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Tribal Warfare
06-13-2009, 11:38 PM
Chiefs coach Haley not the type to take it easy on his team (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1250859.html)
By KENT BABB
The Kansas City Star

It was building inside Todd Haley, and nobody wanted to be counting clouds when the coach’s fuse expired.

Chiefs wide receiver Dwayne Bowe jumped when he didn’t have to and dropped an easy pass. Rookie tight end Jake O’Connell dropped a few, too. Thursday morning’s practice was a sloppy one: a 90-minute workout on a rain-soaked field and a group of players whose minds were veering toward vacation plans.

Then it happened. Another rookie made a mistake, and Haley’s patience clicked down to zero. There was an explosion. A loud recoil. And an unfortunate victim. Haley let the kid have it, and the rookie sulked back toward the huddle.

“I don’t know what happens to me out there,” Haley says later.

Haley hasn’t yet coached a game, but that might be a simple task compared with the first-year Chiefs coach’s offseason project. He’s trying to change a culture that has grown and spread the last two years in Kansas City: a belief that losing is unavoidable, that youth and weaknesses excuse the worst two-season stretch in franchise history, and the notion that willpower and faith — and not hard work — are the keys to playoff spots.

Haley disagrees, and he’s not always polite about it. Players acknowledge that Haley is their boss and they have to do what he says, but there has been a roughness to the coach’s first six months that this Chiefs locker room wasn’t used to under former coach Herm Edwards.

“One coach has a little bit more personable style,” veteran safety Jon McGraw says of Edwards, “and the other coach goes about it in a little bit different way.”

Haley and guard Brian Waters reportedly shared a fiery confrontation in March that, as of last week, hadn’t been resolved. Long practices end with relentless running sessions. Players who report overweight are grilled by coaches, dogged by trainers and dangled to the media. Other players have questioned whether Haley’s no-nonsense, one-sided approach can work — and whether it will work in time for the Chiefs to keep the faith.

There are doubts, but Haley says he won’t be fazed. He is in a tough, but perhaps necessary, position: a man who has led and been led by unrelenting and determined forces, and he believes he’s one of 32 NFL head coaches because that method works.

No sympathy. No censorship. No filter. That’s the way the Chiefs are being run these days. And although Haley admits his approach might lead to some defections, maybe that’s what this is all about: discovering who can cut it in a system that refuses to wait for greatness.

“Right now,” Haley says, “if I’m losing you, I probably don’t want you. That’s my philosophy. I want guys that I can’t lose right now, regardless of what I do.”

• • •

The practice field is quiet, and there’s a man running in the distance. He’s being punished. It’s the late 1990s, and Bill Parcells is in charge of the New York Jets. Parcells isn’t the type to overlook mistakes, whether a star player steps out of line or a grunt coughs up the wrong answer to a big question.

Players are watching as the man runs to a fence — coach’s orders. Some of the players are confused that an assistant coach, a young Todd Haley, is in Parcells’ crosshairs this time. Haley made a mistake, and he understood the hard way that there were no excuses and no compassion. He messed up the Jets’ practice schedule, and carelessness has consequences. So Parcells made him run.

“In front of the whole team,” Haley says now. “I was the whipping boy. I think Bill did most everything he could to get me to quit or to see what I was worth.”

Other coaches did quit. They couldn’t handle the abuse. Haley admits that he sometimes questioned Parcells’ approach and whether he fit into this unforgiving game. Haley’s dad, the legendary personnel man Dick Haley, might get a talking-to from his general manager if he missed on a draft pick. But running to the fence while the boss watched and players cackled was never part of the equation.

Todd Haley craved validation in those days. Later, when Parcells hired Haley to coordinate the passing game in Dallas, the old coach often walked off the field with anger on his breath, cursing the pass offense and muttering that it must be the worst group in the league. Parcells said it loud enough for Haley to hear it, and that wasn’t an accident.

“If you coach for Bill Parcells,” Haley says, “there is not one day you can take a breath. It’s like dog years: One year working for him equals seven. But it makes you better.”

Haley has his own head coaching job now, among the many who left Parcells’ flock and eventually led his own NFL team. Parcells kept his assistants uncomfortable, and they coached with greatness and survival in mind. If Parcells was disappointed, an assistant coach’s life was hell. And if it went on long enough, the assistant would be cast out of the flock against his wishes, relief giving way to the inescapable trap of failure.

Parcells was hard on his assistants, but he was harder on the ones with a future. Parcells would find Haley in a quiet corner somewhere, drape an arm on the kid’s shoulders and tell him that he had something, and Parcells was being tough on him because he might be a head coach someday.

“All of a sudden,” Haley says, “you stand up a little taller.”

Haley says his experience is part of the reason he’s 42 years old and sitting in the top coaching office at Chiefs headquarters. But the hunger for validation hasn’t weakened. Haley says he wants to prove to Parcells, more than a decade after the old coach made him run, that Dick Haley’s kid knows a thing or two.

Todd Haley has been waiting for years for Parcells to call and tell him that he has made it. That all the hard lessons paid off. That Todd Haley belongs. Then again, Haley says, it’s the pursuit of that call that kept him up all those nights, made him push all those players, and drove the young coach to unimaginable heights. It’s the same reason he still arrives early, stays late and makes his players’ lives miserable. Maybe someday that call will come. Then again, maybe not.

“If I didn’t get a call after getting the Arizona Cardinals to the Super Bowl,” Haley says, “I may never get a call.”

But Haley will keep pushing, just in case.

• • •

Larry Fitzgerald enters the meeting room and notices the unforgiving face at the front. The Cardinals wide receiver is a star in the making, but Arizona’s offensive coordinator isn’t the type to be starstruck or even merciful.

Fitzgerald walks toward Haley and jokingly motions toward his wallet. How much will it take? How about a little mercy when the film starts revealing mistakes? Haley says Fitzgerald would walk away with his head down, disappointed and anxious for the upcoming verbal assault.

“He used to fear team meetings,” Haley says. “It doesn’t matter who you are. I’ve just been taught to hold everybody accountable, hold everybody to the same level.”

Haley doesn’t have the star power in Kansas City that his offense possessed in Arizona. There is no Fitzgerald or Anquan Boldin, and even the most desperate optimist might pause before comparing Chiefs quarterback Matt Cassel with Kurt Warner. But Haley does have individuals in that locker room, 85 of them now, that he has to contend with. Those are 85 personalities, 85 sets of feelings and opinions, and 85 levels of caution and pride. He had his run-ins in Arizona and Dallas, but Haley doesn’t apologize for his style.

Bowe said last week that Haley has suggested the third-year receiver tone down the attention-grabbing behavior of years past. Offensive tackle Branden Albert says Haley hasn’t let up on him since Albert reported overweight to offseason practice, even after Albert lost 30 pounds since March. All around the locker room, the personality has been muted. No loud music, no me-first interviews and not even a Chiefs logo on the side of the team’s red helmets. Not until those privileges are earned.

“There’s not a lot of bull,” guard Mike Goff says.

And not a lot of fun. Haley is so regimented that even fun has laws. Three of them: A man has to do what he wants to do, surround himself with the people he wants to be with, and do his job well.

