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wild1
06-12-2009, 02:27 PM
House Health-Care Bill to Include $600 Billion in Tax Increases

June 12 (Bloomberg) -- Health-care overhaul legislation being drafted by House Democrats will include $600 billion in tax increases and $400 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid, Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charles Rangel said.

Democrats will work on the bill’s details next week as they struggle through “what kind of heartburn” it will cause to agree on how to pay for revamping the health-care system, Rangel, a New York Democrat, said today. He also said the measure’s cost will reach beyond the $634 billion President Barack Obama proposed in his budget request to Congress as a down payment for the policy changes.

Asked whether the cost of a health-care overhaul would be more than $1 trillion, Rangel said, “the answer is yes.”

House Democrats plan to release their legislation next week. Obama has made a health-care overhaul a top domestic priority and is working with Congress to get legislation to his desk by October.

Democrats in the House and Senate are working on legislation that would require all Americans to have health insurance, prohibit insurers from refusing to cover pre-existing conditions and place other restrictions on the industry.

The legislation would establish online exchanges for individuals to purchase insurance and would require employers to provide health benefits to workers or pay a penalty. Some Democrats also are backing creation of a government-run program to expand coverage to the uninsured. The issue is the subject of bipartisan negotiations with Republican opponents.

To contact the reporter on this story: Laura Litvan in Washington at llitvan@bloomberg.net http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aqLNecbH0dcg

Cannibal
06-12-2009, 02:44 PM
If given a choice of dropping employer insurance with all of the cost, hoops you have to jump though and denial of payment, or a government health plan in which everything is covered, most people would choose the government plan, even conservatives.

The goverment plan would kill the private plan and I hope like hell it happens sooner rather than later.

SBK
06-12-2009, 02:46 PM
If given a choice of dropping employer insurance with all of the cost, hoops you have to jump though and denial of payment, or a government health plan in which everything is covered, most people would choose the government plan, even conservatives.


WRONG

Conservatives want less government and more freedom, this is the opposite. This is a disaster. Especially if you make over $250,000. LMAO

Cannibal
06-12-2009, 02:48 PM
WRONG

Conservatives want less government and more freedom, this is the opposite. This is a disaster. Especially if you make over $250,000. LMAO

I think you're wrong. I am talking about the real world here. Not some fuckin conservative fairy tale. If a family had the two choices side by side and reviewed them both for cost vs. benefit, most would choose the governement plan if it was structured like the single payer systems of Europe and Canada.

Garcia Bronco
06-12-2009, 02:51 PM
If the governemnt controls all aspects of healthcare they will have more power over your life. End of story.

wild1
06-12-2009, 02:56 PM
If the governemnt controls all aspects of healthcare they will have more power over your life. End of story.

They'll be able to control anything you do, because everything you do could somehow affect your health. Look at the justification for the government taking over private industry 'We paid for it, so we can tell you to do anything we want'


Maybe some people are dying to live in a country where everyone is bottle-fed by the state, but I like controlling my own destiny.

Garcia Bronco
06-12-2009, 03:01 PM
They'll be able to control anything you do, because everything you do could somehow affect your health. Look at the justification for the government taking over private industry 'We paid for it, so we can tell you to do anything we want'


Maybe some people are dying to live in a country where everyone is bottle-fed by the state, but I like controlling my own destiny.


Exactly. And when you become a financial burden to the state they will tell you to roll over and die. This happens today in private Insurance as well. So no real change there, except it'll be Government decision for the "Good of the People".

SBK
06-12-2009, 03:09 PM
I think you're wrong. I am talking about the real world here. Not some ****in conservative fairy tale. If a family had the two choices side by side and reviewed them both for cost vs. benefit, most would choose the governement plan if it was structured like the single payer systems of Europe and Canada.

I know I'm right. Ask the conservatives around here, I bet you get a 100% vote against gov't health care.

Cannibal
06-12-2009, 03:26 PM
I know I'm right. Ask the conservatives around here, I bet you get a 100% vote against gov't health care.

As soon as they took a look at both plans financially making the decision for their family for price vs. value, I think they'd be very hard pressed to stick with employer based private health insurance. I believe that if it happened, it would usher in single payer government healthcare ala Canada.

Which is what we should already have.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-12-2009, 03:30 PM
McDonald's will be having a fire sale soon after this passes.

Velvet_Jones
06-12-2009, 03:32 PM
As soon as they took a look at both plans financially making the decision for their family for price vs. value, I think they'd be very hard pressed to stick with employer based private health insurance. I believe that if it happened, it would usher in single payer government healthcare ala Canada.

Which is what we should already have.

This is such a stupid statement that I don't even know where to start. So I won't.

***SPRAYER
06-12-2009, 03:37 PM
10% to 15% of the US population use 90% of healthcare---

The other 85% have to subsidize the 10%, that is why the premiums cost so much. If government stopped forcing everyone else to subsidize the 10%, we wouldn't be in this predicament.

But moonbats seem to think the government is the solution for everything so lets roll with it....

