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Stewie
06-11-2009, 11:35 AM
Feds Freeze Poker Champ's Winnings

Federal Officials Order Banks to Freeze Millions in Online Poker Winnings

By RUSSELL GOLDMAN

June 11, 2009


On the Sunday before Memorial Day, David made the big time.
Winning $10,000 in an online poker tournament (http://newspreview.corp.dig.com/Technology/story?id=3752500&page=1) made him eligible for the upcoming World Series of Poker, the game's premier event, where hundreds of players -- amateur and professional -- descend on Las Vegas from around the world to play for a multimillion-dollar pot.

To register, he simply had to cash a check (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/MellodyHobson/Story?id=198293&page=2) cut by a company that processed payments for the poker Web site Pokerstars.com and use the $10,000 to buy into the series.

When he went to cash the check from Account Services Wednesday, it bounced, he said.

What David, a 41-year-old from Virginia who spoke on the condition that ABC News use only his first name, initially thought was a glitch turned out to be part of an unprecedented government crackdown on online poker (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=7796735) that affected some 27,000 people.

Late last week, the federal government ordered five banks to freeze a total of $30 million in payments owed to the players from companies that process payments from two offshore gambling sites, according to the Poker Players Alliance, a group that represents the interests of the companies and players.

"It's not like the government went after money that the site made, instead they seized money that belonged to me," David said. "There is no law that restricts citizens from recovering money."

According to the alliance, federal prosecutors working out of New York's Southern District ordered Citibank (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Economy/wireStory?id=6970298), Wells Fargo (http://abcnews.go.com/abcnews.go.com/Business/MarketTalk/wireStory?id=7296866) and three smaller banks to freeze funds in accounts belonging to Allied Systems and Account Services, companies that process funds for the poker sites.

Some affected players who gamble at the popular sites FullTiltPoker.com and PokerStars.com first realized they could not access funds in their accounts over the weekend when checks issued from the companies bounced.

Online poker, a $9 billion to $12 billion a year industry, is legally a gray area, experts told ABCNews.com. Washington is the only state with a law on its books that bans residents from playing on the Internet. The sites themselves, however, are not allowed to operate in the United States and are all registered overseas.


http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=7808131

Mr. Flopnuts
06-11-2009, 11:43 AM
LOL Anything to fuck people over. They gotta pay for these bailouts somehow, and tax money just isn't cutting it.

CoMoChief
06-11-2009, 11:51 AM
Gotta love big government.

Sooner or later the govt will be monitoring everything we do in our daily lives.

Govt taking over the banks.....check
Govt taking over Big American corporations.....check
Govt taking over Health care.......pending but it will come sooner or later.

sedated
06-11-2009, 11:56 AM
I don't see what the gubment hopes to get out of this, unless they just keep the money for themselves. Its probably illegal - which makes it even more likely.

mikeyis4dcats.
06-11-2009, 11:56 AM
not really surprising. The gov't cracked down on this a couple of years ago, restricting payment methods they were using at that time. Like it or not, gambling is ILLEGAL in the US except where allowed by law, and I'm betting David's basement isn't an indian reservation.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-11-2009, 12:08 PM
I'm just glad there's someone out there to protect me from me!!!

Buck
06-11-2009, 12:09 PM
Doesn't the government have anything better to do?

Brock
06-11-2009, 12:12 PM
Wait until you see the audit rates after this year.

crazycoffey
06-11-2009, 02:43 PM
I don't like the idea of gambling online anyway, I've gone on fulltilt and played in freerolls, but that's it. If I'm putting money on the table, real money, I want the table, players, cards and dealer to be real.

Lumpy
06-11-2009, 02:51 PM
Grrrrrrrrr!! Oh, I mean that's horrible for all the ppl that have real money in their bankroll on those type of sites. :banghead:

KCChiefsMan
06-11-2009, 02:51 PM
Now I'm not a fan of online poker. I did well at first then it seemed that no matter how well I played I lost it all back from bad beats. I wanna say that 80% of the time in a crucial part of a tourney or a big cash pot, I put my chips in with a 70-80% chance of winning the hand after the flop and would lose 80% of the time. Maybe I'm just not good at online poker, but most of the hands I lost I was a huge favorite before or after the flop and then I'd be out of the tourney.

