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View Full Version : Life Reincarnation, do you believe in it?


Frankie
07-09-2009, 10:19 AM
A PM from another poster got me interested in starting this thread.

As I grew up, I, like most of you, was thought to believe in the Heaven/Hell afterlife. But my own independent thinking over the years makes me believe that some form of reincarnation makes as much (if not more) practical sense. I think it makes sense that each of our earthly lives is perhaps a learning and developmental semester until we graduate into a higher being. To stretch this a bit further, I even think that we may have been lower forms of life in the past, starting with a single cell one. We then were progressively reborn as bugs, worms, animals, higher more intelligent animals, raw humans and then progressively more developed humans. I think some of us here, for example, are a few lives ahead of, say, the oft-banned one.




(Wait for poll)

Katipan
07-09-2009, 10:30 AM
It's a far better story than the Christian idea of Heaven and Hell would be to me. And since my idea of a hellish afterlife is an eternity of regret, it would be nice to think you get to try and try again.

But I can't say that I believe it. I've never seen any indication that it exists. Which is interestingly the opposite of how I disbelieve heaven and hell. It's not the same matter of not seeing it equals not believing it. It's more a concept of the rules and guidelines to get into heaven are so outrageous and ridiculous that I couldn't support a God that had such mood swings. And he/she/it knows it.

So I choose to believe none of us know what the fuck happens and it's supposed to be that way.

Mr. Flopnuts
07-09-2009, 10:33 AM
So I choose to believe none of us know what the fuck happens and it's supposed to be that way.

Which would really support the theory behind reincarnation as a means to achieve God consciousness.

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 10:35 AM
It's my understanding that you get major points every time you come back to Earth because it's such a bitch of a place to be.
So much so in fact, that those who do come back usually don't do so for at least 3,000 or more years in-between.
I do not blame them.

MOhillbilly
07-09-2009, 10:39 AM
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/twainlfe.htm


I have been reading my fathers Twain collection. I found this one very interesting mixed with that twain sting of satire.

bdeg
07-09-2009, 10:41 AM
It's more a concept of the rules and guidelines to get into heaven are so outrageous and ridiculous that I couldn't support a God that had such mood swings. And he/she/it knows it.

So I choose to believe none of us know what the **** happens and it's supposed to be that way.

What do you consider to be the "rules and guidelines" to get into heaven? A lot of the rules set forth by Christian churches are not found in the Bible. Catholicism has even added their own books.

Katipan
07-09-2009, 10:48 AM
What do you consider to be the "rules and guidelines" to get into heaven? A lot of the rules set forth by Christian churches are not found in the Bible. Catholicism has even added their own books.

Take your pick.

We can start with the first commandment.

bdeg
07-09-2009, 10:59 AM
Take your pick.

We can start with the first commandment.
You can break every commandment and still go to heaven.

We're all sinners, big sin or small sin, and the only way to get into heaven is to be pure. The good you do here can never outweigh one sin. But anyone who believes in God and accepts Jesus as their savior has all of their sins paid for by Christ.

Thing is, once you're in heaven your rewards are dictated by how you conducted yourself on Earth.

A lot of churches have different(sometimes bad) interpretations, so it's difficult to pick out the truth.

Does anyone know a lot about Judaism here? I've got a question.

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 11:03 AM
You can break every commandment and still go to heaven.

We're all sinners, big sin or small sin, and the only way to get into heaven is to be pure. The good you do here can never outweigh one sin. But anyone who believes in God and accepts Jesus as their savior has all of their sins paid for by Christ.

Thing is, once you're in heaven your rewards are dictated by how you conducted yourself on Earth.

A lot of churches have different(sometimes bad) interpretations, so it's difficult to pick out the truth.

Does anyone know a lot about Judaism here? I've got a question.

Do tell!

Saulbadguy
07-09-2009, 11:03 AM
Makes more sense than Heaven and Hell, I guess.

I think the lights just go off, though.

Saulbadguy
07-09-2009, 11:05 AM
You can break every commandment and still go to heaven.

We're all sinners, big sin or small sin, and the only way to get into heaven is to be pure. The good you do here can never outweigh one sin. But anyone who believes in God and accepts Jesus as their savior has all of their sins paid for by Christ.

Thing is, once you're in heaven your rewards are dictated by how you conducted yourself on Earth.

A lot of churches have different(sometimes bad) interpretations, so it's difficult to pick out the truth.

Does anyone know a lot about Judaism here? I've got a question.

Rewards, huh? Sounds fabulous.

I know a bit about Judaism.

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 11:07 AM
Rewards, huh? Sounds fabulous.

I know a bit about Judaism.

Are those cash-back, or frequent flyer?

oldandslow
07-09-2009, 11:09 AM
I have an astronomy prof friend that has an interesting take on reincarnation...

He believes that we live in a closed universe. In other words - the universe starts with big bang, it stretches out as far as gravity will let it, and then it begins to contract and it falls back into itself. Mega black hole.

Anyway, mega implosion. He then believes that the big bang happens again and everything happens just the way it did the first time, again and again and again etc.

So if he is right, we are all stuck in gigantic computer loop, destined to live our lives over and over and over.

Reincarnated. Kinda.

bdeg
07-09-2009, 11:12 AM
Rewards, huh? Sounds fabulous.

I know a bit about Judaism.

Rewards was perhaps not the right word. Honors, maybe. There are privileges in heaven.

Judaism recognizes Jesus as a prophet, right? They don't believe he was the savior promised to them because not all of the criteria were met, but this "prophet" is quoted as saying that the only way to God is through him. How do they reconcile that, or do they just write him off altogether? That whole thing confuses me.

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 11:12 AM
I have an astronomy prof friend that has an interesting take on reincarnation...

He believes that we live in a closed universe. In other words - the universe starts with big bang, it stretches out as far as gravity will let it, and then it begins to contract and it falls back into itself. Mega black hole.

Anyway, mega implosion. He then believes that the big bang happens again and everything happens just the way it did the first time, again and again and again etc.

So if he is right, we are all stuck in gigantic computer loop, destined to live our lives over and over and over.