Right over Niagara Falls.

talastan
06-12-2009, 03:38 PM
So Cannibal, You really don't mind the government telling you what you can eat, how long you can watch TV, or spend on the computer? (Got to get that government mandated exercise) Forget about smoking, drinking, or any thing like that, the government won't want to pay for the healthcare costs associated with it. This is about nothing more than control. Even if it was "more cost effective" the fact is you get what you pay for. You want it cheap, be prepared to get the crappiest healthcare ever. Not to mention be prepared for your Nanny, Uncle Sam, to be telling you what to do and how to live. I'm sorry but my principles and freedoms cost a little more than that.

***SPRAYER
06-12-2009, 03:39 PM
Medicare and Medicaid are going broke----

So let's add the rest of the population to the programs. LOL stupid moonbats

wutamess
06-12-2009, 03:40 PM
I'd love to pay higher taxes to not have to worry about if I'm laid off who's going to pickup insurance for me and my kids. Or having to pay Cobra $400/month for wife and kids only or $800 for all the options my wife's previous insurance cost (all of us).

If I was to put my entire family under my employers plan, health insurance only it'd cost $800/month. AND THAT'S WITH A $2500 DEDUCTIBLE/family member.
That's a load of shit.

I'd gladly pay higher taxes in order to avoid $10K plus $2500/family member a year.

Bring on the Gubment and CONTROL ME!

talastan
06-12-2009, 03:43 PM
I'd love to pay higher taxes to not have to worry about if I'm laid off who's going to pickup insurance for me and my kids. Or having to pay Cobra $400/month for wife and kids only or $800 for all the options my wife's previous insurance cost (all of us).

If I was to put my entire family under my employers plan, health insurance only it'd cost $800/month. AND THAT'S WITH A $2500 DEDUCTIBLE/family member.
That's a load of shit.

I'd gladly pay higher taxes in order to avoid $10K plus $2500/family member a year.

Bring on the Gubment and CONTROL ME!


Sounds like you need a better job with better benefits rathar than letting everyone pay for it.

SBK
06-12-2009, 03:57 PM
I'd love to pay higher taxes to not have to worry about if I'm laid off who's going to pickup insurance for me and my kids. Or having to pay Cobra $400/month for wife and kids only or $800 for all the options my wife's previous insurance cost (all of us).

If I was to put my entire family under my employers plan, health insurance only it'd cost $800/month. AND THAT'S WITH A $2500 DEDUCTIBLE/family member.
That's a load of shit.

I'd gladly pay higher taxes in order to avoid $10K plus $2500/family member a year.

Bring on the Gubment and CONTROL ME!

I'd rather not pay for you, so please work harder.

FishingRod
06-12-2009, 03:59 PM
10% to 15% of the US population use 90% of healthcare---

The other 85% have to subsidize the 10%, that is why the premiums cost so much. If government stopped forcing everyone else to subsidize the 10%, we wouldn't be in this predicament.

But moonbats seem to think the government is the solution for everything so lets roll with it....

Right over Niagara Falls.

Uh that is how insurance works. It is a profit deal. I'm no fan of any of the universal healthcare plans I've seen but If you took the two or 3 largest Insurance providers that now control the vast majority of the heath care plans in the US I don't see it as a very free an open market either. Frankly our system sucks and am willing to take a look at how other countries do it and could be persuaded their is a better way. But I haven't been convinced yet. Any change in how medical expenses are paid for would need to be packaged with reforms that would do away with silly lawsuits and probably would need some maximum payouts for gross medical incompetence. Additionally the medical community would need to be willing or be forced to accept lower wages for their jobs . From Doctors, to Nurses and to the Pharmaceutical companies. I don't know if it is doable and It doesn't sound like how this country is supposed to work but I'm willing to listen because what we are doing now could certainly be better.

A good weekend to you all.

I think it is beer-30

mikey23545
06-12-2009, 03:59 PM
Sure doesn't sound like <i>free</i> health care...

Cannibal
06-12-2009, 04:16 PM
I'd love to pay higher taxes to not have to worry about if I'm laid off who's going to pickup insurance for me and my kids. Or having to pay Cobra $400/month for wife and kids only or $800 for all the options my wife's previous insurance cost (all of us).

If I was to put my entire family under my employers plan, health insurance only it'd cost $800/month. AND THAT'S WITH A $2500 DEDUCTIBLE/family member.
That's a load of shit.

I'd gladly pay higher taxes in order to avoid $10K plus $2500/family member a year.

Bring on the Gubment and CONTROL ME!

LMAO

Cannibal
06-12-2009, 04:18 PM
So Cannibal, You really don't mind the government telling you what you can eat, how long you can watch TV, or spend on the computer? (Got to get that government mandated exercise) Forget about smoking, drinking, or any thing like that, the government won't want to pay for the healthcare costs associated with it. This is about nothing more than control. Even if it was "more cost effective" the fact is you get what you pay for. You want it cheap, be prepared to get the crappiest healthcare ever. Not to mention be prepared for your Nanny, Uncle Sam, to be telling you what to do and how to live. I'm sorry but my principles and freedoms cost a little more than that.

Sounds like you've bought the propaganda hook line and sinker.

