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Joe Seahawk
07-06-2009, 08:55 PM
What a plane


FIRST FA-22 FIGHTERS DELIVERED
TO LANGLEY AIR FORCE BASE.

These are Great In-flight Photos
Of the FA-22 as the first Aircraft
Delivery was being made to Langley
AFB in Va. Langley is to be first
Operational AFB for the FA-22. It is
A very beautiful AFB, located in a
Picturesque location, as you can see
In these photos, near Norfolk and
Hampton, Va.

The Aircraft flying along with the
FA-22 in the last of these photos is
The F-15, which will be replaced by
The FA-22 which is several times
Better.

In Actual In-flight (simulated)
Combat Operations against the F-15,
Two FA-22s were able to operate
Without detection while they went
Head to head against (8) F-15s. The
FA-22s scored Missile Hits (Kills)
Against all the F-15 Aircraft and the
F/A-22s were never detected by
Either the F-15s or Ground Based
Radar. Maj. Gen. Rick Lewis said:
'The Raptor Operated Against All
Adversaries with Virtual Impunity;
Ground Based Systems Couldn't
Engage and NO Adversary Aircraft
Survived'!

FA-22 -- America 's Most Advanced
Fighter Aircraft for the 21st Century!
They're a titanium and carbon fiber
Dagger. They're so advanced that if
Their on-board locator is switched off
Even our own satellites can lose track
Of them. They're the first military
Aircraft ever built that is equipped
With a 'black-out button'. What that
Means is this:
The best conditioned fighter pilots are
Capable of maintaining consciousness
Up to in the vicinity of 15+ G. The
Raptor is capable of making 22+ G
Turns. If someday an adversary builds
A missile that is capable of catching
Up to one of these airplanes and a
Raptor pilot sees that a strike is
Imminent, he hits the 'b.o.b.' and the
Airplane makes a virtual U-turn,
Leaving the missile to pass right on by.

They know that in the process he will
Temporarily lose consciousness, so the
Raptor then automatically comes back
To straight and level flight until he
Wakes back up.

Dayze
07-06-2009, 09:12 PM
Definitely an awesome airacft; great sealth ability (love watching AA missiles fired out of the compartment bay);

This, the F18 super hornet, F15E Eagle and SU 27s are awesome aircraft.

Dayze
07-06-2009, 09:15 PM
I also like the old MiG 21 Fishbeds too for some reason.


what can I saw I'm a cold war fan.

Bwana
07-06-2009, 09:29 PM
Hi North Korea, say hello to my little friend. BOOM!

petegz28
07-06-2009, 09:30 PM
Don't get too attached to them...

Congress is moving forward with plans to fund the construction of additional Lockheed Martin F-22 fighter jets, even though the Obama administration has said the president would veto such a move.

A Senate panel on Thursday approved $1.75 billion to build seven more F-22s and the House of Representatives voted in favor of a Defense Department funding bill that would allocate more funds for the planes, the New York Times reported. Both chambers are also asking for a report from the administration on possibly exporting the planes to Japan and other allies.

On Wednesday, the Obama administration made it clear it opposes the extra funding. The Office of Management and Budget said the funding for more F-22 fighters runs counter to the "collective judgment" of the military's top leaders. Defense Secretary Robert Gates has said production of the jets should stop after 187 have been built. Last week, he called the funding boost a "big problem." He said the jet does not fit well into 21st century warfare.

Both the Senate and the House have also approved the development of an alternative engine for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, another program that the White House wants to get rid of.

While some politicians have argued the jets are necessary for national security, some also say reducing their production would result in more jobs lost, especially in Georgia, where the planes are produced. According to Republicans on the House Armed Services Committee, there are 95,000 jobs directly or indirectly tied to F-22 production, the Associated Press reports.

"It is regrettable that the administration needs to issue a veto threat for funding intended to meet a real national security requirement that has been consistently confirmed by our uniformed military leaders," Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.) said in a statement.

Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and ranking member John McCain (R-Ariz.), who both voted against the funding, said Congress will ultimately side with the administration because of the high regard for Gates' opinion, according to the Hill.