Reincarnated. Kinda.

Fascinating.
http://dic.academic.ru/pictures/enwiki/83/SpockVulcan.jpg:D

Katipan
07-09-2009, 11:13 AM
We're all sinners, big sin or small sin, and the only way to get into heaven is to be pure. The good you do here can never outweigh one sin. But anyone who believes in God and accepts Jesus as their savior has all of their sins paid for by Christ.

Sweet!

Thing is, once you're in heaven your rewards are dictated by how you conducted yourself on Earth.

I have a problem with my life being a skee ball game.

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 11:14 AM
Rewards was perhaps not the right word. Honors, maybe. There are privileges in heaven.



Playboy Club?

bdeg
07-09-2009, 11:20 AM
Sweet!



I have a problem with my life being a skee ball game.
We'll all be judged whether we like it or not.

bdeg
07-09-2009, 11:21 AM
Playboy Club?

Think of it as having a higher seat in Heaven.

Saulbadguy
07-09-2009, 11:21 AM
Rewards was perhaps not the right word. Honors, maybe. There are privileges in heaven.

Judaism recognizes Jesus as a prophet, right? They don't believe he was the savior promised to them because not all of the criteria were met, but this "prophet" is quoted as saying that the only way to God is through him. How do they reconcile that, or do they just write him off altogether? That whole thing confuses me.

Right, from my understanding, he was a prophet. None of the criteria were met to be the deliverer. It's not confusing, as no prophet could say the path to god would be through them.

BigVE
07-09-2009, 11:23 AM
Because of the type of society we live in today this is an interesting question. EVERYONE thinks that THEY have the right answers to all of lifes big issues and questions and very few people agree with others on any one point completely. No matter what point/idea someone else tries to get across to others there is always a counter-point or argument to the contrary whether its based on their own studies, their own experience, their own opinion or just their own ignorance. So who to say one is right and one is wrong? EVERYBODY can't be right, in fact most are probably wrong but I'm guessing that by the time all of the rest realize that it will be too late. Or not.

Katipan
07-09-2009, 11:25 AM
We'll all be judged whether we like it or not.

Ok.

So then I'll rephrase just for you.

It's more a concept of the rules and guidelines to get the best cuts of meat in heaven are so outrageous and ridiculous that I couldn't support a God that had such mood swings. And he/she/it knows it. I'd rather starve.

Saulbadguy
07-09-2009, 11:26 AM
Ok.

So then I'll rephrase just for you.

It's more a concept of the rules and guidelines to get the best cuts of meat in heaven are so outrageous and ridiculous that I couldn't support a God that had such mood swings. And he/she/it knows it. I'd rather starve.

Could God microwave a burrito so hot, that even he could not eat it without burning his mouth?

Makes ya think.

Mr. Flopnuts
07-09-2009, 11:32 AM
We'll all be judged whether we like it or not.


We're judged every day whether we like it or not.

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 11:33 AM
Think of it as having a higher seat in Heaven.

Kind of like a handicapped toilet with bars on the side then?

Height doesn't really concern me; a quality La-Z-Boy will work just as well.

With a drink holder, please.

bdeg
07-09-2009, 11:33 AM
Ok.

So then I'll rephrase just for you.

It's more a concept of the rules and guidelines to get the best cuts of meat in heaven are so outrageous and ridiculous that I couldn't support a God that had such mood swings. And he/she/it knows it. I'd rather starve.

I see that as being different from having outrageous requirements for entering Heaven, especially because I don't think anyone willbe disappointed with their place in Heaven. Why should he not reward those who dedicated their entire lives to him? I've gotta run, but could you elaborate on these perceived mood swings?

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 11:34 AM
We're judged every day whether we like it or not.

You ain't shittin', Mable. :D

Mr. Flopnuts
07-09-2009, 11:35 AM
I see that as being different from having outrageous requirements for entering Heaven, especially because I don't think anyone willbe disappointed with their place in Heaven. Why should he not reward those who dedicated their entire lives to him? I've gotta run, but could you elaborate on these perceived mood swings?

I don't know for sure, but it could be the whole concept of fiery pits of hell for those either not smart enough, or too smart to believe the heresay.

Simply Red
07-09-2009, 11:35 AM
Rewards, huh? Sounds fabulous.

I know a bit about Judaism.

Hey Saul, just cool it with the anti semitic remarks.

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 11:38 AM
Hey Saul, just cool it with the anti semitic remarks.

Nice Av, ya' old perv.:D

Katipan
07-09-2009, 11:41 AM
I see that as being different from having outrageous requirements for entering Heaven, especially because I don't think anyone willbe disappointed with their place in Heaven. Why should he not reward those who dedicated their entire lives to him? I've gotta run, but could you elaborate on these perceived mood swings?

You're the one that says you get rewards for what you do in life. You figure out what those are and I'll happily explain my end.

I'm of the opinion that my life is my reward.

Katipan
07-09-2009, 11:42 AM
I don't know for sure, but it could be the whole concept of fiery pits of hell for those either not smart enough, or too smart to believe the heresay.

Nahhhhhhhh

LaChapelle
07-09-2009, 11:45 AM
Only the meek.

FAX
07-09-2009, 11:52 AM
Because of the type of society we live in today this is an interesting question. EVERYONE thinks that THEY have the right answers to all of lifes big issues and questions and very few people agree with others on any one point completely. No matter what point/idea someone else tries to get across to others there is always a counter-point or argument to the contrary whether its based on their own studies, their own experience, their own opinion or just their own ignorance. So who to say one is right and one is wrong? EVERYBODY can't be right, in fact most are probably wrong but I'm guessing that by the time all of the rest realize that it will be too late. Or not.

I disagree.

I do, however, think that the concept of reincarnation is interesting. Especially so, since that one kid remembered being a WWII fighter pilot and he was only 9 or something.

