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Noss
07-02-2009, 07:58 AM
http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/cassel-vs-thigpen-%e2%80%a6-thursday-cup-o%e2%80%99chiefs.html

Cassel vs. Thigpen Ö Thursday Cup OíChiefs
July 2, 2009 - Bob Gretz |


























Matt Cassel has the edge in the competition to be the Chiefs starting quarterback for the 2009 season opener.

But that doesnít mean Tyler Thigpen will spend the Ď09 season on the bench, with a ball cap on and a clipboard.

The chances are very good that Thigpen will play at some point during the coming season. How much will depend on how productive the offense is under Cassel. When and where a change might happen is unknown.

What we do know is this: a string of incomplete passes, a couple of interceptions, any type of losing streak Ö all of those factors will increase the demand of the fans for a change from Cassel to Thigpen. Thatís a given at the quarterback position. Those factors also increase the possibility of Todd Haley pulling the trigger and making a change in the pursuit of victories.

Whatís unusual in this situation is that thereís really a very fine line between what Cassel has gotten done as an NFL starter compared to Thigpen. This isnít a veteran against a youngster. This isnít a long-time back-up going against an established starter. Cassel and Thigpen have NFL resumes that are very similar. They were both seventh round draft choices Ė Cassel in 2005 and Thigpen in 2007. Both quarterbacks got their chance because of injuries ahead of them on the depth chart.
Now Cassel had a big edge because of the talent around him, both playing and coaching, last year with New England. But Thigpen had an advantage because he at least had started and played in college, running the spread offense during his senior season at Coastal Carolina.

Hereís a look at the numbers for these two guys last year, side-by-side in different situations. In many cases the statistics show there wasnít a lot of difference between what both of these guys got done last season. The biggest difference was Casselís ability to lead his team to victories. But again, he had a huge edge in the personnel around him.

Consider all these numbers as simply more logs for the fire that will surely burn in the coming months.

THE BASICS


QB Att
Cmp
Yards
%
Yds/Att
TD
INT
Sacked
Rating

Cassel 516
327
3,693
63.4
7.16
21
11
47/219
89.4

Thigpen 420
230
2,608
54.8
6.21
18
12
26/162
76.0


Analysis: Thereís no question that Casselís overall numbers were better than Thigpen. The big edge was in completion percentage (nearly 10 percent), yards per attempt (nearly a one-yard difference) and passer rating (a 13-point advantage for Cassel.) Their numbers were similar on touchdowns and interceptions.

THE STARTS


QB Starts Rec Att Cmp Yards TD INT Sacked Rating
Cassel 15 10-5 498 314 3,541 20 11 45/203 88.5
Thigpen 11 1-10 366 206 2,344 17 9 21/112 80.6

Analysis: Thigpen narrowed the gap a bit in his starts. In fact, his numbers would be very comparable without his first start, in Atlanta, when he threw three interceptions and finished with a 23.8 passer rating. Both quarterbacks got better the more they started. It was in his ninth and tenth starts that Cassel threw for over 400 yards in both games, with a total of six TD passes and one INT.

SHOTGUN


QB Att
Cmp
Yards
%
Yds/Att
TD
INT
Sacked
Rating

Cassel 405
261
2,838
64.4
7.0
17
9
31
89.7

Thigpen 359
200
2,265
55.7
6.3
8
12
20
68.3


Analysis: These numbers are a bit of a surprise, given the fact that Thigpen spent the last half of the Ď08 season working out of the spread/shotgun offense. Cassel obviously was very comfortable working with a long snap.

UNDER CENTER


QB Att
Cmp
Yards
%
Yds/Att
TD
INT
Sacked
Rating

Cassel 111
66
855
59.5
7.7
4
2
16
88.2

Thigpen 61
30
343
49.2
5.6
10
0
6
106.1


Analysis: These numbers are not misprints. Yes, when taking the snap under center, Thigpen was a better quarterback last year than Cassel. While his completion percentage and yards per attempt were not very good, there were those 10 TD passes against no interceptions.

SACKS BY DOWN


QB 1st 2nd 3rd 4th Total
Cassel 19
9
17
2
47

Thigpen 12
4
9
1
26


Analysis: There has been a lot of discussion about Casselís status as the most sacked quarterback in the NFL last year. Watch the tapes and itís pretty apparent why: he was coached to not take any chances with the football. Bill Belichick was more willing to take a sack than a potential interception; he wanted ball protection and no turnovers. Itís also an indication that Casselís escapability skills are not those of Thigpen. The Chiefs counseled their quarterback to not take any chances throwing the ball, so when things werenít available to him, Thigpen took off running rather than stay in the pocket.