They need the extra $'s to build cars no one wants to buy at Government Motors. Our national defense can wait.

KcFanInGA
07-06-2009, 09:34 PM
I hope they keep building these, Lockheed Martin is a huge employer in Ga and they build these bad mama jama's. Lot of jobs up in the air on this deal. Nice pics though. I want to see the look on Kim Jong Il's little scrotum like face when these babys drop in over his swimming pool.

petegz28
07-06-2009, 09:41 PM
I hope they keep building these, Lockheed Martin is a huge employer in Ga and they build these bad mama jama's. Lot of jobs up in the air on this deal. Nice pics though. I want to see the look on Kim Jong Il's little scrotum like face when these babys drop in over his swimming pool.

Dude, these things are so cool.....they can tie into AWACS and JSTARS and I believe other fighters' radar systems thus letting them run totally "quiet", target the enemy, fire their missles and bail without ever turning on their radar....

They have an automatic threat system that determines the most immdiate threats...if you have say 5 bogies, the computer determines the order of the threats...you fire off 5 missles, missles are "fire and forget", and bail out...

a stategy I read about with them was you would have a squadron of F-15's flying decoy...enemy lights them up on radar...F-22 taps into the F-15 or AWACS\JSTARS radar...takes out the bogies that are targeting the F-15's and they are never even seen...

They are ****ing sick.....plus they have directional thrust which literaly allows them to stop on a dime and turn the plane around almost like a helicopter. Though the Russians still have a better directional thrust system.

alanm
07-06-2009, 09:41 PM
Chairman Zero told the defense department to put the kibosh on future orders of the Raptor.
He needs the money for the next worthless project in the pipeline. :spock:

KcMizzou
07-06-2009, 09:44 PM
Dude, these things are so wack.....they can tie into AWACS and JSTARS and I believe other fighters' radar systems thus letting them run totally "quiet", target the enemy, fire their missles and bail without ever turning on their radar....

They have an automatic threat system that determines the most immdiate threats...if you have say 5 bogies, the computer determines the order of the threats...you fire off 5 missles, missles are "fire and forget", and bail out...

a stategy I read about with them was you would have a squadron of F-15's flying decoy...enemy lights them up on radar...F-22 taps into the F-15 or AWACS\JSTARS radar...takes out the bogies that are targeting the F-15's and they are never even seen...

They are ****ing sick.....plus they have directional thrust which literaly allows them to stop on a dime and turn the play around almost like a helicopter. Though the Russians still have a better directional thrust system.Erroneous use of slang. Fifteen yard penalty. Repeat the down.

petegz28
07-06-2009, 09:46 PM
Erroneous use of slang. Fifteen yard penalty. Repeat the down.

meh...my bad

Post edited

Bwana
07-06-2009, 09:47 PM
Chairman Zero told the defense department to put the kibosh on future orders of the Raptor.
He needs the money for the next worthless project in the pipeline. :spock:

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeah, there is no doubt another crap bag bank is going to be bailed out in the near future. :shake:

CHENZ A!
07-06-2009, 09:48 PM
Erroneous use of slang. Fifteen yard penalty. Repeat the down.

heh I was reading his post like wait these things you're mentioning are all cool sounding to me.

Valiant
07-06-2009, 09:54 PM
Yeah Obama is on crack... Those things can take out most traditional forces.. Personally I want to see a new version of the A-10

KcMizzou
07-06-2009, 09:57 PM
Yeah Obama is on crack... Those things can take out most traditional forces.. Personally I want to see a new version of the A-10Always been one of my favorites. Long live the warthog.

Saul Good
07-06-2009, 09:58 PM
meh...my bad

Post edited

Stick with what you know, Pete. You could have gone with: hip, far out, groovy, or neato.

Braincase
07-06-2009, 10:01 PM
The funny thing is that based on research done since these were conceived, they are already out of date.

Personally, I want to see what's cutting edge today, but we won't find out about that for 20 years.

Think about it... the SR-71 Blackbird, whose ceiling and top speed are STILL classified was designed in 1958! I want to know what's top of the line, using the latest and greatest. It's gotta be so cool that words can't describe it (including the non-word 'wack').