“Otherwise,” he says, “you can’t have it. You shouldn’t be having fun if one of those variables is out of line.”

Some players have recoiled at the new way. Bowe promises that he will eventually return to the flexing and dancing on the practice-field sidelines. McGraw says that he doesn’t respond well to yelling and screaming, that his preferred coaching style is inspiration.

“I’m not big on being motivated by fear,” McGraw says.

But McGraw admits that however Haley decides to run this team, he will conform and will not complain. After all, the way the last two seasons went, who would argue that it wasn’t time for a change?

“Why do you think that Haley is here? It’s not because things have been going well,” says Len Dawson, the Chiefs’ Hall of Fame quarterback. “Sometimes you need that, to awaken you and get you focused.”

That’s what Haley says was the point of his singling out Fitzgerald. Haley says he saw greatness in the receiver and refused to let up until Fitzgerald reached his potential. There are players in the Chiefs locker room who might possess Fitzgerald’s talent and have at least gotten Haley’s attention. Albert, for better or worse, will remain in the coach’s sights.

And who’s to say a Chiefs player might not someday take Haley’s approach, channel the fear and intimidation and meanness into motivation, and be at the center of a story like this:

“I told Larry the first time I ever met him: ‘I’m not trying to be your buddy,’ ” Haley says. “ ‘I’m your coach, and I’m trying to get the most out of you. I’m trying to get you to be great. Hopefully, when it’s all said and done, we’ll be high-fiving over the Super Bowl trophy.’

“We didn’t quite get there. But when we won that championship game against Philly, that’s when Larry pulled me aside and said: ‘Thanks for keeping your foot on my throat. You did it. You made me great.’ ”

• • •

The Chiefs coach sits in a quiet room and talks football, ancient history and expectations. All of it leads to what Haley hopes is — “Whoa,” the coach says, his attention stolen.

A rookie leaves practice with a teammate and slips on his way down a concrete staircase. Haley sees the fall and watches as the player gets up, uninjured but embarrassed. Haley smiles and holds up both hands: If that was the player’s idea of sticking the landing, then Haley would judge it a 10. The player notices Haley’s reaction, and both men laugh despite the glass wall and the rungs of authority between them.

Yes, Haley appreciates the lighter side of football, too. The humor that inevitably grows from the cluster of 85 young and occasionally insecure men congregating inside the Chiefs locker room. Haley says it’s healthy to laugh and enjoy how far he has come.

“You can’t be a robot,” he says. “Robots don’t last long.”

But robots are built to work, and Haley is wired that way. He says the Chiefs have a long way to go before they shed the habits of the past. But they are making progress. The Chiefs had a sharp practice last Tuesday, and Haley rewarded players by nixing the afternoon run. Haley was leaving the field when he turned and noticed 20 or so players running on their own time and another 20 running routes or practicing their drops or reacting to snaps.

“We were starting to get it,” Haley says. “It’s showing up. We’re getting more and more guys who are doing it the way it needs to be done.”

It’ll take time, he admits. Thursday’s sloppy practice was proof that work remains — but patience does not. There’s only one way that Haley knows to improve the Chiefs’ odds of being better tomorrow than they were yesterday, and whether they like it or not, that’s the way he’ll keep directing them.

“When you’ve lost a bunch,” he says, “it becomes habitual. Those traits show up consistently on a team that loses consistently, so trying to get it going in the other direction, where people start to believe that all this is for the better, it takes some work.

“Maybe we can have some fun down the road. We all work too hard in this business, players and coaches alike, to suffer through too much losing. It’s not worth it.”

BWillie
06-13-2009, 11:56 PM
Haley is the type of coach I needed in college. My coach was way to passive and nothing she said I could take seriously. Granted, I didn't play a sport, I played golf. But me and my buddy were total team cancers. We clearly did not give a f*ck. We routinely skipped practice because everybody else sucked, and we didn't think our FEMALE man looking coach would bench us. We over slept a couple tournaments because we were too drunk. We routinely were written up for minor in possessions and would take the freshman to strip clubs the night before tournaments and then tee off drunk the next morning. I would practice on the range hitting a massive high duck hook over the practice range netting and brag about the houses I hit. I mean shit, if I had todd haley as much golf coach back then I probably would of been on the PGA tour by now b'cuz that shit wouldn't slide.

Buehler445
06-14-2009, 12:02 AM
I see the media is trying to put a negative spin on it.

BigChiefFan
06-14-2009, 12:06 AM
If they aren't cutting it(which they aren't), then they need to be pushed to perform at a higher level. Haley is what this team has desperately needed. No praise, until you EARN it. I think the Chiefs could surprise a little this year.

KcFanInGA
06-14-2009, 12:09 AM
I'm glad Haley is all over these guys. We have talent on this team, Haley is going to wake up the ones who have it, weed out the ones that don't, period. These guys don't need a buddy, the need a coach, and it sounds like we have that now.

KcFanInGA
06-14-2009, 12:10 AM
I see the media is trying to put a negative spin on it.

Agreed, this article does have a negative tone to it.

Slainte
06-14-2009, 12:19 AM
“I’m not big on being motivated by fear,” McGraw says.

How 'bout being motivated by the lack of a paycheck, fatass. You're not employed at Disneyland any more. Or just go home.

alanm
06-14-2009, 12:25 AM
And I hope to hell he doesn't hold back on tackling drills or live tackling in scrimmages in TC.
I don't care how much a guy is getting paid. :#

ChiefMojo
06-14-2009, 12:27 AM
There are going to be many that don't care for Haley one bit because of his style of coaching. The only way he will win over everyone is by winning. Look at Parcells and Coughlin. Parcells normally always wins and people have to live with his style. When New York wasn't getting the job done, everyone cried that Coughlin was just to much of a meany. Now that they constantly win, people are easier to forgive his harshness.

We are going from a personable coach that wanted to give out hugs and candy to a coach that much rather kick you in the butt to get you going and give you a smile when you did something right.

Honestly I think it is the style the Chiefs need right now!

FAX
06-14-2009, 12:39 AM
I love it. The only problem is that his style is such a radical departure from both Uncle Dick's and Herm's. The culture shock will cause problems. Nevertheless, it's what's needed, in my view.

The article is right about the "losing mentality". We have a bad case of it. Haley will prove to be the right choice if he can turn that around.

FAX

DaWolf
06-14-2009, 12:42 AM
This'll work out great if he wins. If he doesn't, then guys could tune him out real quick. Still, this is going to be about Pioli getting Haley players that can play for him. It's not going to happen overnight.

It'll be interesting to see this unfold. I'm certainly not a fan of the a-hole style, however right now that may be what this team needs to weed the losers out, and over time I would expect Haley to adjust a bit if his players start performing at a higher level. Still, you always want someone in charge that the players will want to fight for and win with, and it may end up being a fine line with Haley if he goes overboard with it...

Buehler445
06-14-2009, 12:51 AM
There are going to be many that don't care for Haley one bit because of his style of coaching. The only way he will win over everyone is by winning. Look at Parcells and Coughlin. Parcells normally always wins and people have to live with his style. When New York wasn't getting the job done, everyone cried that Coughlin was just to much of a meany. Now that they constantly win, people are easier to forgive his harshness.