I do really well when I go to the casino and play live tourney's or cash games. When I lived in OKC there was a tournament every night with about 50 ppl for $60-100 buy in and I had a streak of 9 times in a row to make the final 5 and make the money.

so fuck online poker. I know there are bad beats and you see more hands, but seriously. How many times did I lose to a bigger stack when I had pocket Queens vs his pocket 5's for example. Or the endless miracle runner/runners that flushed away my flopped straights.

but I do think it's complete and utter BS that the government is stealing money from it's citizens like that. Thats really bad, there is no reason for it except for greed. More proof that this country doesn't give 2 shits about it's people and they only care about their money.

wild1
06-11-2009, 02:53 PM
for every 1 david who couldn't get money from the poker websites, there's 100 degenerate gamblers who had no problem getting money to them

BWillie
06-11-2009, 02:56 PM
Now I'm not a fan of online poker. I did well at first then it seemed that no matter how well I played I lost it all back from bad beats. I wanna say that 80% of the time in a crucial part of a tourney or a big cash pot, I put my chips in with a 70-80% chance of winning the hand after the flop and would lose 80% of the time. Maybe I'm just not good at online poker, but most of the hands I lost I was a huge favorite before or after the flop and then I'd be out of the tourney.

I do really well when I go to the casino and play live tourney's or cash games. When I lived in OKC there was a tournament every night with about 50 ppl for $60-100 buy in and I had a streak of 9 times in a row to make the final 5 and make the money.

so **** online poker. I know there are bad beats and you see more hands, but seriously. How many times did I lose to a bigger stack when I had pocket Queens vs his pocket 5's for example. Or the endless miracle runner/runners that flushed away my flopped straights.

but I do think it's complete and utter BS that the government is stealing money from it's citizens like that. Thats really bad, there is no reason for it except for greed. More proof that this country doesn't give 2 shits about it's people and they only care about their money.

Hate to break it to you, but except for a limited # of cases online poker is not rigged. People are WAY better online than in the casino. I can go to any live poker room and demolish any 1/2 no limit game on a Friday or Saturday night. I can break about even playing .50/1 no limit online. Think about it, you go to your local casino you play against drunks, young dumb college kids, and old guys that won't bet unless they have AA. It isn't even in online poker casino's best interest to allow cheating, in fact, it should be the opposite. They want more fish and more newbies to the game, if anything, they would rig the game against the players that play 8 tables at once 40 hrs a week. Additionally, I used to use pokertracker and play all the time. It literally keeps stats all players, situations, and cards you will get. I noticed nothing out of the ordinary once I got a large enough sample size of hands, and many other online poker players can attest to the same.

It is a complete travesty though that the government is freezing these funds. Why the hell do they care. It's poker. Everything against "gambling". Like the stock market isn't a gamble. Like buying a crappy house and trying to flip it isn't a gamble. Some people have about 100K in their accounts online. Most of them are smart enough to leave only enough to use because they know the government is keeping watchful eye but this is ridiculous.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-11-2009, 02:58 PM
I don't like the idea of gambling online anyway, I've gone on fulltilt and played in freerolls, but that's it. If I'm putting money on the table, real money, I want the table, players, cards and dealer to be real.

No offense to you CC, because what I'm about to say applies to most everybody who have a pulse. It's just interesting to me that we have come to a point in society where unless something personally affects us, we don't give a shit. The government must absolutely love it. I mean, before long they'll have control over everything since there isn't anything that affects EVERYONE.

KCChiefsMan
06-11-2009, 02:58 PM
for every 1 david who couldn't get money from the poker websites, there's 100,000,000,000 degenerate gamblers who had no problem getting money to them

FYP

I couldn't get my money out of full tilt when I put in $50 and then a week later it was over $1,000. They said I need to send them a copy or scan of my license and a credit card bill. So I did just that. Then they told me they can't send money to kansas. Then I bitched more, then they said that they need another copy of my license and a different credit card bill statement.