Brock
06-12-2009, 04:20 PM
Yay, free stuff!

Cannibal
06-12-2009, 04:25 PM
Yay, free stuff!

I'm not saying it would be free. Obviously taxes would have to be raised. But I bet you wouldn't have to pay as much in taxes as you do for your current healthcare premiums.

Cannibal
06-12-2009, 04:26 PM
I guess this is also why we need the choice. You guys that are happy with your premiums, deductables etc. can keep it. Others should have the right for single payer.

Cannibal
06-12-2009, 04:28 PM
It's like my sister in law and her husband. They are republicans in the military. They constantly bash government healthcare. But I asked them if they went ahead and bought a private plan and they said no, they can't afford it. (This despite the fact that the husband is a Warrant Officer in the Army with benefits out his ass.)

Donger
06-12-2009, 04:29 PM
I'm still waiting for a supporter of this to explain to me why I should be forced to have to pay for someone else's health care.

Cannibal
06-12-2009, 04:31 PM
I'm still waiting for a supporter of this to explain to me why I should be forced to have to pay for someone else's health care.

You already do.

Donger
06-12-2009, 04:32 PM
You already do.

Yes, I know. So, why should I be forced to do so (if you think I should, that is)?

***SPRAYER
06-12-2009, 04:33 PM
Uh that is how insurance works.

Understood but what makes HEALTH INSURANCE so expensive are the government mandated subsidy requirements that encourages dubious consumption from a minority that creates a burden on the majority.

It's not like car insurance or fire insurance where fraud and abuse is much more easily detected, wheras medical insurance fraud is harder to prove and is so widespread that it would be impossible to hire enough investigators and adjusters to root out all the abusers.

***SPRAYER
06-12-2009, 04:35 PM
I'm still waiting for a supporter of this to explain to me why I should be forced to have to pay for someone else's health care.

Well, we already are; the federal govt confiscates thousands of dollars from all of our paychecks to pay for medicare and medicaid.

Now they will take even more. Get ready to starve.

Cannibal
06-12-2009, 04:37 PM
Well, we already are; the federal govt confiscates thousands of dollars from all of our paychecks to pay for medicare and medicaid.

Now they will take even more. Get ready to starve.

God you're stupid.

wild1
06-12-2009, 04:54 PM
I'd love to pay higher taxes to not have to worry about if I'm laid off who's going to pickup insurance for me and my kids. Or having to pay Cobra $400/month for wife and kids only or $800 for all the options my wife's previous insurance cost (all of us).

If I was to put my entire family under my employers plan, health insurance only it'd cost $800/month. AND THAT'S WITH A $2500 DEDUCTIBLE/family member.
That's a load of shit.

I'd gladly pay higher taxes in order to avoid $10K plus $2500/family member a year.

Bring on the Gubment and CONTROL ME!

I always thought there was a dollar amount at which most people would turn freedom back over to the government.

I just didn't realize it was as low as $10,000.

***SPRAYER
06-12-2009, 05:02 PM
I always thought there was a dollar amount at which most people would turn freedom back over to the government.

I just didn't realize it was as low as $10,000.

B.O. says "we're going to increase benefits, while decreasing costs"

ROFL

Only a moonbat would fall for this crap.

:drool:

BucEyedPea
06-12-2009, 05:03 PM
I'd love to pay higher taxes to not have to worry about if I'm laid off who's going to pickup insurance for me and my kids. Or having to pay Cobra $400/month for wife and kids only or $800 for all the options my wife's previous insurance cost (all of us).

If I was to put my entire family under my employers plan, health insurance only it'd cost $800/month. AND THAT'S WITH A $2500 DEDUCTIBLE/family member.
That's a load of shit.

I'd gladly pay higher taxes in order to avoid $10K plus $2500/family member a year.

Bring on the Gubment and CONTROL ME!

This is the problem right here. You don't need to carry that kind of a policy...you only need a policy that covers you catastrophically while you pay out the smaller stuff. Lower premiums but you do have to pay for some things. You should pay for the less exspensive hc. And if those have become too high you can thank govt interference in health care markets for that.

Donger
06-12-2009, 05:09 PM
The funny part of all this is that most people don't seem to realize that doctors will take cash. In fact, they f*cking love it.

Hydrae
06-12-2009, 05:23 PM
If given a choice of dropping employer insurance with all of the cost, hoops you have to jump though and denial of payment, or a government health plan in which everything is covered, most people would choose the government plan, even conservatives.

The goverment plan would kill the private plan and I hope like hell it happens sooner rather than later.

Given this:

The legislation would establish online exchanges for individuals to purchase insurance and would require employers to provide health benefits to workers or pay a penalty. Some Democrats also are backing creation of a government-run program to expand coverage to the uninsured. The issue is the subject of bipartisan negotiations with Republican opponents.

I don't think that would be an option. If you are employed, you will HAVE to take the health benefits that they offer.

Brock
06-12-2009, 05:37 PM
I'm not saying it would be free. Obviously taxes would have to be raised. But I bet you wouldn't have to pay as much in taxes as you do for your current healthcare premiums.

It will be free for people who don't work.

Cannibal
06-12-2009, 07:24 PM
It will be free for people who don't work.

It's free now for people who don't work.

Cannibal
06-12-2009, 07:32 PM
Yes, I know. So, why should I be forced to do so (if you think I should, that is)?

Welcome back Dongman. I guess the same reason you pay taxes for social security, or medicaid, or unemployment insurance.

Cannibal
06-12-2009, 07:37 PM
I'll let you admit you aren't for any of those social safety nets.

Donger
06-12-2009, 07:42 PM
Welcome back Dongman. I guess the same reason you pay taxes for social security, or medicaid, or unemployment insurance.

Welcome back? I don't know why you'd say that.

Again, why should I be forced to pay for it (or any of those)?

Donger
06-12-2009, 07:43 PM
I'll let you admit you aren't for any of those social safety nets.

Oh, is Obama suggesting that his plan is a safety net-type of insurance, and not a way of life? In other words, it is free (for you) for a certain period of time until you get back on your feet and pay for yourself?

Cannibal
06-12-2009, 07:45 PM
Oh, is Obama suggesting that his plan is a safety net-type of insurance, and not a way of life? In other words, it is free (for you) for a certain period of time until you get back on your feet and pay for yourself?

I hope not.

Donger
06-12-2009, 07:46 PM
I hope not.

Then it isn't a safety net.

Cannibal
06-12-2009, 07:51 PM
Then it isn't a safety net.

I hope it's more. I hope it replaces the horribly inefficient, horribly greedy, horribly corrupt, horribly expensive private option.

Hydrae
06-12-2009, 07:54 PM
I hope it's more. I hope it replaces the horribly inefficient, horribly greedy, horribly corrupt, horribly expensive private option.

Because big government has shown itself to be the model of efficiency? :hmmm:

Cannibal
06-12-2009, 07:58 PM
Because big government has shown itself to be the model of efficiency? :hmmm:

Because the private option has been so AWESOME since it was conceived. Healthcare is ****ing a shitload of families in the ass permenantly.

talastan
06-12-2009, 08:12 PM
Sounds like you've bought the propaganda hook line and sinker.

Propaganda has nothing to do with it. Take a look at Canada and Britian's failures. Forget what the "experts" say, and actually take a look at what the citizens have to say about Nationalized Healthcare. Medicare and Medicaid have been the most faulty, and defrauded programs to date under government control. But the government is going to get this much bigger responsiblity right?! :spock: Just keep riding your fantasy train to socialism. :thumb:

By the way China and Cuba are looking for a few good men like you!

wild1
06-12-2009, 08:24 PM
Because the private option has been so AWESOME since it was conceived. Healthcare is ****ing a shitload of families in the ass permenantly.

I think I can identify the person who is buying into propaganda...

Donger
06-12-2009, 08:29 PM
I hope it's more. I hope it replaces the horribly inefficient, horribly greedy, horribly corrupt, horribly expensive private option.

Okay. So I should have to pay for someone else's health care, on a permanent basis, right? That's what you propose?

WHY?

KC Dan
06-12-2009, 08:30 PM
Okay. So I should have to pay for someone else's health care, on a permanent basis, right? That's what you propose?

WHY?
Because you make more money than them, of course.......

He didn't hide anything. He said it all to Joe the Plumber during the campaign.

TEX
06-12-2009, 08:32 PM
I think you're wrong. I am talking about the real world here. Not some ****in conservative fairy tale. If a family had the two choices side by side and reviewed them both for cost vs. benefit, most would choose the governement plan if it was structured like the single payer systems of Europe and Canada.

This is why there is a problem. People actually think like this....

Donger
06-12-2009, 08:35 PM
I'm not saying it would be free. Obviously taxes would have to be raised. But I bet you wouldn't have to pay as much in taxes as you do for your current healthcare premiums.

Are you serious? Do you think that they pay $6.00 for a gallon of gasoline in Europe for fun?

wild1
06-12-2009, 08:35 PM
Okay. So I should have to pay for someone else's health care, on a permanent basis, right? That's what you propose?

WHY?

Because he likes your money, and thinks you should give it to him.

KC Dan
06-12-2009, 08:45 PM
British National Insurance Tax is a tax which is taken from pay for the UK's health and social security system. Your payments are known as National Insurance contributions (NICs). Most people working in the UK need to pay this: there are a few exceptions (for example, if you are from an EEA (http://www.ukstudentlife.com/Links/EEA.htm) country with a reciprical agreement with the UK and you continue to pay National Insurance in your home country).

In the 2008/9 tax year (for income earned between April 6th 2008 and April 5th 2009), the National Insurance tax rate paid by workers is:
0% for the first £105 per week
11% on income up to £770 per week
1% on any income above £770 per week
The tax is paid each time you are paid (usually weekly or monthly). Unlike income tax, it does not matter how much you have earned in other pay periods, and the tax cannot be reclaimed (unless a mistake has been made).

British Income Tax- If you work in the UK, you will have to pay income tax. This tax is collected by the government department known as HM Revenue & Customs (previously known as the Inland Revenue). Tax is paid based on your income during the tax year, which starts on April 6th and ends on April 5th in the following year.

In the 2008/9 tax year (for income earned between April 6th 2008 and April 5th 2009), the income tax bands are as follows:
0% on the first £5,435 (your personal allowance, equivalent to about £105 per week, or £453 per month)
(you will only be entitled to a part of this allowance if you are not resident in the UK during the whole tax year)
20% (the basic rate) on the next £36,000 (equivalent to about £692 per week, or £3,000 per month)
40% (the higher rate) on any income above this

recent change ---

The British government will increase its top rate of income tax (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=income+tax&sid=breitbart.com) to a higher than expected 50 percent from next year, Chancellor Alistair Darling said on Wednesday as he delivered the government’s annual budget.The tax band had originally been due to rise to 45 percent from 40 percent in April 2011 as Britain seeks to claw back lost tax revenue (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=tax+revenue&sid=breitbart.com) caused by a deep recession.


The 50-percent rate will apply to any income above 150,000 pounds.
“In November, I announced a new rate of income tax of 45 percent on incomes above 150,000 pounds — the top one percent of taxpayers

2bikemike
06-12-2009, 09:46 PM
It amazes me how many people fall for the line of bullshit coming from DC on Health Care. If this crap is enacted the working class will be screwed with higher taxes and substandard care.

The Govt. does a terrible job handling the money they already take in and dumbasses are ready to give them more control.

Look no further than Social Security and Medi Care. Systems that we've all paid into with no real hope of receiving benefits from unless your very near receiving them now.

Illegal Immigration is another reason I don't want national health care. Lets tackle that issue.

Velvet_Jones
06-12-2009, 10:50 PM
God you're stupid.

Is being stupid better than being ignorant of the pressures of the insurance industry. You know - like yourself?

Most of the pressure on the health insurance industry is directly related to government intervention. Do you know that Mr. Single Payer?

Velvet_Jones
06-12-2009, 10:52 PM
This is the problem right here. You don't need to carry that kind of a policy...you only need a policy that covers you catastrophically while you pay out the smaller stuff. Lower premiums but you do have to pay for some things. You should pay for the less exspensive hc. And if those have become too high you can thank govt interference in health care markets for that.

Also - you could us a HSA and save tax free for when you really need to use the healthcare and you have access to that money just like an IRA.

wild1
06-12-2009, 10:54 PM
I hope it's more. I hope it replaces the horribly inefficient, horribly greedy, horribly corrupt, horribly expensive private option.

That's amusing, since anything the government takes over will become even less efficient, more corrupt, and phenominally more expensive.

You also forget that access will have to be rationed, and the quality will degrade.

But hey, at least it's free.

wild1
06-12-2009, 10:56 PM
Also - you could us a HSA and save tax free for when you really need to use the healthcare and you have access to that money just like an IRA.

That's another part of the problem: they don't particularly like the idea of you being able to save tax free. This is basically what they call a "tax loophole" during election season.

Velvet_Jones
06-12-2009, 10:57 PM
I HOPE it's more.

You are young and stupid. I can tell you're are either lazy and don't want to support yourself or a spoiled asshole.

Oh - and you got some Obama on your chin.

wild1
06-12-2009, 10:58 PM
Illegal Immigration is another reason I don't want national health care. Lets tackle that issue.

This is a good point, we'd be covering 50 million more people in 10 years who aren't paying into the system.

wutamess
06-13-2009, 02:33 AM
Sounds like you need a better job with better benefits rathar than letting everyone pay for it.

Uh, I have a better job than most.

wutamess
06-13-2009, 02:39 AM
This is the problem right here. You don't need to carry that kind of a policy...you only need a policy that covers you catastrophically while you pay out the smaller stuff. Lower premiums but you do have to pay for some things. You should pay for the less exspensive hc. And if those have become too high you can thank govt interference in health care markets for that.

You do realize that bankrupcies are because of HC right?
This year alone, I've had a colonoscopy and an upper GI along with all kinds of medical test. I've maxed out my deductable. So you're telling me, I'd be better off just footing the $7k emergency room bill while I was only in there for 1.5 hrs?

GTFOH!
Talk about something you've experienced instead of your well unthoughtout theories.

wutamess
06-13-2009, 02:43 AM
Also - you could us a HSA and save tax free for when you really need to use the healthcare and you have access to that money just like an IRA.

Everyone has it all figured out :rolleyes:.
What about the people with pre-existing conditions? only way they could afford insurance is through their job since a job's insurance plan can't deny coverage.

BRING ON UHC! It'll be liberating.

BucEyedPea
06-13-2009, 04:53 AM
You do realize that bankrupcies are because of HC right?
That doesn't tell me anything. And like I said, catastrophic coverage is designed to prevent that—which it does.

This year alone, I've had a colonoscopy and an upper GI along with all kinds of medical test. I've maxed out my deductable. So you're telling me, I'd be better off just footing the $7k emergency room bill while I was only in there for 1.5 hrs?
Yes I am telling you that.

GTFOH!
Talk about something you've experienced instead of your well unthoughtout theories.

Oh really, I had that type of insurance for years being self-employed. And I had to have an emergency C-Section which cost me $7,000 out of pocket for a $17,000 k procedure.
That was my deductible. I opted for a high deductible for low monthly premiums. Don't tell me what I need to experience. I'd rather pay $7000 then be wiped out including by years of high premiums. Overall I saved more money when you add it all up. At least I didn't have to file bankruptcy.

I also hobbled on crutches for year when I was temporarily off health insurance too. Until I got back on a policy which covered a pre-existing condition. That was due to picking up a job. That surgery cost me $60 for a $13k surgery at 10 minutes.

Like I said, people don't want to pay for any of their health care anymore. That's call thinking like a criminal—wanting something for nothing or having others pay for it. It's unethical. I'm not willing to pay for you to get your tourette syndrome handled with an expensive psychiatrist either just because you can't deal with a different opinion. You commies can be nasty.

HonestChieffan
06-13-2009, 05:49 AM
If given a choice of dropping employer insurance with all of the cost, hoops you have to jump though and denial of payment, or a government health plan in which everything is covered, most people would choose the government plan, even conservatives.

The goverment plan would kill the private plan and I hope like hell it happens sooner rather than later.

Thats lunacy

Saul Good
06-13-2009, 07:26 AM
Sounds like you've bought the propaganda hook line and sinker.

Yep. Our massive Federal Government is the one on the receiving end of the propaganda. That sounds right.

Saul Good
06-13-2009, 07:31 AM
That's amusing, since anything the government takes over will become even less efficient, more corrupt, and phenominally more expensive.

You also forget that access will have to be rationed, and the quality will degrade.

But hey, at least it's free.

When you ask a lib for an example of government efficiency, they invariably point towards the post office. You know, the same post office that is a monopoly, raises prices every year, and is still losing billions...

Once the government gets involved, it will be smooth sailing.

mlyonsd
06-13-2009, 07:47 AM
Also - you could us a HSA and save tax free for when you really need to use the healthcare and you have access to that money just like an IRA.

I switched to an HSA in 2008 and think it's great.

jjjayb
06-13-2009, 08:00 AM
If given a choice of dropping employer insurance with all of the cost, hoops you have to jump though and denial of payment, or a government health plan in which everything is covered, most people would choose the government plan, even conservatives.

The goverment plan would kill the private plan and I hope like hell it happens sooner rather than later.

Not this conservative. I've never had to jump through hoops or been denied payment. I'll take being able to see a doctor when I chose over what we'll get with government healthcare anyday.

Anyone ever been to a VA hospital? Take a visit to see what it'll be like when our healthcare is run by the government.

whoman69
06-13-2009, 09:13 AM
If the governemnt controls all aspects of healthcare they will have more power over your life. End of story.

Do you mumble that mantra in your sleep before you go to bed each night? I don't believe that anyone in Canada and the UK believe the government controls their lives. The American system will not be anywhere close to those socialized medicine options. Its been obvious the system has been broken for decades, yet nothing has been done. The fix is going to hurt, but its necessary.

Cannibal
06-13-2009, 10:06 AM
Okay. So I should have to pay for someone else's health care, on a permanent basis, right? That's what you propose?

WHY?

Do you support paying for the healthcare of people in the military? Do any of you? Because you are right now.

Cannibal
06-13-2009, 10:07 AM
You are young and stupid. I can tell you're are either lazy and don't want to support yourself or a spoiled asshole.

Oh - and you got some Obama on your chin.

You just lost any credibility you might have had, which wasn't much to begin with.

Cannibal
06-13-2009, 10:10 AM
That doesn't tell me anything. And like I said, catastrophic coverage is designed to prevent that—which it does.


Yes I am telling you that.



Oh really, I had that type of insurance for years being self-employed. And I had to have an emergency C-Section which cost me $7,000 out of pocket for a $17,000 k procedure.
That was my deductible. I opted for a high deductible for low monthly premiums. Don't tell me what I need to experience. I'd rather pay $7000 then be wiped out including by years of high premiums. Overall I saved more money when you add it all up. At least I didn't have to file bankruptcy.

I also hobbled on crutches for year when I was temporarily off health insurance too. Until I got back on a policy which covered a pre-existing condition. That was due to picking up a job. That surgery cost me $60 for a $13k surgery at 10 minutes.

Like I said, people don't want to pay for any of their health care anymore. That's call thinking like a criminal—wanting something for nothing or having others pay for it. It's unethical. I'm not willing to pay for you to get your tourette syndrome handled with an expensive psychiatrist either just because you can't deal with a different opinion. You commies can be nasty.

I guarantee you that at least 60-70% of this board does not have $7k lying around to pay for an emergency medical procedure.

SBK
06-13-2009, 10:10 AM
Do you support paying for the healthcare of people in the military? Do any of you? Because you are right now.

This is such a stupid argument.

Do you like paying for the President's health care? What about school teachers? What about public servants? Police men? Firemen?

