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Coogs
06-10-2009, 08:09 AM
http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/wednesday-cup-o%e2%80%99chiefs-2.html#more-9112

Wednesday Cup OíChiefs
June 10, 2009 - Bob Gretz |

Making assessments about a football team as it runs around in underwear during the month of June can be dangerous.

There is too much that can still happen in the football year, and thatís even before the teams head to training camp at the end of July. Throw in training camp and pre-season and there are a lot of players who will show themselves with an opening day roster spot, but they remain unknowns at this moment to media, fans and even sometimes the coaches. There are injuries, there are holdouts and there will be off-field incidents to come.

Taking all that into account, Iím going to go out on a limb here and predict that Chiefs fans are going to like this new Chiefs defense.

Based on what theyíve shown during the nine practices that have been open to the media, coordinator Clancy Pendergast (left) is loading up the kitchen sink with this defense. Pendergast is experimenting right now with personnel and schemes, but thereís one thing that comes through no matter what type of players are on the field. This defense is going to be an aggressive group that sometimes lines up in ways that have not been seen by Chiefs fans.

Over the weekend at mini-camp, the Chiefs were in a nickel-type defense where only one player had his hand on the ground for the snap of the ball. DE Tyson Jackson was in a two-point stance as he stood over the guard. Five other guys were also standing along the line of scrimmage. That was seven guys in the immediate grill of the quarterback. On one play, only four rushed. On the next it was five.

Before they were done, I swear there was a play where the Chiefs blitzed all 11 guys. Cornerbacks are coming off the corner. Safeties are flying up from the secondary. Linebackers are on pogo sticks, jumping up and back in various combinations.

On 1st-and-10, the Chiefs are lining up in the 3-4 defense but that might be the only play in a possession where they are in that alignment. When they got to a nickel, the nose tackle comes out and a cornerback comes in. Thatís when all sorts of things happen.

The premise is simple: limit the pre-snap information for the quarterback. Always have the offense wondering who is coming and who is dropping. Go hard, go fast and arrive in ill humor. Thereís nothing revolutionary here. Pendergast and his staff donít appear to be writing a new book on playing defense.

But if what we are watching right now is the approach, then they are going to go after the quarterback with multiple blitzes.

The big question is will they be blitzing because they want to cause confusion, or will they be blitzing because thatís the only way they can get to the quarterback?

The Chiefs had the most embarrassing pass rush in NFL history last season, pulling the passer down 10 times, a league record for sacking ineptitude. Pioli/Haley have not gone out and sought pass rushers to bulk up the roster. Instead, they are going to rely on a different coaching staff, different scheme and player development from within to improve the rush. Thatís a gamble on their part, especially if Pendergast has to generate a pass rush by gambling with the blitz.

With Arizona last year, Pendergast was not blitz crazy. One statistical service estimated the Cardinals blitzed 25 percent of the time in the 993 plays they faced on defense. Most of those came on second and third down plays when the opponent needed four to six yards for a first down.

How often the Chiefs will use the blitz remains to be seen. Thereís no question the Chiefs will have a lot of options in their defensive playbook, if they need to use them.

Again, itís June. Itís a new defensive coaching staff (save DL coach Tim Krumrie). Itís a new scheme. Itís a new head coach. There are a bunch of key new players in Jackson, Alex Magee, Zach Thomas, Mike Vrabel and Monty Beisel.

But thereís a look about this defense that provides hope that negative NFL records will not be set in the 2009 season.

Hog Farmer
06-10-2009, 08:28 AM
We could take 22 players off the street and get more than 10 sacks.

tomahawk kid
06-10-2009, 08:29 AM
Over the weekend at mini-camp, the Chiefs were in a nickel-type defense where only one player had his hand on the ground for the snap of the ball. DE Tyson Jackson was in a two-point stance as he stood over the guard. Five other guys were also standing along the line of scrimmage. That was seven guys in the immediate grill of the quarterback. On one play, only four rushed. On the next it was five.

Does this remind anyone else of that ignorant sh!t Greg Robinson used to run?

What was it called? The "Spinner" package?

milkman
06-10-2009, 08:41 AM
Does this remind anyone else of that ignorant sh!t Greg Robinson used to run?

What was it called? The "Spinner" package?

The "Spinner" was a zone package.

It had everyone but Redrum's mother and the Pope in coverage.

The QB could have ordered take-out while he was standing in the pocket.