FAX

Lzen
07-09-2009, 11:53 AM
I pretty much believe the way bdeg described it. Although I'm not 100% sure about the whole rewards thing.

tooge
07-09-2009, 11:58 AM
I think it would be cool to be reincarnated. Only, of course, if I could pick what I was to become. I think heaven and hell were created by early religious teachers (I'm talkin way before Jesus, like medicine man types) to keep people morally in line. You know, to keep Urg from nailing Gurgs wife and such. I do think we all have a soul. I also think that as a parent, no matter how bad my kids could be, I could never condemn them to a fiery afterlife for eternity. So, assuming there is a god, and we were all created by god, could he really do that to us if he loved us? I dont think so. Maybe our souls just go merge with gods or something. Who knows.

King_Chief_Fan
07-09-2009, 12:01 PM
Right, from my understanding, he was a prophet. None of the criteria were met to be the deliverer. It's not confusing, as no prophet could say the path to god would be through them.

I agree that you can't get to God through a prohet.
However, as you know, others believe (including me) that Jesus is the son of God. And therefore, you don't get to God without accepting him as Saviour. Accepting Him will get you to heaven.

Saulbadguy
07-09-2009, 12:07 PM
I agree that you can't get to God through a prohet.
However, as you know, others believe (including me) that Jesus is the son of God. And therefore, you don't get to God without accepting him as Saviour. Accepting Him will get you to heaven.

I don't see how any of that is confusing. Just disagreements between two major religions.

beach tribe
07-09-2009, 12:08 PM
I have an astronomy prof friend that has an interesting take on reincarnation...

He believes that we live in a closed universe. In other words - the universe starts with big bang, it stretches out as far as gravity will let it, and then it begins to contract and it falls back into itself. Mega black hole.

Anyway, mega implosion. He then believes that the big bang happens again and everything happens just the way it did the first time, again and again and again etc.

So if he is right, we are all stuck in gigantic computer loop, destined to live our lives over and over and over.

Reincarnated. Kinda.

I thought that too. Until I found out that the universe is actually accelerating in an outer direction, and pretty much has no chance of being able to contract back onto itself.

DaKCMan AP
07-09-2009, 12:08 PM
Who cares? The only thing any of us are 100% sure about is the life we currently have. I just try and make the most of the only certainty.

DaFace
07-09-2009, 12:08 PM
These answers are not mutually exclusive.

Mr. Flopnuts
07-09-2009, 12:09 PM
I think reincarnation is merely evolution through creation.

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 12:10 PM
I thought that too. Until I found out that the universe is actually accelerating in an outer direction, and pretty much has no chance of being able to contract back onto itself.

"Fascinating".
http://blogs.southflorida.com/citylink_dansweeney/Spock.jpg

oldandslow
07-09-2009, 12:10 PM
I thought that too. Until I found out that the universe is actually accelerating in an outer direction, and pretty much has no chance of being able to contract back onto itself.

Depends on the amount of dark matter. Enough and CRUNCH. Not enough and a cold, dead, exanding eternity.

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 12:14 PM
I think reincarnation is merely evolution through creation.

I think you and I are thinking on the same level, I just don't believe that there is a "progression-chart" in terms of what "level" of life-form you have to assume in order to advance, because time is non-linear and infinite beyond what we're experiencing here on Earth in our day to day lives.

Mr. Wizard
07-09-2009, 12:16 PM
According to Mr Wizard ... religion is manmade, faith is not.

More people have died in the name of religion than any other reason in history, sad but true.

We will all die in this life, what we do between now and then dictates whether we really lived or not.

Doing something good just to get into heaven is essentially saying that if you knew there were not a heaven you wouldn't do anything good at all.

We all have a choice, be a good person or be a bad person. Hopefully our children live in a world where people choose to be good, I am pessimistic yet hopeful.

King_Chief_Fan
07-09-2009, 12:16 PM
I don't see how any of that is confusing. Just disagreements between two major religions.

agree, not confusing at all

beach tribe
07-09-2009, 12:17 PM
I read a really interesting story a long time ago called the three world ages.

Supposedly everybody, all of us, living and dead, lived together in a place kind of like earth I guess, and all were ruled by an unmatchable, and unconquerable God. Lucifer decided he wanted live differently, but God would not allow it. Lucifer says to him that most all of us want to live more free, sinful, and hedonistic, God disagrees with him about that, and asks everyone, and of course since God is all powerful, everyone agrees with him, and will not say that they prefer satans way because God cannot be overthrown. So they decided to let us all be born into a world of free will see what we would do as a whole, and individually. I know big deal right? It was kind of interesting at the time though, although I don't buy it.
And yes I know it looks like a 12 yr old typed this, but I'm in a hurry at wrk.

kysirsoze
07-09-2009, 12:18 PM
What do you consider to be the "rules and guidelines" to get into heaven? A lot of the rules set forth by Christian churches are not found in the Bible. Catholicism has even added their own books.

Not to get too off topic, but I'm pretty sure you're refering to the apocrypha which was originally in the bible, but later eliminated primarily due to the fact that they were written in un unpopular language. The Catholics just put them back.

Fish
07-09-2009, 12:21 PM
Interesting reading....

http://www.iyyun.com/publications/reincarnation_and_judaism.html

<dl><dt><center>Debating Reincarnation: </center> </dt><dt><center>Common arguments against reincarnation and the response</center> </dt></dl> A typical contention when speaking of reincarnation deals with the issue of free choice. A person feels that if their destiny has been decided by the deeds of their previous incarnation, there is no true free choice in their life. Everything has been decided long before they were even born. Their financial status, emotional well being and so on, all has been previously ordained by another body possessing their soul. Therefore, according to this argument, there is no room for true personal achievement in one's lifetime, no driving-motivating force compelling one to higher aspirations.

According to the Kabbalistic interpretations of Reincarnation, each person is judged solely on the merit of their own actions and deeds. The previous incarnations have no effect on the present incarnation's reward and punishment. Each individual incarnation of the soul is considered a new being, unaffected by anything their previous incarnations had done. The positive effects of previous incarnations exist in potential only and can be harnessed through cultivation of the soul connection. Negativity, however, has no immortality and ceases to exist with the demise of the body.