We are going from a personable coach that wanted to give out hugs and candy to a coach that much rather kick you in the butt to get you going and give you a smile when you did something right.

Honestly I think it is the style the Chiefs need right now!

Agreed. Coughlin was almost fired. There was a LOT of talk about him getting the can.

The same fate could fall on Haley. You're right that whipping these coddled pussies that Herm created into shape is critical to the success of the team. But is Haley's way the best? Will it win us a Super Bowl? Who knows.

I believe there are times when a Head Coach has to maintain team morale. Herm was a toolbox and couldn't do it, but I don't think yelling and screaming the whole time will do it either.

Ultimately, like anyone else, he has to produce.

pr_capone
06-14-2009, 01:03 AM
Haley need to put up 2 winning seasons and a playoff appearance in the next 4 years... preferably in 3.

I will reserve doubt until the end of the 3rd season.

I think that after the hug fest Herm had going on in KC, Haley's attitude is just what we need. If you want to have fun 24/7 playing football... then go play in another league. These guys get paid WAY too much to want their hands held.

58kcfan89
06-14-2009, 01:06 AM
I'm one of those guys who loves the coach being a hardass, especially to a young team. But at the same time, I hope Haley can find the ability to praise a player when he deserves it. It's fine that you want to explode on certain guys and keep everyone on their toes, I love that. But I think at the same time, you have to be able to show the guys that they are capable of doing things right. It's fine that he can laugh at certain things, but can he praise a guy when it's warranted?

alanm
06-14-2009, 01:31 AM
Agreed. Coughlin was almost fired. There was a LOT of talk about him getting the can.

The same fate could fall on Haley. You're right that whipping these coddled pussies that Herm created into shape is critical to the success of the team. But is Haley's way the best? Will it win us a Super Bowl? Who knows.

I believe there are times when a Head Coach has to maintain team morale. Herm was a toolbox and couldn't do it, but I don't think yelling and screaming the whole time will do it either.

Ultimately, like anyone else, he has to produce.He's instilling toughness. Mental and physical. That can only be done with a guy that's a strict disciplinarian. It worked in N.E. with Bellicek in NY with Parcells and Coughlin also. It worked with Marty as well. Although Marty wasn't quite as strict as a guy like Parcells.
It will work here. But the key is knowing when to pull back. Plus you have to praise them for the good things a guy is doing.
And you have to be consistent.
It'll work here.

Buehler445
06-14-2009, 02:11 AM
He's instilling toughness. Mental and physical. That can only be done with a guy that's a strict disciplinarian. It worked in N.E. with Bellicek in NY with Parcells and Coughlin also. It worked with Marty as well. Although Marty wasn't quite as strict as a guy like Parcells.
It will work here. But the key is knowing when to pull back. Plus you have to praise them for the good things a guy is doing.
And you have to be consistent.
It'll work here.

That's where Haley will make or break himself.

|Zach|
06-14-2009, 02:34 AM
I see the media is trying to put a negative spin on it.

How did you come away with that?

Psyko Tek
06-14-2009, 02:41 AM
things i got out this article

yeah tony had to go
I wish he hadn't but th best tight end the wortldhas ever seen wouldn't go with this
and the teamwould have used hin to take rthe easy way out


I like haly
this team needs a foot at their throatsthe last 3 coaches have sucked
vermiel's greatest show on truf wasn't football
no D
if you ain't got d you ain't a football team
the only reason KC has had any success this decade was the offensive line

and we don't have that now

we need a d
and we need an o line
and then we can be at least good

drunken ramblings over
carry on

sodcat
06-14-2009, 07:44 AM
I too tend to believe that we will be a little bit better this season due to the fact that Haley is pushing the players w/talent and now they will hopefully live up to their full potential, i'd say it's a safe bet to say we had some slackers the last few years who did not contribute to their full potential!

Coogs
06-14-2009, 08:47 AM
I'm one of those guys who loves the coach being a hardass, especially to a young team. But at the same time, I hope Haley can find the ability to praise a player when he deserves it. It's fine that you want to explode on certain guys and keep everyone on their toes, I love that. But I think at the same time, you have to be able to show the guys that they are capable of doing things right. It's fine that he can laugh at certain things, but can he praise a guy when it's warranted?


Parcells was hard on his assistants, but he was harder on the ones with a future. Parcells would find Haley in a quiet corner somewhere, drape an arm on the kid’s shoulders and tell him that he had something, and Parcells was being tough on him because he might be a head coach someday.

“All of a sudden,” Haley says, “you stand up a little taller.”


Seems to me that Haley may understand tht point.

Mizzou_8541
06-14-2009, 09:02 AM
“One coach has a little bit more personable style,” veteran safety Jon McGraw says of Edwards, “and the other coach goes about it in a little bit different way.”



He's just pissed because his meal ticket is gone and he now has to actually has to prove he can play to make the team.

Buehler445
06-14-2009, 09:38 AM
How did you come away with that?

Haley disagrees, and he’s not always polite about it. Players acknowledge that Haley is their boss and they have to do what he says, the terms he used there have a LOT of negative connotation. Especially the term "boss" and they HAVE to do what he says. Nothing in there about understanding the coaching style or anything positive in that statement. but there has been a roughness to the coach’s first six months that this Chiefs locker room wasn’t used to under former coach Herm Edwards.

See bolded and red statementws

“One coach has a little bit more personable style,” it can be easily implied that he liked that style. veteran safety Jon McGraw says of Edwards, “and the other coach goes about it in a little bit different way.”

Haley and guard Brian Waters reportedly shared a fiery confrontation in March that, as of last week, hadn’t been resolved. Long practices end with relentless running sessions. Players who report overweight are grilled by coaches, dogged by trainers and dangled to the media. Other players have questioned whether Haley’s no-nonsense, one-sided approach can work — and whether it will work in time for the Chiefs to keep the faith.

Lots more words with negative connotation. Bolded statement is trying to forshadow particular negativity.

There are doubts, but Haley says he won’t be fazed. He is in a tough, but perhaps necessary, position: a man who has led and been led by unrelenting and determined forces, and he believes he’s one of 32 NFL head coaches because that method works.

Here it appears the author is trying to recoup with some positive statements. But it could be implied that Haley himself is the only one that believes in his system.

No sympathy. No censorship. No filter. more negative connotation. That’s the way the Chiefs are being run these days. And although Haley admits his approach might lead to some defections more forshadowing, maybe that’s what this is all about: discovering who can cut it in a system that refuses to wait for greatness.


[B]The practice field is quiet, and there’s a man running in the distance. He’s being punished. It’s the late 1990s, and Bill Parcells is in charge of the New York Jets. Parcells isn’t the type to overlook mistakes, whether a star player steps out of line or a grunt coughs up the wrong answer to a big question. This part is comparing Haley to Parcells and is notably positive, even if it is a reach. The rest of the segment (it's really long). Just basically says that Parcells believed in him. I guess that is sort of positive




Bowe said last week that Haley has suggested the third-year receiver tone down the attention-grabbing behavior of years past. Offensive tackle Branden Albert says Haley hasn’t let up on him since Albert reported overweight to offseason practice, even after Albert lost 30 pounds since March. All around the locker room, the personality has been muted. More negative connotation. No loud music, no me-first interviews and not even a Chiefs logo on the side of the team’s red helmets. Not until those privileges are earned.