What about the lazy ass who won't work and want to go to the emergency room 75 times a year? What about the cheap ass that does work but doesn't want to foot his own bill?

Cannibal
06-13-2009, 10:11 AM
This is such a stupid argument.

Do you like paying for the President's health care? What about school teachers? What about public servants? Police men? Firemen?

What about the lazy ass who won't work and want to go to the emergency room 75 times a year? What about the cheap ass that does work but doesn't want to foot his own bill?

You didn't answer the question. Do you support paying the healthcare for military families?

SBK
06-13-2009, 10:12 AM
I guarantee you that at least 60-70% of this board does not have $7k lying around to pay for an emergency medical procedure.

They they're bad with their money, and this is not someone else's problem.

Personal responsibility is dead in this country. Those who practice is are looked at like idiots, and demeaned by people who are just waiting to raid their paychecks.

SBK
06-13-2009, 10:13 AM
You didn't answer the question. Do you support paying the healthcare for military families?

This is gonna be hilarious......

Yes, I do support that.

Cannibal
06-13-2009, 10:14 AM
This is gonna be hilarious......

Yes, I do support that.

So you support socialized universal healthcare in some circumstances, but not all?

Cannibal
06-13-2009, 10:15 AM
I wonder if Military families feel like "the government controls their lives" with their healthcare?

SBK
06-13-2009, 10:16 AM
I wonder if Military families feel like "the government controls their lives"?

And there it is. LMAO

SBK
06-13-2009, 10:17 AM
So you support socialized universal healthcare in some circumstances, but not all?

None.

Cannibal
06-13-2009, 10:17 AM
And there it is. LMAO

Well... they are on government healthcare. I haven't met one yet that chooses to purchase private health insurance and ignore the government plan.

SBK
06-13-2009, 10:19 AM
Well... they are on government healthcare. I haven't met one yet that chooses to purchase private health insurance and ignore the government plan.

Are you familiar with the VA? Do you really think that makes a valid comparison to socialized medicine?

No wonder you voted for Obama.

Cannibal
06-13-2009, 10:19 AM
None.

Yes, you do. You support paying your tax dollars to sponsor socialized government healthcare for families in the military, you said so yourself.

Cannibal
06-13-2009, 10:19 AM
Are you familiar with the VA? Do you really think that makes a valid comparison to socialized medicine?

No wonder you voted for Obama.

My brother was in the Navy, so I am somewhat familiar with it.

Hydrae
06-13-2009, 10:36 AM
Yes, you do. You support paying your tax dollars to sponsor socialized government healthcare for families in the military, you said so yourself.

I support the idea that the employer of the military provides health care, yes. Given the service they are performing for our country I hope we provide this care free of charge. That does not mean that Joe the Plumber should get governmental health care.

The_Grand_Illusion
06-13-2009, 10:39 AM
Yes, you do. You support paying your tax dollars to sponsor socialized government healthcare for families in the military, you said so yourself.


Do you realize there is a huge fallacy to your argument that you are painting yourself into a corner with? The huge difference is our military WORK or HAS WORKED for our government. While our military has EARNED their benefits you are asking the American people to give you freebies you have NOT EARNED and force someone else to pay for it. I hope you realize that was not a good comparison.

TGI

Cannibal
06-13-2009, 10:43 AM
Do you realize there is a huge fallacy to your argument that you are painting yourself into a corner with? The huge difference is our military WORK or HAS WORKED for our government. While our military has EARNED their benefits you are asking the American people to give you freebies you have NOT EARNED and force someone else to pay for it. I hope you realize that was not a good comparison.

TGI

You are right about that. But yet you are still willing to pay for their healthcare. That is socialism. You are preaching to the choir though. I fully support healthcare for the military.

Hydrae
06-13-2009, 10:48 AM
You are right about that. But yet you are still willing to pay for their healthcare. That is socialism. You are preaching to the choir though. I fully support healthcare for the military.

It is no more socialism than the fact we pay them to begin with. This is a silly aguement you are trying to pursue.

Cannibal
06-13-2009, 10:50 AM
It is no more socialism than the fact we pay them to begin with. This is a silly aguement you are trying to pursue.

Not really. They could have to pay for their own like most people. (I am not for that), just saying they could.

mlyonsd
06-13-2009, 11:12 AM
Not really. They could have to pay for their own like most people. (I am not for that), just saying they could.

My employer picks up most of my health care.

Just like the government picks up most of the military's health care, because that's who employs them.

wutamess
06-13-2009, 11:42 AM
They they're bad with their money, and this is not someone else's problem.

Personal responsibility is dead in this country. Those who practice is are looked at like idiots, and demeaned by people who are just waiting to raid their paychecks.

That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. So just because people don't have $7k saved up they're bad with their money?

Fuggin retardicans still don't get it.

Hydrae
06-13-2009, 11:44 AM
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. So just because people don't have $7k saved up they're bad with their money?

Fuggin retardicans still don't get it.

I have a lovely $7K hospital bill from my wife's week in the hospital last year. This is after "insurance" too. I am making monthly payments, I sure didn't have it just laying around. I am not walking away from it either.

wild1
06-13-2009, 02:12 PM
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. So just because people don't have $7k saved up they're bad with their money?