For those whose sole knowledge of reincarnation stems from Eastern thought and culture, the concept of Karma, cause and effect, seems to preclude the need for a G-d of justice and judgment. The belief of Karma is such that every action causes a reaction, and the deeds of a person find a reaction in the next incarnation. Therefore, to these people, reincarnation seems to be an un-Jewish concept, negating the presence of a creator.
Cause and effect have a fundamental role in Judaism. For every positive deed there is a positive force created in this world, on an individual level and a global level, and vice-versa with negativity. However, this belief in Judaism differs greatly from the belief of Karma in that the effects of a person's actions reverberate within their lifetime and only within that span of time. When the body passes on, it takes with it the effects of its actions in this world and the new incarnation of that same soul is born as a newborn child, a fresh sheet of paper, waiting to be filled with a new life story.

There is much resistance to the concept of reincarnation from those who believe that there is much more to life than the superficial. They feel that there are no easy answers and resent those who would give simple explanations for difficult issues in life. Reincarnation seems to afford some the ability to explain away those experiences which seem to contradict our rational thinking. When tragedy occurs with the innocent, it is because 'their previous incarnation was undeserving,' and when the wicked succeed, 'their previous incarnation was surely a great individual.' These are pat answers and distance those who feel that these issues are not so easily resolved.

However, Judaism does not offer simple solutions to these complicated and complex issues. Although there may in some instances be truth to answers which involve previous incarnations, not one of us has the spiritual capabilities of such calculation. Even the great Moses, of whom it was said--'there was not a prophet of Moses' stature before him and there never will be another'--was stymied by the suffering of the innocent and the prosperity of the wicked, and he questioned G-d regarding it.
There are many who find the idea of reincarnation uncomfortable. They feel that it challenges their individuality, placing them in a long chain of bodies connecting to one common soul, each body a mere vessel for this same 'generic' soul. They feel that their personality and attributes are unique and individual and not something which is duplicated, like some carbon copy, from lifetime to lifetime.

These feelings are valid, and true. Each person is a completely unique individual, never having existed before and never to exist again. The soul which they share with so many before them is a multi faceted soul, built of layers and layers of spiritual dimensions. Each incarnation manifests a completely unique and individual aspect of this complex soul, resulting in a new and heretofore unseen personality and spirit. Therefore, each person is unmatched and incomparable to any person that ever lived.
Then there are those who feel that the entire concept of reincarnation is actually a metaphor (a metaphor being an image suggesting something else). They would prefer to believe that existence in a previous form and in future incarnations represents dimensions of a person's present character and being which may not be included in one's concept of self. In other words, ones existence may be much deeper and more encompassing than one may imagine and perceive in day to day life.

The Kabbalistic Master interprets Reincarnation as an actual fact and simultaneously a parable. While reincarnation truly does occur when the soul passes on, there are also dimensions of one's soul which extend far beyond our perception of reality and are more complex than the imagination.

kysirsoze
07-09-2009, 12:23 PM
As far as the whole "rules to get in" thing, while there are guidelines for living your life in Christianity, that doesn't equate to rules to get in. The God I believe in allows for mistakes (thankfully). It's more about faith than obedience.

Mr. Flopnuts
07-09-2009, 12:27 PM
I think you and I are thinking on the same level, I just don't believe that there is a "progression-chart" in terms of what "level" of life-form you have to assume in order to advance, because time is non-linear and infinite beyond what we're experiencing here on Earth in our day to day lives.

Bingo.

DaKCMan AP
07-09-2009, 12:27 PM
As far as the whole "rules to get in" thing, while there are guidelines for living your life in Christianity, that doesn't equate to rules to get in. The God I believe in allows for mistakes (thankfully). It's more about faith than obedience.

Any God I would choose to believe in would care less about your belief/faith in him/her/it and more about how you lived your life, ie. honest, kind, generous, etc.

Katipan
07-09-2009, 12:31 PM
I pretty much believe the way bdeg described it. Although I'm not 100% sure about the whole rewards thing.

Aim for the middle hole just to be safe. That one is always worth 10,000+

Katipan
07-09-2009, 12:33 PM
According to Mr Wizard ... religion is manmade, faith is not.

More people have died in the name of religion than any other reason in history, sad but true.

We will all die in this life, what we do between now and then dictates whether we really lived or not.

Doing something good just to get into heaven is essentially saying that if you knew there were not a heaven you wouldn't do anything good at all.

We all have a choice, be a good person or be a bad person. Hopefully our children live in a world where people choose to be good, I am pessimistic yet hopeful.

Nice.

kysirsoze
07-09-2009, 12:33 PM
Any God I would choose to believe in would care less about your belief/faith in him/her/it and more about how you lived your life, ie. honest, kind, generous, etc.

IMO Life is a very small and relatively minor portion of existence. Therefore, while it's certainly important to live a good, honest life, it's more important to prepare for what's to come.

Furthermore, as to the faith vs. works arguement, it is my belief that if you have faith in God then you will naturally live a more loving and generous life. (And no I'm not saying faith in God is neccesary to live a good life.:D)

DaKCMan AP
07-09-2009, 12:36 PM
IMO Life is a very small and relatively minor portion of existence. Therefore, while it's certainly important to live a good, honest life, it's more important to prepare for what's to come.

Furthermore, as to the faith vs. works arguement, it is my belief that if you have faith in God then you will naturally live a more loving and generous life. (And no I'm not saying faith in God is neccesary to live a good life.:D)

You can have your opinions and beliefs, but you do not KNOW if there is an afterlife. You do know that you have this one life and it is the only life you can be 100% certain about. Therefore, I'm making the most of it because there are no other guarantees.

There are many who, at the very least, claim to have faith and do not live loving, generous or honest lives.

Fish
07-09-2009, 12:42 PM
IMO Life is a very small and relatively minor portion of existence. Therefore, while it's certainly important to live a good, honest life, it's more important to prepare for what's to come.

Furthermore, as to the faith vs. works arguement, it is my belief that if you have faith in God then you will naturally live a more loving and generous life. (And no I'm not saying faith in God is neccesary to live a good life.:D)

Do you ever consider that in the crazy chance that you are wrong about the afterlife, that you will have wasted the only important part of your life preparing for something that you will never receive? Does it ever cross your mind that in all your preparation for the next life, you might be missing out on actually living this life?

