PDA

View Full Version : U.S. Issues It seems that DHS report wasn't to far off


dirk digler
06-10-2009, 03:57 PM
With the second attack\killing by a radical right-winger in less than 2 weeks it appears DHS was correct in their report about radical groups on both sides.

A heavily criticized Department of Homeland Security Report on right-wing extremism that was released in April warned precisely of the type of violent anti-Semitic activity that occurred at the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington D.C. on Wednesday.

Early this afternoon, a man in his late-80s with ties to white supremacist organizations opened fire inside the museum, reportedly hitting two people, including a security guard, in the process.

James W. Von Brunn, according to reports, has a history of anti-Semitism and may have been driven by such feelings when he committed his violent act. Indeed, Von Brunn even had anti-Semitic writings on his web site (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/10/james-w-von-brunn-holocau_n_213864.html), and had made pejorative remarks about Jewish control of the Justice system.
In light of these biographical revelations, it is worth revisiting the DHS report that was deemed by conservatives to be so controversial.

In April, the Department of Homeland Security issued a draft memorandum warning that the current economic and political landscape created dangerously ripe conditions for a resurgence in radicalization and extremist recruitment. In it, federal officials warned specifically about an upswing of anti-Semitic behavior.

"Anti-Semitic extremists attribute these losses to a deliberate conspiracy conducted by a cable of Jewish 'financial elites,'" the report read. "These 'accusatory' tactics are employed to draw new recruits into right-wing extremist groups and further radicalize those already subscribing to extremist beliefs."

When the 10-page DHS memorandum was made public, however, warnings like these largely took the back seat to charges that the department had been politically motivated in its assessments and writings. Indeed, a wide swath of voices in the conservative movement -- from Rush Limbaugh to RNC Chairman Michael Steele -- lashed out at DHS Secretary Napolitano over what they deemed an anti-Republican report.

"This is the height of insult here," Steele told Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517161,00.html). "I mean to segment out Americans who dissent from this administration, to segment out conservatives in this country who have a different philosophy or view from this administration, and labeling them as terrorists and then to call into question the service of the men and women who are right now standing on that wall defending our freedom and linking them to terrorism while you refuse to call the terrorists -- the real terrorists -- terrorists, to me it's the height of insult."

It's been several months now since that DHS report was issues and, sadly, the study is proving increasingly prescient. In addition to the Von Brunn shootings, there has been the killing of abortion provider George Tiller, another type of ideologically-driven killing that Napolitano warned against.
"Rightwing extremism in the United States can be broadly divided into those groups, movements, and adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups), and those that are mainly anti-government, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely," the DHS report reads (http://www.gordonunleashed.com/HSA%20-%20Rightwing%20Extremism%20-%2009%2004%2007.pdf). "It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration."

wild1
06-10-2009, 03:58 PM
What makes you think this Von Brunn guy was a right winger?

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 03:58 PM
Damn even Fox News thinks so

GALLAGHER: It's a fair admonishment to us Catherine, to be careful of the facts here. But as you look at these, these types of groups that the FBI may or may not be investigating in the hours and days to come, we often forget about homegrown groups, and as you were saying in a report just a few days ago, one of the big concerns now about terrorism is from within.

HERRIDGE: Well that's right; for some context I think we need to look a the incidents today and see the warning from Homeland Security, about left-wing and right-wing extremist groups in this country, in a somewhat different light. I know from having interviewed every homeland security secretary who's come through that office that their primary concern has always been the lone wolf attacks. As I mentioned earlier today, the lone wolf attack is the most difficult to thwart because it is a conspiracy of one, an individual who is not sharing information with other people. The broader the conspiracy, as you can imagine, the more likely it is that information will leak and law enforcement will be able to intervene. So again it's a lone wolf attack, during the inaugural period, right up to today, I know that is the number one concern. And whether this is in fact the case, this would appear, and I would emphasize appear to fit that profile. And again I think we have to consider that these warning from Homeland Security that became so controversial earlier this year about left-wing and right-wing extremist groups, we have to now see them in a different light because they did specifically talk about the spread of white supremacy groups--[CROSSTALK]

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 03:59 PM
What makes you think this Von Brunn guy was a right winger?

Known white supremacist

banyon
06-10-2009, 04:01 PM
What makes you think this Von Brunn guy was a right winger?

Is there some vast, anti-jewish left-oriented group I'm unaware of?

Bowser
06-10-2009, 04:03 PM
Is there some vast, anti-jewish left-oriented group I'm unaware of?

The Mob? Doesn't exist.

wild1
06-10-2009, 04:04 PM
Is there some vast, anti-jewish left-oriented group I'm unaware of?

Most of the anti-semitism I have encountered in my life has come from leftists.

Bowser
06-10-2009, 04:08 PM
Most of the anti-semitism I have encountered in my life has come from leftists.

Did you go and ask the people which way they leaned politically after they cracked a Jew joke?

irishjayhawk
06-10-2009, 04:14 PM
Did you go and ask the people which way they leaned politically after they cracked a Jew joke?

LMAO

wild1
06-10-2009, 04:14 PM
Did you go and ask the people which way they leaned politically after they cracked a Jew joke?

I don't need to ask people I have known for many years what their political leanings are, I already know.

banyon
06-10-2009, 04:15 PM
Most of the anti-semitism I have encountered in my life has come from leftists.

Were they announced racial zealots like this guy?

irishjayhawk
06-10-2009, 04:16 PM
What counts as anti-Semitic these days?

alpha_omega
06-10-2009, 04:17 PM
Look out....here come the righties!

banyon
06-10-2009, 04:21 PM
I don't need to ask people I have known for many years what their political leanings are, I already know.

Why would you hang out with people who are trying to destroy your race?

wild1
06-10-2009, 04:22 PM
Why would you hang out with people who are trying to destroy your race?

I'm not a Jew. I said 'encountered'. Meaning observed firsthand or come into contact with.

banyon
06-10-2009, 04:23 PM
I'm not a Jew. I said 'encountered'. Meaning observed firsthand or come into contact with.

So you hang out with a buch of declared white supremacists?

wild1
06-10-2009, 04:25 PM
So you hang out with a buch of declared white supremacists?

Why do I have to keep retyping the same things? I said I know people who harbor prejudice against Jews, and most of them lean left.

But since you asked, as far as I know I don't know any white supremacists.

BigRedChief
06-10-2009, 04:30 PM
Homegrown hate groups increase in number
Civil rights group blames recession, election of first black president
By Mara Schiavocampo
Correspondent

updated 3:13 p.m. CT, Wed., June 10, 2009
<SCRIPT language=javascript> function UpdateTimeStamp(pdt) { var n = document.getElementById("udtD"); if(pdt != '' && n && window.DateTime) { var dt = new DateTime(); pdt = dt.T2D(pdt); if(dt.GetTZ(pdt)) {n.innerHTML = dt.D2S(pdt,(('false'.toLowerCase()=='false')?false:true));} } } UpdateTimeStamp('633802616108770000');</SCRIPT>
ST. LOUIS, Mo. - On a recent Saturday afternoon, hate was on the march in St. Louis. About 85 members of the National Socialist Movement (NSM), the nation’s largest neo-Nazi group, gathered in the shadow of the famed Gateway Arch for a march and rally celebrating its 35th anniversary.
Clad in all black, with their pants tucked into tightly laced combat boots, the group carried swastika flags and signs urging immigrants to leave the country. They chanted “Sieg Heil,” a popular rallying cry in World War II Germany, accompanied by a Nazi salute: one arm outstretched, fingers tightly joined, palms facing down.

Their critics say that groups like NSM are the faces of homegrown hate, something the NSM denies. They instead call themselves a “white civil rights organization.” Its ultimate goal is to whitewash America. If they had their way, U.S. citizenship would be limited to “those of pure white blood”; minorities would live in the country as guests. All Jewish people and gays would be forced to leave and immigration would be prohibited.

As shocking as those views are, groups like this are more popular than ever.
“Right across the board, extremist groups are thriving right now”, says Mark Potok, Director of the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Intelligence Project.

The SPLC has been tracking hate groups for almost 30 years. In its spring 2009 Intelligence Report, they found that 926 hate groups are currently operating in the U.S., an all-time high. These groups include the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis, racist skinheads and Black separatists.
Potok attributes this rise in hate groups to the recession, the election of the nation’s first black president, and the immigration debate.
“We’re looking at a kind of perfect storm of factors that really favor the continued growth of these groups,” he says.

Last month the Department of Homeland Security issued a report on the expansion of right wing extremist groups, saying those organizations are being fueled by the economic downturn and the election of Barack Obama.
But experts say it is the immigration debate that is most significantly contributing to the rise of hate groups, an issue that is exacerbated by the shaky economy.

“These groups have really successfully exploited the immigration issue,” Potok says. “For them it’s ‘brown skin people are coming into this country to destroy us.’”

Some groups, like the NSM, blame immigrants for the scarcity of available jobs.
“The government keeps telling us that these people are coming here to take the jobs that no one else wants,” says Jeff Schoep, head of the NSM. “I think it’s a lie, I think it’s a farce, and I think the American people are tired of being lied to.”

Officials say the NSM is a non-violent organization. But others are turning their frustrations into violent action. The immigration backlash has led to a surge in hate crimes against Hispanics, up 40 percent between 2003 and 2007, according to FBI statistics.

