Soldier You Cant Smoke. Now get 4 more full clips for that rifle

[HonestChieffan]

Gotta love it. Tell a soldier he cant have a smoke but he can take a 150 grain lead bullet.

By Gregg Zoroya, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON — Pentagon health experts are urging Defense Secretary Robert Gates to ban the use of tobacco by troops and end its sale on military property, a change that could dramatically alter a culture intertwined with smoking.
Jack Smith, head of the Pentagon's office of clinical and program policy, says he will recommend that Gates adopt proposals by a federal study that cites rising tobacco use and higher costs for the Pentagon and Department of Veterans Affairs as reasons for the ban.

The study by the Institute of Medicine, requested by the VA and Pentagon, calls for a phased-in ban over a period of years, perhaps up to 20. "We'll certainly be taking that recommendation forward," Smith says.

A tobacco ban would confront a military culture, the report says, in which "the image of the battle-weary soldier in fatigues and helmet, fighting for his country, has frequently included his lit cigarette."

Also, the report said, troops worn out by repeated deployments often rely on cigarettes as a "stress reliever." The study found that tobacco use in the military increased after the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan began.


Pentagon spokeswoman Cynthia Smith said the department supports a smoke-free military "and believes it is achievable." She declined to elaborate on any possible ban.

One in three servicemembers use tobacco, the report says, compared with one in five adult Americans. The heaviest smokers are soldiers and Marines, who have done most of the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, the study says. About 37% of soldiers use tobacco and 36% of Marines. Combat veterans are 50% more likely to use tobacco than troops who haven't seen combat.

Tobacco use costs the Pentagon $846 million a year in medical care and lost productivity, says the report, which used older data. The Department of Veterans Affairs spends up to $6 billion in treatments for tobacco-related illnesses, says the study, which was released late last month.

Along with a phased-in ban, the report recommends requiring new officers and enlisted personnel to be tobacco-free, eliminating tobacco use on military installations, ships and aircraft, expanding treatment programs and eliminating the sale of tobacco on military property. "Any tobacco use while in uniform should be prohibited," the study says.

The military complicates attempts to curb tobacco use by subsidizing tobacco products for troops who buy them at base exchanges and commissaries, says Kenneth Kizer, a committee member and architect of California's anti-tobacco program.

Seventy percent of profits from tobacco sales — $88 million in 2005 — pays for recreation and family support programs, the study stays.

Strong leadership could make the military tobacco-free in five to 10 years, Kizer says. President Obama, he says, could set an example for the military by ending his own smoking habit once and for all. Last month, Obama said he is "95% cured" but "there are times when I mess up" and smoke.

[Halfcan]

ban smoking and wars too

[KC Dan]

ban our freedoms.....

[Reaper16]

I wonder what that will do for morale. Some soldiers might well need their drug of choice to deal with the rigors of war.

[Uncle_Ted]

Wow, I finally found an issue where I agree with DishonestChieffan ...

[Mr. Flopnuts]

FFS, this country is going to hell. We're begging to become more British. Thomas Jefferson is rolling over in his grave.

[Ultra Peanut]

Gotta love it. Tell a soldier he cant have a smoke but he can take a 150 grain lead bullet.Ideally, he won't do either.

[petegz28]

JFC....you can't smoke but you can go die for us........fucking politicians

[listopencil]

Wow, that's fucking stupid.

[BucEyedPea]

FFS, this country is going to hell. We're begging to become more British. Thomas Jefferson is rolling over in his grave.

And Hamilton's ghost is going back and forth from the White House to the Capitol Building.

[Ultra Peanut]

Here's the thing, though. If you really want to ~SUPPORT ARE TROOP~, how'sabout not being cool with them getting shipped off to die for no reason?

Further, if you really cared about them, you'd want them to have sufficient care after their service and, perhaps even more importantly, be the slightest bit interested in bettering the communities from which they hail and providing them with better opportunities pre- and post-enlistment.

[Reaper16]

Here's the thing, though. If you really want to ~SUPPORT ARE TROOP~, how'sabout not being cool with them getting shipped off to die for no reason?

Further, if you really cared about them, you'd want them to have sufficient care after their service and, perhaps even more importantly, be the slightest bit interested in bettering the communities from which they hail and providing them with better opportunities pre- and post-enlistment.
Nah. Bootstraps, etc.

[Saulbadguy]

Solid Snake smokes...after all, he is the ultimate soldier.

[stevieray]

Here's the thing, though. If you really want to ~SUPPORT ARE TROOP~, how'sabout not being cool with them getting shipped off to die for no reason?

Further, if you really cared about them, you'd want them to have sufficient care after their service and, perhaps even more importantly, be the slightest bit interested in bettering the communities from which they hail and providing them with better opportunities pre- and post-enlistment.

They'd have to call it be serviced.

[KILLER_CLOWN]

it's Neofreedom, have to love it.

[wild1]

stupid.

by the way rifles haven't been using "clips" for a long time now...

[CrazyCoffey]

can we ban war first?

wait, a solider risks his/her life for this country and we want to tell him/her if the should smoke or not?

WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO?????

There isn't a solider one, that doesn't know that smoking is bad, but after they risk their life in another country for our countries directives, shouldn't they be allowed to smoke if they fucking want to?

[DenverChief]

can we ban war first?

wait, a solider risks his/her life for this country and we want to tell him/her if the should smoke or not?

WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO?????

There isn't a solider one, that doesn't know that smoking is bad, but after they risk their life in another country for our countries directives, shouldn't they be allowed to smoke if they ****ing want to?

bingo...I think I'll write my congressman

[KCChiefsMan]

why dont they just go after the damn tobacco companies and make them make cigs less addicting. But that would go against this country's best interests...money.

[Earthling]

Christ. When I was in I coulldn't drink in many states nor could I vote for the Commander in Chief. Too young and immature I guess but old enough to go to Nam and kill. Cigarette ban..? No friggin' way.

[HonestChieffan]

Liberals always know better than individuals what individuals can,and should do.

[oldandslow]

Liberals always know better than individuals what individuals can,and should do.

Don't know that "pentagon experts" are necessarily liberal.

Having said that - This is just silly.

[GoChiefs]

Ban beer, too. And porn.

[Bowser]

Ban beer, too. And porn.

Now that's just crazy talk.

