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View Full Version : Food and Drink A New Competition BBQ strategy...


Stewie
06-10-2009, 02:37 PM
I disregarded this team of competitive BBQers that do not slow cook meat, but smoke hot and fast.... UNTIL NOW!!! They just won their 4th Grand Championship in a sanctioned KC BBQ Society event. That's freaking impressive. Their team name is "Rubbin-It-And-Loving-It." They never start smoking before 7am the day of the judging. That means the meat is on the smoker no more than about 4-1/2 hours (including brisket), probably less. They say it's all in how they prep the meat. Man, I'd like to know their secret. It sure would save alot of time and charcoal/wood.

cdcox
06-10-2009, 02:40 PM
Is there a link to additional info on this team? I don't really want to google "Rubbin-It-And-Loving-It" from work.

SPchief
06-10-2009, 02:42 PM
Is there a link to additional info on this team? I don't really want to google "Rubbin-It-And-Loving-It" from work.

Come on, that isn't standard practice at work?

Stewie
06-10-2009, 02:43 PM
Is there a link to additional info on this team? I don't really want to google "Rubbin-It-And-Loving-It" from work.

Not that I know about. They are from Shawnee, KS. That's all I got. And yeah, I wouldn't google that from work either.

tooge
06-10-2009, 02:44 PM
It would be nice to not have to get up at 5am to start a brisket for dinner.

KCUnited
06-10-2009, 02:45 PM
Ed Mitchell does his ribs hot and fast.

tooge
06-10-2009, 02:51 PM
I've heard of doing butts and brisket at 350 to 500 degrees foiled. Not sure if they are smoked for a short time before foiling or after at a lower temp. I read on the bbq forum that it can take as little as 3 1/2 hours for a butt at those temps. I like the long slow burn method though. More time for conversation and beer consumption.

Fish
06-10-2009, 02:54 PM
How would you get drunk if it only took that long?

BigVE
06-10-2009, 02:55 PM
I know of a guy who does it this way also and I was SHOCKED when he gave me some of his brisket...it was some of best I've had. Also I remember an old episode on the Food Network where Bobby Flay used that method too...he didn't win the challenge but everyone loved his ribs. Interesting.

AustinChief
06-10-2009, 02:55 PM
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/jun/07/lawrence-bbq-duo-grills-competition-mclouth-contes/?city_local

Stewie
06-10-2009, 02:56 PM
I've heard of doing butts and brisket at 350 to 500 degrees foiled. Not sure if they are smoked for a short time before foiling or after at a lower temp. I read on the bbq forum that it can take as little as 3 1/2 hours for a butt at those temps. I like the long slow burn method though. More time for conversation and beer consumption.

I would bet they are smoked the first hour (when 90% of the flavor is infused) and cooked in foil for the remainder of the time, but who knows? They emphasized the way they prep the meat. I've been running that through my mind and it has to be some way to tenderize the meat (especially brisket).

Halfcan
06-10-2009, 02:57 PM
I slow cook my brisket and ribs in a crock pot the night before then smoke them for about 3-4 hours. Tender as hell.

tooge
06-10-2009, 03:10 PM
Ok, found it. Basically, you cook the brisket unfoiled at 325 to 350 for an hour. then double foil it and cook another 1.5 hours at which time the internal temp should be about 190. Take it off the smoker and into a hot box (cooler) for 2 more hours. Slice. They talked about a guy named Myron Mixon that first started it, and he injected different things at different times during the process. That must be what they mean by meat prep.

cdcox
06-10-2009, 03:45 PM
Ok, found it. Basically, you cook the brisket unfoiled at 325 to 350 for an hour. then double foil it and cook another 1.5 hours at which time the internal temp should be about 190. Take it off the smoker and into a hot box (cooler) for 2 more hours. Slice. They talked about a guy named Myron Mixon that first started it, and he injected different things at different times during the process. That must be what they mean by meat prep.

I guess this makes sense. My mom used to do an oven brisket (flat only) at around 325 for several hours. The times used by this group add up to about what she used to do: 1+1.5+2 = 4.5 hours. Hers didn't have much smoke flavor (except maybe some liquid smoke) but it was extremely tender and not dry at all.

I'm guessing the 2 hour rest at the end is to allow time for the fat liquefy.

I'm already using foil on my briskets toward the end to bring the temp up faster and to keep 'em from drying out. I may try experimenting with hotter temperatures to speed things up. I don't think I'll go to the extremes used here. If I could eat 8 hrs after putting it on, I'd be good.