Last November, 37-year-old Ecuadorian immigrant Marcelo Lucero, a 16-year resident of the U.S., was attacked while walking near his home in Patchogue, New York. Prosecutors say a group of seven teens taunted Lucero with racial slurs, beat him, and fatally stabbed him in the chest. The reason? According to prosecutors they were “beaner hopping”: attacking Hispanics for sport. All of the defendants have pled not guilty.
“In that moment, the world collapsed on my shoulders and everything changed,” says the victim’s brother, Joselo Lucero. “I don’t want my community, my people suffering anymore. Because everyday people wake up to work and they don’t know if they’re going to come back.”
Potok says the election of Barack Obama as the nation’s first black president has also been a powerful recruiting tool for some hate groups, and led to a rash of violence and vandalism in the days after the election.

While that overall situation is worrisome, Potok points out that in some ways it also marks signs of progress.
“The long arc of history really does bend towards justice. What we are seeing I think is a backlash to real and significant social advance.”
Schiavocampo reports on this story, Wednesday on NBC Nightly News.
© 2009 msnbc.com Reprints
<SCRIPT>var url=location.href;var i=url.indexOf('/did/') + 1;if(i==0){i=url.indexOf('/print/1/') + 1;}if(i==0){i=url.indexOf('&print=1');}if(i>0){url = url.substring(0,i);document.write('URL: '+url+' (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/'+url+')
');if(window.print){window.print()}else{alert('To print his page press Ctrl-P on your keyboard \nor choose print from your browser or device after clicking OK');}}</SCRIPT>URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30876593/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30876593/)

SBK
06-10-2009, 04:30 PM
I heard he drove a Ford Taurus that had a Ron Paul bumper sticker.
Posted via Mobile Device

irishjayhawk
06-10-2009, 04:31 PM
I heard he drove a Ford Taurus that had a Ron Paul bumper sticker.
Posted via Mobile Device

KILLER CLOWN won't be happy.

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 04:31 PM
Why do I have to keep retyping the same things? I said I know people who harbor prejudice against Jews, and most of them lean left.

But since you asked, as far as I know I don't know any white supremacists.

Most white supremacists are radical right-wingers and that isn't anything new that has been known for a long time.

Anyway 2 very serious incidents\killings in the last 2 weeks makes everyone that said that the DHS report was shit look kind of silly now.

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 04:32 PM
I heard he drove a Ford Taurus that had a Ron Paul bumper sticker.
Posted via Mobile Device

LMAO

LMAO

Where is TJ or BEP? We haven't heard from them in awhile.... :D

BigRedChief
06-10-2009, 04:32 PM
Most white supremacists are radical right-wingers and that isn't anything new that has been known for a long time.

Anyway 2 very serious incidents\killings in the last 2 weeks makes everyone that said that the DHS report was shit look kind of silly now.
and no one is eating crow on here.....

wild1
06-10-2009, 04:34 PM
Homegrown hate groups increase in number
Civil rights group blames recession, election of first black president
By Mara Schiavocampo
Correspondent

updated 3:13 p.m. CT, Wed., June 10, 2009
ST. LOUIS, Mo. - On a recent Saturday afternoon, hate was on the march in St. Louis. About 85 members of the National Socialist Movement (NSM), the nation’s largest neo-Nazi group, gathered in the shadow of the famed Gateway Arch for a march and rally celebrating its 35th anniversary.

...Their critics say that groups like NSM are the faces of homegrown hate, something the NSM denies. They instead call themselves a “white civil rights organization.” Its ultimate goal is to whitewash America. If they had their way, U.S. citizenship would be limited to “those of pure white blood”; minorities would live in the country as guests. All Jewish people and gays would be forced to leave and immigration would be prohibited.


I for one think we need to put this freedom of speech stuff to a stop before something bad happens.

BigRedChief
06-10-2009, 04:35 PM
I for one think we need to put this freedom of speech stuff to a stop before something bad happens.
no one is wanting to stop free speech. Who or what group has suggested that?

wild1
06-10-2009, 04:36 PM
Most white supremacists are radical right-wingers and that isn't anything new that has been known for a long time.

Anyway 2 very serious incidents\killings in the last 2 weeks makes everyone that said that the DHS report was shit look kind of silly now.

It's going to take a lot of singular crimes committed by 80 year old nuts to pass all the people who died for the principles of statism, socialism, too much centralized government power, etc., in the past hundred years.

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 04:37 PM
and no one is eating crow on here.....

I am not really looking for that anyway.

What I am starting to believe is that theory that who ever is POTUS the opposite side freaks start to come out and play.

We had all the left-wing whackos out in force for 8 straight years while the radical right stayed fairly quiet except during Terry Schiavo.

Now since Obama is POTUS the opposite is happening.

wild1
06-10-2009, 04:38 PM
no one is wanting to stop free speech. Who or what group has suggested that?

No one has overtly suggested that yet. We're still in the fear creation stage.

Once people are sufficiently indoctrinated that anyone on the political right is a ticking time bomb and potential domestic terrorist will they be able to do things like shut down talk radio and break up demonstrations like this, under the auspices of protecting the public.

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 04:40 PM
No one has overtly suggested that yet. We're still in the fear creation stage.

Once people are sufficiently indoctrinated that anyone on the political right is a ticking time bomb and potential domestic terrorist will they be able to do things like shut down talk radio and break up demonstrations like this, under the auspices of protecting the public.

You know what is funny is that we heard all that same stuff from people on the right leading up and during the Iraq War. Anyone that was against the war was a traitor or unpatriotic or terrorist lovers or they wanted America to fail. I am sure you were equally outraged.

Adept Havelock
06-10-2009, 04:42 PM
What counts as anti-Semitic these days?

Well, there's a fair number of folks attempting to conflate a lack of blind support for Israel with hating Jewish people. :rolleyes:

No one has overtly suggested that yet. We're still in the fear creation stage.

Once people are sufficiently indoctrinated that anyone on the political right is a ticking time bomb and potential domestic terrorist will they be able to do things like shut down talk radio and break up demonstrations like this, under the auspices of protecting the public.

Do you prefer Reynolds Wrap for your headwear, or do you go with a generic brand?

There are plenty of kooks capable of violence on the left and right. Both bands of nutters need watching.

Cannibal
06-10-2009, 04:43 PM
Why do I have to keep retyping the same things? I said I know people who harbor prejudice against Jews, and most of them lean left.

But since you asked, as far as I know I don't know any white supremacists.

I think you're full of shit.

FishingRod
06-10-2009, 04:50 PM
What color are Jews?

irishjayhawk
06-10-2009, 04:52 PM
Well, there's a fair number of folks attempting to conflate a lack of blind support for Israel with hating Jewish people. :rolleyes:


That's what i was wondering.

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 04:54 PM
What color are Jews?

Mostly Caucasian I would assume. why?

wild1
06-10-2009, 04:55 PM
Do you prefer Reynolds Wrap for your headwear, or do you go with a generic brand?

There are plenty of kooks capable of violence on the left and right. Both bands of nutters need watching.

That's precisely the point. People here seem to feel that simply holding a belief that the current group of people in power would call "extreme" means that the government should be keeping tabs on you.

I've not seen anything that says these people at the demonstration or the 80 year old in the thread starter broke any serious laws. Why should the government watch them? They appear to be law abiding citizens.

The government has no right to monitor people who have not even done something suspicious. The fact that some invasion of freedom would have prevented something bad does not mean that such an invasion would have been justified.

No one will type something they don't currently want to defend, but these kinds of posters are not far from benig as big of whackjobs as the people doing these crimes. Those people had one kind of extreme belief. They have another kind, where they are being ripened to the idea that the government needs to spy on people simply for having beliefs contrary to the party in power.

FishingRod
06-10-2009, 05:00 PM
"Mostly Caucasian I would assume. why?"

I just was wondering. My kids Great grandma was a little old Jewish lady so I guess they are 1/16 but they are both pretty pasty white with blond hair and blue eyes.

But mostly I was thinking the term "White supremacist" was a poor description of that particular group of douchbags. I don't think most of them like Catholics either unless they have become more inclusive.

orange
06-10-2009, 05:00 PM
That's precisely the point. People here seem to feel that simply holding a belief that the current group of people in power would call "extreme" means that the government should be keeping tabs on you.

I've not seen anything that says these people at the demonstration or the 80 year old in the thread starter broke any serious laws. Why should the government watch them? They appear to be law abiding citizens.

The government has no right to monitor people who have not even done something suspicious. The fact that some invasion of freedom would have prevented something bad does not mean that such an invasion would have been justified.

No one will type something they don't currently want to defend, but these kinds of posters are not far from benig as big of whackjobs as the people doing these crimes. Those people had one kind of extreme belief. They have another kind, where they are being ripened to the idea that the government needs to spy on people simply for having beliefs contrary to the party in power.

The suspect - James Von Brunn - was convicted of attempted kidnapping and served 11 years. He tried to to kidnap the board members of the Federal Reserve.

Since release, he has Anti-Semitic websites, a book, and participates in various hate movements.

He also rails against the obvious suppression of free speech in this country:

"The purpose of this book is to present to WHITE YOUTH factual information conventionally suppressed or distorted by the mass media, and denied them by schools and universities which are forced to promulgate the Marxist line or lose their government subsidies. Appearing throughout the text are quotes from world authorities whose credentials appear in the bibliography. Upon reading TOB SHEBBE GOYIM HAROG! (KILL THE BEST GENTILES!) you will understand that despite loud protests of denial an age old CONSPIRACY does exist to destroy Western Civilization. At this moment we are engaged in a deadly war with the HISTORIC ENEMY to determine whether or not our Nation will endure. We are losing that war because an Iron Curtain of censorship has descended over the landscape abrogating the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. Without Freedom of Speech our system of government cannot function. The hour is late. You and your family are in grave danger. We will present the FACTS then discuss what actions must be taken."

