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Deberg_1990
06-10-2009, 07:51 AM
http://royalsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/340






The Royals were the Jay Leno punchline three years ago. You probably don't need to be reminded of that.

In 2005, they completed a stretch of 210 losses in two seasons, a remarkable historical achievement in a sport where even playoff teams win less than 60 percent of their games.

In the 2 1/2 seasons leading up to Allard Baird's firing and Dayton Moore's hiring, the Royals had losing streaks of seven, eight (three times), nine, 13 and 19 games.

"Limited no-trade" clauses were invented so established players could avoid joining teams like the Royals of those years. They didn't take team pictures, didn't draft players who wanted more than $1,000, and didn't have a chance.

Things are different now. You probably don't need to be reminded of that, either.

But just how different?

Or, maybe this is a better question: are we far enough along to judge?

We wrote before the season that Moore's honeymoon period in Kansas City was over, that the days of blind faith had passed, and that a loyal fan base deserved to start seeing results.

The results so far are pretty brutal. This is Moore's third full season, so every player on the roster is either there because Moore acquired him or decided to keep him.

The Royals are operating in a new-ish stadium, almost entirely funded by taxpayers, with by far the biggest payroll in club history and they are on pace to lose more than 90 games. That would be a disaster. It could mean Trey Hillman's job, at least, and would certainly mean the heat on Moore turns up.

I still don't think the Royals are this bad. There is a long list of bad breaks outside of their control that have conspired to create a familiar and sinking feeling from fans.

Then again, Kyle Davies has been mostly disappointing.

* Though he was solid on Sunday in a hopeless effort against Roy Halladay.

Then again, Jose Guillen's bat isn't close to making up for his defense and contract.

Then again, shortstop is still a giant hole on this roster.

Each of these is Moore's issue. He targeted Davies for the Octavio Dotel trade, gave Guillen the highest annual salary in club history, and missed out on a major offseason acquisition for the middle infield.

Three years in, I think we can say that under Moore, the Royals have solidified their place in baseball and vastly improved their team, particularly the pitching staff.

We can also say that under Moore, the Royals have mostly failed to build even an average offense or defense, despite huge raises in resources that weren't available to previous GMs.

The important stuff is invisible right now. The important stuff is what the Royals are doing at the minor league level, and internationally.

The international market is loaded with talent this year*, and the Royals have promised to be aggressive in a year where the amateur draft appears weak and the team won't need $4 million to $6 million to sign their first-round pick.

* We'll have more on this in the paper.

It is -- still -- too early to make any big judgments about Moore and his work here, other than to say the Royals are in better big-picture shape than Moore found them, and that they are in far worse small-picture shape than most any of us expected.

What we're seeing at the big league level is just the appetizer to a main course that deservedly needs more time.

But 2010 has long been targeted by club officials as the year to really get serious in the standings, and that's rapidly approaching with a roster that won't offer much payroll coming off the books this winter, and a minor league system that doesn't offer many high-level prospects.

That's a big problem, and one that will start to get more attention from fans.

Royals fans are tired of being asked for patience. They've been patient. They want to see progress, and rightfully so.

The judgments on whether that's happening are coming in quick.

If the big league team doesn't improve and save this season from being a giant disappointment, fans won't be interested in more waiting or giving their faith in players in the low levels of the minor leagues.

BigCatDaddy
06-10-2009, 07:57 AM
FIRE TREY HILLMAN!

blaise
06-10-2009, 08:22 AM
FIRE TREY HILLMAN!

I don't mind if they do but I doubt it would matter.

Arsonist
06-10-2009, 08:41 AM
Fire Hillman and get rid of Teahen, Buck, Guillen, and Jacobs, spend some money to get a good DH.

BigCatDaddy
06-10-2009, 08:42 AM
I don't mind if they do but I doubt it would matter.

I have no doubt it would matter some. Would they be 500, probably not. But his lineups, bullpen moves, overal managing of games has been horrible.

Dr. Facebook Fever
06-10-2009, 08:45 AM
I have no doubt it would matter some. Would they be 500, probably not. But his lineups, bullpen moves, overal managing of games has been horrible.

I find myself wondering what bench coach John Gibbons could do. Probably not much... he didn't impress in the game he filled in for Hillman... but he was pretty good with Toronto.

BigCatDaddy
06-10-2009, 08:45 AM
Fire Hillman and get rid of Teahen, Buck, Guillen, and Jacobs, spend some money to get a good DH.