Just curious...

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 01:06 PM
Do you ever consider that in the crazy chance that you are wrong about the afterlife, that you will have wasted the only important part of your life preparing for something that you will never receive? Does it ever cross your mind that in all your preparation for the next life, you might be missing out on actually living this life?

Just curious...

My biggest problem with the "suffer on Earth, be ready for Heaven"-trip is that it can and has become an easy dodge for Earthly responsibilities. It allows people to neglect and treat others poorly based on religion and class, and it has allowed a slow, long poisoning of the planet both physically AND spiritually.

$0.02 cents.:)

Jenson71
07-09-2009, 01:22 PM
Yes. I was a slave in Gabon in my previous life. Before that I was a butterfly.

Frankie
07-09-2009, 01:41 PM
A lot of the rules set forth by Christian churches are not found in the Bible.FWIW,

"A lot of the rules set forth by Islam are not found in the Quran."

That was expressed to me in a debate with a practicing Muslim of open-minded faith. I trust he knows the Quran a lot better than me so I'm taking his word for it. Yet it's also another reason for me to discard the middleman and go straight to believing in God. Religion is so manipulated by man it's not even funny, and most of the time for evil purposes.

Frankie
07-09-2009, 01:42 PM
You can break every commandment and still go to heaven.

So what's Hitler's address in Heaven? ;)

Frankie
07-09-2009, 01:45 PM
I have an astronomy prof friend that has an interesting take on reincarnation...

He believes that we live in a closed universe. In other words - the universe starts with big bang, it stretches out as far as gravity will let it, and then it begins to contract and it falls back into itself. Mega black hole.

Anyway, mega implosion. He then believes that the big bang happens again and everything happens just the way it did the first time, again and again and again etc.

So if he is right, we are all stuck in gigantic computer loop, destined to live our lives over and over and over.

Reincarnated. Kinda.

Dammit, I need better breaks next time! This theory makes me go through all of the shit I've gone through in this life.

kysirsoze
07-09-2009, 02:03 PM
Do you ever consider that in the crazy chance that you are wrong about the afterlife, that you will have wasted the only important part of your life preparing for something that you will never receive? Does it ever cross your mind that in all your preparation for the next life, you might be missing out on actually living this life?

Just curious...

My biggest problem with the "suffer on Earth, be ready for Heaven"-trip is that it can and has become an easy dodge for Earthly responsibilities. It allows people to neglect and treat others poorly based on religion and class, and it has allowed a slow, long poisoning of the planet both physically AND spiritually.

$0.02 cents.:)

I never said anything about suffering in this life. I enjoy my life immensely. As a matter of fact, my faith enriches nearly every facet of my life. Plus, anyone who uses faith as an excuse to treat people poorly or dodge responsibility has missed the point so completely that there is no help. In my experience, at least as many people use the "there's no God so I better live this life to the fullest" excuse to shit on people.

And to answer your question, Fish, yes it has occured to me that there is the slightest possibility that I might not know what happens after death. I am not omniscient. Just close.:)

Reaper16
07-09-2009, 02:12 PM
I have an astronomy prof friend that has an interesting take on reincarnation...

He believes that we live in a closed universe. In other words - the universe starts with big bang, it stretches out as far as gravity will let it, and then it begins to contract and it falls back into itself. Mega black hole.

Anyway, mega implosion. He then believes that the big bang happens again and everything happens just the way it did the first time, again and again and again etc.

So if he is right, we are all stuck in gigantic computer loop, destined to live our lives over and over and over.

Reincarnated. Kinda.
The Eternal Recurrence. Sounds like your friend is a fan of Nietzsche.

Otter
07-09-2009, 02:19 PM
I have kind of a spiritual Native American type philosophy.

When something dies it decomposes and becomes other plants and other trees. Birds eat the fruit from the trees, have young, the birds die and cycle continues. It makes the most sense to me because if you study how cycles work in the universe it's just the way things are.

So yes, I guess I do believe in reincarnation on a different level.

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 02:34 PM
I never said anything about suffering in this life. I enjoy my life immensely. As a matter of fact, my faith enriches nearly every facet of my life. Plus, anyone who uses faith as an excuse to treat people poorly or dodge responsibility has missed the point so completely that there is no help. In my experience, at least as many people use the "there's no God so I better live this life to the fullest" excuse to shit on people.

And to answer your question, Fish, yes it has occured to me that there is the slightest possibility that I might not know what happens after death. I am not omniscient. Just close.:)

It can go both ways.

Fish
07-09-2009, 02:37 PM
I have kind of a spiritual Native American type philosophy.

When something dies it decomposes and becomes other plants and other trees. Birds eat the fruit from the trees, have young, the birds die and cycle continues. It makes the most sense to me because if you study how cycles work in the universe it's just the way things are.

So yes, I guess I do believe in reincarnation on a different level.

You should explore the idea of panentheism. You may find some interest there.

Otter
07-09-2009, 02:44 PM
I have an astronomy prof friend that has an interesting take on reincarnation...

He believes that we live in a closed universe. In other words - the universe starts with big bang, it stretches out as far as gravity will let it, and then it begins to contract and it falls back into itself. Mega black hole.

Anyway, mega implosion. He then believes that the big bang happens again and everything happens just the way it did the first time, again and again and again etc.

So if he is right, we are all stuck in gigantic computer loop, destined to live our lives over and over and over.

Reincarnated. Kinda.

Where would enough gravity be generated to cause the universe to implode upon itself? A size to mass ratio would be astronomically (pun intended) skewed in favor of size. It's mostly empty space.

Jenson71
07-09-2009, 02:45 PM
I have kind of a spiritual Native American type philosophy.

When something dies it decomposes and becomes other plants and other trees. Birds eat the fruit from the trees, have young, the birds die and cycle continues. It makes the most sense to me because if you study how cycles work in the universe it's just the way things are.

So yes, I guess I do believe in reincarnation on a different level.