Mr. Kotter
06-10-2009, 04:20 PM
Interesting link...

http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/Rankings/powerrankings25.cfm

Baby Lee
06-10-2009, 04:39 PM
enzymes!!

bevischief
06-10-2009, 06:17 PM
You forgot the secret ingredient of antifreeze.

cdcox
07-03-2009, 08:50 AM
Okay, I'm doing a brisket today and experimenting a bit with this strategy.

I have about an 8 lb brisket, before I trimmed the fat off (normally leave it on). I gave it a good overnight coating of rub.

Started the fire at 8 AM (Eastern). Brisket went on around 9:00. I've been keeping the temp around 290 - 310 at grill level. Heavy on the smoke.

Will foil it soon, once the temp of the meat gets to 150 or so. I'll take it to 195 rather slowly then let it sit for an hour or two.

RJ
07-03-2009, 09:11 AM
Okay, I'm doing a brisket today and experimenting a bit with this strategy.

I have about an 8 lb brisket, before I trimmed the fat off (normally leave it on). I gave it a good overnight coating of rub.

Started the fire at 8 AM (Eastern). Brisket went on around 9:00. I've been keeping the temp around 290 - 310 at grill level. Heavy on the smoke.

Will foil it soon, once the temp of the meat gets to 150 or so. I'll take it to 195 rather slowly then let it sit for an hour or two.


cd, how much, if any, fat did you leave?

What type of wood are you using?

cdcox
07-03-2009, 09:19 AM
cd, how much, if any, fat did you leave?

What type of wood are you using?

Very little of the cap. I wanted the smoke to penetrate the meat.

A little hickory, but mostly apple. This is the apple tree that Phil and FMB! cut down a couple years ago. I traded Phil a 12-pack of beer for some of it. I've only BBQ'd half-a-dozen times since then, so I still have some left. Really nice smoking wood.

cdcox
07-03-2009, 10:46 AM
Well, that went fast.

After about 3 hours it was up to 150. Wrapped it in foil and an hour later it's near temp. I'll take it out in a few minutes and store it in the playmate wrapped in towels till we eat, around 4PM EST.

Brisket
Hot German potato salad
Corn on the Cob (silkless huskon method)
Sliced Tomatoes
Cherry Pie and ice cream

KCUnited
07-03-2009, 10:49 AM
Well, that went fast.

After about 3 hours it was up to 150. Wrapped it in foil and an hour later it's near temp. I'll take it out in a few minutes and store it in the playmate wrapped in towels till we eat, around 4PM EST.

Brisket
Hot German potato salad
Corn on the Cob (silkless huskon method)
Sliced Tomatoes
Cherry Pie and ice cream
Not to derail, but I would be interested in seeing your Hot German potato salad recipe.

JASONSAUTO
07-03-2009, 11:35 AM
Not to derail, but I would be interested in seeing your Hot German potato salad recipe.

me too

RJ
07-03-2009, 12:27 PM
Very little of the cap. I wanted the smoke to penetrate the meat.

A little hickory, but mostly apple. This is the apple tree that Phil and FMB! cut down a couple years ago. I traded Phil a 12-pack of beer for some of it. I've only BBQ'd half-a-dozen times since then, so I still have some left. Really nice smoking wood.



That was a good investment of a 12 pack.

Did you spray or baste the brisket during cooking? Did it cook directly on the grate or in a foil pan? I ask because I've done that using a brisket with little fat.

Make sure to post after dinner, I want to hear the results.

Fried Meat Ball!
07-03-2009, 01:31 PM
Very little of the cap. I wanted the smoke to penetrate the meat.

A little hickory, but mostly apple. This is the apple tree that Phil and FMB! cut down a couple years ago. I traded Phil a 12-pack of beer for some of it. I've only BBQ'd half-a-dozen times since then, so I still have some left. Really nice smoking wood.

I burned through that stuff pretty fast. Good stuff. Also went through my parents' wild cherry pretty quick.

cdcox
07-03-2009, 02:26 PM
Hot German potato salad:

4 lbs red potatoes
1 medium onion, diced
6 slices bacon
1/2 cup sugar
3 T flour
2 t salt
fresh ground pepper to taste
1 cup red cider vinegar
1 cup water

1. Boil potatoes until fork tender. Drain and cut into uniform size pieces about 1-inch. You can either leave the skins on or take them off. I leave about 3/4 of them on.

2. Fry the bacon until crisp in a large skillet. I use an electric skillet.

3. Saute the onion in the hot bacon grease for 3 min or so.

4. Mix together the sugar, flour, salt and pepper in a bowl. Add to onions, until the mixture is sticking to the onions and grease.

5. Add the vinegar and water. Stir to dissolve the sugar and flour. Bring to boiling. Cook, stirring frequently for about 2 minutes.

6. Add the potatoes and stir to coat evenly. Heat through. Turn off heat and cover with a kitchen towel. Allow to sit for 1-2 hours.

7. Just before serving, crumble the bacon over the top and stir.

cdcox
07-03-2009, 02:48 PM
That was a good investment of a 12 pack.

Did you spray or baste the brisket during cooking? Did it cook directly on the grate or in a foil pan? I ask because I've done that using a brisket with little fat.

Make sure to post after dinner, I want to hear the results.

I cooked the first 3 hours directly on the grate without basting. At the end of 3 hours, I would estimate that no more than 2 T of liquid was sitting in the bottom of the smoker. None had dripped out the grease trap at all. So a foil pan would not have done anything except block smoke. Internal temp of the meat was 150F.

I then wrapped it in two layers of HD aluminum foil. It came up to 195 very quickly, about 45 minutes. I didn't look at the smoker temp very much during this time, but I would guess it averaged around 250.

Once it reached 195, I wrapped it in a towel and put it in my playmate cooler. I left the thermometer in so I could monitor the temp. After about 40 minutes it had dropped to 175 or so. I boiled some water and put the pot on top of the brisket and closed the cooler. It was in the cooler for about 3 hours and didn't ended at 165.

When I pulled it out of the cooler to slice, I drained about 2 cups of liquid from the foiled brisket. This all came from the meat since I didn't add a drop of liquid. I'm going to save this smoky, spicy wonderfulness for some kind of soup or chili.

All of the meat had excellent smoky flavor. The smoke ring penetrates a full 1/4 inch into the meat. The point (what little there was) was cooked to perfection (tender, juicy, smoky). I've only cut up part of the flat. It has great flavor, adequate moisture (not juicy, not dry), and is fairly tender. In the past, I've cooked a brisket for 18 hours and the flat was just about falling apart. The brisket I cooked today still has most of it's connective tissue. I'd say the connective tissue in the flat is the biggest difference between this brisket and the 18-hour brisket. Considering I'm done eating and the 18-hr version would still have 9 hours or so to go, this was a pretty fair trade off.

cdcox
07-03-2009, 03:00 PM
I burned through that stuff pretty fast. Good stuff. Also went through my parents' wild cherry pretty quick.

I use lump charcoal for most of the heat and save the apple for smoke. Today I used:

one 2" x 9" apple
two or three 1" x 9" apple
one 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" hickory chunk

about 5 or 6 lbs of lump charcoal

I put the big apple piece and hickory chunk on at the same time at the beginning. There was smoke pouring out the smoke stack and wisps coming out from the lid for the first hour. I think that is what gave the great smoke ring and flavor.

cdcox
07-03-2009, 04:04 PM
If anyone is using the potato salad recipe, note that I initially typed in the wrong amount of flour (from memory). I fixed it now in the original post.

JASONSAUTO
07-03-2009, 06:14 PM
If anyone is using the potato salad recipe, note that I initially typed in the wrong amount of flour (from memory). I fixed it now in the original post.

thanks for sharing the recipe, will try soon

"Bob" Dobbs
07-03-2009, 08:56 PM
Damn, I'm hungry now.

RJ
07-03-2009, 10:18 PM
I cooked the first 3 hours directly on the grate without basting. At the end of 3 hours, I would estimate that no more than 2 T of liquid was sitting in the bottom of the smoker. None had dripped out the grease trap at all. So a foil pan would not have done anything except block smoke. Internal temp of the meat was 150F.

I then wrapped it in two layers of HD aluminum foil. It came up to 195 very quickly, about 45 minutes. I didn't look at the smoker temp very much during this time, but I would guess it averaged around 250.

Once it reached 195, I wrapped it in a towel and put it in my playmate cooler. I left the thermometer in so I could monitor the temp. After about 40 minutes it had dropped to 175 or so. I boiled some water and put the pot on top of the brisket and closed the cooler. It was in the cooler for about 3 hours and didn't ended at 165.

When I pulled it out of the cooler to slice, I drained about 2 cups of liquid from the foiled brisket. This all came from the meat since I didn't add a drop of liquid. I'm going to save this smoky, spicy wonderfulness for some kind of soup or chili.

All of the meat had excellent smoky flavor. The smoke ring penetrates a full 1/4 inch into the meat. The point (what little there was) was cooked to perfection (tender, juicy, smoky). I've only cut up part of the flat. It has great flavor, adequate moisture (not juicy, not dry), and is fairly tender. In the past, I've cooked a brisket for 18 hours and the flat was just about falling apart. The brisket I cooked today still has most of it's connective tissue. I'd say the connective tissue in the flat is the biggest difference between this brisket and the 18-hour brisket. Considering I'm done eating and the 18-hr version would still have 9 hours or so to go, this was a pretty fair trade off.


Great info, cd. An excellent report, as I knew it would be.

Definitely save that juice. Another use could be BBQ sauce. I loves me some brisket drippings in my sauce.

I was planning on smoking ribs tomorrow but this thread got me thinking brisket.....so I'll do both, right?

No point in firing up a smoker if you're not going to use up all the smoke.

Might as well put some beans on there too.

Buehler445
07-05-2009, 01:22 PM
Good report CD. I'm going to make that potato salad.
Posted via Mobile Device

Stewie
12-28-2011, 01:43 PM
OK, I'm watching BBQ Pitmasters on Planet Green that shows competitions in detail. The best of the best use some no-nos in their preparation. Well, they're no-nos to most snobs, but it works for them.

1) Myron Mixon (greatest BBQ competition winner ever) uses lighter fluid to start his wood/coals. He said the people who say it's wrong can go fuck themselves... I'll beat your ass doing it.

2) Johnny Trigg (several wins on the national stage) uses two commercially available BBQ sauces mixed with honey for his sauce.

3) It's not the cheap cuts of brisket that matter, Kobe brisket is popular among the big boys.

4) More when I find out more.

5) Edit: Pellet smokers seem to be doing well even though they're scoffed at in competitions.

2bikemike
12-28-2011, 02:33 PM
OK, I'm watching BBQ Pitmasters on Planet Green that shows competitions in detail. The best of the best use some no-nos in their preparation. Well, they're no-nos to most snobs, but it works for them.

1) Myron Mixon (greatest BBQ competition winner ever) uses lighter fluid to start his wood/coals. He said the people who say it's wrong can go **** themselves... I'll beat your ass doing it.

2) Johnny Trigg (several wins on the national stage) uses two commercially available BBQ sauces mixed with honey for his sauce.

3) It's not the cheap cuts of brisket that matter, Kobe brisket is popular among the big boys.

4) More when I find out more.

5) Edit: Pellet smokers seem to be doing well even though they're scoffed at in competitions.

We have a wood pellet at work. It works well for maintaining a good consant temp without the fuss. However I don't think it add enough of that smokey flavor.

BTW I have always foiled and wrapped in towels and dropped in the cooler whatever meat I cooked on the Q after I have gotten my Internal Temp to the desired final temperature. That is my resting period. IMHO the meats just a bit more tender and juicier that way.

As far as the fast brisket method I have heard Myron Mixon say he does it that way. I would like to learn how to do it.

KCUnited
12-28-2011, 02:45 PM
I did a couple high heat briskets over the Summer/Fall, cooked at 325+. It was certainly convenient enough for spontaneous cookouts, and I felt the meat was tender enough, but cooking with foil killed the dry rub I would use on a low and slow. Quality of the bark was undesirable.

I'll definitely keep doing them every now and again for the convenience, I'll probably experiment with a wet rub next go around.

Great Expectations
12-28-2011, 03:00 PM
I did a couple high heat briskets over the Summer/Fall, cooked at 325+. It was certainly convenient enough for spontaneous cookouts, and I felt the meat was tender enough, but cooking with foil killed the dry rub I would use on a low and slow. Quality of the bark was undesirable.

I'll definitely keep doing them every now and again for the convenience, I'll probably experiment with a wet rub next go around.

This is my exact experience with it as well. Next time I'm going to do this method after work on a Friday, cool the meat in the fridge overnight and then re-smoke it on Saturday low and slow to make a new version of burnt ends.

talastan
12-28-2011, 03:10 PM
I did a couple high heat briskets over the Summer/Fall, cooked at 325+. It was certainly convenient enough for spontaneous cookouts, and I felt the meat was tender enough, but cooking with foil killed the dry rub I would use on a low and slow. Quality of the bark was undesirable.

I'll definitely keep doing them every now and again for the convenience, I'll probably experiment with a wet rub next go around.

I'm still new to the smoking BBQ experience. What is the difference between a wet rub and a dry rub? Is it just ingredients or the process?

KCUnited
12-28-2011, 03:16 PM
I'm still new to the smoking BBQ experience. What is the difference between a wet rub and a dry rub? Is it just ingredients or the process?

It's basically adding a liquid to your dry rub to create a paste. Like a combo of a dry rub and a marinade.

My dry rub becomes watery and bland when I cook a brisket at high heat due to the foiling process. I've heard some claim that a wet rub will bark up better during a high heat cook, but I've yet to try it.