RUSHING


QB No
Yds
Avg
Long
TD

Cassel 73
270
3.7
19
2

Thigpen 62
386
6.2
32
3


Analysis: Thereís no question that when it comes time to tuck the ball and run, Thigpen is better suited to make something happen than Cassel. At the start of last season, Thigpen was too quick to take off. As the weeks went by, he got better and allowing the pass play to develop before pulling the ball down and relying on his legs. If there are problems with protection, thereís no doubt Thigpen is able to get out of the pocket.

PASSING AGAINST BLITZ


QB Att
Cmp
Yards
%
Yds/Att
TD
INT
Sacked
Rating

Cassel 161
102
1,345
63.4
8.4
2
3
18
86.1

Thigpen 104
62
761
59.6
7.3
6
2
14
93.5


Analysis: Itís a bit of a surprise that Thigpen was more accurate throwing the ball when he was facing the blitz than in any other situation. Again, that was where the spread gave him an advantage. He was also able to throw for more yards per attempt with an extra guy coming at him.

PASSING NON-BLITZ SITUATIONS


QB Att
Cmp
Yards
%
Yds/Att
TD
INT
Sacked
Rating

Cassel 355
225
2,348
63.4
6.6
19
8
29
90.9

Thigpen 316
168
1,847
53.2
5.9
12
10
12
70.2


Analysis: Without having to find that extra blitzer, Cassel was the superior passer over Thigpen, better his passing rating by more than 20 points. That was due to the 10-point difference in completion percentage between the two quarterbacks. For a first time starter, Cassel proved to be an accurate thrower.

FIRST DOWN PASSING


QB Att
Cmp
Yards
%
Yds/Att
TD
INT
Sacked
Rating

Cassel 219
123
1,389
56.2
6.3
5
5
19
73.4

Thigpen 159
84
1,095
52.8
6.9
5
6
12
69.6


SECOND DOWN PASSING


QB Att
Cmp
Yards
%
Yds/Att
TD
INT
Sacked
Rating

Cassel 170
124
1,325
72.9
7.8
6
2
9
102.2

Thigpen 144
85
878
59.0
6.1
7
1
4
90.0


THIRD DOWN PASSING


QB Att
Cmp
Yards
%
Yds/Att
TD
INT
Sacked
Rating

Cassel 121
75
929
61.9 7.7
8
3
17
97.4

Thigpen 107
57
591
53.3
5.5
5
3
9
73.4


FOURTH DOWN PASSING


QB Att
Cmp
Yards
%
Yds/Att
TD
INT
Sacked
Rating

Cassel 6
5
50
83.3
8.3
2
1
2
101.4

Thigpen 10
4
44
40.0
4.4
1
2
1
47.5


Analysis: Cassel has the edge on every down, again due to his high completion percentage. Thigpen was at his best on second and third downs, but his numbers paled in comparison to Cassel.

RED ZONE PASSING


QB Att
Cmp
Yards
%
Yds/Att
TD
INT
Sacked
Rating

Cassel 85
37
308
43.5
3.6
15
2
10
83.2

Thigpen 49
25
171
51.0
3.5
13
1
3
90.2


Analysis: When it came to throwing the ball inside the 20-yard line, Thigpen was the better quarterback. This was one area where Cassel wasnít very accurate and thatís surprising, given the fact he had Randy Moss on his side, a guy who could go up and pull the ball down in an end zone crowd.

Rausch
07-02-2009, 08:02 AM
Same offense, same play calling, let them boys throw down this preseason.

I'd love to see Thigpen elevate his game to the level he could push Croyle out of 2nd string...

BossChief
07-02-2009, 08:13 AM
A huge part of me wants Thigpen to kick Cassels ass in camp and shout "this team is mine and your not gonna march in here from your big fancy team and take it from me!"

but then I realize its only the little homer in me that believes that will happen.

Should be the best training camp since Montana though, wouldnt you guys agree?

kepp
07-02-2009, 08:15 AM
I'd love to see Thigpen elevate his game to the level he could push Croyle out of 2nd string...

Figuratively speaking, right? Otherwise Croyle would get hurt again.

Rausch
07-02-2009, 08:15 AM
Should be the best training camp since Montana though, wouldnt you guys agree?

There was no contest then and there won't be now.

But damn man, for once I feel like we've got some wicked sweet depth at QB...:):)

kepp
07-02-2009, 08:17 AM
A huge part of me wants Thigpen to kick Cassels ass in camp and shout "this team is mine and your not gonna march in here from your big fancy team and take it from me!"

but then I realize its only the little homer in me that believes that will happen.

