station, or article on a web page without a million people doing the same thing.

You are trying to tell me Whitlock is one of the few ones doing that? He isn't a needle in a haystack. He is a needle that has been picked from a huge stack of needles.

Jason does it more than most though. You can't deny that.

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:08 AM
Because you don't like his opinions.

NOT because he's a poor writer.

In my opinion, his writing style is sub par- but again, my opinion doesnt count. I don't like his tone in many articles, it sounds whiny and he continues to use that same tone in many of his articles.

That is why i dislike his writing style.

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:09 AM
Jason does it more than most though. You can't deny that.

"Does it more than most" where?

In KC?

Across the nation?

Clarify your position, please.

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:09 AM
What are you talking about? Like he is the only one talking shit on popular subjects.

Dude. Do you take in any media at all?

You can't go one page of a newspaper, channel on a TV station, or article on a web page without a million people doing the same thing.

You are trying to tell me Whitlock is one of the few ones doing that? He isn't a needle in a haystack. He is a needle that has been picked from a huge stack of needles.

I completely agree with you. I do.

I just personally dislike him because of the fact that he talks shit on things I like. I am not hiding from that fact.

So thats why I attack him.

blaise
06-10-2009, 12:10 AM
Exactly, don't like his opinions?

Yea, I get it.

Poor writer? C'moooon.

I wouldn't say he's a poor writer but there's more people than just Dante that would tell you he writes some poorly thought out columns. Dante isn't on an island with his opinion.

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 12:11 AM
I completely agree with you. I do.

I just personally dislike him because of the fact that he talks shit on things I like. I am not hiding from that fact.

So thats why I attack him.

Well there ya go!

Lets drop this "bad writer" thing.

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:11 AM
I wouldn't say he's a poor writer but there's more people than just Dante that would tell you he writes some poorly thought out columns. Dante isn't on an island with his opinion.

rep, playa.

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:12 AM
In my opinion, his writing style is sub par- but again, my opinion doesnt count. I don't like his tone in many articles, it sounds whiny and he continues to use that same tone in many of his articles.

That is why i dislike his writing style.

With no offense, you sound like a teenager that's butthurt because your favorites teams are disparaged (and rightfully so) in print by your local paper.

Again, with all due respect, Jason Whitlock would not be employed by the K Star, ESPN, AOL and Yahoo if his writing "style" was "sub par".

The bias here is YOURS and yours alone.

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 12:12 AM
I wouldn't say he's a poor writer but there's more people than just Dante that would tell you he writes some poorly thought out columns. Dante isn't on an island with his opinion.

Of course not. You are on a sports message board. If you are throwing out something you can guarantee people are not gonna like it.

People LIVE to not like things on here. Petegzariah.

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:12 AM
Well there ya go!

Lets drop this "bad writer" thing.

No, I still think he is a bad writer. See my opinion on his tone.

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 12:13 AM
No, I still think he is a bad writer. See my opinion on his tone.

LMAO

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:13 AM
Of course not. You are on a sports message board. If you are throwing out something you can guarantee people are not gonna like it.

People LIVE to not like things on here. Petegzariah.

haha so true.

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:13 AM
I just personally dislike him because of the fact that he talks shit on things I like. I am not hiding from that fact.

So thats why I attack him.

:rolleyes:

Well, nothing like facts.

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:14 AM
The bias here is YOURS and yours alone.

Out of the five of us participating in this discussion, yes.

TinyEvel
06-10-2009, 12:16 AM
This is why I always wear THIS shirt to clubs (thanks, Dane!)

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:16 AM
We're goin in circles here. I need some sleep guys. Good night; I am going to hop into my JoPo PJ's.

blaise
06-10-2009, 12:17 AM
"Does it more than most" where?

In KC?

Across the nation?

Clarify your position, please.

Jason writes articles with the intention of stirring the pot, specifically regarding racial issues. He does this more than the majority of sports writers across the nation. I don't even think Jason would disagree with the second part of that. Now, you could say he writes more about racial issues than other writers because he's a minority, both in the profession and in society, but even beyond that he has a reputation for writing pieces that would attract attention due to their inflammatory content.
I've actually defended Jason here before. I believe most of the time he's expressing an honest opinion, but there is a school of thought out there (by a fairly large number of people, especially black people; I'm not sure why this is surprising to you and Zach) that he writes racially controversial articles that are what white people want to hear so that he can get on national shows.