[JohnnyV13]

I'm not sure this ban is entirely irrational.

Basically, it would be the government saying that we won't hire you as a soldier if you smoke while in uniform. Why is this a problem?

There is certainly some rational basis for this "employment" policy. 1) studies which show cigarette smoking increases military costs. and 2) performance impacts. I think its fairly common sense that ashtrays in jet fighters are a pretty ridiculous idea. (And, btw, there ARE ashtrays in, at least, some fighters (i recall a controversy over the design costs for ashtrays in the F/A-18 hornet).

Imagine the scenario..... Fighter pilot misses enemy contacts because said fighter pilot was too busy lighting up their cigarette to get a visual on enemy flying stealth technology craft. Btw, the no. 1 critical factor for winning Air to Air engagements is detecting the enemy first.

Certainly, not every smoker is this stupid, but take a group of smokers vs.non-smokers and guess who is more likely to make these kinds of mistakes? Its sort of like the distraction caused by cell phones in cars. When these guys are operating multi-million dollar equipment, restricting their operation to non-smokers doesn't seem unreasonable.

As for ground pounders, Viet Cong could often detect american units in the jungle due to the scent of cigarette smoke. Seriously, allowing troops in the field to smoke is STUPID.

[SportsRacer]

I'd hate for a guy who has to walk, run and crawl long distances whilst carrying heavy armor, weapons and equipment to not get a chance to clog his lungs with tar.

[frazod]

Wow. Take some 19 year old kid, working a brutal dangerous job for shit pay on the other side of the world and now some anti-smoking fascist cocksuckers would deny him the simple pleasure of a cigarette?

Maybe the fucking scumbags who are behind this should grab a rifle and go to Afghanistan, spend a couple of nights on a base perimeter surrounded by people trying to kill them, and then see if they don't want to relax with a cigarette.

Fuck I hate what this country has become.

[Reaper16]

New, incendiary discussion topic:

Cigarettes & suicide... what's the difference? GO!

[frazod]

I'd hate for a guy who has to walk, run and crawl long distances whilst carrying heavy armor, weapons and equipment to not get a chance to clog his lungs with tar.

Boy, it sure was a shame we lost World War II because so many people smoked. If only our troops had been healthy. :shake:

[SportsRacer]

Boy, it sure was a shame we lost World War II because so many people smoked. If only our troops had been healthy. :shake:

I'm just saying, maybe it's for the soldiers' own health and well-being and not some liberal conspiracy to make their lives miserable.

But it's much more fun to get all pissed about some supposed injustice, so carry on.

[frazod]

New, incendiary discussion topic:

Cigarettes & suicide... what's the difference? GO!

Well, if I wanted to off myself, I'd find a method that worked faster than five or six decades.

But that's just me.

[frazod]

I'm just saying, maybe it's for the soldiers' own health and well-being and not some liberal conspiracy to make their lives miserable.

But it's much more fun to get all pissed about some supposed injustice, so carry on.

You're a fucking idiot.

If these pricks cared about the soldiers' health and well-being perhaps they could stop sending them into harm's way at the drop of a hat, or pay them enough money that they don't have to get food stamps to feed their families.

Also, some of the most robust and toughest people I ever knew smoked like chimneys.

Somehow I'm guessing you've never worn a uniform.

[Reaper16]

If these pricks cared about the soldiers' health and well-being perhaps they could stop sending them into harm's way at the drop of a hat, or pay them enough money that they don't have to get food stamps to feel their families.

:clap:

[frazod]

Uh, that's "feed" their families, not "feel" their families.

I hate when somebody quotes my typos. :doh!:

[JohnnyV13]

Wow. Take some 19 year old kid, working a brutal dangerous job for shit pay on the other side of the world and now some anti-smoking fascist one who sucks the peniss would deny him the simple pleasure of a cigarette?

Maybe the ****ing scumbags who are behind this should grab a rifle and go to Afghanistan, spend a couple of nights on a base perimeter surrounded by people trying to kill them, and then see if they don't want to relax with a cigarette.

**** I hate what this country has become.

I suppose its an anti-smoking, fascist conspiricy that causes sports teams to insist their athletes don't smoke. I'm sure it has nothing to do with athletic performance. I mean, those evil trainers and draconian coaches are obviously control freaks who want to dictate their irrational beliefs onto their players.

Obviously, physical fitness has nothing to do with the performance of troops in the field. Endurance, and proper attention to the equipment they operate, are totally irrelevant to soldiers. All the physical conditioning drills in basic training are simply for the jollies of drill sergeants.

Who should criticize Usain Bolt if he wants to relax after the pressures of the Olympics by smoking a carton of cigarettes? The anti smoking fascists of course! (I have less problem with an athlete smoking cigarettes, because, who wins sporting events has no bearing on me. Team owners, coaches and olympic sponsors, have a different view).

When my tax dollars pay for the equipment that soldiers operate, is it unreasonable for me to expect they do so in a manner most likely to maximize performance?

[JohnnyV13]

Boy, it sure was a shame we lost World War II because so many people smoked. If only our troops had been healthy.

Gosh, Babe Ruth smoked, drank, ate like a pig and never lifted weights. Obviously, these things make no difference to athletic performance. Therefore, Albert Pujols should do the same things. The Cardinals would be totally fascist to make his contract conditional upon maintaining his health.

Just like the Browns were fascist to expect Kellen Winslow Jr. not to perform wheelies on his motorcycle, or teams who restrict their players from participating in risky pasttimes in their contracts. These things are un american.

[jAZ]

I doubt this happens, but the military is about the only place that could get away with it only because it's the military.

[JohnnyV13]

You're a ****ing idiot.

If these pricks cared about the soldiers' health and well-being perhaps they could stop sending them into harm's way at the drop of a hat, or pay them enough money that they don't have to get food stamps to feed their families.

Also, some of the most robust and toughest people I ever knew smoked like chimneys.

Somehow I'm guessing you've never worn a uniform.

I can certainly agree that perhaps we should pay soldiers more. In fact, we could keep military expenditures flat and increase pay by investing more in personnel and less in weapon systems. Of course, the defense contractors don't like that idea.

As for, not sending them in harms way at the drop of a hat, well...that's a sin that both democratic and republican administrations have done. I think its part of the power intoxication that happens to a president.

