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Tribal Warfare
06-12-2009, 08:53 AM
Mental Edge On Injuries … Friday Cup O’Chiefs (http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/mental-edge-on-injuries-%E2%80%A6-friday-cup-o%E2%80%99chiefs.html)
June 12, 2009 - Bob Gretz |

The smile was barely contained on Glenn Dorsey’s face.

It’s been a long time since anybody was so excited about getting back to an off-season football practice.

But on Thursday in the Chiefs OTA session, Dorsey was able to work with the full squad for the first time since the workouts started. No longer was he exiled to the rehab field.

“I’m so glad to be off that field and back in practice,” Dorsey said afterwards. “I’m telling you, there’s nobody that wants to be on that (rehab) field. Nobody.”

Not surprisingly, the Chiefs are taking on the attitude about injuries that stems from the Bill Parcells School of Coaching. Parcells doesn’t have anything written down, so to paraphrase the Big Tuna’s thoughts on injured players is this: he doesn’t believe in them. If there’s not a bone sticking out, or evidence of a ligament being torn in half, then it’s not an injury.

Muscle pulls? Forget about it. Sprains? You’ve got to be kidding. Sore? No kidding, take an aspirin and get back out there.

There is no question that injuries are part of the game of football. There’s also no question that teams that win divisions, conferences and Super Bowls tend to have fewer players sitting out because of football related health problems. Conversely, teams that don’t win tend to have injuries that have lengthy rehab periods.

There are ways to combat the minor injuries that come with the game of football, and that’s what Todd Haley has been drilling his team on since this off-season program started.

That’s why after practice on Thursday, the Chiefs ran and ran and ran. That’s why the team has lost 338 pounds since the start of the off-season program. That’s why players who can’t participate because of injury end up working harder on the rehab field than the guys in the practice.

What Haley is trying to do is build strength, build endurance, but also build a mindset that overcomes the sprains, pulls, bruises and contusions that come with the game.

On Thursday, QB Brodie Croyle, RB Kolby Smith and DT Ron Edwards were not the only players who had physical problems on the field. They were the ones that had to rehab with the strength and conditioning coaches. There were players in the practice who probably in another year or situation would have been watching and not taking part. DT Tank Tyler is bothered by a sore knee. He spent a few days on the rehab field, but hasn’t been back.

Nobody wants any part of that field.

“It doesn’t look like a lot of fun,” Haley said of what happens on the rehab field, “Which is the idea. (Dorsey) He has been working really hard over there and he has been chomping at the bit to get into the action.

“Quite frankly, that is the way we like it. We would like it to be a little more fun to practice than to be on the rehab field.”

Those players forced to rehab generally start out on stationary bikes. But they aren’t just cruising through the pedals, reading a magazine or watching soap operas. Coaches Cedric Smith and Brent Salazar stand there with a stop watch, timing their work and effort. After that, they may push a weighted sled contraption for awhile, or pick up a barbell or hand weights and carry them the length of a football field, and then back. There can be sprints and longer runs around the field.

Everything is done under the supervision of Smith and Salazar, so there’s no shirking, no goofing around and no cutting corners.

There’s also no fun.

“It’s miserable over there,” said OLB Turk McBride, who spent a few early practices on the rehab team due to his surgically repaired shoulder. “You work harder than you do in practice, but you aren’t in practice. You don’t get anything football out of it.

“It’s necessary, but you don’t want any part of that bike patrol.”

So far, and that knocking sound you heard was Haley finding a piece of wood, the Chiefs are just a week away from the end of their off-season program and they’ve not suffered any major injuries. Or even in this case, any debilitating minor injuries. Edwards would be the only exception. His injury has never been identified publicly, but appears to be an upper leg problem.

Of course, all of this comes without real football having been played or practice. When bodies collide, injuries happen with far more frequency. That’s doesn’t really come into play until training camp, which figures to be more physical than what the Chiefs have experienced over the last three years.

But Todd Haley is hoping that a well-conditioned team both physically and mentally, won’t feel the pain quite as much, or quite as often.

UFL WILL TAKE VICK, BUT NOT PACMAN

Speaking this week, United Football League Commissioner Michael Huyghue said the league that will begin operation later this year with a four-team, six-game schedule, would welcome the disgraced Michael Vick, but they aren’t interested in the disgraced Pacman Jones.