Red Beans
06-10-2009, 08:59 AM
I for one will be happy to see the defense blitz a little...It's like Herm and the Cover two removed Gunther's balls the last couple of years...

KcFanInGA
06-10-2009, 09:11 AM
I for one will be happy to see the defense blitz a little...It's like Herm and the Cover two removed Gunther's balls the last couple of years...

Agreed. I like the sound of things for our defense so far. I just hope it translates into wins for us.

Fire Me Boy!
06-10-2009, 09:29 AM
Go hard, go fast and arrive in ill humor.

I like that.

Chiefnj2
06-10-2009, 09:30 AM
Sounds like Clancy is doing the same thing in KC that he did in AZ. I'm not too thrilled.

OnTheWarpath58
06-10-2009, 09:38 AM
Sounds like Clancy is doing the same thing in KC that he did in AZ. I'm not too thrilled.

And with less talent.

Doesn't excite me either, but the proof one way or the other will come on Sundays this fall.

I hope we're both wrong.

tomahawk kid
06-10-2009, 09:45 AM
The "Spinner" was a zone package.

It had everyone but Redrum's mother and the Pope in coverage.

The QB could have ordered take-out while he was standing in the pocket.

Thanks for the clarification.

I DID think he had some sort of formation that all 4 D line man were standing up - but I couldn't remember what it was called.

raybec 4
06-10-2009, 09:47 AM
I just can't imagine how they are even going to be in the top twenty defenses in the league, I hope I'm wrong.

Dave Lane
06-10-2009, 09:49 AM
Thanks for the clarification.

I DID think he had some sort of formation that all 4 D line man were standing up - but I couldn't remember what it was called.

A misplaced memory.

Detoxing
06-10-2009, 09:51 AM
I just can't imagine how they are even going to be in the top twenty defenses in the league, I hope I'm wrong.

I doubt they will be. At this point, let's just hope they can at least make some improvements, then worry about the top 20
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Buehler445
06-10-2009, 09:59 AM
And with less talent.

Doesn't excite me either, but the proof one way or the other will come on Sundays this fall.

I hope we're both wrong.

I'm pretty much thinking this also.

There was an article awhile back discussing the changing schemes and stuff and suggesting that Clancy is not what Pioli typically liked. I can't remember shit about the name of the thread, so I'm not going to search it, but it had some good points.

I think what I thought was most interesting about the article was tha it said as much mix it up stuff as BB threw out there, ther D was always good in the base package. Something AZ was not last year. The article also stated that since there were few expectations this year, Clancy could work on the base D and get the team solid. It doesn't appear that is going to happen.

Personally, I don't think this team is talented enough to overcome the weaknesses and seams that will come from blitzing a lot and throwing gimmicks out there. That's probably why Haley wants everyone in kickass shape, to be faster.

At a high level, I really like being flexible and attacking weaknesses of a team, but looking at the talent, they just need to be able to line up and beat people first, then we can go about confusing and killing fuckers. Looking at Pitt's D, they are confusing as fuck,but they still have the football ability to line up and beat you.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mr. Krab
06-10-2009, 10:14 AM
Over the weekend at mini-camp, the Chiefs were in a nickel-type defense where only one player had his hand on the ground for the snap of the ball. DE Tyson Jackson was in a two-point stance as he stood over the guard. Five other guys were also standing along the line of scrimmage. That was seven guys in the immediate grill of the quarterback. On one play, only four rushed. On the next it was five. (http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/wednesday-cup-o%e2%80%99chiefs-2.html#more-9112)New England runs this kind of stuff all the time.

The Bronco Rob
06-10-2009, 10:17 AM
"The Chiefs had the most embarrassing pass rush in NFL history last season, pulling the passer down 10 times, a league record for sacking ineptitude."






:LOL:

wasi
06-10-2009, 10:26 AM
Personally, I don't think this team is talented enough to overcome the weaknesses and seams that will come from blitzing a lot and throwing gimmicks out there. That's probably why Haley wants everyone in kickass shape, to be faster.


Posted via Mobile Device

Also according to the article nothing the Pendergast is doing is revolutionary, nor is he rewriting the book on playing defense. I know the quote is referring more to defensive attitude but trying to create pre-snap confusion for the QB is also pretty common. I don't know if I call tryin to do that a gimmick, it seems to make sense if the players can actually reset and get aligned right when the snap comes.

During last season, I recall Herm saying they would change the scheme to get more pressure by blitzing. However, I don't remember seeing many games where the defense did something that looked different from the previous game. So, I am welcoming the new style of defense, for it's versatility and attacking attitude.