Demonpenz
07-06-2009, 10:01 PM
spend 22 billion dollars but can't find dudes in Afghanistan

petegz28
07-06-2009, 10:01 PM
Stick with what you know, Pete. You could have gone with: hip, far out, groovy, or neato.

I resorted to the trusty goal line play...."cool"

petegz28
07-06-2009, 10:04 PM
spend 22 billion dollars but can't find dudes in Afghanistan

Cause they aren't there...

petegz28
07-06-2009, 10:05 PM
The funny thing is that based on research done since these were conceived, they are already out of date.

Personally, I want to see what's cutting edge today, but we won't find out about that for 20 years.

Think about it... the SR-71 Blackbird, whose ceiling and top speed are STILL classified was designed in 1958! I want to know what's top of the line, using the latest and greatest. It's gotta be so cool that words can't describe it (including the non-word 'wack').

Cutting edge is the UF-22....U for Unmanned

KcMizzou
07-06-2009, 10:06 PM
I resorted to the trusty goal line play...."cool""Cool" will always be cool.

However, "Chillax" will always be "wack".

:D

Demonpenz
07-06-2009, 10:07 PM
The funny thing is that based on research done since these were conceived, they are already out of date.

Personally, I want to see what's cutting edge today, but we won't find out about that for 20 years.

Think about it... the SR-71 Blackbird, whose ceiling and top speed are STILL classified was designed in 1958! I want to know what's top of the line, using the latest and greatest. It's gotta be so cool that words can't describe it (including the non-word 'wack').

like the aurora?

petegz28
07-06-2009, 10:08 PM
"Cool" will always be cool.

However, "Chillax" will always be "wack".

:D

I was going for the sarcasm of it...but it was not a good choice

Dayze
07-06-2009, 10:14 PM
typcially things aren't brought to the public light until the government wants to use them.

I rembmer being at nellis AFB for Operation Red Flag in 1997; and seeing a pedestal of a F111 fighter; . I can't recal the exactly specifics, but I remember seeing a plaque on beneath a F111 on a pedastal that read the innaugural flight was in 1978 or something crazy; and we didn't even hear about the B2 or F111 until the Gulf War when we wanted to try out our new toys. I was in Navy intel an it was a surprise to me.

I believe there is some SERIOUS firepower/avionics/stealth in production that we simply haven't heard about yet. They'll let us know 10 years after it's been deployed.

F22 is a Bad, Bad, machine. In a good way.

Valiant
07-06-2009, 10:38 PM
typcially things aren't brought to the public light until the government wants to use them.

I rembmer being at nellis AFB for Operation Red Flag in 1997; and seeing a pedestal of a F111 fighter; . I can't recal the exactly specifics, but I remember seeing a plaque on beneath a F111 on a pedastal that read the innaugural flight was in 1978 or something crazy; and we didn't even hear about the B2 or F111 until the Gulf War when we wanted to try out our new toys. I was in Navy intel an it was a surprise to me.

I believe there is some SERIOUS firepower/avionics/stealth in production that we simply haven't heard about yet. They'll let us know 10 years after it's been deployed.

F22 is a Bad, Bad, machine. In a good way.

Most of the tech we use now was developed decades ago.. Just think what is on their drawing board now..

Dayze
07-06-2009, 10:40 PM
Most of the tech we use now was developed decades ago.. Just think what is on their drawing board now..

Exactly. Which gives me a 'tingly' feeling in the 'nether regions".

:D

chefsos
07-06-2009, 10:54 PM
Always been one of my favorites. Long live the warthog.

Indeed. Badass fuckin' airplane.

JOhn
07-06-2009, 11:33 PM
typcially things aren't brought to the public light until the government wants to use them.

I rembmer being at nellis AFB for Operation Red Flag in 1997; and seeing a pedestal of a F111 fighter; . I can't recal the exactly specifics, but I remember seeing a plaque on beneath a F111 on a pedastal that read the innaugural flight was in 1978 or something crazy; and we didn't even hear about the B2 or F111 until the Gulf War when we wanted to try out our new toys. I was in Navy intel an it was a surprise to me.