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 05:04 PM
That's precisely the point. People here seem to feel that simply holding a belief that the current group of people in power would call "extreme" means that the government should be keeping tabs on you.

I've not seen anything that says these people at the demonstration or the 80 year old in the thread starter broke any serious laws. Why should the government watch them? They appear to be law abiding citizens.

The government has no right to monitor people who have not even done something suspicious. The fact that some invasion of freedom would have prevented something bad does not mean that such an invasion would have been justified.

No one will type something they don't currently want to defend, but these kinds of posters are not far from benig as big of whackjobs as the people doing these crimes. Those people had one kind of extreme belief. They have another kind, where they are being ripened to the idea that the government needs to spy on people simply for having beliefs contrary to the party in power.

What? This 80 year old guy opened fire in a museum and had previously posted about wanting to kill Jews. I am glad you are not in law enforcement we would all be fucked.

Adept Havelock
06-10-2009, 05:04 PM
The suspect - James Von Brunn - was convicted of attempted kidnapping and served 11 years. He tried to to kidnap the board members of the Federal Reserve.

Since release, he has Anti-Semitic websites, a book, and participates in various hate movements.

He also rails against the obvious suppression of free speech in this country:

"The purpose of this book is to present to WHITE YOUTH factual information conventionally suppressed or distorted by the mass media, and denied them by schools and universities which are forced to promulgate the Marxist line or lose their government subsidies. Appearing throughout the text are quotes from world authorities whose credentials appear in the bibliography. Upon reading TOB SHEBBE GOYIM HAROG! (KILL THE BEST GENTILES!) you will understand that despite loud protests of denial an age old CONSPIRACY does exist to destroy Western Civilization. At this moment we are engaged in a deadly war with the HISTORIC ENEMY to determine whether or not our Nation will endure. We are losing that war because an Iron Curtain of censorship has descended over the landscape abrogating the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. Without Freedom of Speech our system of government cannot function. The hour is late. You and your family are in grave danger. We will present the FACTS then discuss what actions must be taken."

Yep, nothing to be concerned about there. Just ask wild1. :rolleyes:

wild1
06-10-2009, 05:05 PM
The suspect - James Von Brunn - was convicted of attempted kidnapping and served 11 years. He tried to to kidnap the board members of the Federal Reserve.

Since release, he has Anti-Semitic websites, a book, and participates in various hate movements.

He also rails against the obvious suppression of free speech in this country:

"The purpose of this book is to present to WHITE YOUTH factual information conventionally suppressed or distorted by the mass media, and denied them by schools and universities which are forced to promulgate the Marxist line or lose their government subsidies. Appearing throughout the text are quotes from world authorities whose credentials appear in the bibliography. Upon reading TOB SHEBBE GOYIM HAROG! (KILL THE BEST GENTILES!) you will understand that despite loud protests of denial an age old CONSPIRACY does exist to destroy Western Civilization. At this moment we are engaged in a deadly war with the HISTORIC ENEMY to determine whether or not our Nation will endure. We are losing that war because an Iron Curtain of censorship has descended over the landscape abrogating the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. Without Freedom of Speech our system of government cannot function. The hour is late. You and your family are in grave danger. We will present the FACTS then discuss what actions must be taken."

Regardless, I can't help but think of the way the same side of the spectrum pooh-poohed the jailhouse converts who were going to blow up a synagogue a couple weeks ago, or the one who shot two military recruiters because he was upset at our policy in Afghanistan. None of those things had anyone too concerned.

But a crazy old man who goes into a museum and fires a gun without even killing anyone is just further proof that the DHS report is right, the report which labeled basically anyone on the political right and many others who aren't as potential terrorists.

irishjayhawk
06-10-2009, 05:06 PM
Regardless, I can't help but think of the way the same side of the spectrum pooh-poohed the jailhouse converts who were going to blow up a synagogue a couple weeks ago, or the one who shot two military recruiters because he was upset at our policy in Afghanistan. None of those things had anyone too concerned.

But a crazy old man who goes into a museum and fires a gun without even killing anyone is just further proof that the DHS report is right, the report which labeled basically anyone on the political right and many others who aren't as potential terrorists.

Actually, he wounded two. One of which died.

jjjayb
06-10-2009, 05:06 PM
Is there some vast, anti-jewish left-oriented group I'm unaware of?

The Obama administration? :shrug:

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 05:07 PM
Heh maybe this is sportsshrink

A man has posted under the name James W. Von Brunn on various (http://saveireland.blogspot.com/2008/11/neo-racismthe-bnp-and-rabbi-brains.html) online (http://www.topix.net/forum/us/supreme-court/TGOH5M47EUFCLBGD3/p102#c2377) forums (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/opinions/3784886.cms), questioning President Barack Obama's origin of birth. A post under that name was pulled on the day of the shooting from the conservative website Free Republic (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2141655/posts); a cached version is here (http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:niXSYG-nVO8J:www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2141655/posts+http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2141655/posts&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a).

wild1
06-10-2009, 05:08 PM
Actually, he wounded two. One of which died.

That guy could have killed 10 military recruiters, or there could have been plots against 10 synagogues, and they would have gotten the same reactions.

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 05:08 PM
Actually, he wounded two. One of which died.



very sad. My prayers are with his family

irishjayhawk
06-10-2009, 05:08 PM
That guy could have killed 10 military recruiters, or there could have been plots against 10 synagogues, and they would have gotten the same reactions.

Point missed.

wild1
06-10-2009, 05:11 PM
Point missed.

My initial point was that all these people whipping themselves into a frenzy posting threads about dangerous people with right-leaning beliefs are not yet openly advocating that people like the DHS report profile should be monitored and tracked and such, but they are going to go along quite happily when more measures finally are are taken to suppress dissent to the progress of the left's objectives in government.

orange
06-10-2009, 05:11 PM
But a crazy old man who goes into a museum and fires a gun without even killing anyone is just further proof that the DHS report is right, the report which labeled basically anyone on the political right and many others who aren't as potential terrorists.

That guy could have killed 10 military recruiters, or there could have been plots against 10 synagogues, and they would have gotten the same reactions.


He only managed to kill one because he walked into a target that had heavy, alert security.

The kind the DHS report is calling for.

Adept Havelock
06-10-2009, 05:13 PM
My initial point was that all these people whipping themselves into a frenzy posting threads about dangerous people with right-leaning beliefs are not openly advocating that people like the DHS report profile should be monitored and tracked and such, but they are going to go along quite happily when more measures finally are are taken to suppress dissent to the progress of the left's objectives in government.

Hence my question about your preference for Reynolds Wrap headwear. :shrug:

Then again, I suppose we should just take your approach and turn a blind eye to the nuts on the left and the right. After all, it's not like something like OK City could happen, right? :rolleyes:

Right, I forgot, you don't remember the DHS report on leftist orgs (some of whom certainly need watching, IMO) because it doesn't feed your paranoia.

KCTitus
06-10-2009, 05:14 PM
Apparently this nut was also a 9/11 truther...I dont know of many 'right wingers' that are 9/11 truthers.

I look at the political spectrum as more of a circle than a line...

Extremism is not the sole property of either the left or right wing and I think that's the real problem with the DHS report.

orange
06-10-2009, 05:15 PM
Apparently this nut was also a 9/11 truther...I dont know of many 'right wingers' that are 9/11 truthers.

I look at the political spectrum as more of a circle than a line...

Extremism is not the sole property of either the left or right wing and I think that's the real problem with the DHS report.

They did a left-oriented report at the same time. It just didn't get the press that the other did.

Adept Havelock
06-10-2009, 05:15 PM
Extremism is not the sole property of either the left or right wing and I think that's the real problem with the DHS report.

I'd agree.

That said, I'm pretty sure DHS released reports on Left wing and Right wing potential terror, both commissioned by the Bush administration.

I must have missed all the paranoid outrage from wild1 over the report on Leftist organizations.

wild1
06-10-2009, 05:15 PM
Hence my question about your preference for Reynolds Wrap headwear. :shrug:

Then again, I suppose we should just take your approach and turn a blind eye to the nuts on the left and the right. After all, it's not like something like OK City could happen, right? :rolleyes:

If I put a police officer in everyone's house that I wanted, I bet I could prevent plenty of crimes.

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 05:16 PM
My initial point was that all these people whipping themselves into a frenzy posting threads about dangerous people with right-leaning beliefs are not yet openly advocating that people like the DHS report profile should be monitored and tracked and such, but they are going to go along quite happily when more measures finally are are taken to suppress dissent to the progress of the left's objectives in government.

How do you know they aren't being monitored and tracked? I would assume that radicals on the far-left are being monitored and tracked as well.

My only point about starting this thread was to point out that all the hand wringing about the evil DHS report was much ado about nothing and that the report was accurate.

wild1
06-10-2009, 05:18 PM
My only point about starting this thread was to point out that all the hand wringing about the evil DHS report was much ado about nothing and that the report was accurate.

You'll make a very productive subject, I congratulate you.

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 05:18 PM
I'd agree.

That said, I'm pretty sure DHS released reports on Left wing and Right wing potential terror, both commissioned by the Bush administration.

I must have missed all the paranoid outrage from wild1 over the report on Leftist organizations.

Yep that is 100% correct.

Adept Havelock
06-10-2009, 05:18 PM
If I put a police officer in everyone's house that I wanted, I bet I could prevent plenty of crimes.

If you want to conflate responsible oversight of known extremist groups with a police state...well, it'd be par for the course for you.