As for your "robust and tough" people that "smoke like chimenys", I'd like to see them run a brutally strenuous obstacle course in full gear against a group of similarly genetically gifted people, with comparable training, who DON'T smoke like chimenys. Then have them fight a hand to hand engagement. I'll guarentee you, that your "robust and tough" guys will break like whiney bitches.

Why? Because 90% of "clutch" athletic performance has to do with an endurance edge.

[Hog Farmer]

I'm not sure this ban is entirely irrational.

Basically, it would be the government saying that we won't hire you as a soldier if you smoke while in uniform. Why is this a problem?

There is certainly some rational basis for this "employment" policy. 1) studies which show cigarette smoking increases military costs. and 2) performance impacts. I think its fairly common sense that ashtrays in jet fighters are a pretty ridiculous idea. (And, btw, there ARE ashtrays in, at least, some fighters (i recall a controversy over the design costs for ashtrays in the F/A-18 hornet).

Imagine the scenario..... Fighter pilot misses enemy contacts because said fighter pilot was too busy lighting up their cigarette to get a visual on enemy flying stealth technology craft. Btw, the no. 1 critical factor for winning Air to Air engagements is detecting the enemy first.

Certainly, not every smoker is this stupid, but take a group of smokers vs.non-smokers and guess who is more likely to make these kinds of mistakes? Its sort of like the distraction caused by cell phones in cars. When these guys are operating multi-million dollar equipment, restricting their operation to non-smokers doesn't seem unreasonable.

As for ground pounders, Viet Cong could often detect american units in the jungle due to the scent of cigarette smoke. Seriously, allowing troops in the field to smoke is STUPID.


Exactly! Smoking while in combat is detrimental to you and your fellow troops. An enemy sniper loves nothing more than a cigarrette burning in the night, all he has to do is wait for the cig to light up as a puff is taken and one shot ,one kill. Also that shit can be smelled 1/2 mile away.

Also ,90% of our troops are less than 30 years old and they need to have the habit taken away before it becomes a lifetime addiction.

Also when they get out they can just move to California and smoke pot!

[frazod]

I can certainly agree that perhaps we should pay soldiers more. In fact, we could keep military expenditures flat and increase pay by investing more in personnel and less in weapon systems. Of course, the defense contractors don't like that idea.

As for, not sending them in harms way at the drop of a hat, well...that's a sin that both democratic and republican administrations have done. I think its part of the power intoxication that happens to a president.

As for your "robust and tough" people that "smoke like chimenys", I'd like to see them run a brutally strenuous obstacle course in full gear against a group of similarly genetically gifted people, with comparable training, who DON'T smoke like chimenys. Then have them fight a hand to hand engagement. I'll guarentee you, that your "robust and tough" guys will break like whiney bitches.

Why? Because 90% of "clutch" athletic performance has to do with an endurance edge.

LMAO

Break like whiney bitches. What a wonderful little metrosexual dreamworld you live in.

You "guarentee" nothing, clown. If you'd ever served (which you obviously haven't) you WOULD have seen guys do these things. I know you've been fully indoctrinated to believe that smoking will instantly kill, but really, the effects are cumulative and take years to have an adverse impact (unless the smoker in question is a wimp to begin with). Do you really think a 19 year old Marine in peak physical condition will be rendered a wheezing wimp because he smokes? Are you really that dumb? Boy, I sure wish I could be as "unhealthy" as I was back when I was 20, smoked a pack and half a day and drank like a fish.

And it's funny how you cite BABE RUTH as an example for your stupid little comparison. Yeah, Babe never accomplished anything, did he?

And finally, yes, it is unreasonable for you sit back sipping on your nonfat soy latte and try to deny some soldier enduring horrible conditions fighting for your rights his right to have a smoke. Or are you worried about secondhand smoke drifting halfway around the world?

I'm sorry if I've upset you or anything. Go have a mango smoothy and a manicure, I'm sure that will make it all better.

[KILLER_CLOWN]

LMAO

Break like whiney bitches. What a wonderful little metrosexual dreamworld you live in.

You "guarentee" nothing, clown. If you'd ever served (which you obviously haven't) you WOULD have seen guys do these things. I know you've been fully indoctrinated to believe that smoking will instantly kill, but really, the effects are cumulative and take years to have an adverse impact (unless the smoker in question is a wimp to begin with). Do you really think a 19 year old Marine in peak physical condition will be rendered a wheezing wimp because he smokes? Are you really that dumb? Boy, I sure wish I could be as "unhealthy" as I was back when I was 20, smoked a pack and half a day and drank like a fish.

And it's funny how you cite BABE RUTH as an example for your stupid little comparison. Yeah, Babe never accomplished anything, did he?

And finally, yes, it is unreasonable for you sit back sipping on your nonfat soy latte and try to deny some soldier enduring horrible conditions fighting for your rights his right to have a smoke. Or are you worried about secondhand smoke drifting halfway around the world?

I'm sorry if I've upset you or anything. Go have a mango smoothy and a manicure, I'm sure that will make it all better.

ROFL

[stevieray]

It's their damn choice to smoke or not.. this is what happens when a self loathing nation tries to carry other's crosses, instead of their own.

[Garcia Bronco]

It's their damn choice to smoke or not.. this is what happens when a self loathing nation tries to carry other's crosses, instead of their own.

Well put

[KcFanInGA]

Let em smoke. With what these men and women risk, who are we to stop them?

[GoChiefs]

Frazod has proved his worth once again.

I'd give rep if the board wasn't fucked up.

[dirk digler]

I see both sides of this issue because alot of corporations are not allowing people to smoke in their offices or properties because of health care costs and promoting wellness. Our company does this.

I think the military could come up with a reasonable proposal such as if you are state side no smoking but if you are over seas fighting or in a FOB you can smoke as much as you want.

I always thought it was stupid that you could give up your life for your country but couldn't buy alcohol.

[Garcia Bronco]

I see both sides of this issue because alot of corporations are not allowing people to smoke in their offices or properties because of health care costs and promoting wellness. Our company does this.

I think the military could come up with a reasonable proposal such as if you are state side no smoking but if you are over seas fighting or in a FOB you can smoke as much as you want.

I always thought it was stupid that you could give up your life for your country but couldn't buy alcohol.

All well and good except it's a complete violation of their autonomy.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

LMAO

Break like whiney bitches. What a wonderful little metrosexual dreamworld you live in.