Dottefan
06-10-2009, 12:18 AM
What exactly don't I understand? Can you elaborate on that at all? Cuz it really sounds like a cop-out to me.

Its no cop out, its just fact. I am not saying it as a victim, or with any hostility. I think allot of people get the wrong Idea when some one of color makes this statement. Its just like a woman telling a man that he wouldn't understand certain things. If you are a person of color you are going to experience allot more situations in your life were race is a factor then some one who is white. I am not saying white people don't get discriminated against because it happens, just not nearly as much as some one of color does. For instance, sometimes things happen or people react a certain way , and in the back of your mind SOMETIMES you don't know if its because of your race, or that person just had a bad day. There are just certain things that you go through , that some one who is not a minority would have a hard time understanding or relating to.

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:18 AM
Well there ya go!

Lets drop this "bad writer" thing.

Zach,

Whitlock is a "bad writer" because he doesn't write how awesome the Chiefs and Royals are everyday, like JoPo.

He doesn't write about how cool it is to watch a game or how cool it is to actually talk to a guy that plays baseball or football.

He says bad things about a team that's only had 3 winning seasons in the past 9. He says bad things about a baseball team that hasn't had a playoff season since 1985.

He's an asshole because these teams are actually really good!

Why can't you see that?!!!

Whhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyyy?

Just Passin' By
06-10-2009, 12:18 AM
1.) You can be wildly successful and still be a hack, in many fields. It happens all the time in fields involving writing.

2.) As a sports columnist, Whitlock is not required to be a good writer. Clearly, it's a bonus but, just as clearly, it's not necessary. There are many examples of this throughout the country.

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 12:18 AM
1.) You can be wildly successful and still be a hack, in many fields. It happens all the time in fields involving writing.

2.) As a sports columnist, Whitlock is not required to be a good writer. Clearly, it's a bonus but, just as clearly, it's not necessary. There are many examples of this throughout the country.

So is it your opinion he is not a good writer?

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:20 AM
Jason writes articles with the intention of stirring the pot, specifically regarding racial issues. He does this more than the majority of sports writers across the nation. I don't even think Jason would disagree with the second part of that. Now, you could say he writes more about racial issues than other writers because he's a minority, both in the profession and in society, but even beyond that he has a reputation for writing pieces that would attract attention due to their inflammatory content.
I've actually defended Jason here before. I believe most of the time he's expressing an honest opinion, but there is a school of thought out there (by a fairly large number of people, especially black people; I'm not sure why this is surprising to you and Zach) that he writes racially controversial articles that are what white people want to hear so that he can get on national shows.

How ironic. Horrific grammar, sentence and paragraph structure from someone criticizing another person who writes for multiple national media outlets.

:hmmm:

Just Passin' By
06-10-2009, 12:21 AM
So is it your opinion he is not a good writer?

He's not anything special, and I'll leave it at that.

blaise
06-10-2009, 12:21 AM
Of course not. You are on a sports message board. If you are throwing out something you can guarantee people are not gonna like it.

People LIVE to not like things on here. Petegzariah.

That's true in society as a whole.

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:21 AM
Zach,

Whitlock is a "bad writer" because he doesn't write how awesome the Chiefs and Royals are everyday, like JoPo.

He doesn't write about how cool it is to watch a game or how cool it is to actually talk to a guy that plays baseball or football.

He says bad things about a team that's only had 3 winning seasons in the past 9. He says bad things about a baseball team that hasn't had a playoff season since 1985.

He's an asshole because these teams are actually really good!

Why can't you see that?!!!

Whhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyyy?

Ahhhh, so JoPo is a bad writer????

But, but, but.... he was on the cover of SI.... so that's not possible...

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 12:21 AM
That's true in society as a whole.

I think its breeds here exponentially in contrast to real life.

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:22 AM
This is why I always wear THIS shirt to clubs (thanks, Dane!)

I have more where that came from.

Let me know if you need one for hernia sufferers.

It's crotchless.

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 12:22 AM
The Scripps Howard Foundation awarded Whitlock its National Journalism Award for commentary on March 7, 2008. Whitlock was the first sports writer to win the award and $10,000 prize.

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:22 AM
How ironic. Horrific grammar, sentence and paragraph structure from someone criticizing another person who writes for multiple national media outlets.

:hmmm:

A message board is different than an article. You are playing semantics. Its your thing, I guess. But silly to call this out, man.