I believe there is some SERIOUS firepower/avionics/stealth in production that we simply haven't heard about yet. They'll let us know 10 years after it's been deployed.

F22 is a Bad, Bad, machine. In a good way.

Think you might have your plans & time lines mixed up. The F-111 was used as far back as the bombing of Libya, and was very mush in the news then. If your thinking of the F-117, it was first used in the Panama invasion, and was public before then.

stlchiefs
07-06-2009, 11:37 PM
goosebumps on the neck here. Awesome power.

alanm
07-06-2009, 11:39 PM
Think you might have your plans & time lines mixed up. The F-111 was used as far back as the bombing of Libya, and was very mush in the news then. If your thinking of the F-117, it was first used in the Panama invasion, and was public before then.That's what I was thinking as well. The F-111 came out in the late 60's and was retired in the late 90's.

Dayze
07-06-2009, 11:41 PM
Think you might have your plans & time lines mixed up. The F-111 was used as far back as the bombing of Libya, and was very mush in the news then. If your thinking of the F-117, it was first used in the Panama invasion, and was public before then.

Correct. F117 i s what I meant.

I think the F111 was the starfighter (without looking it up)...



:thumb:

DJ's left nut
07-06-2009, 11:51 PM
In all fairness, as much as I dislike Obama, he's right here.

It's not like we have 12 of these things. We have nearly 200 and to this point there's nothing in the world that can hang with our F-15's and F-18s, let alone the F-22. The Chengdu J-10 is not battle tested, it's evidently pretty buggy and it's still right at about the level of the Hornets or even the F-16. In other words, our 4th string fighter, essentially the Ford Focus of fighter aircraft, is considered roughly on par with the best China has to offer.

The Mig-35 hasn't shown anything yet and appears to be reverse engineered from an F-15. The SU-27 (and J-11) are good aircraft but again, nothing better than the F-18. The Sukhoi PAK FA is a direct competitor to the F-22 but they've been 'unveiling' that thing for 3 years now, who knows if it will ever actually be mass produced?

If we were ever in a situation where full-scale war erupted and we needed an true air-superiority fighter, we'll be just fine with the ones we have while we replenish. And none of that even considers possible F-35 production/use (aren't we building a couple thousand of those as well?). We have plenty of fighters.

I'm inclined to agree; we don't need anymore of them. Granted, given the choice between building 17 of these and dumping another billion into vote-buying....er....urban renewal projects, I'd much rather have te Raptors. That said, we could find far better things to spend the money on even within the national defense realm.

Chaunceythe3rd
07-07-2009, 12:09 AM
Yeah Obama is on crack... Those things can take out most traditional forces.. Personally I want to see a new version of the A-10

Yeah, the Wart Hog and the F-4 Phantom, too. If they could make a new version of the Phantom with anywhere near the performance of 15's, 18's or the 22's just the sight of that drop-winged, needle-nosed, shoe-box son of a bitch would be a deterrent as good as any of the little Korean guy's junk missiles. Better yet, one of the Phantoms screaming in to take out the missile sites. Accompanied, of course, be a Phantom Wild Weasel anti electronic warfare radar jammer.

Never happen though but it's fun to think about.

ChiefJustice
07-07-2009, 12:26 AM
Yeah Obama is on crack... Those things can take out most traditional forces.. Personally I want to see a new version of the A-10


The A-10 is getting ready to have complete refits with added radar and computer systems.

Like the B-52,the A-10 is a design that is just really good at what it does.
No point in making a new one if the old one can be updated for a minimal cost.

Discuss Thrower
07-07-2009, 01:15 AM
Correct. F117 i s what I meant.

I think the F111 was the starfighter (without looking it up)...



:thumb:
F-117 was first used in the US military's intervention in Panama.

The F-111 was the "Aardvark" fighter-bomber... Either that or the same thing as the British "Tornado" fighter-bomber.

Rausch
07-07-2009, 01:17 AM
Exactly. Which gives me a 'tingly' feeling in the 'nether regions".