You "guarentee" nothing, clown. If you'd ever served (which you obviously haven't) you WOULD have seen guys do these things. I know you've been fully indoctrinated to believe that smoking will instantly kill, but really, the effects are cumulative and take years to have an adverse impact (unless the smoker in question is a wimp to begin with). Do you really think a 19 year old Marine in peak physical condition will be rendered a wheezing wimp because he smokes? Are you really that dumb? Boy, I sure wish I could be as "unhealthy" as I was back when I was 20, smoked a pack and half a day and drank like a fish.

And it's funny how you cite BABE RUTH as an example for your stupid little comparison. Yeah, Babe never accomplished anything, did he?

And finally, yes, it is unreasonable for you sit back sipping on your nonfat soy latte and try to deny some soldier enduring horrible conditions fighting for your rights his right to have a smoke. Or are you worried about secondhand smoke drifting halfway around the world?

I'm sorry if I've upset you or anything. Go have a mango smoothy and a manicure, I'm sure that will make it all better.



LMAO Thanks. Now I don't have to bother.

[petegz28]

LMAO

Break like whiney bitches. What a wonderful little metrosexual dreamworld you live in.

You "guarentee" nothing, clown. If you'd ever served (which you obviously haven't) you WOULD have seen guys do these things. I know you've been fully indoctrinated to believe that smoking will instantly kill, but really, the effects are cumulative and take years to have an adverse impact (unless the smoker in question is a wimp to begin with). Do you really think a 19 year old Marine in peak physical condition will be rendered a wheezing wimp because he smokes? Are you really that dumb? Boy, I sure wish I could be as "unhealthy" as I was back when I was 20, smoked a pack and half a day and drank like a fish.

And it's funny how you cite BABE RUTH as an example for your stupid little comparison. Yeah, Babe never accomplished anything, did he?

And finally, yes, it is unreasonable for you sit back sipping on your nonfat soy latte and try to deny some soldier enduring horrible conditions fighting for your rights his right to have a smoke. Or are you worried about secondhand smoke drifting halfway around the world?

I'm sorry if I've upset you or anything. Go have a mango smoothy and a manicure, I'm sure that will make it all better.


REP!!!

[dirk digler]

All well and good except it's a complete violation of their autonomy.

In the military there is no such thing as autonomy...duh

[JohnnyV13]

LMAO

And finally, yes, it is unreasonable for you sit back sipping on your nonfat soy latte and try to deny some soldier enduring horrible conditions fighting for your rights his right to have a smoke. .

I never realized your ardent support for openly gay people to serve in the military. But, with your ridiculous posturing, no one is really surprised.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I never realized your ardent support for openly gay people to serve in the military. But, with your ridiculous posturing, no one is really surprised.

:spock:

[frazod]

I never realized your ardent support for openly gay people to serve in the military. But, with your ridiculous posturing, no one is really surprised.

Wow, you had a whole day to think of a response and that's all you got?

I guess we can add "moron" to the list of your finely-honed skills. LMAO

Hey, I think somebody may be smoking a cigarette within a 100 miles of you. You'd better seek shelter immediately!

[JohnnyV13]

Wow, you had a whole day to think of a response and that's all you got?

I guess we can add "moron" to the list of your finely-honed skills. LMAO

Hey, I think somebody may be smoking a cigarette within a 100 miles of you. You'd better seek shelter immediately!

Naw, couldn't get back into the thread. CP kept saying the administrator had banned my account even though it let me into other threads. Sometimes it happens. Other times I can access certain pages of a thread, but am "banned" from other pages. Its weird.

As for this "response" it was really done to set up a sucker punch. Since you over-reacted to "whiney bitches", I thought you'd fall for this one too.

Basically, the idea was to get you to refute that and make some kind of metrosexual/homosexual attack. Then I could simply thank you for confirming that your position had nothing to do with rights (since, if your argument was based on libertarin notions of liberty, then soldiers having gay sex should be just as protected as smoking). I think it would have had a better chance of succeeding if I could have posted it while you were still mad. But, the problem is it really didn't have textual support so was somewhat discontinuous.

If I wished to trade insults with you, I would have pointed out how pathetic it was that, years later, you are still trying to justify your failure to maximize your ability while you were in (apparently) the marines.

I would have then pointed out how easily you blew your cool at slight provocation, and noted that the supposed mental strength and discipline that one is supposed to gain from enlistment didn't seem to take in your case. I would have then speculated that your over-reaction was because "times were tough" and assurred you that you should just persevere and that one fine day someone would need their clogged toilet bowl licked clean, and you would once again enjoy three consecutive hours of gainful employment.

Of course, all of that would be one-upsmanship BS. And, I have to admit, your metrosexual attack was pretty funny.

But, to get to the core factual dispute: you seem to think smoking has no real detrimental affect on performance, and then you make the emotional "rights" argument.

My position is that smoking does have detrimental affects on performance, and think that an employer should have the right to freely choose what kind of behavior and capability comprises a qualified candidate.

I think your best argument is to point out how a blanket ban seems unrelated to performance, and, consequently, reveals how the intent is simply an attack on rights rather than any attempt to save tax dollars in military health benefits or improve performance.

[Boiled Chicken]

Christ. When I was in I coulldn't drink in many states nor could I vote for the Commander in Chief. Too young and immature I guess but old enough to go to Nam and kill. Cigarette ban..? No friggin' way.

Speaking of the Commander in Chief, does anyone know if this ban would affect the President? I would assume so, if he's still smoking.

[frazod]

Naw, couldn't get back into the thread. CP kept saying the administrator had banned my account even though it let me into other threads. Sometimes it happens. Other times I can access certain pages of a thread, but am "banned" from other pages. Its weird.

As for this "response" it was really done to set up a sucker punch. Since you over-reacted to "whiney bitches", I thought you'd fall for this one too.

Basically, the idea was to get you to refute that and make some kind of metrosexual/homosexual attack. Then I could simply thank you for confirming that your position had nothing to do with rights (since, if your argument was based on libertarin notions of liberty, then soldiers having gay sex should be just as protected as smoking). I think it would have had a better chance of succeeding if I could have posted it while you were still mad. But, the problem is it really didn't have textual support so was somewhat discontinuous.