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:23 AM
The Scripps Howard Foundation awarded Whitlock its National Journalism Award for commentary on March 7, 2008. Whitlock was the first sports writer to win the award and $10,000 prize.

That's false.

I read on Chiefsplanet that he sucks because he doesn't like the Chiefs or Royals.

(Disclaimer: Either do their respective owners).

blaise
06-10-2009, 12:24 AM
How ironic. Horrific grammar, sentence and paragraph structure from someone criticizing another person who writes for multiple national media outlets.

:hmmm:

Where did I criticize his writing ability? I notice you chose to ignore the content of my post. I guess you had nothing else.
Are you and Zach really shocked that there's people that don't like Jason? Do you not remember when Vivian Stringer and others chastised him at a conference for hurting the public perception of African Americans?

Just Passin' By
06-10-2009, 12:24 AM
The Scripps Howard Foundation awarded Whitlock its National Journalism Award for commentary on March 7, 2008. Whitlock was the first sports writer to win the award and $10,000 prize.

The Nobel Foundation awarded Al Gore a share of the Nobel Peace Prize for his work on 'man-made climate change'.

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:24 AM
That's false.

I read on Chiefsplanet that he sucks because he doesn't like the Chiefs or Royals.

(Disclaimer: Either do their respective owners).


Your last period should have been inside the parenthesis. Not outside. You have lost all credibility.

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:24 AM
A message board is different than an article. You are playing semantics. Its your thing, I guess. But silly to call this out, man.

No, it's not.

Improve your skills.

You'll receive more respect.

blaise
06-10-2009, 12:25 AM
Don't worry dante. You and I are just fabricating this stuff.

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2007/05/an-open-letter-to-jason-whitlock/

TinyEvel
06-10-2009, 12:25 AM
I have more where that came from.

Let me know if you need one for hernia sufferers.

It's crotchless.

some shit aint right. My ballsack is the color of an eggplant and almost as big

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:25 AM
Your last period should have been inside the parenthesis. Not outside. You have lost all credibility.

You're new.

I lost all credibility around 2004.

And I've had about a 1/2 bottle of whiskey tonight.

Can you say the same?

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:26 AM
some shit aint right. My ballsack is the color of an eggplant and almost as big

I'll make a few calls tomorrow and line you up with a porn gig.

You might even make as much as $140.00 US dollars!

(Before my fee, of course.)

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:27 AM
You're new.

I lost all credibility around 2004.

haha, fair enough.

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 12:27 AM
Don't worry dante. You and I are just fabricating this stuff.

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2007/05/an-open-letter-to-jason-whitlock/

I never remember our point being "everyone loves Jason Whitlock" we are saying there are a lot of reasons to not like the guy. "Being a bad writer" is one that is foolish. I think we have been pretty clear on that.

blaise
06-10-2009, 12:29 AM
I never remember our point being "everyone loves Jason Whitlock" we are saying there are a lot of reasons to not like the guy. "Being a bad writer" is one that is foolish. I think we have been pretty clear on that.

I bet there are writers that would say writing disingenuous articles is hack, and that's what more than a few people accuse him of.

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:30 AM
I bet there are writers that would say writing disingenuous articles is hack, and that's what more than a few people accuse him of.

Then answer me this: Why hasn't he been fired?

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:30 AM
I never remember our point being "everyone loves Jason Whitlock" we are saying there are a lot of reasons to not like the guy. "Being a bad writer" is one that is foolish. I think we have been pretty clear on that.

But we haven't. It isn't foolish. You can have success and still suck. Bush. Gore. Ruben Studdard. Tony Romo. Cream of Mushroom soup. New Mexico. Cats. Disco music.

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 12:30 AM
I bet there are writers that would say writing disingenuous articles is hack, and that's what more than a few people accuse him of.

Ok, well whenever I am trying to convince somebody that everyone loves Jason Whitlock be sure to come back with all this great info.
:hmmm:

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:31 AM
Then answer me this: Why hasn't he been fired?

because people read him. ONLY reason. Even if he was great, and no one read him, he would be fired.

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:32 AM
because people read him. ONLY reason. Even if he was great, and no one read him, he would be fired.

How old are you?

Just curious.

Dottefan
06-10-2009, 12:32 AM
I HATE DENVER

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 12:32 AM
I bet there are writers that would say writing disingenuous articles is hack, and that's what more than a few people accuse him of.