The Indians stole that from The Lion King.

jidar
07-09-2009, 02:45 PM
I don't see the point in reincarnation if you forget everything anyway.
Effectively it's not you if your whole life is different and you don't remember anything you did before.
To that end, no. It makes no logical sense and serves no purpose, so I think it's probably horse shit.

FAX
07-09-2009, 02:49 PM
I don't see the point in reincarnation if you forget everything anyway.
Effectively it's not you if your whole life is different and you don't remember anything you did before.
To that end, no. It makes no logical sense and serves no purpose, so I think it's probably horse shit.

People who believe in reincarnation explain that particular point this way, Mr. jidar; they say that we all have certain "tendencies" and often do things or choose things without conscious decision-making playing a part. They say these instinctive, unexplainable choices are the prior lives making themselves manifest in our current iteration.

FAX

KCChiefsMan
07-09-2009, 02:50 PM
if there is reincarnation, I bet I was hitler in my past life...well I couldn't have been anyone that powerful, probably was just a seriel rapist. Of course, I don't believe in reincarnation just sayin.

Mr. Flopnuts
07-09-2009, 02:55 PM
I don't see the point in reincarnation if you forget everything anyway.
Effectively it's not you if your whole life is different and you don't remember anything you did before.
To that end, no. It makes no logical sense and serves no purpose, so I think it's probably horse shit.

Well, that's fair. But I don't think it's accurate at all. Sure, you can't remember your old name, and how old you were when you lost your virginity, but it's clear to see that people have different skill sets in this life. A believer in reincarnation would say those are lessons you've learned and are carrying with you now. Subconsciously you retain that which is important.

Mr. Flopnuts
07-09-2009, 02:56 PM
People who believe in reincarnation explain that particular point this way, Mr. jidar; they say that we all have certain "tendencies" and often do things or choose things without conscious decision-making playing a part. They say these instinctive, unexplainable choices are the prior lives making themselves manifest in our current iteration.

FAX

I didn't need to even post. Well said Mr. Fax.

Mr. Flopnuts
07-09-2009, 02:57 PM
I don't see the point in reincarnation if you forget everything anyway.
Effectively it's not you if your whole life is different and you don't remember anything you did before.
To that end, no. It makes no logical sense and serves no purpose, so I think it's probably horse shit.

Well, that's fair. But I don't think it's accurate at all. Sure, you can't remember your old name, and how old you were when you lost your virginity, but it's clear to see that people have different skill sets in this life. A believer in reincarnation would say those are lessons you've learned and are carrying with you now. Subconsciously you retain that which is important.

Let me put this another way. Your personality is a direct result of your previous lifetime experiences.

Pioli Zombie
07-09-2009, 04:28 PM
I believe if you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you have everlasting life. If however you reject Gods son then you are unfortunately reincarnated as an everlasting piece of charcoal burning in a pool of hell fire. I don't WISH that, its just what I believe and because I believe it and that fact saddens me I say it. Much like if I saw your building was on fire I wouild hope you weren't offended if I told you your building was on fire and you need to get out.
Posted via Mobile Device

FAX
07-09-2009, 04:43 PM
When you spend quality time in nature, it's difficult to believe that death is a true state.

When you are in the mountains, for example, and you sit quietly and listen - really listen - to the world ... the wind among the leaves, the whisper of the grasses, the subtle movements in the trees ... as you watch the sunlight strike the stones and the flowers and you feel its warmth on your face and you can almost feel the low hum of the Earth beneath you, you have a very profound sense that death - true death, permanent death, cataclysmic death - cannot be real.

FAX

DaFace
07-09-2009, 04:44 PM
I can go both ways.

NTTAWWT

Pioli Zombie
07-09-2009, 04:46 PM
Did he just call ROR a twat?
Posted via Mobile Device

Pioli Zombie
07-09-2009, 04:47 PM
Let me put this another way. Your personality is a direct result of your previous lifetime experiences.
What if you were an asshole?
Posted via Mobile Device

FAX
07-09-2009, 04:54 PM
What if you were an asshole?
Posted via Mobile Device

They, Mr. Pioli Zombie, are typically reincarnated as San Diego fans.

Or midgets.

FAX

Pioli Zombie
07-09-2009, 04:56 PM
They, Mr. Pioli Zombie, are typically reincarnated as San Diego fans.

Or midgets.

FAX

Not all midgets are assholes. I liked that little guy on Seinfeld.
Posted via Mobile Device

FAX
07-09-2009, 04:58 PM
Not all midgets are assholes. I liked that little guy on Seinfeld.
Posted via Mobile Device

I see that you are misinformed in the ways of midgets.

FAX

JuicesFlowing
07-09-2009, 05:03 PM
I have an astronomy prof friend that has an interesting take on reincarnation...

He believes that we live in a closed universe. In other words - the universe starts with big bang, it stretches out as far as gravity will let it, and then it begins to contract and it falls back into itself. Mega black hole.

Anyway, mega implosion. He then believes that the big bang happens again and everything happens just the way it did the first time, again and again and again etc.

So if he is right, we are all stuck in gigantic computer loop, destined to live our lives over and over and over.

Reincarnated. Kinda.

To me, this is the only true explanation of deja vu. I don't really believe in reincarnation, but it's the only explanation I can think of to explain deja vu.

Pioli Zombie
07-09-2009, 05:14 PM
To me, this is the only true explanation of deja vu. I don't really believe in reincarnation, but it's the only explanation I can think of to explain deja vu.

Or it could mean the professor is a douchebag.
Posted via Mobile Device

FAX
07-09-2009, 05:18 PM
To me, this is the only true explanation of deja vu. I don't really believe in reincarnation, but it's the only explanation I can think of to explain deja vu.

It's also very possible (especially given the revelations derived from quantum mechanics research) that "time" is non-linear, Mr. JuicesFlowing. In fact, our minds - particularly the sub-conscious mind - may well function outside the limitations of linear time. Dreams, for example, seem to occasionally exist outside of the "now". And, of course, history is rife with examples of prophecy which, if and when true, demonstrates the mind's ability to retrieve information from the "future".