Apparently I'm the only one who has had trouble, because I went to some online poker forums to bitch about it and was told that I must be a terrible poker player and nobody ever has had a problem getting money out. So, stupidly I continued to play more and eventually lost it all back....VERY stupid of me.

wild1
06-11-2009, 03:00 PM
FYP

I couldn't get my money out of full tilt when I put in $50 and then a week later it was over $1,000. They said I need to send them a copy or scan of my license and a credit card bill. So I did just that. Then they told me they can't send money to kansas. Then I bitched more, then they said that they need another copy of my license and a different credit card bill statement.

Apparently I'm the only one who has had trouble, because I went to some online poker forums to bitch about it and was told that I must be a terrible poker player and nobody ever has had a problem getting money out. So, stupidly I continued to play more and eventually lost it all back....VERY stupid of me.

I jumped through a bunch of hoops several years back with an offshore sportsbook. Basically, I had turned $50 into over $1000 and was ready to get out. By the time I actually got my money from them, the check was like 60% of what I thought I'd "won" due to all the BS built into the agreement.

KCChiefsMan
06-11-2009, 03:01 PM
Hate to break it to you, but except for a limited # of cases online poker is not rigged. People are WAY better online than in the casino. I can go to any live poker room and demolish any 1/2 no limit game on a Friday or Saturday night. I can break about even playing .50/1 no limit online. Think about it, you go to your local casino you play against drunks, young dumb college kids, and old guys that won't bet unless they have AA. It isn't even in online poker casino's best interest to allow cheating, in fact, it should be the opposite. They want more fish and more newbies to the game, if anything, they would rig the game against the players that play 8 tables at once 40 hrs a week. Additionally, I used to use pokertracker and play all the time. It literally keeps stats all players, situations, and cards you will get. I noticed nothing out of the ordinary once I got a large enough sample size of hands, and many other online poker players can attest to the same.

It is a complete travesty though that the government is freezing these funds. Why the hell do they care. It's poker. Everything against "gambling". Like the stock market isn't a gamble. Like buying a crappy house and trying to flip it isn't a gamble. Some people have about 100K in their accounts online. Most of them are smart enough to leave only enough to use because they know the government is keeping watchful eye but this is ridiculous.


I agree that it's ridiculous what the gov't is doing. I'm just stating my hate for online poker. But there would be interest to alter the odds a little bit for them, since they make money off of rake and all. Maybe I'm just the most unlucky person alive. I don't know if they are better, they are more aggressive for sure which also may be a good case for more bad beats. More idiots calling when they shouldn't create more bad beats....I dunno

Kyle DeLexus
06-11-2009, 03:09 PM
FYP

I couldn't get my money out of full tilt when I put in $50 and then a week later it was over $1,000. They said I need to send them a copy or scan of my license and a credit card bill. So I did just that. Then they told me they can't send money to kansas. Then I bitched more, then they said that they need another copy of my license and a different credit card bill statement.

Apparently I'm the only one who has had trouble, because I went to some online poker forums to bitch about it and was told that I must be a terrible poker player and nobody ever has had a problem getting money out. So, stupidly I continued to play more and eventually lost it all back....VERY stupid of me.

I'm in KS and had no problem getting my money from Bodog. Now I think you have to send a copy of your license and a voided check so they can send it to you account, but I'm not sure on that. Before I got my check in like 4 weeks and went to the bank and cashed it.

KCChiefsMan
06-11-2009, 03:10 PM
I'm in KS and had no problem getting my money from Bodog. Now I think you have to send a copy of your license and a voided check so they can send it to you account, but I'm not sure on that. Before I got my check in like 4 weeks and went to the bank and cashed it.

I dunno, I did everything they asked me to do and they still wouldn't send me my money.

Arsonist
06-11-2009, 03:13 PM
I can just see congress now, " so guys our economy is in the shitter, so lets figure out a way to stop people from making a little extra money on the side. Oh I know lets worry about people playing poker online since we don't have anything else really to worry about."

mikeyis4dcats.
06-11-2009, 03:23 PM
Hate to break it to you, but except for a limited # of cases online poker is not rigged. People are WAY better online than in the casino. I can go to any live poker room and demolish any 1/2 no limit game on a Friday or Saturday night. I can break about even playing .50/1 no limit online. Think about it, you go to your local casino you play against drunks, young dumb college kids, and old guys that won't bet unless they have AA. It isn't even in online poker casino's best interest to allow cheating, in fact, it should be the opposite. They want more fish and more newbies to the game, if anything, they would rig the game against the players that play 8 tables at once 40 hrs a week. Additionally, I used to use pokertracker and play all the time. It literally keeps stats all players, situations, and cards you will get. I noticed nothing out of the ordinary once I got a large enough sample size of hands, and many other online poker players can attest to the same.