Should be the best training camp since Montana though, wouldnt you guys agree?

There's a part of me that wants to see that too, I think. But I mostly am hoping for Cassel to be the real deal so I can finally have some faith in the Chief's mgmt, seeing that they know what they're doing.

Slainte
07-02-2009, 08:20 AM
I'd love to see Thigpen elevate his game to the level he could push Croyle out of 2nd string...


I really wouldn't mind if he pushed Mr Fragile right off the roster...

Rausch
07-02-2009, 08:20 AM
Figuratively speaking, right? Otherwise Croyle would get hurt again.

Brodie MUST stay on the team. Preferably 3rd string.

Right now my "special time" depends on it...:hump:

Slainte
07-02-2009, 08:24 AM
Brodie MUST stay on the team. Preferably 3rd string.

Right now my "special time" depends on it...:hump:

You're having sexual relations with Brokie??

/Insert Robert Morley pic here

kepp
07-02-2009, 08:36 AM
Brodie MUST stay on the team. Preferably 3rd string.

Right now my "special time" depends on it...:hump:

You're having sexual relations with Brokie??

/Insert Robert Morley pic here

I must admit...I'm not sure how to interpret that either :eek:

BigRock
07-02-2009, 08:39 AM
Some of Gretz's conclusions here are queer. He says Thigpen was the better QB under center, yet Cassel's completion rate was 10% higher and he threw for more yards per play. He actually threw for more yards per play under center than in shotgun, which Thigpen didn't.

All Thigpen has going for him is a higher QB rating under center, which is because over half his TD passes came that way. That's because they mainly lined him up under center in the redzone. That doesn't mean anything.

BigRock
07-02-2009, 08:42 AM
Also, according to those stats, Cassel's completion percentage was identical in blitz and non-blitz situations.

Eat shit, Mike Martz.

chiefzilla1501
07-02-2009, 09:50 AM
Some of Gretz's conclusions here are queer. He says Thigpen was the better QB under center, yet Cassel's completion rate was 10% higher and he threw for more yards per play. He actually threw for more yards per play under center than in shotgun, which Thigpen didn't.

All Thigpen has going for him is a higher QB rating under center, which is because over half his TD passes came that way. That's because they mainly lined him up under center in the redzone. That doesn't mean anything.

A lot of those stats are also inflated because the majority of his snaps came in that Minnesota game. As miserable as he was, he was lights out in the second half when the Chiefs had already lost the game.

Raised On Riots
07-02-2009, 11:17 AM
Damn, Gretz is really letting fly after having that 19 year foot removed from his throat!

This however is pretty retarded:

What we do know is this: a string of incomplete passes, a couple of interceptions, any type of losing streak … all of those factors will increase the demand of the fans for a change from Cassel to Thigpen. That’s a given at the quarterback position. Those factors also increase the possibility of Todd Haley pulling the trigger and making a change in the pursuit of victories.

Please; pulling Cassel for Thiggy is anathema to the TF's at home and abroad.

BigChiefFan
07-02-2009, 11:21 AM
14 million says Cassel gets the nod.

L.A. Chieffan
07-02-2009, 11:26 AM
jesus titty-fucking christ

JD10367
07-02-2009, 11:28 AM
Damn, Gretz is really letting fly after having that 19 year foot removed from his throat!

This however is pretty retarded:

What we do know is this: a string of incomplete passes, a couple of interceptions, any type of losing streak Ö all of those factors will increase the demand of the fans for a change from Cassel to Thigpen. Thatís a given at the quarterback position. Those factors also increase the possibility of Todd Haley pulling the trigger and making a change in the pursuit of victories.

Please; pulling Cassel for Thigpen is anathema to the TF's at home and abroad.

I was going to highlight this paragraph as well, specifically the "demand of the fans" part. Pioli and Haley will not give two shits what the "fans" are going to "demand", frankly. If they make a change, they'll make it based on the play on the field.

I think Cassel will be given every opportunity to succeed, and he will have a longer leash than a Thigpen might. But if he opens the season with his first three games as losses, and his numbers add up to, say, 500 yards, 2 TDs, 8 INTs, and a shitty QB rating, then obviously he's in trouble. The one-year dough they paid him is significant enough for them to make absolutely sure it's a bad investment, but once they make that determination it'll be all over for him there. That's how Pioli knows how to operate... right, Drew Bledsoe? :)

Pestilence
07-02-2009, 11:28 AM
Same offense, same play calling, let them boys throw down this preseason.