If I wished to trade insults with you, I would have pointed out how pathetic it was that, years later, you are still trying to justify your failure to maximize your ability while you were in (apparently) the marines.

I would have then pointed out how easily you blew your cool at slight provocation, and noted that the supposed mental strength and discipline that one is supposed to gain from enlistment didn't seem to take in your case. I would have then speculated that your over-reaction was because "times were tough" and assurred you that you should just persevere and that one fine day someone would need their clogged toilet bowl licked clean, and you would once again enjoy three consecutive hours of gainful employment.

Of course, all of that would be one-upsmanship BS. And, I have to admit, your metrosexual attack was pretty funny.

But, to get to the core factual dispute: you seem to think smoking has no real detrimental affect on performance, and then you make the emotional "rights" argument.

My position is that smoking does have detrimental affects on performance, and think that an employer should have the right to freely choose what kind of behavior and capability comprises a qualified candidate.

I think your best argument is to point out how a blanket ban seems unrelated to performance, and, consequently, reveals how the intent is simply an attack on rights rather than any attempt to save tax dollars in military health benefits or improve performance.

Wow. I think you were probably better off sticking with short, stupid responses.

I'm not really sure what to take away from this chaotic shotgun blast of idiocy, other than (a) you seem to fancy yourself as some sort of elitist intellectual, yet you write and spell like a high school dropout; (b) you seem to equate smoking with gay sex; and (c) you don't seem to have much respect for people in the military (which is okay, since I'm sure they wouldn't have much respect for you, either). Beyond that, you just seem to be same indoctrinated sheep I pegged you for earlier.

Is there anything else you'd like to discuss? Perhaps we should ban cake from the military, because any soldier who eats cake will instantly get fat and become an ineffective fighter, and dammit, that would be a waste of your tax dollars.

[KC Dan]

Speaking of the Commander in Chief, does anyone know if this ban would affect the President? I would assume so, if he's still smoking.Real Leadership = Do as I say not as I do.....

[Earthling]

Perhaps we should ban cake from the military, because any soldier who eats cake will instantly get fat and become an ineffective fighter, and dammit, that would be a waste of your tax dollars.

ROFL ROFL

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Wow. I think you were probably better off sticking with short, stupid responses.

I'm not really sure what to take away from this chaotic shotgun blast of idiocy, other than (a) you seem to fancy yourself as some sort of elitist intellectual, yet you write and spell like a high school dropout; (b) you seem to equate smoking with gay sex; and (c) you don't seem to have much respect for people in the military (which is okay, since I'm sure they wouldn't have much respect for you, either). Beyond that, you just seem to be same indoctrinated sheep I pegged you for earlier.

Is there anything else you'd like to discuss? Perhaps we should ban cake from the military, because any soldier who eats cake will instantly get fat and become an ineffective fighter, and dammit, that would be a waste of your tax dollars.

ROFL On a roll.

[HonestChieffan]

The mango smoothy line is right there at the top. Good un Fraz.

[JohnnyV13]

Wow. I think you were probably better off sticking with short, stupid responses.

I'm not really sure what to take away from this chaotic shotgun blast of idiocy, other than (a) you seem to fancy yourself as some sort of elitist intellectual, yet you write and spell like a high school dropout; (b) you seem to equate smoking with gay sex; and (c) you don't seem to have much respect for people in the military (which is okay, since I'm sure they wouldn't have much respect for you, either). Beyond that, you just seem to be same indoctrinated sheep I pegged you for earlier.

Is there anything else you'd like to discuss? Perhaps we should ban cake from the military, because any soldier who eats cake will instantly get fat and become an ineffective fighter, and dammit, that would be a waste of your tax dollars.

!) I have great respect for the military. My contempt is soley directed at you.

2) My first cousin is an ex philippine army general and former philippine cabinet member. Another cousin was a full colonel and was KIA in mindano. An American cousin retired as a marine corps major. He commanded a unit that painted Iraqi targets for the air force attacks prior to Desert Storm. They allowed their careers to speak for themselves. Hence, I pegged you as a poser who deserves nothing but ridicule.

3) No, there isn't anything else to discuss. You simply want to smoke and want to justify your behavior. Objective evidence means nothing to you. Carry on.

[frazod]

I haven't had a cigarette in nearly four years.

Luckily, though, quitting didn't turn me into fucking HealthNazi assclown.

Have a nice day.

[JohnnyV13]

I haven't had a cigarette in nearly four years.

Luckily, though, quitting didn't turn me into ****ing HealthNazi assclown.

Have a nice day.


My knowledge of cigarette smoking comes, not from indoctrination, but 30 years of empirical observation.

My father is an asthmatic who is serverly allergic to cigarette smoke. Residue can cause asthma attack long after the smoke has "dissapated". Back when smokers indiscrimnately filled the world with smoke, I watched my dad come home day after day, hacking his lungs out.

Over time, things got better, because medications improved and the law created more smoke-free environments.

To put numbers to the problem: 5,000 people die every year from acute asthma attack. The two most common triggers for asthma attack are 1) cold weather (which we can't do anything about and 2) cigarette smoke.

Recently, my dad checked into a non smoking hotel room. Some idiot had smoked in the non smoking room, and the hotel covered it up with an air freshener. My dad had an acute attack that he couldn't stop with his nebulizer. He ended up going to the hospital.

The fact is, smokers who complain they are persecuted simply don't want to take responsibility for their actions. They want everyone else to subsidize their health problems and they pretend that their pollution doesn't hurt anyone else.

Basically, its like saying "I really like bashing cripples in the head. Since I enjoy it, I have the right to do whatever I please. And, if a few of those cripples die because I like to bash their heads in, well...they were wimps anyway."

Exactly who is the nazi?

[KILLER_CLOWN]

My knowledge of cigarette smoking comes, not from indoctrination, but 30 years of empirical observation.

My father is an asthmatic who is serverly allergic to cigarette smoke. Residue can cause asthma attack long after the smoke has "dissapated". Back when smokers indiscrimnately filled the world with smoke, I watched my dad come home day after day, hacking his lungs out.

Over time, things got better, because medications improved and the law created more smoke-free environments.

To put numbers to the problem: 5,000 people die every year from acute asthma attack. The two most common triggers for asthma attack are 1) cold weather (which we can't do anything about and 2) cigarette smoke.