LMAO

wild1
06-10-2009, 05:19 PM
Apparently this nut was also a 9/11 truther...I dont know of many 'right wingers' that are 9/11 truthers.

Oh yeah, definitely as far right as it gets.

It's sad when things don't fit the narrative so well.

wild1
06-10-2009, 05:21 PM
If you want to conflate responsible oversight of known extremist groups with a police state, LMAO.

Does everyone here read every statement in a wooden literal sense?

The point is that because action A could have prevented a crime, that does not necessarily mean that A would have been justified.

Adept Havelock
06-10-2009, 05:22 PM
Does everyone here read every statement in a wooden literal sense?


Sorry, I have to go with the words you type. Not the words running around in your head.

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 05:23 PM
Oh yeah, definitely as far right as it gets.

It's sad when things don't fit the narrative so well.

I don't know too many leftists that think Obama is not born in the USA....well except for maybe Denise. Maybe she is tricking us all. :)

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 05:23 PM
Does everyone here read every statement in a wooden literal sense?

The point is that because action A could have prevented a crime, that does not necessarily mean that A would have been justified.

So you don't believe the police should monitor or use surveillance on people?

wild1
06-10-2009, 05:26 PM
So you don't believe the police should monitor or use surveillance on people?

Not unless they have advocated criminal activity or demonstrated that they are likely to commit crimes, etc

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 05:28 PM
Not unless they have advocated criminal activity or demonstrated that they are likely to commit crimes, etc

Wouldn't this guy fit that description? He tried to kidnap the members of the Federal Reserve and wrote that he wanted to kill Jews.

Baby Lee
06-10-2009, 05:28 PM
Most of the anti-semitism I have encountered in my life has come from leftists.

There are two very different types of anti-semites [at the very least and broadest], the 'left' who think they're too mean to Palestinians and have the US Govt in their pocket, and the 'right' who think the fact that they [along with blacks and mexicans] aren't white is reason enough.

Don't know that anyone has collated the respective sides' positions on gay marriage, social engineering, or activist courts though.

Left anti-semite: http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/06/10/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5079069.shtml

orange
06-10-2009, 05:30 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bxvunbIWNyI&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bxvunbIWNyI&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

SMITH:

There are people now, who are way out there on a limb. And I think they're just out there on a limb with the email they send us. Because I read it, and they are out there. I mean, out there in a scary place.

I could read a hundred of them like this...I mean from today. People who are so amped up and so angry for reasons that are absolutely wrong, ridiculous, preposterous.

dirk digler
06-10-2009, 05:49 PM
<object height="344" width="425">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bxvunbIWNyI&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="344" width="425"></object>

SMITH:

There are people now, who are way out there on a limb. And I think they're just out there on a limb with the email they send us. Because I read it, and they are out there. I mean, out there in a scary place.

I could read a hundred of them like this...I mean from today. People who are so amped up and so angry for reasons that are absolutely wrong, ridiculous, preposterous.

Damn that is kind of scary though in all fairness a large part of the whacky nutty left called Bush all kinds of names and hate ful things.

wild1
06-10-2009, 06:05 PM
There are two very different types of anti-semites [at the very least and broadest], the 'left' who think they're too mean to Palestinians and have the US Govt in their pocket, and the 'right' who think the fact that they [along with blacks and mexicans] aren't white is reason enough.

Don't know that anyone has collated the respective sides' positions on gay marriage, social engineering, or activist courts though.

Left anti-semite: http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/06/10/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5079069.shtml

That's where I was going. I have known uneducated people who were kind of yokels, in my life, and if they were racist they tended to resent blacks.

However, of the educated people I have known, if they are racist they tend to dislike Jews. Mostly as an outworking of their political ideology of demonizing Israel and all that. Iif you're an educated white american liberal, you are much more likely to get away with making derisive comments about Israel because it more or less fits the DNC's approach to policy in the mideast. If you beat up on a particular country all night at a dinner party, like Mexico or some country in sub-saharan Africa, you would get called a racist before dinner were served. As long as you say "Israel" and not "Jews" you can say basically the same racist things and you won't catch as much flak.

I live in a very liberal city, and that is my observation. It carries a huge stigma among liberals to be perceived even in the slightest that you might harbor prejudice against, say, blacks. But they allow each other to dance very close to these ideas that it's the Jews who are bad people committing all kinds of evil atrocities everywhere and who are screwing up all kinds of geopolitical situations. Code words, however, remove the offense, like saying Israel and Zionists when what is meant is really just Jews.

wild1
06-10-2009, 06:07 PM
Wouldn't this guy fit that description? He tried to kidnap the members of the Federal Reserve and wrote that he wanted to kill Jews.

This guy in particular, yes. But the problem with the DHS business is that it's not about guys like this, it's part of an ongoing campaign to create suspicion of normal people with right of center political beliefs.

Adept Havelock
06-10-2009, 06:11 PM
As long as you say "Israel" and not "Jews" you can say basically the same racist things and you won't catch as much flak.

Code words, however, remove the offense, like saying Israel and Zionists when what is meant is really just Jews.

Thanks for proving my point. :thumb:

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5830754&postcount=30

What counts as anti-Semitic these days?

Well, there's a fair number of folks attempting to conflate a lack of blind support for Israel with hating Jewish people. :rolleyes:

I knew you wouldn't disappoint.

This guy in particular, yes. But the problem with the DHS business is that it's not about guys like this, it's part of an ongoing campaign to create suspicion of normal people with right of center political beliefs.

Sure, and that DHS report on Leftists was part of an ongoing campaign to create suspicion of normal people with left of center political beliefs. However, I suspect that doesn't fit your paranoid narrative. :)

The shiny hat suits you. Isn't that the same style Killer Clown wears? LMAO

wild1
06-10-2009, 06:14 PM
Thanks for proving my point. I knew you wouldn't disappoint. :thumb:

You continue to disappoint me, however. A "lack of blind support" and racism are not even close to the same thing.

wild1
06-10-2009, 06:16 PM
Sure, and that report on Leftists was part of an ongoing campaign to create suspicion of normal people with left of center political beliefs.

The shiny hat suits you. Isn't that the same style Killer Clown wears? LMAO

:rolleyes: I can see we're done here.

Baby Lee
06-10-2009, 06:18 PM
Thanks for proving my point. :thumb: I knew you wouldn't disappoint.
Congrats, you have evolved to the 'well ya see they's black people, and they's fine, and then they's N**ras. Ahm juss tawkin' 'bout the N**ras.' line of analysis, regular racists reached in the 70s.

;)

Adept Havelock
06-10-2009, 06:18 PM
You continue to disappoint me, however. A "lack of blind support" and racism are not even close to the same thing.

If I'm disappointing a paranoid like you, I must be doing something right. Thanks!

BTW- You are correct, a lack of support for Israel or "Zionism" or "Israeli Exceptionalism" or whatever label you want to choose isn't even close to racism or antisemitism. It's good that you are slowly figuring that out.

:rolleyes: I can see we're done here.

Heh. Looks like I was right. You believe the DHS report on the right signifies some conspiracy against the right, but won't ascribe the same motive to the DHS report on the left. LMAO

Congrats, you have evolved to the 'well ya see they's black people, and they's fine, and they's N**ras. Ahm juss tawkin' 'bout the N**ras.' line of analysis, regular racists reached in the 70s.

;)

That's a load of horseshit, and you know it. ;)

There is a vast difference between taking issue with the actions of a nation-state (Israel) and members of a religious/social group (Jews).

Keep trying to conflate the two, and I suppose that eventually you might convince some of the slower folks that it's true. Good luck with that.

wild1
06-10-2009, 06:22 PM
If I'm disappointing a paranoid like you, I must be doing something right. Thanks!

BTW- You are correct, a lack of support for Israel or "Zionism" or "Israeli Exceptionalism" or whatever label you want to choose isn't even close to racism or antisemitism. It's good that you are slowly figuring that out.


I'm impressed that you know so much about the people I have known and the things I've heard said in my lifetime, and that you can determine that they were all simply "lack of blind support" and not racism without even having been there. You only needed hear me say that they were liberals in order to dismiss all charges.

Very impressive.

Adept Havelock
06-10-2009, 06:26 PM
I'm impressed that you know so much about the people I have known and the things I've heard said in my lifetime, and that you can determine that they were all simply "lack of blind support" and not racism without even having been there. You only needed hear me say that they were liberals in order to dismiss all charges.

Very impressive.

I don't believe I ever said anything about the people you've known. :rolleyes:

However, I am pointing out your BS narrative that a lack of support for the nation of Israel somehow equates to racism against Jewish people. Well, that and your paranoia regarding the DHS report on the right, and your ideological blinders that keep you from seeing the DHS report on the left as a similar conspiracy.

You may well be right concerning your anecdotal evidence of antisemitism among some of your friends. However, your inability to ascribe the same paranoia you have over the DHS report on the right to the DHS report on the left suggest to me that like most people, you are just seeing what you want to see. For example:

The DHS report warned against the right, so it must be a conspiracy to silence the right and drive them underground.

People you know don't like some of Israel's actions, so they must be evil racists who hate Jewish people.

One is not dissimilar from the other, AFAICS.

However, as I said, they may be antisemitic. I don't know, nor do I give a damn if they are liberals or conservatives. That seems to be your bugaboo, as only the DHS report on the Right seems to be of concern. :shrug:

Keep spinning it. It's a quiet night, and this is kind of amusing. Very Impressive. LMAO

Baby Lee
06-10-2009, 06:28 PM
That's a load of horseshit, and you know it. ;)

There is a vast difference between taking issue with the actions of a nation-state (Israel) and members of a religious/social group (Jews).
The same, paper thin, difference between 'black folk and black folk who act the fool, and get all shiftless and lazy like,' that bigots against Jews and blacks don like some hospital gown to provide a modicum of cover.