Hillman - Yes!

Teahan has good value as a 3rd baseman and you have Gordon coming back to you might get something for Mark.

Buck is okay as backup catcher, but he makes too much money for a backup catcher.

Guillen - See ya!

Jacobs - Servicable DH vs Righties

gblowfish
06-10-2009, 08:47 AM
Progress?

PROGRESS???????

You can get hit in the face with a frying pan only so many times before you learn to duck.
I'm done with these guys for this year. No desire to go to the K, don't care anymore.
KC fans deserve better than this dreck.

I put this on the Glass family. Too complacent in losing. It should tear up the fabric of their souls. It doesn't. It's just a business. They just don't give a rip

It PISSES ME OFF.

Dr. Facebook Fever
06-10-2009, 08:47 AM
Jacobs - Servicable DH vs Righties

If only we had the resources available to justify having a DH specialist for hitting against righties only.

Not being a prick btw just sayin.

Dr. Facebook Fever
06-10-2009, 08:49 AM
Progress?

PROGRESS???????

You can get hit in the face with a frying pan only so many times before you learn to duck.
I'm done with these guys for this year. No desire to go to the K, don't care anymore.
KC fans deserve better than this dreck.

I put this on the Glass family. Too complacent in losing. It should tear up the fabric of thier souls. It doesn't. It's just a business. They just don't give a rip

It PISSES ME OFF.

When they complete the greatest comeback in baseball history and go to the World Series, we'll remember how you said you were done with them

:p

Nice use of the word dreck btw.

gblowfish
06-10-2009, 08:51 AM
I was at their last World Series win in 1985. I was a young man then.
25 years later I'm middle aged and turning into an angry old man.

The Royals are the LA Clippers of baseball.

Arsonist
06-10-2009, 09:24 AM
Jacob's swing makes me want to throw up, lets get a real DH who can attempt to hit left and right handed pitchers. If Gordon comes back and can actually hit the ball then Teahen should be a no brainer to trade away.

Deberg_1990
06-10-2009, 09:37 AM
KC fans deserve better than this dreck.

I put this on the Glass family. Too complacent in losing. It should tear up the fabric of their souls. It doesn't. It's just a business. They just don't give a rip




Unfortunately this.....Sigh...

petegz28
06-10-2009, 09:41 AM
Jacobs sucks ass and needs to be the first to go. He made a weak ass 11+ ERA pticher who had walked more guys than he K'd look like a world beater on 4 pitches out of the zone last night. And when I say out of the zone I mean they were as close to the plate as Saturn is to the Sun.

Mr. Krab
06-10-2009, 09:46 AM
The Royals are spending enough money. This is on Moore,Hillman and our player scouting and development people.

gblowfish
06-10-2009, 09:50 AM
I did some quick figuring. This is just off the top of my head, no exhaustive searching.

The reason the Royals have sucked so bad for so long is two major reasons.
1) Talent evaluation. Poor drafts and poor choices for free agency.

2) Cheap. When they do have a good player, they won't pay to keep him.

Going back to 2001, just look at the pieces of excrement this team has trotted out in a Royals uniform. Right field and pitching has been an especially black hole:

Outfield
Mark Quinn
Juan Gonzalez
Michael Tucker
Aaron Guile
Chip Ambres
Terrence Long
Shane Costa
Reggie Sanders
Emil Brown
Joey Gathright

Infield
Neifi Perez
Ken Harvey
Aw-Hell B-Error-A
Carlos Febles
Desi Relaford
Justin Huber
Calvin Pickering
Tony Graffanino
Ruben Gotay
Ross Gload
Ryan Shealy

Catchers
Mike DiFelice
Jason LaRue

Pitchers
Ryan Buckvich
Run-Elvis Hernandez
Jason Grimsley
Jose Lima
Jimmy Gobble
Darrell May
Albie Lopez
Kyle Snyder
Brad Voyles
Eduardo Villacis
Joel Peralta
Brian Anderson
Mark Redmon
Luke Hudson
Odalis Perez
Mike Wood
Scott Ellarton
Brandon Duckworth
Jose DeLa Rosa
Hideo Nomo
Yasuhiko Yabuta
Brett Tomko

Jesus H. Thompson, what a list of stiffs. Unbelievable.

Now, here's a list of players who are still in baseball who are former Royals. Would ANY of these guys not be better than somebody currently on the roster?