Recently, my dad checked into a non smoking hotel room. Some idiot had smoked in the non smoking room, and the hotel covered it up with an air freshener. My dad had an acute attack that he couldn't stop with his nebulizer. He ended up going to the hospital.

The fact is, smokers who complain they are persecuted simply don't want to take responsibility for their actions. They want everyone else to subsidize their health problems and they pretend that their pollution doesn't hurt anyone else.

Basically, its like saying "I really like bashing cripples in the head. Since I enjoy it, I have the right to do whatever I please. And, if a few of those cripples die because I like to bash their heads in, well...they were wimps anyway."

Exactly who is the nazi?

I haven't read this much propaganda in a long time.

[J Diddy]

!) I have great respect for the military. My contempt is soley directed at you.

2) My first cousin is an ex philippine army general and former philippine cabinet member. Another cousin was a full colonel and was KIA in mindano. An American cousin retired as a marine corps major. He commanded a unit that painted Iraqi targets for the air force attacks prior to Desert Storm. They allowed their careers to speak for themselves. Hence, I pegged you as a poser who deserves nothing but ridicule.

3) No, there isn't anything else to discuss. You simply want to smoke and want to justify your behavior. Objective evidence means nothing to you. Carry on.

I'm curious your relatives opinions on this. To me spouting their achievements doesn't add an validity to your claim.

IMO, if someone wants to smoke they should be able to. Especially, people who get shot at defending our freedom.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I haven't read this much propaganda in a long time.

I'm curious your relatives opinions on this. To me spouting their achievements doesn't add an validity to your claim.

IMO, if someone wants to smoke they should be able to. Especially, people who get shot at defending our freedom.

Come on guys. Come on now. You obviously haven't been informed that Johnny knows what's best for everyone.

[J Diddy]

Come on guys. Come on now. You obviously haven't been informed that Johnny knows what's best for everyone.

Obviously not.

[frazod]

My knowledge of cigarette smoking comes, not from indoctrination, but 30 years of empirical observation.

My father is an asthmatic who is serverly allergic to cigarette smoke. Residue can cause asthma attack long after the smoke has "dissapated". Back when smokers indiscrimnately filled the world with smoke, I watched my dad come home day after day, hacking his lungs out.

Over time, things got better, because medications improved and the law created more smoke-free environments.

To put numbers to the problem: 5,000 people die every year from acute asthma attack. The two most common triggers for asthma attack are 1) cold weather (which we can't do anything about and 2) cigarette smoke.

Recently, my dad checked into a non smoking hotel room. Some idiot had smoked in the non smoking room, and the hotel covered it up with an air freshener. My dad had an acute attack that he couldn't stop with his nebulizer. He ended up going to the hospital.

The fact is, smokers who complain they are persecuted simply don't want to take responsibility for their actions. They want everyone else to subsidize their health problems and they pretend that their pollution doesn't hurt anyone else.

Basically, its like saying "I really like bashing cripples in the head. Since I enjoy it, I have the right to do whatever I please. And, if a few of those cripples die because I like to bash their heads in, well...they were wimps anyway."

Exactly who is the nazi?

That would be you, Adolph. Trying to bend all of society to your personal preference based on the health issues of tiny minority of people.

5,000 died out of 300,000,000 Americans, or was that a worldwide figure, making it 5,000 out of 7,000,000,000 people in general? I guess we're doomed as a species if we don't get this thing under control, right? :rolleyes:

It's too bad that your dad has asthma, but what the hell does that have to do with me or anybody else here? His health issues aren't our fault. Perhaps you should go take up your problems with God.

And one other thing (I wasn't going to bump this again, but I might as well mention it now) - what does being related to people who were in the military have to do with anything? Who gives a shit? "I know people in the military, so you suck!" How dumb are you? Robin Givens was married to Mike Tyson once. It didn't make her (a) a boxer, or (b) a man.

And there are several people posting on this thread who obviously agree with me. Why don't you hump their legs for a while?

[RippedmyFlesh]

New, incendiary discussion topic:

Cigarettes & suicide... what's the difference? GO!

Kurt Vonnegut said smoking was suicide by mail.

[J Diddy]

Kurt Vonnegut said smoking was suicide by mail.

The marlboro man said "don't be a pussy"

[J Diddy]

That would be you, Adolph. Trying to bend all of society to your personal preference based on the health issues of tiny minority of people.

5,000 died out of 300,000,000 Americans, or was that a worldwide figure, making it 5,000 out of 7,000,000,000 people in general? I guess we're doomed as a species if we don't get this thing under control, right? :rolleyes:

It's too bad that your dad has asthma, but what the hell does that have to do with me or anybody else here? His health issues aren't our fault. Perhaps you should go take up your problems with God.

And one other thing (I wasn't going to bump this again, but I might as well mention it now) - what does being related to people who were in the military have to do with anything? Who gives a shit? "I know people in the military, so you suck!" How dumb are you? Robin Givens was married to Mike Tyson once. It didn't make her (a) a boxer, or (b) a man.

And there are several people posting on this thread who obviously agree with me. Why don't you hump their legs for a while?

I was once married to a bitch. She bitched all the team and it caused my blood pressure to rise. They should outlaw bitching.

[frazod]

I was once married to a bitch. She bitched all the team and it caused my blood pressure to rise. They should outlaw bitching.

I went prematurely bald at an early age. I guess I should have sued to make everybody else shave the tops of their heads so I wouldn't feel different. :D

[J Diddy]

I went prematurely bald at an early age. I guess I should have sued to make everybody else shave the tops of their heads so I wouldn't feel different. :D

That's the american way, everybody gets a trophy.

[frazod]

That's the american way, everybody gets a trophy.

Apparently it is now.

All you have to do is cry loud enough.

[J Diddy]

Apparently it is now.

All you have to do is cry loud enough.

I say being bald is the trophy for not having to spend money on hair care products. If my wife went bald I'd save about 4 grand a year.

[frazod]

I say being bald is the trophy for not having to spend money on hair care products. If my wife went bald I'd save about 4 grand a year.

I do save a fortune on haircuts now that I shave my head.

But I certainly wouldn't want my wife to be bald. Her hair's not long enough for my liking as it as.

[J Diddy]

I do save a fortune on haircuts now that I shave my head.