If we are going to be loosing a lot next year, I'd rather see a team playing defense by taking the fight to the other teams offense rather than sitting back trying to cover. If nothing else, the defense will create some distruption that could lead to big plays and maybe steal a win or two.

Of course all of the scheming and confusion and blitzing isn't to do a damn thing if we can't stop the run and force the other team to throw. That comes from the base package which the article mentions is a base 34. That sounds different than the information earlier this offseason where the base was sounding like the under formation. I recall that during the weekends manitory camp Haley was really happy with the fact the defense got a lot of plays installed. Maybe so much so they are now in experimentation mode?

Rausch
06-10-2009, 10:46 AM
Good.

Gun didn't seem to comprehend the whole "confusion" idea.

We telegraphed blitzes, and if I had a dollar for every time someone came clean and then just fucking wiffed on a QB I'd have a winter home in Vegas.

This defense has talent. It's had different levels of talent for years. The problem has been how we've used it and what we asked those guys to do. A monkey with a machine gun should take over the whole tribe, but then again, he might just use it to dig up termites...

Buehler445
06-10-2009, 10:47 AM
Also according to the article nothing the Pendergast is doing is revolutionary, nor is he rewriting the book on playing defense. I know the quote is referring more to defensive attitude but trying to create pre-snap confusion for the QB is also pretty common. I don't know if I call tryin to do that a gimmick, it seems to make sense if the players can actually reset and get aligned right when the snap comes.

During last season, I recall Herm saying they would change the scheme to get more pressure by blitzing. However, I don't remember seeing many games where the defense did something that looked different from the previous game. So, I am welcoming the new style of defense, for it's versatility and attacking attitude.

If we are going to be loosing a lot next year, I'd rather see a team playing defense by taking the fight to the other teams offense rather than sitting back trying to cover. If nothing else, the defense will create some distruption that could lead to big plays and maybe steal a win or two.

Of course all of the scheming and confusion and blitzing isn't to do a damn thing if we can't stop the run and force the other team to throw. That comes from the base package which the article mentions is a base 34. That sounds different than the information earlier this offseason where the base was sounding like the under formation. I recall that during the weekends manitory camp Haley was really happy with the fact the defense got a lot of plays installed. Maybe so much so they are now in experimentation mode?

I agree with the attacking comments. It is critical that this team attacks. No defense can sit around and wait for mistakes. It just isn't viable anymore.

What I was referring to with the gimmick was the one down lineman bit.
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Rausch
06-10-2009, 10:53 AM
I agree with the attacking comments. It is critical that this team attacks. No defense can sit around and wait for mistakes. It just isn't viable anymore.

Exactly.

What I was referring to with the gimmick was the one down lineman bit.

I doubt that's something you see all that often. It's something to confuse the defense. It's like a WR reverse or flea flicker, you might see it once or twice a game...

BarrySPAMAID
06-10-2009, 10:53 AM
Good Cup O Chiefs Gretz. I too think that there will be no NFL records set against this defense in 2009. I look forward to a very competitive defense.

milkman
06-10-2009, 10:53 AM
A monkey with a machine gun should take over the whole tribe, but then again, he might just use it to dig up termites...

Send that monkey over to Hog Farmer's place.

ChiefMojo
06-10-2009, 09:38 PM
Actually this is a defensive philosophy that is extremely similar to New England and Pittsburgh. It has worked for them for years. Confuse the Offense/QB by crowding the line of scrimmage and have different people come any given plays. You don't know who is coming or who is dropping. This is nothing new, but probably is for many on this board. It is not a gimmick defense... it is just completely different than most pay attention to.

DaWolf
06-10-2009, 09:49 PM
Can't be any worse than the last 10 years...

Fruit Ninja
06-11-2009, 12:05 AM
Actually this is a defensive philosophy that is extremely similar to New England and Pittsburgh. It has worked for them for years. Confuse the Offense/QB by crowding the line of scrimmage and have different people come any given plays. You don't know who is coming or who is dropping. This is nothing new, but probably is for many on this board. It is not a gimmick defense... it is just completely different than most pay attention to.

This. Notice these 2 teams throw pretty much anyone at linebacker and they all succeed. They go somewhere else and they all fail. Its the scheme that is good. Cept for Porter, but i think Miami is running the same scheme over there as well.

aturnis
06-11-2009, 12:19 AM
This. Notice these 2 teams throw pretty much anyone at linebacker and they all succeed. They go somewhere else and they all fail. Its the scheme that is good. Cept for Porter, but i think Miami is running the same scheme over there as well.