I'm not so sure that Einstein had it right about time. This whole quantum physics deal has really changed a lot of peoples' minds about that.

FAX

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 05:41 PM
Not all midgets are assholes. I liked that little guy on Seinfeld.
Posted via Mobile Device

LMAO:clap:

Fish
07-09-2009, 05:43 PM
To me, this is the only true explanation of deja vu. I don't really believe in reincarnation, but it's the only explanation I can think of to explain deja vu.

Scientists are on the verge of explaining deja vu according to a great number of people... and it happens to have nothing to do with reincarnation. Instead it's study is centered around a fascinating part of the brain called the Dentate gyrus and grid cells that are located in the entorhinal cortex.

http://www.shvoong.com/medicine-and-health/neurology/1768936-deja-vu-explained/

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=could-deja-vu-be-explained-by-grid-cells

Adept Havelock
07-09-2009, 05:49 PM
I believe in Reincarnation in a physical sense.

The molecules of my body will eventually become part of something else as I rot.

Groves
07-09-2009, 06:39 PM
It's more about faith than obedience.

An even more specific statement of what you probably meant is, "It's more about faith in the righteous life, death on our behalf and resurrection of the historical Jesus than obedience."

Very true.

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 06:55 PM
Scientists are on the verge of explaining deja vu according to a great number of people... and it happens to have nothing to do with reincarnation. Instead it's study is centered around a fascinating part of the brain called the Dentate gyrus and grid cells that are located in the entorhinal cortex.

http://www.shvoong.com/medicine-and-health/neurology/1768936-deja-vu-explained/

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=could-deja-vu-be-explained-by-grid-cells

The one thing this doesn't explain for me is that my deja-vu experiences were very frequent as a child and tapered off as I got older.

And, they were never so much about the place I was at as they were about what I was doing.
Example:
My Great Grandfather teaching me how to make and set a "figure 4 trap" for wild animals. That's a pretty specific thing for a deja-vu.

Pioli Zombie
07-09-2009, 07:14 PM
The one thing this doesn't explain for me is that my deja-vu experiences were very frequent as a child and tapered off as I got older.

And, they were never so much about the place I was at as they were about what I was doing.
Example:
My Great Grandfather teaching me how to make and set a "figure 4 trap" for wild animals. That's a pretty specific thing for a deja-vu.

Or grandfather asking us all to look for hotdogs in his pocket.
Posted via Mobile Device

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 07:23 PM
Or grandfather asking us all to look for hotdogs in his pocket.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mental Note:

Never go to a PZ family reunion if invited as a guest, and make sure offspring does not marry in to PZ-family.

End Note.:D

BucEyedPea
07-09-2009, 07:25 PM
O.M. G. I'm a teeny minority in that poll.

Pioli Zombie
07-09-2009, 07:25 PM
Mental Note:

Never go to a PZ family reunion if invited as a guest, and make sure offspring does not marry in to PZ-family.

End Note.:D

And don't send your children to the Morgan Freeman Daycare Center.
Posted via Mobile Device

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 07:28 PM
And don't send your children to the Morgan Freeman Daycare Center.
Posted via Mobile Device

LMAO

I wonder if he'll be back for the third installation in the new Batman series?

stevieray
07-09-2009, 07:30 PM
spirit...

intent
purpose
meaning

...for all of us.

Good works will not bring you faith, but faith will bring good works

Ari Chi3fs
07-09-2009, 07:38 PM
I've actually gone through a past-life regression session, which was one of the most interesting things I've ever experienced. I did this on my birthday.

Not only did I go into a life 2000 years ago as a greek soldier/barbarian... I also experienced a life of a pioneer girl who was brutally murdered by Cherokee...

The most interesting part was not the deaths... But the actual Life in between Lives.

Read the book Journey of Souls by Michael Newton... One of the most fascinating books that I've ever read... In fact it inspired me to do the past life journey.

So I truly have ZERO doubt that we keep incarnating until we finally get all our lessons learned.
Posted via Mobile Device

stevieray
07-09-2009, 07:49 PM
... I also experienced a life of a pioneer girl who was brutally murdered by Cherokee...




Posted via Mobile Device

wow. bad luck, considering the Cherokee were mostly a peaceful tribe.

Ari Chi3fs
07-09-2009, 08:19 PM
wow. bad luck, considering the Cherokee were mostly a peaceful tribe.

That was my feeling from the vision, but not certain what actual tribe it was... That was the feeling of the moment... Someone said Cherokee in the scene, but who really knows?
Posted via Mobile Device

Frankie
07-09-2009, 08:57 PM
Think of it as having a higher seat in Heaven.

Too high is not very good. Somewhere in the middle third close to the 50 yard line is what I prefer.

Ultra Peanut
07-09-2009, 09:11 PM
I've been reincarnated, sort of.

p. cool if I may say so myself

Frankie
07-09-2009, 09:17 PM
So they decided to let us all be born into a world of free will see what we would do as a whole, and individually.

Doesn't this parallel the Adam and Eve thing and their casting out of the garden of Eden? If so then that story is only symbolic and not to be taken word by word which in turn makes blind faith (religion) invalid.

BucEyedPea
07-09-2009, 09:19 PM
I've been reincarnated, sort of.

p. cool if I may say so myself

Yes, we know. But you screwed up by picking up the wrong body this life.
So now you're a female trapped inside a male body.

Frankie
07-09-2009, 09:20 PM
There are many who, at the very least, claim to have faith and do not live loving, generous or honest lives.

This.

Frankie
07-09-2009, 09:23 PM
It can go both ways.

Really? You mean, .. like,... AC/DC?
;)

Pioli Zombie
07-09-2009, 09:25 PM
LMAO

I wonder if he'll be back for the third installation in the new Batman series?

Yes. As the Diddler.
Posted via Mobile Device

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 09:27 PM
Really? You mean, .. like,... AC/DC?
;)

I mean people of all walks of life are capable of being selfish and irresponsible.