But I certainly wouldn't want my wife to be bald. Her hair's not long enough for my liking as it as.



How much can a wig cost?

[frazod]

In honor of this thread, I have selected a new avatar.

:Pimp:

[go bowe]

bingo...I think I'll write my congressmanif i had a cyber fly swatter, i'd get rid of that damned bug crawling around on the screen every time you post...

otoh, how are you doing these days?

still enjoying the work as a dep dawg?

[JohnnyV13]

That would be you, Adolph. Trying to bend all of society to your personal preference based on the health issues of tiny minority of people.

5,000 died out of 300,000,000 Americans, or was that a worldwide figure, making it 5,000 out of 7,000,000,000 people in general? I guess we're doomed as a species if we don't get this thing under control, right? :rolleyes:

It's too bad that your dad has asthma, but what the hell does that have to do with me or anybody else here? His health issues aren't our fault. Perhaps you should go take up your problems with God.

And one other thing (I wasn't going to bump this again, but I might as well mention it now) - what does being related to people who were in the military have to do with anything? Who gives a shit? "I know people in the military, so you suck!" How dumb are you? Robin Givens was married to Mike Tyson once. It didn't make her (a) a boxer, or (b) a man.

And there are several people posting on this thread who obviously agree with me. Why don't you hump their legs for a while?


1) Yeah, it is too bad my dad has asthma. THe point is that smokers who whine about being persecuted because they can't smoke in public or because people want them to pay for the costs of their own behavior aren't victims. They need to act in a responsible manner and they need to pay their own way. If an employer doesn't want to hire them because they smoke, too bad. None of this, "I'm cold, I'm tired, I'm serving my country, BS". If the military decides not smoking is a job requirement, deal with it. Or get another job. In either case, stop whining.

2) The point of mentioning my relatives is that I know many accomplished soldiers. None of them have to parade around and say "I served! I served! I served! Kiss my ass." Why you behave that way, I won't bother to speculate. Of course, their accomplishments have nothing to do with me.

3) I have a great idea. Let's issue public smoking licenses at no cost to anyone that wants them. Except, for every asthmatic that dies from exposure to smoke in a public place, we will randomly select one public smoking licencee and summarily execute them. I'm sure no one would complain. It would only be a miniscule number of people per year.

[J Diddy]

1) Yeah, it is too bad my dad has asthma. THe point is that smokers who whine about being persecuted because they can't smoke in public or because people want them to pay for the costs of their own behavior aren't victims. They need to act in a responsible manner and they need to pay their own way. If an employer doesn't want to hire them because they smoke, too bad.

2) The point of mentioning my relatives is that I know many accomplished soldiers. None of them have to parade around and say "I served! I served! I served! Kiss my ass." Why you behave that way, I won't bother to speculate. Of course, their accomplishments have nothing to do with me.

3) I have a great idea. Let's issue public smoking licenses at no cost to anyone that wants them. Except, for every asthmatic that dies from exposure to smoke in a public place, we will randomly select one public smoking licencee and summarily execute them. I'm sure no one would complain. It would only be a miniscule number of people per year.

1) It is too bad your dad has asthma. I hope good health follows him wherever he may go. I smoke. Nor do I ask for anyone to pay my way, as a matter of fact when you consider the taxes I pay on a pack of cigarettes I feel I've paid enough to cover what ailments may strike me.

2) Glad you cleared that up, it was a tad bid confusing to me. I have 3 brothers in the military does it mean my choice to smoke is any more right or wrong? Anyway, like I said glad you cleared that up.

3) So the point of this is you just hate smokers right?

[JohnnyV13]

.

3) So the point of this is you just hate smokers right?


Not really. I get mad when smokers act persecuted. I hate it when smokers act as if studies that show second hand smoke causes harm to others are made up fictions.

Carcinogenic affects from second hand smoke seem intuitively obvious, but have some room for doubt. But, consequences for a tobacco-sensitive asthmatic are well established. Yet, no one ever mentions them.

Of course, watching my dad upsets me. I have to admit, it's worse because I have similar problems which, while negligible at the moment, make me wonder if I am looking at my own future.

But hey, i'm just a wimp and a latte-drinking indoctrinated sheep. What do I know?

[RippedmyFlesh]

I went prematurely bald at an early age. I guess I should have sued to make everybody else shave the tops of their heads so I wouldn't feel different. :D
I will join you in a class action lawsuit.
The nerve of them growing hair right in front of us.

[frazod]

Good ole Johnny. Said he was done yesterday, but I guess he just can't quit me.

1) Yeah, it is too bad my dad has asthma. THe point is that smokers who whine about being persecuted because they can't smoke in public or because people want them to pay for the costs of their own behavior aren't victims. They need to act in a responsible manner and they need to pay their own way. If an employer doesn't want to hire them because they smoke, too bad. None of this, "I'm cold, I'm tired, I'm serving my country, BS". If the military decides not smoking is a job requirement, deal with it. Or get another job. In either case, stop whining.

The only person whining here is YOU. The only person here attempting to imposing their beliefs on people they'll never meet in places they'll never go is you. Nice to see you continuing to demonstrate that utter contempt for our service members, though. What a pure piece of shit you are.

2) The point of mentioning my relatives is that I know many accomplished soldiers. None of them have to parade around and say "I served! I served! I served! Kiss my ass." Why you behave that way, I won't bother to speculate. Of course, their accomplishments have nothing to do with me.

The point wasn't that I served, but that you didn't. Again, I'm not the fascist pussy trying to tell some kid halfway around the world that he can't have a smoke after a tough day in the field because daddy used to cough.

3) I have a great idea. Let's issue public smoking licenses at no cost to anyone that wants them. Except, for every asthmatic that dies from exposure to smoke in a public place, we will randomly select one public smoking licencee and summarily execute them. I'm sure no one would complain. It would only be a miniscule number of people per year.

Well, since I don't smoke, this wouldn't effect me, so knock yourself out. Be aware, though, that if you plan to shoot them, guns smoke when fired, and since you're so scared of smoke, you might want to have somebody else pull the trigger. The sound of the shot would probably make you piss yourself anyway.

[J Diddy]

Good ole Johnny. Said he was done yesterday, but I guess he just can't quit me.



The only person whining here is YOU. The only person here attempting to imposing their beliefs on people they'll never meet in places they'll never go is you. Nice to see you continuing to demonstrate that utter contempt for our service members, though. What a pure piece of shit you are.