“To the extent that Michael Vick becomes available we will look very closely into bringing him into our league — not only because our fan-survey poll was abundantly in favor of allowing him to come back but because we think it might be the right kind of buffer for a player like that to go back to the NFL,” Huyghue told Clark Judge of CBSsports.com. “He’s certainly an exciting player, and there will be a lot of interest in him. But the protocol is to wait for him to be released from his NFL contract. If he is, we will undergo measures to see if we can get him to play in our league.”

The NFL has made no decision on Vick’s future in that league and won’t until his home confinement is over and his sentence on the dog fighting charges is completed.

Pacman is another matter.

“I think that would be difficult,” Huyghue said. “On the one hand to say Michael Vick could come in and Pacman couldn’t (that) might seem a bit contradictory, but I think we have to look at each one — and I think the coaches will set the tone for that.

“For example, (New York coach) Ted Cottrell said his first priority is that he doesn’t want any bad apples. I’m not trying to demean Pacman Jones. I happen to know him to some degree from a personal background. But, in general, those aren’t the players we’re looking for.”

Here’s a link to the whole story.

SIGNINGS & MOVEMENT AROUND THE LEAGUE

BILLS – released OL Joel Bell, LB Blake Costanzo, DT John Faletoese, DB Kyle Ward and DE Gerald Washington.

BRONCOS – released WR Travis Shelton, LB Braxton Kelley and OT Marcus Gordon.

BUCS – signed fifth-round draft choice OT Xavier Fulton.

CARDINALS – signed seventh-round choice G Trevor Canfield.

EAGLES – agreed to a new contract with QB Donovan McNabb, released QB Adam DiMichele, RB Rashard Mendenhall and DT Amon Gordon.

JAGUARS – released CB Will James and TE Charles Davis.

JETS – released TE Martrez Milner.

PATRIOTS – released FB Patrick Pass, signed fourth-round draft choice OL Rich Ohrnberger,

REDSKINS – signed draft picks LB Cody Glenn (5th round) and FB Eddie Williams (7th round).

TEXANS – agreed to terms with QB Rex Grossman (Bears).

SAY HAPPY BIRTHDAY …

Born on June 12, 1934 in Kirbyville, Pennsylvania was C Jim Barton. A member of the original Dallas Texans, he played in 14 games during the 1960 season. The next year he moved to the Denver Broncos where he played for two seasons.

keg in kc
06-12-2009, 08:55 AM
Whether or not he can coach his way out of a paper bag, only time will tell, but I like the change in attitude.

dirk digler
06-12-2009, 08:59 AM
Whether or not he can coach his way out of a paper bag, only time will tell, but I like the change in attitude.

Yep definitely. DV\Herm babied these guys and they became soft

Pants
06-12-2009, 09:00 AM
Whether or not he can coach his way out of a paper bag, only time will tell, but I like the change in attitude.

No matter what, he's an upgrade from our previous coach. So at least there's that.

Pants
06-12-2009, 09:01 AM
Yep definitely. DV\Herm babied these guys and they became soft

Didn't DV overwork our dudes? I seem to remember a bunch of players crying about it. DV was an emotional guy, but he was still a tyrant on that practice field.

Mecca
06-12-2009, 09:02 AM
Didn't DV overwork our dudes? I seem to remember a bunch of players crying about it. DV was an emotional guy, but he was still a tyrant on that practice field.

He was overly sentimental though, DV would keep complete piles of crap for no other reason than he liked them and they're part of the program like that will somehow make them better.

keg in kc
06-12-2009, 09:06 AM
Didn't DV overwork our dudes? I seem to remember a bunch of players crying about it. DV was an emotional guy, but he was still a tyrant on that practice field.He worked them hard, but he never instilled any toughness. That was one of the softest NFL teams I've ever seen, at least on the surface. Not that you don't have to be tough to play in the league in general.

That whole grandfatherly approach combined with dazzling your way to victory...

Pants
06-12-2009, 09:07 AM
He was overly sentimental though, DV would keep complete piles of crap for no other reason than he liked them and they're part of the program like that will somehow make them better.