And not a lot of fun. Haley is so regimented that even fun has laws. Three of them: A man has to do what he wants to do, surround himself with the people he wants to be with, and do his job well.

“Otherwise,” he says, “you can’t have it. You shouldn’t be having fun if one of those variables is out of line.” Very very negative words used here. Think about how this would have been articulated when the media still liked Herm..."Coach Edwards tries to teach the players to be responsible and he used to be a player blah blah blah..."

Some players have recoiled at the new way.It's June and they are trying to plant the seeds of revolt. Bowe promises that he will eventually return to the flexing and dancing on the practice-field sidelines. suggesting there is no buy in.McGraw says that he doesn’t respond well to yelling and screaming, that his preferred coaching style is inspiration.

“I’m not big on being motivated by fear,” McGraw says. More players with no buy in.

But McGraw admits that however Haley decides to run this team, he will conform and will not complain. After all, the way the last two seasons went, who would argue that it wasn’t time for a change? some more negative connotation.




“We didn’t quite get there. But when we won that championship game against Philly, that’s when Larry pulled me aside and said: ‘Thanks for keeping your foot on my throat. You did it. You made me great.’ ” Another positive note. But again, not related to the Chiefs.



The Chiefs coach sits in a quiet room and talks football, ancient history and expectations. All of it leads to what Haley hopes is — “Whoa,” the coach says, his attention stolen.

A rookie leaves practice with a teammate and slips on his way down a concrete staircase. Haley sees the fall and watches as the player gets up, uninjured but embarrassed. Haley smiles and holds up both hands: If that was the player’s idea of sticking the landing, then Haley would judge it a 10. The player notices Haley’s reaction, and both men laugh despite the glass wall and the rungs of authority between them.

Yes, Haley appreciates the lighter side of football, too. The humor that inevitably grows from the cluster of 85 young and occasionally insecure men congregating inside the Chiefs locker room. Haley says it’s healthy to laugh and enjoy how far he has come.

“You can’t be a robot,” he says. “Robots don’t last long.”

But robots are built to work, and Haley is wired that way. He says the Chiefs have a long way to go before they shed the habits of the past. But they are making progress. The Chiefs had a sharp practice last Tuesday, and Haley rewarded players by nixing the afternoon run. Haley was leaving the field when he turned and noticed 20 or so players running on their own time and another 20 running routes or practicing their drops or reacting to snaps.

This segment could be construed as positive. Haley trying to point out that he is not a robot. But again, it is nobody but Haley saying that he's not all hardass. No player quotes or journalistic implications that he is on the right track like there was with players not liking his system, not buying in, etc.


“We were starting to get it,” Haley says. “It’s showing up. We’re getting more and more guys who are doing it the way it needs to be done.”

It’ll take time, he admits. Thursday’s sloppy practice was proof that work remains — but patience does not. There’s only one way that Haley knows to improve the Chiefs’ odds of being better tomorrow than they were yesterday, and whether they like it or not, that’s the way he’ll keep directing them.

“When you’ve lost a bunch,” he says, “it becomes habitual. Those traits show up consistently on a team that loses consistently, so trying to get it going in the other direction, where people start to believe that all this is for the better, it takes some work.

“Maybe we can have some fun down the road. We all work too hard in this business, players and coaches alike, to suffer through too much losing. It’s not worth it.” This again is Haley talking and nothing else to back his story up.

So let's review. Positives.

He's compared (sort of) to Parcells
Parcells believed in him
Haley said he made Fitz great. Note though that the author doesn't imply that his style worked on a large scale or that the author agreed with it.
Haley saying that he isn't a robot. Again, he is the only one saying it. No player quotes or anything.
[/LIST]

So the positives were pretty light and had nothing to do with the Chiefs. There were no player quotes or anything other than what Haley was saying to support the direction. Most notably including the connotations of words used by the author.

Now lets do the negatives.

It's June and he is already suggesting that players don't like the new direction
It's June and he is already suggesting that the players don't buy in.
use of words with tremendous negative connotation suggesting the author believes the negative portions of the article when compared to the words used in the positive


So we talked to lots of plaers and they all didn't like or didn't buy into the system. Not one said they liked the direction or that it was needed or even positive at the current time. The negative is much more overwhelming than the positive.

Listen, I'm no journalist and don't know shit about writing or anything like that. It just appeared to me that the article had a very negative tone.

BarrySPAMAID
06-14-2009, 10:16 AM
If they aren't cutting it(which they aren't), then they need to be pushed to perform at a higher level. Haley is what this team has desperately needed. No praise, until you EARN it. I think the Chiefs could surprise a little this year.

Exactly, and this team was less than 50 points from 10 wins last season. Better coaching, conditioning, and leadership equals AFC west WIDE OPEN.


I'm glad Haley is all over these guys. We have talent on this team, Haley is going to wake up the ones who have it, weed out the ones that don't, period. These guys don't need a buddy, the need a coach, and it sounds like we have that now.

WE DO! A coach with a little fire, that's what I'm talking about!!

Agreed, this article does have a negative tone to it.
Ya, this isnt the first one out of Babb lately too. He needs a gut check.

Mr. Krab
06-14-2009, 10:18 AM
I see the media is trying to put a negative spin on it.
Carl?

milkman
06-14-2009, 10:18 AM
Exactly, and this team was less than 50 points from 10 wins last season. Better coaching, conditioning, and leadership equals AFC west WIDE OPEN.




WE DO! A coach with a little fire, that's what I'm talking about!!


Ya, this isnt the first one out of Babb lately too. He needs a gut check.

I've never really had the chance to tell you Barry, that you are a fucking idiot.

orange
06-14-2009, 10:19 AM
So we talked to lots of plaers and they all didn't like or didn't buy into the system. Not one said they liked the direction or that it was needed or even positive at the current time. The negative is much more overwhelming than the positive.

Listen, I'm no journalist and don't know shit about writing or anything like that. It just appeared to me that the article had a very negative tone.


In years past when KC reporters wanted a quote from a player about how well the coaches were doing they could always go to Brian Waters or Tony Gonzalez. o:-)

Mr. Krab
06-14-2009, 10:19 AM
Haley is walking a fine line, boom or bust. If he succeeds everyone will cheer him and call him a genious. If he fails then they will say he's a loudmouth jerk who pissed everybody off and lost his team. I hope he succeeds.

:shrug:

KCUnited
06-14-2009, 10:23 AM
Be interesting to see how he holds up over a losing season/seasons. I think its his toughness that will be spotlighted.

Baby Lee
06-14-2009, 10:24 AM
we need a d
and we need an o line
and then we can be at least good
True Fan Haiku?

FAX
06-14-2009, 10:37 AM
Isn't McGraw the guy who was Herm's buddy, or something? I can't recall if it was McGraw or another guy ... I think it was him. I think. He was like Herm's adopted son, or something like that ... Godfather to his kids, maybe. Dropped by on weekends for Triscuits and chili. Gave Herm massages and helped him load his ipod. Something like that.

If so, using quotes from him is like asking Sarah Palin's uncle Vern to comment on last night's Letterman show. More media bias against our one, true, last hope. Godspeed, Todd Haley.

FAX

JuicesFlowing
06-14-2009, 11:02 AM
I'm glad Haley is all over these guys. We have talent on this team, Haley is going to wake up the ones who have it, weed out the ones that don't, period. These guys don't need a buddy, the need a coach, and it sounds like we have that now.

I agree. The last two coaches were like that. At least this season the team should be conditioned and prepared on opening day, as opposed to starting slow and taking the first four weeks of the season to get going.

The Bad Guy
06-14-2009, 11:07 AM
I hope Haley rules with an iron fist. This team has been completely pussified for the last 10 years by Gunther, Vermeil and Herm. He has to change 10 years of bullshit.

Who cares if he's tough on the players? Jon McGraw wants a country club atmosphere so he can feel comfortable. The reason we were 6 and 26 the last 2 years because everyone was comfortable.

Haley will let up when the team performs like him and Pioli envision. Until then, he should keep his foot on their throats all day, everyday.

DTLB58
06-14-2009, 11:21 AM
I just yesterday finsihed reading the book "The Education Of A Coach" by David Halberstam and Bill Belichick. Good read.

I had to smile yesterday as I read the last few chapters, some of the things Bill said he did in practice is some of the same stuff that is being reported Haley is doing in OTA's now with the Chiefs.

One example, the players wanted let out of practice early or wanted to avoid running the sprints at the end of practice so to avoid that, one of the OL were required to catch a punt. If the punt was dropped everyone would not only have to stay at practice and run the sprints but run extra sprints.

The book also has quite a bit of info on the relationship of Belichick and pioli in the later chapters.

I've always been a big fan of Parcells and I just read a book on the other Bill so needless to say I'm really excited that Haley is the new coach and really loving his style.

FAX
06-14-2009, 11:25 AM
The problem is, of course, that players in this day and age want to be treated with respect and deference - regardless of their performance.

Hard-ass coaches often wind up with a full-scale revolt on their hands (see NY Giants). The good thing in this case is that Pioli will back Haley all the way and Clark will back Pioli and somebody will back Clark, although I don't really know who that person will be.

As you peeps have said, it's all about the wins. We are a franchise with little or no pride left. Thanks to Herm, even the Arrowhead Advantage no longer exists and the smelly, lowly Raiders can kick our ass on any given Sunday.

In a perfect world, Haley's approach will get us a W or two early on in the season and we can begin that long, tedious, difficult climb back to respectability. Along the way, if a couple of players have to be decapitated, disemboweled, and their limp, decaying bodies hung from the goalposts, so be it.

If I've said it once, I've said it a million times; A decapitated, disemboweled player doesn't bitch much.

FAX

JD10367
06-14-2009, 11:29 AM
Anyone think Belichick takes it easy on his teams?

If you win, you have no problems.

Look at Coughlin. He was simply an old hard-ass.... until the Giants won the Super Bowl two years ago, then he was awesome. :shrug:

Players don't need an easy coach, or a buddy any more than little children need their parents to be easy or buddies. Pete Carroll tried that and didn't last too long. Players--especially underachieving players on a bad team--need discipline. When the team becomes good, and the players become veterans who play up to their potential, then they can be trusted to work hard when they need to.

Until the Chiefs become decent, it should be Haley's way or the highway. And the GM/ownership need to stick with Haley if they trust in his vision and in the direction he's taking the team.

whoman69
06-14-2009, 11:36 AM
There are going to be many that don't care for Haley one bit because of his style of coaching. The only way he will win over everyone is by winning. Look at Parcells and Coughlin. Parcells normally always wins and people have to live with his style. When New York wasn't getting the job done, everyone cried that Coughlin was just to much of a meany. Now that they constantly win, people are easier to forgive his harshness.

We are going from a personable coach that wanted to give out hugs and candy to a coach that much rather kick you in the butt to get you going and give you a smile when you did something right.

Honestly I think it is the style the Chiefs need right now!

Coughlin backed down when he knew he went over the edge. He was raked over the coals for that 5 minutes early for practice fiasco. His job was on the line and he changed. He still believed in personal responsibility, but he wasn't on his players all the time.

Tony Dungy did not scream and rant at his players. He believed that for every negative you told a player, you had to find a positive. Tony Dungy was a great coach, but that would not have worked here. Herm was the same way, only he routinely threw his players and coaches under the bus at press conferences while avoiding any personal responsibility. He admitted that during the bye week the team tried to get the defense out of bad habits they had gain. The results of the Carolina game show how successful that effort was.

After Herm this team needs someone that is going to get on everyone and make them work. We are a soft football team with talent being wasted. Vermeil was a hard ass his first few years in St. Louis. He had to back off that and they won the Super Bowl. The potential is there that Haley takes it too far. He needs to show players that they have not been living up to their potential. They need to work harder. They also need to be shown that when the hard work is showing that they are on the right track.

I saw Hard Knocks. When a player messed up he would joke around with his coaches about it, nothing to the player. They had short practices, and it showed in the 2nd half of games. This team needed a big change, not only to get the most out of players, but a strategic change as well. I don't think Herm Edwards could win the Super Bowl if he was coaching the Pro Bowl team for a full year.

DTLB58
06-14-2009, 11:38 AM
Isn't McGraw the guy who was Herm's buddy, or something? I can't recall if it was McGraw or another guy ... I think it was him. I think. He was like Herm's adopted son, or something like that ... Godfather to his kids, maybe. Dropped by on weekends for Triscuits and chili. Gave Herm massages and helped him load his ipod. Something like that.

If so, using quotes from him is like asking Sarah Palin's uncle Vern to comment on last night's Letterman show. More media bias against our one, true, last hope. Godspeed, Todd Haley.

FAX

Yes it was McGraw.

Haley has 3 seasons imo to have more wins than losses, some may say 2 but Scott and Clark know the real mess Herm left this team in so they may give him a little more time than the average owner/GM

milkman
06-14-2009, 11:43 AM
Coughlin backed down when he knew he went over the edge. He was raked over the coals for that 5 minutes early for practice fiasco. His job was on the line and he changed. He still believed in personal responsibility, but he wasn't on his players all the time.

Tony Dungy did not scream and rant at his players. He believed that for every negative you told a player, you had to find a positive. Tony Dungy was a great coach, but that would not have worked here. Herm was the same way, only he routinely threw his players and coaches under the bus at press conferences while avoiding any personal responsibility. He admitted that during the bye week the team tried to get the defense out of bad habits they had gain. The results of the Carolina game show how successful that effort was.

After Herm this team needs someone that is going to get on everyone and make them work. We are a soft football team with talent being wasted. Vermeil was a hard ass his first few years in St. Louis. He had to back off that and they won the Super Bowl. The potential is there that Haley takes it too far. He needs to show players that they have not been living up to their potential. They need to work harder. They also need to be shown that when the hard work is showing that they are on the right track.

I saw Hard Knocks. When a player messed up he would joke around with his coaches about it, nothing to the player. They had short practices, and it showed in the 2nd half of games. This team needed a big change, not only to get the most out of players, but a strategic change as well. I don't think Herm Edwards could win the Super Bowl if he was coaching the Pro Bowl team for a full year.

Tony Dungy is one of the most overrarted coaches ever, and the perfect illustration why QB is the single most important position on the field, by far.

JD10367
06-14-2009, 11:45 AM
Tony Dungy is one of the most overrarted coaches ever, and the perfect illustration why QB is the single most important position on the field, by far.

Dungy was touted as a defensive mastermind... and yet his Indy Ds sucked ass year after year for some reason. Dungy rode the coattails of Peyton Manning, IMO. And he's a sanctimonious opinionated self-important Bible-thumper who should shut his piehole and get the f**k out of the public eye and never be seen or heard from again.

Aside from that, I like the guy.

Rausch
06-14-2009, 11:48 AM
Tony Dungy is one of the most overrarted coaches ever, and the perfect illustration why QB is the single most important position on the field, by far.

Completely agree.

I don't see him any differently than Buddy Ryan. Great DC, average HC.

milkman
06-14-2009, 11:49 AM
Dungy was touted as a defensive mastermind... and yet his Indy Ds sucked ass year after year for some reason. Dungy rode the coattails of Peyton Manning, IMO. And he's a sanctimonious opinionated self-important Bible-thumper who should shut his piehole and get the f**k out of the public eye and never be seen or heard from again.

Aside from that, I like the guy.

I'll be damned.

I like this n00b.

crazycoffey
06-14-2009, 12:30 PM
True Fan Haiku?


nope not structured in 5-7-5.

True fan Haiku;

Hope in Matt Cassel,
and Clancy's three four defense.
Chiefs go to playoffs!


Meccamists Haiku;

Another bad draft,
way too many holes on this team.
Chiefs die in a fire!

Deberg_1990
06-14-2009, 12:35 PM
Tony Dungy is one of the most overrarted coaches ever, and the perfect illustration why QB is the single most important position on the field, by far.

and yet during Mannings only Super Bowl run, the team won in spite of his poor play...

Baby Lee
06-14-2009, 12:38 PM
nope not structured in 5-7-5.

True fan Haiku;

Hope in Matt Cassel,
and Clancy's three four defense.
Chiefs go to playoffs!


Meccamists Haiku;

Another bad draft,
way too many holes on this team.
Chiefs die in a fire!
You stroke the shaft, cuddle the balls and swallow the gravy at humor.

OF COURSE the structure wasn't perfect haiku canon, the original writer didn't intend it to be. But it did LOOK like Haiku, and perfectly summed up the 'true fan' stereotype,

ie, focus on the defense and o-line and we'll be 'good.'

milkman
06-14-2009, 12:45 PM
and yet during Mannings only Super Bowl run, the team won in spite of his poor play...

This is true.

I've pointed that out on more than once.

However, his play during the season did put them in position to make a run.

The fact is, he's that team's leader, even when he's not on his game, and the confidence that his team has in him gave them the confidence to go out and raise their own level of play at crucial times in that SB run.

crazycoffey
06-14-2009, 12:45 PM
They gotta earn the arrowhead? I remember a coach doing that for one of my high school teams, I remember hearing bill parcels do that for the cowboys, I like it, it's certainly a small step, but I still like it.

58kcfan89
06-14-2009, 12:49 PM
Seems to me that Haley may understand tht point.

Fair enough, but that's a coach-coach relationship, which I assume is quite a bit different than a player-coach relationship. I think he does understand the point, but only time will tell us that. Personally, I've loved just about everything I've read about him and hope he suceeds here and coaches us for the next 10+ years...

crazycoffey
06-14-2009, 12:52 PM
You stroke the shaft, cuddle the balls and swallow the gravy at humor.

OF COURSE the structure wasn't perfect haiku canon, the original writer didn't intend it to be. But it did LOOK like Haiku, and perfectly summed up the 'true fan' stereotype,

ie, focus on the defense and o-line and we'll be 'good.'


I thought it looked more like barely understandable ramblings however, I understood the "truefan" stereotype completely.

The BJ reference to humor, has me at a complete loss, but coming from you probably was an insult. So go slither back to DC, eat poo and die from dysentery....

Hog Farmer
06-14-2009, 01:47 PM
That was an awful long article . He could have just wrote, "Haley is an asshole and he learned it from Parcells " End of story.

milkman
06-14-2009, 04:58 PM
You know one guy that I think can really benefit from Haley's hardass approach and the new emphasis on conditioning is Damion McIntosh.

McIntosh isn't without talent, he simply lacks mental toughness, focus, and needs to improve his lower body strength.

I think he'll either be one of first the guys to lose his job because of Haley's demands, or we very well could see a huge improvement.

LaChapelle
06-14-2009, 05:03 PM
His poor wife. You call that sucking cock? Spit on that motherfucker, take it all in. AND DONT FORGET THE BALLS WOMAN!!

orange
06-14-2009, 05:03 PM
I find the whole "I've got to prove I'm a man to Coach P" business a bit freaky, personally.

"I may never get a call." Sounds like Desperate Wannabe-Housewives.

Rausch
06-14-2009, 05:05 PM
You know one guy that I think can really benefit from Haley's hardass approach and the new emphasis on conditioning is Damion McIntosh.

McIntosh isn't without talent, he simply lacks mental toughness, focus, and needs to improve his lower body strength.

I think he'll either be one of first the guys to lose his job because of Haley's demands, or we very well could see a huge improvement.

Exactly.

No more pulled labia injuries the week after he gets exposed by some schlub...

BarrySPAMAID
06-14-2009, 10:08 PM
This was a good read. Haley is going to whip these boys into shape!!

BigChiefFan
06-14-2009, 10:35 PM
You know one guy that I think can really benefit from Haley's hardass approach and the new emphasis on conditioning is Damion McIntosh.

McIntosh isn't without talent, he simply lacks mental toughness, focus, and needs to improve his lower body strength.

I think he'll either be one of first the guys to lose his job because of Haley's demands, or we very well could see a huge improvement.

McIntosh actually had a pretty good year, LAST YEAR. Regardless of the popular myth to the contrary around here.

DaneMcCloud
06-14-2009, 10:42 PM
No,he did not. Not in anyway, shape or form.
Posted via Mobile Device

BigChiefFan
06-14-2009, 10:46 PM
No,he did not. Not in anyway, shape or form.
Posted via Mobile DeviceGiving up 7 sacks total with Adrian Jones at his side isn't bad.

DaneMcCloud
06-14-2009, 10:53 PM
The Chiefs were in the shotgun most of the time, so that number is skewed. Before the spread, he got owned. Furthermore, the running game and goal line offense suffered greatly, which was the main reason the Chiefs couldn't score in the Red Zone or maintain long drives.
Posted via Mobile Device

BigChiefFan
06-14-2009, 11:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FwFgKstwdU&feature=related


Shotgun indicates it's either a pass play or a draw, that's isn't hard to figure out for a pass-rusher and actually gives the Defense the upper-hand. The QB benefits the most from the spread, not the offensive line players, in fact they(the O-Lineman) do MORE, to compensate for the WRs that don't stay in to help block, hence the word SPREAD(meaning spread out the defense). All it does is buy time for the QB to find his reads, but it handicaps the offense line in the process, because you are projecting the play calls due to the formation. Pass-rushers, don't have to worry about run-contain, thus giving them an advantage.

Buehler445
06-14-2009, 11:23 PM
You know one guy that I think can really benefit from Haley's hardass approach and the new emphasis on conditioning is Damion McIntosh.

McIntosh isn't without talent, he simply lacks mental toughness, focus, and needs to improve his lower body strength.

I think he'll either be one of first the guys to lose his job because of Haley's demands, or we very well could see a huge improvement.

That's an interesting thought. But my question is, can he really add lower body strength at his age? I certainly hope he improves because well...we ain't got shit else.

The Chiefs were in the shotgun most of the time, so that number is skewed. Before the spread, he got owned. Furthermore, the running game and goal line offense suffered greatly, which was the main reason the Chiefs couldn't score in the Red Zone or maintain long drives.
Posted via Mobile Device

This is pretty much true. He got totally pwned early in the year. In the Atlanta game there was a play where Abraham beat him and was by him before he even TOOK A STEP. That was embarrassing.

SenselessChiefsFan
06-15-2009, 07:31 AM
I am SOOOO glad that they traded Tony G. I just think he would be a real problem in this type of environment, especially given Haley's lack of experience.

irishjayhawk
06-15-2009, 10:36 AM
The media must not have much to write about. It's like the 15th article I've seen on this subject.

Mr. Krab
06-15-2009, 10:40 AM
The media must not have much to write about. It's like the 15th article I've seen on this subject.
Heh, i wonder if the media send each other emails saying "Reeeeeeeeeepost!!" :)

chiefzilla1501
06-15-2009, 11:21 AM
I find the whole "I've got to prove I'm a man to Coach P" business a bit freaky, personally.

"I may never get a call." Sounds like Desperate Wannabe-Housewives.

I agree to a very limited extent, and it's what really bothers about the KC media. There's so much ball-washing in the media that it's hard to tell truth from fiction. The reality is, right now, the Chiefs' players are really excited about their new coach and the fans are in the mindset that he is doing everything completely right. The truth is, this happens with every single new coach in the NFL, with the rare exception of a team like Indy or Pittsburgh, who had coaches leave at the top of their game. It's what I call the honeymoon effect. Players play their asses off and the media/fans adore the coach right away. But in 2-3 years, we'll see how good Haley really is and how much the players really buy in to what he's doing. There was once a point when Eric "Man-genius" could do no wrong, and when Sean Payton was dubbed the Saints' savior. Or when some in San Diego truly believed that Norv Turner was doing a better job than Marty.

That's why I'm cautiously optimistic. I know I'm giddy about the new coaching style, but I also realize that I'm falling victim to the honeymoon effect too.

FAX
06-15-2009, 01:42 PM
I agree to a very limited extent, and it's what really bothers about the KC media. There's so much ball-washing in the media that it's hard to tell truth from fiction. The reality is, right now, the Chiefs' players are really excited about their new coach and the fans are in the mindset that he is doing everything completely right. The truth is, this happens with every single new coach in the NFL, with the rare exception of a team like Indy or Pittsburgh, who had coaches leave at the top of their game. It's what I call the honeymoon effect. Players play their asses off and the media/fans adore the coach right away. But in 2-3 years, we'll see how good Haley really is and how much the players really buy in to what he's doing. There was once a point when Eric "Man-genius" could do no wrong, and when Sean Payton was dubbed the Saints' savior. Or when some in San Diego truly believed that Norv Turner was doing a better job than Marty.

That's why I'm cautiously optimistic. I know I'm giddy about the new coaching style, but I also realize that I'm falling victim to the honeymoon effect too.

There is great wisdom in your words of radioactive jelly, Mr. chiefzilla1501. It would be easier for everybody concerned if Haley weren't a rookie HC, though.

The "hard-ass" style has been proven to work in this league as Lombardi's record would attest. However, if you haven't proven to be a winner, it's kind of difficult to take a raving half-lunatic seriously.

Still, the sprints seem to be working. The team has lost a lot of weight demonstrating that Herm's approach was doomed. Therefore, I'm pro-Haley until game 6. I shall then reevaluate my position.

FAX

CoMoChief
06-15-2009, 01:45 PM
I am SOOOO glad that they traded Tony G. I just think he would be a real problem in this type of environment, especially given Haley's lack of experience.

If TG can handle Gunther he can handle Haley.


Trust me you won't be glad we traded TG come reg season when we're giving up 7-8 sacks a game and our passing offense is non-exsistent.

chiefzilla1501
06-15-2009, 02:52 PM
If TG can handle Gunther he can handle Haley.


Trust me you won't be glad we traded TG come reg season when we're giving up 7-8 sacks a game and our passing offense is non-exsistent.

Agreed. I still don't understand the logic of trading TG. If they can make Waters buy in to the system, why not Tony G? This is a guy who's endured four different head coaches before.

I think it was a mistake to trade him, given that we got pretty lousy compensation in return. What Cassel needed this year was options, even if only stopgaps, so that he can build confidence in himself. I don't understand why you trade TG, and then go on to pick up Goff, Zack Thomas, Engram, and Vrabel as stopgaps.

BigChiefFan
06-15-2009, 02:59 PM
Agreed. I still don't understand the logic of trading TG. If they can make Waters buy in to the system, why not Tony G? This is a guy who's endured four different head coaches before.

I think it was a mistake to trade him, given that we got pretty lousy compensation in return. What Cassel needed this year was options, even if only stopgaps, so that he can build confidence in himself. I don't understand why you trade TG, and then go on to pick up Goff, Zack Thomas, Engram, and Vrabel as stopgaps.Price tag is the reason why. Those guys you mentioned are smaller contracts for their positions and they all look to be contributors to our team. Gonzo netted us a SECOND Rounder for a TE.

Yes, he still has skills, but he's nearing the end of his career(which is why you do the deal now). He was one of the only players on the team that could give us signifigant compensation in return, so we took it. I think the front office realizes this is a rebuilding year and are playing their hand, as such.

milkman
06-15-2009, 04:35 PM
If TG can handle Gunther he can handle Haley.


Trust me you won't be glad we traded TG come reg season when we're giving up 7-8 sacks a game and our passing offense is non-exsistent.

I don't give a rat's ass if we are only able to throw the ball for a hundred yards a game, I am now, and will continue to be, happy that Tony is gone.

I'm sick of having a slowass TE as our #1 option in the passing game, and maybe now this team will actually make an effort to find and develop a WR, who would actually be a playmaker.

And no, Tony was not a playmaker.

R&GHomer
06-15-2009, 05:59 PM
If they aren't cutting it(which they aren't), then they need to be pushed to perform at a higher level. Haley is what this team has desperately needed. No praise, until you EARN it. I think the Chiefs could surprise a little this year.

I just wish more parents would take this approach. It's like I tell my boys. I love and care for you, but I'm not your best buddy, I'm your dad and it's my job to teach you how to succeed in this world as best I know how. Bad behavior, laziness, not doing your homework or choirs isn't going to get you what you want. Period!

They know what is expected of them and if they want a trip to the movies, a rented game, the latest gaming console, they had damn well better earn it. Just to be clear, "earning it" can mean a great many things. Bottom line is, Dad's happiness with them is directly proportional to there happiness in general... lol That's just the way that it is.

FAX
06-15-2009, 06:08 PM
I'm not sure I'd get on them about choir. Some really successful peeps were never in choir.

Ever heard Warren Buffett sing? It isn't pretty.

FAX

Halfcan
06-15-2009, 06:24 PM
I'm glad Haley is all over these guys. We have talent on this team, Haley is going to wake up the ones who have it, weed out the ones that don't, period. These guys don't need a buddy, the need a coach, and it sounds like we have that now.

Amen-excellent post! :clap:

BarrySPAMAID
06-15-2009, 07:11 PM
This team is being prepared for training camp. They will be in condition when the time comes. There are plenty of variables as to why I say they are going to win this year. I really mean that in light of the departure of Tony Gonzalez. As much as I may miss the guy, this offense is turning the page. Furthermore, most people act like Pioli wanted to make this deal. I don't believe that. Tony did not want to be a part of this organization ANY LONGER, and the sooner Chief fans come to grip with that, the better the road will look to them. This team can, and will win in 2009. There is plenty of talent, better coaching, better conditioning, better schemes, and an impossible schedule. As I have been saying on every other board, I smell Cinderella. You can write that down too while your at it.

chiefzilla1501
06-15-2009, 07:14 PM
I don't give a rat's ass if we are only able to throw the ball for a hundred yards a game, I am now, and will continue to be, happy that Tony is gone.

I'm sick of having a slowass TE as our #1 option in the passing game, and maybe now this team will actually make an effort to find and develop a WR, who would actually be a playmaker.

And no, Tony was not a playmaker.

I don't agree that Tony G wasn't a playmaker and I disagree that we couldn't have built around him. TG was a possession receiver, which is a different kind of playmaker than, say, a Torry Holt. But I believe guys like Houshmandzadeh and Keyshawn Johnson are so underrated from that standpoint.

Where I agree with you is that Tony G was a primary downfield option more than he should have been. And way too often plays were designed around throwing to him in the end zone in triple coverage. But is that really his fault? I blame the front office for bringing in lousy talent to develop during the Vermeil years and poor offensive playcalling for not finding better ways to target Bowe and make the two complement each other.

Like Vermeil, Haley likes receivers--remember that the Vermeil years were among Gonzalez's least productive years. Gonzo should have been a possesesion option to complement a playmaker. I believe Haley would have found a way to do it, and given his penchant for the spread and his love of developing receivers, he would have done it. But we'll never know now.

chiefzilla1501
06-15-2009, 07:20 PM
I just wish more parents would take this approach. It's like I tell my boys. I love and care for you, but I'm not your best buddy, I'm your dad and it's my job to teach you how to succeed in this world as best I know how. Bad behavior, laziness, not doing your homework or choirs isn't going to get you what you want. Period!

They know what is expected of them and if they want a trip to the movies, a rented game, the latest gaming console, they had damn well better earn it. Just to be clear, "earning it" can mean a great many things. Bottom line is, Dad's happiness with them is directly proportional to there happiness in general... lol That's just the way that it is.

The parenting analogy is a good one. But on the flip side, a lot of kids have gotten screwed up by overdemanding parents who were so critical of them. In some cases, you have Ivy League med school graduates who are so screwed up in their head because even that degree was never good enough to satisfy their parents. In other cases, you have super-bright people who drop out of school because they figure "if my parents are going to yell at me no matter what, what's the point in trying to please them?". So criticism without praise is just as bad as praise without criticism.

We won't know Haley's true effectiveness until 2 years from now. We'll see how much they like his disciplinary tactics when they start losing, or once the "honeymoon" of a new, exciting era fade away.

Easy 6
06-15-2009, 07:54 PM
The beatings can & will continue until morale...not to mention our record, improves.

Mash'em like they stole from ya coach.

BarrySPAMAID
06-15-2009, 08:02 PM
The beatings can & will continue until morale...not to mention our record, improves.

Mash'em like they stole from ya coach.

THIS!! Cosign!:clap::clap: And nice Avatar too!!:thumb:

SenselessChiefsFan
06-16-2009, 09:08 AM
If TG can handle Gunther he can handle Haley.


Trust me you won't be glad we traded TG come reg season when we're giving up 7-8 sacks a game and our passing offense is non-exsistent.

Gunther is nothing like Haley. Gunther never held his teams accountable nearly enough.

Additionally, that was 10 years ago when TG was still young and after Marty, not after two patty cake playing coaches.

JD10367
06-16-2009, 12:06 PM
I think it was a mistake to trade him, given that we got pretty lousy compensation in return.

:spock:

I admit it seems low for a HOF tight end with his pedigree, but... no less a source than the man himself said...

He asserts Peterson raised price late

By TOM SILVERSTEIN and GREG A. BEDARD

tsilverstein@journalsentinel.com

Posted: Oct. 15, 2008

Green Bay - The Green Bay Packers thought they had closed a deal for the Kansas City Chiefs' Tony Gonzalez just before the trading deadline, but according to the nine-time Pro Bowl selection Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson pulled out at the last second.

Two NFL sources told the Journal Sentinel Tuesday that the Packers were in the running for Gonzalez and that they were offering a third-round draft choice. Another source said Wednesday that Gonzalez had approved a trade to the Packers and was prepared to make the move.

According to two of the sources, the Packers and another team were offering the same compensation for Gonzalez, but Peterson decided at the last minute that he wanted more than a third-round pick.

In an interview with FOXSports.com Wednesday, Gonzalez said he was shocked that a deal didn't happen after talking to Peterson.

"I wanted to know if it could happen with a fourth (-round pick)," Gonzalez said. "He started talking about a second and a fifth like the (Jeremy) Shockey deal. Nobody is going to trade a second for a 32-year-old tight end. All along Carl said he would do something that works for both parties. Then he talked about how he traded a third for Willie Roaf, and he made it pretty clear to me that's what was going to get it done. That was certainly fair."

From what you guys are saying, I infer that Gonzalez was a bit of a slacking head case at times. Combined with his age, the number of seasons he's logged, and the fact that the Chiefs probably won't be winning the Super Bowl in '09 or '10, the choices seemed to be: 1) deal with the possible locker room headache and undermining of authority and high price tag in exchange for maybe 1 or 2 wins; or 2) get something of value before his skills decline. They probably could've talked someone out of, what, a 2 and a 5 maybe? Not that big of a difference IMO.

KCtotheSB
06-16-2009, 01:47 PM
Exactly, and this team was less than 50 points from 10 wins last season. Better coaching, conditioning, and leadership equals AFC west WIDE OPEN.




WE DO! A coach with a little fire, that's what I'm talking about!!


Ya, this isnt the first one out of Babb lately too. He needs a gut check.

Christ, you're here? Fucking great.

PastorMikH
06-16-2009, 02:00 PM
Great Read!

One of the longest articles to keep my attention in a long time. We may not win them all yet, but I think we'll definately be a lot tougher team.

DaneMcCloud
06-16-2009, 02:28 PM
Christ, you're here? Fucking great.

I put him on ignore last week.

Please refrain from quoting him.

:p

BarrySPAMAID
06-17-2009, 12:55 AM
Christ, you're here? ****ing great.

Well, I dont bite bro.....lol