I'd love to see Thigpen elevate his game to the level he could push Croyle out of 2nd string...

Umm.....what makes you think that Croyle is the 2nd string QB right now? Croyle is fighting to make the roster at this point.

talastan
07-02-2009, 11:30 AM
14 million says Cassel gets the nod.

This.

Just Passin' By
07-02-2009, 11:36 AM
Analysis: When it came to throwing the ball inside the 20-yard line, Thigpen was the better quarterback. This was one area where Cassel wasnít very accurate and thatís surprising, given the fact he had Randy Moss on his side, a guy who could go up and pull the ball down in an end zone crowd.

It's not surprising at all to anyone who watched the games. At the beginning of the season, Cassel was absolutely terrible in the red zone. The Chargers game with 1st-and-goal was the epitome of his struggles. Of all the phases of the game that a quarterback has to learn to play, it was red zone offense that took Cassel the longest to figure out.

KCtotheSB
07-02-2009, 11:38 AM
Wow, I hadn't realized Thigpen's numbers were at least in the same ballfield as Cassel's. What worries me most about Cassel is his proneness to being sacked. Our offensive line isn't going to be All-World, so he's going to need to roll out quite a bit to keep plays alive. Being able to scramble and keep plays alive is pretty much the only category I see that Thigpen has the advantage.

Raised On Riots
07-02-2009, 11:43 AM
I was going to highlight this paragraph as well, specifically the "demand of the fans" part. Pioli and Haley will not give two shits what the "fans" are going to "demand", frankly. If they make a change, they'll make it based on the play on the field.

I think Cassel will be given every opportunity to succeed, and he will have a longer leash than a Thigpen might. But if he opens the season with his first three games as losses, and his numbers add up to, say, 500 yards, 2 TDs, 8 INTs, and a shitty QB rating, then obviously he's in trouble. The one-year dough they paid him is significant enough for them to make absolutely sure it's a bad investment, but once they make that determination it'll be all over for him there. That's how Pioli knows how to operate... right, Drew Bledsoe? :)

Awesome take.

Wow, I hadn't realized Thigpen's numbers were at least in the same ballfield as Cassel's. What worries me most about Cassel is his proneness to being sacked. Our offensive line isn't going to be All-World, so he's going to need to roll out quite a bit to keep plays alive. Being able to scramble and keep plays alive is pretty much the only category I see that Thigpen has the advantage.

Here, just fire this up when Cassel is running for his life; it'll make the whole situation much more enjoyable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnHmskwqCCQ

As an added bonus, turn to the fan next to you, and give him three quick slaps on the top of his head!!!:D

ct
07-02-2009, 12:01 PM
that

unreadable
brutal

is

JD10367
07-02-2009, 12:02 PM
Wow, I hadn't realized Thigpen's numbers were at least in the same ballfield as Cassel's. What worries me most about Cassel is his proneness to being sacked. Our offensive line isn't going to be All-World, so he's going to need to roll out quite a bit to keep plays alive. Being able to scramble and keep plays alive is pretty much the only category I see that Thigpen has the advantage.

Cassel led the league with 47. Roethlisberger was one behind at 46. :shrug: And Cassel had a better completion percentage, more yards, more touchdowns, less interceptions, a higher quarterback rating, a higher average yardage per throw, and more throws for first downs.

I'm not saying Cassel is better than Roethlisberger; I'm just saying, stats can be misleading.

You have to remember, you're talking about an unheralded benchwarmer who was suddenly called into action to lead a Super-Bowl-contending team and replace a legend.

Also, if you notice the way he trended:

KC: 2
@ NYJ: 4
MIA: 4
@SF: 5
@SD: 4
DEN: 6
STL: 3
@IND: 0
BUF: 1
NYJ: 3
@MIA: 2
PIT: 5
@SEA: 3
@OAK: 3
ARI: 1
@BUF: 1

He took 28 sacks in the first 7 games. In the final 9, he had 19, including a goose-egg at Indy, which is pretty good. If you remove the Pittsburgh 5-sacker from the equation--and, let's remember, that was a strong-D team that eventually won the Super Bowl--in 8 of the last 9 games he totaled 14 sacks.

As the season went on, he got much more comfortable in the pocket, and started feeling the pressure and moving around some. And he's got some athleticism, so I don't think he'll have a problem unless your O-line sucks so bad they're "Ole!" blocking and he's getting blindsided constantly...

ct
07-02-2009, 12:05 PM
Cassel led the league with 47. Roethlisberger was one behind at 46. :shrug: And Cassel had a better completion percentage, more yards, more touchdowns, less interceptions, a higher quarterback rating, a higher average yardage per throw, and more throws for first downs.