Yeah, I hear that.

Mecca
06-12-2009, 09:13 AM
He worked them hard, but he never instilled any toughness. That was one of the softest NFL teams I've ever seen, at least on the surface. Not that you don't have to be tough to play in the league in general.

That whole grandfatherly approach combined with dazzling your way to victory...

If a couple breaks didn't go their way, they were done.

BossChief
06-12-2009, 09:15 AM
He was overly sentimental though, DV would keep complete piles of crap for no other reason than he liked them and they're part of the program like that will somehow make them better.

Partially agree, but his teams gave everything they had for the man.

we were the only team he didnt coach to a championship game...fuck Gunther/Grob

keg in kc
06-12-2009, 09:19 AM
If a couple breaks didn't go their way, they were done.One thing that always bugged me was the trouble they had in short yardage. If they needed first down or even a yard to end a game, they couldn't get it. Or make one stop on defense with the game on the line. That's the toughness I'm talking about. They never seemed to rise above in the face of adversity.

Mecca
06-12-2009, 09:24 AM
One thing that always bugged me was the trouble they had in short yardage. If they needed first down or even a yard to end a game, they couldn't get it. Or make one stop on defense with the game on the line. That's the toughness I'm talking about. They never seemed to rise above in the face of adversity.

They just weren't strong willed, the Eagles game speaks to that, up what was it 24-7 a pick 6 and even still winning everyone knew that game was over and they would lose.

Pants
06-12-2009, 09:58 AM
They just weren't strong willed, the Eagles game speaks to that, up what was it 24-7 a pick 6 and even still winning everyone knew that game was over and they would lose.

That was under Herm, though, wasn't it?

dirk digler
06-12-2009, 10:02 AM
They just weren't strong willed, the Eagles game speaks to that, up what was it 24-7 a pick 6 and even still winning everyone knew that game was over and they would lose.

I was there at that game I was thinking no way would the Chiefs lose until they lost the lead.

Mecca
06-12-2009, 10:11 AM
That was under Herm, though, wasn't it?

Nah that was a DV game, that was the one when Trent went apeshit on the sideline and then we had the whole week about audibles.

Manila-Chief
06-12-2009, 10:32 AM
He worked them hard, but he never instilled any toughness. That was one of the softest NFL teams I've ever seen, at least on the surface. Not that you don't have to be tough to play in the league in general.

That whole grandfatherly approach combined with dazzling your way to victory...

DV loved his offense so much, he wouldn't let the defense get into shape by practicing hard aginst the offense.

He had a "get them into shape, out work other teams" in Philly and St. Loser ... but I think he tempered it a bit in KC.

Herm was a totally different story. Even I noticed his teams were not in shape to begin a season.

I like Haley's approach to condtioning. It should help players play to their top potential. I have a question as to if he may not have started them a tad early and some may suffer burn out too early in the season. But, in shape, stronger, ready to practice/play by training camp is better than Hermism.

chiefzilla1501
06-12-2009, 10:35 AM
They just weren't strong willed, the Eagles game speaks to that, up what was it 24-7 a pick 6 and even still winning everyone knew that game was over and they would lose.

The Chiefs lost the game because they were running a gimmick offense in the first half to compensate for Black's complete inability to stop anybody in the pass rush. It had nothing to do with our offense giving up. Once the Eagles figured it out, they had their defense gun for the short stuff, and the game was over by then, because we knew the defense wouldn't make a stop.

I agree that Vermeil was too soft on the loyalty. But I entirely disagree that this is a team that gave up on him, ever. I don't think his defense gave up on him as much as they just weren't good at all. It's almost impossible to get a defense motivation when you have no confidence in the scheme or the players surrounding you. His fault for keeping inept defensive coordinators, but not entirely his fault for not being able to motivate them.

chiefzilla1501
06-12-2009, 10:36 AM
DV loved his offense so much, he wouldn't let the defense get into shape by practicing hard aginst the offense.

He had a "get them into shape, out work other teams" in Philly and St. Loser ... but I think he tempered it a bit in KC.

Herm was a totally different story. Even I noticed his teams were not in shape to begin a season.