:D

They got stuff that does that too now.






Only not in a good way...:shake:

PhillyChiefFan
07-07-2009, 06:30 AM
Yeah Obama is on crack... Those things can take out most traditional forces.. Personally I want to see a new version of the A-10

Yes. Favorite aircraft of all time, Fairchild Republic knew what the hell they were doing.

PhillyChiefFan
07-07-2009, 06:39 AM
In all fairness, as much as I dislike Obama, he's right here.

It's not like we have 12 of these things. We have nearly 200 and to this point there's nothing in the world that can hang with our F-15's and F-18s, let alone the F-22. The Chengdu J-10 is not battle tested, it's evidently pretty buggy and it's still right at about the level of the Hornets or even the F-16. In other words, our 4th string fighter, essentially the Ford Focus of fighter aircraft, is considered roughly on par with the best China has to offer.

The Mig-35 hasn't shown anything yet and appears to be reverse engineered from an F-15. The SU-27 (and J-11) are good aircraft but again, nothing better than the F-18. The Sukhoi PAK FA is a direct competitor to the F-22 but they've been 'unveiling' that thing for 3 years now, who knows if it will ever actually be mass produced?

If we were ever in a situation where full-scale war erupted and we needed an true air-superiority fighter, we'll be just fine with the ones we have while we replenish. And none of that even considers possible F-35 production/use (aren't we building a couple thousand of those as well?). We have plenty of fighters.

I'm inclined to agree; we don't need anymore of them. Granted, given the choice between building 17 of these and dumping another billion into vote-buying....er....urban renewal projects, I'd much rather have te Raptors. That said, we could find far better things to spend the money on even within the national defense realm.

The F-35, IMO is much more versitale and I tend to agree with the decision to eliminate the need for the F-22, as it is already adapted to all branches of the military unlike the F-22.

The plan is to replace the F-16 Fighting Falcon over time with the F-35A, F-35B will replace the AV-8B Harrier, and the F-35C will replace Navy F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. IMO only one of those aircraft need to be replaced and that's the Harrier, but it nonetheless can do whatever the 18 and 16 can do.

Kerberos
07-07-2009, 07:40 AM
Welcome to a year ago.

These were delivered a year ago in MAY 08.

http://www.aircraftmechanix.com/forum/posts/id_198/title_first-fa-22-fighters-delivered-to-langley/

This is the date heading.

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 100%" class=forum-2><TBODY><TR><TD style="WIDTH: 50%; FONT-SIZE: 8pt">POSTED BY: marc (http://www.aircraftmechanix.com/marc) on 07/26/2008 07:54:09</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right; WIDTH: 50%; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Duck Dog
07-07-2009, 08:17 AM
The second pic, looking down at the fighter really shows how well that camo pattern works.

mikey23545
07-07-2009, 08:28 AM
<b>They're the first military aircraft ever built that is equipped with a 'Black-out - Button'.
What that means is this ...

The best conditioned fighter pilots are capable of maintaining consciousness up to in the vicinity of 15+ G. The Raptor is capable of making 22+ G. turns.

If some day an adversary builds a missile that is capable of catching up to one of these airplanes and a Raptor pilot sees that a strike is imminent, he hits the 'b.o.b.' and the airplane makes a virtual U-turn, leaving the missile to pass right on by.
They know that in the process he'll temporarily lose consciousness, so the Raptor then automatically comes back to straight and level flight until he wakes back up.</b>

:eek:

kepp
07-07-2009, 08:30 AM
Yeah, the Wart Hog and the F-4 Phantom, too. If they could make a new version of the Phantom with anywhere near the performance of 15's, 18's or the 22's just the sight of that drop-winged, needle-nosed, shoe-box son of a bitch would be a deterrent as good as any of the little Korean guy's junk missiles. Better yet, one of the Phantoms screaming in to take out the missile sites. Accompanied, of course, be a Phantom Wild Weasel anti electronic warfare radar jammer.

Never happen though but it's fun to think about.

"Ruh-roh!"

bevischief
07-07-2009, 09:13 AM
typcially things aren't brought to the public light until the government wants to use them.