Pitchers
Paul Byrd
Jeremy Affeldt
Mike MacDougal
DJ Carrasco
Octavio Dotel
Todd Wellemeyer
David Riske
Leo Nunez
JP Howell

Position Players
Raul Ibanez
Carlos Beltran
Johnny Damon
Jermaine Dye
Mark Ellis

This doesn't even take into effect serious financial drains, like Mike Sweeney, Jose Guillen and Gil Meche. Each of these guys have way under performed for what they've been paid.

Royals have no catcher, shortstop, or right fielder. All these positions are liabilities, and you can question third, left field and second this year too.

Holes everywhere. Absolutely no progress. Royals currently have the worst record in the American League. Only team in baseball that's worse is the Washington Nats.

How can this be acceptable by any measure?

Deberg_1990
06-10-2009, 09:58 AM
Holes everywhere. Absolutely no progress. Royals currently have the worst record in the American League. Only team in baseball that's worse is the Washington Nats.

How can this be acceptable by any measure?

But we have our lord and savior Dayton Moore! ROFL

Thanks for that George.

Its the same old sh*t dressed up in a different wrapper.

KCUnited
06-10-2009, 10:17 AM
Guile was Scanlon in blue.

cmh6476
06-10-2009, 12:06 PM
The Royals are spending enough money. This is on Moore,Hillman and our player scouting and development people.

I disagree with this. That's the one aspect that hasn't gotten here yet. Remember, it was the former staff that selected Hochevar and the entire 2006draft class. Until some of the guys like Moustakas, Hosmer & crow and some of the later picks from the '07 drafts on, it's not fair to blame any scouting and development issues on Moore's crew.

What we can evaluate are the players they've went out and added to improve the roster, like Meche, Jacobs, Guillen and Crisp.

This whole team kinda blows. You have to give Dayton at least another year or two and see what moves will be made and if the team shows any signs of improvement. And unfortunately, Hillman is also limited by the product they trot out on the field each and every night.

Arsonist
06-10-2009, 12:16 PM
kinda off topic, but how did our draft go?

DeezNutz
06-10-2009, 12:23 PM
I disagree with this. That's the one aspect that hasn't gotten here yet. Remember, it was the former staff that selected Hochevar and the entire 2006draft class. Until some of the guys like Moustakas, Hosmer & crow and some of the later picks from the '07 drafts on, it's not fair to blame any scouting and development issues on Moore's crew.

What we can evaluate are the players they've went out and added to improve the roster, like Meche, Jacobs, Guillen and Crisp.

This whole team kinda blows. You have to give Dayton at least another year or two and see what moves will be made and if the team shows any signs of improvement. And unfortunately, Hillman is also limited by the product they trot out on the field each and every night.

The Hochevar draft is on Moore. For two reasons:

1. I can't believe that he's taking the job as GM and stays "hands off" the most important selection in franchise history.
2. If he did stay "hands off," he's dumb as a motherfucker.

This current ML roster is a disaster, and Dayton is the one who assembled it. We largely know very little about how well he's been doing in the draft and in Latin America.

sportsman1
06-10-2009, 12:29 PM
kinda off topic, but how did our draft go?

It sucked. Everything sucks. The parking attendants suck. The ticket takers suck. The ushers suck, the Consessioneers suck.

Chocolate Hog
06-10-2009, 12:49 PM
This team has sucked for over 20 years why is anyone surprised they suck yet again?

Rooster
06-10-2009, 12:59 PM
Its the same old sh*t dressed up in a different wrapper.

I do like the powder blue wrapper though. :evil:

wild1
06-10-2009, 01:04 PM
The royals have improved by 6 or 7 every year for the last couple of years. This has only happened a few times in baseball history. They turned over half the roster from last year. They are in the process of remodeling the entire organization.

Wonder of wonders, they still have some holes. Who would have thought you can't build a contender in two years.

A side effect of the team sucking for 20 years is that by and large the fans in the city don't know anything about baseball now.

Chocolate Hog
06-10-2009, 01:07 PM
The royals have improved by 6 or 7 every year for the last couple of years. This has only happened a few times in baseball history. They turned over half the roster from last year. They are in the process of remodeling the entire organization.

Wonder of wonders, they still have some holes. Who would have thought you can't build a contender in two years.

A side effect of the team sucking for 20 years is that by and large the fans in the city don't know anything about baseball now.

So instead of losing 100 games every year they are losing 90 every year. George Brett said the same argument about the city & Trey Hillman whats the Royals record since that statment?