But, ah...thanks for the invite?:D

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 09:28 PM
Yes. As the Diddler.
Posted via Mobile Device


ROFLROFLROFL:clap: Rep!

Frankie
07-09-2009, 09:28 PM
They, Mr. Pioli Zombie, are typically reincarnated as San Diego fans.

Or midgets.

FAX

ROFL

RedNeckRaider
07-09-2009, 09:30 PM
I've actually gone through a past-life regression session, which was one of the most interesting things I've ever experienced. I did this on my birthday.

Not only did I go into a life 2000 years ago as a greek soldier/barbarian... I also experienced a life of a pioneer girl who was brutally murdered by Cherokee...

The most interesting part was not the deaths... But the actual Life in between Lives.

Read the book Journey of Souls by Michael Newton... One of the most fascinating books that I've ever read... In fact it inspired me to do the past life journey.

So I truly have ZERO doubt that we keep incarnating until we finally get all our lessons learned.
Posted via Mobile Device

LMAO Did they have those fancy cards and read your future for you also

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 09:30 PM
Yes. As the Diddler.
Posted via Mobile Device

"Diddle me this"!ROFL

Frankie
07-09-2009, 09:33 PM
I believe in Reincarnation in a physical sense.

The molecules of my body will eventually become part of something else as I rot.

If you were killed and eaten by hungry bears then you'll be something else sooner than that.


:p

Pioli Zombie
07-09-2009, 09:35 PM
The Diddler arranges the largest sweet sixteen party ever held in Gotham City for his granddaughter. Then takes her out for the "biggest steak in town"
Posted via Mobile Device

Pioli Zombie
07-09-2009, 09:36 PM
If you were killed and eaten by hungry bears then you'll be something else sooner than that.


:p

You'd be bear shit.
Posted via Mobile Device

RedNeckRaider
07-09-2009, 09:37 PM
If you were killed and eaten by hungry bears then you'll be something else sooner than that.


:p

Kind of like the Mitch Hedburg (sp) joke about buildings not having a 13th floor. You people staying on the 14th floor you know what floor you are really on. If you jump out the window of the 14th floor you will die sooner.

Pioli Zombie
07-09-2009, 09:39 PM
I've actually gone through a past-life regression session, which was one of the most interesting things I've ever experienced. I did this on my birthday.

Not only did I go into a life 2000 years ago as a greek soldier/barbarian... I also experienced a life of a pioneer girl who was brutally murdered by Cherokee...

The most interesting part was not the deaths... But the actual Life in between Lives.

Read the book Journey of Souls by Michael Newton... One of the most fascinating books that I've ever read... In fact it inspired me to do the past life journey.

So I truly have ZERO doubt that we keep incarnating until we finally get all our lessons learned.
Posted via Mobile Device

This is when Chris Rock says "Are you out of your mind????"
Posted via Mobile Device

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 10:10 PM
The Diddler arranges the largest sweet sixteen party ever held in Gotham City for his granddaughter. Then takes her out for the "biggest steak in town"
Posted via Mobile Device

BATMAN III
RISE OF THE DIDDLER
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv252/raisedonriots/LuckyCharms2.png

Frankie
07-09-2009, 10:14 PM
O.M. G. I'm a teeny minority in that poll.

ROFL
Was that you, future cockroach?

Frankie
07-09-2009, 10:16 PM
Good works will not bring you faith, but faith will bring good works

Osama Bin Laden, by all indications, has faith. How do you explain that?

Frankie
07-09-2009, 10:19 PM
Not only did I go into a life 2000 years ago as a greek soldier/barbarian... I also experienced a life of a pioneer girl who was brutally murdered by Cherokee...

The most interesting part was not the deaths... But the actual Life in between Lives.

Did you experience the deaths? If so how do you know, if you were 'under.'

Frankie
07-09-2009, 10:22 PM
You'd be bear shit.
Posted via Mobile Device

Damn you gave away the punchline.

FAX
07-09-2009, 10:49 PM
Not long after he became the Buddha, Siddhartha said, "The human condition is made up of suffering and only years of aesthetic practices will lead to a path that enables a state of infinite fulfillment to be attained. This state is known as enlightenment and illumination."

Problem is that, for the average little marshmallow sugary Easter bird, more than one lifetime of "aesthetic practices" is necessary.

FAX

FAX
07-09-2009, 11:09 PM
One more Buddhist thingy ... their idea of "reincarnation" isn't exactly the Western concept as it is typically understood. For example, instead of the entire "personality" being reincarnated, only the essence of the personality's consciousness is. This is why you have no past life "recall" as such. Rather, the reborn consciousness is like air being moved from one room to another. The air in the second room isn't exactly the same air that was in the first one ... but it's not altogether different either. However, the air has the same "essence". It is this "essence" that is reborn in the new earthly container ... not the entire, unique personality.

So, like water evaporates to return as a liquid, our souls evaporate, join with the greater consciousness, then return ... not exactly the same, but not totally different, either.

FAX

alnorth
07-10-2009, 12:12 AM
I could have voted for two options: #1 (which interestingly only says "makes as much sense as" without an actual statement of faith), and either #2 or #4.

I could see random reincarnation or oblivion. However, since I dont believe in any kind of God, and since if my conciousness did live on in a new form my memory would be wiped anyway (so its not really even "me" anymore), that seems to imply oblivion either way. So, I'd vote #1 and #4. Since you can only vote for one option, I'll go with #4.

Ari Chi3fs
07-10-2009, 09:53 AM
Did you experience the deaths? If so how do you know, if you were 'under.'

You are actually extremely alert... hypnosis isn't necessarily "under"...

in fact, you get to such a relaxed state, which took NEARLY an hour... then there is a process to really turn off your conscious, logical mind... making it like a mist/fog and then it blows away... leaving you to communicate clearly with your superconscious.

Our brains have a "firewall" to protect us from past memories, so that we don't dream horrible dreams about previous lives all of the time... mine is a bit faulty, because I dream of past life shit all of the time.

which, is why I wanted to do this session. It was completely bad ass.

Here is teh Google book preview of that book "Journey of SOuls"

http://is.gd/1tCdR