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View Full Version : Football 3-4 Weirdness: a somewhat interesting take.


Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 05:39 PM
The old saying, ďActions speak louder than words,Ē is true, especially in sports.

In the NBA, after coach Phil Jackson won his sixth league title with the Bulls, everyone wanted to try to run his triangle offense. But that experiment didnít last long because players had to be able to execute it.

In the NFL, the bar has been set with the recent success of the Cowboys, Patriots, Ravens, Chargers and Steelersí 3-4 defenses, and now it has become vogue to run the scheme. As many as 15 teams are either making the switch or infusing elements of the 3-4 defense.

Itís one thing to talk the talk, but can transitioning teams walk the walk? Here are five key ingredients that will make or break the transition to the 3-4:

1. Football IQ: The 3-4 requires players to have a reasonable football IQ, and it canít be mastered overnight, even if the defensive coordinator knows the scheme like the back of his hand. The Tampa 2 was the last trendy defense to take the NFL by storm, but for all its wonderment, the byproduct was turning players into robots.

2. Elephant: This is the NFLís equivalent of a hybrid. He is part defensive end, part linebacker, and is athletic enough to have limited coverage skills and physical enough to dominate an offensive tackle. DeMarcus Ware, Adalius Thomas, Terrell Suggs, Shawne Merriman and LaMarr Woodley are examples.

3. Sidekick: This is another outside linebacker (like Greg Ellis, Mike Vrabel, Shaun Phillips and James Harrison) who has coverage skills but also can dominate a running back and occasionally beat an offensive tackle.

4. Power pig: A 3-4 defense must have a nose guard who commands a double team on run plays. He has to be the master between the guards.

5. The 5 Techniques: You need two defensive ends who can control the line of scrimmage. They need to be able to beat one-on-one matchups on pass plays but must be dominant in stopping the run.

Does your team have what it takes to make the transition? What pieces is your team missing?

Leave a comment below or send me a tweet @jamiedukes.

Ebolapox
07-09-2009, 05:46 PM
s'not new information.

RustShack
07-09-2009, 05:47 PM
So basically what the "Chiefs Planet Experts" have been saying since the 3-4 topic came up, this is just written in a more queer and "professional" way.

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 05:50 PM
So basically what the "Chiefs Planet Experts" have been saying since the 3-4 topic came up, this is just written in a more queer and "professional" way.

ROFL

JD10367
07-09-2009, 06:02 PM
"The 3-4 requires players to have a reasonable football IQ"? Whew! The 15 head coaches running the 4-3 will breathe a huge sigh of relief from that gem of wisdom, knowing now that they can throw 11 frigging morons on the field. :shrug:

Buehler445
07-09-2009, 06:22 PM
Jamie Dukes is a dumbfuck.

IIRC, he recently said that if he were to take any player to build around it would be Vick. At least I think it was him.

This stuff is pretty common sense.
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Buehler445
07-09-2009, 06:23 PM
"The 3-4 requires players to have a reasonable football IQ"? Whew! The 15 head coaches running the 4-3 will breathe a huge sigh of relief from that gem of wisdom, knowing now that they can throw 11 frigging morons on the field. :shrug:

Coincidentally, with the Herm era, we determined that the coach should have some football IQ also.

Just FYI.
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Basileus777
07-09-2009, 06:26 PM
Jamie Dukes is a dumbfuck.

IIRC, he recently said that if he were to take any player to build around it would be Vick. At least I think it was him.

This stuff is pretty common sense.
Posted via Mobile Device

It was Dukes who said that. He's probably the dumbest motherfucker on sports television, and that's saying a lot.

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 06:27 PM
"The 3-4 requires players to have a reasonable football IQ"? Whew! The 15 head coaches running the 4-3 will breathe a huge sigh of relief from that gem of wisdom, knowing now that they can throw 11 frigging morons on the field. :shrug:

LMAO

Raised On Riots
07-09-2009, 06:29 PM
So, who's our "Power Pig" again?

LMAO

Extra Point
07-09-2009, 06:39 PM
Dorsey needs to eat a Hell of a lot more, these days.

Fruit Ninja
07-09-2009, 06:42 PM
Phil won the title with the triangle 10 times! Need to add them in there as well. He's running the same system 20 years later and its still working. :)

Easy 6
07-09-2009, 07:45 PM
The 'Power Pig' is the position that worries me most on D, outside of Edwards there isnt anyone built to command double teams.

The very successful 3-4 teams have that Hoss at NT...Pats, Pitt, Dolts etc. I hope Pendergast doesnt try to run it with lighter players like in AZ, even with a unique talent like Dockett, they were hit & miss against the run.

I think Edwards + 20 pounds would do the trick...he has the frame to add that much, is known to be ox-strong & is only going into his eighth year.

Gotta be able to cause that traffic jam in the middle.

JD10367
07-09-2009, 09:52 PM
Interesting... look who he ranks #6.

http://www.profootballcentral.com/2009/07/02/the-top-five-best-3-4-defensive-ends-in-the-nfl/

The Top Five: Best 3-4 Defensive Ends in the NFL
July 2nd, 2009
By Bob Cunningham

The 3-4 defensive end is an odd breed.