Deberg_1990
06-10-2009, 01:18 PM
The royals have improved by 6 or 7 every year for the last couple of years. This has only happened a few times in baseball history. They turned over half the roster from last year. They are in the process of remodeling the entire organization.

Wonder of wonders, they still have some holes. Who would have thought you can't build a contender in two years.

A side effect of the team sucking for 20 years is that by and large the fans in the city don't know anything about baseball now.


So you are satisfied with the teams overall performance this year then?

This is what George was talking about a earlier....

The Royals have been bad for so long now, most fans just accept it. The People of KC should be outraged.

DeezNutz
06-10-2009, 01:22 PM
The royals have improved by 6 or 7 every year for the last couple of years. This has only happened a few times in baseball history. They turned over half the roster from last year. They are in the process of remodeling the entire organization.

Wonder of wonders, they still have some holes. Who would have thought you can't build a contender in two years.

A side effect of the team sucking for 20 years is that by and large the fans in the city don't know anything about baseball now.

Ok. Yeah.

In '05 the team lost a franchise record 106 games. '06 = 100 losses.

Call this a fucking wash. If you lose 100 games, you suck complete fucking shit.

'07 the team lost 93 games. Marginally better. Stress on the marginally because 90-some odd losses is still fucking terrible.

Last season was the only true sign of improvement: 75-87. Still suck, but at least respectable.

Most regulars on this board concede that the team was essentially starting from scratch. But nice job painting all of the fans with a broad brush.

Oh, and the team is on pace to lose 90-some odd games this year. Shocking that people are pissed.

Chocolate Hog
06-10-2009, 01:24 PM
The voters voted for the new stadium so the team could improve by 6 games.

wild1
06-10-2009, 01:27 PM
So instead of losing 100 games every year they are losing 90 every year. George Brett said the same argument about the city & Trey Hillman whats the Royals record since that statment?

they improved by more than 5 games for three years in a row. that has only happened about 20 times. so, comparing the team to baseball's history, their rebuilding effort over the last 3-4 years has been going extremely well.

now they have hit a rough patch so all the knee-jerkers come out of the woodwork. it's a third of the way through the season. but i actually bought a ticket this year, where's my world series ring! why don't they hit a home run every inning! but they didn't win last night... we built them a new stadium and they didn't win last night... boo hooo hooo

so what? Did you think this offense was going to be great? How is Hillman supposed to win games when the offense gets shut out every other night?

The team still has holes. It's light years better than they were when they lost 110 games or whatever just a couple of years ago. There's no way to argue that - unless you focus on a couple of weeks without full context, the team is headed in the right direction and is on the way up.

I know that on RBI baseball you could take any team and win the world series but in the real world it takes a long time to build an organization from the ground up.

Deberg_1990
06-10-2009, 01:29 PM
The team still has holes. It's light years better than they were when they lost 110 games or whatever just a couple of years ago.




Please explain to me how they are "lightyears" better than a couple of years ago.

wild1
06-10-2009, 01:31 PM
Please explain to me how they are "lightyears" better than a couple of years ago.

They're 20 f*cking games better than they were 3 years ago. Does that not register with you?

jbwm89
06-10-2009, 01:32 PM
it is not hard to improve by 5 or more games every year when you are starting with 103 losses. It is not like many teams have consistently been this bad the last twenty years. If your a .500 team 5 or more games is good. If you suck it still sucks.

Chocolate Hog
06-10-2009, 01:32 PM
they improved by more than 5 games for three years in a row. that has only happened about 20 times. so, comparing the team to baseball's history, their rebuilding effort over the last 3-4 years has been going extremely well.

now they have hit a rough patch so all the knee-jerkers come out of the woodwork. it's a third of the way through the season. but i actually bought a ticket this year, where's my world series ring! why don't they hit a home run every inning! but they didn't win last night... we built them a new stadium and they didn't win last night... boo hooo hooo

so what? Did you think this offense was going to be great? How is Hillman supposed to win games when the offense gets shut out every other night?

The team still has holes. It's light years better than they were when they lost 110 games or whatever just a couple of years ago.

I know that on RBI baseball you could take any team and win the world series but in the real world it takes a long time to build an organization from the ground up.