Would it be possible to be in the game of opinion sports writing for 15 years and be able not be accused of this?

blaise
06-10-2009, 12:32 AM
Then answer me this: Why hasn't he been fired?

That has nothing to do with it. He sells papers, that doesn't mean that other writers can't think he's hack for writing articles simply to stir the pot even when he doesn't believe what he's saying.
I guarantee there's many writers who think Skip Bayless and Jay Mariotti are hack too.

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:33 AM
How old are you?

Just curious.

I'm the ripe old age of 84.

Bugeater
06-10-2009, 12:33 AM
Its no cop out, its just fact. I am not saying it as a victim, or with any hostility. I think allot of people get the wrong Idea when some one of color makes this statement. Its just like a woman telling a man that he wouldn't understand certain things. If you are a person of color you are going to experience allot more situations in your life were race is a factor then some one who is white. I am not saying white people don't get discriminated against because it happens, just not nearly as much as some one of color does. For instance, sometimes things happen or people react a certain way , and in the back of your mind SOMETIMES you don't know if its because of your race, or that person just had a bad day. There are just certain things that you go through , that some one who is not a minority would understand.
I was looking more for specific examples of what you deal with on a daily basis, but it's late and I need to go to bed so no need to trouble yourself with it now.

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 12:33 AM
That has nothing to do with it. He sells papers, that doesn't mean that other writers can't think he's hack for writing articles simply to stir the pot even when he doesn't believe what he's saying.
I guarantee there's many writers who think Skip Bayless and Jay Mariotti are hack too.

Yea, sounds like a sports writer thing. You keep leveling the field instead of separating Jason from it. :hmmm:

blaise
06-10-2009, 12:33 AM
Ok, well whenever I am trying to convince somebody that everyone loves Jason Whitlock be sure to come back with all this great info.
:hmmm:

That's not the point. You acted as though the notion that anyone would suggest Jason is hack is ridiculous.

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 12:34 AM
That's not the point. You acted as though the notion that anyone would suggest Jason is hack is ridiculous.

Link? I have said bad writer.

DaneMcCloud
06-10-2009, 12:35 AM
That has nothing to do with it. He sells papers, that doesn't mean that other writers can't think he's hack for writing articles simply to stir the pot even when he doesn't believe what he's saying.
I guarantee there's many writers who think Skip Bayless and Jay Mariotti are hack too.

So? What's your point? That "hacks" can sell papers?

Clearly, you don't get his appeal but obviously the KC Star, Yahoo, AOL and ESPN disagree.

My advice? Get over it and move on.

You've engaged in a losing battle. There's too much proof to the contrary.

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:38 AM
So? What's your point? That "hacks" can sell papers?

Clearly, you don't get his appeal but obviously the KC Star, Yahoo, AOL and ESPN disagree.

My advice? Get over it and move on.

You've engaged in a losing battle. There's too much proof to the contrary.

Dude, your opinions are facts, and our opinions are wrong opinions. You keep referring to his success. I have said that success doesn't make him good.

You think the Star, etc., hired him because he is good? FUCK no. They hire him because he increases readership. Its all about the bottom line.

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 12:40 AM
Dude, your opinions are facts, and our opinions are wrong opinions. You keep referring to his success. I have said that success doesn't make him good.

You think the Star, etc., hired him because he is good? **** no. They hire him because he increases readership. Its all about the bottom line.

But the medium is the written word. If you are bad at the written word as you say you can't increase readership.

You are giving him credit for getting great results in a medium you think he is bad at.

If I am a bad dancer I am prob not going to do well on a show that features all dancing.

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:42 AM
But the medium is the written word. If you are bad at the written word as you say you can't increase readership.

You are giving him credit for getting great results in a medium you think he is bad at.

If I am a bad dancer I am prob not going to do well on a show that features all dancing.

Bullshit! William Hung did great on AI, and he sucked. People love that dude.

blaise
06-10-2009, 12:42 AM
So? What's your point? That "hacks" can sell papers?

Clearly, you don't get his appeal but obviously the KC Star, Yahoo, AOL and ESPN disagree.

My advice? Get over it and move on.

You've engaged in a losing battle. There's too much proof to the contrary.