It is a complete travesty though that the government is freezing these funds. Why the hell do they care. It's poker. Everything against "gambling". Like the stock market isn't a gamble. Like buying a crappy house and trying to flip it isn't a gamble. Some people have about 100K in their accounts online. Most of them are smart enough to leave only enough to use because they know the government is keeping watchful eye but this is ridiculous.

years ago it was rigged in many cases. Before they figured out how to prevent it, one user could be playing multiple hands at a single table against a single player giving him an unfair advantage. That was how many people made big bucks back in the day...

Kyle DeLexus
06-11-2009, 03:26 PM
I can just see congress now, " so guys our economy is in the shitter, so lets figure out a way to stop people from making a little extra money on the side. Oh I know lets worry about people playing poker online since we don't have anything else really to worry about."


This could be step one in the government taking over all US online gambling. :shrug:

Maybe they are going to legalize gambling everywhere and tax the shit out of it.

sedated
06-11-2009, 03:32 PM
I can just see congress now, " so guys our economy is in the shitter,"

except when the economy is in the shitter, the only way to get out is to get people spending more. this has the opposite effect. if they gave 2 shits about the economy, they would have waited at least a year to pull this crap.

wild1
06-11-2009, 03:46 PM
I can just see congress now, " so guys our economy is in the shitter, so lets figure out a way to stop people from making a little extra money on the side. Oh I know lets worry about people playing poker online since we don't have anything else really to worry about."

The government is like that direct TV commercial where the cable company guys are sitting around a table trying to figure out how to make more money.

"Well, we could improve our service, but I have a better idea. We can improve our prices. We can make them higher!"

wild1
06-11-2009, 03:46 PM
years ago it was rigged in many cases. Before they figured out how to prevent it, one user could be playing multiple hands at a single table against a single player giving him an unfair advantage. That was how many people made big bucks back in the day...

What prevents multiple people working in concert from playing at the same table, on order to fleece people who aren't part of the scam?

orange
06-11-2009, 03:52 PM
The government is like that direct TV commercial where the cable company guys are sitting around a table trying to figure out how to make more money.

"Well, we could improve our service, but I have a better idea. We can improve our prices. We can make them higher!"

The Poker Players Alliance, which is funded by its poker player members and the Interactive Gaming Council, a Vancouver, British Columbia-based trade association for online casinos, plans to spend $3 million lobbying this congressional session. The group supports legislation by Rep. Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat who chairs the House Financial Services Committee, that would regulate rather than ban Internet gambling.

At least half the $16 billion Internet gambling industry, which is largely hosted on overseas sites, is estimated to be fueled by U.S. bettors.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/WireStory?id=7796735&page=2


:evil:

chiefsfan1128
06-11-2009, 04:28 PM
not really surprising. The gov't cracked down on this a couple of years ago, restricting payment methods they were using at that time. Like it or not, gambling is ILLEGAL in the US except where allowed by law, and I'm betting David's basement isn't an indian reservation.

WRONG......U.S. Constitution Amendment 10....powers not delegated to the national government nor prohibited to the states are reserved to the states or the people.
As the Constitution does not ban gambling, Congress has no LEGAL authority to determine which states/areas can legally gamble(indian reservations, Las Vegas, Alantic City, WV etc,etc).
States Rights
High School civics 101.
Posted via Mobile Device

CrazyPhuD
06-11-2009, 04:36 PM
WRONG......U.S. Constitution Amendment 10....powers not delegated to the national government nor prohibited to the states are reserved to the states or the people.
As the Constitution does not ban gambling, Congress has no LEGAL authority to determine which states/areas can legally gamble(indian reservations, Las Vegas, Alantic City, WV etc,etc).
States Rights
High School civics 101.
Posted via Mobile Device

Actually like it or not they do under Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

If this isn't regulating commerce among the states/Foreign Nations I don't know what is...considering they are all based overseas.