I'm not saying Cassel is better than Roethlisberger; I'm just saying, stats can be misleading.

You have to remember, you're talking about an unheralded benchwarmer who was suddenly called into action to lead a Super-Bowl-contending team and replace a legend.

Also, if you notice the way he trended:

KC: 2
@ NYJ: 4
MIA: 4
@SF: 5
@SD: 4
DEN: 6
STL: 3
@IND: 0
BUF: 1
NYJ: 3
@MIA: 2
PIT: 5
@SEA: 3
@OAK: 3
ARI: 1
@BUF: 1

He took 28 sacks in the first 7 games. In the final 9, he had 19, including a goose-egg at Indy, which is pretty good. If you remove the Pittsburgh 5-sacker from the equation--and, let's remember, that was a strong-D team that eventually won the Super Bowl--in 8 of the last 9 games he totaled 14 sacks.

As the season went on, he got much more comfortable in the pocket, and started feeling the pressure and moving around some. And he's got some athleticism, so I don't think he'll have a problem unless your O-line sucks so bad they're "Ole!" blocking and he's getting blindsided constantly...

excellent! :clap:

BigChiefFan
07-02-2009, 12:09 PM
Our offensive line isn't as bad as some make it out to be. We have Branden Albert, who looks to be a legit LT, with tremendous upside. We have a perenial PBer at LG, Niswanger has a year under his belt and should be improved( Wade Smith is a pretty decent center just in case). Goff is an upgrade at RG and McIntosh should play better without having to compensate for Jones. We won't be all-world, but I expect us to be improved on the O-line.

talastan
07-02-2009, 01:19 PM
One thing that Cassel has over Thigpen is the leadership quality IMO. With his commitment to the offseason program, and the fact that unlike Thigpen, he led his team to wins; I'm more than willing to give the reins of the offense to Cassel.

Micjones
07-02-2009, 01:28 PM
Umm.....what makes you think that Croyle is the 2nd string QB right now? Croyle is fighting to make the roster at this point.

Exactly. How in God's name is he penciled in as the backup?
He lost that job last year.

Reaper16
07-02-2009, 01:47 PM
If Cassel isn't good enough to keep Thigpen out of the starting position then Pioli should be immediately fired. On the fucking spot.

Another way of typing this post would have been "There is no way in Hell that Thigpen is going to get playing time over a healthy Cassel."

Raised On Riots
07-02-2009, 01:50 PM
If Cassel isn't good enough to keep Thigpen out of the starting position then Pioli should be immediately fired. On the fucking spot.

Another way of typing this post would have been "There is no way in Hell that Thigpen is going to get playing time over a healthy Cassel."

ROFL

Tribal Warfare
07-02-2009, 01:52 PM
If Cassel isn't good enough to keep Thigpen out of the starting position then Pioli should be immediately fired. On the fucking spot.

Another way of typing this post would have been "There is no way in Hell that Thigpen is going to get playing time over a healthy Cassel."

I concur

Micjones
07-02-2009, 01:55 PM
Thigpen should still be used in this offense (even with Cassel as the rightful starter).
He can be a weapon.

Mr. Krab
07-02-2009, 01:57 PM
I bet this thread goes 100+.

Raised On Riots
07-02-2009, 01:58 PM
Thigpen should still be used in this offense (even with Cassel as the rightful starter).
He can be a weapon.

Tight End?:D

Buehler445
07-02-2009, 01:58 PM
Thigpen should still be used in this offense (even with Cassel as the rightful starter).
He can be a weapon.

Yeah, some trick play/wildcat packages could be effective.
Posted via Mobile Device

Micjones
07-02-2009, 01:58 PM
Tight End?:D

Not exactly.

But I'm sure on some Wildcat, gimmick type plays.

Micjones
07-02-2009, 01:59 PM
Yeah, some trick play/wildcat packages could be effective.
Posted via Mobile Device

I think so.
Like that Thigpen/Bradley play that scored the TD in the Bucs game.

Buehler445
07-02-2009, 02:06 PM
I think so.
Like that Thigpen/Bradley play that scored the TD in the Bucs game.

That was a damn good playcall. I laughed hysteically at Ronde Barber for getting flat smoked by a QB.
Posted via Mobile Device

Raised On Riots
07-02-2009, 02:10 PM
Not exactly.

But I'm sure on some Wildcat, gimmick type plays.

Are you seriously saying to me that at some point in a game Cassel should be taken out, and Thigpen put on the field to run some wacky subterfuge play?