Fuggin retardicans still don't get it.

If they are married and have 2 or 3 kids, I would say that's probably a bare minimum emergency fund.

Stewie
06-13-2009, 02:15 PM
If given a choice of dropping employer insurance with all of the cost, hoops you have to jump though and denial of payment, or a government health plan in which everything is covered, most people would choose the government plan, even conservatives.

The goverment plan would kill the private plan and I hope like hell it happens sooner rather than later.

It only took one post to find the dumbass in this thread. Good lord.

BucEyedPea
06-13-2009, 02:51 PM
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. So just because people don't have $7k saved up they're bad with their money?

Fuggin retardicans still don't get it.

Nope. I didn't have it. In fact if I wasn't going to invoke my deductible and pay cash out of pocket they were going to discount the procedure down to close to $7k. They do that a lot. I just wanted the extra protection in case anything else went wrong since it was major surgery and I was in the 2% highest risk bracket. That's what catastrophic is for. I would never pay out more than that $7k. So I just put it on my American Express when they wheeled me into the hospital. I wouldn't leave home without it.

In the month that transpired I figured out a way to finance it. Can't put a price on the gift of life.:thumb:

But I'm sure you could pay for a doctor visit or well baby visit right? No sweat there. What's the big deal. Most places offer a third to half off is cash.
I had a false cancer scare a few years back when I had torn my meniscus before I went back on a plan and that was all discounted 1/3. Then I found a gyno who offered 50% off. Really nice doctor. And said the diagnosis was BS as well.

BucEyedPea
06-13-2009, 02:57 PM
I guarantee you that at least 60-70% of this board does not have $7k lying around to pay for an emergency medical procedure.

I didn't either. I used a credit card.:evil: Too bad there were no 0% back then.

wutamess
06-13-2009, 04:15 PM
Uh... shouldn't all med prices be 1/3 to 1/2 off?
That's what healthcare would be for.
Those that need it get it.

Donger
06-13-2009, 05:19 PM
Do you support paying for the healthcare of people in the military? Do any of you? Because you are right now.

Absolutely. They are employed by the government of the United States of America.

Donger
06-13-2009, 05:21 PM
So you support socialized universal healthcare in some circumstances, but not all?

Having an employer pay one's health care costs isn't Socialism.

SBK
06-13-2009, 07:45 PM
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. So just because people don't have $7k saved up they're bad with their money?

Fuggin retardicans still don't get it.

Case in point. Responsible people are looked at as idiots.

You should save some money, it'll come in handy some day.

SBK
06-13-2009, 07:47 PM
You are right about that. But yet you are still willing to pay for their healthcare. That is socialism.

LMAO

Frankie esque level of wrong here.

***SPRAYER
06-13-2009, 07:53 PM
LMAO

Frankie esque level of wrong here.

http://www.howardstern.com/dtcms/tsimg/p/p_RS-10-23-07---gary-puppet.jpg
BRILLIANT COMRADE

wutamess
06-13-2009, 08:52 PM
Case in point. Responsible people are looked at as idiots.

You should save some money, it'll come in handy some day.

:spock: I have more than enough emergency fund saved up to handle adversity. I'd rather not spend it on healthcare because it's there when i could pay for it with my hard earned tax $'s.

If that's the case... there shouldn't be social security, medicare, medicaid or anything let you guys tell it. It's all the same thing. By you guys logic, the elderly should have saved enough money to handle themselves with whatever came up?

idealistically you'd want that to happen but realistically that's not the case.

SBK
06-13-2009, 10:50 PM
:spock: I have more than enough emergency fund saved up to handle adversity. I'd rather not spend it on healthcare because it's there when i could pay for it with my hard earned tax $'s.

If that's the case... there shouldn't be social security, medicare, medicaid or anything let you guys tell it. It's all the same thing. By you guys logic, the elderly should have saved enough money to handle themselves with whatever came up?

idealistically you'd want that to happen but realistically that's not the case.

Do you think if people didn't believe it was the gov'ts job to take care of their retirement they'd be more likely to be prepared?

banyon
06-14-2009, 09:34 AM
Do you think if people didn't believe it was the gov'ts job to take care of their retirement they'd be more likely to be prepared?

They weren't in the past.

donkhater
06-14-2009, 10:10 AM
They weren't in the past.

What past? Do you mean pre-social Security? Did people even retire before 1935? If so, they sure didn't with a third of their life left to live.

banyon
06-14-2009, 10:32 AM
What past? Do you mean pre-social Security? Did people even retire before 1935? If so, they sure didn't with a third of their life left to live.

When they did, they more often died in poverty as well.

NCarlsCorner2
06-14-2009, 10:47 AM
Having an employer pay one's health care costs isn't Socialism.

Do you think that if the Government gives everyone free health care that you wont be asked to do anything in return.

Donger
06-14-2009, 11:24 AM
Do you think that if the Government gives everyone free health care that you wont be asked to do anything in return.

Sure. I'll be "asked" to pay for it.