What are you talking about? My point is simply this: You and Zach seem to be acting as though criticizing Whitlock's writing is ridiculous. The actual word structure and grammar are not what I'm criticizing. I'm telling you that there's a segment of society that considers him a poor writer because they feel he's coming from a false place. That's he's writing articles he doesn't believe in because he's trying to ingratiate himself white white americans that want to hear someone disparage black culture.
You're whole argument that he's great because he gets jobs. So what? Britney Spears sold tons of CDs- she sucks. Winger had a top 40 song, they suck............oh wait, I forgot, Dane thinks Winger is awesome.
You two continue on with you're little boyfriend/boyfriend act. Maybe Dane can regale you with some Kip Winger tales Zach.

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 12:43 AM
Bullshit! William Hung did great on AI, and he sucked. People love that dude.

For 15 years? You guys keep coming up with 1 shot novelty results. We are talking about Pearl Jam here not Chumbawumba.

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:45 AM
For 15 years? You guys keep coming up with 1 shot novelty results. We are talking about Pearl Jam here not Chumbawumba.

Okay, fine.

Carrot top.

Just Passin' By
06-10-2009, 12:51 AM
For 15 years? You guys keep coming up with 1 shot novelty results. We are talking about Pearl Jam here not Chumbawumba.

Skip Bayless, Paul Krugman, almost any romance novelist.....

You can pretty much pick your field and find hacks that thrive for years. Publications like The National Enquirer should be a clue for anyone who'd even think of arguing otherwise.

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 12:52 AM
Skip Bayless, Paul Krugman, almost any romance novelist.....

You can pretty much pick your field and find hacks that thrive for years. Publications like The National Enquirer should be a clue for anyone who'd even think of arguing otherwise.

Good thing we are talking about someone who is at the KANSAS CITY STAR.

DA_T_84
06-10-2009, 12:54 AM
Good thing we are talking about someone who is at the KANSAS CITY STAR.

?

Yes, it is a good thing.

Just Passin' By
06-10-2009, 12:55 AM
Good thing we are talking about someone who is at the KANSAS CITY STAR.

That's just location. Whitlock isn't outshining Shakespeare, and being at a newspaper for long periods of time doesn't guarantee greatness in writing. I'd have thought Bayless and Krugman would have served as sufficient examples of that to end that thrust of the argument.

Reaper16
06-10-2009, 01:05 AM
I do not doubt your expertise in urban anthropology. I am merely intrigued by your seemingly resentful generalization of "frat guys" as being a homogeneous group of people who have ceased social development.
wild1 has never been to a bar, apparently. Or he's a former frat guy who is oblivious to how douchy his brethren are.

Dottefan
06-10-2009, 01:17 AM
I REALLY HATE DENVER

Reaper16
06-10-2009, 01:20 AM
I REALLY HATE DENVER
You know what? Me too.

Dottefan
06-10-2009, 01:23 AM
I personally don't like Whitlock. I think he does this for attention more than to make a point. I stopped reading his column after he started blaming rap music for everything from 911 to herpes.

BWillie
06-10-2009, 01:44 AM
Your contrarian views seem to be a little bit too convenient. Like seeing a bunch of people get shot up in the Westport thread and now this?

I *guess* we will have to take your word for it.

Dude, my friend's wife, well her friend was down there last summer and got shot walking to her car. She had no money, so they shot her in the face. Seriously, I have no need to go to Westport anymore. I've seen alot of things go down in my years in KC, and when I moved here I didn't even know it had a stereotype. I learned it. When I go to PNL, I've never even seen cops have to chase anyone down and tackle someone. And 10x more people are down there. I'm just speaking of past experience.

Ari Chi3fs
06-10-2009, 01:47 AM
Douchebag status: CONFIRMED!
[/B]

You have to realize his neck is probably 20 inches around... so a 23 inch gold chain isn't that ridiculous.

Reaper16
06-10-2009, 01:48 AM
Dude, my friend's wife, well her friend was down there last summer and got shot walking to her car. She had no money, so they shot her in the face. Seriously, I have no need to go to Westport anymore. I've seen alot of things go down in my years in KC, and when I moved here I didn't even know it had a stereotype. I learned it. When I go to PNL, I've never even seen cops have to chase anyone down and tackle someone. And 10x more people are down there. I'm just speaking of past experience.
So Zach implies that you might be making some of this stuff up... and you respond with an anecdote about something you didn't see yourself?

Ari Chi3fs
06-10-2009, 01:50 AM
I have been turned away at a P&L... on my BIRTHDAY 2008... I had on a Chiefs jersey. I was like, really? We live in KANSAS CITY!