And yes, people can forthrightly and honestly decry the bad acts of individual blacks, as well as the acts of the 'nation-state' alone. But don't try to deny that the undercurrent of darker motives isn't there for many in both cases.

Adept Havelock
06-10-2009, 06:33 PM
But don't try to deny that the undercurrent of darker motives isn't there for many in both cases.

I wouldn't deny that. In some cases, I'm sure it is true. However, I try not to speak for anyone but myself.

I did notice that you were very quick to ascribe that quasi-racist motive to me. I'll try to show the same level of thoughtfulness to you in the future. ;)

Baby Lee
06-10-2009, 06:36 PM
I wouldn't deny that. In some cases, I'm sure it is true. However, I try not to speak for anyone but myself.

I did notice that you were very quick to ascribe that motive to me. I'll try to show the same level of thoughtfulness to you in the future. ;)

Have winks no currency in this world anymore?

And to be fair, I ascribed the rationalization to you, not the underlying bigotry.

Trust me, I've been the brunt of it many a time from the other side for much less inflammatory generalizations, in their case, in full earnestness.

BucEyedPea
06-10-2009, 06:36 PM
I wonder if any of these guys are agent provocateurs?

Adept Havelock
06-10-2009, 06:39 PM
Have winks no currency in this world anymore?

And to be fair, I ascribed the rationalization to you, not the underlying bigotry.

I appreciate the clarification. I have many issues with Israel, and you're not one of those who has accused me of being anti-semitic in the past....which is always good for a laugh.

BTW- Ascribing the rationalization, but not the bigotry...isn't that a "paper thin difference"? :p

Trust me, I've been the brunt of it many a time from the other side for much less inflammatory generalizations, in their case, in full earnestness.
True, I've seen that. Sorry for my hasty words.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/m7mIy97_rlo&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/m7mIy97_rlo&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

BucEyedPea
06-10-2009, 06:40 PM
DHS report is identity politics and too generally political profiling which is still a mistake. Don't forget it included Constitutionalists and those with Paul bumper stickers. If you believe in the Constitution you don't murder people. I also object to this man being labeled a terrorist. He's just a murderer.

wild1
06-10-2009, 06:40 PM
I don't believe I ever said anything about the people you've known. :rolleyes:

However, I am pointing out your BS narrative that a lack of support for the nation of Israel somehow equates to racism against Jewish people.

I didn't say that it did, I just said that the climate of negativity towards Israel creates an environment where that which approaches racism is progressively becoming more acceptable.


Well, that and your paranoia regarding the DHS report on the right, and your ideological blinders that keep you from seeing the DHS report on the left as a similar conspiracy.

I haven't made any comment on this report, which I haven't seen.


The DHS report warned against the right, so it must be a conspiracy to silence the right and drive them underground.

Not exactly. I am merely casting the report as an obscene generalization.


People you know don't like some of Israel's actions, so they must be evil racists who hate Jewish people.

Again, something I never said.


However, as I said, they may be antisemitic. I don't know, nor do I give a damn if they are liberals or conservatives. That seems to be your bugaboo, as only the DHS report on the Right seems to be of concern. :shrug:


We aren't discussing that report, the thread is about how one 80 year old guy with a history of what in my opinion is a strong indicator of mental instability losing his marbles validates the obscene generalizations in that report.

Baby Lee
06-10-2009, 06:46 PM
BTW- Ascribing the rationalization, but not the bigotry...isn't that a "paper thin difference"? :p

Depends on whether your rationalization is actually the honest, rational explanation of your analysis, or that paper thin gown. Kind of the crux of the matter.

Of course, my attributing a redneck accent to the proceedings could be construed to hint at a lean one way or the other. Hence the wink.

Adept Havelock
06-10-2009, 07:09 PM
I didn't say that it did, I just said that the climate of negativity towards Israel creates an environment where that which approaches racism is progressively becoming more acceptable.
That doesn't seem to be the case here. Here, you're saying the racist educated people you know tend to dislike Jews. Then you go off on how "Israel" is just a code word for Jew-Hating without consequences.



However, of the educated people I have known, if they are racist they tend to dislike Jews. Mostly as an outworking of their political ideology of demonizing Israel and all that. Iif you're an educated white american liberal, you are much more likely to get away with making derisive comments about Israel because it more or less fits the DNC's approach to policy in the mideast. If you beat up on a particular country all night at a dinner party, like Mexico or some country in sub-saharan Africa, you would get called a racist before dinner were served. As long as you say "Israel" and not "Jews" you can say basically the same racist things and you won't catch as much flak.
:shrug:


I haven't made any comment on this report, which I haven't seen.
No, you haven't commented on it. However, you've shown your outright paranoia towards the DHS report on the right multiple times in this thread.


Not exactly. I am merely casting the report as an obscene generalization.

:spock: Nice attempt at backpedaling, but that's not so.

You've outright stated it's part of a conspiracy to drive the "mainstream" right out of political discourse.
No one has overtly suggested that yet. We're still in the fear creation stage.

Once people are sufficiently indoctrinated that anyone on the political right is a ticking time bomb and potential domestic terrorist will they be able to do things like shut down talk radio and break up demonstrations like this, under the auspices of protecting the public.

But the problem with the DHS business is that it's not about guys like this, it's part of an ongoing campaign to create suspicion of normal people with right of center political beliefs.

So, looks like you're quite willing to describe the DHS report on the right as a tool of a conspiracy to "shut down talk radio", remove the right to assemble, etc. In other words, paranoid bleatings, AFAICS.

We aren't discussing that report, the thread is about how one 80 year old guy with a history of what in my opinion is a strong indicator of mental instability losing his marbles validates the obscene generalizations in that report.

Really? Looks to me as if the OP is about the DHS reports and how they relate to this killing. And if you're going to claim that you were speaking about the DHS report on the left, then why wasn't that mentioned in the part of the post you responded to? The report on the Right was, though you claim we aren't talking about it. If we aren't discussing that report, why are you talking about it as part of a conspiracy against the right? LMAO

Depends on whether your rationalization is actually the honest, rational explanation of your analysis, or that paper thin gown. Kind of the crux of the matter.

Of course, my attributing a redneck accent to the proceedings could be construed to hint at a lean one way or the other. Hence the wink.

:thumb:

"You know how people say, YOU'RE OKAY IN MY BOOK, or AND IN MY BOOK THAT'S NO GOOD. Well, I actually have... a book"
And you're going in the book, BL. I'll have to say you're OK. :)

wild1
06-10-2009, 07:16 PM
That doesn't seem to be the case here. Here, you're saying the racist educated people you know tend to dislike Jews.

No, I said that among educated people I know, if they are racist, Jews were the group that they tend to be racist against.


Then you go off on how "Israel" is just a code word for Jew-Hating.


I went off on how if you substituted "Jews" into those sentences, 9 out of 10 observers would probably characterize them as racist, not that the word is necessarily always being used as code.

You seem to have a huge problem interpreting whether a statement always, often, or sometimes is true, when I think in all of these cases a plain reading shows the scope it was intended for.


You've outright stated it's part of a conspiracy to drive the "mainstream" right out of political discourse.


It may not have been authored for this purpose, but it encapsulates the sentiment that many on the left pass along about those on the right and, as we see in the creation and titling of this thread, is handy for such purposes and being employed in them.


Really? Looks to me as if the OP is about the DHS reports and how they relate to this killing. And if you're going to claim that you were speaking about the DHS report on the left, then why wasn't that mentioned in the part of the post you responded to? LMAO

I've not spoken about that report on the left in this thread except in your bringing it up.

Baby Lee
06-10-2009, 07:23 PM
And you're going in the book, BL. I'll have to say you're OK. :)
It also just occured to me that you might not have clicked the earlier link I provided to the esteemed Reverend Wright that was prominent in my mind as I made my initial reply to you.


A guy who, in his more restrained moments would make many of the arguments you say [rightly] aren't necessarily bigoted by themselves, but lets slip with "Them Jews aren't going to let him [Obama] talk to me" when asked if he'd spoken to Obama recently, revealing a just a little peek under the gown.

Adept Havelock
06-10-2009, 07:24 PM
No, I said that among educated people I know, if they are racist, Jews were the group that they tend to be racist against.

I believe that is referred to as a "distinction without a difference".


I went off on how if you substituted "Jews" into those sentences, 9 out of 10 observers would probably characterize them as racist, not that the word is necessarily always being used as code.
I'm sure they would, as there is a big difference between a nation state and a religious/ethnic group. One statement is racist, the other is not. As for intent or "code words"...I guess your mind reading skills are as sharp as mine.

You seem to have a huge problem interpreting whether a statement always, often, or sometimes is true, when I think in all of these cases a plain reading shows the scope it was intended for.
As I said before, I can only go off the words you type. Not the associated words in your head. :shrug:

It may not have been authored for this purpose, but it encapsulates the sentiment that many on the left pass along about those on the right and, as we see in the creation and titling of this thread, is handy for such purposes and being employed in them.
The only "sentiment" I see it encapsulates is the danger from political extremists, be they far left or far right.:shrug:


I've not spoken about that report on the left in this thread except in your bringing it up.
Of course you haven't. IMO, It doesn't feed your paranoid narrative like the DHS report on the right does.

Adept Havelock
06-10-2009, 07:29 PM
It also just occured to me that you might not have clicked the earlier link I provided to the esteemed Reverend Wright that was prominent in my mind as I made my initial reply to you.


A guy who, in his more restrained moments would make many of the arguments you say [rightly] aren't necessarily bigoted by themselves, but lets slip with "Them Jews aren't going to let him [Obama] talk to me" when asked if he'd spoken to Obama recently, revealing a just a little peek under the gown.

I did miss that link, but considering that I do see where your statement came from.

Wright's in my book too, but he's there under "POS".

KILLER_CLOWN
06-10-2009, 09:12 PM
In 1983 Von Brunn was convicted of attempting to kidnap members of the US federal reserve board. At the time, police said Von Brunn wanted to take the members hostage because of high interest rates and the nation's economic difficulties. On the website, Von Brunn blames his six-year imprisonment on "a Jew judge" and "Negro jury".


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/10/holocaust-museum-shooting-washington

Sounds like a provocateur to me, CIA probably.

KILLER_CLOWN
06-10-2009, 09:25 PM
The corporate media is claiming that James W. Von Brunn, the accused Holocaust Museum shooter, "has a racist, anti-Semitic Web site called http://www.holywesternempire.org"


But the whois record shows that it is actually registered to a Steve Reimink in Michigan!

KILLER_CLOWN
06-10-2009, 09:28 PM
An Artist as well?

James W. von Brunn (1920 - )

Research : James W. von Brunn

Summary Examples of his work
Quick facts Exhibits - current
Biography* Museums
Book references Magazine references pre-2007
Discussion board Signature Examples



Marketplace : James W. von Brunn

For sale ads Auction results*
Wanted ads Auctions upcoming for him*
Dealers Auction sales graphs*
What's my art worth? Magazine ads pre-1998*
Market Alert - Free Place a classified ad





Lived/Active: Maryland Known for: scapes, portrait, illustration, graphics
Back to Previous Page





Login | Register
View AskART Services
















*may require subscription



Available for James W. von Brunn:


Quick facts (Styles, locations, mediums, teachers, subjects, geography, etc.) (James von Brunn) yes
Biographical information (James von Brunn) yes
Book references (James von Brunn) 1
Discussion board entries (James von Brunn) 49
new entry!


Sign up for Artist Alert Updates for James W. von Brunn
What is an alert list?


Ad Code: 4
An example of work by James W. von Brunn
Artwork images are copyright of the artist or assignee

The following is from the artist:
James W. von Brunn (JvB)

Born: 7-11-20 in St. Louis, Missouri

Studio: Easton, MD
Subjects: Scapes, Portraits, Illustrations, Graphics

Style: Realist

Methods: Oil, mixed media.

BIOGRAPHY
The von Brunn/Wenneker families migrated from Germany/Austria c. 1845, settling in St. Louis, Missouri.

James von Brunn's father, Elmer, was superintendent of Scullin Steel Mill. During WWII he designed, and supervised a 40mm shell plant for the U.S. government in Houston, Texas. His wife Hope Wenneker von Brunn, educated at Hosmer Hall, was a homemaker and accomplished pianist. They had two children, James (JvB) and Alyce. The family spent summer months at Piasa. Illinois, (showing 750 of 10915 characters).



http://www.askart.com/askart/v/james_w_von_brunn/james_w_von_brunn.aspx

patteeu
06-11-2009, 07:26 AM
Is there some vast, anti-jewish left-oriented group I'm unaware of?

This is a trick question because, of course, you're already aware of Rev. Wright's Trinity United Church of Christ, Louis Farrakhan's Nation of Islam, and The New Black Panthers.

patteeu
06-11-2009, 07:31 AM
You know what is funny is that we heard all that same stuff from people on the right leading up and during the Iraq War. Anyone that was against the war was a traitor or unpatriotic or terrorist lovers or they wanted America to fail. I am sure you were equally outraged.

The right NEVER threatened anything like the "fairness" doctrine. The right were responsible for getting rid of it in the first place.

patteeu
06-11-2009, 07:36 AM
They did a left-oriented report at the same time. It just didn't get the press that the other did.

I must have missed all the paranoid outrage from wild1 over the report on Leftist organizations.

It didn't get the press that the other one did because the rightwing one was intentionally "leaked" for political purposes. That's the real conspiracy here.

Radar Chief
06-11-2009, 07:37 AM
"You know how people say, YOU'RE OKAY IN MY BOOK, or AND IN MY BOOK THAT'S NO GOOD. Well, I actually have... a book"


And you're going in the book, BL. I'll have to say you're OK. :)

Death Proof rep.
I always knew you were a closet Gear Head. :thumb:

Radar Chief
06-11-2009, 07:39 AM
I think it’s Obama’s fault. This shit didn’t happen with Bush was president.

:evil: :Poke:


ROFL

patteeu
06-11-2009, 07:39 AM
Wouldn't this guy fit that description? He tried to kidnap the members of the Federal Reserve and wrote that he wanted to kill Jews.

If the report on right wing extremists had suggested that the government should monitor people who have tried to commit violence in the past or those who have been convicted of political acts of violence, no one would have had any problem with it. Instead, it said we should be wary of those returning vets because they might be dangerous.

patteeu
06-11-2009, 07:42 AM
Damn that is kind of scary though in all fairness a large part of the whacky nutty left called Bush all kinds of names and hate ful things.

James W. von Brunn hated neocons, Bush, and McCain, just like many on what you call the whacky left.

HonestChieffan
06-11-2009, 07:42 AM
What color are Jews?

Sammie Davis Jr was Jew.

BigRedChief
06-11-2009, 07:44 AM
Sammie Davis Jr was Jew.
Yeah, the first non-white Jew since Jesus.:p

patteeu
06-11-2009, 07:46 AM
I think it’s Obama’s fault. This shit didn’t happen with Bush was president.

:evil: :Poke:


ROFL

Bush was the "decider". Obama is the "divider". ;)

HonestChieffan
06-11-2009, 07:47 AM
Alysa Stanton is Judaism's first black woman rabbi. She will become the rabbi at Congregation Bayt Shalom in Greenville, N.C.

Amazing isn't it?

patteeu
06-11-2009, 07:48 AM
Yeah, the first non-white Jew since Jesus.:p

You probably already know this, but there are quite a few black Jews such as these Ethiopians:

http://jewsribsinbearjaw.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/ethiopian_jews.jpg

dirk digler
06-11-2009, 07:55 AM
If the report on right wing extremists had suggested that the government should monitor people who have tried to commit violence in the past or those who have been convicted of political acts of violence, no one would have had any problem with it. Instead, it said we should be wary of those returning vets because they might be dangerous.

The guy was a veteran.

dirk digler
06-11-2009, 07:56 AM
From Politico

In addition to the Holocaust Museum shooting, the potential for violence from the right was also highlighted on May 31, when a well-known abortion doctor, George Tiller, was gunned down at his church in Wichita, Kan. The man charged with the shooting, Scott Roeder, had some ties to the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue and was affiliated in the 1990s with an anti-government group known as the “Freemen,” which claimed to be exempt from the authority of state and federal officials..

In another incident highlighted by civil rights activists, three Pittsburgh police officers were gunned down in April. The alleged shooter, Richard Poplawski, 23, reportedly told friends that he feared losing his cache of weapons to “Obama gun laws.” Poplawski, who appears to have been a regular contributor to white supremacist Web sites, also railed against Jewish control of the media and banks, friends said.

Also in April, two sheriffs deputies in northern Florida were killed in a shootout with a national guard soldier, Joshua Cartwright, as they tried to arrest him for domestic abuse. Cartwright, who was also killed in the exchange, was reportedly “severely disturbed” over Obama’s election and felt the U.S. government was conspiring against him.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23606_Page2.html#ixzz0I7qcf8UE&C

Radar Chief
06-11-2009, 07:57 AM
The guy was a veteran.

So was John Kerry. Coincidence? I think not.

HonestChieffan
06-11-2009, 07:58 AM
I guess a soldier getting killed by a leftist is not of any worry?

dirk digler
06-11-2009, 08:01 AM
So was John Kerry. Coincidence? I think not.

LMAO

patteeu
06-11-2009, 08:02 AM
The guy was a veteran.

Then why didn't you say:

Wouldn't this guy fit that description? He tried to kidnap the members of the Federal Reserve and wrote that he wanted to kill Jews was a veteran.

I'll tell you why you didn't say it. You didn't say it because it's idiotic, it's the opposite of compelling, and it wouldn't be the kind of thing that wild1 suggested would warrant surveillance.

dirk digler
06-11-2009, 08:03 AM
I guess a soldier getting killed by a leftist is not of any worry?

Are Muslim's leftists? That is a serious question btw.

patteeu
06-11-2009, 08:06 AM
Are Muslim's leftists? That is a serious question btw.

Do you think muslims are monolithic? The answer is that some are and some aren't.

BigRedChief
06-11-2009, 08:07 AM
You probably already know this, but there are quite a few black Jews such as these Ethiopians:

http://jewsribsinbearjaw.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/ethiopian_jews.jpg
yes, I was being sarcastic, hence the :p

dirk digler
06-11-2009, 08:07 AM
Then why didn't you say:
I'll tell you why you didn't say it. You didn't say it because it's idiotic, it's the opposite of compelling, and it wouldn't be the kind of thing that wild1 suggested would warrant surveillance.

The DHS report wasn't all about veterans they talked about white supremacist groups and anti-immigration groups as well. This guy was part of the white supremacist movement.

Velvet_Jones
06-11-2009, 08:07 AM
What color are Jews?

Plaid.