They’re basically just more athletic 4-3 defensive tackles. The must be big, strong, and able to hold at the point of attack. However in the same play, they’re expected to be quick and athletic enough to make sure no one gets out around them.

With a couple teams switching to the 3-4 every couple years or so, it’s a position that’s in much higher demand and should see a real boom over the next 5-10 years, that is until the 3-4 fades out in obscurity again.

Let’s not forget that the 3-4 is just a fade coming back around.

Anyway, it’s certainly relevant enough in today’s NFL to recognize the men who do it best.

Honorable Mention: Glenn Dorsey (Kansas City Chiefs)

16 games started, 1 sack, 1 forced fumble, 32 tackles

No, Glenn Dorsey has not yet taken a single snap from the defensive end position. Yes, all of those stats are from playing defensive tackle in the 4-3. No, I don’t think I’m crazy.

Call it a hunch, but I believe Glenn Dorsey will be one of the best 3-4 defensive ends in the game. He translates so well and it seems to be the position he’s built to play.

At 6′2 and 316 pounds, Dorsey will need to lose five or 10 pounds, and he’s a little short, but he’s so athletic for a man his size. Not to mention the sheer brute strength that he brings to his game.

Watch out for Glenn Dorsey, he’s going to turn some heads.

5. Darnell Dockett (Arizona Cardinals)

79 games started, 19 sacks, 3 INT, 6 forced fumbles, 1 TD, 173 tackles, 1-time Pro Bowler

At 6′4 and 295 pounds, Dockett is the perfect size to take over the defensive end spot in the newly implimented 3-4 defense that will be run in the desert this year.

Like Dorsey, Dockett has not played the position yet, but all signs point to him finding great success in it.

Dockett found success as a defensive tackle in the 4-3, even tying Reggie White’s Super Bowl record with three sacks in a losing effort to the Pittsburgh Steelers this past year.

While playing 3-4 defensive end is not exactly the same, it is close enough for me to prophecize without hesitation that Dockett will do just fine.

4. Luis Castillo (San Diego Chargers)

48 games started, 14.5 sacks, 2 INT, 2 forced fumbles, 116 tackles

Castillo is big, he’s physical, he’s athletic, and he knows how to get into the backfield and disrupt a play.

Unfortunately, he’s never healthy long enough to show what he can really do.

Over the past three years, he’s missed a total of 13 games, nearly an entire season’s worth. Even last year he played in 15 games, but he was banged up throughout the year and the entire defense had a bad season.

If Castillo can find a way to stay healthy, he could be the best in the game. He’s still young (26), so there’s still time to turn it around and show the league, and everyone else, that he is the best.

However until then, all we have to go on is flashes of talent in between visits to the sideline and to the trainer.

3. Ty Warren (New England Patriots)

80 games started, 19.5 sacks, 4 forced fumbles, 221 tackles, 1 safety

Because of Vince Wilfork and Richard Seymour (expect to see his name again), Warren goes fairly unnoticed. But let’s be honest, most 3-4 defensive ends do.

Most think that he’s just another Bill Belichik guy who outside of New England probably wouldn’t perform as well, and therefore gets overlooked.

However at 6′5 and 300 pounds, Warren is very athletic and, like most Belichik players, extremely football-smart.

Since his rookie year he’s always had at least one sack, and has reached 7.5 in ‘06. Also since his rookie year, he’s only missed four games.

He’s big, strong, athletic, smart, and maybe most importantly of all he’s reliable.

2. Aaron Smith (Pittsburgh Steelers)

137 games started, 42 sacks, 1 INT, 7 forced fumbles, 316 tackles, 1-time Pro Bowler

Whenever I see lists similar to this, Aaron Smith is somehow lost in the shuffle.

What some people outside of Pittsburgh don’t realize is that this guy has been a catalyst to the Steelers defensive success for the past 10 years.

He’s very good at shutting down the edge, and even getting some pressure on the quarterback when he has to. Since taking over the starting job in 2000, he has not had less than two sacks in a season, and even reached eight sacks twice (once in ‘01 and again in ‘04).

Also since 2001, he’s only missed five games total. All of his games missed came in 2007 when he suffered an injury.

He’s not a flashy guy by any means, but he gets the job done and even in his older age continues to get it done.

1. Richard Seymour (New England Patriots)

105 games started, 39 sacks, 2 INTs, 3 forced fumbles, 1 TD, 227 tackles, 5-time Pro Bowler and 3-time All-Pro

This was a pretty obvious and easy choice, considering that Seymour will most likely find his way to the Hall of Fame someday.

Seymour is the prototype for defensive ends in the 3-4, and at 6′6, 310 pounds, why wouldn’t he be?

From ‘02-’06, Seymour made the Pro Bowl every year, while making the All-Pro team from ‘03-’05. That kind of streak of excellence has not been seen from a 3-4 defensive end, or most any other player for that matter.

Don’t start thinking that Seymour is in the downward part of his career either. Last season, in 15 games, he recorded eight sacks. Also, he’ll only be turning 30 this year.

Seymour will be the guy that all aspiring 3-4 defensive ends will watch. He will be the example for generations to come.