I like Haley's approach to condtioning. It should help players play to their top potential. I have a question as to if he may not have started them a tad early and some may suffer burn out too early in the season. But, in shape, stronger, ready to practice/play by training camp is better than Hermism.

I disagree. Vermeil ran very brutal practices even in KC. It had nothing to do with players not being in shape or motivated. It had everything to do with a defense that was so poorly constructed that they inspired negative confidence.

PhillyChiefFan
06-12-2009, 10:47 AM
When did the Eagles have Rashard Mendenhall???

crazycoffey
06-12-2009, 10:49 AM
He was overly sentimental though, DV would keep complete piles of crap for no other reason than he liked them and they're part of the program like that will somehow make them better.


I totally agree with this

crazycoffey
06-12-2009, 10:50 AM
Whether or not he can coach his way out of a paper bag, only time will tell, but I like the change in attitude.


Oh, I meant to agree with this too....

Baby Lee
06-12-2009, 10:55 AM
One thing that always bugged me was the trouble they had in short yardage. If they needed first down or even a yard to end a game, they couldn't get it. Or make one stop on defense with the game on the line. That's the toughness I'm talking about. They never seemed to rise above in the face of adversity.

I wouldn't say never, as the LJ plow into the endzone at the gun against the Raiders leapt immediately to mind.

keg in kc
06-12-2009, 10:59 AM
I wouldn't say never, as the LJ plow into the endzone at the gun against the Raiders leapt immediately to mind.One success does not balance out a number of failures. Running the ball with the game on the line just wasn't a strength of the team during that period. They just didn't have that that "you know what's coming and you can't stop it anyway" thing that really great teams have.

Or a defense that could force a 3-and-out in, like, the entire fourth quarter.

dirk digler
06-12-2009, 11:03 AM
I disagree. Vermeil ran very brutal practices even in KC. It had nothing to do with players not being in shape or motivated. It had everything to do with a defense that was so poorly constructed that they inspired negative confidence.

DV used to run 3+ hours practices in Philly and when he first started in St. Louis until he was almost fired. He toned it down alot. I like DV but the way he ran things made the players soft.

Baby Lee
06-12-2009, 11:05 AM
One success does not balance out a number of failures. Running the ball with the game on the line just wasn't a strength of the team during that period. They just didn't have that that "you know what's coming and you can't stop it anyway" thing that really great teams have.

Or a defense that could force a 3-and-out in, like, the entire fourth quarter.
It does kind of render 'never' inoperant, though, which was what I said. ;)

Don't get me started on the D, I'm just glad the Ravens existed this past decade, even if I wasn't an all out fan, just so I could remember what defense looked like.

shitgoose
06-12-2009, 11:28 AM
When did the Eagles have Rashard Mendenhall???

I was wondering the same thing?

Mr. Krab
06-12-2009, 12:01 PM
I like how they are making it unpleasant for injury guys by upping the rehab intensity.

Dick Vermeil work them hard but i don't think it was a positive work. I think you can work players really,really hard when in comes to conditioning. Doing mindless crap over and over again just to be a jerk is another thing. Players get hurt more when they are tired so conditioning can be a huge help.

LaChapelle
06-12-2009, 12:03 PM
Roaf sure thought DV's practices shorten his career.

sedated
06-12-2009, 12:19 PM
EAGLES – released RB Rashard Mendenhall

the steelers first-round pick last year? that leg injury must've been serious shit.

wasi
06-12-2009, 12:25 PM
I like how they are making it unpleasant for injury guys by upping the rehab intensity.

Dick Vermeil work them hard but i don't think it was a positive work. I think you can work players really,really hard when in comes to conditioning. Doing mindless crap over and over again just to be a jerk is another thing. Players get hurt more when they are tired so conditioning can be a huge help.

I agree with the DV comment. Haley has explained it pretty well early on that tempo in his practises is important because he doesn't want the players out on the field for hours. I imagine the practises today get almost as many reps as DV's practises because the coaches have them running to the line after breaking huddle and running back to get realigned.

crazycoffey
06-12-2009, 12:28 PM
Roaf sure thought DV's practices shorten his career.

how many more years did he have left, if DV never showed up that is?

rad
06-12-2009, 12:38 PM
When did the Eagles have Rashard Mendenhall???