Is this what I'm hearing?

Reaper16
07-02-2009, 02:13 PM
Are you seriously saying to me that at some point in a game Cassel should be taken out, and Thigpen put on the field to run some wacky subterfuge play?

Is this what I'm hearing?
I can def. see a Wildcat package. That's not subterfuge nor a gimmick. Thigpen would be a tremendous Wildcat passer compared to the stable of runningbacks that other teams use in the wildcat.

Buehler445
07-02-2009, 02:15 PM
Are you seriously saying to me that at some point in a game Cassel should be taken out, and Thigpen put on the field to run some wacky subterfuge play?

Is this what I'm hearing?

Not necessarily. Cassel could lateral a pass to Thiggy who throws it downfield, or Thiggy lines up showing Wildcat and does the same to Cassel split wide.

Trick plays/gimmicks can be effective, but you can't use them as a base play.
Posted via Mobile Device

Buehler445
07-02-2009, 02:16 PM
I can def. see a Wildcat package. That's not subterfuge nor a gimmick. Thigpen would be a tremendous Wildcat passer compared to the stable of runningbacks that other teams use in the wildcat.

Yep. IIRC, even the might Pats played some Wildcat after they got fucking abused by it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Raised On Riots
07-02-2009, 02:31 PM
Not necessarily. Cassel could lateral a pass to Thiggy who throws it downfield, or Thiggy lines up showing Wildcat and does the same to Cassel split wide.

Trick plays/gimmicks can be effective, but you can't use them as a base play.
Posted via Mobile Device

Okay, once again to the main point:

TWO Quarterbacks on the field? :D

I see where you're going, but this is seriously making me laugh and laugh hard at my desk right now!ROFL

Reaper16
07-02-2009, 02:33 PM
Yeah, the 2 QBs on the field at once thing is probably not worth exploring.

bringbackmarty
07-02-2009, 02:34 PM
Are you seriously saying to me that at some point in a game Cassel should be taken out, and Thigpen put on the field to run some wacky subterfuge play?

Is this what I'm hearing?

Did we not learn anything from the Haggans debacle. Put him in the spread as a Qb, well that's just stupid, like Cassel needs that shit on his head when he's trying to make chicken salad. When you put him in @ wideout, unless you do it 10 times a game and hope somebody on their team fucks up, or falls down, they will cover him now. Have him run a reverse to throw the pass? Hell no, they would jam his ass all the way across I-70. He would never get to the handoff in time. He's fast, but not like Eddie Kennison was, or Bradley is. Same thing with putting him at TE. Vrabel will be too busy hogging that shit anyways.

The wildcat TD was a one time deal folks, like the louie aguiar fake punt, We wont be seeing thigpen hauling in 40 yd touchdown passes flung by wide recievers anymore. I can't really think of another play like it, and I guess that's why. It's nothing to base an offense around.

bringbackmarty
07-02-2009, 02:36 PM
And haley won't yank cassel just for a package or two a game. You are fucking with your starters head in the first season doing that. If he was Tomzac it would be different, but he is the franchise QB folks.

Raised On Riots
07-02-2009, 02:40 PM
And haley won't yank cassel just for a package or two a game. You are fucking with your starters head in the first season doing that. If he was Tomzac it would be different, but he is the franchise QB folks.

I agree with the Fuhrer.:D

bringbackmarty
07-02-2009, 02:41 PM
fat lot of good the freaking wildcat did us anyways, we pissed away a goddamned 3 touchdown lead at the half.

We need to effectively run the ball, and play a little bit of something resembling defense. That's the problem with this team.

Buehler445
07-02-2009, 02:51 PM
fat lot of good the freaking wildcat did us anyways, we pissed away a goddamned 3 touchdown lead at the half.

We need to effectively run the ball, and play a little bit of something resembling defense. That's the problem with this team.

I don't disagree with you at all, and I don't condone basing a defense on a gimick. But an occasional gimmick can make a big play.

This team needs ALL the big plays it can get. Because we haven't added any big playmakers other than Cassel (hopefully) and the defense probably isn't going to be worth much this year. As far as knowing it's coming, everyone knew Miami was going to do some Wildcat, but they still got a lot of mileage out of it. If gameplanned, called, and executed well, it can be effective, just like any other play in the book.

In terms of not fucking with a QBs head, tell his bitch ass he's the starter and he needs to go out and produce victories. Throw in Thiggy for a play or two shouldn't FUBAR his mojo. If it does, he sucks or the coach did a bad job of prepping him. Chad Pennington isn't (or shouldn't be) the model of confidence and he didn't have a problem.
Posted via Mobile Device

Just Passin' By
07-02-2009, 03:09 PM
I don't disagree with you at all, and I don't condone basing a defense on a gimick. But an occasional gimmick can make a big play.