Gambling within a state congress may not be able to ban, but gambling across state lines they most definitely can. I don't think anyone can doubt that internet gambling with casinos in other countries falls under this clause.

That is civics 101.

Kyle DeLexus
06-11-2009, 04:40 PM
Actually like it or not they do under Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

If this isn't regulating commerce among the states/Foreign Nations I don't know what is...considering they are all based overseas.

Gambling within a state congress may not be able to ban, but gambling across state lines they most definitely can. I don't think anyone can doubt that internet gambling with casinos in other countries falls under this clause.

That is civics 101.

Thats the grey area. There is no specific law that states you can't do it and one could argue that your not gambling across state lines.

orange
06-11-2009, 04:46 PM
Here's a discussion of the actual law - Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 - if anyone's interested:

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Federal-Laws/internet-gambling-ban.htm

Key points:


Placing illegal bets is not criminalized, but receiving any funds for bets is.

Online betting is illegal if the same bet would violate any law (state or federal) in the jurisdiction where the bet is placed or received.

CrazyPhuD
06-11-2009, 04:49 PM
Thats the grey area. There is no specific law that states you can't do it and one could argue that your not gambling across state lines.

Actually no it's not. This is one of the few as black and white cases as their are when it comes to explicit government powers. The litmus test is extremely simple, if I run a casino on the internet and people outside of my state CAN use it, even if they don't, then I am subject to regulation under the interstate commerce clause. Because at that point activity is crossing across state lines either the network information that allows me to play or the money I bet/win.

The only way an internet casino could justify existence not under federal regulation would be if it is operated solely within the confines of a single state(that permits it) and only those states residents could play. Given the nature of the internet this would be almost impossible to create.

We may not like it, but this use of power is explicitly permitted within the context of the constitution.

orange
06-11-2009, 05:04 PM
From that analysis I linked earlier (from Oct. 13, 2006) http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Federal-Laws/internet-gambling-ban.htm:


Here is a statement made by Jeffrey Pollock, Harrah's vice president of sports and entertainment marketing and its World Series of Poker Commissioner: "I honestly haven't spent much time thinking about what the (poker) dot-coms do or don't do because we're not in business with them.... First of all, we do not accept money from any dot-com site. If an individual is registered by a third party, that third party signs an affidavit saying the funds did not come from illegal sources. So we are not in business with dot-com sites." Surely that remark is breathtakingly disingenuous. Something approaching half of the $88,000,000 in entry fees Harrah's took in for the championship event at the 2006 World Series of Poker came from the dot.com online poker cardrooms. The payments were thinly disguised as coming from advertising agencies for those dot.com sites or from the Trojan horse dot.net sites run by those online cardrooms. There can be no doubt that Harrah's actually knew the true source of the funds that paid for those 4,400 or more entries. This is especially so in light of the fact that none of the dot.net sites have any way of making any money since they are all free play sites. Could anyone honestly think that the advertising agencies paid in money of their own?

The ludicrous nature of Commissioner Pollock's PR-spin is demonstrated by the recent information Harrah's has given to the online cardrooms that it will not be accepting third-party registrations for the 2007 World Series of Poker events. One observer expressed the view that the main event at next year's World Series of Poker would draw fewer than 2,200 players, a drop in attendance of some 75%.

Additionally, one of the online cardrooms, FullTiltPoker.com, has announced: "Unfortunately due to the upcoming change in legislation Full Tilt Poker will no longer be able to satellite US residents into live tournaments in US. This policy will be effective immediately."


In other words, they fully understood the implications of the law, announced they would shut down the exact operations that were hit today, then somehow didn't do it. Hilarious! ROFL

chiefsfan1128
06-11-2009, 05:24 PM
commerce
1 : social intercourse : interchange of ideas, opinions, or sentiments 2 : the exchange or buying and selling of commodities on a large scale involving transportation from place to place(merriam-webster).

Semantics maybe, but I don't view gambling as commerce.
It is not a commodity that is bought and sold.
Posted via Mobile Device

mikey23545
06-11-2009, 05:33 PM
Chains you can believe in.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-11-2009, 05:33 PM
LMAO I haven't heard that one, that's pretty good.

crazycoffey
06-11-2009, 06:15 PM
It's just interesting to me that we have come to a point in society where unless something personally affects us, we don't give a shit.


You think that just now became the case?

I'm not very knowledged on the topic of online gambling. I saw an earlier post (not from you) saying that usually the programs aren't rigged, but I guess I'd want to know if there are governing bodies to ensure the product is fair to the consumer. That's if there aren't laws forbiding online gambling to begin with. Also, the amount of fees to even run a casino is outragous (here in St. Louis), why is that? Do the online casino have to pay these fees?

Mr. Flopnuts
06-11-2009, 08:23 PM
You think that just now became the case?

I'm not very knowledged on the topic of online gambling. I saw an earlier post (not from you) saying that usually the programs aren't rigged, but I guess I'd want to know if there are governing bodies to ensure the product is fair to the consumer. That's if there aren't laws forbiding online gambling to begin with. Also, the amount of fees to even run a casino is outragous (here in St. Louis), why is that? Do the online casino have to pay these fees?

No, it's been that way for a long time. It's just been affecting me more than usual and it's raising my awareness to everything else. I fear it's already too late though.

Online gambling is illegal, so the fact that it's going on would leave me to believe it's entirely unregulated. It doesn't concern me though, because their profits come from more players. There have been cheating instances, and they've come out. That hurts their business a ton since they're going for rake. They make tons of money being straight up, and it's a chance I'm willing to take. Who's to tell me what to do with my money as if I'm some kind of degenerate that can't control myself? I just find it asinine that we continue to call ourselves the land of the free. It's less true every, single day IMO.

Dartgod
06-11-2009, 09:51 PM
Online gambling is illegal.
This is absolutely, positively untrue.

Transferring funds for online gambling is illegal in the USA, but the act of gambling itself is NOT illegal.

Title VIII of the Act is also known as the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (or UIGEA). This title (found at 31 U.S.C. 5361–5367) prohibits the transfer of funds from a financial institution to an Internet gambling site, with the notable exceptions of fantasy sports, online lotteries, and horse/harness racing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFE_Port_Act#Internet_gambling_provisions

In a nutshell, U.S. legislation about online gambling has been and continues to be very unclear. We always said, the main point to remember is that no federal law exists preventing U.S. citizens from engaging in online gambling or any related activity. And, even after the UIGEA, this essentially remains the case.

http://www.gamblingplanet.org/legality_main.php

googlegoogle
06-12-2009, 01:19 AM
The whole purpose of government now is to take money from people and then redistribute it to their electorate.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-12-2009, 02:37 PM
This is absolutely, positively untrue.

Transferring funds for online gambling is illegal in the USA, but the act of gambling itself is NOT illegal.

I stand corrected. They've found a way to protect the companies while endangering the citizens. :clap: Congrats federal government!!! Thanks for the info Dartgod, I had no clue it was so one sided.

Dartgod
06-12-2009, 02:45 PM
Yeah, its a crock, I tell ya.

I have about $18 in Full Tilt right now. I assume its still there, I have no intention of cashing it out. I just keep a little in there to keep me entertained playing $1 SNGs and micro stakes cash games.

Halfcan
06-12-2009, 02:50 PM
Now I'm not a fan of online poker. I did well at first then it seemed that no matter how well I played I lost it all back from bad beats. I wanna say that 80% of the time in a crucial part of a tourney or a big cash pot, I put my chips in with a 70-80% chance of winning the hand after the flop and would lose 80% of the time. Maybe I'm just not good at online poker, but most of the hands I lost I was a huge favorite before or after the flop and then I'd be out of the tourney.

I do really well when I go to the casino and play live tourney's or cash games. When I lived in OKC there was a tournament every night with about 50 ppl for $60-100 buy in and I had a streak of 9 times in a row to make the final 5 and make the money.

so **** online poker. I know there are bad beats and you see more hands, but seriously. How many times did I lose to a bigger stack when I had pocket Queens vs his pocket 5's for example. Or the endless miracle runner/runners that flushed away my flopped straights.

but I do think it's complete and utter BS that the government is stealing money from it's citizens like that. Thats really bad, there is no reason for it except for greed. More proof that this country doesn't give 2 shits about it's people and they only care about their money.

On line poker is a rip-I had 4 kings-went all in for 256,000 (play money) and lost to a Royal Flush?? WHat are the odds??

I think they have a matrix fixed that controls the cards with dummy players. If a bet gets to a certain level-the cards mysteriously change and you lose.

KCChiefsMan
06-12-2009, 02:51 PM
On line poker is a rip-I had 4 kings-went all in for 256,000 (play money) and lost to a Royal Flush?? WHat are the odds??

I think they have a matrix fixed that controls the cards with dummy players. If a bet gets to a certain level-the cards mysteriously change and you lose.


I've lost with quads more than I've won with them and i've gotten quads at least 100 times in online poker.

mikeyis4dcats.
06-12-2009, 02:53 PM
I don't understand the issue. You wouldn't have a problem if the cops seized someone's winnings from a back room poker game. This is no different.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-12-2009, 02:55 PM
I don't understand the issue. You wouldn't have a problem if the cops seized someone's winnings from a back room poker game. This is no different.

I would have a major issue with it. It's another example of money over reason. We only care, because we're not getting our cut. The government should buy their own lottery ticket.

Arsonist
06-12-2009, 03:01 PM
Legalize WEED and solve a lot of government money issues!!!

KCChiefsMan
06-12-2009, 03:10 PM
I would have a major issue with it. It's another example of money over reason. We only care, because we're not getting our cut. The government should buy their own lottery ticket.

yup, anyone who thinks our government actually cares about the people is very naive.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-12-2009, 03:17 PM
Legalize WEED and solve a lot of government money issues!!!

On a multitude of levels.

Garcia Bronco
06-12-2009, 03:39 PM
Wait until you see the audit rates after this year.

Yep. I do mine with a CPA and a tax attorney.

Garcia Bronco
06-12-2009, 03:45 PM
Actually like it or not they do under Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

If this isn't regulating commerce among the states/Foreign Nations I don't know what is...considering they are all based overseas.

Gambling within a state congress may not be able to ban, but gambling across state lines they most definitely can. I don't think anyone can doubt that internet gambling with casinos in other countries falls under this clause.

That is civics 101.

Except winnings aren't commerce. It's gambling. Now the fee for the service could be considered commerce, but not winnings on bets.

Short Leash Hootie
06-13-2009, 02:25 AM
guess I don't feel so bad about getting up to $700 last week and then blowing it playing drunk 10/20 limit one night when I was blacked out...

Short Leash Hootie
06-13-2009, 02:26 AM
I also played the daily dollar with 200 FT points...over 9000 people registered...played 10 hours and finished 16th when my AA lost to J9 all-in preflop...10 hours for $45...made it through 8900+ GD people...to win $45 dollars.

Of course I wagered a whopping 200 FT points...but still.

Dr. Gigglepants
09-20-2011, 08:39 PM
NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. prosecutors made new allegations on Tuesday in a probe of the Full Tilt Poker website, accusing self-styled "Poker Professor" Howard Lederer and professional poker champion Christopher Ferguson and others of paying themselves more than $440 million while defrauding other players.

In a motion filed in federal court in New York to amend an earlier civil complaint, the prosecutors accused Full Tilt Poker of running a Ponzi scheme that continued even after the original charges were filed.

Prosecutors unsealed the earlier charges on April 15, accusing three Internet poker companies -- Full Tilt Poker, Absolute Poker and PokerStars -- and 11 people, including Full Tilt director Raymond Bitar, of bank fraud, illegal gambling and money laundering offenses.

Lederer is described on his website (http://www.howardlederer.com) as "The Poker Professor" and Ferguson has won five World Series of Poker events. The men are directors and owners of Full Tilt Poker.

"In reality, Full Tilt Poker did not maintain funds sufficient to repay all players, and in addition, the company used player funds to pay board members and other owners more than $440 million since April 2007," the office of Manhattan U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara said in a statement.

"Full Tilt was not a legitimate poker company, but a global Ponzi scheme."

continued...
http://news.yahoo.com/u-calls-online-poker-global-ponzi-scheme-185228376.html

Smed1065
09-20-2011, 08:42 PM
Oh they warned us? Ha Ha. Oh they want our money too?

I never lost on a poker site/CP

Dr. Gigglepants
09-20-2011, 08:55 PM
I am shocked at the 2 guys mentioned though. They are arguably 2 of the biggest names in poker. Kind of shocking really.