I rembmer being at nellis AFB for Operation Red Flag in 1997; and seeing a pedestal of a F111 fighter; . I can't recal the exactly specifics, but I remember seeing a plaque on beneath a F111 on a pedastal that read the innaugural flight was in 1978 or something crazy; and we didn't even hear about the B2 or F111 until the Gulf War when we wanted to try out our new toys. I was in Navy intel an it was a surprise to me.

I believe there is some SERIOUS firepower/avionics/stealth in production that we simply haven't heard about yet. They'll let us know 10 years after it's been deployed.

F22 is a Bad, Bad, machine. In a good way.


The Military doesn't release anything like F117 to the public till the replacement is already in service.

dtebbe
07-07-2009, 09:20 AM
Of coarse what most people don't realize is that a lot of what makes the F-15, F-16, and FA-18 so good are the pilots who fly them. We have the best pilots in the world, hands down. Korea was an important lesson, and we haven't got caught with our pants down since then.

DT

loochy
07-07-2009, 09:24 AM
The Military doesn't release anything like F111 to the public till the replacement is already in service.

F-111 = http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/bomber/f111/f111_03.jpg

F-117 = http://www.jimbrooks.org/web/aviation/full/f-117_43.jpg

FishingRod
07-07-2009, 09:31 AM
Since we came out with the teen series, F-14,15,16 and F-18 we have swept the opposition from the skies in very unfair fights. I like our guys to be on the winning side of unfair fights. Bring on the Raptor!

Radar Chief
07-07-2009, 09:32 AM
Of coarse what most people don't realize is that a lot of what makes the F-15, F-16, and FA-18 so good are the pilots who fly them. We have the best pilots in the world, hands down. Korea was an important lesson, and we haven't got caught with our pants down since then.

DT

Something else I think people are missing on is we’re basically upgrading old fighter/attack planes to stealth, which means they’re more survivable so “the best pilots in the world” are more likely to make it home to fly another mission.
Personally, I think they deserve the best tools available to accomplish the incredible tasks asked of them.

Kerberos
07-07-2009, 11:19 AM
Something else I think people are missing on is we’re basically upgrading old fighter/attack planes to stealth, which means they’re more survivable so “the best pilots in the world” are more likely to make it home to fly another mission.
Personally, I think they deserve the best tools available to accomplish the incredible tasks asked of them.

This

:clap: I agree completely

GoHuge
07-07-2009, 01:48 PM
Something else I think people are missing on is we’re basically upgrading old fighter/attack planes to stealth, which means they’re more survivable so “the best pilots in the world” are more likely to make it home to fly another mission.
Personally, I think they deserve the best tools available to accomplish the incredible tasks asked of them.That's exactly why the DOD is stopping the production on the F-22. The F-15 hasn't been defeated in a dog fight and a 22 can take out as many 15's as they have missiles for. DOD is on record saying the F-22 will be the last manned fighter ever made. It already can operate far beyong what the human body can tolerate. There is no military in the world including our allies that could hang with the USA in conventional warfare. That type of fighting against America=Certain Epic FAIL! I didn't agree with doing it, but we smoked Iraqs conventional forces in three weeks! I think it might very well be the last conventional war we might fight other than enforcing a UN/NATO resolution. Lil Kim in NK and the Ayatollah in Iran would do well to look at Iraq and quit the chirping. As Dennis Miller put it Re. this situation"you really want a piece of this motherf**ker?"

Gates is being extremely smart with our military and what gets what funding. Right now our biggest foe is extremeist and guerilla warfare. Seriously when was the last time you heard of a US warplane being shot down? We have had air superiority in every conflict since Korea. In Vietnam we shot down 12 of there jets for everyone lost. Anymore than the 187 F-22's we currently have that can take out 8 F-15's in one engagement (that has never been defeated themselves in a dog fight) is a waste of resources. Our military needs to focus more on the troops on the ground, protecting them, and giving them the very best in offensive and defensive equipment. These are the guys that are fighting and dying. Gates has his priorities in check. I heard a story and several like it of our ground troops spending their own money to help fortify their Humvees. That is sad and inexcuseable. He is getting better armor for our boys and those new Humvees look like their on steroids. I have a tremendous amount of national pride when I see a F-22 or B-2, but nothing makes me prouder or as choked as an American to be in the airport and see a group of soldiers walking off the plane to a standing ovation from everybody in the joint. It's true emotion and gratitude. When you see one of these ladies or gentlemen out and about just walk up shake their hand, and just tell them thanks for their service. It's the least we can do for the baddest equipment in our arsenal :clap:.