I was pissed, but whatever... only been back one other time.

BWillie
06-10-2009, 01:52 AM
So Zach implies that you might be making some of this stuff up... and you respond with an anecdote about something you didn't see yourself?

What do you want me to do find the news article that shows she was lit up and her blood was all over the ground?

Reaper16
06-10-2009, 01:54 AM
What do you want me to do find the news article that shows she was lit up and her blood was all over the ground?
You know what they say... worthless without pics.

BWillie
06-10-2009, 01:56 AM
You know what they say... worthless without pics.

:shake:

Reaper16
06-10-2009, 01:58 AM
:shake:
C'mon! That post was hilarious!

googlegoogle
06-10-2009, 02:21 AM
How does the kcstar fire Whitlock without being sued?

could explain why people are canceling subscriptions.

|Zach|
06-10-2009, 02:23 AM
How does the kcstar fire Whitlock without being sued?

could explain why people are canceling subscriptions.

You have numbers to suggest that people are cancelling subscriptions to the KCStar at a rate higher than the industry average?

Dottefan
06-10-2009, 02:35 AM
whitlock sucks......but not as much as Denver.

Dottefan
06-10-2009, 02:45 AM
The PL district sucks too.......but Denver swallows

Jethopper
06-10-2009, 02:49 AM
Jason's conduct is "upity".

Dottefan
06-10-2009, 02:57 AM
Jason's conduct is "upity".

Can you please explain this for me? What do you exactly mean by "upity"

the Talking Can
06-10-2009, 04:59 AM
I live in a different city than you, where nearly everything is custom made.

I apologize for the misunderstanding.


lol....i don't even know what that could mean, but it is hilarious....

HonestChieffan
06-10-2009, 06:10 AM
Whitlock exceeds the approved weight limit for most buildings with a basement. They were being polite by saying it was his bling that was a no no.

TinyEvel
06-10-2009, 06:25 AM
For 15 years? You guys keep coming up with 1 shot novelty results. We are talking about Pearl Jam here not Chumbawumba.

Though, it could be argued the "Tub Thumping" was the definitive party song of 1997, and a DAMN-GOOD football stadium patter song during time outs "I get knocked down, but I get up again...."

TinyEvel
06-10-2009, 06:26 AM
I have been turned away at a P&L... on my BIRTHDAY 2008... I had on a Chiefs jersey. I was like, really? We live in KANSAS CITY!

I was pissed, but whatever... only been back one other time.

Was it a Grbac jersey?

MahiMike
06-10-2009, 06:30 AM
I applaud P&L for having a dress code that keeps Whitlock out.

Deberg_1990
06-10-2009, 06:37 AM
Its unfortunate that nearly every JWhit thread posted here has to turn into "Whitlock" instead of the content of the column.




Good Stuff. Although im all for a dress policy at this place if it helps cut down on security incidents", im thinking the P&L management needs to look into applying a little common sense into certain situations as well.

The policy, or the way that it is applied, definatly appears to be racially insensitive if nothing else.

Fairplay
06-10-2009, 06:38 AM
“The problem is there were too many of ya’ll at once,” said O’Guin, who is a white conservative and a Redneck Republican. “A brother is cool as long as he’s by himself. But once there’s three or more blacks or Mexicans going at once, then there’s a problem. That’s when you’ll get stopped. If it means getting my shotgun out then so be it"




FYP LMAO

Fairplay
06-10-2009, 06:44 AM
We left, feeling insulted and unwanted. Given our age, life experience and multiple options, we didn’t leave angry. I'm a reporter for the Star so i will just type of a long and slightly exaggerated column about this experience. Don't get mad get even as i say.


FYP ...LMAO

joesomebody
06-10-2009, 07:27 AM
Dress codes that ban nice clothes are stupid but at the same time, not everyone has the same opinion on what is nice. He's full of shit if he has been in the best clubs in Las Vegas wearing shorts and sandals. Maybe as a V.I.P with a reserved table, but the clubs in Vegas require pants (most don't even allow jeans), dress shoes, and shirt with a collar (typically a button down.)

I do feel that many of the dress codes try to limit the gangster/hip hop clothing styles, probably to limit the element that is associated with that type of clothing regardless of what race is wearing it. And all races do wear them. Sports jerseys are considered hip hop attire by most.

