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Direckshun
06-15-2009, 12:17 AM
One thing I've noticed on Fox News and a handful of conservative outlets is the overriding criticism that the Obama administration is betraying its desired goal of bipartisanship.

If he is, he is. I don't necessarily agree, but that's a conversation for another day. But keep in mind this is a complaint coming almost exclusively from rightwing sources who, to be generous, do not hold bipartisanship in the highest esteem anyway. A sentiment that, I've noticed, is shared by many if not most of the conservatives on this board.

A big difference I've noted between conservatives and liberals on this board is that liberals obviously prefer their ideology over conservativism, but to a man they agree that conservativism has worth and that there is a place in society for it, to one degree or another.

My overriding sense of conservatives on this board is different. Not only do they prefer their ideology over liberalism, the overriding calling card of conservatives on this board is that liberalism is faulty, dangerous, and has no place in a civil society. By all means, if I've mischaracterized how conservatives feel about liberalism in that regard, I'd be thrilled to be corrected -- but gauging from the innumerable conversations I've shared with you, that's the sense I get.

With that in mind, is bipartisanship something we should even strive for? If liberalism is so dangerous, misguided, and devoid of civility, should conservatives give a shit if liberals get a say in things or not?

Keep in mind that *I* believe in bipartisanship. But my reasons are my reasons. I'm wondering about yours. Is bipartisanship between liberals and conservatives a worthy cause or not? Assume your ideology is in charge, whatever it might be.

BucEyedPea
06-15-2009, 06:44 AM
One thing I've noticed on Fox News and a handful of conservative outlets is the overriding criticism that the Obama administration is betraying its desired goal of bipartisanship.

If he is, he is. I don't necessarily agree, but that's a conversation for another day. But keep in mind this is a complaint coming almost exclusively from rightwing sources who, to be generous, do not hold bipartisanship in the highest esteem anyway. A sentiment that, I've noticed, is shared by many if not most of the conservatives on this board.

A big difference I've noted between conservatives and liberals on this board is that liberals obviously prefer their ideology over conservativism, but to a man they agree that conservativism has worth and that there is a place in society for it, to one degree or another.

My overriding sense of conservatives on this board is different. Not only do they prefer their ideology over liberalism, the overriding calling card of conservatives on this board is that liberalism is faulty, dangerous, and has no place in a civil society. By all means, if I've mischaracterized how conservatives feel about liberalism in that regard, I'd be thrilled to be corrected -- but gauging from the innumerable conversations I've shared with you, that's the sense I get.

With that in mind, is bipartisanship something we should even strive for? If liberalism is so dangerous, misguided, and devoid of civility, should conservatives give a shit if liberals get a say in things or not?

Keep in mind that *I* believe in bipartisanship. But my reasons are my reasons. I'm wondering about yours. Is bipartisanship between liberals and conservatives a worthy cause or not? Assume your ideology is in charge, whatever it might be.

Bipartisanship is bad for this country...and any other. It just means a rubber stamp congress.

blaise
06-15-2009, 07:24 AM
One thing I've noticed on Fox News and a handful of conservative outlets is the overriding criticism that the Obama administration is betraying its desired goal of bipartisanship.

If he is, he is. I don't necessarily agree, but that's a conversation for another day. But keep in mind this is a complaint coming almost exclusively from rightwing sources who, to be generous, do not hold bipartisanship in the highest esteem anyway. A sentiment that, I've noticed, is shared by many if not most of the conservatives on this board.

A big difference I've noted between conservatives and liberals on this board is that liberals obviously prefer their ideology over conservativism, but to a man they agree that conservativism has worth and that there is a place in society for it, to one degree or another.

My overriding sense of conservatives on this board is different. Not only do they prefer their ideology over liberalism, the overriding calling card of conservatives on this board is that liberalism is faulty, dangerous, and has no place in a civil society. By all means, if I've mischaracterized how conservatives feel about liberalism in that regard, I'd be thrilled to be corrected -- but gauging from the innumerable conversations I've shared with you, that's the sense I get.
With that in mind, is bipartisanship something we should even strive for? If liberalism is so dangerous, misguided, and devoid of civility, should conservatives give a shit if liberals get a say in things or not?