I was wondering the same thing?

the steelers first-round pick last year? that leg injury must've been serious shit.

I think they mean his brother Walter. Misprint.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Mendenhall

Rausch
06-12-2009, 12:43 PM
how many more years did he have left, if DV never showed up that is?

Not many.

He likely would have shot Joe Horn and ended up in the clink...

Sully
06-12-2009, 01:35 PM
I disagree about the short yardage thing.
They simply ran that sweep more often than the ISO. Priest didn't set the tc record without getting a ton short yardage-wise.

Chocolate Hog
06-12-2009, 01:58 PM
One thing that always bugged me was the trouble they had in short yardage. If they needed first down or even a yard to end a game, they couldn't get it. Or make one stop on defense with the game on the line. That's the toughness I'm talking about. They never seemed to rise above in the face of adversity.

Like the games aginst Oakland or the 2005 game at Arrowhead where the defense kicked Denevers ass. Dv's teams were some of the best on short yardage Pirest was good at that.

chiefzilla1501
06-12-2009, 02:27 PM
DV used to run 3+ hours practices in Philly and when he first started in St. Louis until he was almost fired. He toned it down alot. I like DV but the way he ran things made the players soft.

But that's just the thing. DV's toned-down practices were still brutal and probably tougher than most coaches' practices in the league. His practice style didn't make his players soft. And I don't think his poo-poo approach did either. I think it's a pretty obvious case of a defense that completely lost confidence in itself because no matter how hard they worked, they still sucked. I can promise you that if the defense was even average, the roster as a whole would have been amped up.

Pretty perfect example is in New York. The players almost revolted on Coughlin and they were playing lethargically. It's amazing how improvement on both sides of the ball can raise the energy level.

I think the common mistake people make is to get over-excited about a new coach and to over-blame coaches in the past. I still believe that if you put a semi-competent defensive coordinator in KC and you put a semi-competent GM to get the right players, the Chiefs would have easily made the Super Bowl under DV.

keg in kc
06-12-2009, 02:31 PM
I disagree about the short yardage thing.
They simply ran that sweep more often than the ISO. Priest didn't set the tc record without getting a ton short yardage-wise.

Like the games aginst Oakland or the 2005 game at Arrowhead where the defense kicked Denevers ass. Dv's teams were some of the best on short yardage Pirest was good at that.I apparently need to reemphasize that I said "late in games".

They had a lot of problems with 3 and outs with under 5 minutes to go. People used to blast Saunders all the time for it. They couldn't put games away.

crazycoffey
06-12-2009, 03:33 PM
Not many.

He likely would have shot Joe Horn and ended up in the clink...


ROFL - however, I personally doubt he came back more than one year than he did anyway, he was done. Nothing wrong with that either, I just doubt DV's offseason took more than one year from his career, and if it did, they just couldn't be at the same level.

Now, better than what we ended up with? who knows, point is still valid that DV's "hard offseason" couldn't be the reason he left when he did, even if that's what he actually said.....

Halfcan
06-12-2009, 04:02 PM
He was overly sentimental though, DV would keep complete piles of crap for no other reason than he liked them and they're part of the program like that will somehow make them better.

At least we won more than 2 games.

Mr. Krab
06-12-2009, 05:06 PM
Gretz is about the only legit Chiefs news source left. Whodathunkit!! :eek:

milkman
06-12-2009, 09:03 PM
I think the common mistake people make is to get over-excited about a new coach and to over-blame coaches in the past. I still believe that if you put a semi-competent defensive coordinator in KC and you put a semi-competent GM to get the right players, the Chiefs would have easily made the Super Bowl under DV.

No matter how you spin it, Dick is evey bit as responsible for that crappy ass defense, and the crappy fucking DCs that were on his staff.

You still keep trying to make excuses for that dumbass, but there is no fucking excuse,

He sucked ass.

Buehler445
06-12-2009, 09:07 PM
No matter how you spin it, Dick is evey bit as responsible for that crappy ass defense, and the crappy fucking DCs that were on his staff.

You still keep trying to make excuses for that dumbass, but there is no fucking excuse,

He sucked ass.

Yep. Same way Squirmin Herman was responsible for the buttfuck offense.