There is no right answer, and I certainly think it's bullshit if they truly are turning people down because of their skin color. They should hire a bunch of college students and do an experiment some weekend. Have people of different races all dressed in very similar borderline outfits and stagger them in throughout the night, take notes on who is stopped or hassled and who isn't. Sue the shit out of the city if the racism turns out to be valid.

Deberg_1990
06-10-2009, 07:30 AM
They should hire a bunch of college students and do an experiment some weekend. Have people of different races all dressed in very similar borderline outfits and stagger them in throughout the night, take notes on who is stopped or hassled and who isn't.

Thats a very good idea.

blaise
06-10-2009, 07:37 AM
Thats a very good idea.

I think so too. I would really like to see that.

CoMoChief
06-10-2009, 07:45 AM
Once again a dress code isn't racist.

The black people that want to dress up "hip hop" or what have you can change into different clothes and gain access to P&L.

Hip hop clothing style does nothing but cause trouble in a club setting. Always has, this is nothing new. It happens all the time whether its in a big city or a college town and you can't blame the officials at P&L who want to steer away from that kind of environment.

Brock
06-10-2009, 07:50 AM
"black dress sandals"

WTF. I was wearing a black dress T-shirt the other day.

Rooster
06-10-2009, 07:52 AM
GARBAGE.

That's ironic.

LaChapelle
06-10-2009, 07:53 AM
If they turn you away fuck 'em. It's overpriced and shallow anyway.

Deberg_1990
06-10-2009, 07:53 AM
Once again a dress code isn't racist.

The black people that want to dress up "hip hop" or what have you can change into different clothes and gain access to P&L.

Hip hop clothing style does nothing but cause trouble in a club setting. Always has, this is nothing new. It happens all the time whether its in a big city or a college town and you can't blame the officials at P&L who want to steer away from that kind of environment.

Whitlock is arguing he wasnt dressed hip hop:


"It was a ridiculous contention. I had on custom-made, black linen, crepe-weave shorts with a matching Tommy Bahama-style button-up shirt, black dress sandals and a black Kango hat"


"Once inside, we discovered all three of us were inappropriately dressed. We looked far too professional and classy. Seriously. That is not arrogance. The young, mostly white people inside the club dressed the way we did when we were young and financially strapped"

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 07:58 AM
Whitlock IS a "True professional". Must we list his accomplishments and employers again?

It's fine if you don't like him or his writings. But saying that he's not a "true professional" is completely disingenuous.

:spock:

You think Whitlock is a true pro? Let's not forget this is the same guy that made a homemade sign at a Pat's game sitting in the media section calling Drew Bledsoe gay. He even got suspended and is probably lucky not to be fired.

blaise
06-10-2009, 08:00 AM
I don't go down there, can somebody say whether they think these places are drawing good crowds or would you say they're fairly empty.

LaChapelle
06-10-2009, 08:05 AM
I don't go down there, can somebody say whether they think these places are drawing good crowds or would you say they're fairly empty.

If people are getting turned away. While others can get in and feel special for it. It's probably booming.

Nzoner
06-10-2009, 08:07 AM
I don't go down there, can somebody say whether they think these places are drawing good crowds or would you say they're fairly empty.

I was there the Friday before last,the public courtyard was packed,the piano bar was packed,The Shark Bar was meh,Angels rock bar was so-so and Lucky Strike was pitiful.

Nzoner
06-10-2009, 08:12 AM
My dress consisted of nice cargo shorts,a Mizzou button up shirt(the kind that has the logo,pics etc. on every inch of the shirt) not tucked in and a pair of Gap flip flops and I never once had any problems.

Deberg_1990
06-10-2009, 08:15 AM
My dress consisted of nice cargo shorts,a Mizzou button up shirt(the kind that has the logo,pics etc. on every inch of the shirt) not tucked in and a pair of Gap flip flops and I never once had any problems.


and this is exactly what JWhit is talking about.

There appears to be a double standard based on race.

blaise
06-10-2009, 08:18 AM
and this is exactly what JWhit is talking about.

There appears to be a double standard based on race.

Maybe this is a stupid question, but is Nzoner white or black?

Deberg_1990
06-10-2009, 08:21 AM
Maybe this is a stupid question, but is Nzoner white or black?


From the pics ive seen, he appears to be white.

CoMoChief
06-10-2009, 08:24 AM
I don't go down there, can somebody say whether they think these places are drawing good crowds or would you say they're fairly empty.

They do draw good crowds. LOTS of pussy.

Dottefan
06-10-2009, 08:25 AM
I have an Idea to settle this whole debate. How about we all decide to go down to the PL district in similar dress. Lets see who they let in and who they dont. We can agree to go next Friday or Saturday. If any one is interested in doing this ,just pm me and we can hopefully settle this debate.

Chiefnj2
06-10-2009, 08:33 AM
:spock:

You think Whitlock is a true pro? Let's not forget this is the same guy that made a homemade sign at a Pat's game sitting in the media section calling Drew Bledsoe gay. He even got suspended and is probably lucky not to be fired.

The same people who complain he is too negative about the Chiefs also love to hold Whitlock's defense of the Chiefs against him. That event happened 10 years ago. Do you think it's possible he's matured since then?

Dottefan
06-10-2009, 08:36 AM
Whitlock is arrogant , fat bastard, and he sucks....but you know who sucks worse? DENVER.

blaise
06-10-2009, 08:37 AM
The same people who complain he is too negative about the Chiefs also love to hold Whitlock's defense of the Chiefs against him. That event happened 10 years ago. Do you think it's possible he's matured since then?

I think he's grown since then.

blaise
06-10-2009, 08:37 AM
Whitlock is arrogant , fat bastard, and he sucks....but you know who sucks worse? DENVER.

Finally you and I agree on something.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-10-2009, 08:37 AM
Dress code is dress code. The question would seem to be whether or not it's selectively enforced with regards to the patrons, and what the bouncer is wearing is besides the point.

How so? Because while I completely agree with the dress code, it better be enforced regardless of race, creed, color, patron, employee, employer, everyone. You either tow that line, or you don't. And if you don't, this is the shit that happens.

Phobia
06-10-2009, 08:41 AM
:spock:

You think Whitlock is a true pro? Let's not forget this is the same guy that made a homemade sign at a Pat's game sitting in the media section calling Drew Bledsoe gay. He even got suspended and is probably lucky not to be fired.

That was a decade ago. I think we can let that one go by now.

Count Zarth
06-10-2009, 08:46 AM
Whitlock is legit. His work has appeared on WPI.

Phobia
06-10-2009, 08:50 AM
Whitlock is legit. His work has appeared on WPI.

Not by his choice. J thinks Nick is the biggest joke in town. It was because you guys can repost Fox Sports columns.

Count Zarth
06-10-2009, 08:51 AM
Not by his choice.

He had no choice! Mwa ha ha!

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 08:55 AM
The same people who complain he is too negative about the Chiefs also love to hold Whitlock's defense of the Chiefs against him. That event happened 10 years ago. Do you think it's possible he's matured since then?

No

That was a decade ago. I think we can let that one go by now.

Probably but I still wouldn't call him a "true professional".

Deberg_1990
06-10-2009, 08:56 AM
That was a decade ago. I think we can let that one go by now.

Agreed. Dude has worked for ESPN, 610, Fox Sports and argued with Oprah since then!

gblowfish
06-10-2009, 08:57 AM
I think he's grown since then.

Yes, he's approximately a foot wider.

blaise
06-10-2009, 09:04 AM
Yes, he's approximately a foot wider.

Exactly. I just didn't want to say it that way in case I offended Dane and Zach with too low brow a brand of humor for their refined tastes.

Mr. Krab
06-10-2009, 09:11 AM
wow, it didn't take long for this to to 200. :eek:

Dottefan
06-10-2009, 09:12 AM
So does anyone want to put this to the test or not. We can meet up in similar dress and see who they let in and who they dont. This would end the discusion once and for all............but Whitlock would still suck and I would still hate DENVER, that will never change

Lzen
06-10-2009, 09:14 AM
Honestly, I don't have a problem with JW's column. It is thought provoking while not blaming the white man entirely. He admits that the hip hop culture tends to bring an element that clubs don't want. I agree that they are trying to keep those bad elements out but are probably going about it the wrong way.

Dottefan
06-10-2009, 09:18 AM
Honestly, I don't have a problem with JW's column. It is thought provoking while not blaming the white man entirely. He admits that the hip hop culture tends to bring an element that clubs don't want. I agree that they are trying to keep those bad elements out but are probably going about it the wrong way.

Why do you keep thinking that some one is blaming the white man...I am asking because you said this in other post also. The man can be white, brown, black, yellow, or a woman..plus nobody uses that term anymore.