Chief Faithful
07-07-2009, 02:33 PM
One thing the F22 provides that no other plane delivers is super sonic flight without afterburners. This provides unparralled intercept capabilities and distance on a singe tank of fuel. If the US is going to continue to close bases the F22 becomes more important.

The biggest drawback on the F22 is it is primarily an air to air superiority aircraft. It is not designed for ground support so it is limited. So while the F22 has an important role it is not needed in as many numbers as the F15.

I agree with Gates the F35 fills more roles and deserves more funding.

petegz28
07-07-2009, 02:34 PM
One thing the F22 provides that no other plane delivers is super sonic flight without afterburners. This provides unparralled intercept capabilities and distance on a singe tank of fuel. If the US is going to continue to close bases the F22 becomes more important.

The biggest drawback on the F22 is it is primarily an air to air superiority aircraft. It is not designed for ground support so it is limited. So while the F22 has an important role it is not needed in as many numbers as the F15.

I agree with Gates the F35 fills more roles and deserves more funding.

That's right..I forgot it has "super cruise".

listopencil
07-07-2009, 02:35 PM
Something else I think people are missing on is we’re basically upgrading old fighter/attack planes to stealth, which means they’re more survivable so “the best pilots in the world” are more likely to make it home to fly another mission.
Personally, I think they deserve the best tools available to accomplish the incredible tasks asked of them.


No shit, QFT.

Halfcan
07-07-2009, 05:47 PM
Hi North Korea, say hello to my little friend. BOOM!

That is exactly what I was thing. They are LONG over due for a beat down.

Halfcan
07-07-2009, 05:51 PM
That's exactly why the DOD is stopping the production on the F-22. The F-15 hasn't been defeated in a dog fight and a 22 can take out as many 15's as they have missiles for. DOD is on record saying the F-22 will be the last manned fighter ever made. It already can operate far beyong what the human body can tolerate. There is no military in the world including our allies that could hang with the USA in conventional warfare. That type of fighting against America=Certain Epic FAIL! I didn't agree with doing it, but we smoked Iraqs conventional forces in three weeks! I think it might very well be the last conventional war we might fight other than enforcing a UN/NATO resolution. Lil Kim in NK and the Ayatollah in Iran would do well to look at Iraq and quit the chirping. As Dennis Miller put it Re. this situation"you really want a piece of this motherf**ker?"

Gates is being extremely smart with our military and what gets what funding. Right now our biggest foe is extremeist and guerilla warfare. Seriously when was the last time you heard of a US warplane being shot down? We have had air superiority in every conflict since Korea. In Vietnam we shot down 12 of there jets for everyone lost. Anymore than the 187 F-22's we currently have that can take out 8 F-15's in one engagement (that has never been defeated themselves in a dog fight) is a waste of resources. Our military needs to focus more on the troops on the ground, protecting them, and giving them the very best in offensive and defensive equipment. These are the guys that are fighting and dying. Gates has his priorities in check. I heard a story and several like it of our ground troops spending their own money to help fortify their Humvees. That is sad and inexcuseable. He is getting better armor for our boys and those new Humvees look like their on steroids. I have a tremendous amount of national pride when I see a F-22 or B-2, but nothing makes me prouder or as choked as an American to be in the airport and see a group of soldiers walking off the plane to a standing ovation from everybody in the joint. It's true emotion and gratitude. When you see one of these ladies or gentlemen out and about just walk up shake their hand, and just tell them thanks for their service. It's the least we can do for the baddest equipment in our arsenal :clap:.


Great post!! :clap::clap: