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googlegoogle
07-07-2009, 01:46 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/1306438.html

Fried Meat Ball!
07-07-2009, 06:27 AM
From Kent Babb, Red Zone blog

If I could look back and consider what I thought the Chiefs’ top needs were entering the 2009 season, they would be a little something like this:

1. Quarterback; 2. Linebacker; 3. Right tackle; 4. Wide receiver; 5. Right guard.

Speaking of offensive linemen, one of those spots is the most ignored position this offseason, a time when most of the above needs were upgraded. Even if they weren’t upgraded to the level they need to be yet, such as wide receiver, at least the signing of Bobby Engram improves the unit by a few notches over last year’s group.

In fact, here’s the list with some of the additions more likely to contribute in significant ways:

1. Quarterback: Matt Cassel; 2. Linebacker(s): Zach Thomas, Mike Vrabel; 3. Right tackle; 4. Wide receiver: Engram; 5. Right guard: Mike Goff.

You’ll notice that the right tackle position was not addressed, other than the fifth-round draft pick of former Missouri lineman Colin Brown. He’s expected to add depth to a shallow line, but he isn’t expected to become a starter any time soon.

The Chiefs bypassed most free agent tackles for some reason, most notably passing on former Pro Bowler Orlando Pace. Now, it’s possible that Pace simply had a better offer in Chicago, where he eventually signed, or liked the Bears’ chances of competing more than that of the Chiefs. But Chiefs general manager Scott Pioli should have poured massive resources into attracting Pace to Kansas City, enough of an offer that that whole competition thing would have seemed trivial.

One of the most important things the team needs to find out is whether Cassel can be its long-term answer at quarterback. As we’ve written before, it will be difficult to answer some significant questions if Cassel is continually having to compensate for poor pass protection, most notably from the right side.

To me, the entire offensive line becomes an enormous priority as a result of Cassel’s future. But that right tackle spot was largely ignored, and the Chiefs are a few weeks away from beginning training camp and risking the consequences of an imperfect line. At 32, Damion McIntosh might have another two or three effective seasons. Or maybe he doesn’t.

The Chiefs approached the draft with many needs. Branden Albert could be a future Pro Bowler, and he is capable of holding down the left tackle spot for the next decade. Right tackle, though, needed to be addressed this offseason. Kansas City passed on Eugene Monroe in favor of defensive end Tyson Jackson, and with the team’s problems on defense and coach Todd Haley’s desire to move to the 3-4, the Jackson selection might have been sound.

And maybe it’ll work. Then again, Kansas City thought in 2007 that another season could be squeezed out of an aging group of linemen. That didn’t work.

For Matt Cassel’s sake, the Chiefs had better be right.

Kerberos
07-07-2009, 07:09 AM
Uh ..Yeah.. We already know this.

BTW this is pointed at the author not the messangers.

cmh6476
07-07-2009, 07:21 AM
When you have 10 total sacks in a season, I think it's a little short-sighted to leave D-Line off your top 5 priority list.

And maybe the team thinks Herb Taylor is their guy, like I do.

kepp
07-07-2009, 08:38 AM
At 32, Damion McIntosh might have another two or three effective seasons. Or maybe he doesn’t.

When was his last effective season? Did I miss it?

Rooster
07-07-2009, 08:44 AM
When was his last effective season? Did I miss it?

ROFLROFL No shit... I must have missed that too.

chiefbowe82
07-07-2009, 08:52 AM
When was his last effective season? Did I miss it?

by god i did to

Kerberos
07-07-2009, 08:58 AM
When was his last effective season? Did I miss it?

ROFLROFL No shit... I must have missed that too.

by god i did to

Well he did effectively take up a roster spot that could have been filled with someone that knew how to run block and pass protect at the NFL level.

Micjones
07-07-2009, 09:44 AM
The Chiefs are going to gamble on McIntosh playing well enough not to be a liability on the line this season.

I think he'll be about average as a pass protector. In the run game? Not so much.
Here's to interior and run left packages all season!

Cash Cow
07-07-2009, 10:13 AM
The Chiefs are going to gamble on McIntosh playing well enough not to be a liability on the line this season.




We are screwed.

Micjones
07-07-2009, 10:15 AM
We are screwed.

I'm not as worried as some.
We've improved the Right Guard spot. That helps.
And again, I'm not concerned about McIntosh as a pass protector.
I'm concerned with his inability to be effective in the run game.

cmh6476
07-07-2009, 10:16 AM
I know every coach claims open competition, but I just hope ours lives up to it because there is no way in hell MacIntosh beats out Taylor for the RT starting gig.

Micjones
07-07-2009, 10:19 AM
I know every coach claims open competition, but I just hope ours lives up to it because there is no way in hell MacIntosh beats out Taylor for the RT starting gig.

:shake:

Herb Taylor is NOT a Right Tackle.
He's too smallish to be effective there.

L.A. Chieffan
07-07-2009, 10:22 AM
22 fucking guys bitches

cmh6476
07-07-2009, 10:28 AM
:shake:

Herb Taylor is NOT a Right Tackle.
He's too smallish to be effective there.

i disagree. I don't see how he could be any worse than MacIntosh, especially when he seemed to play well at LT last year.

Micjones
07-07-2009, 10:30 AM
i disagree. I don't see how he could be any worse than MacIntosh, especially when he seemed to play well at LT last year.

He was under 300 pounds last year and after the conditioning program, I'm guessing he's under 290.

Not...a road grader.

Mr. Krab
07-07-2009, 10:46 AM
He was under 300 pounds last year and after the conditioning program, I'm guessing he's under 290.

Not...a road grader.
In a spread type offense a road grader RT is not needed nearly as much.

Micjones
07-07-2009, 10:48 AM
In a spread type offense a road grader RT is not needed nearly as much.

Our offense will be quite a bit more conventional under Haley I think.
And I honestly don't think Taylor's a long-term answer there.
He's just too small. I bet he's 285 right now.

kepp
07-07-2009, 10:49 AM
Keep doubtin' Colin Brown

talastan
07-07-2009, 10:56 AM
Keep doubtin' Colin Brown

This, I hope Brown shows enough in camp and preseason to put Sackintosh on the bench.

Buehler445
07-07-2009, 12:12 PM
He was under 300 pounds last year and after the conditioning program, I'm guessing he's under 290.

Not...a road grader.

Our offense will be quite a bit more conventional under Haley I think.
And I honestly don't think Taylor's a long-term answer there.
He's just too small. I bet he's 285 right now.

I'm not going to go through what you, Dane, and I talked about in a different thread. But quick recap:

It isn't optimum, but if Herb is better than McIntosh, get his ass in there.
He is not a a road grader, but neither is McIntosh
If Herb is as talented as everyone thinks (he did pretty well when Albert was injured), it is dumb to only play him behind Albert. Especially when McIntosh sucked a fat dick last year.
Even if it is for a year, put him out there and make him earn it henceforth.


Optimally though, Richardson lives up to his talent and becomes a dominant RT.

Mr. Krab
07-07-2009, 12:21 PM
Our offense will be quite a bit more conventional under Haley I think.
And I honestly don't think Taylor's a long-term answer there.
He's just too small. I bet he's 285 right now.
I don't know about Taylor but i don't see how we can conclude that Haley will be more conventional when he gave up on the running game as much as he did with Arizona. If the passing game works and the running game doesn't, Haley is just as likely to go shotgun spread and only use draws and sweeps as he is anything.

cmh6476
07-07-2009, 12:28 PM
I'm not going to go through what you, Dane, and I talked about in a different thread. But quick recap:

It isn't optimum, but if Herb is better than McIntosh, get his ass in there.
He is not a a road grader, but neither is McIntosh
If Herb is as talented as everyone thinks (he did pretty well when Albert was injured), it is dumb to only play him behind Albert. Especially when McIntosh sucked a fat dick last year.
Even if it is for a year, put him out there and make him earn it henceforth.


Optimally though, Richardson lives up to his talent and becomes a dominant RT.

this is my thinking as well. We know what MacIntosh has to offer, and at the tail end of a career at that. It's not going to be good enough in my opinion. I would rather see Taylor, Richardson or Brown get the playing time and hopefully one of those guys shows enough promise at the position to at least put MacIntosh's ass on the bench. Even if Herb isn't the long-term answer, maybe he can play the position better than MacIntosh would. And it isn't like Taylor is going to be able to ever play LT for us, that's what Albert will hopefully be doing for the next 5-7+ years. Let's see what Herb can do at RT. If he pans out then all the better, if not maybe one of the other youngsters can step up, and if not then you know you need to address the position next year.

Blick
07-07-2009, 12:40 PM
Might as well give Taylor a shot at RT, but I don't think he's big and strong enough to block left ends consistently. He'd be fine in pass protection. But, left ends would eat his lunch in the run game.

Chocolate Hog
07-07-2009, 12:53 PM
Taylor played good at RT

Blick
07-07-2009, 02:17 PM
Taylor played good at RT

in college.

He hasn't played enough RT for the Chiefs to make a good assessment of his play.

Micjones
07-07-2009, 02:50 PM
I don't know about Taylor but i don't see how we can conclude that Haley will be more conventional when he gave up on the running game as much as he did with Arizona.

He's gone on the record as having said he will tailor his scheme to the offensive pieces he has. We do not have the kind of personnel that Arizona does.

Micjones
07-07-2009, 02:53 PM
It isn't optimum

Why then would we force a square peg into a round hole and pretend he's a long-term solution there?

but if Herb is better than McIntosh, get his ass in there.

That remains to be seen. He hasn't played downs at RT that we can assess.
And to assume that he'll play as well on the right side, in the NFL, is silly.
None of us know that he'll be able to make the transition without missing a beat.

Optimally though, Richardson lives up to his talent and becomes a dominant RT.

That'd be ideal, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen.
The guy doesn't have the right head on his shoulders to do that.

Chocolate Hog
07-07-2009, 02:54 PM
Taylor played RT in pre-season he did good. If he does better then Mcintosh why shouldn't he be the starter? Haley said everythings an open competition

Micjones
07-07-2009, 02:56 PM
Taylor played RT in pre-season he did good.

He was so good in fact, he couldn't beat out the guy who had never played RT in his entire NFL career?

Chocolate Hog
07-07-2009, 03:01 PM
He was so good in fact, he couldn't beat out the guy who had never played RT in his entire NFL career?

McIntosh was the highest paid player on the O-line no? Carl & Herm weren't going to bench they'd look like idiots..... nevermind.

milkman
07-08-2009, 08:59 AM
Why then would we force a square peg into a round hole and pretend he's a long-term solution there?



That remains to be seen. He hasn't played downs at RT that we can assess.
And to assume that he'll play as well on the right side, in the NFL, is silly.
None of us know that he'll be able to make the transition without missing a beat.



That'd be ideal, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen.
The guy doesn't have the right head on his shoulders to do that.

That remains to be seen. He hasn't played downs at RT that we can assess.
And to assume that he'll play as well on the right side, in the NFL, is silly.
None of us know that he'll be able to make the transition without missing a beat.

What Taylor does as well as anyone is get underneath the defender's pad and hold his position.

He uses leverage as well as anyone I've seen.

That is not ideal for the RT position because you want a mauler, a guy that can push defenders, maybe knock them on their ass on occassion and get into the second level and knock another on his ass.

But what he does well is still better than McSuckintosh.

Buehler445
07-08-2009, 09:10 AM
Why then would we force a square peg into a round hole and pretend he's a long-term solution there?

Who's pretending? Who says he has to be there longer than this year if (hopefully when) we get a prototypical RT worth a shit in there? This is a best of a bunch of shitty options deal. It's not a 10 year Pro Bowler type situation here. It's a stop gap, and I think he's the best one.

That remains to be seen. He hasn't played downs at RT that we can assess.
And to assume that he'll play as well on the right side, in the NFL, is silly.
None of us know that he'll be able to make the transition without missing a beat.

Then why are you so against it? He could be significantly better than McIntosh who is pretty much the same profile (decent in pass pro, technician not a mauler) but who has shown that he sucks, is old, is declining and spent a lot of time bitching last year. MciIntosh sucks. Taylor is better at being McIntosh than McIntosh. Stick him in there and give him a shot. It's not like McIntosh is going anywhere.

That'd be ideal, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen.
The guy doesn't have the right head on his shoulders to do that.