The point wasn't that I served, but that you didn't. Again, I'm not the fascist pussy trying to tell some kid halfway around the world that he can't have a smoke after a tough day in the field because daddy used to cough.



Well, since I don't smoke, this wouldn't effect me, so knock yourself out. Be aware, though, that if you plan to shoot them, guns smoke when fired, and since you're so scared of smoke, you might want to have somebody else pull the trigger. The sound of the shot would probably make you piss yourself anyway.

I'm one of those people who smoke and I'd prefer not to got shot.


Thanks.

[frazod]

I'm one of those people who smoke and I'd prefer not to got shot.


Thanks.

Apparently no one would complain. :evil:

[listopencil]

blah blah blah...




Christ in Heaven you're a ****ing moron.

[JohnnyV13]

Again, I'm not the fascist pussy trying to tell some kid halfway around the world that he can't have a smoke after a tough day in the field because daddy used to cough.

I never brought up my dad until you characterized restritcions on public smoking as persecution of smokers. To paraphrase: "you're just a latte drinking, smoothee slurping indoctrinated sheep that's scared he might catch a whiff of smoke." and caling me a "health nazi". Let's not let facts get in the way of a good insult.


The only person here attempting to imposing their beliefs on people they'll never meet in places they'll never go is you. Nice to see you continuing to demonstrate that utter contempt for our service members, though. What a pure piece of shit you are.


My initial comments in this thread were entirely directed to the factual basis (1) performance impacts and 2) health costs) of this issue. There are quite a few factual arguments that you could have made to support your position, including:

1) Getting enough qualified recruits is bad enough now. Banning smoking would make the problem worse.

2) Performance issues are overblown. Soldiers are constantly evaluated with respect to performance. If they can make these standards, extraneous behavior isn't important.

3) Studies which show increased health costs for smokers are questionable. Other studies have shown that smokers actually cost less since they die earlier.

Convince me that banning smoking would cause more problems than benefits, and I will agree that doing it is stupid.

Instead, you chose to embed your case with personal attacks: 1) anyone who disagrees with me is a fascist and 2) a pussy. Consequently, I think you were more concerned with establishing you had a bigger internet dick, rather than any altruistic concern for soldiers in the field. In restrospect, I was foolish to dispute this point.

YOU ARE THE BIGGER INTERNET DICK.

Happy?

Be aware, guns smoke when fired, and since you're so scared of smoke, you might want to have somebody else pull the trigger. The sound of the shot would probably make you piss yourself anyway.

Oh. Knock yourself out. Make as much gunsmoke as you please. Just make sure to put the gun barrel in your mouth before you pull the trigger. That way, the sound of a gunshot would signify the dawn of a better world to me from that day forward.

[stevieray]

shortage of smokeless air...film at 11

[frazod]

I just got back from an outdoor concert. It was nice - despite all the no smoking signs, people all around me were smoking cigarettes and pot, and, in a throwback to a much better time in this country, NO ONE CARED. No one bitched, no one cried, I didn't see any butthurt little pussies running to the security people about all those evil smokers - instead people smoked, the smoke blew away in the wind, and that was that.

It was a very pleasant evening.

Of course, I'm sure some of our daintier members would not have approved.

[J Diddy]

Apparently no one would complain. :evil:

I think my wife would, maybe.

[frazod]

I think my wife would, maybe.

That's not what she told me..... :)

[J Diddy]

That's not what she told me..... :)


Oh dude, I totally understand. If you ever meet me you will want to shoot me as well.

[stevieray]

bic lighters linked to carpal tunnel syndrome..film at 11

[J Diddy]

bic lighters linked to carpel tunnel syndrome..film at 11

Whoa---what about zippos?

[stevieray]

zippo lighters to be child proofed...film at 11

[frazod]

Oh dude, I totally understand. If you ever meet me you will want to shoot me as well.

Well, I think you're safe. Despite the fact that it's been established that you smoke and I don't, NancyV clearly wants me shot, not you.

I just have a way with people, I guess. :D

[J Diddy]

zippo lighters to be child proofed...film at 11

J diddy quitting smoking because of fear of carpal tunnel, film at 11.

:D

[JohnnyV13]

Well, I think you're safe. Despite the fact that it's been established that you smoke and I don't, NancyV clearly wants me shot, not you.

I just have a way with people, I guess. :D


I wouldn't have anyone take the trouble of shooting you. If you offed yourself, I wouldn't have any objections.

The fact is, I'm happy with the way things are with respect to the smoking issue. I'll let you guys cry and complain. It's what powerless people do when they lose.

[J Diddy]

I wouldn't have anyone take the trouble of shooting you. If you offed yourself, I wouldn't have any objections.

The fact is, I'm happy with the way things are with respect to the smoking issue. I'll let you guys cry and complain. It's what powerless people do when they lose.

:rolleyes:

I doubt I could muster up the strength to cry and complain.

[kstater]

Sweet, my first smoking thread since I quit. Can someone point me in the direction to the ladder to get up to the high horse?

[frazod]

I wouldn't have anyone take the trouble of shooting you. If you offed yourself, I wouldn't have any objections.

The fact is, I'm happy with the way things are with respect to the smoking issue. I'll let you guys cry and complain. It's what powerless people do when they lose.

Well, every time you smell smoke and cry and wet yourself over it, I guess that's a victory for me. You go girl!

[J Diddy]

Sweet, my first smoking thread since I quit. Can someone point me in the direction to the ladder to get up to the high horse?


Congratulations on quitting.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I wouldn't have anyone take the trouble of shooting you. If you offed yourself, I wouldn't have any objections.

The fact is, I'm happy with the way things are with respect to the smoking issue. I'll let you guys cry and complain. It's what powerless people do when they lose.

First hand experience?

[frazod]

I guess NancyV has got all of the rest of you on ignore.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I guess NancyV has got all of the rest of you on ignore.

I imagine I'd be pretty upset with people I projected my father's illness onto as well. After all, in her eyes, it's all our fault.

[frazod]

I imagine I'd be pretty upset with people I projected my father's illness onto as well. After all, in her eyes, it's all our fault.

I have the power to give somebody asthma? Fuck. Who knew?

[crispystl420]

ROFL

LMAO PWNED