Keep in mind that *I* believe in bipartisanship. But my reasons are my reasons. I'm wondering about yours. Is bipartisanship between liberals and conservatives a worthy cause or not? Assume your ideology is in charge, whatever it might be.

I believe the opposite of that.

blaise
06-15-2009, 07:30 AM
Let me rephrase that. I don't think either side does anything "to a man" I think there's equal amounts of idiots and reasonable people here on either side. I think you're painting a pollyanna picture of liberals.
I think a lot of things are exaggerated by one side when the opposite has their guy in office. There's a lot of petty criticism and hyperbolic negativity toward Obama by some people right now, but if you don't think the same thing was true when Bush was in office I thnk you're blinded by your own political beliefs.

BucEyedPea
06-15-2009, 07:32 AM
Liberals today are not classical liberals. They are illiberal. The recommend too much fascism or socialism aka facialism.
They are statists to the core.

patteeu
06-16-2009, 09:43 PM
I'm in favor of bipartisanship as long as everyone agrees with me.

Guru
06-16-2009, 10:36 PM
I'm not sure that bipartisanship can even exist in Washington as it is today.

chiefforlife
06-16-2009, 10:48 PM
I'm in favor of bipartisanship as long as everyone agrees with me.

Thats a GWB quote, No?:D

petegz28
06-16-2009, 10:57 PM
Wow....just fucking wow. The OP is such bullshit it is amazing. All the Left did was cry for 8 years about how they had no power and bla bla bla bla. Nevermind the last 2 they did though they fucked everything up as bad as Bush and the Pubs.

My overriding sense of liberals on this board is they are pulling a 180 from everything they cried about under Bush.

Both parties are fucked up. PERIOD. End of fucking story. If anyone thinks one party is better than the other right now they are on fucking crack. And the fact is the Liberals are in charge and have been for the last 2 1/2 years. And they are STILL blaming Bush for everything on a daily basis.

BEP is exactly right about modern day Libs in Congress. They are soclialistic, communistic and marxist pussies.

On the other hand the Repubs in Congress are Globalized, profit by any means, closed minded, fuck heads.


Decency is fucking beyond gone. And withoug decency we have no ethics. We have reporters calling the President "God" because he is "their guy".

On the other hand you have people who spent like idiots slamming people for doing the same albeit much worse and much faster.

chiefforlife
06-16-2009, 11:02 PM
Wow....just fucking wow. The OP is such bullshit it is amazing. All the Left did was cry for 8 years about how they had no power and bla bla bla bla. Nevermind the last 2 they did though they fucked everything up as bad as Bush and the Pubs.

My overriding sense of liberals on this board is they are pulling a 180 from everything they cried about under Bush.

Both parties are fucked up. PERIOD. End of fucking story. If anyone thinks one party is better than the other right now they are on fucking crack. And the fact is the Liberals are in charge and have been for the last 2 1/2 years. And they are STILL blaming Bush for everything on a daily basis.

BEP is exactly right about modern day Libs in Congress. They are soclialistic, communistic and marxist pussies.

On the other hand the Repubs in Congress are Globalized, profit by any means, closed minded, fuck heads.


Decency is fucking beyond gone. And withoug decency we have no ethics. We have reporters calling the President "God" because he is "their guy".

On the other hand you have people who spent like idiots slamming people for doing the same albeit much worse and much faster.

Nice post, really.:clap:

headsnap
06-16-2009, 11:27 PM
Thats a GWB quote, No?:D

Ask Ted Kennedy...

SBK
06-16-2009, 11:42 PM
Let's be honest, bipartisanship is stupid. If your principles are worth standing for what are you doing negotiating them away? We vote people into office because we agree with their stance, not because we want them to compromise and water it down.

What's hilarious about it in this case is that liberals don't see Obama is the exact same thing they railed on for the last 8 years.