This team needs ALL the big plays it can get. Because we haven't added any big playmakers other than Cassel (hopefully) and the defense probably isn't going to be worth much this year. As far as knowing it's coming, everyone knew Miami was going to do some Wildcat, but they still got a lot of mileage out of it. If gameplanned, called, and executed well, it can be effective, just like any other play in the book.

In terms of not ****ing with a QBs head, tell his bitch ass he's the starter and he needs to go out and produce victories. Throw in Thigpen for a play or two shouldn't FUBAR his mojo. If it does, he sucks or the coach did a bad job of prepping him. Chad Pennington isn't (or shouldn't be) the model of confidence and he didn't have a problem.
Posted via Mobile Device

The "wildcat" was run with Pennington on the field.

orange
07-02-2009, 04:44 PM
Thigpen should still be used in this offense (even with Cassel as the rightful starter).
He can be a weapon.

Tight End?:D

Not exactly. Thigpen as QB, Cassel as Tight End. Cassel has more college experience at that position than QB.

Raised On Riots
07-02-2009, 04:55 PM
Not exactly. Thigpen as QB, Cassel as Tight End. Cassel has more college experience at that position than QB.

LMAO

Look at this! Look at how fucked up this board has made me! http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv252/raisedonriots/avatar7293_21-1.jpg

Laughing at Donk-Fan jokes about my own team; why I oughtta...:cuss:

JASONSAUTO
07-02-2009, 05:31 PM
LMAO

Look at this! Look at how fucked up this board has made me! http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv252/raisedonriots/avatar7293_21-1.jpg

Laughing at Donk-Fan jokes about my own team; why I oughtta...:cuss:

who made a joke about the jets?

Halfcan
07-02-2009, 05:53 PM
Matt will be the starter barring injury-end of story-period-thats all she wrote-print em!

OnTheWarpath58
07-02-2009, 05:53 PM
I like how Gretz completely avoided the quarter-by-quarter stats, as to not submarine his entire premise that Thigpen has ANY chance of unseating Cassel.

Thigpen's play got progressively worse as the game went on, to the point that he was all but worthless in the 2nd half of games, leading to the defense being on the field the entire half, and giving up the leads we had built.

I'm getting ready to head out to dinner, but I'd love to see someone come up with the quarter by quarter stats for these two.

I remember that Thigpen's completion percentage dropped 20% from the 1st quarter to the 4th, and his QB rating dropped somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 points in the same timeframe.

I highly doubt that was the case for Cassel.

T-post Tom
07-02-2009, 05:56 PM
Yeah, the 2 QBs on the field at once thing is probably not worth exploring.


Not so fast.... give 'Vanilla Slash' his due...he's got skillz, bro. That said, I hope Cassel proves to be our long awaited 'franchise' qb.

orange
07-02-2009, 06:05 PM
I like how Gretz completely avoided the quarter-by-quarter stats, as to not submarine his entire premise that Thigpen has ANY chance of unseating Cassel.

Thigpen's play got progressively worse as the game went on, to the point that he was all but worthless in the 2nd half of games, leading to the defense being on the field the entire half, and giving up the leads we had built.

I'm getting ready to head out to dinner, but I'd love to see someone come up with the quarter by quarter stats for these two.

I remember that Thigpen's completion percentage dropped 20% from the 1st quarter to the 4th, and his QB rating dropped somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 points in the same timeframe.

I highly doubt that was the case for Cassel.


True, but by the same token, I doubt that Cassel can even come close to Thigpen's first half stats.

The answer is obvious.

Thigpen starts, Cassel closes.


http://www.scc.net/~heather/quiz1.jpg

Marcellus
07-02-2009, 06:35 PM
Same offense, same play calling, let them boys throw down this preseason.

I'd love to see Thigpen elevate his game to the level he could push Croyle out of 2nd string...

Have I missed something somewhere? :shake:

Mr. Krab
07-02-2009, 06:46 PM
Thigpen > Cassel

KCUnited
07-02-2009, 06:52 PM
If Thigpen lines up in the Wildcat, isn't that called the "shotgun" at the pro level?

Tiger's Fan
07-02-2009, 07:14 PM
who made a joke about the jets?

ROFL

Hydrae
07-02-2009, 07:37 PM
Matt will be the starter barring injury-end of story-period-thats all she wrote-print em!

To the boat!



Can someone explain this saying to me? I feel like I have been left out of the cool kid club because I don't know the meaning of this "to the boat" thing.

Count Alex's Wins
07-02-2009, 07:45 PM
If Thigpen lines up in the Wildcat, isn't that called the "shotgun" at the pro level?

Jesus. No.

Count Alex's Wins
07-02-2009, 07:47 PM
I like how Gretz completely avoided the quarter-by-quarter stats, as to not submarine his entire premise that Thigpen has ANY chance of unseating Cassel.

Thigpen's play got progressively worse as the game went on, to the point that he was all but worthless in the 2nd half of games, leading to the defense being on the field the entire half, and giving up the leads we had built.

I'm getting ready to head out to dinner, but I'd love to see someone come up with the quarter by quarter stats for these two.

I remember that Thigpen's completion percentage dropped 20% from the 1st quarter to the 4th, and his QB rating dropped somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 points in the same timeframe.

I highly doubt that was the case for Cassel.

I posted this yesterday:

Guess who had the second-lowest completion percentage in the NFL last year when the game was within 7 points in the fourth quarter? Clocking in at a terrible 50 percent...

http://bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0125/8765/tyler_thigpen_feature.jpg

And guess who tied for the fourth-lowest yards-per-attempt average in the NFL last year when the game was within 7 points in the fourth quarter? Clocking in at 5.1 yards per pass....

http://cdn.picapp.com/ftp/Images/4/b/4/2/1c.jpg

Forget the deep ball. Thigpen is a flat out CHOKE ARTIST.

Cassel was 58.3% and 6.5 YPA.

Not great, but not terrible.

Raised On Riots
07-02-2009, 08:32 PM
Jesus. No.

That sounds like the perfect name for this years Offensive Scheme.ROFL

Count Alex's Wins
07-02-2009, 08:37 PM
That sounds like the perfect name for this years Offensive Scheme.ROFL

Would you stop this shit? No one knows what this year's offensive scheme is going to look like. But it's certainly not going to be the retarded crap we ran last year.

Raised On Riots
07-02-2009, 08:52 PM
Would you stop this shit? No one knows what this year's offensive scheme is going to look like. But it's certainly not going to be the retarded crap we ran last year.

:deevee:

Mr. Krab
07-02-2009, 09:26 PM
You mean an undrafted rookie QB, in his first real season of NFL play, had his sphincter tighten up when the game was close and didn't perform well?

Gasp, someone call Dr. Phil.

Raised On Riots
07-02-2009, 09:39 PM
SCORE!ROFL

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/deadspin/2008/11/20081124tyler.jpg


WINNER = ROR!ROFL

Count Alex's Wins
07-02-2009, 09:44 PM
You mean an undrafted rookie QB, in his first real season of NFL play, had his sphincter tighten up when the game was close and didn't perform well?

Gasp, someone call Dr. Phil.

I don't think it's that he didn't perform well.

It's that he was just about the worst quarterback in the LEAGUE. And he was not lacking for weapons.

Raised On Riots
07-02-2009, 09:53 PM
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv252/raisedonriots/tyler-thigpen-and-skeleton.jpg

BossChief
07-03-2009, 05:52 AM
I like how Gretz completely avoided the quarter-by-quarter stats, as to not submarine his entire premise that Thigpen has ANY chance of unseating Cassel.

Thigpen's play got progressively worse as the game went on, to the point that he was all but worthless in the 2nd half of games, leading to the defense being on the field the entire half, and giving up the leads we had built.

I'm getting ready to head out to dinner, but I'd love to see someone come up with the quarter by quarter stats for these two.

I remember that Thigpen's completion percentage dropped 20% from the 1st quarter to the 4th, and his QB rating dropped somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 points in the same timeframe.

I highly doubt that was the case for Cassel.

Thigpen is far from accurate but, take into consideration a couple things:

1) we were installing the offense week to week, therefore had few plays to work with.
2) We had a head coach that is immune to making in game adjustments
3) We had limited options in the passing game, once teams made their adjustments to Tony and Dwayne, we had little to work with. This was compounded when Bradley went down and we were left without a competant #2 reciever AGAIN.

We needed to add another option to the passing game for this very reason and it will hurt not having Tony G. Many underestimate Engrams ability to produce out of the slot, but I hope Haley has some tricks up his sleeve if/when Bradley goes down the next time if we dont bolster tye roster with another proven recieving option.

I still feel we NEED a Marvin Harrison type to round out our recieving core and lessen the loss of Tony, Cassel will need options when the heat goes up if he is to stay upright.