Yep, switch a prolific 3-4 LB to a 4-3 and you might end up with Kendrell Bell...

Count Alex's Wins
06-11-2009, 12:29 AM
Anyone else getting GROB vibes off Pendergast?

58kcfan89
06-11-2009, 12:49 AM
Good.

Gun didn't seem to comprehend the whole "confusion" idea.

We telegraphed blitzes, and if I had a dollar for every time someone came clean and then just ****ing wiffed on a QB I'd have a winter home in Vegas.

This defense has talent. It's had different levels of talent for years. The problem has been how we've used it and what we asked those guys to do. A monkey with a machine gun should take over the whole tribe, but then again, he might just use it to dig up termites...

"This" on the entire post, but I definitely agree with the bolded part. This defense has talent, it's just that a lot of it is young/raw and needs [good] coaching (I know a lot of you are ready to give up on everyone on the D except the new faces, but I think there's still a lot of potential waiting there). I don't think the defense will be great this year, but as much as Pioli & Haley want to win now, there's still work to do.

I also love the gimmicky defensive stuff. Granted, if it doesn't work, it's annoying, but I love the thought of confusing a QB/OL at the LOS. I'm excited to see the 2009 Chiefs, a lot moreso than I have been for past versions*.


*Before you kill me & say "you should always be excited!!11!1!, real fans can't wait for the season!!11!1," etc., I am always excited to see the Chiefs take the field. But I can't remember a time that I was this giddy about seeing a Chiefs team, even if I don't expect to see the wins this season.

BarrySPAMAID
06-11-2009, 01:21 AM
Anyone else getting GROB vibes off Pendergast?

GROB?

Mr. Kotter
06-11-2009, 01:25 AM
GROB?

Greg Robinson....heh.

T-post Tom
06-11-2009, 02:02 AM
Like him or not: Gretz has stepped up and seems to have outperformed the other KC media in Chiefs' coverage this off-season.

Frosty
06-11-2009, 07:40 AM
Anyone else getting GROB vibes off Pendergast?

No. Pendergast's defenses in AZ were always very aggressive (sometimes too much as they would give up the big play). GROB was too passive.

BigRedChief
06-11-2009, 07:45 AM
Gretz thought our teams under Herm were great teams that just made a few mistakes, caught a bad break or two.

Fish
06-11-2009, 09:06 AM
Before they were done, I swear there was a play where the Chiefs blitzed all 11 guys. Cornerbacks are coming off the corner. Safeties are flying up from the secondary. Linebackers are on pogo sticks, jumping up and back in various combinations.
It's over fellas.... the LBs are hopping around like bunnies. They've done lost their damn minds....

BarrySPAMAID
06-11-2009, 10:56 AM
Ok, now that I get the "GROB" reference, .....

My answer is no. It took me a while to warm up to Clancy. I really didn't want to see Gunther go. And if your thinking about jumping in here, to take a shot at Gun, your wasting your time. Gun is one my hero's and there isn't one single person on this planet that will ever change my mind about him. The FACTs are simple. Herman Edwards and Gunther Cunningham HAD NO BUSINESS coaching together. They never saw eye to eye.

SO, having said that, Clancy was hard for me at first. But after reading about him further, and looking at Arizona's defense last year ( especially in the playoffs ) I am quite encouraged about the direction this new defense is headed.

penguinz
06-11-2009, 11:01 AM
Gunther has always been a result of his HC. From Marty all the way to Herm. I fully expect to see detroit have an improved D because Gunt will have Schwartz holding his hand.

RustShack
06-11-2009, 12:35 PM
SO, having said that, Clancy was hard for me at first. But after reading about him further, and looking at Arizona's defense last year ( especially in the playoffs ) I am quite encouraged about the direction this new defense is headed.

The Cardinals defense got good when their HC made them run a 3-4 defense, it wasn't good under the defense Clancy had/wanted to run.

CoMoChief
06-11-2009, 12:44 PM
Yep, switch a prolific 3-4 LB to a 4-3 and you might end up with Kendrell Bell...

Hey but Carl and Co. are historically known for tweening players into other positions.

BarrySPAMAID
06-11-2009, 06:07 PM
The Cardinals defense got good when their HC made them run a 3-4 defense, it wasn't good under the defense Clancy had/wanted to run.

How ironic?