FishingRod
06-17-2009, 10:29 AM
Wow....just ****ing wow. The OP is such bullshit it is amazing. All the Left did was cry for 8 years about how they had no power and bla bla bla bla. Nevermind the last 2 they did though they ****ed everything up as bad as Bush and the Pubs.

My overriding sense of liberals on this board is they are pulling a 180 from everything they cried about under Bush.

Both parties are ****ed up. PERIOD. End of ****ing story. If anyone thinks one party is better than the other right now they are on ****ing crack. And the fact is the Liberals are in charge and have been for the last 2 1/2 years. And they are STILL blaming Bush for everything on a daily basis.

BEP is exactly right about modern day Libs in Congress. They are soclialistic, communistic and marxist pussies.

On the other hand the Repubs in Congress are Globalized, profit by any means, closed minded, **** heads.


Decency is ****ing beyond gone. And withoug decency we have no ethics. We have reporters calling the President "God" because he is "their guy".

On the other hand you have people who spent like idiots slamming people for doing the same albeit much worse and much faster.


Nice post. I think both major parties have lost their way and the blame falls firmly at the feet of the 80-85% of their party members that blindly pull the Rep or Dem voting lever each and every time regardless of who that candidate is, their record, and what they stand for. We make excuses for our guys and twist innuendo and 1/2 truths about our opposition into what we believe to be cold hard facts of their transgressions. On the other hand Otto Von Bismark was probably right when he said

" Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made. "

prhom
06-17-2009, 05:59 PM
I personally dislike bipartisanship because it never seems to result in laws being written that even remotely appeal to people in the 1st (upper right) quadrant of this chart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nolan-chart.svg

I agree with petegz that neither party is the doing a good job of increasing our personal and economic freedoms. Once gone, there's not a government on earth that would willingly give back those freedoms to the people. Bipartisanship is kind of irrelevant because it hardly matters what party is in power they are both going to make bad decisions for this country.

Dick Bull
06-17-2009, 06:26 PM
Wow....just ****ing wow. The OP is such bullshit it is amazing. All the Left did was cry for 8 years about how they had no power and bla bla bla bla. Nevermind the last 2 they did though they ****ed everything up as bad as Bush and the Pubs.

My overriding sense of liberals on this board is they are pulling a 180 from everything they cried about under Bush.

Both parties are ****ed up. PERIOD. End of ****ing story. If anyone thinks one party is better than the other right now they are on ****ing crack. And the fact is the Liberals are in charge and have been for the last 2 1/2 years. And they are STILL blaming Bush for everything on a daily basis.

BEP is exactly right about modern day Libs in Congress. They are soclialistic, communistic and marxist pussies.

On the other hand the Repubs in Congress are Globalized, profit by any means, closed minded, **** heads.


Decency is ****ing beyond gone. And withoug decency we have no ethics. We have reporters calling the President "God" because he is "their guy".

On the other hand you have people who spent like idiots slamming people for doing the same albeit much worse and much faster.


This is where we differ. I don't support a party just because they are my team (ala the Chiefs) but I do support the party because it is more inline with my views.

Of course nothings perfect, but come on.

petegz28
06-17-2009, 06:29 PM
This is where we differ. I don't support a party just because they are my team (ala the Chiefs) but I do support the party because it is more inline with my views.

Of course nothings perfect, but come on.

I used to think that way until I saw the Repubs go against everything they were put in charge to do. It finally convinced me that these people just cater to a certain crowd for votes but no other reason at all.

The Party system has ruined this country, imo.

Dick Bull
06-17-2009, 06:35 PM
I used to think that way until I saw the Repubs go against everything they were put in charge to do. It finally convinced me that these people just cater to a certain crowd for votes but no other reason at all.

The Party system has ruined this country, imo.

Perhaps, but there have been parties since the beginning.

ClevelandBronco
06-17-2009, 06:36 PM
One thing I've noticed on Fox News and a handful of conservative outlets is the overriding criticism that the Obama administration is betraying its desired goal of bipartisanship.

If he is, he is. I don't necessarily agree, but that's a conversation for another day. But keep in mind this is a complaint coming almost exclusively from rightwing sources who, to be generous, do not hold bipartisanship in the highest esteem anyway. A sentiment that, I've noticed, is shared by many if not most of the conservatives on this board.

A big difference I've noted between conservatives and liberals on this board is that liberals obviously prefer their ideology over conservativism, but to a man they agree that conservativism has worth and that there is a place in society for it, to one degree or another.

My overriding sense of conservatives on this board is different. Not only do they prefer their ideology over liberalism, the overriding calling card of conservatives on this board is that liberalism is faulty, dangerous, and has no place in a civil society. By all means, if I've mischaracterized how conservatives feel about liberalism in that regard, I'd be thrilled to be corrected -- but gauging from the innumerable conversations I've shared with you, that's the sense I get.

With that in mind, is bipartisanship something we should even strive for? If liberalism is so dangerous, misguided, and devoid of civility, should conservatives give a shit if liberals get a say in things or not?

Keep in mind that *I* believe in bipartisanship. But my reasons are my reasons. I'm wondering about yours. Is bipartisanship between liberals and conservatives a worthy cause or not? Assume your ideology is in charge, whatever it might be.

I have no interest in bipartisanship. I'd rather see the country die a slow natural death.

prhom
06-17-2009, 06:47 PM
I don't know what the attitude used to be regarding parties and voting, but it is very anti-third-party at the moment (or at least last November is was). I spoke with several people who would not even think of voting for anyone besides a rep or dem. Even though people usually have a poor grasp of what the platform of the person they support really is. Has there always been such apathy towards politics and political education? I think not, and that's I feel is the real problem. You have two really bad choices and "have" to pick one.

petegz28
06-17-2009, 06:52 PM
I don't know what the attitude used to be regarding parties and voting, but it is very anti-third-party at the moment (or at least last November is was). I spoke with several people who would not even think of voting for anyone besides a rep or dem. Even though people usually have a poor grasp of what the platform of the person they support really is. Has there always been such apathy towards politics and political education? I think not, and that's I feel is the real problem. You have two really bad choices and "have" to pick one.

That is by design. The Dems and Repubs spend billions of $'s to make sure they are the only 2 parties.

ClevelandBronco
06-17-2009, 06:53 PM
I don't know what the attitude used to be regarding parties and voting, but it is very anti-third-party at the moment (or at least last November is was). I spoke with several people who would not even think of voting for anyone besides a rep or dem. Even though people usually have a poor grasp of what the platform of the person they support really is. Has there always been such apathy towards politics and political education? I think not, and that's I feel is the real problem. You have two really bad choices and "have" to pick one.

That is by design. The Dems and Repubs spend billions of $'s to make sure they are the only 2 parties.

Do you guys know anything at all about how the Electoral College works?

petegz28
06-17-2009, 06:54 PM
Do you guys know anything at all about how the Electoral College works?

Noooo...never heard of it

prhom
06-17-2009, 06:55 PM
That is by design. The Dems and Repubs spend billions of $'s to make sure they are the only 2 parties.

You mean like a monopoly? It's funny how we'll attack business that does stuff like that, but third-party candidates can't get on the ballot in some states because they aren't part of the two-party system. That's BS. I think we're on the same page about this.

Dick Bull
06-17-2009, 06:55 PM
Do you guys know anything at all about how the Electoral College works?


Isn't that the system that screwed Gore out of a 2000 presidency?

petegz28
06-17-2009, 06:58 PM
Isn't that the system that screwed Gore out of a 2000 presidency?

Screwed him? It performed as it should have. How was he screwed?

ClevelandBronco
06-17-2009, 07:00 PM
Isn't that the system that screwed Gore out of a 2000 presidency?

Not as I recall the events. What were you reading?

BucEyedPea
06-18-2009, 07:45 AM
Screwed him? It performed as it should have. How was he screwed?

Exactly