BigRedChief
06-11-2009, 08:08 AM
Do you think muslims are monolithic? The answer is that some are and some aren't.
the wipe their ass's after taking care of business in public restrooms with their hands? yes.

Baby Lee
06-11-2009, 08:17 AM
Yeah, the first non-white Jew since Jesus.:p

http://tinyurl.com/ly65zf

BigRedChief
06-11-2009, 08:26 AM
http://tinyurl.com/ly65zf
jezzzz you guys are whack. I spent a year and a half living in Israel but you don't think that I realize there are non-white Jews?

did you know that those non-white Jews you point out in your URL actually outnumber white jews now?

blaise
06-11-2009, 08:29 AM
Known white supremacist

I'm right wing and I have never entertained any white supremacist beliefs.
That's not part of right wing ideology as far as I'm concerned.

patteeu
06-11-2009, 08:33 AM
http://tinyurl.com/ly65zf

LMAO LMGTFY = Someone had a great idea!

http://a7.vox.com/6a00bf76d0a9b7438300e398a84d4f0002-500pi

dirk digler
06-11-2009, 08:35 AM
I'm right wing and I have never entertained any white supremacist beliefs.
That's not part of right wing ideology as far as I'm concerned.

Then you are hanging with the wrong crowd. You need to go see patteeu he runs klan meetings every Tuesday and Thursday night at the bingo hall

blaise
06-11-2009, 08:39 AM
Well, there's a fair number of folks attempting to conflate a lack of blind support for Israel with hating Jewish people. :rolleyes:



Do you prefer Reynolds Wrap for your headwear, or do you go with a generic brand?

There are plenty of kooks capable of violence on the left and right. Both bands of nutters need watching.

That's sort of like the people that attempt to conflate a lack of blind support for liberal social policies for being racist.

Baby Lee
06-11-2009, 08:53 AM
jezzzz you guys are whack. I spent a year and a half living in Israel but you don't think that I realize there are non-white Jews?

did you know that those non-white Jews you point out in your URL actually outnumber white jews now?
.
users with operant grey matter quickly realize that a LTGTFY link is prima facie a tongue in cheek response to a post

stevieray
06-11-2009, 09:00 AM
typical from the intolerant left..don't you dare lump all Muslims together from one radical....but Christians or Conservatives? you bet...

I wondering if some of you would turn on your own family, if it met your political needs.

stevieray
06-11-2009, 09:02 AM
jezzzz you guys are whack. I spent a year and a half living in Israel but you don't think that I realize there are non-white Jews?


ya we know, you keep btinging it up every other day...:rolleyes:


and how long ago was that? it reminds of Dane thinking he has the MW pegged, becuase he lived here YEARS ago.

dirk digler
06-11-2009, 09:14 AM
typical from the intolerant left..don't you dare lump all Muslims together from one radical....but Christians or Conservatives? you bet...

I wondering if some of you would turn on your own family, if it met your political needs.

I am certainly not lumping all conservatives together just like I would hope you don't lump all liberals together with the lunatics from the far-left.

But the DHS report was pretty accurate and that is why I started this thread.

dirk digler
06-11-2009, 09:16 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/10/AR2009061003495_pf.html

A Suspect's Long History of Hate, and Signs of Strain


By Darryl Fears and Marc Fisher


Washington Post Staff Writers


Thursday, June 11, 2009

James W. von Brunn was growing despondent.

John de Nugent, an acquaintance who describes himself as a white separatist, noticed the change when they last spoke two weeks ago.

"He said his Social Security had been cut and that he was barely making it," de Nugent said. "He felt it was the direct result of someone in Washington looking at his Web site."

In one of his e-mail blasts expressing his white supremacist views, the man police sources say shot and killed a security guard yesterday at the U.S.

Holocaust Memorial Museum told readers that they shouldn't expect to hear from him again. Von Brunn was shot and critically wounded by museum guards.

He was about to give away his computer, his primary connection to the fringe world of radical racists. He was living hand to mouth.

The e-mails were getting violent in tone: "It's time to kill all the Jews."

Von Brunn, who lives in Annapolis, was known for decades to fellow white supremacists who read his elaborate conspiracy theories on his Web site and met him through a network of radical racist groups. He was smart enough to join Mensa, but even admirers considered him a loner, a hothead and a man consumed with hatred.

As an avowed white supremacist and anti-Semite, von Brunn was tracked by civil rights groups.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate groups, has kept an eye on him since 1981. Lately, it has focused on his Web site, www.holywesternempire.org (http://www.holywesternempire.org). Von Brunn, 88, worked at Noontide Press, a California-based distributor of books on the "Jewish Question."

His book, "Kill the Best Gentiles," is a screed against the Talmud and is dedicated to Revilo Oliver, a well-known denier of the Holocaust. Von Brunn's writings condemning "Negroes" and Jews were prolific.

"We had multiple entries on this guy," said Heidi Beirich, the center's director of research.

Von Brunn's neighbors said yesterday that they invited him to their home for a drink recently. Apropos of nothing, they said, he raised his belief that the Holocaust did not occur.

Todd Blodgett, a former Reagan White House aide who later worked with several extremist groups, met regularly with von Brunn in the 1990s and early 2000s.

"Von Brunn is obsessed with Jewish people," Blodgett said. "He had equal contempt for both Jews and blacks, but if he had to pick one group to wipe out, he'd always say it would be Jews."

Blodgett was part-owner of Resistance Records, which distributed music by white racist groups, and worked for Willis Carto, the founder of Liberty Lobby, a radical right group.

According to Blodgett and a Washington lawyer who met with FBI and IRS agents who used Blodgett as an informant on white supremacist groups, Blodgett worked as a paid informer for federal investigators early this decade.

Von Brunn apparently supported himself through much of the 1980s and '90s by distributing copies of the Spotlight, the Liberty Lobby's racist newspaper. "A lot of people like Von Brunn made some good money taking those around to senior homes, restaurants, gun shows and places like that," Blodgett said.

Blodgett said that he never filed reports to the FBI specifically about Von Brunn but that "he was probably around when I was wired."

In his conversations with Von Brunn, "you'd get the impression that he was intelligent and a bit off. . . . He was much more adept at understanding the Internet than any other white supremacist of that generation," Blodgett said. "He was very, very interested in the potential for Resistance Records to bring in a new generation of supremacists who were a cut above the knuckle-dragger types."

Von Brunn sometimes spoke of having fought for the wrong side in World War II, Blodgett said, and the two men sometimes attended meetings in Arlington County of the American Friends of the British National Party, which raised funds for the British white supremacist group.

Blodgett said that von Brunn never spoke of violent action in their conversations but that "a lot of these people, when they get toward the end of life, they say they've wasted all these years hating, and they want to make a statement somehow."

Von Brunn's ex-wife said she divorced him about 30 years ago when she could no longer take his racist beliefs.

"When he talked about [race], he would get verbally abusive because I didn't really want to talk about it," said the 69-year-old woman, who lives in Florida and said she would speak to reporters if they would agree not to name her. "It was always against the Jews and the blacks."

The woman said she had not talked to authorities about the man she was married to for a decade.

"We absolutely detested his beliefs," she said. "I am disheartened the young guard was killed."

She said von Brunn once predicted that he would "go out with his boots on."

On Dec. 7, 1981, he walked into the Federal Reserve headquarters on Constitution Avenue NW with a handgun and threatened to take members of the Board of Governors, including then-Chairman Paul A. Volcker, hostage.

Police said he had an 11-page document, which he characterized as an exposé of an "international bankers' conspiracy to rule all nations from one central seat of government." Court records said he intended to place them under citizens arrest and charge them with treason.

At his trial, von Brunn said that his goal was to "deport all Jews and blacks from the white nations" and that statistics on IQs of black and white Americans "proved that there is one race that is better than another." He also testified that "Jews were the greatest liars that have ever afflicted mankind."

He was convicted of armed kidnapping, among other charges, and sentenced to a minimum of nearly four years up to a maximum of 11 years and three months at the Ray Brook federal prison in Upstate New York. The court also requested a psychological evaluation for Brunn while in prison.

After his release, von Brunn joined Mensa, the society for top scorers on intelligence tests. A Mensa official said von Brunn was dropped from membership for failure to pay dues.

De Nugent called von Brunn a genius but described the shooting as the act of "a loner and a hothead."

"The responsible white separatist community condemns this," he said. "It makes us look bad."

irishjayhawk
06-11-2009, 09:34 AM
typical from the intolerant left..don't you dare lump all Muslims together from one radical....but Christians or Conservatives? you bet...

I wondering if some of you would turn on your own family, if it met your political needs.

Victim card, what's new?

blaise
06-11-2009, 09:37 AM
Victim card, what's new?

So true. The Democrats haven't ever solicited votes by playing to a victim mentality, so please everyone show the same type of integrity they would.

stevieray
06-11-2009, 09:54 AM
Victim card, what's new?

ijh wears them home, what's new?

***SPRAYER
06-11-2009, 10:43 AM
Von Brunn was a 9/11 Troofer.

He was an anti Semite.

He was a Holocaust denier.

He was anti-Christian, claiming that Christianity brought the downfall of the Roman Empire and that Christianity was a hoax.

He was also was anti-Bush.

Sounds to me like this guy should had gotten his own shown on MSNBC.

HC_Chief
06-11-2009, 10:44 AM
Von Brunn was a 9/11 Troofer.

He was an anti Semite.

He was a Holocaust denier.

He was anti-Christian, claiming that Christianity brought the downfall of the Roman Empire and that Christianity was a hoax.

He was also was anti-Bush.