Agreed. It sure would be nice though.
Posted via Mobile Device

Buehler445
07-08-2009, 09:14 AM
I guess I just don't understand why Taylor isn't in. His big weakness is run blocking, but so is McIntosh's. And from what I've seen Taylor's pass pro is better than McIntosh's also.
Posted via Mobile Device

OnTheWarpath58
07-08-2009, 09:16 AM
What Taylor does as well as anyone is get underneath the defender's pad and hold his position.

He uses leverage as well as anyone I've seen.

That is not ideal for the RT position because you want a mauler, a guy that can push defenders, maybe knock them on their ass on occassion and get into the second level and knock another on his ass.

But what he does well is still better than McSuckintosh.

This, this, a million times this.

Jawshco
07-08-2009, 10:34 AM
Or...we cut McIntosh and sign ol' Wayne Gandy to be our stop gap for the year. We could probably afford it, and Gandy can play both RT & LT. I think it would be an upgrade.

RustShack
07-08-2009, 10:42 AM
The only reason Richardson isn't starting or wasn't drafted high is because of his head. You have to think hes been working harder this year otherwise he would have been cut like Will Franklin.

talastan
07-08-2009, 10:48 AM
I still think Brown is the best option IMO. He played RT at the college level. He has the size and strength. His technique is the only question mark being that he played in a spread offense and didn't use the three point stance very much IIRC.

milkman
07-08-2009, 11:09 AM
I still think Brown is the best option IMO. He played RT at the college level. He has the size and strength. His technique is the only question mark being that he played in a spread offense and didn't use the three point stance very much IIRC.

I haven't seen any evidence that Brown's feet have been removed from the mud of his hometown, so unless Pioli and Haley saw something that makes them think they can improve his feet, I don't see him as a viable option at all.

RustShack
07-08-2009, 11:47 AM
Richardson > Brown easy

Unless fans like to play players based on college, which wouldn't surprise me since Chiefs fans also prefer the good guy character over talent.

Jawshco
07-08-2009, 03:14 PM
Wayne Gandy:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/3486

Stop gap supreme! I think he's better than who we have right now.

evolve27
07-08-2009, 03:43 PM
When you have 10 total sacks in a season, I think it's a little short-sighted to leave D-Line off your top 5 priority list.

And maybe the team thinks Herb Taylor is their guy, like I do.

Forgot about Herb!! Haha.

kepp
07-08-2009, 03:46 PM
I haven't seen any evidence that Brown's feet have been removed from the mud of his hometown, so unless Pioli and Haley saw something that makes them think they can improve his feet, I don't see him as a viable option at all.

Richardson > Brown easy
Unless fans like to play players based on college, which wouldn't surprise me since Chiefs fans also prefer the good guy character over talent.

Its amazing how many experts we have here.

milkman
07-08-2009, 03:51 PM
Its amazing how many experts we have here.

JFC.

None of us are fucking experts, but that doesn't mean that we can't see some things.

This is a place for us to express opinions.

Some are right, some are wrong.

You people that get butt hurt by our opinions need to take Mizzou dick out of your asses.

Chief Faithful
07-08-2009, 04:01 PM
No matter who is at RT they are going to be better than last year just because Goff is replacing the worst RG that has ever put on a Chiefs uniform.

Blick
07-08-2009, 05:03 PM
Yeah, Jones was one of the worst players I've ever seen.

I hope they give Herb a shot at RT. It'd be nice if he got McIntosh's ass out of there.

One problem with that though is our depth immediately goes to shit. If Albert and Taylor both go down with injuries...McIntosh would probably go in to play left tackle. Then, we would be fucked.

KCinNY
07-08-2009, 05:31 PM
Right tackle, though, needed to be addressed this offseason. Kansas City passed on Eugene Monroe in favor of defensive end Tyson Jackson, and with the team’s problems on defense and coach Todd Haley’s desire to move to the 3-4, the Jackson selection might have been sound.

First you claim the Chiefs have their LTOTF in Albert then you suggest using the #3 pick for Monroe to play RT?

Never mind that the Chiefs set a NFL record for futility is pressuring the QB last year.

You don't use third overall picks on a RT. A smart organization can get a good one in the middle rounds. Maybe Brown will eventually be that guy.

RustShack
07-08-2009, 08:41 PM
Its amazing how many experts we have here.

I guess if not being a homer means your an expert, then yeah.

StcChief
07-08-2009, 09:17 PM
When was his last effective season? Did I miss it?it was in Miami. a few years back.