It's not exactly a knee jerk when the team has sucked for 20 years 4 of those years Dayton Moore was in charged. We were suppose to know the offense sucked? Thats why he traded 2 relief pitchers for guy who was suppose to hit homeruns and the other was suppose to get on base. Whats even more laughable is Dayton Moore hires Kevin Seizter cause he was such a good hitting coach. Also look at the trades Dayton Moore has made. His contract is up next year and this team hasn't even been close to .500 like they said they would do the last few seasons.

jbwm89
06-10-2009, 01:36 PM
we are light years away from losing 103 games, but we are 4 or 5 light years away from contending.....no one is saying we have not improved, but there is no way we have improved enough that we should be happy with the way things are going

wild1
06-10-2009, 01:36 PM
It's not exactly a knee jerk when the team has sucked for 20 years 4 of those years Dayton Moore was in charged. We were suppose to know the offense sucked? Thats why he traded 2 relief pitchers for guy who was suppose to hit homeruns and the other was suppose to get on base. Whats even more laughable is Dayton Moore hires Kevin Seizter cause he was such a good hitting coach. Also look at the trades Dayton Moore has made. His contract is up next year and this team hasn't even been close to .500 like they said they would do the last few seasons.

They won 75 games last year. That's .462, which is somewhere close to .500 don't you think.

It is hilarious that "fans" who have (supposedly) been supporting the most moribund franchise in sports can see them get within a hair's breadth of 500 ball, in the sport where it is the hardest to do and takes the longest to do, and then all of a sudden they think they are Yankees fans. They don't make the playoffs this year and want everyone fired.

Deberg_1990
06-10-2009, 01:37 PM
we are light years away from losing 103 games, but we are 4 or 5 light years away from contending.....no one is saying we have not improved, but there is no way we have improved enough that we should be happy with the way things are going


This.

Chocolate Hog
06-10-2009, 01:39 PM
They won 75 games last year. That's .462, which is somewhere close to .500 don't you think.

It is hilarious that "fans" who have (supposedly) been supporting the most moribund franchise in sports can see them get within a hair's breadth of 500 ball, in the sport where it is the hardest to do and takes the longest to do, and then all of a sudden they think they are Yankees fans. They don't make the playoffs this year and want everyone fired.

Yea those Royals teams in the 90's that won 77 were only a few years away too. You're using the same talking points when the fact is this team will never be competitve until it's sold or moved. They've sucked for so long and the one constant has been the owner.

jbwm89
06-10-2009, 01:39 PM
last year was somewhere close to .500, this year obviously is not, which is prompting all the frustration. If we were somewhere around there this year i think everyone would be disappointed, the problem is that we are seemingly headed in the wrong direction and that is frustrating

Bowser
06-10-2009, 01:43 PM
This year is going to suck. Next year will be OK. Two years from now we'll be close. Three years from now we'll be contending.

wild1
06-10-2009, 01:45 PM
Yea those Royals teams in the 90's that won 77 were only a few years away too. You're using the same talking points when the fact is this team will never be competitve until it's sold or moved. They've sucked for so long and the one constant has been the owner.

The owner who bought the team in what, 2000, has been the one constant since the early 90s?

DeezNutz
06-10-2009, 01:53 PM
The owner who bought the team in what, 2000, has been the one constant since the early 90s?

What?

Bowser
06-10-2009, 02:00 PM
What?

I think he is referring to Glass being on the board since the Kauffman days.

DeezNutz
06-10-2009, 02:09 PM
I think he is referring to Glass being on the board since the Kauffman days.

It sounded like he didn't know that. As if Glass only fairly recently has had a major hand in shaping the direction of the franchise.

sportsman1
06-10-2009, 02:11 PM
Well look at Wal-Mart. They are the discount leader. Not the leader in quality merchandise. Philosophy goes hand in hand.

gblowfish
06-10-2009, 02:13 PM
The biggest thing for me this year is crushed expectations. Just when you think they're making progress, they fall flat on their faces again. Kind of like a junkie that relapses over and over and over again.

Eventually you get flat out angry because they keep failing over and over.
Some never recover. Fans have been waiting over 20 years for results.

Between the Chiefs and The Royals, it truly takes a great deal of stamina and loyalty to follow these losers and have any genuine emotional investment in how they progress.

DeezNutz
06-10-2009, 02:23 PM
The biggest thing for me this year is crushed expectations. Just when you think they're making progress, they fall flat on their faces again. Kind of like a junkie that relapses over and over and over again.

Eventually you get flat out angry because they keep failing over and over.
Some never recover. Fans have been waiting over 20 years for results.

Between the Chiefs and The Royals, it truly takes a great deal of stamina and loyalty to follow these losers and have any genuine emotional investment in how they progress.

Agreed. 100 percent.

googlegoogle
06-10-2009, 02:50 PM
We spent money. We didn't get the guys we wanted but atleast we are really trying.

These guys are at the bottom now just like they were no.1 once. This team will be up and down. That's baseball.

I say .500 record. Just relax. Bats will heat up and the pitching gets better.

Deberg_1990
06-10-2009, 03:01 PM
KC Royals: Last playoff appearance 1985

Florida Marlins: Been in existence since 1993. 2 World Series Titles

Devil Rays: Been in existence since 1998: 1 World Series appearance

Colorado Rockies: Been in existence since 1993: A couple of playoff appearances. 1 World Series appearance.


Sad, sad franchise...

Bowser
06-10-2009, 03:01 PM
It's great that the Royals spend a bit more money, but I would like to see them have around a 90 mil payroll.

petegz28
06-10-2009, 03:07 PM
It's great that the Royals spend a bit more money, but I would like to see them have around a 90 mil payroll.

I agree and have said that they are going to have to come around to the fact that it is going to tke a $90mil-$100mil payroll. And given the attendance they have been getting this year that is certainly not out of the realm of being feasible. This town has shown it will support a team. It is time for the ownership to support the fans.

wild1
06-10-2009, 03:09 PM
Devil Rays: Been in existence since 1998: 1 World Series Title


I don't remember the Rays winning the Series, where have I been?

Another uber educated dayton moore detractor...

Bowser
06-10-2009, 03:11 PM
I agree and have said that they are going to have to come around to the fact that it is going to tke a $90mil-$100mil payroll. And given the attendance they have been getting this year that is certainly not out of the realm of being feasible. This town has shown it will support a team. It is time for the ownership to support the fans.

Yeah, the Glass family has held this team back, and that's an understatement most people already know. What they haven't learned quite yet is that if you have a team that actually wins, you may just be able to pocket more money than what you projected to at the beginning of the year.

And really, at this point, I think the attendance is more about people hanging out at the new park than actually pulling for the team (and if it's not like that yet, it soon will be if the Royals keep spiraling down).

DeezNutz
06-10-2009, 03:13 PM
Tell me how successful Moore has been with player trades? How about FA signings? Meche and who else? What about stressing OBP? Fundamentals? Has he worked on building a roster that reflects these points of emphasis?

We're all hoping he's doing a great job with the draft and in Latin America, and maybe this is the case. But what we can see hasn't been that great, which makes it difficult to operate on blind faith.

You think they went almost entirely with college players early in the draft because he isn't feeling a sense of urgency?

gblowfish
06-10-2009, 03:35 PM
I don't remember the Rays winning the Series, where have I been?

Another uber educated dayton moore detractor...

He means one WS appearance. That's 50% as much as the Royals, and certainly better recent results.

How many teams have had a longer World Series Drought than KC?
The Cubs? Montreal/Washington DC? Pittsburgh? I think just about everybody has made a world series appearance except these three since 1985. If there are other teams, it ain't very many.

wild1
06-10-2009, 03:42 PM
He means one WS appearance. That's 50% as much as the Royals, and certainly better recent results.


I love this. One of the only 30 game improvements in the history of baseball is now the measuring stick of what constitutes success.

There are 30 teams, and only 9 have won the series since the strike, which is when the current era of baseball could be considered to have begun.

gblowfish
06-10-2009, 03:44 PM
I mean Tampa Bay has been to one World Series.
The Royals have been to two World Series.

So, that's 50% as much success as a franchise for Tampa.

Tampa has been much better at building a contender, in arguably the toughest division in baseball.

The Royals are in arguably the weakest division in baseball, and are in the cellar, worst record in the American League.

What do these guys have to do, how far do The Royals to slide, for anybody to get pissed off about it any more?

DeezNutz
06-10-2009, 03:45 PM
I love this. One of the only 30 game improvements in the history of baseball is now the measuring stick of what constitutes success.

No. But their drafts, trades, and acquisitions have certainly been better than KC's in the past several years.

Both teams have been drafting very high, but the Rays have stars. Longoria himself is greater than everyone on the Royals roster or in the entire organization save Greinke.

keg in kc
06-10-2009, 04:31 PM
They had to rebuild the entire minor league system, and until the team's populated with Dayton Moore draftees, instead of inherited Allard Baird picks and whatever free agent leftovers they can coax to come here, it's too early. I'd even say 2010 is too early.

petegz28
06-10-2009, 04:42 PM
Tell me how successful Moore has been with player trades? How about FA signings? Meche and who else? What about stressing OBP? Fundamentals? Has he worked on building a roster that reflects these points of emphasis?

We're all hoping he's doing a great job with the draft and in Latin America, and maybe this is the case. But what we can see hasn't been that great, which makes it difficult to operate on blind faith.

You think they went almost entirely with college players early in the draft because he isn't feeling a sense of urgency?

Well other thane Meche...

Locking up Soria=good
Locking up Greinke=good
Crisp=good signing
Guillen=Good but ....
Jacobs=terrible
HoRam=bad
Arbitration with Buck=bad
Wright=meh
Cruz=meh
Bloomquist=good
Callaspo=meh-good
Olivo=meh
Hochevar=bust
Davies=meh-not so good
not trading Mayhay=bad
not trading Teahen=bad
Hillman=very not good
Farnsworth=meh-overpaid but might be ok

Deberg_1990
06-10-2009, 04:50 PM
I love this. One of the only 30 game improvements in the history of baseball is now the measuring stick of what constitutes success.

There are 30 teams, and only 9 have won the series since the strike, which is when the current era of baseball could be considered to have begun.

We could sit here and argue semantics all day long.


You cant possibly sit here and tell me you are happy about the state of the team this year? Can you???

Bowser
06-10-2009, 05:04 PM
What Trey Hillman has to work with this year -

a) Two backup catchers, one on the DL
b) A DH overachieving at playing first base
c) A utility guy playing everyday at second
d) No shortstop
e) A thirdbaseman that should be at second after leaving third to go play the outfield while he subs for the injured thirdbaseman
f) A centerfielder with a bum shoulder
g) A right fielder with no range
h) A bullpen that has seemingly been figured out by the rest of the league
i) A once dominant closer trying to work his way back after injury
j) Two legit starters in the rotation
k) A lineup that has zero pop

I think it's safe to say that the 2010 Royals are going to be radically different from the 2009 version. To achieve that, the Royals must do two things - 1) spend even more money than they did last year, and 2) hope some of the young up and comers might be ready to make the jump to the bigs (which I'm not counting on. 2011 is going to be the earliest this team makes any noise).

leviw
06-10-2009, 05:16 PM
They had to rebuild the entire minor league system, and until the team's populated with Dayton Moore draftees, instead of inherited Allard Baird picks and whatever free agent leftovers they can coax to come here, it's too early. I'd even say 2010 is too early.

This is the truth. When Moore took over this team there was absolutely nothing in the minors. Now, thanks to a few drafts, there is next to nothing. It's progress, but it takes painful patience to understand it.

Mike Moustakas, Moore's first pick, MIGHT get to AA for this season's second half. Eric Hosmer is a year behind him. Crow, yesterday's pick, is probably two years out. Those guys, plus guys like Tim Melville, are the future.

Until they get to the Bigs, it's a waiting game where casual fans have to sit and watch 162 games with pieces Moore put in place as a bridge to at least try and be competitive until crucial years like 2010 and 2011. If you remember, he's pursued the likes of Torii Hunter and Orlando Hudson. Big-time players who were flattered by the offers but not only wanted more money than the Royals would give but wanted a winning atmosphere that hasn't been in KC for more than two decades.

The losing environment is going to be a tough stigma to shed as Moore pursues future free agents. But the hope is these free agents won't be the cornerstones of the franchise in two-three years, it will be guys like Hosmer, Moustakas, Gordon and Butler.

Meanwhile, as Moore tries to pice together a team that won't embarrass the city, his starting third baseman who was entering a crucial year three of his career gets hurt, and his all-star closer goes down. The No. 3 starter, a guy you hope will complement Meche and Greinke doesn't carry over his best stuff from last September. The bullpen isn't as strong as it was early on, Guillen is inconsistent at best, Jacobs is batting too high in the order and Aviles has been hurt/not as good as last year.

And the list goes much longer than that.

It's a mess. And it's not fun. But it's all part of a process of climbing from the deepest depth of MLB suckage.

Of course if Hosmer, Moustakas and the likes suck, and the young holdovers like Gordon, Hochevar and Butler never develop... well then it's time for Moore to go.

Patience is a virtue, folks.

leviw
06-10-2009, 05:18 PM
We could sit here and argue semantics all day long.


You cant possibly sit here and tell me you are happy about the state of the team this year? Can you???

This is why 18-11 hurt the perception of this team more than it helped.

Look at this roster in spring training, and knowing the talent on Detroit and Cleveland's roster, why would anyone think the Royals could compete?

petegz28
06-10-2009, 05:20 PM
What Trey Hillman has to work with this year -

a) Two backup catchers, one on the DL
b) A DH overachieving at playing first base
c) A utility guy playing everyday at second
d) No shortstop
e) A thirdbaseman that should be at second after leaving third to go play the outfield while he subs for the injured thirdbaseman
f) A centerfielder with a bum shoulder
g) A right fielder with no range
h) A bullpen that has seemingly been figured out by the rest of the league
i) A once dominant closer trying to work his way back after injury
j) Two legit starters in the rotation
k) A lineup that has zero pop

I think it's safe to say that the 2010 Royals are going to be radically different from the 2009 version. To achieve that, the Royals must do two things - 1) spend even more money than they did last year, and 2) hope some of the young up and comers might be ready to make the jump to the bigs (which I'm not counting on. 2011 is going to be the earliest this team makes any noise).



All of that is no excuse for doing stupid things like batting Jacobs againt a LHP and benching him against a RHP. Or pinch running for your two best hitters in a tie game in the 7th inning at the same time....etc. etc. etc

Sure-Oz
06-10-2009, 05:26 PM
I bet Crow gets the call next year

wild1
06-10-2009, 05:27 PM
We could sit here and argue semantics all day long.


You cant possibly sit here and tell me you are happy about the state of the team this year? Can you???

Am I happy with the last month? Of course not.

Am I happy with where the team is today versus the day Allard Baird was fired? More than.

gblowfish
06-10-2009, 07:59 PM
I guess screaming at these guys all day today finally got their attention.
I had to wear my Cleveland Indians T-Shirt and Washington Nats hat tonight to break the jinx. It worked.

duncan_idaho
06-10-2009, 08:28 PM
This is the truth. When Moore took over this team there was absolutely nothing in the minors. Now, thanks to a few drafts, there is next to nothing. It's progress, but it takes painful patience to understand it.

Mike Moustakas, Moore's first pick, MIGHT get to AA for this season's second half. Eric Hosmer is a year behind him. Crow, yesterday's pick, is probably two years out. Those guys, plus guys like Tim Melville, are the future.

Until they get to the Bigs, it's a waiting game where casual fans have to sit and watch 162 games with pieces Moore put in place as a bridge to at least try and be competitive until crucial years like 2010 and 2011. If you remember, he's pursued the likes of Torii Hunter and Orlando Hudson. Big-time players who were flattered by the offers but not only wanted more money than the Royals would give but wanted a winning atmosphere that hasn't been in KC for more than two decades.

The losing environment is going to be a tough stigma to shed as Moore pursues future free agents. But the hope is these free agents won't be the cornerstones of the franchise in two-three years, it will be guys like Hosmer, Moustakas, Gordon and Butler.

Meanwhile, as Moore tries to pice together a team that won't embarrass the city, his starting third baseman who was entering a crucial year three of his career gets hurt, and his all-star closer goes down. The No. 3 starter, a guy you hope will complement Meche and Greinke doesn't carry over his best stuff from last September. The bullpen isn't as strong as it was early on, Guillen is inconsistent at best, Jacobs is batting too high in the order and Aviles has been hurt/not as good as last year.

And the list goes much longer than that.

It's a mess. And it's not fun. But it's all part of a process of climbing from the deepest depth of MLB suckage.

Of course if Hosmer, Moustakas and the likes suck, and the young holdovers like Gordon, Hochevar and Butler never develop... well then it's time for Moore to go.

Patience is a virtue, folks.

:toast:

Your post sums up my feelings about Moore exactly. This organization as a whole was such a mess when when he took over, it was going to take him some time to get things turned around. That Gordon has not panned out so far and Butler really hasn't either has only made his job more difficult.

BWillie
06-10-2009, 09:08 PM
I really can't fault this one on Glass this year, yeah, he's been cheap in the past, but he's finally spending enough money to be competitive. Face it, this is the Kansas City Royals. They aren't the LA Royals, they aren't the Chicago Royals, NY Royals or Houston Royals. They are a small market team. For you people to expect them to spend more than most of the teams is just not feasible. There are alot of small market teams that have been successful. Minnesota Twins come to mind. Now that is a well run organization.