Sounds to me like this guy should had gotten his own shown on MSNBC.

LOL

***SPRAYER
06-11-2009, 10:45 AM
Von Brunn was a 9/11 Troofer.

He was an anti Semite.

He was a Holocaust denier.

He was anti-Christian, claiming that Christianity brought the downfall of the Roman Empire and that Christianity was a hoax.

He was also was anti-Bush.

Sounds to me like this guy should had gotten his own shown on MSNBC.

I mean, my first guess was it was Dave Loon.

Taco John
06-11-2009, 10:50 AM
What counts as anti-Semitic these days?


If you like at least two of the following three, you're not an anti-semite:

Jerry Seinfeld
Jon Stewart
Woody Allen

Baby Lee
06-11-2009, 11:02 AM
If you like at least two of the following three, you're not an anti-semite:

Jerry Seinfeld
Jon Stewart
Woody Allen

like = enjoy their work
or
like = think they are stellar humans?

Adept Havelock
06-11-2009, 03:31 PM
That's sort of like the people that attempt to conflate a lack of blind support for liberal social policies for being racist.

Agreed. Both are worthy of contempt, IMNSHO.

irishjayhawk
06-11-2009, 04:42 PM
If you like at least two of the following three, you're not an anti-semite:

Jerry Seinfeld
Jon Stewart
Woody Allen

Well, I'm covered.

MOhillbilly
06-11-2009, 04:55 PM
Is there some vast, anti-jewish left-oriented group I'm unaware of?

communists

penchief
06-11-2009, 05:00 PM
Most of the anti-semitism I have encountered in my life has come from leftists.

I have to guess that you're making that up.

penchief
06-11-2009, 05:06 PM
Victim card, what's new?

stevieray caught playing the victim card? Naw...can't be. That would be pretty ironic considering he makes a living out of accusing others of doing so. However, it is good of you to remind him of how easy it is to attack the character and/or motives of others as a cheap substitute for honest debate.

BucEyedPea
06-11-2009, 06:07 PM
James W. von Brunn hated neocons...
There's some good in everyone. ;)

banyon
06-11-2009, 07:09 PM
Man, this guy sure sounds like a big time left winger.

"The Holocaust is a lie. Obama was created by Jews. Obama does what Jew owners tell him to do. Jews captured America's money. Jews control the mass media. The 1st Amendment is abrogated --henceforth," von Brunn wrote, according to an FBI agent's affidavit.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/11/museum.shooting.suspect.two/

banyon
06-11-2009, 07:13 PM
communists

I don't think this guy fits that bill:

Von Brunn's Web site promoted his book, "Kill the Best Gentiles," in which he claimed the Jewish-led "Illuminati" and Jewish figures such as Sigmund Freud and Karl Marx worked "to destroy Western civilization and the Aryan nation that created it."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/11/museum.shooting.suspect.two/

KILLER_CLOWN
06-11-2009, 07:51 PM
Man, this guy sure sounds like a big time left winger.

"The Holocaust is a lie. Obama was created by Jews. Obama does what Jew owners tell him to do. Jews captured America's money. Jews control the mass media. The 1st Amendment is abrogated --henceforth," von Brunn wrote, according to an FBI agent's affidavit.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/11/museum.shooting.suspect.two/

I guess that eliminates him from being a 9/11 truther.

orange
06-11-2009, 08:54 PM
I guess that eliminates him from being a 9/11 truther.

No, but being a 9/11 Truther doesn't make him a leftist.

Does this sound familiar?

Addendum: Holocaust Museum Shooter “9/11 Truther”

A sampling of things to come in regard to Von Brunn can be sampled in a post on the Examiner website. Kathy Shaidle, a neocon follower of former Marxist David Horowitz, writes that the elderly James von Brunn was a “truther” and — here is the remarkable part — his avowed white supremacy is an attribute of the “left,” not the “right.”

Ms. Shaidle is determined to stretch the false right-left paradigm out of shape in order to dump the emerging image of Von Brunn on her ideological enemies. According to this poor deluded young woman, “James von Brunn’s advocacy of 9/11 conspiracy theories also gives him an additional commonality with individuals on the far-left.”

In fact, members of the so-called “far-left” dismiss out of hand the fact the attack launched on September 11, 2001, was an inside job, as evidenced by the public pronouncements of Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn. But then Horowitz and his minions are certainly not beyond twisting the facts in order to mischaracterize and slander their opponents. A rather obvious example of this twisting and delusional thinking can be witnessed in Horowitz’s assertion that the globalist George Soros is a Marxist.

It would seem Horowitz and his small stable of neocons have a lot in common with the Department of Homeland Security, not surprising really when you consider that Horowitz’s operation is funded and supported by the CIA operative Richard Mellon Scaife.
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5833050&postcount=60


You don't even read the stuff you post here, do you? Tell the truth - Google pays you to post those links, don't they?

KILLER_CLOWN
06-11-2009, 09:07 PM
No, but being a 9/11 Truther doesn't make him a leftist.

Does this sound familiar?

Addendum: Holocaust Museum Shooter “9/11 Truther”

A sampling of things to come in regard to Von Brunn can be sampled in a post on the Examiner website. Kathy Shaidle, a neocon follower of former Marxist David Horowitz, writes that the elderly James von Brunn was a “truther” and — here is the remarkable part — his avowed white supremacy is an attribute of the “left,” not the “right.”

Ms. Shaidle is determined to stretch the false right-left paradigm out of shape in order to dump the emerging image of Von Brunn on her ideological enemies. According to this poor deluded young woman, “James von Brunn’s advocacy of 9/11 conspiracy theories also gives him an additional commonality with individuals on the far-left.”

In fact, members of the so-called “far-left” dismiss out of hand the fact the attack launched on September 11, 2001, was an inside job, as evidenced by the public pronouncements of Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn. But then Horowitz and his minions are certainly not beyond twisting the facts in order to mischaracterize and slander their opponents. A rather obvious example of this twisting and delusional thinking can be witnessed in Horowitz’s assertion that the globalist George Soros is a Marxist.

It would seem Horowitz and his small stable of neocons have a lot in common with the Department of Homeland Security, not surprising really when you consider that Horowitz’s operation is funded and supported by the CIA operative Richard Mellon Scaife.
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5833050&postcount=60


You don't even read the stuff you post here, do you? Tell the truth - Google pays you to post those links, don't they?

You got me, I am a Bilderberger and co-founder of Google. :drool:

Sorry the 9/11 truth movement is totally non violent, now he may have known 9/11 was an inside job but that could also mean he works for the CIA.

patteeu
06-12-2009, 08:16 AM
Man, this guy sure sounds like a big time left winger.

"The Holocaust is a lie. Obama was created by Jews. Obama does what Jew owners tell him to do. Jews captured America's money. Jews control the mass media. The 1st Amendment is abrogated --henceforth," von Brunn wrote, according to an FBI agent's affidavit.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/11/museum.shooting.suspect.two/

Your bolded part sounds like it came right out of Jeremiah Wright's mouth.

***SPRAYER
06-12-2009, 10:32 AM
I have to guess that you're making that up.

Translates as "Brilliant Comrade."

banyon
06-12-2009, 11:59 AM
Your bolded part sounds like it came right out of Jeremiah Wright's mouth.

When did Rev. Wright start bad-mouthing Obama?

***SPRAYER
06-12-2009, 12:01 PM
When did Rev. Wright start bad-mouthing Obama?

You dig Rev. Wright, don't you?

:LOL:

Silly moonbat.

Baby Lee
06-12-2009, 12:17 PM
When did Rev. Wright start bad-mouthing Obama?

Not bad-mouthing Obama, but there has already been a link and a mention in this thread about Wright saying them Jews aren't gonna let Obama and him talk while Obama's president, which seems fairly concordant with Obama doing what his Jew owners tell him.

patteeu
06-12-2009, 02:59 PM
When did Rev. Wright start bad-mouthing Obama?

I don't know when he started, but I think his recent comments about how Obama is being controlled to one extent or another by "the Jews" is a form of bad-mouthing. :shrug:

But on the bright side, he loves Obama like a son, even though sometimes kids make mistakes and sometimes they fall in with the wrong crowd. Or so he says.

Garcia Bronco
06-12-2009, 03:02 PM
Most white supremacists are radical right-wingers and that isn't anything new that has been known for a long time.

Anyway 2 very serious incidents\killings in the last 2 weeks makes everyone that said that the DHS report was shit look kind of silly now.

Nazi's were leftists for a time. Socialists to be specific.

wild1
06-12-2009, 03:04 PM
I don't know when he started, but I think his recent comments about how Obama is being controlled to one extent or another by "the Jews" is a form of bad-mouthing. :shrug:

But on the bright side, he loves Obama like a son, even though sometimes kids make mistakes and sometimes they fall in with the wrong crowd. Or so he says.

And sometimes they ask you to officiate their wedding, attend your church for 20 years, write lovingly about you in their books, and then act like they don't have a clue who you are or what you stand for once you become a PR liability.

patteeu
06-12-2009, 03:33 PM
And sometimes they ask you to officiate their wedding, attend your church for 20 years, write lovingly about you in their books, and then act like they don't have a clue who you are or what you stand for once you become a PR liability.

LMAO

***SPRAYER
06-12-2009, 04:45 PM
And sometimes they ask you to officiate their wedding, attend your church for 20 years, write lovingly about you in their books, and then act like they don't have a clue who you are or what you stand for once you become a PR liability.

WHITE PEOPLES GREED RULES A WORLD IN NEED

ROFL

And Banyon voted for that asshole. LMAO